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Category: Science
Date: 01/11/12 09:01 AM

102 Responses to A Logical Facebook Argument About Abortion? [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of eugenius
    eugenius Male 30-39
    1620 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:02 am
    Link: A Logical Facebook Argument About Abortion? - INCONCEIVABLE!
  2. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:11 am
    Edge: Samantha.
  3. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:11 am
    Thats hilarious!
  4. Profile photo of UDUMASS
    UDUMASS Male 30-39
    60 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:13 am
    I guess the posters are just a bunch of cells too. Wonder if there would be a problem in making them into dead cells?
  5. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:17 am
    I always find that argument rather insulting. So all a woman has to do to become a mother is have a fertilized egg in her at some point in time? It has nothing to do with raising a child at all? Yeah okay. And I`m sure she`d tell women who have miscarriages that they`re mothers of dead babies too.
  6. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:18 am
    I guess the posters are just a bunch of cells too. Wonder if there would be a problem in making them into dead cells?

    That`s why the reduction from life of a fully developed person to life in cells is a fallacy of division.
  7. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:20 am

    I have never heard a logical argument in favor of abortion.
  8. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:24 am
    I have never heard a logical argument in favor of abortion.
    What a coincidence! Neither have I!
  9. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:35 am
    I have never heard a logical argument in favor of abortion.

    A young girl is raped and could have health problems carrying it to term, or will have problems completing her education due to pregnancy, or will face ridicule, all because of something illegal that happened to her.
  10. Profile photo of bedbugsbite
    bedbugsbite Female 18-29
    41 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:35 am
    And I have never heard a logical argument against abortion as a legal medical procedure. I will never forget the ugly history that led us to allow abortions in our hospitals. Consider it a necessary evil if you must, but don`t try to interfere with a woman`s ability to choose. I shutter every time I see a woman fighting against her fellow women in her quest for independent life.
  11. Profile photo of koolmole
    koolmole Male 18-29
    176 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:36 am
    "I have never heard a logical argument in favor of abortion. " You must be arguing for monkeys
  12. Profile photo of koolmole
    koolmole Male 18-29
    176 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:37 am
    *with monkeys
  13. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31795 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:40 am
    Abortion removes the DNA of people who are pro-abortion from the gene pool. Win!
  14. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:43 am
    I guess for us guys it`s like: "when you masturbate you don`t become a somewhat relieved guy - you just become the somewhat relieved father to 250 million dead babies"

    Adolf Hitler - eat your heart out.
  15. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:46 am

    @koolmole - nope, not arguing with monkeys.
    All the diatribe I`ve heard in favor of abortion boils down to "cause I want to". I have not heard a logical statement that agued in favor of it.

    I don`t mean the rare "mother will die if she doesn`t" situation. I mean the run-of-the-mill, average type abortion-for-convenience.

    Do YOU have a reason in favor of it that could withstand the glare of rational thought?
  16. Profile photo of TruTenrMan
    TruTenrMan Male 30-39
    2553 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:47 am
    Skin cells aren`t sapient life. Argument is invalid.
  17. Profile photo of wickedsngr
    wickedsngr Female 18-29
    457 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:52 am
    I have a problem with abortion as a birth control alternative. But in cases of incest, rape, or fatality of the mother, then yes, it is something that should be given consideration. But if a woman is having one just because she couldn`t keep her legs closed or use birth control, then no... own up to your responsibilities.
  18. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 9:56 am
    Yes, Gerry--I do.

    An individual has the right to life (and by corollary, their bodies) and the pursuit of happiness; an abortion does not infringe on the rights of anyone else:

    A fetus, by its nature, has no rights. If it had rights, this would imply that it has rights that supersede its mother i.e. it would imply that a parasite has rights that supersedes the rights of its host. A fetus is, quite literally, a parasite that feeds off of its mother; it is not a human individual--it is a POTENTIAL individual. The anti-abortionists context-drop and equate a potential human being with an actual one, when they`re extremely different things.

    If abortion were made illegal it would imply that human beings have no right to their own bodies, and would have a moral obligation to actualize fetuses; this would imply that we would also have a moral and legal duty to make the conditions for raising a baby i.e. we would be committing a crime whenever we weren`t in bed making
  19. Profile photo of reefaleaf420
    reefaleaf420 Male 18-29
    89 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:02 am
    wickedsngr couldnt have said it better.

  20. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:03 am
    ...babies. It`s not too ridiculous, if you think about it. On a moral level, outlawing abortion is fundamentally the same thing as forcing people to procreate. If you have no right to exist for your own happiness and well-being, then it seems to me that if the government can initiate force to make a woman stay pregnant, there`s no logical reason why they wouldn`t be allowed to also force her to conceive more fetuses. She doesn`t have a right to her own body and pursuit of happiness, after all--since she`s already forced to carry a fetus against her will.
  21. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:04 am
    @TruTenrMan: Fetuses aren`t sapient life; they`re POTENTIAL sapient life. Argument invalid.
  22. Profile photo of Doiknowyou
    Doiknowyou Male 30-39
    937 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:05 am
    A fetus is no more sapient than a skin cell buddy. Sapient means being able to use sound judgment.
  23. Profile photo of Doiknowyou
    Doiknowyou Male 30-39
    937 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:05 am
    Ha...beat me to it
  24. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:10 am
    ...meh. Abortion is legal in most developed countries, naturally. Anti- abortionists are just the last remains of those who could not come to terms that a woman has an equal right to determine what to do with her body as a man has with his. It`s not like all control- freak religious fanatics disappeared after the enlightenment period. Most of them got enlightened, not all I guess :-p
  25. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:14 am

    @ Archer - sorry, doesn`t wash. A "potential" human being based on it`s early stage of development...ie-being a fetus?

    Embryo, fetus, zygote - these are all stages of every human being`s development. Just as the other stages of newborne, infant, toddler, teenager, and adult are. Why is it only the 1st 3 stages are not "human" and therefore without rights?

    A parasite? no. A parasite is a foreign body feeding off another. An unborn child is not an alien entity, it is natural to that environment.
  26. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:18 am
    So these people are comparing the murder of a fetus to exfoliation?

    Cant we just do abortions by kicking people? They get what they want, and I get to take out my frustration on stupid people.
  27. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:18 am
    "those who could not come to terms that a woman has an equal right to determine what to do with her body as a man has with his. It`s not like all control- freak religious fanatics disappeared after the enlightenment period."
    Nope, I`m an athiest and anti-abortion.

    Same rights as a man? Every woman does. Neither man nor woman can use coccain in the US. Nor can she/he rent their body out for sexual favors {except in Nevada}. You cannot sell your spare kidney for money.

    In fact, no one has the right to do anything they want with their body.

    Your right to swing your arm ends where my nose begins. A womans right to her body ends where her child`s body begins.
  28. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:21 am
    "Do YOU have a reason in favor of it that could withstand the glare of rational thought?"

    Making abortions illegal wont stop abortions. The amount of abortions that occur would most likely be roughly the same as now. The difference would be that more women would die from abortions, or get sick/injured (possibly become infertile etc) as a result of the abortion. Also there will be more incomplete abortions, where she tries but fails to abort and ends up delivering an injured/deformed/dead child. Or, since not all women would be willing to risk dying from an abortion, they might continue to act like they`re not pregnant (drinking, doing drugs, not going for prenatal care etc) and deliver a deformed/sick child. The real way to reduce abortions is not to make them illegal, but to focus on providing free/cheap birth control to everyone and focus on educating people on birth control.
  29. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:24 am
    Just because someone thinks abortion should be legal does not mean we advocate curetting 6 month old foetuses. There are many cases were a pregnancy is unwanted, or dangerous - we all know the argument. But it is not the same thing as killing a baby if one removes a blastocyte or an embryo at a fairly early stage. Surely those who object on grounds of cruelty to the foetus would do better to campaign for an earlier cut off date and FAR better access to birth control. It is the most vocal anti-abortion lobby who often deny their children access to good sex education and birth control.
  30. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:27 am
    "I have a problem with abortion as a birth control alternative."

    You do know that birth control can fail, right? Or that in some places it`s difficult to obtain birth control for free/cheap (which doesn`t result in people not having sex, instead they don`t use protection). Or that in some places the sex education classes are a joke and they don`t teach kids properly, right? Fix the 2nd two and the amount of "abortions as birth control" will be reduced. But don`t think that all abortions that aren`t from rape/incest or won`t result in death to the woman are simply "abortions as birth control". Condoms break, the birth control pill can fail, etc. If someone doesn`t want to be pregnant, they`ll usually try to prevent it, since no one wants to have an abortion. But nothing`s 100% besides abstinence.
  31. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Lillian - "Making abortions illegal wont stop abortions. "
    Outlawing murder did not stop people from committing murder.
    Making theft a crime doesn`t stop some from stealing.
    You don`t make something legal solely becuase some people would not obey the law. I myself never obey speed limits.
  32. Profile photo of Loxen
    Loxen Female 30-39
    1387 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:33 am
    I wonder how long it will take the anti crowd to make the next step in de-evolved thinking and try to make sterilization techniques illegal, and masturbation for guys.
  33. Profile photo of bedbugsbite
    bedbugsbite Female 18-29
    41 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:38 am
    madduck: I could not possibly agree more with what you are saying. Spot on.
  34. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:39 am
    Prolife or Prochoice is so yesterday`s news. It`s all about PRO-PREVENTION!! Condoms! Birth control (for reals, no Plan B)! Real adult responsibility!! Not insured?? Planned Parenthood!

    If you live in a 1st world country, Pro-prevention should be pretty easy. Ha easy. Just. Like. You :)
  35. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:40 am
    @Gerry - So your reason for wanting abortions to be illegal has absolutely nothing to do with "saving lives" then? Nothing do with protecting "babies"? It just has to do with punishing women and nothing else? Murderers are put in jail because they are a danger to society. Putting a woman in jail for having an abortion does not stop her from getting pregnant in the future (she could even get pregnant in jail if she has access to a male) and having another abortion, nor does it stop the previous abortion from happening. Women who have abortions aren`t a danger to society at all, unlike murderers and thieves. Making abortions illegal most likely wouldn`t reduce the amount of abortions significantly (if at all), all it would do is punish women. Women would be more likely to die or be permanently injured, unable to go to a hospital afterwards to be treated for fear of being put in jail, and potentially jailed if caught. The fetus does not benefit at all.
  36. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:43 am
    Gerry, I never said anything about potential human beings--I said potential INDIVIDUAL. Only individuals have rights. A fetus is literally part of its mother`s body.

    The difference between a toddler and a fetus is that a toddler is a physical separate being. It lives, thinks, and breathes on its own. A fetus is part of another person`s body, while a toddler is its own body. A mother has the option of putting a toddler up for adoption or giving him to a relative; no such choice exists with a fetus, since it exists as part of her body.

    From Merriam-Webster, "Parasite" is defined as: "something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return"

    A fetus is dependent on something else for existence and support without making a useful or adequate return; it`s has a parasitic relationship.
  37. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2765 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:45 am
    "Outlawing murder did not stop people from committing murder.
    Making theft a crime doesn`t stop some from stealing.
    You don`t make something legal solely becuase some people would not obey the law. I myself never obey speed limits."


    this
  38. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Archer- again we have differant viewpoints. I don`t see a fetus as " literally part of its mother`s body". It seems to me it`s a seperate body growing inside the mother. It has it`s own dna distinct from hers.

    Yes, it is fully dependant on the one person, the mother. Left to take it`s natural course it would become more independant over the next 20 years. After 8 or 9 months it can be dependant on a differant person for food and protection, but still fully dependant on another. And as time goes it gains more independance.

    But in the first 9 months the pro-abortion crowd think it`s okay to off-it because it`s too dependant? Again, it seems like a person to me, just a wee tiny one.
  39. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:01 am
    Ok- what exactly is it that those of you who are anti object to? Causing pain and suffering to the unborn I can understand, but how many of you who object to THAT eat factory farmed meat? Sanctity of human life? How many of you who think that support the death penalty? Can you pin point why you object please- it will make yyou easier to understand.
  40. Profile photo of bedbugsbite
    bedbugsbite Female 18-29
    41 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:05 am
    Of course the issue doesn`t really effect me since I live in the only province that has NO access to abortion services. I believe it is the only place in North America, in fact. Pro-life groups have declared it a `life sanctuary` and lobbied government against ever allowing it in the province. We get news stories like `14 year old tries to self abort`. Seriously, it happened couple months ago. http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/16/ p-e-i-abortion-ban-challenged-by-new-pro -choice-movement/ (remove spaces)
  41. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:05 am
    You know.... I am truly sick of the argument that a fetus isn`t considered a human. It`s just plain ridiculous, and I think it`s time for it to stop.
    How about I go around destroying all of the Oak tree seeds in the world or all of the unhatched Robin`s eggs... what? They aren`t considered `alive` yet. I mean- there is no denying the fact that a fetus is GOING to come out a baby. And- I don`t even think this fact invalidates a pro-choice standpoint... I think abortions should still be legal. But it IS time for people to drop this dumb argument, and really FACE the reality that when a person aborts a baby, they are aborting a potential life. Not a parasite, not just a bundle of cells.
  42. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:18 am
    Yes Dixxy, they are a potential humans .We do stop them becoming actual life just as pigs eating acorns prevents them being an oak tree. At conception we are talking about a cell,so do you object also to the morning after pill which prevents implantation? Many pregnancies are disastrous for the mother- birth control fails, women get raped or fall ill after conception. So just what exactly do you object to? Is human life somehow special? Is the potential life more valuable than the mothers actual life? Now okay- I understand you are pro-choice, but this I why it is important to get people to articulate what they object to and why!
  43. Profile photo of BillyH
    BillyH Male 60-69
    2 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:20 am
    Fetuses, are a combination of cell mass and liquids. Not much different than the primordial ooze. They are not living creatures until they are born and breath our rotten air. Therefore, you have no right to force you Religious or social opinions on anyone else. If you don`t want it, get rid of it like you do other body wastes.
  44. Profile photo of Quackor
    Quackor Male 18-29
    2856 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:24 am
    exfoliating removes already dead cells
  45. Profile photo of Quackor
    Quackor Male 18-29
    2856 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:25 am
    why dont we just accept the reality, a fetus is a living being with no conscious brain or self awareness. Its killing but who the duck cares
  46. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3441 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:28 am
    Exfoliating... lol
  47. Profile photo of Zeegrr60
    Zeegrr60 Male 40-49
    2106 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:28 am
    Dixxrarr: you need a lobotomy.
  48. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:34 am
    Do YOU have a reason in favor of it that could withstand the glare of rational thought?

    Well right away you`re phrasing suggests that abortion is irrational and illogical. You`re stacking the deck. I argue that forced continuation of unwanted pregnancy is irrational and illogical. The only matter you`re relying on is that at the moment of conception it`s a person with the same rights as someone who is born; before the guy can light a cigarette there`s another person in the room (I know actual conception doesn`t immediately happen, it`s hyperbole). It`s difficult to argue the finer points when you say that it`s wrong by default.
  49. Profile photo of HappyAbes
    HappyAbes Female 18-29
    78 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:42 am
    So does that mean every time i get my period, ive murdered?
  50. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:43 am
    Madduck: I like to consider myself `pro-prevention`. I think that abortions should definitely be legal, but it should be the LAST option for people. IMO, abortions are happening all too often these days. I`m so sick of people not taking the proper sexual precautions (condoms, birth control. And I don`t think that Plan B is grouped in with these... I don`t think it should be available OTC and I can`t stand how many women use it as their main form of bc). I mean, I can think off the top of my head at least 7 women that I know (and I mean WOMEN, with jobs and degrees and brains) that have had abortions because `the condom broke` or `I forgot my pill once or twice` or `I swear I`m part of the .01% that gets preggs on the pill`. COME ON... there goes my BS detector.
  51. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:44 am
    Ooohhhh billy. So what`s with all the moving around and kicking and crying in the womb?

    They instantly become animated at the moment of birth? Wrong.

    It`s a baby at brain function.
  52. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:44 am
    Cont....

    Bottom line: I think the proper place for abortions is for rape victims and teens. Not for 20/30 somethings that were too scared/lazy/uninformed to get on the pill, or ask their SOB boyfriend to wrap it up. Women should take care of themselves in the beginning, not clean up the mess with a costly, painful and heartbreaking procedure.
  53. Profile photo of sazziable
    sazziable Female 18-29
    54 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:52 am
    If the fetus will put the mother`s life in danger, then in my opinion it is okay for the woman to get an abortion. If we made all abortions illegal, than we could put the lives of a few at risk. I also believe women who have been raped should not be forced to have a child, when it was not their choice to begin with. If it endangers the mental or physical health of a potential mother, then I am for abortion. If the potential mother has no medical issues or mental trauma due to rape, then I think they should find alternatives like adoption if they don`t want to raise a child themselves.
  54. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:59 am
    Okay Dixxy. First off, I have had a few condom fails, at 48 if I got pregnant it would be quite vile- I am FAR too old. So, I do morning after pill if this happens. However- lets be sensible- assume my cycle is quite long- 7wks after sex I realise my period has not arrived. I can buy a test kit for a quid - oh dear- I am indeed pregnant. I should be able to go and get an abortion within days- before the foetus is formed enough to be more than an unfeeling blob. This is not something I would want more than on the odd occasion as it is easier to swallow a pill- but this scenario could only happen if people were very aware and abortion was easy. However- unless a woman fell ill while pregnant I can see no reason to abort after 12 weeks at the VERY outside....
  55. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    Gerry - it`s not a child. The human reference is such a cheap argument, likewise with those who say "oh, then we might as well kick people to death then" it not a child it`s a lump of goo and it`s inside a female. It`s not a result of illegal behaviour like cocaine use either. What sort of argumentation is that?
  56. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    "Ooohhhh billy. So what`s with all the moving around and kicking and crying in the womb?

    They instantly become animated at the moment of birth? Wrong.

    It`s a baby at brain function."

    What kind of brain function? Most abortions happen early on. There`s not even a chance of surviving outside the womb until between 20-25 weeks and even then the chance is slim. Before then, they can`t feel pain, they cant think for themselves. They may have body movement, sure, but it`s automatic and not because they want to do it. I don`t support abortions if the fetus has the ability to live outside the womb (unless it`s impossible to remove the fetus and keep it alive without potentially killing the woman). But before then, it`s no different from a woman miscarrying naturally to me.
  57. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    Madduck: Women who are having sex with men regularly should be using condoms AND birth control.... so if the rubber fails, you can go `whew! I`m glad I`m being sexually responsible.`
    And if for some crazy reason, they BOTH fail (you misplace your pills or ... whatever) then I think you should have to make a doctor appt for Plan B, not just walk in/out of a pharmacy.... I think this would cut down on it being treated as Plan A, not B.
    And then- if ALL of these things fail and the person (who is reasonably financially stable, of age, and completely consenting in the said sexual activity) becomes pregs... then I think they should go through w the pregnancy and give it up/keep it.

    ANd don`t get me wrong, I am NOT supportive of population growth... I just think if men and women took all of the appropriate precautions that come with sex, there wouldn`t be many `oops` babies created out of neglect of sexual responsibility.

  58. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    I am not advocating sexual irresponsibilty at all. But as far as I can see it is the suffering caused to an older foetus that would be the only valid objection to abortion, that being so pull the upper limit right down. A country that permits judicial murder cannot claim human life is somehow sacred- but to prevent pain and suffering is reasonable. Sex Ed should start at about 8, and continue all through school with condoms being available at school, the doctors - everywhere. Sadly- this is unlikely to happen.
  59. Profile photo of Golden1
    Golden1 Female 18-29
    123 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:28 pm
    Getting an abortion is a personal decision. We need to stay the hell out of other peoples lives. Yes abortions are sad and there are tons of people who would take the baby, but that`s my opinion. Just because I feel it`s wrong doesn`t mean I have the right to force someone else to continue a pregnancy. As far as it being a "costly, painful and heartbreaking procedure": It`s not your money, not your pain and not your emotional distress. People are stupid and careless and if they get as far as needing an abortion, they shouldn`t be allowed to breed anyway.
  60. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    no comment...
  61. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Student_Law - I didn`t compare a fetus to coccain. I used drug use as an example of how people do not have a right to do any old damn thing they want to with their bodies. Dispelling the myth that "women have a right to do what they want with their body".

    You and I agree - the fetus is not the result of criminal activity. Terminating it might or might not be criminally immoral, depending on your point of view.
  62. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:37 pm
    Madduck: What you described in your last post, I consider sexually irresponsible (not having a back-up to condoms).

    But- I totally agree with you about sex education... and I think that girls and women should be encouraged to stand up for themselves and their sexual health. So many women I know don`t bring their own condoms on dates, or are too scared to ask their bf`s to use them. Or just don`t use birth control because it`s too inconvenient/expensive. The availability of these preventative items should be promoted and encouraged, as opposed to the availability of Plan B or abortions.

    Whew, that was fun! Thanks Madduck :)
  63. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36213 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    @ Student - "The human reference is such a cheap argument"

    Really? If it is a human then it`s life is cheap? If it`s not, then yes, so the fundamental question is whether or not a fetus is human. So far, no one, neither scientist or clergy can point to an exact time and proove for or against that. So I err on the side a caution.

    But we do know, that left to it`s natural course it WILL BE a person by all legal definitions.
  64. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:47 pm
    Not being too personal, for some condoms are it... they do fail, but it is not common I admit. As I said- moring after pill is there for just such an occasion.
  65. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 12:47 pm
    Yes Dixxy- it was!!!
  66. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:07 pm
    Abortion doesn`t devalue human life.


    6,987,192,322 people on this mudball of a planet devalues human life.

  67. Profile photo of Batmanners
    Batmanners Male 18-29
    4007 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:07 pm
    fetus =/= baby.

    Birth = baby.

    Fetus = fetus.
  68. Profile photo of Evil_Eye
    Evil_Eye Male 18-29
    1443 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:35 pm
    Here is a new viewpoint on the pro side! I will make it something a lot more people will be able to relate to, since not many people have dealt with raped / unable side of abortions.

    What happens to a 21 year old woman who spent most of her life trying to achieve a hard earned goal... Her family do not make a lot of money with the current hard times and the price of college is high, so this is her only shot. She gets in and has spent her first year there and celebrates. Feeling happy she goes out with some friends and decided to have some fun with a guy, but the guy had kept his condom in his wallet too long so the latex was weak and split!
  69. Profile photo of Evil_Eye
    Evil_Eye Male 18-29
    1443 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    Now this woman just had a major spanner in the works, one that ether ended her career choice (because the older you are entering a career the harder it gets) or delayed it for a unforeseeable amount of years, because she has no idea how she can afford college again any time soon with a kid to pay for. The dad was just a man she wanted some fun with so he will not be there for her. She desires to get a abortion but sadly they are illegal... so she now must leave college, have this baby and deal with all the motherhood stress that comes with it.

    What will she think of the baby during this time? She had a life, a goal, something that she fears might never happen now... all because of this baby that will not stop crying and she doesn`t know at this point why it is crying. She might look at the baby and loath it. Her only child become a symbol of her ruin someone in her subconscious.
  70. Profile photo of Evil_Eye
    Evil_Eye Male 18-29
    1443 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    Sure there is always a chance she could bounce back, but it would take a lot of spirit and willpower to that I frankly don`t see in many people. Could be awful and she could harm or kill the baby, but that would be even rarer occurrence. Most likely she would bring this child up without enough attention or love, maybe developing bad habits to cope with stress like most people do.

    So what happens to the kid in the most likely occurrence? Kid will grow up wrong 4/5 times and becomes the very person in society we always complain about. Becoming bullies like me and I bet most people here have dealt with, then growing up like the people we see in the news living off benefits and/or committing crimes. Starting all off because they grew up with a poor and uncaring Mothers, so they developed selfishness and hate for the world.
  71. Profile photo of Evil_Eye
    Evil_Eye Male 18-29
    1443 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    Now this may sound like a lot of maybes... but that is a lot of maybes I meet every day.
  72. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:42 pm
    Okay- see convo Dixxy and I had earlier--- but--- morning after pill? Is that available there?
  73. Profile photo of mackin
    mackin Male 30-39
    210 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    In Japan, and to a lesser but growing segment of the US, women who have abortions name, have a funeral/memorial, and honor the memory of a child/fetus/lump of cells they abort. The term is usually translated as "water babies". It`s a way to acknowledge the situation as tragic, but necessary.
  74. Profile photo of faaaaq
    faaaaq Male 18-29
    687 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 1:59 pm
    aaaahahaha, Evil Eye has no life
  75. Profile photo of Evil_Eye
    Evil_Eye Male 18-29
    1443 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 2:05 pm
    @faaaaq: Just got home from a funeral, need to get up and work for 9 hours at 6am tomorrow so I am in a sour mood and I vented a bit there for 15 minutes worth of typing. I apologise for this.

    TL;RL = Imadbro.
  76. Profile photo of Jonix
    Jonix Female 18-29
    74 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 2:30 pm
    I agree with Golden1 pretty much, and my personal belief is in line with Lillian -- the baby isn`t a "person" until it can survive outside of the womb.

    Before that, I see the `child` being more akin to a plant. Sure, it`s "alive", but to what extent? Should abortions be considered murder? Then should miscarriages be considered involuntary manslaughter?
  77. Profile photo of Selous
    Selous Male 30-39
    1197 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 3:01 pm
    say no to abortion, say yes to anal
  78. Profile photo of ElMustache
    ElMustache Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 3:17 pm
    Samantha:1 Marjorie:0
  79. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 3:23 pm
    "then I think you should have to make a doctor appt for Plan B"
    really? a doctor appointment for the morning after pill? do we just schedule them in advance for the morning after everyday we`re going to have sex?
  80. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 5:17 pm
    I-IS-BORED: something tells me if you used condoms and birth control, you wouldn`t need Plan B. Sh*t, I`ve never needed it...
  81. Profile photo of SephirothA83
    SephirothA83 Male 18-29
    955 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 5:27 pm
    samantha = winning
  82. Profile photo of tacks
    tacks Female 18-29
    155 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 7:37 pm
    Team Samantha!
  83. Profile photo of lawndartsftw
    lawndartsftw Male 40-49
    1811 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 8:57 pm
    Exfoliated cells (from your face, usually) dont eventually grow to become a unique human being. Imo, her argument is invalid.....
  84. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:31 pm
    As long as the foetus is neither conscious, nor capable of sustaining life outside the womb, abortion is solely the business of a pregnant woman or her legal guardians if she is under age. This is self evident and a matter of common sense. It is only the religiously blinded who cannot see that. The abolition of abortion serves only to impoverish and enslave women.
  85. Profile photo of Discobiscuit
    Discobiscuit Male 18-29
    542 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 10:45 pm
    Where do you draw the line? Just if the baby has/hasn`t seen the hospital lights yet?
    So ambiguous. Shame the issue has to come up even at all. Be careful, all you horny buggers
  86. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 11, 2012 at 11:47 pm
    Ok dixxy- just curious here- you seem to class the morning after pill as abortion- but why? Are we talking about the same thing? Hefty dose of progesterone taken within 72 hours of intercourse. Prevents either fertilization or implantation? This really does hit blastocytes at worst-
  87. Profile photo of eSc
    eSc Male 18-29
    27 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 1:56 am
    one thing one of my bio lectures told me is that there is no real start to life, its not like you grow a bunch of cells and then bam lightening zap and its alive
  88. Profile photo of sexytexan876
    sexytexan876 Male 18-29
    42 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 2:16 am
    I always love these little debates on abortion. The way I see things: if it doesn`t affect me in a way other than making me slightly uncomfortable (emotionally speaking) then I really shouldn`t have a say in what happens.

    What does it matter to you if the mom kills her kid? "But it could be the person who cures cancer!" Yeah, and it could be the next Jeffrey Dahmer.
  89. Profile photo of PopCap
    PopCap Male 30-39
    730 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 3:04 am
    "No one gets lynched for exfoliating"?! That`s genius! That`s a pretty good argument for postnatal abortion. "Your honor, I didn`t `kill` the victim, I exfoliated his mom". That totally works for me.
  90. Profile photo of Mr_Pedo_Bear
    Mr_Pedo_Bear Male 70 & Over
    997 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 4:06 am
    @Madduck we got the morning after pill the other day. I kept rubbing her stomach saying goodbye little bundle of joy she just doesn`t want you. I thought she was going to hit me at one point. Made the doctor at family planning clinic really awkward dealing with us. But hey she knows my sense of humour haha
  91. Profile photo of lawndartsftw
    lawndartsftw Male 40-49
    1811 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 5:29 am
    @dracuyla. A full-term new-born baby cannot "sustain" itself outside the womb, after being born. All birth is, imo, is a change of enviroment....
  92. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 6:07 am
    I would hardly say that they are even remotely close to the same thing. Having said that, what a women does to her own body is her own business, and she can deal with the consequences.
  93. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 7:30 am
    So dixxy when somebody starts having a heart attack do we make them go get a doctor`s appointment to get emergency blood vessel dilation meds and then right after the appointment, 6-8 weeks from now, they can call the ambulance?
  94. Profile photo of yusuksomuch
    yusuksomuch Male 40-49
    1008 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 7:31 am
    i used to be against abortion, then when i got older and realized most people shouldn`t even be allowed around children let alone be a parent,now i just see it as mercy killing, abortions should be free and come with sterilization too
  95. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 9:37 am
    madduck and I-IS-BORED: I`m saying that both Plan B and abortions are almost completely unnecessary if one uses the proper precautions. Condoms AND birth control. Always. Every damn time.

    I emphasize this heavily because I know too many people (I refuse to say women, bc safe sex is both party`s responsibility) who are NOT using these precautions and just relying on the fact that Plan B will be available. PREVENTION, is what I`m pushing... it may seem like I`m splitting hairs, but the real number of people practicing safe sex is terrifyingly low.

    Plan B is not safe sex. Just condoms is not safe sex. Just birth control is not safe sex.
  96. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 9:40 am
    So dixxy when somebody starts having a heart attack do we make them go get a doctor`s appointment to get emergency blood vessel dilation meds and then right after the appointment, 6-8 weeks from now, they can call the ambulance?


    Yes. Because that`s the same thing. *eye roll*
  97. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 9:49 am
    Also- and this is my last thing, I swear :)

    I saw this article recently about pharmacies turning women down for Plan B. And I was horrified because I think it should be available to women. BUT- I was even more horrified that the author of the article referred to the use of Plan B as `safe sex`.

    We shouldn`t be teaching in sex ed that pregnancy scares are the norm and abortions are something that `most women go through`... because it doesn`t have to be that way.
  98. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    Lol- ok Dixxy- here it is refered to as either the morning after or emergency -never plan b. As I said, for some condoms are it- well maybe a diaphram but that doesn`t really go with condoms ( imagine the squeak!) But I get the point- given that the morning after make you feel rank I can`t see anyone who had it once using it again unless it really WAS an emergency..... ok---- really, i`m done sweetie!!
  99. Profile photo of penguinazul
    penguinazul Female 18-29
    471 posts
    January 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm
    Dixxy, did you ever take into consideration that some women CAN`T use birth control, and that it is particularly unsafe for women over the age of 35 to take birth control? What do you suggest for those people? Just don`t have sex unless you plan on procreating? You can be as sexually responsible as possible, but the only thing that prevents pregnancy 100% is abstinence. Condoms fail and birth control fails, and it`s unfair to force a woman to go through a pregnancy for a child she doesn`t even want; especially when she`s at an age where it`s particularly dangerous for her to carry a child. A woman shouldn`t be denied a decent sex life simply because she can`t handle synthetic hormones being secreted into her system.
  100. Profile photo of Solarmew
    Solarmew Female 18-29
    119 posts
    January 13, 2012 at 8:06 pm
    exfoliating is removal of cells that are already dead ... analogy fail ...
  101. Profile photo of ElijaBlack
    ElijaBlack Male 18-29
    275 posts
    January 14, 2012 at 5:17 am
    its like eating eggs technically they`re like chicken periods but with bacon.
  102. Profile photo of DrCat
    DrCat Male 30-39
    70 posts
    February 5, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    Technically it is a logical fallacy to compare a live cell to a dead cell. There is a pretty major difference there.

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