Occupy Ports Leader Sticks It To The Man

Submitted by: Baelzar 5 years ago

"The Man" being the 99% she pretends to represent.
There are 75 comments:
Male 928
Nice ebook liquid. A shame no one cares. But hey I hear the price on an ebook just skyrocketed so maybe you should hit amazon and publish your post there. It would give you an opportunity to reach that 1% yourself and see what both sides look like and then you would have your whole puzzle complete.
0
Reply
Male 1,111
@Baelzar:

I believe you have a very interesting point and while yours goes outside the scope of my hypothetical with FoSchizle you are correct it does create wealth within the States. However, I believe you`re still missing the "leak" effect that will take place over time. But that`s ok as I`m sure it`s just a missing piece of your puzzle much like your point was a missing piece of mine.
0
Reply
Male 1,111


You also have to take into consideration the volatile effects of politics that can have an effect on the design and sales economy. If our products are mass produced in other countries (mainly china) and they decide politically that they want to raise prices or completely shut off manufacturing. Then it would be the equivalent of you losing your job and not having savings. It`s a wonderful synergy created between nations but only if the nations can fully trust and work together in harmony. Otherwise it`s a trapeze act with no safety net.


I will have to disagree with you believing the wealth is "created" While you are correct one person or organization can `create` wealth for themselves you have to look at the source of the wealth. With buyers lacking buying power wealth is impossilbe to create.
0
Reply
Male 1,111
@FoSchizle

I appreciate your courteous reply, and I will have to agree I think we are viewing it from different schools of thought. Thank you for your input. I`m always looking to learn something in a way I hadn`t thought of before.


0
Reply
Male 3,631
After reading some of that article ATPno34, I`m beginning to wish even moreso that Cavuto had let her finish at least one sentence. I really hope these inhospitable working conditions are at least some of what she and her fellow pizza-party-protesters are out there to condemn on the part of the Sachs, and not merely the advent of "wealth creation."
0
Reply
Male 27
In case no one has posted this yet , there ARE no unions in some of these ports, and THAT`S the problem. I`m no union-lover, but that`s because I thought we had ditched the 1930s and people in this country didn`t have to work in third-world working conditions anymore. Is this the F`ing Lochner era? Open letter from port workers in Los Angelesopen letter from the port workers of Los Angeles
0
Reply
Male 3,631
I wish Neil would have let her finish her sentences and I don`t know what the HELL he was talking about at that end-point, but.. What is this demonization of wealth-creation? Seriously - her ostensible objective is to create wealth for workers, right? Creation of wealth is a benefit to all of society, for reasons I don`t need to elaborate on here. Of course, I didn`t get to hear all of what she had to say due to Neil`s fear of being presented with an argument he couldn`t counter, but attacking a business entity with legitimate interest in a viable industry does not equate to rewarding them for malinvestment, which is what this movement was supposed to be all about opposing.

So - it`s more like a punitive strike with more collateral damage than targeted quarries, and I really can`t get over this tone of hostility toward the creation of wealth due to valid business transactions.
0
Reply
Male 37,888

Baelzar - You are confusing "wealth" with "greed".

Take Health Care for example. Announced today were the average salaries of CEO in that industry - up 36% over the last 4 years. Did they, as you put it, add value to a product? Is the asperin better? No, they just added cash to their profit margin. HMO`s and banks have enjoyed record profits during the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression, but not by "adding value" to any product.
0
Reply
Male 331
Yea, try to effect the "1%" by making putting so many people out of work and effecting every as a consumer... I don`t know how you sleep at night young lady.
0
Reply
Male 1,399
Gerry, you create wealth when you take something and add more value to it than it took to make it.

In the case of an IPad, that`s a combination of labor (both to design and to fabricate), parts, and time.

If the sum of those equals less than what people will buy it for, then the number inbetween is new wealth.

It works with purely intellectual pursuits as well; an author takes 6 months and writes a novel, gets it edited, formatted, and sells it as an ebook. If enough people buy it, wealth is created. Not moved, not stolen. Created.

As for your other suggestion, companies don`t hoard cash. They don`t just put it in a bank account and let it sit there, regardless of what OWS thinks.
0
Reply
Male 330
youtube.com/watch?v=5HMjqQaWqes

Simple, well done video illustrating my point.
0
Reply
Male 1,196
uggghh. she seems like a college know it all hippy
0
Reply
Female 14
It bothers me that the newscaster cares more about kids receiving presents than anything else.
0
Reply
Male 526
i agree with fox on this. she calls herself proud, but the only people she`s hurting at the people who want the goods. everything she buys will go into the pockets of the richer people. she isn`t doing anything positive but keeping the 99% from doing their jobs ALL the way down the line.

she`s too focused on thinking that this will some how affect things. it`s really sad.
0
Reply
Male 734
I dunno KRW888, I thought he made his case quite perfectly!
0
Reply
Male 506
@Gerry1of1, well said.

I would add that these corporations aren`t going to die, they`ll just move to another market and start leeching the wealth out of it without a second thought for our country.
0
Reply
Male 37,888

@ Baelzar - oh contraire mon frere

"Wealth" is not just the cash you get from selling a product. It`s a sustainable level of profitability. A short term boost of cash is not an economic gain.

If a company hoards all it`s wealth {building/selling product overseas} without reinvesting in it`s community in the way of jobs, schools, salaries, then the long term projection is a downward spiral into poverty. Eventually no one can afford the product and the corporation, like a tape worm, has starved it`s host to death and it too dies.
0
Reply
Male 1,399
FoSchizle, Liquidglass, you are both wrong.

The only thing that matters is where the value is added. If Apple, an American company, designs the iPhone here, has it built cheaply in China, but sells it all over the world for USD $499.00, then the wealth is created HERE.

Even if 100% of the parts and labor are Chinese, it`s the design that adds value. Same with cars, software, vacuum cleaners, cell phones...as long as it`s designed and sold by American companies, then our economy changes from a manufacturing economy to a design & sales economy.

The wealth remains here.
0
Reply
Male 1,737
Wow, just wow, the stupidity level on this one is through the roof. Sure banks may help fund companies at start up, but I would hardly say they run it. Protesting a port to get at a bank is stupid.

Let`s just say for the hell of it, that all the stuff passing through this port is food and medical supplies. Are people`s lives worth your personal agenda against a seemingly non-related group? What about the workers who depend on an exact salary, where one day of lost work will set them back?

You attack the 1% through legal actions, petitions, lobbying, etc. This is crap approach.
0
Reply
Male 174
Neither of them made their case. He tried to bully her and she tried to ignore his questions.
0
Reply
Male 37,888

FoShizle [quote]"sending factory jobs overseas actually NETS jobs here in America" [/quote]
We created jobs here by sending them there.
Huh?
Okay, you mean the dock worker unloading the boat. Okay, 500 jobs went to a factory in China. 10 dock workers were hired in the US.

500 - 10 = ? You do the math and tell me again we created jobs by sending them to China.
0
Reply
Male 5,811
@Liquidglass:

Way TL;DR
0
Reply
Male 2,737
He`s a dick.
0
Reply
Male 330
@Liquidglass:

I get what you`re saying, but I still disagree. We`re probably just looking at it from two different schools of thought and won`t ever agree on it.

Regardless, I`m not saying we shouldn`t produce anything, just not the things for which we are a high opportunity cost producer (which is most factory jobs). If we ship those out, we have more money to produce ideas/improvements to the rudimentary goods that we outsourced. Of course we can`t produce nothing and sustain ourselves, but there`s other ways to produce outside of factories.
0
Reply
Male 219
@FoSchizle: Globalization has an evening effect. It will (and has) brought lower technically advanced countries leaps and bounds in technology (gleaned from the more advanced countries) and give them new and exciting jobs. Unfortunately, there is a finite number of jobs to possess when you put this on a global scale...so, if you take those jobs from the folks that have been working them at a higher rate of pay and move them to a country with a MUCH lower rate of pay...the folks that lost the job just lost it...no expansive market of sales...no new and exciting area of employment...just a lost job.
0
Reply
Male 734
Smug little child. Just another smug, ignorant OWS moron.
0
Reply
Male 141
Fugly AND dumb as hell.
0
Reply
Male 1,111
@FoSchizle: (posted in easily readable format)

I would like to agree with you, I really would. But as you may have only taken a basic course in economics and it sounds as if you`re regurgitating what a professor may have told you, I will disagree.

True producing products at a cheaper costs enables more sales jobs of said product to be created which generally pay better. You`re right on this front.

(Now we aren`t going to get into logistics of how work in third world countries is beneficial to the occupants because that`s a separate topic.)

There are two separate aspects you have to take into account when saying it`s the action with the most utility to transfer jobs overseas.
0
Reply
Male 1,111

The first is the ratio of jobs. While manufacturing of goods may employee hundreds of people at one factory that same factory only has the financial power to employee dozens of sales people for the items created. Of course we are just looking at the idea of the area of population a single factory can create goods for and be sustained by vs the same populations need for sales people for said product.
(eg: it may take 200,000 people spread out over a service area to support the factory producing goods) So you can multiply this number across the board of consumers within given geographical limits and the numbers will still hold true.

If that same factory is shipped overseas and employs hundreds there then the number of sales people needed for the same given demographic will remain the same. Unless you chose to hire more sales people for the same given number of people then the salaries will remain the same or drop for said sales people.
0
Reply
Male 1,111
The second factor to consider is the flow of money. Given it is a subtopic to our main topic but follow my logic for a second. Originally the money was diverted into overseas raw resources to manufacture goods and the rest generally stays within country.
By shipping the factory overseas you are now splitting the profit into foreign raw materials, foreign work, home sales jobs. Which is a significant split when you take into account the maintenance and management that are hired and completed overseas as well.
Then the hundreds of people who were previous employed now have less if any buying power and multiplied by the number of factories that were moved overseas you have thousands if not tens of thousands with less buying power.
0
Reply
Male 1,111
They`ll buy cheaper items which are produced overseas forcing even more money into overseas operations.
This can continue, but only for a while. If you become a consumer nation without being a producer of anything then you`re basically re-cycling the same money and each circulation another portion breaks off and goes overseas eventually leading to economic downturn and the country being unable to support the companies producing said product. Companies going out of business or downsizing which means firing overseas workers and home sales people.

The easiest analogy to give you a grasp of this happening is this. If you were a consumer only and not a producer of anything how long could you sustain yourself?

You buy groceries, cell phones, tvs, clothes, etc. But you fail to produce anything then eventually your resources will run out and you will be broke.
0
Reply
Male 4,902
Bitch is dumb as hell.
0
Reply
Male 481
This is going too far. I support the idea behind the OWS, but I`m sorry. This is just a dick move.

All protests in this country are ruined by the people in them.
0
Reply
Male 376
This is a perfect example of my problem with this whole issue... could I honestly support either one of these bozos?
0
Reply
Male 2,841
I couldn`t make it more than 30 seconds without wanting to fart on her face.
0
Reply
Male 15,832
I`m surprised that the Teamsters and Longshoremen didn`t just beat all those stupid self-righteous hippies into a squishy little puddle of mush.
0
Reply
Male 330
Viking: Actually, no it`s not. If you don`t believe me, take even a basic Macroeconomics course. When companies can make their goods at a cheaper cost, they have more money to hire people to then sell those goods. Traditionally, service sector jobs pay higher than manual labor jobs.

Obviously this doesn`t hold true 100% of the time as nothing ever does in social sciences, but it`s spot on MOST of the time.

Like I said: job loss in the short run, but it ends up netting jobs in the long run. People gotta look past the short run when it comes to economics.
0
Reply
Male 936
the 99% who would have been working that day will still get paid. If the company told them to not come in then they have to pay them. At least that`s how it is here...
0
Reply
Male 1,810
And create jobs here ?? Ahahaha LOL !! Not a drating chance !!!
0
Reply
Male 1,810
The communist Chinese are sitting on a HUGE pile of cash, accumulated over the last 15 years of "globalization". Meanwhile North America has steadily slid into (personal and national) debt and unemployment. The goods formerly made/supplied by our economy still cost the consumer the same, if not more, but are much inferior in quality and made by Chinese sweatshop labor for a fraction of the cost. The increase in net margin/profit made by selling North America this shoddy merchandise made in communist China has ended up in the hands of the N.A. corporate elite, the new corporate elite in China, and China`s communist rulers, who are using that wealth to overhaul China`s military to make it the strongest on the planet. I`ve seen this coming for years, spoken out and been greeted with slack-jawed, glazed-eyed moron-ity, and now it is too late. Are the Chinese going to spend all that money we have stupidly, willingly transferred to them, in North America, and create jobs here
0
Reply
Male 1,444
@FoSchizle: As an unfortunent person that has had to help close 7 factories in my lifetime, your statement is BS.
0
Reply
Female 109
well gee, maybe americans should phucking buy AMERICAN MADE GOODS THEN and they wouldnt have to worry about their lead infused toys bought from communist china wont arrive in time!

seriously?! phuck off
0
Reply
Male 330
Gerry:

False. It may have increased unemployment in the short term, but sending factory jobs overseas actually NETS jobs here in America, and higher paying ones at that.
0
Reply
Female 146
fox news sucks a lot, believe absolutely nothing the newscasters and interviewers say
0
Reply
Male 37,888

I see the point. Every product imported is a job that went overseas and represents an unemployed person here.

But the only people who lost money were 99%ers. The products still got unloaded the next day so the 1% got their profit, the labor got screwed out of a days pay.

Inefective protest is Ineffective.
0
Reply
Male 7,378
Well if Fox thinks it`s wrong it must be right.
0
Reply
Male 31
Wow fox news... I was there. And the longshoremen were actually helping, they even brought pizza to us... Damn fox news, you suck so much corporate D*ck
0
Reply
Female 2,674
CRAIGJ - I was referring to the fact that you said not watching tv = not watching Fox news. There`s tons of ways to watch Fox news online, TV isn`t necessary.
0
Reply
Female 527
Interruption much? Please just let her finish speaking!! How did he make it that far in life without having decent conversation skills?
0
Reply
Male 256
This whole Occupy thing is a joke. While the roots of it are noble, it has become so watered down, diluted, and bastardized by the homeless, mis-guided idealistic college kids and misinformed that its message is no longer. The only place that should be occupied is DC because that is where the corruption lies.
0
Reply
Male 145
So because more liberal hypocrites write that all Fox News does is lie on the internet that makes you more informed??? If you want to beleive everything you read on the internet then be my guest. Of course your a liberal so you will beleive anything one of your counterparts writes.
0
Reply
Female 2,674
CRAIGJ has never heard of the internet.
0
Reply
Male 2
LOL @ Occutards
0
Reply
Male 145
@wizard.. By your profile you don`t watch TV so how do you know what is even on Fox News. You are just reapeating the liberal chant which makes you a sheep!
0
Reply
Male 1,399
Somebody (not sure who) sent pizzas. Uh.....huh.

Meanwhile, the unions are disagreeing and distancing themselves, and workers are losing money.

Goldman Sachs stock? Steady.
0
Reply
Male 36,388
So to protest 1 (one) company, you harm 23 others = fair?
So to stop the "1%" from making a buck, you make 100s of workers (the 99% I would presume) LOSE PAY!

He cuts her off because she`s not answering questions, she`s repeating dogma. All reporters cut off their guests, not "only" Fox...
0
Reply
Male 155
Fox News = Lies for morons
0
Reply
Male 145
He was yelling because she was lying about having the full support of all the workers at the port. These guys make 100k + a year plus benifits unloading and loading ships, do you really think they S*IT what these wanabe hippes think.
0
Reply
Male 1,311
Actually I`m tired of both percentages. They can both kiss my @ss
0
Reply
Male 10,440
[quote] He wants her to hear him the moment she finishes.[/quote]

How would he know she`s about to finish?

I think you`ve just proven that:
1. You are biased as f*ck.
2. The reporter is a moron.
0
Reply
Male 1,471
How is yelling at and cutting off the person you are interviewing, because she has different opinions, good journalism..
0
Reply
Male 10,440
I shut it off after 2 minutes after it started to look like they were going in circles.

Why anyone would agree to be on FN is beyond me.
0
Reply
Female 2,674
@auburnjunky - So he`s psychic now? And that doesn`t explain why she never finishes what she`s saying.
0
Reply
Male 10,339
wants
0
Reply
Male 10,339
Stupid people have no idea what they are protesting.

Also, the reason why he is talking before she finishes, is because of the delay. He want`s her to hear him the moment she finishes.
0
Reply
Male 2,419
"do that with races"

Is he implying she might think something along the lines of:
"That one black guy committed a crime so they all benefited from it financially, hogged increasing margins of profits, and refuse to actually circulate their large quantities of liquid assets and instead pool them and keep them stagnant so a large portion of the money in the country isn`t actually being reinvested into anything and isn`t generating any revenue and is slowly devaluing due to inflation."
That`s a bit of a stretch in my mind...
0
Reply
Male 550
@nubblins
"Haven`t we established on IAB that Fox News is totally legit?"

LMFAO! It`s funny cause it`s sarcasm.
0
Reply
Male 332
this is not an interview this is a shouting match between to obstinate people.
0
Reply
Male 10,845
I hate to say it but Cavuto`s got a point here.
0
Reply
Male 17,512
This did nothing to the 1%, all it did was reduce workers wages by loosing a days pay and likely caused Timmy to not get his back-ordered Christmas gift in time for Dec. 25th.

Way to go assh*les.
0
Reply
Male 2,516
I CAN YELL LOUDER THEREFORE I WIN
0
Reply
Female 2,674
Can these people seriously get over talking over others? Let a person finish their thought and then comment on it. She was polite and let him talk and he consistently cut her off. I don`t think she finished what she was saying even once in this video besides her introduction. So irritating and so rude. I couldn`t even pay attention to what either of them were saying.
0
Reply
Female 1,743
Haven`t we established on IAB that Fox News is totally legit?
0
Reply
Male 663
Okay I do support occupy wallstreet. It`s not about asking for handouts, like fivecats and other members seem to think for some reason, it`s about addressing the issue of how wealth can have such a powerful role in influencing government, which is a real issue, as it give a disproportionate amount of power to a small percentage of the population. However, I don`t think this is the best way of going about doing it.
0
Reply
Male 1,399
Link: Occupy Ports Leader Sticks It To The Man [Rate Link] - `The Man` being the 99% she pretends to represent.
0
Reply