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Date: 01/26/12 05:01 PM

64 Responses to Christian Sermon On Gay Pride

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8033 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 4:06 pm
    Link: Christian Sermon On Gay Pride - Isn`t this the way you want to believe all Christians (or people in general) should think and act?
  2. Profile photo of FeeFee
    FeeFee Female 18-29
    583 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 5:10 pm
    ...that made my pooty night infinitely better.
  3. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 5:14 pm
    Wow, that`s was sneakily powerful. I kept wanting him to talk about other types of justices denied by religious doctrine that have sense become "acceptable" to the religious (like racism, women`s rights, etc.). But he didn`t. And, in the end, with the video, the images, the words, his message was more than powerful enough. And it was awesome! :-)
  4. Profile photo of Norris
    Norris Male 18-29
    1011 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 5:22 pm
    hey look real christians! very rare breed indeed
  5. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 5:39 pm
    Nice sermon, but I disagree with him calling people oppressors when they are not. That is unfair. The Christians who were in that church were most unlikely to be oppressors, let alone the ones who walked the streets giving out cups of water.

    Basically, I reject group identity especially when it`s applied to people who aren`t at all part of the group in question. So I reject the core part of his message. You don`t need to feel guilty for the actions of other people who you have no control over. That`s not fair.
  6. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 5:43 pm
    hey look real christians! very rare breed indeed

    "real" does not mean "people I agree with". If someone has faith in the existence of the Abrahamic god and worships them, plus has faith in Jesus as the Messiah, they are a real Christian. Anything else is an optional extra, an interpretation. So, for example, CrakrJak is a real Christian. The fact that I think they`re not just morally wrong but theologically wrong doesn`t change that. No doubt they think the same about me.
  7. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 5:49 pm
    That was wonderful. Just wonderful. Not sure if I would drink from that type of cup though from a stranger. But I love the idea.
  8. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 5:50 pm
    Hmm...a caveat to that last post. "Messiah" in the Christian sense, with the added bits of redeemer of sins, etc. Strictly speaking, a Jew or Muslim could regard Jesus as Messiah, depending on how the word is defined.
  9. Profile photo of FemBot
    FemBot Female 18-29
    262 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 6:00 pm
    I thought that was absolutely beautiful. If only all religion was like this, then we`d have no problem. @Angilion - he meant "oppressors" in a metaphorical sense.
  10. Profile photo of swoop408
    swoop408 Male 18-29
    1754 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 6:16 pm
    Good sermon. Good idea and good people.
  11. Profile photo of hi2pi
    hi2pi Male 30-39
    736 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 6:25 pm
    Amen.
    For all the U.S.-bashing that goes on (and to which I`ve contributed especially during the bellicose years of W) it`s important to remember that the US has also provided the world with vital strains of liberalism, for which I am thankful.
    Amen.
  12. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 6:43 pm
    "Christians and Jews and Muslims"

    Why they always leave us Jedis apart
  13. Profile photo of ReBoot
    ReBoot Male 18-29
    233 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 6:54 pm
    sometimes i realize that we live in the 21st century, 2012 and gay people don`t have the same rights i do

    it`s shocking
  14. Profile photo of ReBoot
    ReBoot Male 18-29
    233 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 6:56 pm
    @hi2pi

    instead of saying "amen" try saying "fo shizzle J Chrizzle"

    it means pretty much the same thing lol
  15. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    509 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 6:58 pm
    @Angilion Not all Nazis were stuffing people into ovens, but we hold all Nazis responsible for their crimes. Not all Muslim fundamentalists were responsible for 911, but Muslim fundamentalists are held accountable. Likewise not all christians have oppressed the gay community, but again, we hold christianity responsible. Just because you haven`t personally beaten down any gay folks, doesn`t mean your little group isn`t to blame.
  16. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 7:25 pm
    "You don`t need to feel guilty for the actions of other people who you have no control over. That`s not fair."

    This is exactly why the idea of original sin is absurd.
  17. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 8:16 pm
    Not all Nazis were stuffing people into ovens, but we hold all Nazis responsible for their crimes.

    You do. I don`t. I hold each Nazi responsible for their own crimes. I hold Nazis with authority partially responsible for crimes committed under their authority. But it`s still a bad example because there weren`t any Nazis who spoke and acted against Nazi oppression of various groups of people, so there aren`t any Nazis you can compare with these Christians.

    Not all Muslim fundamentalists were responsible for 911, but Muslim fundamentalists are held accountable.

    Same as for Nazis.

    Likewise not all christians have oppressed the gay community, but again, we hold christianity responsible.

    And you`re morally wrong to do so. You are being bigoted.

    limit reached
  18. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 8:18 pm
    Just because you haven`t personally beaten down any gay folks, doesn`t mean your little group isn`t to blame.

    Christians aren`t a "little group" by any stretch of the imagination.

    I`m an atheist.

    You are wrong on every count. Factually wrong, morally wrong, just plain wrong.
  19. Profile photo of zombunny
    zombunny Female 18-29
    2525 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 8:27 pm
    Nice to see that some Christians still believe in being Christlike.
  20. Profile photo of Wowummwow
    Wowummwow Male 18-29
    265 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 8:32 pm
    Not a Christian. That being said I would like to attend his congregation just to hear sermons like that.
  21. Profile photo of jpfu220
    jpfu220 Male 18-29
    65 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 9:09 pm
    AS a follower of Christ, i understand the need to reach out to people of the gay community. i understand the need for compassion, and i agree with it. however.... he says "it is God`s dream..." I strongly disagree sir. In both the old and new testaments, homosexuality is labeled sin. God hates sin. All of it, lying, stealing, murder, taking His name in vain, and homosexuality...all sin, all equally bad in God`s view. I do want justice. I do want freedom for people. The only difference is I want God`s justice and I want God`s freedom. Freedom from sin. I hate the sin, and I love the sinner..because hey, i`m just as broken as the rest of you guys.
  22. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 9:11 pm
    If you think you know how all Christians (or people in general) should think and act, doesn`t that make you an arrogant prick??
  23. Profile photo of joeblowsglas
    joeblowsglas Male 30-39
    72 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 9:47 pm
    jpfu220. who i am is not sin. open your mind and educate your self. read books other than the bible. you are the one that needs saving. and people like you. that`s just my belief. knowledge is power. learn new ways of thinking, because you`re thinking like a child. not to sound too harsh, but it`s true :-/
  24. Profile photo of Cleric_Drake
    Cleric_Drake Male 18-29
    4 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 9:50 pm
    Nice to see that some Christians are starting to wake up and realize that hate and fear mongering doesn`t work forever. A bit late if you ask me, but better late than never.
    Basically just because you see it as a sin, doesn`t make it so. Besides the whole concept of homosexuality being a sin is old world, its outdated, and in reality it`s wrong to think of something beyond our control as a sin. I and those like me did not choose it, so why damn us for it?
    Like this man said, it`s a matter of justice.
  25. Profile photo of 7less7
    7less7 Male 18-29
    75 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 9:58 pm
    Outstanding.
  26. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36176 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    about jpfu220`s comments...

    "Gods Justice" 2 Kings 2:23-24
    God sends a couple of bears to maul 42 children to death for teasing a bald guy.

    "Gods Freedom"
    2 Chronicles 15:12-13 & Exodus 22:19
    & Deuteronomy 17:2-5 & Deuteronomy 13:7-12
    Believe or die {so much for freedom of choice or free will}

    Deuteronomy 13:13-19
    Killing the entire town if a single person has a differant religion.

    The whole "Do it my way or die" is really not what I call justice or freedom.
  27. Profile photo of sourkraut
    sourkraut Male 40-49
    357 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 10:28 pm
    I`ve got an apprentice at work. Utterly useless, but once every blue moon he get`s it right. So I need to praise him for doing his job correctly for a change?
    In other words, it`s kinda sad that we feel like this should be praise-worthy. As a great philosopher once said "Let`s just be most excellent to each other"...
    Oh, and jpfu220? "I hate the sin, and I love the sinner." Do you know just how insulting that comment is? Practically screams `I hate what you do, but because I`m soooo noble, I can put up with you`... Your god must be so proud...
  28. Profile photo of howlingwolf
    howlingwolf Male 18-29
    1351 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 10:36 pm
    That was absolutely fantastic. I hope a good deal more of that congregation listened to him than the mere half dozen or so the camera followed during the clip.
  29. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 10:58 pm
    "You heterosexual people, we need you desperately."

    Reporting for duty, most righteous padre. *Salutes* Don`t start the revolution without me. :-)
  30. Profile photo of grindinblade
    grindinblade Male 18-29
    234 posts
    January 26, 2012 at 11:44 pm
    @Angilion You don`t live in the US and see how many Christians react toward gay people. How our politics is dominated by Christian`s that invoke their own belief system on an ancient text to decide that gay`s can`t marry. I am not saying that all christians are homophobic but when the policies here are decided based on christian belief systems than it is christians who are largely responsible for the oppression.
  31. Profile photo of Frankii
    Frankii Female 18-29
    437 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 12:30 am
    Jpfu220, 2 can play at the Bible game. Do you eat pork? Wear mixed fabrics? Shave? Wear gold? Eat prawns? All of these are forbidden in Leviticus yet we`ve done away with most of them, why can`t we do the same with this?
  32. Profile photo of agl126
    agl126 Male 18-29
    51 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 1:05 am
    I am a heterosexual male, and that- that was beautiful.
  33. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 1:25 am
    Why aren`t real lesbians ever attractive?
  34. Profile photo of Cleric_Drake
    Cleric_Drake Male 18-29
    4 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 1:51 am
    @Solvent
    What Lesbians do you know cause the ones i know are... smokin.
    Besides, what does it matter if you find them attractive or not? You`re not their type. They not fo`you.
  35. Profile photo of CoolerThanMe
    CoolerThanMe Male 18-29
    98 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 2:04 am
    @Frankii
    Just because some Christians aren`t willing to admit that all the things you mentioned are still sins and need to be forgiven for. Doesn`t mean that being gay is less of a sin in God`s eyes.
  36. Profile photo of tsiemens
    tsiemens Male 30-39
    515 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 2:45 am
    Jpfu220, 2 can play at the Bible game. Do you eat pork? Wear mixed fabrics? Shave? Wear gold? Eat prawns? All of these are forbidden in Leviticus yet we`ve done away with most of them, why can`t we do the same with this?

    These are old testament laws, eleiminated by the new testament.
  37. Profile photo of thenedman
    thenedman Male 18-29
    294 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 2:48 am
    It is always good when Christians actual follow what Jesus apparently teached(love and friendship and all that) instead of the message that some people have twisted and manipulated to give themselves more power.
  38. Profile photo of tsiemens
    tsiemens Male 30-39
    515 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 2:50 am
    Quoting constantly from the old testament to disprove the love of God and make him out to be crazy is not helpful. All those shocking things people quote from places like leviticus are meant to show how things were before Christ came to fix all those problems. Quote me something from the new testament then we`ll talk.
  39. Profile photo of Zymotical
    Zymotical Male 18-29
    198 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 3:11 am
    I was really moved until he got to "...we LBGT people...". I was hoping it was a straight reverend without a personal "dog in the fight" so to speak. Nonetheless, his sermon was still thoroughly powerful. As to being the oppressor offering a cup of water to the oppressed; This is explained by the preceding line, "You are representing the community of Christians, and Jews, and Muslims who are 95% the source of the oppression...". It is not meant as a personal atonement to the LBGT community but a gesture of compassion toward another human being from another human being.

    Simple acts of kindness can do wonders.
  40. Profile photo of Intaresting
    Intaresting Male 18-29
    812 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 3:11 am
    That was no sermon! That was actually sensical!
  41. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 3:34 am
    Hey, CoolerThanMe, why aren`t you out there oppressing women, being racist against blacks, attacking people of other religions and stoning criminals (you know, like non-virgins who get married, folks who lie against their parents, etc.)? All were prescribed over and over in the Bible, and the Bible was used to not only advocate but to justify those actions--generally by white males. Yet, amazingly, society has decided all of those discrimination are now unacceptable. How is it that you can`t see that discrimination against and prejudice against homosexuality and homosexuals is exactly the same thing?
  42. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 3:39 am
    tsiemens, you can pick and choose all you want, but quote something legitimate from the New Testament that allows you to judge gays as sinners? That allows ANYONE to judge ANYONE? Jesus accepted a murderer at the very end, yet some Christians would use a single line in the NT to condemn homosexuals?! A drating murderer?! Some use the OT and NT to justify writing legislation to condemn gays, to force gays to live with fewer rights, less justice, greater discrimination. Where`s the justification for that? Where would Christ call for *that*? You can`t use the NT to overwrite the OT, and then use the OT to condemn gays as sinners.
  43. Profile photo of freebee
    freebee Female 30-39
    72 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 6:26 am
    That was very profound, I agree. Why can I marry and divorce at will ,but my Uncle and his boyfriends of 20 years will never have the same rights afforded by our nation, that is supposed to be for all citizens of the United States. If you don`t like gay marriage then marry someone of the opposite sex, if you dislike the way they live their lives you do not have to speak to them or be friends. Worry about your own and leave the rest be.
  44. Profile photo of Funkytoes
    Funkytoes Female 18-29
    170 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 7:39 am
    SmagBoy1: "Where would Christ call for *that*? You can`t use the NT to overwrite the OT, and then use the OT to condemn gays as sinners"

    Thank you. Finally someone who gets it as well. Jesus invited everyone in, he didn`t judge! The only ones he "hated" were the Pharisees, because they believed themselves to be oh so right and holy, and were drawing people to a false view of God, condemning people when in truth, God`s the only one who can judge!
    Jesus` message was love first, then faith and hope. It wasn`t condemn, judge and hate...
  45. Profile photo of Otto67
    Otto67 Male 40-49
    438 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 9:13 am
    "These are old testament laws, eleiminated by the new testament."

    Well then Christians can just get rid of the Old Testament then right? Why even have a Bible with the Old Testament if it is not relevant....oh that`s right it`s because Jesus said he did not come to change the law...and some Christians say he did anyway, and some say he didn`t....it`s all BS.
  46. Profile photo of pmarren
    pmarren Male 40-49
    4575 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 9:23 am
    That one guy, behind the float, whipped his dick out.
  47. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 9:55 am
    Isn`t this the way you want to believe all Christians (or people in general) should think and act?
    Not quite, but it is a step in the right direction, of course. A big step actually.

    ...By which I mean, the tolerance and civility is good, but keep your god to yourself.
  48. Profile photo of bedbugsbite
    bedbugsbite Female 18-29
    41 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 10:45 am
    That was beautiful.
  49. Profile photo of maggierose78
    maggierose78 Female 18-29
    688 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 11:13 am
    I partially agree with what he said.

    1) I think that compassion and love are the greatest gifts that a Christian can give, and if that means handing out water as a compassionate act, that is the right path.

    2) I would actually love it to see GLBT in church worshiping God, and I feel bad that the Church has not allowed these people (and forgive me for using the term "these people" it is a crude terminology) to worship God. It is not my job to judge what is considered moral and what isn`t considered moral. My job is to tell people about Christ and invite them to church. I let God do the rest.

    My church would accept a heterosexual couple living together in an unwed relationship, but I seriously doubt that they would accept a homosexual couple. In God`s eyes, there is no difference, and that is extremely sad. God builds bridges, but man tears those bridges down.

    I`m sorry for the sermon. I didn`t mean to offend anyone.
  50. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 11:26 am
    My job is to tell people about Christ and invite them to church.

    So it`s like telemarketing then? Here brotha, have some Koooool-Aid!
  51. Profile photo of ReBoot
    ReBoot Male 18-29
    233 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    @tsiemens
    All those shocking things people quote from places like leviticus are meant to show how things were before Christ came to fix all those problems

    you`re going to want to read your bible more carefully :

    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." Matthew 5:17

    Jesus upholds all the laws of his father. All he really does is moderate some of them like how it`s ok to pull your mule out of a ditch even if it`s the sabbath or whatever.
  52. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 12:41 pm
    "Jesus upholds all the laws of his father. All he really does is moderate some of them like how it`s ok to pull your mule out of a ditch even if it`s the sabbath or whatever."

    Code words for: Whatever`s in the OT that we don`t like, we`ll get rid of. Whatever`s in the OT that we like, we`ll keep.
  53. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25405 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 1:15 pm
    1:46... he was totally checking him out
  54. Profile photo of ReBoot
    ReBoot Male 18-29
    233 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 4:00 pm
    @LillianDulci

    Either i`m misunderstanding you or you misunderstood the thrust of my post because i totally agree with you.
    Christians like to keep things like the 10 commandments or the parts of leviticus that work for their conservative agenda. Everything else gets filed under "Oh that`s in the OLD testament, you don`t need to worry about that" It`s really pretty irritating.
    How do they reconcile the bloodthirsty, jealous god of the old testament with the benevolent father figure of the new? Was god wrong the first time? Is he bipolar?
  55. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 4:46 pm
    In both the old and new testaments, homosexuality is labeled sin

    Shall we do this one again?

    I can give you chapter, verse and clear reasoning that leads to the conclusion that it is internally consistent for a Christian to conclude that the traditional interpretation is wrong and that homosexuality is actually OK.

    Also, the NT only says that homosexuality is a sin in certain English interpretations. For example, are you aware that almost all of the alleged condemnation of homosexuality in the NT relies solely on deciding that a word nobody knows the meaning of means "homosexual"? I`m not joking about that. The belief that homosexuality is wrong came first and those who wanted to believe it wrote their version of the NT to support it. You could just as easily "translate" the word to mean "Canadians" and claim the NT says that being Canadian is a sin.
  56. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 4:50 pm
    @Angilion You don`t live in the US and see how many Christians react toward gay people. How our politics is dominated by Christian`s that invoke their own belief system on an ancient text to decide that gay`s can`t marry. I am not saying that all christians are homophobic but when the policies here are decided based on christian belief systems than it is christians who are largely responsible for the oppression.

    Please explain to me why you think that a Christian who is homosexual and who preaches that homosexuality is fine in Christianity is responsible for the oppression of LGBTetc people.

    Or are you just another bigot who denies the entire concept of individuality and insists that everyone be defined and judged by group identity? If so, you won`t be able to understand what I`m saying because you won`t really be able to differentiate between one person and another.
  57. Profile photo of maggierose78
    maggierose78 Female 18-29
    688 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 5:24 pm
    So it`s like telemarketing then? Here brotha, have some Koooool-Aid!

    If that is how you feel then fine. However, I do feel that your mockery and skewed reasoning is completely wrong.
  58. Profile photo of ReBoot
    ReBoot Male 18-29
    233 posts
    January 27, 2012 at 6:35 pm
    condemnation of homosexuality in the NT relies solely on deciding that a word nobody knows the meaning of means "homosexual"

    Wow, seriously? Gotta love dogma.
    Can you link me or tell me what that word is so i can look it up?
  59. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 28, 2012 at 2:43 am
    [quote">Wow, seriously? Gotta love dogma.
    Can you link me or tell me what that word is so i can look it up?[/quote">

    Sure. The word is arsenokoitai. Well, it`s Greek but that`s the usual English transliteration.

    Other than that, the only verse in the NT that might be condemning homosexuality is the one in Romans 1 that appears to be translated and interpreted in much the same way, i.e. the condemnation of homosexuality came first and the passage was made to fit it.

    Some links:

    Discussion about the arsenokoitai verses

    Discussion of the verse in Romans 1
  60. Profile photo of Shaunoli
    Shaunoli Male 30-39
    64 posts
    January 28, 2012 at 10:52 am
    What other book is still deciphered as fact that we follow today other than religious text. It`s like saying that cavemen had a better understanding of how the wheel worked, and if you question anything that caveman said, your an idiot. When will we understand that, as a race we do evolve, maybe not as much physically as mentally, to better understand what God really is. Just because some dude said it 2000 years ago, and some other guy thought it was right, doesnt make it right. Open your mind and eventually you can see the wonders of what God really is. Stop putting God in some little box (or Book) and saying thats what god is.
  61. Profile photo of ReBoot
    ReBoot Male 18-29
    233 posts
    January 28, 2012 at 2:33 pm
    @Angilion

    Tahnks. will read.
  62. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 28, 2012 at 7:45 pm
    Incidentally, if anyone looks into the possible meanings of "arsenokoitai", comes across the suggestion that it refers to men who play a passive role in homosexual sex and wonders why on earth that`s suggested as a possibility - it`s a matter of cultural context.

    The verse would have been written in the Roman empire and intended to be read by Romans. Homosexual sex between men was generally considered reasonable and acceptable behaviour in Roman society before it was conquered by Christianity, but it was generally considered unacceptable for a Roman man to play a passive role in it. Not for the sex in particular, but because a Roman man who was a free citizen wasn`t supposed to play a passive role in anything - the passivity was what was morally wrong in that cultural context.
  63. Profile photo of ReBoot
    ReBoot Male 18-29
    233 posts
    January 29, 2012 at 12:08 am
    the passivity was what was morally wrong in that cultural context.

    That does seem to fit with the other possible meanings of the word.
  64. Profile photo of mcboozerilla
    mcboozerilla Male 30-39
    646 posts
    February 8, 2012 at 7:23 am
    "Isn`t this the way you want to believe all Christians (or people in general) should think and act?"

    Huh, that`s not passive-aggressive poo-kicking, is it?

    You know, there are different levels in being a Christian. It`s a process, and there are as many things to separate a Christian from full communion with God as there are to separate an atheist.

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