Joe Horn - Neighborhood Hero Or Murderer?

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 5 years ago in Misc

The 911 call from Joe Horn as he catches 2 burglars at his neighbors home. Would you want Joe to be your neighbor I-A-B?
There are 157 comments:
Male 106
If everyone treated robberies like this, we would have no robberies. Think about it.
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Male 8,530
AGit-"SilverThread`s link it states that both were shot in the back"

Ah, okay, you were going on the detective`s statement (he also stated one of the criminals ran towards Joe).

I was going on the Coroner`s report, where the ballistics were indeterminant.

Plus, they were both shot IN HIS FRONT YARD.

AGit-"I find being shot to death totally unjustified"

A Harris County grand jury concluding the act was a justifiable use of deadly force and not murder. That`s it. End of story. It was justified.

Sorry, but possible death is an occupational hazard when you break into homes. They knew that in Texas they could legally be shot for doing so. Obviously they thought their lives were worth less than a flatscreen t.v. Who am I to argue?
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Male 661
Hmmm, iffy imho. He technically acted within the boundaries of the law. I think he acted in what he perceived to be the "spirit of the law". He also believed he was doing the right thing in his eyes.

He escalated the situation by intervening, with a firearm, placing himself into a position to shoot two men that did not exist before he exited his house. He was in no physical danger, and the robbery had been "completed" (for lack of a better term).

It wasn`t me, I wasn`t there, so my opinion is offered with those two things in my mind. IMHO, not murder, but a good case for manslaughter.

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Male 995
MeGrendel, on SilverThread`s link it states that both were shot in the back, that`s the only source I can give you, if there is any other, I`m more than willing to take a look.
I do care they broke the law, but I find being shot to death totally unjustified.
It`s nice to know that rational people are thankful, I aim to please (but not at the back:)
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Male 8,530
AGit-"guilt was established not by a trial but by a lone man based on his own experience"

The criminals` guilt has never been in question. They were caught in the act. They were witnessed to have broken into a house, and has stolen property from that house on their person.

Funny how you`re upset that their supposed `rights` were violated, and yet you have no problem with THEM breaking the law.

AGit-"Both men were shot in the back"

Please cite: According to the coroner`s report that was indeterminant.

AGit-"voluntary manslaughter at the least."

Sorry, the facts do not bear that out. It`s been 4 years and he`s never been charged. Rightly so.

AGit-"Good job I`m not American"

Rational people across the U.S. are thankful for that fact.
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Male 102
AGit, the one time I have had to talk with a police dispatcher while holding a gun, all they did was ask if I was armed and if I knew how to use it. I was babysitting the grocery store I work at during the big power outage in April and someone was trying to break in. Sadly, the perpetrator ran off before the officers arrived. However, when the officers got there, they flat-out told me to shoot the person if they came back. Quote: "If they come back, blast their ass"

Granted, I do live in Alabama, but it wouldn`t surprise me if Texans had similar stories.
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Male 995
MeGrendel, thanks for answering, quite useful. I was not aware that the person responding to the call was not a police officer, although I`m curious now to know what would have happened if a policeman answered and said the same thing. Would it be different?
And you say sanctity of innocent life, fine. But in this case, guilt was established not by a trial but by a lone man based on his own experience, and I don`t think that`s enough to establish guilt. Both men were shot in the back, I don`t really believe that they were threatening his life with their arses, so I have to go for voluntary manslaughter at the least. Good job I`m not American and part of the grand jury, huh?
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Male 3,631
MeGrendel - I was essentially agreeing with you. Thanks for the cameo though.
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Male 8,530
AGit-" All human life is sacred"

Nope, not really. Some humans have forfeited their rights.

AGit-"even though a police officer tells you not to leave your house"

A police officer didn`t. A 911 operator is not an officer of the law.
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Male 8,530
AGit-"Could you elaborate?"

Would be glad to. Let me preface it by saying that I, personally, am against abortion. BUT, my convictions are not to the point where I`m willing to make that decision for somene else. So I have no problem with the laws as they stand (except I would like it that no taxpayer money were used to fund abortions).

It`s actually very simple and I can explain my belief with the addition of one, single word.

You say `sanctity of life`. I say `sanctity of INNOCENT life`. I believe that life starts at conception, and that the child should have a chance. BUT, it`s entirely possible that he will grow up to be a criminal, in which case he loses some of his right, up to and including the right to live.
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Male 8,530
Suicism-"what bothers him about this event is that the `criminal` was deprived the opportunity to face trial"

That sometimes happens when you`re a criminal. It`s the utmost in hypocrisy when a criminal, who intentionally breaks the law, all of a sudden starts crying that his right have been violated and that OTHERS should not follow the Law where it concerns the criminal.

Angilion-"So they should consider the above scenario to be a good thing."

But they don`t because you scnario was based on ignorance.

Angilion-"I like a society ruled by laws"

Then get the criminals to obey the law and we wouldn`t have this problem. But you want to complain about a guy who DID NOT break the law just because you don`t like the outcome.
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Male 3,431
911 Operators are not police officers. This man acted fully within the bounds of the law and has been widely lauded as a hero by his neighbors and citizens of the United States.

He was found Not Guilty of any wrong doing by a grand jury, which is proof that our legal system does in fact work.

The men he killed were victims of their own very bad decision making.

Criminals *should* be afraid to break the law and to think otherwise speaks to a questionable base of morality. If the Law itself seems flawed to the Majority of a society, then it should be changed, if not, then in order to maintain social cohesion, those that are dissident would do well to retrain their point of view.
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Male 995
MeGrendel "Abortion and Capital Punishment are two totally different situations"
Could you elaborate? Perhaps it`s my poor understanding, but I`d say that those against abortion are so due to sanctity of life. All human life is sacred and, if mixed with religion, any act redeemable through true repentance. Execution skips both.
As practically all have skiped the obeying a police officer bit I mentioned, except barberthe. And even then with quite poor results "as long as doing so does not infringe on your rights". Then again, in the United States there may be a right that allows you to shoot at people that are stealing your neighbour even though a police officer tells you not to leave your house that I`m not aware of, as well may be the case...
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Male 12,365
[quote]I think what bothers him about this event is that the `criminal` was deprived the opportunity to face trial by the very society whose job it is to determine what his debt should be.[/quote]

That`s part of it, but my main concern is the effect on society. I`m not very bothered about what happens to burglars, but I am very bothered about what happens to society because that affects me.

I like a society ruled by laws and a criminal justice system. It`s not perfect, but it`s the least bad system anyone has come up with so far.

Going out hunting criminals with the explicitly stated intention of killing them goes against that. It`s fine for a plot in a film, not so much in reality.
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Male 12,365
[quote]No one answered because the scenario you put forth is so far out there it bears no resemblence to what actually happened.[/quote]

Since I never claimed it did, how is that of any relevance?

As I said before:

[quote]After all, there are quite a few people here arguing that killing burglars is a good thing regardless of circumstances because it improves society. So they should consider the above scenario to be a good thing.[/quote]
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Female 399
I live in Texas, my house just got robbed. I wish my neighbors had shot them in the drating face. Or shot them multiple times in other spots to make them suffer before they killed them. Disgusting pieces of poo, to make a living by stealing from people who actually work hard. This guy did the world a favor. I wouldn`t think twice about tearing a gigantic hole through these men, or the men who burglarized our house, with a big ol` shotgun. And I`d feel absolutely wonderful while watching them bleed to death. True story.
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Male 3,631
MeGrendel, I understand the concept of justice that Angilion was trying to illustrate, but here`s the fundamental problem - as you pointed out, yes at that point they would have paid their debt to society, so additional punitive punishment of that nature would be considered murder. I think what bothers him about this event is that the `criminal` was deprived the opportunity to face trial by the very society whose job it is to determine what his debt should be. The irony of course is that had Joe let these two burglars go, they probably would have gotten away and never had to face any form of justice. Thus, I default to my original contention.
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Male 8,530
Angilion-"Nobody answer before"

No one answered because the scenario you put forth is so far out there it bears no resemblence to what actually happened. (BTW, the `victim` was not burglaring a house, the `criminal` was. The `victim` was the person who`s house was being burglered.)

But, in answer to your asanine scenario: IF there were caught, and served their time, then technically they have served their debt to society.

When they got out, they could have been upstanding citizens, or trash. Their choice.

If someone decided to `track them down and kill them`, then that person would be guilty of murder. That fact has no bearing on the fact that they were burglers, and definitly no bearing that they were killed by a law abiding citizen in the commision of a felony.

Any more dumb questions?
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Male 3,631
Awwww - how sweet! The bad man knocked up a naive female! That makes him a family man.. just like Goebbels. Maybe there`d be less attempts at burglary if there were more outcomes like this.
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Male 12,365
Nobody answer before, so I`ll ask again. Have a go if you can:

[quote]The fact that the victim was burgling a house should be relevant to sentencing, but not to conviction.

To all those who think it`s reasonable force, try this scenario:

A burglar is caught and convicted after a fair trial. The homeowner had cameras in their house, the whole thing was on video. Absolutely definitely guilty. They go to jail.

When they get out some years later, someone with a yearning to kill someone tracks them down and kills them.

Do you think that`s a good thing? If not, why not?[/quote]

Serious question. After all, there are quite a few people here arguing that killing burglars is a good thing regardless of circumstances because it improves society. So they should consider the above scenario to be a good thing.

Maybe a reward for their severed heads, like there used to be?
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Male 1,064
i`m just glad he wasn`t killed. there wouldn`t be a news story here if he was
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Male 3,431
If an immune response is triggered by a cancerous cell within a body resulting in the destruction of that cell for the preservation of the organism as a whole how is this possibly a bad thing?

Society as a whole is a dynamic living organism composed of myriad smaller organisms that must function in symbiosis for the well being of the whole.

When that one cell is allowed to metastasize it can afflict myriad other cells and propagate on its own creating a much greater threat and ultimately disable or completely destroy the original construct.

Ask yourself this, if everyone within a society operated on the guiding principals of the two men that were killed in this story, what would that society look like and how would it function?

Now contrast that answer using Joe Horn as the model and contrast the answers, then ask yourself which society you believe you would prefer to live in.
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Male 3,431
Effing, Hero, the house next door is for sale, I would be happy to see him move in.
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Male 5,189
Good Job. Glad he did it.
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Male 2
only wish we could do that over here in the UK
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Male 165
The only mistake Horn made was calling 911 BEFORE he shot them.
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Male 256
Joe Horn - Thank you! It`s time someone stood up and did what is right.
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Male 8,530
AGit-"pro-lifers who are also in favour of death penalty seems to be the norm, strange as that may seem. "

Why would you consider it strange. Abortion and Capital Punishment are two totally different situations with their own rational for arguments on either side.

Kinda like saying `Most animal-rights activists are also against the in-field-fly rule`. Not related to each other.


mcboozerilla-"Thou shalt not kill. Period."

Original translation: "Thou shalt not murder". Different meaning. This was not murder.
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Female 695
Bravo
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Male 1,397
The guy is a dratin` hero!
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Male 1,008
eurodbags who wish death to innocent children are just representing, i get it
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Male 2,737
If you break into someones home, you take your life into your own hands. If you rob or mug someone, you take your life into your own hands. It`s a ballsy thing to do. So if you get hurt or killed, too bad.I had some guy knock on my door once, I didn`t know him so I stood by the door and just watch him. He kept looking around and kept knocking.After a while he tried the door nob, then went to pick the lock. I went to my bedroom, armed my shotgun and waited in the living room. he came in and I racked my shotgun and pointed at him. He froze. All I said to him was,"Don`t slam my door on the way out." He slowly walked out and closed my door gently, and ran down the road fast. I never called the police. They`re worthless anyway. I saw the guy a few months later in Walmart. I walked up behind him and quietly asked him if he was still breaking into houses, he looked at me, grabbed his daughter and left the store. Never saw him again.
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Male 1,360
I hope you all have this guy as a neighbour and he`s drunk and he mistakens your kid for a burglar and cold-bloodedly shoots the guts out of him.
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Male 1,008
lol i love it when eurodbags cry! its like springtime in venice, the way the sunlight hits the buildings in the evening..........
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Male 1,008
hey i think abortions should be free and available to any who want it and i also think I would like this guy as my neighbor, this thief was a great family man? Setting a fine example for the next generation of criminals? He is a much better example now.
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Male 1,360
USA! USA!
United States of As-holes!
And many of those are commenting on this post.
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Male 102
Continued,

the car was already a pos, so what was there to worry about?

Also, I totally agree with McGrendel
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Male 102
@Agit,

I do not fall to either side of the fence on abortion. I will never be forced to make a choice about it, so it`s not my right to choose for someone else. I personally believe that life does begin at conception, but that`s another argument for another day. I do not support nor oppose abortion.

I do support the death penalty. Do I agree with all the instances in which it is used? No. I do wish they would find a way to speed up the appeals process...why keep someone alive for twenty years just to kill them?

As for obeying the police, yes, it is a good idea as long as doing so does not infringe on your rights. The only time I have allowed an officer to do so was one time I got pulled over and the officer had a bug up his ass about me for some unknown reason. I figured letting him search the car and look like an idiot would be wiser than refusing and making him even more pissy. I knew he wouldn`t find anything and the car was already a pos, so what did I ha
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Male 646
That`s murder, people

Thou shalt not kill. Period.
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Male 3,477
Looks like four douche bags to me.
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Male 995
I really shouldn`t be surprised at some of the ever so witty remarks that can be found here, but I must admit that it`s quite funny.
I`ve more or less got used to the fact that most of the people here hailing this guy as a hero are simultaneously pro-life. Apparently not every life is sacred, but pro-lifers who are also in favour of death penalty seems to be the norm, strange as that may seem.
But it gets even better knowing that also most of the people that consider this guy to be a good example are the ones ranting in other posts about how you should always obey the officers of the law or suffer the consequences.
I guess coherence is too much to ask for...
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Male 157
guns?
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Male 533
drat YEAH, America!

But, seriously. It is his right. We don`t have the right to bear arms to just look cool. We are allowed to protect ourselves and our belongings by these means. Unless the nigglets were shot in the back, more power to the man.
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Male 669
meh, too much
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Male 186
The world is rid of two pieces of sh*t. Only a few million more to go. Good luck Joe.

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Male 8,530
davymid-"If he [your brother] was shot in the face by a neighbour, acting like Judge Dredd, would you still applaud the shooter/killer as a hero"?

I would be the first to admit that it was my brother`s fault. ANY person breaking into a house in my area (heavy on hunters and guns) is taking the chance of forfeiting his life.

davymid-"The judicial system is there for a reason."

Yes, Joe should have let them shoot HIM so that judicial system could handle it.

davymid-"and f*ck the so-called Law"

It`s called the "Castle Doctrine" and it IS the law. Look into it.

davymid-"It`s 2011 for f*ck sake."

Ain`t nothing special about 2011. We`re not more `enlightened`, we`re not less violent, mana does not fall from the sky. We`re still human, and still have to put up with violent criminals and stupid liberals.
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Male 8,530
davymid-"I must have missed that bit."

Yup, you did. Check again.

911 transcript: “I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man.” Pasadena police confirmed that the two men were shot after they ventured into Horn`s front yard. Police Capt. A.H. Corbett stated the two men ignored Mr. Horn`s order to freeze and that one of the suspects ran towards Joe Horn (he had arrived, but not gotten out of his car, so he was a witness).

davymid-"Joe Public with a gun to summarily execute two criminals for burgling a house "

There was not execution. He order them to stop (as is his right), they charge him, he killed them in self-defense.

Dumb crooks.
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Male 227
the reason I have rock salt shells, wont kill you but you`ll wish you where dead
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Male 17,511
Davy: [quote]If...(your younger brother was an assh*le, turned criminal)... was shot in the face by a neighbour, acting like Judge Dredd, would you still applaud the shooter/killer as a hero?[/quote]

I`d be sad for my brother and family, but I wouldn`t blame the shooter/neighbor for it.

And by the way, the neighbor wasn`t saying `f*ck the so-called Law` he was defending the law, the criminals burglarizing the house are the law breakers, and they damn well should`ve known the risks of getting shot while doing so.
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Male 148
I wouldn`t mind having him for a neighbor. It is my personal philosophy that if someone is going to encroach upon my safety or the safety of my friends and family, they lose their right to safety.

Criminals take what they get. No lost sleep on my part.
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Male 770
Well Davymid, fortunatly everyone in my family is smart enough, and has enough self respect to not become a criminal so I have no problem saying I wish he was my neighbor.
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Male 311
Drew Brees doesn`t need guns....If you put him in that same exact situation, and his o-line gave him enough time and a good pocket it`s game over. Two footballs of non-lethal holy righteousness to the back of their heads and Joe horn was not needed at all.
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Male 12,138
To those that say: "I wish he was my neighbour!", let`s put the shoes on the other foot. Let`s say your younger brother was an assh*le, turned criminal, and decided to burgle a house for some silverware. If he was shot in the face by a neighbour, acting like Judge Dredd, would you still applaud the shooter/killer as a hero?

The judicial system is there for a reason. The day we all turn militia-vigilante and get away with it, and f*ck the so-called Law, is the day we return to being a neanderthal society. It`s 2011 for f*ck sake.
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Male 12,138
[quote]Since he charged at a law-abiding citizen with a shotgun? [/quote]
I must have missed that bit. Where did the two perps charge at him, forcing him to unleash the shotgun rounds?

Must admit, didn`t pay that much attention (only watched it once), just didn`t hear that. Maybe it was in the back-story.

Also, I can understand the whole American Gun-happy thing. Heck, we`ve all watched westerns, and we know the background to America`s upbringing etc. But at what point does that allow a random Joe Public with a gun to summarily execute two criminals for burgling a house of some goods (probably covered under house insurance anyway)?
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Male 694
guns are for self-defense not justice
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Male 1,150
Ya I would want him as my neighbor.
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Male 15
So what we need are designated areas where home owners are "required" to own guns and other area which don`t. That way the criminals know which houses to avoid if they don`t want to get shot. This way everyone is happy. The criminals know where the easy marks are, the gun owners are able to defend their communities, and the bleeding hearts don`t have to worry about criminals getting shot.
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Male 8,530
Jokee-"Since when do you deserve to get your brain exploded for STEALING?"

Since he charged at a law-abiding citizen with a shotgun? Since they were dumb enough to try it in Texas.

Stupid should hurt. In this case, it was terminal.

And since when is this trashe`s life worth more than the hard work and effort of the owner the items he stole?

Jokee-"The insurance company would pay it back anyway."

Some things can not be replaced by an insurance company.

Jokee-"Those robbers were probably poor as drat "

Not an excuse. I got an idea! Why don`t you blame the criminals?!?! (I know, not very progressive thinking...they probably had nlow self esteem)

Jokee-"you still think it is acceptable to take someone`s life because he grabbed some material goods."

And these idiots considered their life worth those same material goods. Bad choice, that.
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Female 803
Ugh. I get that his widow is mourning and is now likely stuck on gov`mint help, but come on. I highly doubt that was her husbad`s first offense and wouldn`t have been his last if he`d lived. He would`ve gotten out and done it all over again because our justice system is failing miserably.
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Male 321
Me = Proud Texan.
Those two burglars = No good m*therf*ckers.

I`d do the same thing, and I own many guns. I am so sick of people who are afraid to take matters into their own hands and actually DO SOMETHING if something is not right.

All of you who think what he did was wrong = P*ssies
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Male 502
Hey Jokee so it`s OK with you if I just come over and take all your stuff? Cool, be right there.
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Male 768
If things like this happened more often there would be a lot less burglary.
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Male 40,739
I thought this was old:

Nov 2007

He was cleared of any wrongdoing in 2008.
Justice, a dish best served cold.
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Male 244
not exactly hero status, but I appreciate what he did. I bet there are fewer robberies in that area now. Guns = deterrent
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Male 43
It was the drating illegal aliens` fault for breaking into a godamn house when they should have gotten a drating job cleaning windows or some poo. He was just doing what any good neighbor would have done. I would`ve.
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Male 23
Can`t believe how many drating rednecks are on here. Since when do you deserve to get your brain exploded for STEALING? Taking some drating objects. The insurance company would pay it back anyway. Those robbers were probably poor as drat and needed to feed their family. I`m not trying to justify them though. Stealing is wrong but it should never deserve a death sentence.

This is why the world hates United-States. You are 100 years back. Where I live we try and promote peace and educate kids to love their neighbor (although I`m not religious, it says it in the drating bible you drating jesus freaks), and it doesn`t mean literal neighbor, it means other human beings. And where you live, you still think it is acceptable to take someone`s life because he grabbed some material goods.

Why don`t you go and kill all the bankers and politicians who get rich on your back? Those guys don`t need to feed their poor as drat family.
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Male 4,431
Joe Horn = trigger happy dick who ought to be in jail.
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Male 8,530
DJL-"The death penalty does not apply to people who steal silverware."

In certain parts of the country, yes it does get applied...by a law-abiding citizen who`s put up with enough.

And Diego was not given the death penalty. He was given Justice, both barrells of it.

He also received the penalty for being stupid.
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Male 315
I would make sure to introduce myself to him when I moved in and made sure he knew my face, after that... shoot on sight joe!
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Male 119
lol, drating loser ass drating faggot deserved to die. what a waste of drating life that piece of poo was. his family is a drating joke, too. Oh, and the fat man? nuff sed
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Male 340
@Angilion

I don`t know what kind of fairy-tale world you live in, but in my book, breaking into a neighbors house and stealing their things IS a "threat".
I don`t sympathize with people who obviously lack moral intelligence or just simply don`t care for the laws of society. They attacked his home. He defended it.
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Male 38
WIN!
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Male 134
The death penalty does not apply to people who steal silverware.
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Male 106
He`d be a fine neighbour until one night you lose your keys, climb into your own window, and he comes over and shoots you.
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Female 2,289
Joe horn = Hero
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Male 14,331
Good neighbor someone get him a beer he saved the system thousands upon thousands of dollars and mabey made criminals think twice about robbing someones house. If ya don`t want to be shot don`t steal peoples s**t!
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Female 1,893
He`s like Dexter but gets it done right. lol
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Male 16
I love Texas!!! This is the way it should be,you steal you get shot. don`t steal and you won`t get shot.
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Male 12,365
Killing someone cleanly while they`re posing a threat (which they are by being in your home after breaking in) - reasonable force in defence.

Deliberately going out to someone else`s home with the explicitly stated intention of killing people who were not a threat to anyone at the time, and then killing them - murder.

The fact that the victim was burgling a house should be relevant to sentencing, but not to conviction.

To all those who think it`s reasonable force, try this scenario:

A burglar is caught and convicted after a fair trial. The homeowner had cameras in their house, the whole thing was on video. Absolutely definitely guilty. They go to jail.

When they get out some years later, someone with a yearning to kill someone tracks them down and kills them.

Do you think that`s a good thing? If not, why not?
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Male 15
Actually, you don`t shoot to kill. You shoot to stop. That`s what you will get trained to do in any concealed weapon class. You also have the right being a concealed weapon holder to "stop" anybody committing a felony. And in some states you can actually be arrested for not stopping somebody committing a felony if you are a permit holder.
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Male 15
We need more _HEROS_ like Mr Horn.
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Male 1,540
Hell yeah I want someone like this as my neighbor. He`s not going to just sit around and let someone walk off with my TV. I`ll rest easy knowing when I get back home, if my TV`s not in the living room, there will be a corpse out front and Joe will have my TV back on my porch for me when I get home.
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Female 2,674
@MeGrendel - It`d be one thing if they broke into HIS house. But no. He was perfectly safe and fine in his own home. He flat out said he`s going to go out and kill them. So he went out and killed them. If he stayed inside, there was no danger to him, but instead he left with the intent to kill them for stealing material possessions.
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Male 8,530
LillianDulci-" The legal punishment for theft is not death"

So he should wait until they kill him so they can get the death penalty?

THEY considered their life to be worth someone else`s junk.

LillianDulci-"He`s a killer so I`ll call him like he is."

Your delusions do not equate reality.

LillianDulci-"He could have shot to injure"

Again, Your delusions do not equate reality.

LillianDulci-"a crime that doesn`t warrant death."

Sorry, you approach me with criminal entent, it warrents death.

I will make this so simple that even you might understand it: "Breaking into peoples houses in Texas (among other areas) is a good way to get killed. THEY knew this, but did it anyway. THEY knew what they valued their lifes at, and it was less that the price of a flatscreen t.v."

This occurred 4 years ago. Joe was never charged. I`m sure that the entire town`s
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Male 495
2007. Really on top of the ball here.
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Male 1,685
feckin`a a... gimmie that neighbor, hes a great guy. kill the baddies
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Female 2,674
"Not too familiar with shotguns, now are you? Plus, you don`t ever shoot to harm, you shoot to kill. "
You can repeat this all you want, but it doesn`t make it true.

"The HOMEOWNER (not killer) was being approached in a threatening manner by CRIMINALS. HIS judgement call to make. "
He`s a killer so I`ll call him like he is. He was approached after purposefully putting himself in a dangerous situation.

"HE approached THEM with LEGAL intent (to stop a crime and make a citizens arrest). THEY approached him with THREATENING intent. His call. "
BEFORE he left his house, he said that he`d kill them. HE approached THEM with the intent to kill for a crime that doesn`t warrant death.
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Female 2,674
@trippyhippy9 - He could have shot to injure and not to kill. The legal punishment for theft is not death, so it is definitely not his right to go out of his way to murder them on his own. I don`t have a problem with it if he only shot at their legs even if he accidentally killed them anyway. But he went out there with the intent of killing them for a crime that doesn`t warrant death.
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Male 8,530
LillianDulci-"I`m sure there are plenty of ways of aiming the gun where you..."

Not too familiar with shotguns, now are you? Plus, you don`t ever shoot to harm, you shoot to kill.

LillianDulci-"the killers life was not in danger"

The HOMEOWNER (not killer) was being approached in a threatening manner by CRIMINALS. HIS judgement call to make.

LillianDulci-"HE approached THEM with intent."

HE approached THEM with LEGAL intent (to stop a crime and make a citizens arrest). THEY approached him with THREATENING intent. His call.

onoffonoffon-"Are the robbers family`s really entitled to an opinion?"

Of course. Everyone`s entitled to an opinion. But if it`s anything other than `My hubby was an idiot` it has no bearing on the case.
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Female 2,674
@xfactormunky - The reason you`d shoot someone for entering your house is they are a threat to you/your family. That`s not the same as you willingly confronting thieves and then shooting them.
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Male 559
@LillianDulci

I disagree that his life wasn`t in danger. If he had let those guys get away, they would definitely be coming back to that neighborhood for more.

Would you have him depend on the police? Act like those guys aren`t a joke. Should he just be indifferent and let people steal whatever they want?

How was he supposed to know those guys weren`t armed? To do nothing about it would almost be like inviting potential armed criminals to come back and pillage your neighborhood.

Justice was served.
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Male 116
also, why is this getting posted? It`s like 4 years old
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Male 116
Well it is legal to shoot someone if they are trespassing on your property, I don`t see how this is much difference. So these guys aren`t allowed to get shot because the got lucky and picked the right house?
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Male 62
and burglaries were never a problem in that neighborhood again...the end.
when you disobey the law, bad things can happen.
i wonder how many robberies/burglaries those two gents had completed successfully?
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Female 2,674
"They were approaching him with intent. "
HE approached THEM with intent. He was perfectly safe in his own home and not in harms way at all until he went out of his way to go /to/ them. He wasn`t some innocent person caught off guard and being threatened. He even said before leaving his house that he`d kill them.
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Male 1,866
I think MeGrendel summed it up right.
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Female 1,589
While what he did is admirable, going as far as killing them is too much. He could have found a way, I`m sure, to just injure the fugitives. But even then, it`s not a just cause.
Firing of a weapon should only be used if you, or someone else is in danger. Stealing, while illegal, isn`t harming anyone.
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Female 2,674
"If you break into someone`s house, you forfeit your life ahead of time. "
But it wasn`t this guys house. No one was in the house that they stole from. This guy was perfectly safe in his own house and went out of his way to take justice into his own hands and kill the robbers.
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Female 2,674
@MeGrendel - I`m sure there are plenty of ways of aiming the gun where you know there`s a much smaller chance of actually killing the person. If your life isn`t in danger (and the killers life was not in danger) then it`s not your right to shoot to kill.
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Male 4,593
MeGrendel, dude I think you are my new hero.
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Male 1,399
If you break into someone`s house, you forfeit your life ahead of time.

Hero.
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Male 8,530
a1butcher-"You don`t deserve the death penalty for a B-E."

But, in Texas, it`s an occupational hazard. (i.e. they volunteered for it)

LillianDulci-"and shooting to injure"

Life ain`t like a movie. You don`t magically shoot the gun out of they guys hand. You shoot to kill.

jamie76-"a persons life is not worth taking over a theft"

Again, THEIR choice. They thought someone elses junk was worth risking their life over.
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Male 8,530
RyanHake-"He could`ve aimed low...disable them instead."

What? And face a lawsuit? (btw..you NEVER aim to wound).

xaxxonjolly-"Joe handed out the death penalty for robbery."

Here`s an axiom: If you are breaking into houses in Texas, you are ACCEPTING the death penalty.

xaxxonjolly-"which of you has never broken the law?"

Are you SERIOUSLY equating crosswalking with burglery? That`s screwed up.

dm2754-"is a mans life worth a few hunderd in useless junk?"

I don`t think so, but obviously Diego thought HIS was. And it was his choice.

xiquiripat-"This man handed out a death sentence on his own initiative"

Nope, Diego VOLUNTEERED for it.

xiquiripat-"Lethal force is justified only in defending one`s own life"

They were approaching him with intent.
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Male 2,344
the bottom line here is that he was in a safe place while on the phone and did not have to leave where he was. he caused the confrontation, that is the bottom line.

if they had entered his house that is different, if he had entered his neighbors house to stop them, that would be different, but no, he confronted them OUTSIDE the house as they were leaving.

this is by definition MURDER. It was two killings that did not have to occur and were not in self defense. for it to be self defense he would have to have been in a position where he could not be assured his safety and thus forced to act but he was safe and did not have to act.

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Female 2,674
Also AvatarJohn, my response was to SunnyNphilly saying that criminals have no rights. Criminals are anyone who disobeys the law, so stealing a $5 bracelet or running the red light do apply.
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Female 2,674
"Homeowners have the right to defend their home with deadly force. "
They were in their neighbors home when no one was home, then they left the home and weren`t in the killer`s home. They weren`t a danger to the killer. The killer wasn`t defending his own life. They didn`t have weapons as far as I know. He could have easily shot at their legs or something instead of shooting to kill. If they were a threat to him that`s one thing, but that was not the case.
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Male 2,344
wait, he had no reason to appraoch either of these men, if he had not approached them they would not have had a confrontation with him and thus he would not have had to shoot them.

a persons life is not worth taking over a theft, that is all there is too this. he had called the police, they were on the way, he then took the law into his own hands and killed to me for stealing.

he should be arrested.
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Female 2,674
@trippyhippy9 - There`s a difference between shooting to kill (like this guy did) and shooting to injure (like this guy should have done, injure them so they couldn`t get away and let the police take care of them). If he accidentally killed them that`s one thing, but he set out to kill them when they weren`t a danger to him.
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Male 1,059
Sorry Lillian, but there`s a difference between running a red light and breaking into someone`s home. If you break a traffic law, you get a fine. If you break into a house, you are potentially threatening the lives of everyone in that house. Homeowners have the right to defend their home with deadly force. I don`t own a gun, but I do own a bat, and if someone breaks into my home where my wife and children are I will beat them mercilessly until they are dead.
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Male 559
For those claiming SOL is 5 years, you are mistaken. It is 5-7 years for depending on the crime, but murder has no statute of limitations.

Also, this life long liberal thinks Joe did nothing wrong. If you get hurt or killed because someone was trying to prevent you from committing a crime, it is your own fault.

Also, sometimes property is worth a life. Those times are extremely circumstantial, but sometimes, a stealing a someones property is stealing their livelyhood. What if they stole tools used for working or sensitive documents needed to run a business?
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Male 4,807

Double Murderer...

You don`t deserve the death penalty for a B-E.
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Male 2,441
He clearly went too far. I`m assuming he could have held them up with the shotgun. I won`t call him a hero or murderer, but will stay perfectly on the fence.
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Male 2,422
In a court of law, in front of a jury of their peers, those two would have gotten a few years max. This man handed out a death sentence on his own initiative. Lethal force is justified only in defending one`s own life or the life of another and seeing as how his life was not in danger and that his neighbors were gone there was no reason to confront a pair of petty crooks with a shotgun. He went out there looking to execute them. Fifty years ago he would be the kind of guy leading a lynch mob.

You know what`s even worse than stealing TVs? Defying the rule of law our society is built upon and taking the deliberative process of Justice and placing it into the hands of a hillbilly with a gun.
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Female 2,674
Criminals have no rights. So it`s perfectly fine to shoot and kill a teenager for stealing a $5 bracelet. It`s perfectly fine to shoot and kill someone for running a red light or speeding. That`s definitely how the law is supposed to work. Do something illegal = get murdered.
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Male 645
Come to my neighborhood with the intent to take things that don`t belong to you... same conclusion, you lying on the ground, taking your last breaths. Criminals have no rights.
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Male 102
Aim low? Why disable the guy? Dead men can`t sue you, seek revenge, or commit crimes against anyone else. It`s never good to have this happen, but they knew the risks they were taking. I would have done the exact same thing(admittedly, with a handgun instead...still don`t have a shotgun). Hell, if he was my neighbor, I would be damned proud.
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Male 41
Thats right. come to Texas to drat with someone, you will get shot. dont worry about the dog, worry about the owner.
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Male 4,235
i hope Joe Horn gose to jail. that was rwrong and uncalled for. is a mans life worth a few hunderd in useless junk?
if he was a cop he would be in a lot of trobble
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Male 86
Joe handed out the death penalty for robbery. Of the crazed right wing americans who agree with this, which of you has never broken the law? Fancy the death penalty any of you?
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Male 4,793
I think he should have done it differently... He should have made them lie down on the ground. Shoot a shell into the ground to scare em if you have to. If they pull weapons, then murdering their asses is completely ok in my book. The way I see it, he saved everybody in his state some tax money because that is two less prisoners they are paying for.
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Male 186
When seconds count the police are only minutes away.
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Male 519
@Thdot If you listen, he says that in response to the operator telling him he`ll get shot if he goes out. His reply doesn`t mean that he`s going to shoot without warning, but that he`ll shoot if they come at him.

What he actually says is that he isn`t going to let them get away, and he`ll protect himself in the process if he has to. He then goes outside and tells them that if they move, they`re dead. They proceeded to move at him, and he killed them.
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Male 2,690
He could`ve aimed low...disable them instead. I didn`t hear any mention of them having guns, in which case aiming high makes sense. Regardless, they were in the wrong and when you commit crimes like that you are risking your life. Either by actually dying or risking losing having a life by rotting in prison.
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Male 10,338
"He exercised restraint by staying on the phone with the police station. The police did not arrive in time to stop the crime being committed on his community, so he stopped it himself."

^^This

"They were two black illegal immigrant criminals in Texas, this was going to happen anyway. I am a fan of the way he casually mentions he has a shotgun and asks if he should take care of it."

^^and This.

"Let`s see, two burglars dead.

Nope, don`t see a downside!"

^^also This.

"He still gave them both a warning not to move, they came across the street figuring the old man isn`t really gonna shoot, and they learned different."

^^I-A-B is growing ever more right.
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Male 125
the video couldn`t be more biased toward gun control, but the man did the right thing. Two fewer potential murderers on the street.
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Male 8,530
Tiredofnicks-"Property is never, ever worth someone`s life."

Diego Ortize obviously thought it was.
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Male 394
If they came on to his property with malicious intent like he claims he was within his rights. You have a right to defend your property with deadly force if necessary. The dispatcher on the phone advised him not to go outside for his own safety, and not because he would be committing a crime by defending a neighbor`s property. It doesn`t surprise me that he wasn`t charged. I bet the neighbor who was robbed thinks he`s a hero. The man with the family who died, should have been thinking about what would happen to his family without him.
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Male 10,338
Screw that woman. He shouldn`t have been robbing the house in the first place.

Hooray for Castle laws.
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Male 657
@RuralNinja, he did not go outside to confront and verbally order them. He went outside to kill them. At 30 seconds he tells the 911 operator, "I`m gonna kill them."
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Male 7,378
Don`t teach your kids to steal.
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Male 1,091
Ass.
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Male 17,511
Yup, they shoot burglars in Texas, no surprise there. No sympathy for those burglars, they should`ve known better.
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Male 519
So he sees two thugs desecrating his neighbor`s home and goes out to confront them. They proceed to enter his property, disregard his clear verbal orders to not move, proceed to advance on him, and make the last idiotic mistake of their lives. I see nothing wrong here.

Whether you believe it was justified or not, his actions were legal and allowable. I`d have him as a neighbor.
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Male 39,900

Neither hero nor villain. Just a guy.

And if criminals knew they could get killed in the act I would bet real money we would have less crime. As it is, crooks are confidant you can`t do anything to them.
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Male 219
So if a robber hurts himself in your house they can sue you... but if you shoot them while they rob someone elses it`s all good?
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Male 3,331
Murderer.
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Male 3,207
We do not need more and better equipped police, we need more and better equipped civillians.
Kudos to this guy.
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Male 1,471
So it`s the death penalty for theft then?.. That`s just immoral..
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Male 5,094
Property is never, ever worth someone`s life.
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Male 8,530
Joe Horn was attempting to stop the burglery of his neighbor. He asked them to stop. They came for him. One is now dead.

Diego Ortize was no family man. He was a criminal.

If Diego Ortize thought that his life was worth the junk he was stealing, who am I to argue?

Stealing other people`s stuff is not a safe career in Texas.

Way to go, Joe. I wouldn`t mind having him as a neighbor.
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Female 2,674
He said multiple times he`d kill them. It`s understandable if he meant to harm them but not kill them, but it really seems like he intended to kill them (and it wasn`t a situation that warranted killing).
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Male 385
Hero
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Male 106
"I feel like he wanted to shoot him"

God damned right he did. He still gave them both a warning not to move, they came across the street figuring the old man isn`t really gonna shoot, and they learned different.

This is texas, you new york-based BBC anchor. We have the castle doctrine which to plainly failed to mention in your rush to paint the story in a stilted manner. Castle doctrine states quite clearly that so long as you reasonably believe you are acting as your neighbor would want you to act, you may take lethal action in defense of their property, just as you could in defense of your own.

The statute of limitations on murder is 5 years, and he won`t ever be charged. You rob someone, you knowingly take the risk of being shot for it. They deserved it.
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Male 2,669
Let`s see, two burglars dead.

Nope, don`t see a downside!
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Female 1,566
They were two black illegal immigrant criminals in Texas, this was going to happen anyway. I am a fan of the way he casually mentions he has a shotgun and asks if he should take care of it.
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Male 331
I support Joe. Hell to all that try to oppose me. :)

The robbers got what they deserve, they tried to take Joe`s property, Joe returned the favor by taking their life. Equivalent exchange.
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Male 219
A 4 year old case that ended up with Mr. Horn never being charged. They came into the yard after clearly being told to stop...oh...illegal immigration status on both robbers btw...

In any case, 4 years old is a little outside the statute of limitations.
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Male 4,593
I say give him a goddam medal.
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Male 340
He exercised restraint by staying on the phone with the police station. The police did not arrive in time to stop the crime being committed on his community, so he stopped it himself.
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Male 190
Murderer ... a nice family... christian man... who just killed two people. mmmm seems a little screwy
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Male 1,510
Meh, two less burglars now. Thanks Joe.
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Male 65
ok you cant post news that is four years old its now called olds
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Male 910
Oh wait, never mind. i was having this weird delusion that we had a fair justice system.
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Male 1,471
well hurray for the second amendment.. right guys??.. :S
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Male 910
Despite the robbers being scum of the earth crooks, the guy had no right to end their lives for theft. Definitely murder..
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Male 267
Meh, looks like he just took out some trash.
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Female 8,043
Link: Joe Horn - Neighborhood Hero Or Murderer? [Rate Link] - The 911 call from Joe Horn as he catches 2 burglars at his neighbors home. Would you want Joe to be your neighbor I-A-B?
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