If Abortion Is Murder... [Pic]

Submitted by: half-a-life 5 years ago in

Wait... Is there actual logic in this theory?
There are 106 comments:
Male 526
who uses a spoon?
0
Reply
Female 584
Sperm by itself does not a human make. It is when the sperm and egg meet is when the journey of human life begins. I`m pro-life and even I think this sign is just plain ignorant.
0
Reply
Male 2,516
CrakrJak: I agree with the premise, not with the thesis; I believe too there should be a limit as to when you can abort a baby, but 5 weeks is way too little. 20 weeks (as Canadian law properly suggests) is a long enough period.
0
Reply
Male 2,424
needs more testing... let me help (with the supply side(not the supply of bjs the other side(yeah I knew you would go there))).

TRIPLE PARENTHESES SEX JOKE COMBO!
0
Reply
Male 17,511
jendrian: The idea is to limit abortion BEFORE everything is functional and viable, not after.

And as I said, the heart starts beating at 5 weeks, which to my logic means it`s alive. A reasonable compromise, twice that time, to 10 weeks is not irrational.
0
Reply
Male 2,516
@madest. I know, I debate mostly for fun, I doubt anyone has been convinced of anything through IAB chit-chat.

@CrakrJak. As I said before, and as Lillian pointed out as well, in developing = still not functioning. It`s like you`re trying to use your printer as soon as the chip arrives at the factory. Wait a little longer and even if the printer isn`t finished and in your hands you`ll be able to send jobs to it. Before that what`s the problem with dismantling it when it`s still not a printer?

I personally don`t agree with your compromise of the first heart-beat. When you die a bunch of your organs are still functioning, some even last longer than the heart, so by that definition we can choose any other organ (say the skin) and choose that as our starting point, or the very last organ to be developed, and then push the weeks back. Why the heart? because it sounds pretty?
0
Reply
Female 2,674
"what if your parents had one"

I was planned, so it would have been from a medical condition where it was necessary. But even disregarding that, I wouldn`t be here to discuss it with you. Simple as that. I wouldn`t have existed, nothing for me to mourn over (not that I could anyway, I`d be nonexistent xD), nothing for my family to mourn over, because it wouldn`t have been possible for them to have known how different their life would have been with me (just like we can`t tell how different their life would be if I had been aborted).

That argument`s kinda like saying, what if your dad decided to jack off the night when you were conceived instead of impregnating your mom? You wouldn`t have existed. Is masturbation bad then?
0
Reply
Female 2,769
All of you people who think that abortion is not killing someone- what if your parents had one...
0
Reply
Female 2,674
CrakrJak, how does viability have nothing to do with it? Also, I explained why your "compromise" isn`t good enough. You haven`t bothered to explain how I`m wrong. I`m fine with a compromise of 20 weeks, since that`s around when they start feeling pain and being sentient. 10 weeks isn`t enough.

Having a developing brain doesn`t mean having a functioning brain. At 12 weeks, the fetus is only about 2 inches long. Even with a developing brain, there`s no way that it`s developed enough to actually do anything besides automatic actions (which happen naturally and isn`t something the fetus has control over).
0
Reply
Male 17,511
madest: Go back to searching for UFOs that`s your thing.
0
Reply
Male 17,511
Lillian: Viability has little to do with it. I suggested a compromise and as I predicted, no one wants to. You and jendrian have proven that quite well.
0
Reply
Male 17,511
jendrian: Why don`t you back up several weeks there bud.

Week 5 - "A neural groove (future spinal cord) forms over the notochord with a brain bulge at one end. Neuromeres appear. (day 18 of fert."

Week 7 - "The brain divides into 5 vesicles, including the early telencephalon." - wikipedia
0
Reply
Male 7,378
jendrian, Using facts to debate CJ is a waste of time. They get in the way of unthoughtful arguments.
0
Reply
Male 1,510
Here`s some logic: If fetus is viable, don`t kill it. I don`t know how ANYONE can argue against that.
0
Reply
Female 2,674
Also according to pregnancy.org, the fetus isn`t considered viable until 24 weeks, so...
0
Reply
Female 2,674
Here`s the pregnancy.org page for 12 week fetus

How the hell does that disprove what jendrian said?
The only thing I see that`s wrong is that at 11 weeks according to that site the fingers aren`t webbed anymore.
0
Reply
Male 2,516
The last part said: "genitals are well differentiated" but again, not well developed

I don`t doubt their accuracy, I doubt your comprehension skills. Which part of "still in development" tells you everything`s already working fine?
0
Reply
Male 2,516
CrakrJak: From wikipedia:

Weeks 10–12
- Embryo measures 30–80 mm (1.2–3.2 inches) in length.
- Ventral and dorsal pancreatic buds fuse during the 8th week. AKA known as still in development.
- Intestines rotate. Because they`re still in development
- Facial features continue to develop. Because they haven`t finished developing.
- The eyelids are more developed. But not completely developed
- The external features of the ear begin to take their final shape. Begin to, as in, it hasn`t finished, mainly, it just started.
- The head comprises nearly half of the fetus` size. Unlike in working formed babies.
- The face is well formed. Check one for you!
- The eyelids close and will not reopen until about the 28th week. Because they`re not ready yet.
- Tooth buds, which will form the baby teeth, appear. Just appear
- The limbs are long and thin.
- The fetus can make a fist with its fingers. Webbed fingers
- Genitals
0
Reply
Male 17,511
jendrian: No, you`re wrong on that.

Pregnancy.org and Wikipedia are my sources and I have no reason to doubt their accuracy.
0
Reply
Male 2,516
CrakrJak: Watch the pictures I posted before, read every article on 12 week old fetuses: the fingers are webbed, the eyes are not functioning, the lungs are not functioning, the brain is not functioning, the fetus by then is NOT functioning yet, it`s in development to become a functioning baby, which supposedly should happen around the 20th week
0
Reply
Female 2,674
"So, I can remove your 8 month three week old body part and only be charged with theft or something?"

I have an 8 month three week old body part? o.o
0
Reply
Female 2,509
"Then what is masterbation?"

Child abandonment.
0
Reply
Male 2,619
Blowjobs aren`t. Swallowing semen could be .(fertilisation etc. apart)
0
Reply
Male 2,124
So, I can remove your 8 month three week old body part and only be charged with theft or something?
0
Reply
Male 1,678
If the dude you`re blowing spunks out fully fertilized human eggs then yes it is.
0
Reply
Male 878
"Then what is masterbation?"

Don`t know. There`s no such word.
0
Reply
Male 7,378
You can freeze a fetus. You can`t freeze a baby.
0
Reply
Female 592
IT`S MY BODY!!!!!!!!
0
Reply
Male 40,266

"Cannibalism" huh?
Well I would definately make a sandwich with these guys. Hefty, but not more meat than I can handle.

0
Reply
Male 1,582
@Calithlin

Actually a fetus doesn`t become sentient until about 8-12 weeks into pregnancy, and in that time cannot feel any level of pain.
0
Reply
Male 17,511
jendrian: We aren`t talking about killing "fully formed functioning people" now are we ?

We are talking about killing a fetus with all 10 fingers and toes, all major organs, a beating heart, functioning muscles, bones, and nerves, eyes, a tongue, and can even suckle it`s own thumbs. All of those attributes are comparative to full-term babies, even though they aren`t yet viable outside the womb.
0
Reply
Female 99
she has a point :D
0
Reply
Male 2,737
Then what is masterbation?
0
Reply
Male 7,378
The great thing about abortion is you might feel it. But you won`t remember it.
0
Reply
Male 40
I know this is going to sound weird, but given my understanding and practice of creating virtual machines with artificial intelligence, and the insights that has provided me into the workings of living beings, I can say that despite the `grey matter` the article brings up which brings context to the pain a fetus would feel, there is still a `feeling` being had of pain, even if at a different level of consciousness. A fully grown human and a severely unintelligent animal acting only on reflexive instinct will both `feel` pain.
0
Reply
Male 2,516
@Edgarska19: quote again from the link:

A fetus of 12 weeks cannot in any way be compared to a fully formed functioning person. At this stage only rudiments of the organ systems are present. The fetus is unable to sustain life outside the woman`s womb, it is incapable of conscious thought; it is incapable of essential breathing. It is instead an in utero fetus with the potential of becoming a child.

So it`s not the same as just changing the name of something, it`s more like removing an apple that could`ve become a pie
0
Reply
Male 2,516
@CrakrJak: I see you didn`t read LillianDulci`s link,
here it is again, quote:

Claim:
The 12-week fetus makes purposeful movements (e.g., agitated movement in an attempt to avoid suction cannula).
Facts:
At this stage of pregnancy, all fetal movement is reflexive in nature rather than purposeful, since the latter requires cognition, which is the ability to perceive and know. For cognition to occur, the cortex (gray matter covering the brain) must be present, as well as myelinization (covering sheath) of the spinal cord and attached nerves, which is not the case.

So the brain is there forming, but it`s not ready to be used. Ergo, no feeling.
0
Reply
Male 17,511
jendrian: "At 11 weeks pregnant, nearly all structures and organs are formed and beginning to function." - according to pregnancy.org

Week 5 - "A neural groove (future spinal cord) forms over the notochord with a brain bulge at one end. Neuromeres appear. (day 18 of fert."
Week 7 - "The brain divides into 5 vesicles, including the early telencephalon." - wikipedia

So yes there is a brain in there to feel.
0
Reply
Male 1,045
Well, if abortions aren`t murder, then I wonder if I can get away with killing some hipsters by calling it something else.
What if I call it "overpopulation control"?
0
Reply
Female 2,674
"I`m not sure what defines human life more than a beating human heart. "

A beating heart means nothing other than you`re alive. Other creatures have beating hearts. People can be kept alive after they`re dead by keeping their hearts beating. Brain dead people can be kept alive, just as long as their heart beats. But they`re not really alive. What defines humans is mostly our brains. Brain dead people are hardly people any more than dead people are people. Having a heart beat means nothing when you aren`t able to think for yourself. A functioning body is nothing more than a machine until there`s brain function.
0
Reply
Female 2,674
ShudBWorking - Uh, how does what I said show that I don`t know anything about a "12 week old baby" (I`m assuming you mean 12 week fetus though, a 12 week baby is obviously able to feel pain and is cognitive, unlike a 12 week fetus). It`s debated on when a fetus actually becomes sentient, but the general consensus is that its around 22ish weeks. Not 12. At 12, it does have some functions, but they`re automatic actions (not something that the fetus is able to control). It`s only ~2 inches long and hardly anything like an actual infant.
0
Reply
Male 2,516
no, they`re supposed to prove to you and CrakrJak that there`s no brain in there yet to feel, think, or respond to anything, much less "scream"
0
Reply
Male 2,516
it doesn`t really look that different one week before or after from what I posted
0
Reply
Male 86
@jendrian - were those pictures in support of abortion? Because they kinda seem to prove CrakrJak`s point. Even from those, kinda hard to argue that they are not human, oh, and they have a human heart beating in those human chests at that time. I`m not sure what defines human life more than a beating human heart.
0
Reply
Male 86
@LilianDulci: I don`t have the time to check all the claims on that website, so for now, I will take your word for it on that video and stop pushing that subject. As for the development stage of a 12 week old baby, you have just proved my point. You have not educated your-self on the development cycle, and so do not know what the baby is like at 12 weeks. To back up my claim, I have a site that I will link to here in a sec., but first I want to say that I could have linked to any of hundreds of sites to back up my claim, this was just one of the first, and has a nice picture to go along with it. Enjoy. 12 Weeks In
0
Reply
Male 2,516
@ShudBWorking: BURN!
@CrakrJak: that`s a drawing of a fetus, and a rather exaggerated one at that.
These are pictures of 10 and 11 week old fetuses, respectively:

0
Reply
Female 2,674
@ShudBWorking - Here`s a website detailing some of the claims made in "Silent Scream" and how they are factually incorrect. "Silent Scream" is just a propaganda tool and medically inaccurate and you really shouldn`t recommend people watch it unless you want to be laughed at. click here

The atrocious film does more than "show that an embryo is more than just a sack of cells". It makes many incorrect claims such as a 12 week fetus being able to feel pain and that it tries to prevent being aborted. A 12 week old fetus in reality is about 2 inches long and can`t feel pain and is not anywhere close to being a fully developed infant.
0
Reply
Male 275
Do vegans spit or swallow?
0
Reply
Female 51
Only if ya swallow!
0
Reply
Male 40
Ladies, if you are swallowing fertilized eggs, then yes, you are a murderer. And you`re doing it wrong.
0
Reply
Male 700
I lol`d so hard
0
Reply
Male 3,310
You`re assuming that pro-lifers are swallowers. Logic fails
0
Reply
Male 86
@LillianDulci: "...propaganda junk filled with complete lies...". To that I say, please point out the complete lies, because to me, it sounds like you are expressing opinion. Whereas the film is expressing fact, unless you can find a more reputable source to point out any errors that negate the point of the film, which was to show that an embryo is more than just a sack of cells, and is actually a human being. Before that file, no one had seen what an abortion does to the child.
0
Reply
Male 10,440
Sometime during the 2nd trimester seems like a reasonable compromise.

Of course I would prefer it at birth, since up until that point the baby is attached to and technically part of the mother`s body.

But practically there are very, very few women who would wait that long to get an abortion, it also presents additional... problems.
0
Reply
Male 2,790
and handjobs are strangle victims?
0
Reply
Female 2,674
"Please also see the movie "Silent Scream"."

You`re promoting this piece of propaganda junk filled with complete lies... and you expect me to take you seriously...?
0
Reply
Male 206
is that bitch eating cum with a spoon?
0
Reply
Male 41,177
vv @SarahofBorg: Except for DNA of course.
Humans having human DNA as opposed to cat, and the fetus having DIFFERENT DNA than the mother. Other than that... :rolleyes:
0
Reply
Male 86
Logic fail. Abortion, at least according to most people I know, is the killing of the cells that have at least past the stage of fertilization and implantation. Without either of those, there never would have been a baby in the first place. Therefore, blow jobs are not cannibalism, they are only stopping the fertilization process, not killing an already likely and possible human being. To those of you that support abortion, besides intrigid, he`s just sick, please check out 3D photos of babies in the womb. Please also see the movie "Silent Scream". Also, if your feeling brave, please google photos of aborted babies, it changed my point of view forever. Once you see all of that, you cannot call it anything but murder and still be sane.
0
Reply
Female 3,562
Abortion is no more killing a human being than it is killing a kitten. At that stage in the embryo development there is physically no difference.
0
Reply
Male 508
@OldOllie "If liberals want to kill their kids before they have a chance to grow up and vote, I say let `em."

Thank you. I wish more A N A L retentive right wingers thought that way. Whatever your motivation...you`re on the right track.
0
Reply
Male 2,242
Abortion is legal, I support the constitution.
0
Reply
Male 914
Abortion IS the killing of the human being. And guess what. I still support it.
0
Reply
Male 15,832
If liberals want to kill their kids before they have a chance to grow up and vote, I say let `em.
0
Reply
Female 2,674
"For argument and timings sake let`s compromise to 10 weeks in, that`s more than long enough for women to be aware they are pregnant and make a decision. "

Not necessarily. Women are usually ~4 weeks along before they find out, so 10 weeks gives them 6 weeks for an abortion. Some women continue to bleed while pregnant, so it`ll take those women longer to notice. A lot of women aren`t even showing by 10 weeks. Not everyone has the funds right away to travel to and get an abortion right away, especially with Republicans trying to reduce the amount of planned parenthood`s and etc that`ll offer the service for a cheaper price.

That picture you posted isn`t completely accurate. At 12 weeks the fetus is only about 2 inches long, so that picture is ~2x the size of the actual fetus. No one`s denying that it`s human, but "oh it looks just like a mini-baby" isn`t a valid argument.
0
Reply
Male 217
No, if abortion is murder, than eating half-formed fetuses is cannibalism. And yes, it is.
0
Reply
Male 2,551
bardockjerms - She`s a classy lady. That`s why.

And abortion is murder. Tasty tasty murder.
0
Reply
Male 17,511
ivran: Not really. I`ve proposed a very logical compromise for a long time now.

If you`re dead when your heart stops beating, you should be considered alive when it starts beating.
The heart starts beating around the fifth week of the pregnancy. Home pregnancy tests can now detect it 6 days before a missed period, that`s 3 weeks into a pregnancy.

For argument and timings sake let`s compromise to 10 weeks in, that`s more than long enough for women to be aware they are pregnant and make a decision.

Now I know this compromise won`t settle the issue or satisfy everyone. But this 12 week picture,



makes it pretty damn hard to argue that it isn`t a human being.
0
Reply
Male 4,317
penicillin is murder
0
Reply
Male 1,586
So if blowjobs are cannibalism then masturbation is genocide.
0
Reply
Male 599
It`s funny because they`re just as illogical as the pro-lifers.
0
Reply
Male 4,793
Some states now consider the fetus to be a person. So if you want to have a legal abortion, just say the person is trespassing upon your body and have the law remove them from the premises.
0
Reply
Female 583
Honestly, all I can think about George Carlin while reading the comments, "Not every ejaculation deserves a name."
0
Reply
Male 2,085
Looks like someone only paid half attention in their logic class.
0
Reply
Male 10,440
I don`t follow the logic here, unless you consider that everything which is a "potential human" has the same value.

There are plenty better arguments for abortion.
0
Reply
Female 2,674
If a guy eats his own semen it can be seen as a form of autocannibalism, so if someone else eats it instead, it`s kinda like cannibalism :P
0
Reply
Male 3,372
FAKEBACON: "Why would someone swallow sperm?"

It`s her way of saying "I love you"
0
Reply
Male 4,546
"If abortion is murder, then miscarriage is involuntary manslaughter."

Still no. If you accidentally DO something to cause it INVOLUNTARILY , that might be, but miscarriage happens for many reasons beyond your control.
0
Reply
Male 4,546
Eating eggs is consistent with vegetarianism.
Eating eggs with chicks in them is not.

To take it further:
A chicken eating unfertilized egg isn`t a cannibal.
A chicken eating a fertilized one is.
0
Reply
Male 586
Sperm just make up one half of the human gene equation. It is not a human. Why would someone swallow sperm? Stupid argument.
0
Reply
Male 542
Fallacious logic... Please, women, just try to avoid the whole ordeal if you can.
0
Reply
Male 232
And why is she using a spoon???? 0__o
0
Reply
Male 232
Eating a foetus would be the equivalent of abortion not a blowjob -___-
0
Reply
Male 96
I`m dumb. I don`t get the correlation.
0
Reply
Male 553
@5Cats Sperm is not a body fluid, Semen is. Sperm are the little tadpole guys that swim around in it. If you`re gonna call out "Epic fails" at least get it right.
0
Reply
Male 40,266

Ryan Reynolds looks delicious.
Yeah for cannibalism.
0
Reply
Male 41,177
Epic fail: sperm is not a human being, just a body fluid.
Of course Anti-Life zealots are a brainless bunch...
0
Reply
Male 2,419
@weepee and both would be the same logic, it`s not a living thing when it`s a few unspecialized cells
0
Reply
Male 3,372
This would apply more relevently to Republicans against birth control.
0
Reply
Male 43
vv Jendrian ftw!
0
Reply
Male 987
Since when do you use a spoon?
0
Reply
Male 2,516
If abortion is murder, then miscarriage is involuntary manslaughter.
0
Reply
Male 612
sperm alone is not a fertilized egg. their analogy is not sound. using their same logic would also mean that every period a girl has is an abortion.
0
Reply
Male 25,416
win!
0
Reply
Male 7,839
I will give them that its on par with drinking blood. But, is drinking blood considered cannibalism?
0
Reply
Male 4,431
No, incorrect. It should read that if contraception/birth control is murder, then blowjobs are cannibalism. That would be a lot closer, and, fact is, a lot of idiot politicians are trying to limit/prevent access to contraception/birth control, so, even stated as I did, it`d be poignant and on target, just not quite as hot-button, I don`t reckon.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
It would arguably be more logical to say that breathing anywhere near anyone else is cannibalism. Everyone sheds some cells all the time and those cells contain their entire DNA, not just half of it. Breathing anywhere near them will suck in some of those cells.
0
Reply
Male 447
Well you can`t have any pudding if you don`t eat your meat.
0
Reply
Male 83
While I agree with the sentiment, unfortunately it is an incorrect conclusion: anti-abortionists are arguing that life and thus the status of a human begins at conception - not at the point of ejaculation.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
[quote]Wait... Is there actual logic in this theory?[/quote]

No. It`s either highly illogical or extremely ignorant of human biology. It`s only logical if you think that each and every sperm contains the entire "blueprint" for a person and needs only a host and time to become a person.
0
Reply
Male 51
If both the father and mother want an abortion, I don`t see the harm in it. You can`t miss what you never really had, right? People can have opinions, and by all means they can share them, but they can`t take out rights and freedom away. If they do that, then what the hell am I fighting for?
0
Reply
Male 6,737
Ok. No. That`s not comparible.

I am pro-choice btw, but that poster is stupid.

0
Reply
Male 8,715
They`re only half-right.

Of course, they`re only working with half a brain (between them).

Fallacy in logic.
0
Reply
Male 3,745
nope there isn`t sorry :)
0
Reply
Male 683
It`s only half way to cannibalism.
0
Reply
Male 254
Link: If Abortion Is Murder... [Pic] [Rate Link] - Wait... Is there actual logic in this theory?
0
Reply