Christian Sermon On Gay Pride

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 5 years ago in Misc

Gene"s Sermon on Gay Pride Day ALL (5m20s) from Auburn Seminary on Vimeo.


Isn"t this the way you want to believe all Christians (or people in general) should think and act?
There are 64 comments:
Male 646
"Isn`t this the way you want to believe all Christians (or people in general) should think and act?"

Huh, that`s not passive-aggressive poo-kicking, is it?

You know, there are different levels in being a Christian. It`s a process, and there are as many things to separate a Christian from full communion with God as there are to separate an atheist.
0
Reply
Male 233
[quote]the passivity was what was morally wrong in that cultural context.[/quote]

That does seem to fit with the other possible meanings of the word.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
Incidentally, if anyone looks into the possible meanings of "arsenokoitai", comes across the suggestion that it refers to men who play a passive role in homosexual sex and wonders why on earth that`s suggested as a possibility - it`s a matter of cultural context.

The verse would have been written in the Roman empire and intended to be read by Romans. Homosexual sex between men was generally considered reasonable and acceptable behaviour in Roman society before it was conquered by Christianity, but it was generally considered unacceptable for a Roman man to play a passive role in it. Not for the sex in particular, but because a Roman man who was a free citizen wasn`t supposed to play a passive role in anything - the passivity was what was morally wrong in that cultural context.
0
Reply
Male 233
@Angilion

Tahnks. will read.
0
Reply
Male 64
What other book is still deciphered as fact that we follow today other than religious text. It`s like saying that cavemen had a better understanding of how the wheel worked, and if you question anything that caveman said, your an idiot. When will we understand that, as a race we do evolve, maybe not as much physically as mentally, to better understand what God really is. Just because some dude said it 2000 years ago, and some other guy thought it was right, doesnt make it right. Open your mind and eventually you can see the wonders of what God really is. Stop putting God in some little box (or Book) and saying thats what god is.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
[quote">Wow, seriously? Gotta love dogma.
Can you link me or tell me what that word is so i can look it up?[/quote">

Sure. The word is arsenokoitai. Well, it`s Greek but that`s the usual English transliteration.

Other than that, the only verse in the NT that might be condemning homosexuality is the one in Romans 1 that appears to be translated and interpreted in much the same way, i.e. the condemnation of homosexuality came first and the passage was made to fit it.

Some links:

Discussion about the arsenokoitai verses

Discussion of the verse in Romans 1
0
Reply
Male 233
[quote]condemnation of homosexuality in the NT relies solely on deciding that a word nobody knows the meaning of means "homosexual"[/quote]

Wow, seriously? Gotta love dogma.
Can you link me or tell me what that word is so i can look it up?
0
Reply
Female 688
[quote]So it`s like telemarketing then? Here brotha, have some Koooool-Aid![/quote]

If that is how you feel then fine. However, I do feel that your mockery and skewed reasoning is completely wrong.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
[quote]@Angilion You don`t live in the US and see how many Christians react toward gay people. How our politics is dominated by Christian`s that invoke their own belief system on an ancient text to decide that gay`s can`t marry. I am not saying that all christians are homophobic but when the policies here are decided based on christian belief systems than it is christians who are largely responsible for the oppression.[/quote]

Please explain to me why you think that a Christian who is homosexual and who preaches that homosexuality is fine in Christianity is responsible for the oppression of LGBTetc people.

Or are you just another bigot who denies the entire concept of individuality and insists that everyone be defined and judged by group identity? If so, you won`t be able to understand what I`m saying because you won`t really be able to differentiate between one person and another.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
[quote]In both the old and new testaments, homosexuality is labeled sin[/quote]

Shall we do this one again?

I can give you chapter, verse and clear reasoning that leads to the conclusion that it is internally consistent for a Christian to conclude that the traditional interpretation is wrong and that homosexuality is actually OK.

Also, the NT only says that homosexuality is a sin in certain English interpretations. For example, are you aware that almost all of the alleged condemnation of homosexuality in the NT relies solely on deciding that a word nobody knows the meaning of means "homosexual"? I`m not joking about that. The belief that homosexuality is wrong came first and those who wanted to believe it wrote their version of the NT to support it. You could just as easily "translate" the word to mean "Canadians" and claim the NT says that being Canadian is a sin.
0
Reply
Male 233
@LillianDulci

Either i`m misunderstanding you or you misunderstood the thrust of my post because i totally agree with you.
Christians like to keep things like the 10 commandments or the parts of leviticus that work for their conservative agenda. Everything else gets filed under "Oh that`s in the OLD testament, you don`t need to worry about that" It`s really pretty irritating.
How do they reconcile the bloodthirsty, jealous god of the old testament with the benevolent father figure of the new? Was god wrong the first time? Is he bipolar?
0
Reply
Male 25,416
1:46... he was totally checking him out
0
Reply
Female 2,674
"Jesus upholds all the laws of his father. All he really does is moderate some of them like how it`s ok to pull your mule out of a ditch even if it`s the sabbath or whatever."

Code words for: Whatever`s in the OT that we don`t like, we`ll get rid of. Whatever`s in the OT that we like, we`ll keep.
0
Reply
Male 233
@tsiemens
[quote]All those shocking things people quote from places like leviticus are meant to show how things were before Christ came to fix all those problems[/quote]

you`re going to want to read your bible more carefully :

[quote]"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."[/quote] Matthew 5:17

Jesus upholds all the laws of his father. All he really does is moderate some of them like how it`s ok to pull your mule out of a ditch even if it`s the sabbath or whatever.
0
Reply
Male 5,811
[quote]My job is to tell people about Christ and invite them to church.[/quote]

So it`s like telemarketing then? Here brotha, have some Koooool-Aid!
0
Reply
Female 688
I partially agree with what he said.

1) I think that compassion and love are the greatest gifts that a Christian can give, and if that means handing out water as a compassionate act, that is the right path.

2) I would actually love it to see GLBT in church worshiping God, and I feel bad that the Church has not allowed these people (and forgive me for using the term "these people" it is a crude terminology) to worship God. It is not my job to judge what is considered moral and what isn`t considered moral. My job is to tell people about Christ and invite them to church. I let God do the rest.

My church would accept a heterosexual couple living together in an unwed relationship, but I seriously doubt that they would accept a homosexual couple. In God`s eyes, there is no difference, and that is extremely sad. God builds bridges, but man tears those bridges down.

I`m sorry for the sermon. I didn`t mean to offend anyone.
0
Reply
Female 41
That was beautiful.
0
Reply
Male 10,440
[quote] Isn`t this the way you want to believe all Christians (or people in general) should think and act? [/quote]
Not quite, but it is a step in the right direction, of course. A big step actually.

...By which I mean, the tolerance and civility is good, but keep your god to yourself.
0
Reply
Male 4,594
That one guy, behind the float, whipped his dick out.
0
Reply
Male 438
"These are old testament laws, eleiminated by the new testament."

Well then Christians can just get rid of the Old Testament then right? Why even have a Bible with the Old Testament if it is not relevant....oh that`s right it`s because Jesus said he did not come to change the law...and some Christians say he did anyway, and some say he didn`t....it`s all BS.
0
Reply
Female 170
SmagBoy1: "Where would Christ call for *that*? You can`t use the NT to overwrite the OT, and then use the OT to condemn gays as sinners"

Thank you. Finally someone who gets it as well. Jesus invited everyone in, he didn`t judge! The only ones he "hated" were the Pharisees, because they believed themselves to be oh so right and holy, and were drawing people to a false view of God, condemning people when in truth, God`s the only one who can judge!
Jesus` message was love first, then faith and hope. It wasn`t condemn, judge and hate...
0
Reply
Female 72
That was very profound, I agree. Why can I marry and divorce at will ,but my Uncle and his boyfriends of 20 years will never have the same rights afforded by our nation, that is supposed to be for all citizens of the United States. If you don`t like gay marriage then marry someone of the opposite sex, if you dislike the way they live their lives you do not have to speak to them or be friends. Worry about your own and leave the rest be.
0
Reply
Male 4,431
tsiemens, you can pick and choose all you want, but quote something legitimate from the New Testament that allows you to judge gays as sinners? That allows ANYONE to judge ANYONE? Jesus accepted a murderer at the very end, yet some Christians would use a single line in the NT to condemn homosexuals?! A drating murderer?! Some use the OT and NT to justify writing legislation to condemn gays, to force gays to live with fewer rights, less justice, greater discrimination. Where`s the justification for that? Where would Christ call for *that*? You can`t use the NT to overwrite the OT, and then use the OT to condemn gays as sinners.
0
Reply
Male 4,431
Hey, CoolerThanMe, why aren`t you out there oppressing women, being racist against blacks, attacking people of other religions and stoning criminals (you know, like non-virgins who get married, folks who lie against their parents, etc.)? All were prescribed over and over in the Bible, and the Bible was used to not only advocate but to justify those actions--generally by white males. Yet, amazingly, society has decided all of those discrimination are now unacceptable. How is it that you can`t see that discrimination against and prejudice against homosexuality and homosexuals is exactly the same thing?
0
Reply
Male 812
That was no sermon! That was actually sensical!
0
Reply
Male 197
I was really moved until he got to "...we LBGT people...". I was hoping it was a straight reverend without a personal "dog in the fight" so to speak. Nonetheless, his sermon was still thoroughly powerful. As to being the oppressor offering a cup of water to the oppressed; This is explained by the preceding line, "You are representing the community of Christians, and Jews, and Muslims who are 95% the source of the oppression...". It is not meant as a personal atonement to the LBGT community but a gesture of compassion toward another human being from another human being.

Simple acts of kindness can do wonders.
0
Reply
Male 514
Quoting constantly from the old testament to disprove the love of God and make him out to be crazy is not helpful. All those shocking things people quote from places like leviticus are meant to show how things were before Christ came to fix all those problems. Quote me something from the new testament then we`ll talk.
0
Reply
Male 307
It is always good when Christians actual follow what Jesus apparently teached(love and friendship and all that) instead of the message that some people have twisted and manipulated to give themselves more power.
0
Reply
Male 514
Jpfu220, 2 can play at the Bible game. Do you eat pork? Wear mixed fabrics? Shave? Wear gold? Eat prawns? All of these are forbidden in Leviticus yet we`ve done away with most of them, why can`t we do the same with this?

These are old testament laws, eleiminated by the new testament.
0
Reply
Male 98
@Frankii
Just because some Christians aren`t willing to admit that all the things you mentioned are still sins and need to be forgiven for. Doesn`t mean that being gay is less of a sin in God`s eyes.
0
Reply
Male 4
@Solvent
What Lesbians do you know cause the ones i know are... smokin.
Besides, what does it matter if you find them attractive or not? You`re not their type. They not fo`you.
0
Reply
Male 2,841
Why aren`t real lesbians ever attractive?
0
Reply
Male 51
I am a heterosexual male, and that- that was beautiful.
0
Reply
Female 437
Jpfu220, 2 can play at the Bible game. Do you eat pork? Wear mixed fabrics? Shave? Wear gold? Eat prawns? All of these are forbidden in Leviticus yet we`ve done away with most of them, why can`t we do the same with this?
0
Reply
Male 234
@Angilion You don`t live in the US and see how many Christians react toward gay people. How our politics is dominated by Christian`s that invoke their own belief system on an ancient text to decide that gay`s can`t marry. I am not saying that all christians are homophobic but when the policies here are decided based on christian belief systems than it is christians who are largely responsible for the oppression.
0
Reply
Female 2,228
"You heterosexual people, we need you desperately."

Reporting for duty, most righteous padre. *Salutes* Don`t start the revolution without me. :-)
0
Reply
Male 1,351
That was absolutely fantastic. I hope a good deal more of that congregation listened to him than the mere half dozen or so the camera followed during the clip.
0
Reply
Male 369
I`ve got an apprentice at work. Utterly useless, but once every blue moon he get`s it right. So I need to praise him for doing his job correctly for a change?
In other words, it`s kinda sad that we feel like this should be praise-worthy. As a great philosopher once said "Let`s just be most excellent to each other"...
Oh, and jpfu220? "I hate the sin, and I love the sinner." Do you know just how insulting that comment is? Practically screams `I hate what you do, but because I`m soooo noble, I can put up with you`... Your god must be so proud...
0
Reply
Male 38,510

about jpfu220`s comments...

"Gods Justice" 2 Kings 2:23-24
God sends a couple of bears to maul 42 children to death for teasing a bald guy.

"Gods Freedom"
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 & Exodus 22:19
& Deuteronomy 17:2-5 & Deuteronomy 13:7-12
Believe or die {so much for freedom of choice or free will}

Deuteronomy 13:13-19
Killing the entire town if a single person has a differant religion.

The whole "Do it my way or die" is really not what I call justice or freedom.
0
Reply
Male 75
Outstanding.
0
Reply
Male 4
Nice to see that some Christians are starting to wake up and realize that hate and fear mongering doesn`t work forever. A bit late if you ask me, but better late than never.
Basically just because you see it as a sin, doesn`t make it so. Besides the whole concept of homosexuality being a sin is old world, its outdated, and in reality it`s wrong to think of something beyond our control as a sin. I and those like me did not choose it, so why damn us for it?
Like this man said, it`s a matter of justice.
0
Reply
Male 72
jpfu220. who i am is not sin. open your mind and educate your self. read books other than the bible. you are the one that needs saving. and people like you. that`s just my belief. knowledge is power. learn new ways of thinking, because you`re thinking like a child. not to sound too harsh, but it`s true :-/
0
Reply
Male 15,832
If you think you know how all Christians (or people in general) should think and act, doesn`t that make you an arrogant prick??
0
Reply
Male 65
AS a follower of Christ, i understand the need to reach out to people of the gay community. i understand the need for compassion, and i agree with it. however.... he says "it is God`s dream..." I strongly disagree sir. In both the old and new testaments, homosexuality is labeled sin. God hates sin. All of it, lying, stealing, murder, taking His name in vain, and homosexuality...all sin, all equally bad in God`s view. I do want justice. I do want freedom for people. The only difference is I want God`s justice and I want God`s freedom. Freedom from sin. I hate the sin, and I love the sinner..because hey, i`m just as broken as the rest of you guys.
0
Reply
Male 265
Not a Christian. That being said I would like to attend his congregation just to hear sermons like that.
0
Reply
Female 2,525
Nice to see that some Christians still believe in being Christlike.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
[quote]Just because you haven`t personally beaten down any gay folks, doesn`t mean your little group isn`t to blame.[/quote]

Christians aren`t a "little group" by any stretch of the imagination.

I`m an atheist.

You are wrong on every count. Factually wrong, morally wrong, just plain wrong.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
[quote]Not all Nazis were stuffing people into ovens, but we hold all Nazis responsible for their crimes.[/quote]

You do. I don`t. I hold each Nazi responsible for their own crimes. I hold Nazis with authority partially responsible for crimes committed under their authority. But it`s still a bad example because there weren`t any Nazis who spoke and acted against Nazi oppression of various groups of people, so there aren`t any Nazis you can compare with these Christians.

[quote]Not all Muslim fundamentalists were responsible for 911, but Muslim fundamentalists are held accountable.[/quote]

Same as for Nazis.

[quote]Likewise not all christians have oppressed the gay community, but again, we hold christianity responsible.[/quote]

And you`re morally wrong to do so. You are being bigoted.

limit reached
0
Reply
Male 438
"You don`t need to feel guilty for the actions of other people who you have no control over. That`s not fair."

This is exactly why the idea of original sin is absurd.
0
Reply
Male 508
@Angilion Not all Nazis were stuffing people into ovens, but we hold all Nazis responsible for their crimes. Not all Muslim fundamentalists were responsible for 911, but Muslim fundamentalists are held accountable. Likewise not all christians have oppressed the gay community, but again, we hold christianity responsible. Just because you haven`t personally beaten down any gay folks, doesn`t mean your little group isn`t to blame.
0
Reply
Male 233
@hi2pi

instead of saying "amen" try saying "fo shizzle J Chrizzle"

it means pretty much the same thing lol
0
Reply
Male 233
sometimes i realize that we live in the 21st century, 2012 and gay people don`t have the same rights i do

it`s shocking
0
Reply
Male 15,510
"Christians and Jews and Muslims"

Why they always leave us Jedis apart
0
Reply
Male 736
Amen.
For all the U.S.-bashing that goes on (and to which I`ve contributed especially during the bellicose years of W) it`s important to remember that the US has also provided the world with vital strains of liberalism, for which I am thankful.
Amen.
0
Reply
Male 1,754
Good sermon. Good idea and good people.
0
Reply
Female 262
I thought that was absolutely beautiful. If only all religion was like this, then we`d have no problem. @Angilion - he meant "oppressors" in a metaphorical sense.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
Hmm...a caveat to that last post. "Messiah" in the Christian sense, with the added bits of redeemer of sins, etc. Strictly speaking, a Jew or Muslim could regard Jesus as Messiah, depending on how the word is defined.
0
Reply
Male 4,396
That was wonderful. Just wonderful. Not sure if I would drink from that type of cup though from a stranger. But I love the idea.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
[quote]hey look real christians! very rare breed indeed[/quote]

"real" does not mean "people I agree with". If someone has faith in the existence of the Abrahamic god and worships them, plus has faith in Jesus as the Messiah, they are a real Christian. Anything else is an optional extra, an interpretation. So, for example, CrakrJak is a real Christian. The fact that I think they`re not just morally wrong but theologically wrong doesn`t change that. No doubt they think the same about me.
0
Reply
Male 12,365
Nice sermon, but I disagree with him calling people oppressors when they are not. That is unfair. The Christians who were in that church were most unlikely to be oppressors, let alone the ones who walked the streets giving out cups of water.

Basically, I reject group identity especially when it`s applied to people who aren`t at all part of the group in question. So I reject the core part of his message. You don`t need to feel guilty for the actions of other people who you have no control over. That`s not fair.
0
Reply
Male 1,011
hey look real christians! very rare breed indeed
0
Reply
Male 4,431
Wow, that`s was sneakily powerful. I kept wanting him to talk about other types of justices denied by religious doctrine that have sense become "acceptable" to the religious (like racism, women`s rights, etc.). But he didn`t. And, in the end, with the video, the images, the words, his message was more than powerful enough. And it was awesome! :-)
0
Reply
Female 583
...that made my pooty night infinitely better.
0
Reply
Female 8,044
Link: Christian Sermon On Gay Pride [Rate Link] - Isn`t this the way you want to believe all Christians (or people in general) should think and act?
0
Reply