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Rating: 2.9
Category: Funny
Date: 02/13/12 11:10 AM

70 Responses to If God Was A Fire Fighter…

  1. Profile photo of Dead_mind
    Dead_mind Male 18-29
    303 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:12 am
    Link: If God Was A Fire Fighter... - Ah well... Firefighters work in mysterious ways.
  2. Profile photo of SheaSF
    SheaSF Male 40-49
    98 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:16 am
    That pretty much sums it up.
  3. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:31 am
    Seriously?

    Weaksauce.
  4. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:33 am
    Even though Aburnjunky doesn`t get it. the rest of us do and it`s very accurate and funny!
  5. Profile photo of RevWubby
    RevWubby Male 30-39
    64 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:33 am
    I`m going to assume that every fire is surrounded by firefighters, just in case they exist so I don`t burn. That way I don`t have to worry about putting them out. Firefighters will save me. If my neighbors die from my careless gasoline bonfire, it` was their own fault.

    Oh, and the effectiveness of smoke alarms are just your theory. If you use them, firefighters will let you burn, since it shows doubt that they will save you.
  6. Profile photo of Stonardsftw
    Stonardsftw Male 18-29
    321 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:42 am
    Despite the poor animation and voice acting, this is pretty drating accurate.
  7. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36870 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:49 am

    Time for some Jesus jokes?
  8. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 12:05 pm
    This is weak....
  9. Profile photo of UDUMASS
    UDUMASS Male 30-39
    60 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 12:07 pm
    This video is retarded. Just like the rest of IAB.
  10. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 12:43 pm
    Weaksauce.
    If it is weaksauce, then why don`t you debunk it?
  11. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 12:48 pm
    Funny :P
  12. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7476 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 12:53 pm
    How do they know if he believes they are there?
  13. Profile photo of RecycleElf
    RecycleElf Male 18-29
    3621 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 1:10 pm
    this had potential but itt was badly performed. would love a remake
  14. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    Cobrakiller wins the thread.

    Debunk it?

    The tides go out. They come in, you can`t explain that.
  15. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 2:12 pm
    Knowledge of god is not inherent.
    This means we must be taught about god`s existence.
    When first being taught, the person teaching you is making a claim.
    They offer no verifiable proof for this claim.
    Without any verifiable proof, the default option must be a suspension of belief until further evidence is provided.

    Just my thoughts on god.
  16. Profile photo of lonewill
    lonewill Male 30-39
    26 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 2:19 pm
    I`m surprised this came from Darkmatter2525. His videos usually suck. This, however, was pretty ingenious.
  17. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm
    Actually, real firefighters are motivated by more than just money. God put us here to help one another, this video is is just total atheist crap.
  18. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 3:35 pm
    debunk...what? the analogy between God and a firefighter? Umm...wow, let`s see.

    (a) the guy burning WAS calling for help, believing that people would help him
    (b) the firefighters have no way of knowing the burning guys` beliefs
    (c) it`s not God`s job to help us, it`s his job to love us and forgive us. But it`s the firefighter`s job to put out fires
    (d) it`s also not God`s job to "prove" his existence to every doubting Thomas who looks up at the sky and says, "Dance rummy! I COMMAND YOU! If you do not do what I say, when I say it, you do not exist!"

    I could go on and on and on, but there are just too many flaws to attack.
  19. Profile photo of Lillim
    Lillim Female 30-39
    269 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 4:04 pm
    I`m sure that the message in this video was hilarious and mind-altering, etc. But a) bad animation. Not even good bad animation, just bad. B) Bad voices, sounding like a bro trying to sound like a nerd trying to sound like a bro. C) "If" statements should rightfully use "were," not "was."

    Got 30 seconds in, and decided time would be better spent doing something constructive, like watching paint dry.
  20. Profile photo of zombunny
    zombunny Female 18-29
    2525 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 4:08 pm
    As soon as I saw that the video was by that Darkmatter guy, I turned it off. That guy is annoying.
  21. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 6:17 pm
    The obvious message escapes the resident religists, I see. Faith in God defies all common sense, but that`s why it`s called faith, I guess.
  22. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 6:39 pm
    zzZZzzZZzzZZzzZzz
  23. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14657 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 6:56 pm
    God is indistinguishable from no god. Ergo God is functionally the same as no god.
  24. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 7:21 pm
    "it`s his job to love us and forgive us."

    "it`s also not God`s job to "prove" his existence to every doubting Thomas"

    If a god truly "loved" us, it`d make sure everyone knew 100% for sure that it existed, because the consequence is people not finding proof and having no reason to believe it exists and spending eternity in hell. If you were a god who supposedly loved everyone, wouldn`t you want to do whatever you could to make sure everyone could go to heaven? I`m sure, if a god was real, that that god would realize how there`s no actual proof besides word of mouth and thus no reason to believe in its existence. It`d have to be a pretty malicious god to damn everyone to hell for its own lack of showing proof.
  25. Profile photo of darkmagic14n
    darkmagic14n Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm
    this is why you don`t let 12 year olds use your computer
  26. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 9:18 pm
    (con`t)

    (3) It`s a common misconception that anyone who does not believe in God goes to hell. There are two other ways to enter heaven. (a) to follow the Natural Law, or (b) for Jesus to review your life at the end of days and allow you entry.

    Of course, this is all only true if you follow the Word as it is written in the Old and New Testaments in the original Hebrew, and if you truly embrace the Love/Forgiveness over Law teachings within the New Testament. If you do not believe in the the Word b/c you`re a skeptic or an atheist, or if you discount some of the forgiving, generous words in the Bible b/c of what you`ve been taught by a well-meaning pastor who evangelizes using fire/brimstone/fear, then you believe that what I`ve said is a complete fabrication. *shrug* c`est la vie
  27. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 9:20 pm
    @LillianDulci, a few points:

    (1) You argue that if God truly loved us, then he would do (a), (b), and (c). Which means YOU know how God thinks, and YOU know what actions constitute love and what actions do not constitute love. I don`t know what love means. Other Christians don`t know what love means. YOU know what love means. =/

    (2) God did prove his existence several times...burning bush, immaculate conception, miracles performed simply when his name was called. What happened? Empires attacked and destroyed his believers, and people of power within the Church stoned, jailed, lynched, lied, and crucified his teachers and his miracle workers.

    I would posit that if God did the same thing today, the same thing would happen. I would posit that it`s much more effective to pass on teachings through teaching your followers to live life lovingly and generously, with tolerance and acceptance and forgiveness, then it would be to perform miracles like some circus clow
  28. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 10:05 pm
    @bliznik: I like how your "proof" consisted of things that were completely unverifiable.

    I don`t really blame you for believing. Who wouldn`t want to live forever in a place devoid of imperfection? Hell, you could justify the existence of religion based solely off of the fact that it does bring people together. And community is almost always a good thing. It`s when people speak of god with absolute certainty that worries me. They`re completely irrational and delusional- a dangerous combination. It`s impossible to "know" he exists, just as it`s impossible to "know" he does not exist. Those that acknowledge that he may not exist, but have faith that does are fine by me. They`re just irrational people. I deal with irrational people every day.
  29. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 10:29 pm
    Actually, real firefighters are motivated by more than just money. God put us here to help one another, this video is is just total atheist crap.
    Interesting you say that Crakrjak, since only while ago (I can provide the link) you stated that, and I quote: "What is there to motivate an atheist doctor or nurse, to give the best care, besides money ? Answer, Nothing."

    Interesting you say that, Crakrjak. So what, are firefighters doing the LORD`s work and doctors and nurses are just greedy money-grubbing atheists? Or is it only the atheist physicians? What about atheist firefighters? I can`t tell anymore.

    Seriously dude, you twist yourself in so many knots you`re like a hagfish. Including the excreted, entire-tank-befouling slime.
  30. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 10:43 pm
    @davymid: hagfish are cool, though.

    "You want to eat me?"

    *endless slime*

    "WHAT ABOUT NOW??? HUH???? DIDN`T THINK SO, JERK-FACE."
  31. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 13, 2012 at 11:27 pm
    davymid: I was trying to make a point and you completely missed it. I was trying to say that the motivation was more than just the money and I wanted YOU to come to that realization, on your own, that that motivation is inspired by more than just being a humanist.

    As far as comparing me to a hagfish, really ? Sometimes I may take a contrary opinion to get people to realize something they wouldn`t ordinarily admit.

    Matthew 22:36-40, Mark 12:28-31, Luke 10:25-28

    It`s in 3 gospels and even people that aren`t religious follow it, I was hoping you would drop your animosity toward Christianity, but I failed in that endeavor.

  32. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 12:33 am
    @sexytexan876: I was referring to events that occurred (according to some accounts) thousands of years ago. It`s difficult to verify _any_ events that occurred thousands of years ago.

    But that`s kind of my point. Let`s say God exists AND let`s say that LillianDulci and you have your druthers and God`s love for people causes him to provide proof. This means, every time ANY person doubts God`s existence, he/she/it comes down and performs a parlor trick. Forever. (since anyone born later will only have anecdotal evidence that the miracle occurred, not actual hard proof) Is that constructive? =/

    Interesting for you to say that you`re "fine" with people admit that they have a belief system that can`t be objectively verified. But then you insult them with words like "irrational and delusional" insulting their very capacity to think. IMO, true tolerance should start with a level of respect, and not start with a level of disrespect.
  33. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 2:43 am
    @bliznik: Your god is omnipotent yes? All seeing, all knowing, all powerful? Then doing a "parlor trick" as you put it would be nothing to him. He could do it for everyone. Or better yet, he could just make it so if anyone were ever to be born, they would already know of him. And something being hard to verify means nothing to my line of thinking. Am I supposed to just say, "Oh well if it`s difficult to verify it, then I`ll just believe you when you say it."?

    And I didn`t know the truth was insulting. If you don`t think my description of theists is correct, I`d like for you to refer back to my first post. If you read that, and you agree with every point except for my last one... then you`re being irrational.

    Apply my line of thinking to literally any other religion, and I`m sure you would find it a completely logical train of thought. But the second the spotlight is on your god, you no longer require proof. THAT is being irrational.
  34. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 4:15 am
    If you believe in God, and are wrong, at least you lived a good life. If you do not believe, and are wrong, then you`re screwed.

    Seems like the choice is obvious.
  35. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 5:31 am
    @auburnjunky: Ah, Pascal`s Wager.

    I could see that being a safe bet if there was just one religion. Sadly there are more religions than I care to count. Each one with it`s own doctrine. Some have different Gods even. So the old, "What have you got to lose?" would fall on ALL religions. Better go study up on your Torah, Qu`ran, Bible, Homeric Hymns, Havamal, Great Hymn to the Aten, The Akilathirattu Ammanai, Kitab-i-Aqdas, Tengyur, Sutras, The Sermons of Revered Teacher Euiam, Rasa`il al-Hikmah, The Book of the Dead, Hermetica, The Satanic Bible, Book of the Zodiac, The Evangelion, The Urantia Book, Orphic Poems, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Dianetics, The Kojiki, Guru Granth Sahib, The Barton Cylinder, Tao Te Ching, The Mikagura-uta, The Holy Books of Thelema, Divine Principle, Book of Shadows, the Nerconomicon, Yazidi Book of Revelation, and The Yasna, to name a few.

    Nothing like hedging your bets, eh?
  36. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 6:57 am
    If you believe in God, and are wrong, at least you lived a good life. If you do not believe, and are wrong, then you`re screwed.
    Too bad hell is a self contradicting concept, as the video points out.

    ... and that you`d have a lowsy life avoiding all possible hells, none of which exist.
  37. Profile photo of Thonious
    Thonious Male 40-49
    987 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 7:02 am
    As an advertisement for "Dark Matter," this is a colossal fail.
  38. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2514 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 7:56 am
    Guess what has two thumbs and isn`t going to subscribe to darkmatter?
  39. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 7:59 am
    @sexytexan876, a lot of condescending assumptions.

    First, assumption of omnipotence. No, I don`t believe that`s the case. There`s _very_ little evidence in the Bible that God is omnipotent. God speaks to his followers, persuades, punishes, cajoles, influences, but never FORCES or performs MIND CONTROL. Has lots of powers? Certainly. Have the power to do ANYTHING? Where`s the evidence of that?

    Second, being hard to verify means an admission that, when I cite such old evidence, that evidence cannot meet YOUR standards, not that you need to adopt my beliefs. I`m not trying to evangelize to you. I`m not trying to tell you to believe in the Christian God. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

    Third, I actually do agree with EVERY line of your first post. Healthy skepticism is essential to strengthen any belief system. Any other approach creates an army of automatons. Again, you`re putting words in my mouth and you`re creating straw-man arguments to attack.
  40. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 8:29 am
    @bliznik:

    I`m having trouble grasping something here. Perhaps you can help? You agree with every line of my first post. Yet based off of the context of your posts, you believe in a god.

    Maybe I`m reading too much into this, but did you just tell me, "I agree that belief in god should be suspended until verifiable proof of his existence is provided. I believe in god."? That doesn`t sound irrational/ illogical to you?
  41. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 8:34 am
    auburnjunky:
    "If you believe in God, and are wrong, at least you lived a good life. If you do not believe, and are wrong, then you`re screwed.

    Seems like the choice is obvious."
    ------

    What makes you think you believe in the "correct" God? If the one you choose to believe in, turns out to be the wrong one, then your whole argument is moot.
  42. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 8:59 am
    auburnjunky:

    So by default if you believe in god you have lived a good life? I don`t see where the belief in god means you lived a good life, heck some people have even justified bad behavior as doing `god`s work` or rationalized it by saying they can as forgiveness later.

    Like the saying goes,

    Good people do good things,
    Bod people do bad things but it takes religion for good people to do bad things.
  43. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 9:11 am
    bliznik:

    After reading your posts you have a very different idea of god than I have heard preached in the many Christian churches I have attended, your version is much more likable than others and a small bit more reasonable. My question is there are thousands of denominations just in Christianity, and in every denomination there are differing opinions on the nature of god and when a person does not agree with a specific church they go in search of another one that they do agree with, how is that different from them just making it up themselves?
  44. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 10:57 am
    Otto: I`ve yet to hear of a Christian church that didn`t believe that John 3:16 is the main tenet.

    If you believe in Christ as your savior you will go to heaven. It`s simple and no other religion has such a guarantee.
  45. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 11:53 am
    If you believe in Christ as your savior you will go to heaven.

    I could be wrong but I think Mormonism is slightly more complicated than that.
  46. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    CrakrJak:

    I know that seems like a wonderful passage but the idea that a god would punish "his children" eternally for a finite thought crime is immoral. Not to mention there are plenty of Christian churches that teach believing is not enough to go to heaven, works and asking forgivness are also necessary. Your version may be simple but they`re not all that way. It is also a neat way to keep followers in line and to disparage those who don`t believe Jesus is god any more than you or I are.
  47. Profile photo of Zymotical
    Zymotical Male 18-29
    198 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    Once you stop demanding verifiable proof, or "just have faith", you lose the ability to have further reasonable discourse on the subject. No argument will sway you if you believe in something with absolutely no supporting evidence. However if you`re simply willing to admit that you could be wrong then we can have an honest discussion on theology.

    Anyone that is fearful of going to hell/purgatory/limbo is making decisions under extreme duress and can not be expected to make rational choices. It is akin to putting a gun to someones head except instead of a few seconds and then nothing you suffer until the end of existence.

    The more religion I see on the internet the more it just seems like bad trolls trying to use irrationality to anger rational humanists.
  48. Profile photo of Zymotical
    Zymotical Male 18-29
    198 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 3:35 pm
    @bliznik

    Matthew 19:26
    "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

    Revelation 19:6
    "And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God OMNIPOTENT reigneth." (emphasis added)

    These may not be tenets you believe, but then you are just arguing for your own personal version of god, which couldn`t possibly be the same as the Christian god, as that version is believed to be omnipotent cause it said it was omnipotent. Denying that is blasphemous, a sin worse than murder in god`s eyes.
  49. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 4:19 pm
    @Otto67 - You`re right in that`s a very real problem with people of all religions (not just Christians), and it`s something I struggle with as well. It`s not "purely" making up the religion yourself, b/c you`re using the Bible and the words within it as a basis for your beliefs. But the question, "is my interpretation the correct interpretation" should be something any true truth-seeker should always be asking, whether you study absolute truths (science, math, physics) or non-absolute truths (beliefs, psychology, religion). All I can say is that, for myself, I try to ensure all of my interpretations are consistent and non-contradictory when adopting a world viewpoint that I believe is "true." Any interpretation I adopt needs to be consistent not only with other parts of the Bible, but my own world experiences as well.
  50. Profile photo of bliznik
    bliznik Male 30-39
    868 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 4:21 pm
    @Zymotical, not sure where you get the impression that (a) blasphemy is worse than murder or that (b) a non-literal interpretation of the translated text is blasphemous. Especially since, like, half of the lessons from the Bible are posited as symbolic parables and poetry.

    Your first quote is from Jesus, who, in the exact same passage, uses hyperbolic imagery to describe a camel going through the eye of a needle. I don`t think he meant to actually pull a camel through the eye of a needle. He also says things like "give all your possessions to the poor," yet a person who took that literally could dress themselves, nor dress themselves, nor use anything of value EVER. Which, also doesn`t make sense.

    Regarding the second quote, that particular English translation of "omnipotent" came from the word pantokrator, which is closer to "ruler of all." That word was never meant to convey "infinite power to do anything and everything."
  51. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 5:30 pm
    Otto: I`ve yet to hear of a Christian church that didn`t believe that John 3:16 is the main tenet.

    If you believe in Christ as your savior you will go to heaven. It`s simple and no other religion has such a guarantee.
    Firstly, off the top of my head it`s part of Catholic dogma that the only way to salvation is through the Catholic Church. In their belief set, other brands of Christian will not be going to heaven. So there`s one for you.

    Secondly, almost all religions have a similar promise regarding their afterlife. In fact, I can`t think of one that doesn`t promise some sort of eternal happiness as long as you do X or believe Y.
  52. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 5:33 pm
    not sure where you get the impression that (a) blasphemy is worse than murder
    Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin:

    Mark 3:28-29

    Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.

    Hence such things as the Blasphemy Challenge.
  53. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 5:39 pm
    bliznik: "It`s not "purely" making up the religion yourself, b/c you`re using the Bible and the words within it as a basis for your beliefs."

    You are using SOME of the Bible, not all of it, you are picking and choosing what parts of the Bible you agree with (I am not picking on you personally, everyone who "follows" the Bible does this). Picking out the parts that one agrees with and discarding other parts is essentially the same as making it up yourself.
  54. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 5:40 pm
    He also says things like "give all your possessions to the poor," yet a person who took that literally could dress themselves, nor dress themselves, nor use anything of value EVER. Which, also doesn`t make sense.

    EXACTLY. Why is this not a problem for you and every believer? It`s a very clear instruction, yet you handwave about "taking it literally" and dismiss it?
    There`s only one way to interpret Jesus` words. It`s not a metaphor. It`s not poetic language. I`m not sure how he could have phrased it more clearly.

    What is your basis for refusing to follow Jesus` very simple command here? Because you don`t want to? Because it`s not sensible? Because your lord and saviour, who died for your sins, is making an unreasonable demand?
  55. Profile photo of Zymotical
    Zymotical Male 18-29
    198 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 5:50 pm
    @bliznik You are certainly free to your interpretative view of the bible, but if one is free to pick which they interpret as parable and which to believe as historical facts then no body is reading the same book.

    If I wrote a memoirs about my time-travelling and tried to publish it as non-fiction there would be quite a few people skeptical about my claims. Were I to release the same book as fiction no one would care cause it is not trying to be passed off as a real experience. It is how it is presented to others, especially the non-initiated.

    Do you believe that Jesus performed miracles? (water to wine, rose from the dead, blind man seeing) or are those parables also? I can`t, as a matter of your personal interpretative views of the bible, know which are and aren`t parables in your eyes.
  56. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 14, 2012 at 6:08 pm
    allmightybob: As a recovering Catholic myself I know some Catholics believe that the church is the only way to god, but I have talked to many priests who do not teach this, and that is my point, even leaders of specific denominations don`t agree on major dogma. This is just one of the reasons I came to the conclusion it is made up BS and realized I am an atheist. I know I am `preaching to the choir` here.
  57. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 1:38 am
    Zymotical: Once you stop demanding verifiable proof, or "just have faith", you lose the ability to have further reasonable discourse on the subject.

    With those conditions, that you just set, it sounds like you are the one that`s being unreasonable here.

    bob: Firstly, off the top of my head it`s part of Catholic dogma that the only way to salvation is through the Catholic Church.

    If that were true, which it isn`t, why would they invite clergy from other denominations into the Vatican for special services ? I`ve seen Orthodox priests, Jewish rabbis, Muslim clerics, and others sitting near the front row, left side, on EWTN many times. (btw, I`m not Catholic but I do watch it occasionally, flipping through channels.
  58. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 2:03 am
    bob: "give all your possessions to the poor,"

    Why truncate the whole quote ? A rich man said he wanted to be a disciple of Jesus and asked what he would need to do to be one. Jesus was responding specifically to that rich man and those that wished to be `disciples`, Jesus did not command all his believers to do this.

    This is the sort of falsehood that makes Christians want to hate atheists, taking scripture out of context, twisting it, and flat out lying about it. Pride blinds those that claim they can see. John 9: 39-41
  59. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 4:28 am
    @CrakrJak: I`ll bite.

    What`s unreasonable about wanting to be able to prove something? What`s unreasonable about not just taking everyone`s word for something?

    If I started a rumor about you choosing to be a homosexual for the next week, and everyone believed me- wouldn`t you demand some form of proof? Or what if I said, with complete certainty, that God does not exist? You would demand proof, yes?

  60. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 6:32 am
    There`s a fundamental problem when people are taking a 2000-year-old (or so) book, with their own idioms, customs and sayings, and trying to "interpret" them today. For instance, the story of Jonah (or Jonas):
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale`s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:40)
    It wasn`t an actual whale. Between the 21st and 24th of December the nights are the darkest and longest of the entire year and were known to ancient astrologers as the Whale`s Belly. This has reference to the winter constellation Cetus, the Whale, which is just above the horizon at that time. Nowadays people just think that they meant a real whale. Kind of takes away the mysticism of it all.
  61. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 6:39 am
    If that were true, which it isn`t
    It is. From the Second Vatican Council, just after it talks about non-Catholic Christians being brothers in Christ:

    Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those to whom He has given new birth into one body, and whom He has quickened to newness of life - that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is through Christ`s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.

    I`ll link to the Unitatis Redintegratio, the Vatican II document from which that quote is taken, in another post.


    Regarding why they invite other clergymen, I have no idea. An attempt to convert them maybe?
  62. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 6:43 am
    Why truncate the whole quote ?
    You`re right. Matthew 19:21 in full and in context:

    Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

    When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

    Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

    I think the context of the last few sentences, where Jesus talks to his disciples after the man has left, make it clear that he was talking about rich men in general, not this one rich man in particular who just happened to be asking the question.
    If that isn`t an instruction to all followers of Jesus, then what is?
  63. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 6:47 am
    Otto: I am a "recovering Catholic" too (nice phrase by the way). I`m not sure which priests you were talking to, but it`s Catholic Church doctrine that non-Catholics are not guaranteed salvation (exemptions apply if you have never been informed that the Catholic Church is the one path to salvation, or never heard of the Church at all).
    This was all laid out in the Second Vatican Council, the relevant document of which I will link below:

    Unitatis Redintegratio, from the Vatican archives.
  64. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 6:53 am
    patchgrabber: If you read the actual Book of Jonah (it`s quite short), it`s pretty clear that the story is about an actual whale or fish. Jonah is thrown overboard during a storm at sea, and God sends the whale/fish/sea creature to swallow him. Then when Jonah prays, the creature vomits him back up. It makes no sense as a translation error from a constellation.
  65. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 8:51 am
    sexytexan: The unreasonable part is the part about censoring those of faith. There is also a vast difference between libeling someone and discussing theological perspectives.

    And as a matter of Fact, quite a few atheists here at IAB that do state that there is no God without proof, because as they`ll tell you, you can`t prove a negative.
  66. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 9:02 am
    bob: Yes, I know the Catholic church thinks very highly of itself as the `universal help towards salvation`, but they fall short of actually saying they are the sole means of salvation.

    That was some clever diplomatic wording on their part, even for 1965, when it occurred. It`s not unlike an auto repair shop saying, "We`re the best in town".
  67. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 9:04 am
    almightybob1: I knew it was church doctrine but I had never read it before so thanks for the post. As so many things religious it can be interpreted in more than one way. In my experience with the clergy they all had different answers but were often vague so that they couldn`t be pinned down. I think they must teach that in seminary school. As an example in Vatican II that you posted where it says

    "For it is through Christ`s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained."

    The key word being `fullness`, I think a lot of priests would focus on that word to show it could be available to others but not in "full". I am sure the Vatican choose that word for its vagueness as well. I don`t know any of my Catholic friends who still practice to believe it.
  68. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 9:14 am
    @CrakrJak: I don`t see how he was trying to censor anybody. He simply stated that by shutting down a discussion with "you just have to have faith" that person is being unreasonable.

    It`s like when you argue with your girlfriend or wife. You can throw the logic of why you`re right and why they`re wrong right in their face, and they`ll completely ignore it or change the subject.

    "You just have to have faith." is to theists; as "Whatever." is to females.

    I think it`s funny when atheists take the gnostic stance on god. It`s funny because they`re taking a stance of faith.
  69. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 9:14 am
    CrakrJak:

    I agree it was clever wording, but other Christian churches do the same thing, and the ones that are specific and don`t hedge their words tend to end up on the WBC side of faith, the nutty side.
  70. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    February 15, 2012 at 9:32 am
    sexytexan876:

    I think some theists also get the misconception that an atheist is claiming no god exists when really the atheist is denying the definition of god that that particular theist is arguing for, but since the theist has the belief `their god is the only possible god` they conclude the atheist is therefore making the claim no god exists.

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