Penn Jillette: Atheist`s Guide to the `12 Election

Submitted by: fancylad 5 years ago in

Penn Jillette rates the various candidates for the 2012 U.S. Presidency from the perspective of an atheist.
There are 59 comments:
Male 234
Justin I usually agree with your posts, but I must point out a flaw in your statistical logic. Just because this study showed that atheists are a higher IQ on average (shown in multiple studies, not just this one), doesn`t mean that someone with a higher IQ is more likely atheist. In the US there are more people that are Christian than atheist, and given a reasonable standard deviation (not sure what it actually is) there may be more high IQ Christians than atheists, making someone with a higher IQ more likely Christian. Your mistake is a common one in statistics, a study may show A associated with B, but you can`t make statements then judging B vs A.
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Male 5,811
There goes Crakr, moving the goalposts again. And Justin, IQ tests are a sh*tty measure of actual intelligence.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Kudos educating yourself, but you are the exception, not the rule and you know it. You realize you`re just trying to combat my rebuttal because you`ve stepped into a belief of atheist elitism now, which is promoting prejudice against deists.[/quote]

Ad hominem
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Male 17,511
Justin: Now, You can take your asinine assumptions about me and other Christians, eat them, and apologize or confirm that you`re just a ideologue and a bigot.

Your choice.
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Male 17,511
Justin: The $26,000 figure is `total household income`, not individual income. Please don`t be deceptive by doubling it.

[quote]How you phrase it, the poor seem to be banned from knowledge.[/quote]
I didn`t say `banned` and I said, `Higher Education`, not knowledge.

[quote]most people have a lower middle class life and have a computer.[/quote]
Most people, according the other link, are NOT lower middle class and no amount of deceptive math on your part will change that.

Kudos educating yourself, but you are the exception, not the rule and you know it. You realize you`re just trying to combat my rebuttal because you`ve stepped into a belief of atheist elitism now, which is promoting prejudice against deists.

I could likely find a similar graph to this one based on ethnicity, but if so, promoting it would be racist now wouldn`t it ?

My average IQ score is 150, grew up lower middle class, have a college degree and I`m Christian.
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Male 646
"Individual thinking". "Free thinking". He doesn`t even understand how ridiculous, and wholly arrogant, these terms are.

I`m a Christian but I support DUE PROCESS. We, every man AND woman, have a fundamental civic right to due process. That`s the rally against anti-abortion laws. I`m against abortion, I believe it`s a sin, but I don`t want the government to decide when it`s acceptable and not. It`s between a woman, and her mate if he`s around and not a rapist, and God.
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Male 1,582
be honest. I don`t blame you friend. Feel free to combat what I`ve said so I can prove you wrong some more. I do enjoy it, friend.
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Male 1,582
of course). Take two people who grea up in the same neighborhood, with the same family wealth, and attended the same schools. One of the two is 99% likely to be naturally more intelligent than the other. And all this study says is that he is more likely to be an atheist than his friend. The study shows that there`s a correlation between intelligence and religion, not between religion and intelligence. In the same way that a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. I can see why you don`t understand this though. You`re an American (average IQ 98), and you`re a theist, I`m guessing Christian (average IQ 98). Therefore you more than likely have a very average IQ (not necessarily, because there`s a domain and range for a reason). I guess a mad theist with average intelligence just can`t grasp the concept that they`re not the brightest humans on the face of the planet. I`d be pissed and try to disprove it as well, to be honest.
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Male 1,582
intelligence. There`s no direct corrilation, even though you think there is. A K-12 education is mandatory (excluding dropout privalidges at I believe 16), and no deficiency of money can keep you from being allowed that education. How you phrase it, the poor seem to be banned from knowledge. Tell me why income determines intelligence. I grew up in a lower middle class home, and I went to public school.. a very pooty public school in the Detroit Metro area. And I have an IQ that far surpases anyone I know (save a person or two). So please tell me how I obtained this vast intelligence coming from such a low income home and having to go to poor public schooling? You realize you`re just trying to combat this study because you don`t like that the members of your religion are proven to be less intelligent (on average, of course).
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Male 1,582
I can`t spell encyclopedia without spell check and I have an IQ of 168 (189 math and science). And again, please read several things I made sure to word very carefully. "Lower middle class", if you realized that most household have (optimistically in today`s economy) two people bring home about 26K a year, for a net total of 52K a year. That`s lower middle class. Math, it`s hard, I know. And then read what I said here "typically, unless you`re using a friends or public PC, but let`s go with the vast majority here". I made sure to say that to counter what I knew you were going to try to say, but somehow you didn`t read that and desided to list public computers anyways. Sure there`s people who are poor and have access to computers, which is why I listed my exception, but most people (KEY WORD MOST, because I don`t know if you`ll read it this time), have a lower middle class life and have a computer. However, even if they were poor, it has nothing to do with intelligen
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Male 17,511
Justin: [quote]That means most, if not all, the participants were educated, lower middle class (and higher)[/quote]

Really ? I`ve seen people living on food stamps with $400-500 laptops that couldn`t spell the word encyclopedia without using a dictionary (that is if they even owned a dictionary).

Sorry but there are a lot of poor people on the internet, more than you think there are, even when I was homeless I could get on the internet via library computers. They are giving elementary school children laptops to take home as part of the (OLPC) program.

It`s your assumptions of education level and income that are wrong. In another link here on IAB it states that half of all Americans make less than $26,000 a year, the poverty level is $22,350 a year.
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Male 1,582
dispute this fact, and hope no one else understands logic. But on the plus side you don`t have to worry. It`s just the average theist that isn`t as bright. I`m sure you`re brighter than plenty of atheists, and there`s plenty of theists who are brighter than I am. But the average atheist, given the exact same education and weath as a theist, is more intelligent.
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Male 1,582
@CrakrJak

Sorry to disappoint you, but the study was conducted online using US citizens only. Meaning you have to have a computer and internet access to take the survey (typically, unless you`re using a friends or public PC, but let`s go with the vast majority here). That means most, if not all, the participants were educated, lower middle class (and higher) Americans. So I`m sorry, but the results were not scewed, nor would they be scewed if it were in fact a worldwide test. In order for the results to be faulty, you`d have to have an uneven sample such as taking all atheist scores from highly educated populations and theist results from very poorly educated population. Mixing samples would decrease everyone`s average as a whole, but still give you proper ratios. However, I assure you Harvard did not make this careless mistake. You obviously have no understanding of statistics, or just really badly want to dispute this fact,
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Male 625
TL;DW
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Male 17,511
Justin: The major problem with that study was that it conducted worldwise, with many of the countries with much lower GDP than Europe or America.

A similar graph using GDP data has the same correlation. Since poorer countries have less opportunity for higher education, IQ scores are bound to suffer as a result.

In short, it`s more about money and educational opportunity than any particular religion. A poor atheist, on average, won`t be any smarter than a poor muslim, Jew, Or Christian.
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Female 457
I love Penn. I am a non-denominational Christian, and he just makes me smile. He is so smart and just makes such wonderful arguments. I agree with him 100% on the fact that religion should not even be brought into a political campaign. God should not be used as a political platform. Period. These idiots like Bachmann and Perry make me want to punch someone.
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Male 3,631
This is the last thing I`m worrying about when it comes to Obama.
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Male 1,582
I`ll just leave this here. Average IQ`s based on religion, a Harvard study.

Muslim- 92
Christian- 98
Pagan- 98
Hindu- 104
Buddhist- 108
Jew- 115
Atheist- 119

The average Atheist has 21 points over the average Christian. For those you don`t know:

Over 140 - Genius or almost genius
120 - 140 - Very superior intelligence
110 - 119 - Superior intelligence
90 - 109 - Average or normal intelligence
80 - 89 - Dullness
70 - 79 - Borderline deficiency in intelligence
Under 70 - Feeble-mindedness

The average atheist is one point from "very superior intelligence" and the average christian is on the lower half of average intelligence. And I would just like to say that the average person is actually pretty stupid.
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Male 120
I want to know what his views on Ron Paul are.
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Female 4,084
what i`ve never been able to figure out is why my lack of faith in any sort of god is found to be so threatening to people who possess their own faith. by their christian teachings, the righteous believers will sit at the right hand of (their) god for eternity while the nonbelievers languish in hell until the end of all time.

if i`m willing to take the chance and the responsibility for my own non-beliefs, why be so upset about it?
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Male 11
"But think for a second how f*cking stupid the average person is. We`ve all been there, we`ve all done it, we`ve all discussed it at parties. But the really scary thought is, by definition, half of them are more f*cking stupid than that." - davymid, A.K.A. The Reincarnation of George Carlin

<3
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Male 314
Once again, a bad, misleading caption.

I usually don`t like this guy, I think he`s too angry. So it`s nice to see him say he`s actually optimistic.
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Male 17,511
[quote]...every word in the bible is the word of god.[/quote]

Neither God (capital G) or Jesus said every word in the Bible, in fact most of the words in the bible are either men talking about or describing the events they witnessed or giving instruction to others. The Bible contains "the words of God", but it`s contents are not 100% God`s words.

Nevertheless we Christians do call the Bible "the word of God" because it does contain God`s words.
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Male 12,138
[quote]You`d have to be retarded or brainwashed to really, totally, believe that every word in the bible is the word of god. Or the Koran. Or Dianetics.[/quote]
You`d think that, wouldn`t you?

But think for a second how f*cking stupid the average person is. We`ve all been there, we`ve all done it, we`ve all discussed it at parties. But the really scary thought is, by definition, half of them are more f*cking stupid than that.
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Male 15,259
You`d have to be retarded or brainwashed to really, totally, believe that every word in the bible is the word of god. Or the Koran. Or Dianetics.
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Male 283
THANK YOU TO THE POSTER!
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Male 871
all this says is that to be president you have to pay lip service to christianity, which is scary as fook
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Male 10,855
[quote] I can do card tricks therefore I am a political expert.[/quote]

Google PennPoint it`s a channel on YouTube
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Male 233
[quote]Total bullcrap from someone who`s never read the Hadith or Sura, and has likely only read out-of-context parts of the bible from an anti-Christian hate site. [/quote]

sorry Crakr, i have read the bible and most of it is pretty full of murder. god directs his chosen people towards wholesale slaughter as a mater of course to everyone who is not of the "chosen people"
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Male 12,138
[quote]An Atheist`s guide to politics? I`m sorry, but that is just stupid. I love Penn, but politics and religion don`t need to be mixed. Ever.[/quote]
I agree completely that they shouldn`t, but that`s rarely the case. Coincidentally, I just read this quote by Thomas Mann earlier today "One fails to recognise the unity of the world if one considers religion and politics as two fundamentally different things"
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Male 1,832
An Atheist`s guide to politics? I`m sorry, but that is just stupid. I love Penn, but politics and religion don`t need to be mixed. Ever.
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Male 438
"Sorry but taking passages out-of-context"

There is not one tenent of Christianity that all Christians agree with, therefore it is just deciding what spin and slant each sect and even each individual in a sect want to believe and since reason and proof are not required of any of them they are all equally believable. I don`t think christians are crazy, but the stuff they believe, and why they believe it, in their religion is crazy, that was Penn`s point.
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Female 385
CrakrJak, you are right about one thing. I don`t think all Christians are crazy. Certainly some of them, but far from all.

And I think this because I honestly believe most Christians are decent people, because most people in general are decent. I do not think their Christianity factors into their decency.

But to be that decent person, most Christians willfully ignore many parts of the Bible. They make excuses such as "Jesus changed the laws,", when Jesus himself is quoted as having said things such as "Don`t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose" (Matthew 5:17) and "But that doesn`t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God`s law to be overturned" (Luke 16:17).
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Male 19
There are way to many men seeing life not as it is but "thru their fathers eyes" thru a prism of the good ole days when lies where the truth and integrity was no where to be found. Sadly these miserable angry men go on and on about how bad they have it. Stop it already it was wrong then and even worse now. Get honor.
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Male 17,511
[quote]The Bible has just as much "kill the infidels" as the Qur`an does.[/quote]

Total bullcrap from someone who`s never read the Hadith or Sura, and has likely only read out-of-context parts of the bible from an anti-Christian hate site.

I swear you liberal sheep keep bleating the same tired old crap you`ve read from atheist blogs, books, etc..

I`m tired of repeating the explanations and rebuttals, seriously. If someone kept bugging you asking, "What time is it ?", wouldn`t you eventually get annoyed enough to reply, "Get a watch!" ?

Sorry but taking passages out-of-context, libeling us as being as bad as al-qaeda, and calling us "Bat-poo Crazy" just makes us want to slap you silly, but you know we won`t. Why do you know we won`t ? Because deep down you know we aren`t "Bat-poo Crazy". So please quit your duplicity towards us.
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Female 4,408
I dont understand, how can you have a serious political government when you go and mix up a whole bunch of religion into it. Dont mix church and state.
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2,831
no ron paul huh?
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Female 3,726
Oh Crakr, I think you like IAB just for these discussions.

Let me sum it up for you.
1. Life is too short to believe in fairytales.
2. Blind faith is a dangerous thing.
3. Religious fanatics (e.g. Westboro, Al Queda) need to be eradicated from earth.
4. We need to teach our children common sense and decency. We should NOT teach them that earthquakes happen because Lance Bass likes it in the butt.
5. I can go on and on but I have to leave now, it`s almost NEW YEARS!!!! But I`ll be back later...


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Female 3,726
LillianDulci
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
1373 Posts Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:27:02 AM
tl;dw summary?
_________

It`s only 19 minutes, what are you? A fruit fly??
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Male 620
I can post on the internet therefore I am a political expert.
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Male 10,440
[quote] we`ve separated jurisprudence from our spiritual lives to avoid sectarian fights and wars among ourselves and others. [/quote]
About 2000 years of nearly constant war in Europe... between christian countries. How did that work out?
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Male 10,440
[quote] I`m on limited bandwidth and the month`s almost over and it`s almost all used up. I close any videos more than ~5 minutes unless I reallyreallyreally want to watch it.[/quote]
Alright then. I thought it was a time thing.

You could set it to 240p :-P
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Male 438
"Perhaps you don`t realize that Christians believe that Jesus wrote a new covenant (set of laws) for mankind."

This is just a rationalization to allow some christians to admit large portions of their "Good Book" IS bat poo crazy without actually saying so.
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Female 2,674
"Perhaps you don`t realize that Christians believe that Jesus wrote a new covenant (set of laws) for mankind."

If this is true, then why do some Christian`s use passages from the old testament to justify their hate? Also, do you believe your god is infallible? I know some Christian`s do, and yet he somehow made a mistake and the rules somehow changed because of Jesus...
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Female 2,674
@Brassbull - Thank you :3

Magic underwear, I`m intrigued...
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Female 2,674
@LazyMe484 - I`m on limited bandwidth and the month`s almost over and it`s almost all used up. I close any videos more than ~5 minutes unless I reallyreallyreally want to watch it.
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Male 910
I see Crakr is ranting about how ignorant he is again. You go Crakr, lower our expectations of your critical thinking.
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Male 415
@CrakrJak: it would seem though that there`s an incline of the type of Christians (also in other religions) that do not believe in jurisprudence apart from the Bible. "Love your neighbour as you love yourself" makes everyone seem to hate themselves then though. There is hatred in religious mids that is truly frightening.
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Male 2,419
@CrakrJak
All you did there was pick out the good parts and it came out to a couple lines of text. The Bible has just as much "kill the infidels" as the Qur`an does. It`s full of rules about slave ownership, stoning people, etc. Claiming otherwise is just ignorance.
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Male 3,894
@CrakrJak--He wasn`t talking about the moral implications of the bible, many of which are admirable.

He referred to people professing to believe the word of the bible *literally*, flesh-bread, burning bushes, talking snakes, and 900-year-olds included. THAT`S crazy.

Being a good person isn`t crazy. But you don`t need a burning bush to tell you to be nice.
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Male 17,511
To Penn Jillette: The code, THE rosetta stone, if you will is Mark 12:28-31 "..Love your neighbor as you love yourself..", Luke 10:25-37 be a good Samaritan, Matthew 6:14-15 forgive others, Matthew 5:38-39 "..turn the other cheek..", Matthew 7:12 The Golden Rule, Matthew 7:1-5 Don`t judge, Don`t be prejudiced.

Do you really believe any of the above is `Bat-poo Crazy" ? Perhaps you haven`t got to those parts of the bible yet, I don`t know.
Perhaps you don`t realize that Christians believe that Jesus wrote a new covenant (set of laws) for mankind. And perhaps you don`t realize that we`ve separated jurisprudence from our spiritual lives to avoid sectarian fights and wars among ourselves and others.

It`s not "Bat-poo Crazy" to be a Christian yet believe in jurisprudence as well, it`s logical and reasonable to do so if we wish to live by Jesus` greatest commandment, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"
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Male 1,610
@LillianDulci - tl;dw summary:

Reason and logic are replacing religion and all the absurd claims and intensly religious political/social talk is really just the death throes of religion.

And Romney has magic underwear.
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Male 3,894
@Gerry-- Just because he does card tricks, he`s not allowed to talk about his political ideals?
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Male 319
For a self professed individualist, he sure likes generalizing about other people.
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Male 233
[quote]I can do card tricks therefore I am a political expert. [/quote]

I`m a fairly intelligent and informed man with a position in the public eye...

fixed that for ya gerry
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Male 10,440
It seems that everything important on youtube I`ve already seen, including this.

[quote] tl;dw summary? [/quote]
Watch it you lazy arse.
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Male 39,880

I can do card tricks therefore I am a political expert.

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Female 2,674
tl;dw summary?
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Male 20,899
Link: Penn Jillette: Atheist`s Guide to the `12 Election [Rate Link] - Penn Jillette rates the various candidates for the 2012 U.S. Presidency from the perspective of an atheist.
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