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Date: 01/11/12 12:01 PM

73 Responses to Christopher Hitchens On Human Suffering

  1. Profile photo of imnakdjumpme
    imnakdjumpme Male 18-29
    598 posts
    January 10, 2012 at 3:43 pm
    Link: Christopher Hitchens On Human Suffering - When questioned about what comfort athiest can provide the downtrodden, Hitchens posed a disturbing but moving point.
  2. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:08 pm
    Oh, lawdy, here we go.
  3. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:12 pm
    right o...
  4. Profile photo of MrOrange
    MrOrange Male 30-39
    2402 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    good call.
  5. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7618 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:27 pm
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
  6. Profile photo of hiddenid958
    hiddenid958 Male 30-39
    34 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:30 pm
    Let me sum up what is about to happen

    * Christian argument
    * Atheist argument
    * Christian quote from bible.
    * Atheist insult and science fact
    * Random agnostic saying both are foolish
    * mention of flame war
    * Christian final statement
    * atheist says "drat you"
  7. Profile photo of Zieveraar
    Zieveraar Male 30-39
    415 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:31 pm
    `God moves in mysterious ways`, or `free will`, I`m sure some will give those as explanation.
  8. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36870 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    She didn`t pray hard enough. When God doesn`t answer it`s your own lack of faith that is at fault.

    What`s what I was taught in sunday school... what a load of rubbish.
  9. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7618 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:54 pm
    Yes Zieverar- but the argument is valid anyway. As for mysterious ways- always makes me laugh as I have visions of the Ministry of Silly walks.
  10. Profile photo of AntEconomist
    AntEconomist Male 40-49
    356 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:47 pm
    Fifteen hundred years` worth of some of the best minds in philosophy and theology have gone extremely deeply into this question and come to some interesting conclusions. Are we to believe that a journalist can, in two and half minutes, pose a salient argument that centuries of philosophical thought hasn`t considered? Or that those of us who attended Sunday school for an hour a week while children managed to glean enough to engage the debate in a meaningful way?
  11. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 2:11 pm
    His argument means nothing to me. I`m pretty atheist myself, but saying that there`s no god because sh*t sucks for some people doesn`t hold much water for me.
  12. Profile photo of NOCASH
    NOCASH Male 18-29
    423 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 3:10 pm
    when god doesnt answer, switch phone service providers.
  13. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 3:22 pm
    I was honestly expecting something more brief & acerbic, you know like, "It`ll all be over soon."
  14. Profile photo of h2oxy
    h2oxy Male 18-29
    307 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 3:25 pm
    @DixxyRarr he`s not arguing that there is no god, he`s countering the question of "What hope does having and atheist viewpoint offer to people" by pointing out how even if he couldn`t come up with a valid answer neither could the christian religion(s)
  15. Profile photo of jadoig
    jadoig Male 30-39
    434 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 4:28 pm
    Hitchens` answer doesn`t hold water. His claim that it is immoral to say "It`s ok, the reward in Heaven will be worth the pain (s)he went through on earth" is false. If it provided no comfort, if it made worse the pain of the one being counseled to say so, then it would be immoral. If however you are seeking counsel from someone who would say such a thing, you are likely a believer and would take comfort in such an idea. Therefore saying such a thing is perfectly moral, especially if you believe it to be truth.
  16. Profile photo of jadoig
    jadoig Male 30-39
    434 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 4:29 pm
    Simple truth: Sometimes there can be no comfort to give.
  17. Profile photo of cola3
    cola3 Male 18-29
    55 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 5:16 pm
    is acceptance not comfort enough that you have to believe to believe in fantastic fairy tales instead?
  18. Profile photo of Justahuman
    Justahuman Male 18-29
    109 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 5:20 pm
    Madduck-Epicurus quote clearly the argument of someone who has not read the bible.If god acted out and destroyed all evil,he would destroy his living experiment of good vs evil it would also prove his existence to the rest of humanity forcing them to believe in him because they got the proof we are all dying to see.That would be like forcing someone to love you which is not real love.He gives us the choice to love him, hate him, or ignore him.This makes the choice to love him more beautiful in his eyes.
  19. Profile photo of cola3
    cola3 Male 18-29
    55 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 5:36 pm
    @Justahuman that is a gross rationalization. you have to come up with silly excuses and rationalizations for god every time you`re presented with logic. your argument turns god into a hateful kid with a self esteem issue, with a magnifying glass. and that is just ludicrous.
  20. Profile photo of jadoig
    jadoig Male 30-39
    434 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 5:57 pm
    I like Justahuman`s theory of a good vs evil experiment. Kind of ties things together nicely from a God standpoint. I don`t see where it presents God as a "hateful kid with a self esteem issue". If it did, then God would be forcing us to love Him instead of giving us the option.

    Madduck:
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. - He is supposed to be omnipotent so he must be able.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - This seems to fit the bill, except He is supposed to be Love, so He cannot be malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? - I posit Evil comes from people as a balance for good.
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - This is not the case as stated above.

    I posit that, assuming He exists, He is willing and able but has constrained himself, just as a parent might constrain themselves from bailing out a child who has done wrong.
  21. Profile photo of cola3
    cola3 Male 18-29
    55 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 6:06 pm
    @jadoig yahweh commands to be praised and loved, and he smote countless people in the bible who disrespected him. like a kid killing ants with a magnifying glass. and if believe in him, you spend eternity praising him and singing his glory. and if you dont believe in him you burn for eternity. both sound pretty boring. clearly it is just a fable.
  22. Profile photo of SarahofBorg
    SarahofBorg Female 18-29
    3564 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 6:49 pm
    There is no known justification for the suffering in the world. Even the most faithful have failed to justify it. God created evil and allows it to exist for reasons completely unknown to us. That sure doesn`t help me feel better.
  23. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36870 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    What ever happened to blaming bad stuff on the Devil?
    We could go back to that.
  24. Profile photo of jadoig
    jadoig Male 30-39
    434 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 7:18 pm
    Cola: You make it sound like a bad thing. LOL.
  25. Profile photo of cola3
    cola3 Male 18-29
    55 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 7:25 pm
    @jadoig it sounds incredibly boring to stroke gods ego for eternity.
  26. Profile photo of jadoig
    jadoig Male 30-39
    434 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 7:37 pm
    Cola, I think it depends on your POV.
    Not that it matters, cause it`s a fable and all, but what if, hypothetically of course, it was awesome to praise him, and there were virtually countless ways to do it?
    And what if it felt REALLY good, and you got to do it for EVER and closer and more intense than you ever did here? Would it be boring then?
  27. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 8:17 pm
    "Would it be boring then?"

    Yes
  28. Profile photo of jpfu220
    jpfu220 Male 18-29
    65 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 8:24 pm
    @sarahofborg. God didn`t create evil. Since God is holy, that is, he is perfectly good and pure and righteous in every way, it is not possible for him to do evil/be evil/create evil. Why does He allow suffering to exist? Because we choose to let it exist. The world is broken. Sin is the problem. Why do people suffer? Because someone is exercising free will to sin against someone else. Famine in a country and rebel groups steal UN supplies? sin. Girl kept in a basement and raped? (obviously) sin. I steal candy from a kid? sin. All sin, and all brought about by our own free will. God doesn`t cause suffering. People do. He gave us the fix. We nailed that fix to a cross.
  29. Profile photo of Grayvyn
    Grayvyn Male 18-29
    8 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:00 pm
    Replace that picture of God doing nothing about starving African children with a picture of Christopher Hitchens and all of these other atheists sitting on THEIR couch making HATE videos about people`s way of life, putting so much effort into trying to make people look stupid.

    Not to mention this Hitchens guy has probably dismissed at least 90% of the Bible. Practically the entire Old Testament is about Israel being defeated, their daughters raped, and the rest sold into slavery at the invading nation`s homeland.

    Invalid argument is invalid. Life`s not fair. Bible states that pretty clearly.
  30. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:11 pm
    jpfu220: Bravo, Well said.
  31. Profile photo of Quackor
    Quackor Male 18-29
    2856 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:11 pm
    god plays sim universe, but as every sim game everyone ends up hating micromanagement
  32. Profile photo of SunnyNphilly
    SunnyNphilly Male 18-29
    645 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:26 pm
    Jesus loves the little children
    all the children of the world


    (except the impoverished, starving, neglected, and abused ones)

    If you don`t understand, I`m calling your religion idiotic.
  33. Profile photo of kummi90
    kummi90 Male 18-29
    541 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:54 pm
    jpfu220: Assuming you believe in the Bible;
    Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

    If your are not; it doesn`t matter. Perfectly good, is he?
    "we choose to". Did we, really? Did you? Cause I sure as drat didn`t.
    "Why do people suffer? Because someone is exercising free will to sin against someone else".
    What? are you suggesting that other people have to pay the price for some other people`s "sinning". How would a good God ever allow this? Children dying everyday. Innocent children who have done nothing wrong. You defend this by claiming "sin". What perverse God would punish some people for OTHER`S mistakes? Your post is sickening, and so is your beliefs.
  34. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14657 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:58 pm
    @SunnyNphilly

    Yes, god is either imaginary, impotent, evil, unaware, or indifferent. Either way, he/she/it`s irrelevant.
  35. Profile photo of Discobiscuit
    Discobiscuit Male 18-29
    542 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:35 pm
    Hitchens sure shot down the questioner, all right, but it`s a real shame to be left with the "Tough poo" answer
  36. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:12 pm
    There once lived a little boy. Like any little boy, he made mistakes while growing up, and always his parents were happy to take care of everything for him. They painstakingly worked to prevent him from suffering in any way, and to always make sure he was happy. When the little boy grew up, the world consumed him and his ignorance, because he was never able to learn to pick himself up.
    God`s greatest gift to humanity, behind the savior Jesus Christ, is our free will. instead of creating his own minecraft, God allows us to do what WE want, regardless of what that is. And one thing I`ve noticed about alot (not all) atheists is that they are very quick to reprimand God for this gift. Suffering is caused by sin, but it seems so unfair that the innocent suffer as a result of the guiltys` sins. I can`t explain why, but I do know that suffering in the world provides opportunity for those who have been blessed with happiness to share that happiness with the much less fortunate.
  37. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:19 pm
    Another unfair argument I`ve seen put up by atheists is this: Why does God allowing suffering in the world? Well, where was the world`s faith in God before they were suffering? When things are good, we`re so quick to praise ourselves on what we`ve accomplished, but when things are bad we`re equally quick to blame God. This is a very contradictory argument. How does it make sense to expect God to instantly remove our pain and suffering when we aren`t willing to tithe our blessings, or go out into the world and share them with others? If you aren`t with God through the good, why would he be there for you during the bad?
    There are alot of believers who are in pain as well, but that is the spiritual oppression the Bible speaks of. Satan is a liar and deceiver, and will do anything to direct the anger and retribution of humanity toward the father when in fact it is Lucifer who oppresses the human race. It is Lucifer who puts temptations for evil into our hearts and Lucifer who is to bl
  38. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:26 pm
    I see alot of anger and bitterness in some of the comments on here, and that hurts my heart. I`ve slipped in my faith a number of times because of this very question. I`ve never understood why suffering is allowed in the world. But despite this, I`ve seen too many things and heard too many stories to doubt the existence of God. Therefore, I truly believe the Bible is the word of God. Countless times I`ve prayed things silently to myself, and been blessed with an answer to those prayers. Countless other times, I`ve seen no answer. But down the road I always find myself looking back and seeing that things worked out for the best. I can`t speak for anyone else, but I know God`s love is more powerful than anything we can comprehend, and if we give ourselves to Him and live how he wants us to then he will give us more joy and happiness in our hearts than any amount of physical suffering can take away. But we can`t be ignorant enough to think we can hold on to our sin and still be blessed.
  39. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:32 pm
    It is the job of the blessed to take care of the oppressed. The job of the well-off to take care of the suffering. The job of the healthy to take care of the sick. God put us all on Earth together for a purpose: to build each other up and to stand against pain and suffering as a united front. But is that what we`re doing? No, we`re all on this thread arguing about some thing that some guy said at some conference. We all agree that suffering sucks and is unfair, but are we willing to work together and do anything about it. Put your actions where your words are and stand up for whatever HELPS OTHERS. But if you`re really curious about God, then think or say to yourself, "Lord show me your love." If the atheists are right then what do they have to lose by doing it, but say it or think it, and really put your heart and soul/essence/self into it. Mean it and want it, and just be open to whatever happens. But I can`t guarantee an answer if you can`t guarantee sincerity.
  40. Profile photo of Dead-Kittens
    Dead-Kittens Male 30-39
    1128 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:36 pm
    To say there could have been `something` is the only truly logical answer when it comes to religion, both extremes base their entire philosophy on hope/faith/probability/assumption. Maybe the bible was like `Star wars` of the zero year..maybe it was an alien ..maybe some dude had a little too much absynth and seen another dude walk on water lol.

    I sincerely doubt theres some omnipotent being seeing all things at all times judging our one mistake as a reason to send us to a fiery inferno for all eternity...but...there have been times out hitch hiking (northern Canada) and literally came close to freezing to death (the sensation to just go crawl in the nearest hole and sleep) and you damn skippy I prayed to god to "get me the drat out this poo man!"

    Although some people take it to extreme..and among its MANY MANY faults..it does have its benefits.

    + church girls are hot lol.
  41. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7618 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:52 pm
    I love the thought that because I quoted Epicurus- nice riddle- I have not read the bible. Yes, I have- both Old and New. New is too cobbled together about one person and rather boring- Old is fascinating. Both are cobbled together from various texts- some bits are most likely historical accounts others are religious books. Doesn`t show anything about the existence of any god as The Bible was incontrovertibly written by men over quite a long period of time.
  42. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:57 pm
    Given, christianity has SEVERAL flaws, just as anything else humans do does. But those flaws are all due to our own imperfections. The Word of God, and God in general, are perfect, and if we followed them perfectly, THAT would be the perfect religion. But the Bible says we are imperfect, and that we will inevitably continue to screw up. But he beautiful part about it is that God doesn`t judge our sins if we just believe in Christ and ask him to forgive us. That`s literally all it takes. Think about every flaw you`ve ever seen in the Christian belief system and ask yourself, is it an inherent problem with the faith, or is it just something stupid that someone did. Because all of the christian doctrine can be summed up with two commandments, 1. Love Christ, and 2. Love your fellow man.
  43. Profile photo of Justahuman
    Justahuman Male 18-29
    109 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 1:06 am
    Cola3-Cmon man give god a break he created the universe in 6 days he knows the end and the begining,the moment he created the earth he had YOU in his mind,When Christ died he had YOU in his prayers....whats wrong with a bit of worship and praise if he deserves it xD
  44. Profile photo of Justahuman
    Justahuman Male 18-29
    109 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 1:08 am
    Carot091 "1. Love Christ, and 2. Love your fellow man"

    Yes plz
  45. Profile photo of Justahuman
    Justahuman Male 18-29
    109 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 1:16 am
    kummi90-You think your sad about the injustice and sin falling on the innocent?I dont know if you have kids or not but,imagine your own children killing eachother everyday,he has to watch his own children starve and die because of hate and greed,You dont think the Lord mourns everyday for his children.whatever breaks your heart its even worse for god,we put him through hell and all he can do is watch and mourn.
  46. Profile photo of Justahuman
    Justahuman Male 18-29
    109 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 1:29 am
    If you hate religion check this vid i saw today,i can dissagree with few points he has but its solid http://youtu.be/1IAhDGYlpqY
  47. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 1:36 am
    God created evil and allows it to exist for reasons completely unknown to us.

    Wrong, Mankind created evil through sin. Evil exists because of us, not God. We have the freewill to do good or evil, we are not puppets.

    Sure, God has the power to destroy evil, to do that he would have to destroy sin, which would mean destroying the source of that sin, namely us.

    Instead God loves us and to prove it he sent his only son Jesus Christ to die, as payment for our sins. He simplified everything, yet left us with our freewill. It`s up to us, accept his son into our hearts and clean our souls of sin, or allow that sin to build and create evil for us.
  48. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 2:45 am
    JustaHuman and CrakrJak, excellent points. It`s very common to hear, "If God loves us/If God exists, why is there so much evil in the world?" It`s not like this evil comes up from the ground and smacks people in the face. It comes from us, brother to brother, sister to sister. A common atheist argument is that God should just "get rid of all the evil". It`s an inherent fact that humans screw up, on a pretty regular basis too. So If God were to take this suggestion, where would he stop? Does he JUST destroy those who kill? or rape? or cheat others out of money? or lie? or all of the above? Sin can be so small or so large in our eyes, but to the Lord it`s all the same. It`s all evil, and he has to sit there and watch us destroy ourselves, having nothing but sadness and love for us in his heart, hoping that one day we`ll become aware of our evil ways. God wants a personal relationship with every human being, but it`s the sin of every single individual that stands in th
  49. Profile photo of xCYBERDYNEx
    xCYBERDYNEx Male 18-29
    4903 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 3:32 am
    Religion is like a penis.
    It`s fine to have one.
    It`s fine to be proud of it.
    But please don`t whip it out in public and start waving it around.
    And PLEASE don`t try and shove it down my children`s throats.
  50. Profile photo of Dutch-Master
    Dutch-Master Male 18-29
    52 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 3:49 am
    the only God that exists is called "evolution" helped by a lot of "coincidence".
  51. Profile photo of ElliotR
    ElliotR Male 18-29
    9 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 4:15 am
    @CrakrJak

    I`m an atheist and i`m accustomed to seeing religious people saying stupid things when trying to back up god... but your comment gave me hope for the people in Christianity :P
  52. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 5:56 am
    Why does God allowing suffering in the world? Well, where was the world`s faith in God before they were suffering?
    So God wants people to suffer so they will worship him. That`s what a dictator does.

    If you aren`t with God through the good, why would he be there for you during the bad?
    I thought he was meant to be an eternally loving father, not a petulant child in the huff.

    Wrong, Mankind created evil through sin. Evil exists because of us, not God.
    Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6 and Isaiah 45:7 all disagree with you.
  53. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 8:10 am
    Christianity:
    The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie, who was his own father, can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

    Delusion: a fixed belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.
  54. Profile photo of StickmanJ
    StickmanJ Male 40-49
    18 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 9:06 am
    Great job OTTO, now look up symbolism.
  55. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 9:51 am
    Stickman: I assume you are referring to this definition of symbolism.

    b : the use of conventional or traditional signs in the representation of divine beings and spirits.

    Symbols do not make something true. The symbolism is absurd.
  56. Profile photo of zombunny
    zombunny Female 18-29
    2525 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 11:21 am
    I`ve never liked this argument against religion, because I just feel like it`s too emotionally charged to be taken seriously.
  57. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 11:53 am
    Again we have one of many arguments which really does highlight how utterly ridiculous traditional religious beliefs are. It truly does astound me how people can still have these beliefs, it must be a weakness of the mind.
  58. Profile photo of Quackor
    Quackor Male 18-29
    2856 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 11:57 am
    Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:10:06 AM
    Christianity:
    The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie, who was his own father, can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

    looks legit to me
  59. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    Since there is no god, it`s kind of a moot point.
  60. Profile photo of funnehkitteh
    funnehkitteh Male 18-29
    528 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 3:10 pm
    why hasn`t god struck me down yet?

    ANSWER THAT BEACHES!!
  61. Profile photo of heresjonny
    heresjonny Male 13-17
    104 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 3:33 pm
    @zombunny Religion is largely based on emotional manipulation.
  62. Profile photo of snakecharmer
    snakecharmer Male 18-29
    321 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 7:06 pm
    The reason why things like that happen is because we have free will and we make choices that effect other people.

    It`s not God`s fault or religion`s fault that guy did that, nor is it Mr. Hitchens` mom`s fault that he`s (was) a fagg.

    My point is when something bad happens, most i-a-b-ers are prone to blame it on the religion everyone loves to hate, but the reality is you guys are just looking for a scapegoat to help you feel better about yourselves.

    Bashing Christianity or any other religion won`t help guys, and you may try to blame it on conservatives, but that wont help either.

    So my advice, quit being dumbasses and phucking get some damn sense.
  63. Profile photo of chagen
    chagen Male 18-29
    1 post
    January 13, 2012 at 2:22 am
    Whether the atheist makes a point or not is irrelevant if he just uses that point to sidestep the question.
  64. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    January 13, 2012 at 3:10 am
    nor is it Mr. Hitchens` mom`s fault that he`s (was) a fagg.
    He wasn`t gay. Nice display of loving your neighbour though.

    My point is when something bad happens, most i-a-b-ers are prone to blame it on the religion everyone loves to hate, but the reality is you guys are just looking for a scapegoat to help you feel better about yourselves.
    Ironically, it`s not atheists that blame God when something bad happens, but believers. Hence the newspaper headlines "Where was God?". Atheists would not blame God, because atheists do not believe in God so that makes no sense.

    What we might blame is the idea that faith is an admirable quality, or the teachings of a book that promote genocide and sex slavery.
  65. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 13, 2012 at 4:27 am
    I just want to say something to anyone commenting on the side of anti-religion. I say this with no contempt, but rather a sincere concern. But doesn`t it bother you how much anger and bitter hatred there is in your comments? just look at the argument from a neutral standpoint, because it astounds me how anti-christian arguments never fail to be mean-spirited, bitter, and full of contempt. Atheists get extremely defensive when christians make a public showing of their faith, or try to integrate it into society, but then retort by doing the exact same. I`ve commented several times speaking of only compassion and common ground, as have others, yet those comments are met almost unanimously with venom and malice. It`s the way of the world I guess, and always will be until we wake up and realize it`s the things each one of us does and says that makes it such an evil place. Like it or not, I`ll be praying for all of you. Lord knows how bad we all need it right now...
  66. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    January 13, 2012 at 8:52 am
    carot091:

    I agree being mean is not necessary, but when powerful politicians in this country make statements that athiests are not citizens and do not have a right to voice their opinions people who identify as athiest get angry and rightfully so. At the same time some christian organizations claim their free speech is being infringed upon by not being able to teach religion in science classes and take it one step further by claiming persucution. The label `christian` really is not a good one since there are no denominations that are in agreement with any one teaching of `christianity`. Christians should go back to identifying themselves as individual denominations (catholic, southern baptist, ect.) but they adopted the term `christian` as a way of pooling their power, this has had a negative effect as well, reasonable christians get lumped in with the Fred Phelps and Pat Robertsons of the world. Go back to specific identification.
  67. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    January 13, 2012 at 9:12 am
    Carot091:

    Watch the video on the link and it will give you an idea of the hate that some christians have towards atheists. Right here
  68. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    7070 posts
    January 13, 2012 at 9:49 am
    almightybob1

    Hitchens was bisexual as a young man. He claimed he had to drop the gay side when he started to lose his looks. He also claimed to have buggered three future tory cabinet ministers while at Oxford.
  69. Profile photo of 2L82Pray
    2L82Pray Female 30-39
    70 posts
    January 13, 2012 at 12:48 pm
    People are the problem with the world. Not God, not Religion, or the lack thereof. I`ve been utterly disgusted lately by the things I`ve seen people write on line. Everyone hates the USA. Americans hate everyone who isn`t American/believe their creed. Atheists hate Christians, Muslims hate Christians, Christians hate everyone. You want answers. Look Inside YOURSELVES! Look into the heart of your neighbor. If you commit an act of violence, cruelty or evil on another YOU ARE EVIL. Not God, not Atheists, not Muslims, not the USA. YOU. As a single individual. You suck. You wonder why God doesn`t stick around and answer prayers? If I were Her I`d have abandoned us a long time ago, too. Humanity is stupid, disgusting and Evil at the core. God didn`t make you do it. You did it. You want to change that, Change Yourself and Help your Neighbor and quit, judging, blaming and vilifying everyone/everything else
  70. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 15, 2012 at 2:13 am
    Otto:
    You bring up some very good points. There are many christians out there who preach hatred toward those who think differently (ateheists), and that kind of attitude makes me sick. The true christian perspective is to love everyone, regardless of what they do or believe because Christ showed mankind that we are all flawed, and that forgiveness is the true key to happiness. as for the whole school curriculum debate, I do kind of see it as infringement of total freedom of speech, but not for the same reasons. I see it like this: it`s impossible for us to use physical evidence to PROVE one way or the other, so to be completely impartial (which is what public schools should strive for) then we should be showing both sides of the story in the context that, "ok kids, this is what some people believe, and this is what others believe. use your judgement to decide what you believe." but of course the debate of religion is too emotionally fueled on both sides for that to happen
  71. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 15, 2012 at 2:18 am
    and the denominations, I can understand the powerplay theory, and to a degree I see that happening. Personally, I consider myself a biblical christian, in that I`ll agree with the views of anyone that agrees with the infallible word of God. There are aspects of every denomination that I disagree with, so I identify myself solely as a christian based on its literal meaning, "follower of the Christ". In addition, it may sound cheesey but I`d like to apologize to you for every hateful thing a christian has every said to you, and I ask that you not hold it against Jesus, weather you believe in him or not, because segregation and anger were not his message. He spent the majority of his time with secularists and the "heathens" of his time, not because he cared about them more or anything like that, but because he did in fact love them just as much, and he saw that he could help them the most. We`re all human beings here, and in the end we should all be extending arms to f
  72. Profile photo of carot091
    carot091 Male 18-29
    10 posts
    January 15, 2012 at 2:38 am
    2L82Pray: You hit the nail on the head. to deviate a little, Christ said it perfectly when he said to "remove the log from your own eye before pointing out the spec in your brother`s eye". If we all just focused on being a better individual, we wouldn`t be hatin` so much on everyone else. Also, I liked your famele descriptive of God, really opens a man`s eyes to the possible realities of the universe, and the fact that, at the end of the day all any of us has is our faith in the beliefs that we hold as individuals. I may not agree with atheism, but I do respect the rights of others to believe what they will.
  73. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    January 16, 2012 at 7:59 am
    Hitchens was bisexual as a young man.
    True. Does the slur that other guy used apply to bi people too? I thought it just meant gay people.

    we should be showing both sides of the story in the context that, "ok kids, this is what some people believe, and this is what others believe. use your judgement to decide what you believe."
    That`s fine, in a theology or a philosophy class. It`s not fine in a science class, because that`s not science.

    at the end of the day all any of us has is our faith in the beliefs that we hold as individuals.
    The atheist position doesn`t require faith. That`s kind of the point.

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