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Date: 11/11/11 04:45 PM

129 Responses to Should Muslims Be In The American Military?

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 4:01 pm
    Link: Should Muslims Be In The American Military? - Tennessee State Rep. Rick Womick calls for the military purging of all Muslim Americans. Agree or Disagree I-A-B?
  2. Profile photo of fungsho
    fungsho Male 30-39
    20 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 5:00 pm
    doesn`t he worship the same violent Abrahamic god as the Muslims?
  3. Profile photo of Dogboy76
    Dogboy76 Male 30-39
    156 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 5:01 pm
    Yes they should.
  4. Profile photo of pianok
    pianok Male 50-59
    320 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 5:10 pm
    I think "only" muslim american soldiers should be in the battles. That way nobody can say it is a religious war. JMIO
  5. Profile photo of honkeylips
    honkeylips Male 30-39
    1586 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 5:11 pm
    Did we get rid of all the German, Japanese, and Italian soldiers during WWII?
  6. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2343 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 5:15 pm
    Just another guy standing in front of a banner that touts freedom, wanting to screw folks out of THEIR freedoms.
    And working with his point of view, I guess we need to purge the Catholics as well- They pledge fealty to that pedophile in Vatican City.
  7. Profile photo of Klivel
    Klivel Male 18-29
    106 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 5:24 pm
    I served in the army. I served alongside soldiers of many different faiths. Muslims, jews, christians of every conceivable stripe, atheists, Buddhists, one Satanist, and even a follower of japanese shinto beliefs. Their personal beliefs had no impact whatsoever on 99% of those I served with. It was their own business. What I cared about was having someone next to me who swore the same oath to defend the constitution that I swore. Outside of that, I could care less. This guy is an idiot.
  8. Profile photo of Scotchy
    Scotchy Male 18-29
    592 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 5:58 pm
    @honkey, not sure about the germans and italians, but for the most part we did with the american-japanese and sent them to internment camps for most of the war
  9. Profile photo of neojester12
    neojester12 Male 18-29
    141 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:00 pm
    I think what`s important to keep in mind here is that he is technically correct... that can all be found in the doctrine of the Muslim faith. However, he is being completely thick in his point. It isn`t as though Christians follow the verses of slavery or female abuse or strange poo in the bible either. We all choose what we want to believe, and 99 percent of muslims choose not to take it to that extreme. So no, of course there should not be a religious screening process in place... it would have to screen out almost every religion in order not to be a threat to national security.
  10. Profile photo of collegebound
    collegebound Male 18-29
    3745 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:06 pm
    Dogboy76: "Yes they should."

    tell you what...if you can give me a legit reason as to WHY in the next 24 hours i wont rage at you over the internet because i have nothing else to do...
  11. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:06 pm
    In task force green, we were required to work with actual muslims frequently. Both in a cooperative manner and a less than cooperative manner. I don`t trust ACTUAL muslims, that is, muslim/christian/jewish-americans are for the most part, far from actual believers in my experience.

    I`m sorry, but I`d never lock my sister in a room with ANY Iraqi or Afghan I`ve met in my past along with an M-16.

    It`s hard to suggest deeper background checks with regards to enlistment, but failing in that endeavor has known consequences. One of which we see as a hard to swallow, but far from unjustified suggestion of removing all muslims. Then where do you stop? Mexican-americans with known MS-13 ties have used the american military. Caucasians with known skinhead ties have as well.
  12. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:09 pm
    "99 percent of muslims"

    99 percent of WESTERN muslims.
  13. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3919 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:13 pm
    I hope this hateful man gets voted out of office. I am appalled. He is so un-American.
  14. Profile photo of snakecharmer
    snakecharmer Male 18-29
    321 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:17 pm
    If what he is saying is true, then yes I agree, but you never know he could be one of them too!
  15. Profile photo of ctobin34
    ctobin34 Male 18-29
    66 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:21 pm
    as long as they dont wanna blow us up. Nadal Hassan, enough said
  16. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3919 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:22 pm
    This is what cable news does to people. It turns them into hateful partisan a-holes.
  17. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:22 pm
    As long as they through out all the Christians too it`s totally cool.
    Then there will be no one left!

    ZING!

    My only squabble with this guys argument is that he is assuming that America = anti-muslim, doesn`t that go against separation of church & state? Other than that... I have to agree.

    But is this a problem? Where are the statistics on treason by muslims within the US military? Are there any?

    If you`re an islamic extremist, the last thing you`re going to do is enlist in the US military.
  18. Profile photo of skypirate
    skypirate Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:26 pm
    If you`re an islamic extremist, the last thing you`re going to do is enlist in the US military.

    you can always do more damage from within...but I think if you were going to invest that much in becoming a spy you wouldnt say you were muslim in the first place.
  19. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:40 pm
    Niiiice one. He`s basically reminding all muslim troops that they are at odds with their religion and eternal salvation for not slaughtering their colleagues in an orgy of blue on blue.

    Muslims, Christians, Jews and Jedi should be allowed in the military as long as they are not allowed to hold officer and NCO roles. I wouldn`t want someone who lives their lives according to teachings of imaginary friends or who claim a higher law than their orders and secular law to command other men or to possess weapons more effective than a sharpened plastic teaspoon.
  20. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:40 pm
    hmmm the country founded by those escaping religious persecution in Europe!
  21. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    I have many thoughts on this subject. Each one as stupid as the one before.

    The concept of equality among differant peoples is basically flawed.
    It assumes all people involved are equally evolved socially.
    Those from 3rd world muslim countries are not civilized to the
    same point as the rest of the world. They are not ready to join civilized
    nations.

    Therefore, no, I would not let any 3rd world muslims in the military, or even
    within our borders. Deport them all. Home grown muslims are less likely to
    be extremist idealogues. That`s not a 100% perfect theory, but it works.

    Okay, someone can disagree and shoot me down now. Doesn`t matter.
  22. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    @ McDuff73 - Common misconception. No, the U.S. was not founded on religious freedom.
    One (1) colony at Salem, the Pilgrims, were religious zealots but they were
    not founding a nation. The U.S. was founded on government with represntation.
    That worked for a bout 200 years before it went caput.

    @ LazyMe484 - An extremist wouldn`t join the military? Tell the survivors
    at Fort Hood that.
  23. Profile photo of blargfrit
    blargfrit Male 18-29
    79 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:00 pm
    Doesn`t anyone remember Japanese internment camps?
  24. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:06 pm
    "As long as they through out all the Christians too it`s totally cool"

    Throw! I meant throw! Oh God, I made a typo on the internet.

    But hey, if you want to confirm Al-qaeda`s propaganda about America`s involvement in the Middle east being a new Crusade against Islam go ahead and do it.
  25. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:07 pm
    This is something that Adolf Hitler would prepose.
  26. Profile photo of mr_c_bowler
    mr_c_bowler Male 18-29
    301 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:07 pm
    I think his argument is well thought out. I also think that his argument has some grounds to stand on (i.e. the threat he is speaking about). But I do not think that you can force all Muslims out of the military. It just isn`t right on too many levels
  27. Profile photo of Ruffiana
    Ruffiana Male 30-39
    506 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:12 pm
    I very much believe in the ideal of religious freedom so I would say yes...a Muslim American has every right to serve in the US military.

    Frankly, trying to purge them would only drive them underground like the homosexuals who served in secret for decades and sends a very clear, negative message to exactly the people who already believe the western world is out to get them personally because of their beliefs.
  28. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:15 pm
    I don`t know Gerry, I`ve grown up in London and found a lot of the home grown muslims to be every bit as likely to blow themselves and their neighbours to kingdom come as the imports, more even, because they want to prove their faith and because someone no doubt has cellphone footage of them dragging on a joint in a nightclub.

    At college, I sat through one course unit with a chap called K. Malik. He asked me what my religion was. Sensing what was coming, I replied "Anglican" (of course you know I`m an Atheist). This kicked off a near-endless discussion about the relative merits of religions.

    I think I all but convinced him that both religions were bull but failed to converty him to apostacy.

    Those were more innocent times, but I am sure he still has fantasies about beheading me.
  29. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:16 pm
    "I have many thoughts on this subject. Each one as stupid as the one before."

    I find it so odd when left wing suburbanites campaign for equality without ever having experienced the type of people they are saying are "equal" to themselves. None of what you said was stupid. The vast majority of the people I met overseas are neanderthalic in their views on how the world should behave, while also being exceptionally modern in the manner in which they`d like to achieve such a state.

    Really, the idea "extremists" wouldn`t join the US military (Where an exceptional amount of rapid training and vast amounts of munitions are available.) shows just how disconnected a suburbanite can be. Extremists from ALL aspects of society have been shown to be present in the US forces.
  30. Profile photo of RyanHake
    RyanHake Male 18-29
    2690 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:16 pm
    He knows what he`s talking about..If you do actually study up on all of it that is what they`re supposed to believe. Devout Muslims are instructed to do anything they can, lie cheat steal etc to bring others to their religion or to kill them. But on another note...I really feel like there are probably a ton of "Muslims" out there nowadays that aren`t really Muslim. Just like some people CLAIM to be Christian. We have Muslims in the US that left their home country because of ridiculous Muslim laws there...yet they stay Muslim.
  31. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:16 pm
    As a nation, (national policy) why be against a religion, race or ethnicity? The actions ( military or otherwise should be against the acts committed.
    The smart thing to do is turn the vast majority of regular -law abiding, cheering at sports, sending their kids to school to get education, as we do- muslims to be our allies.
    Hate, discrimination or distrust has not, will not solve the problem.
    What I have never understood is the rhetoric of fundamental Islamist that blames the west for it`s problems, no one has more money or power then the oil sheiks. What have they done for the poor muslims?
    The money that got the infidels, as the call it on the holy grounds comes from the oil barons.
    The only way to get through to the poor, have nothing to loose, blind faith followers is to educate them of these realities. Has anyone one got a smart solution for doing that? Time consuming, yes but with lasting and guaranteed outcome of peace.

  32. Profile photo of sutra46
    sutra46 Female 40-49
    2550 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:21 pm
    One I can think of is to develop other means of energy. End the dependance on oil. Pull out all troups and if necessary all commerce and wash the hands off.
    Then invite them into the civilized world one sports game at the time, one donated hospital, one donated library, one irrigation technology...
    Change the game.
    Stop reacting to the stimulus like a chimp. Take time for the mental process.
  33. Profile photo of Tetragramma
    Tetragramma Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:24 pm
    I doubt that anyone here has read the Koran. I haven`t. Then again, I`ve never read any of the Vedas or any ancient Egyptian texts honoring any of their gods. And I, just like anyone here stating anything about the Muslim faith, can tell you that they all want to kill all Christians and destroy our fabulous, awe-inspiring and perfect government. Because I believe in Jeebus.
  34. Profile photo of tacks
    tacks Female 18-29
    155 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:29 pm
    It`s official - Tennessee can`t be taken seriously.
  35. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:36 pm
    Fight bigotry with bigotry.. what a wonderful idea.. I can`t believe nobody thought of that before...
  36. Profile photo of Edgarska19
    Edgarska19 Male 18-29
    1045 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:44 pm
    Maybe he should take his head out of his ass first.
  37. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:46 pm
    I`d put them through the `bacon test`, they`d have to cook 4 slices and eat them. That would weed out the ones that too devout to fulfill their loyalty oath.
  38. Profile photo of collegebound
    collegebound Male 18-29
    3745 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:49 pm
    Draculya: i read it but failed to find a valid excuse as to why they should not be allowed to serve.

    thank you come again :)
  39. Profile photo of collegebound
    collegebound Male 18-29
    3745 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:51 pm
    CrakrJak: ever heard of Immortal Technique ?
  40. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3359 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 7:56 pm
    @CrakrJak: Well, there go the Jews, and people trying to eat healthy. Way to go, dude.
  41. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3359 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 8:00 pm
    McDuff73 said: "hmmm the country founded by those escaping religious persecution in Europe!"

    Every conservative Republican just started gnawing on their sneakers with frustration knowing that you...are...right. Bravo.
  42. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 8:03 pm
    "Well, there go the Jews"

    The only jew I knew in the military ate bacon regularly.

    Aren`t many jews in the military. I`d be surprised if there were more than 50 rabbi`s in the entirety of the armed forces.
  43. Profile photo of Tetragramma
    Tetragramma Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 8:07 pm
    The words of Jesus preach pacifism. Should all Christians be barred from service because of that?
  44. Profile photo of Buzzard250
    Buzzard250 Male 18-29
    342 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 8:18 pm
    You dont follow the bible 100 percent do you?
  45. Profile photo of Tetragramma
    Tetragramma Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 8:25 pm
    Yes I do. I throw rocks at adulterers, eat kosher, I do not wear clothes of mixed fiber (barring acrylic blends), I observe all Jewish holidays (which is awesome in terms of time off) and I get home before sundown on Fridays. Additionally, I am a pacifist. So there.
  46. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 8:45 pm
    jtrebowski: I`m not asking that it be a daily part of their diet, It`s a test, you want to make it healthier ? make a BLT out of it and hold the mayo.

    The bacon test is about devoutness, if you can`t set aside your religious diet, one time, to fulfill your military oath, then it`s not likely you`ll do it concerning other matters.
  47. Profile photo of cola3
    cola3 Male 18-29
    55 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 8:57 pm
    cant we all just get along?
  48. Profile photo of Tetragramma
    Tetragramma Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 9:01 pm
    Nope. That doesn`t apply. If your faith is to not drink a drop of alcohol, then it would necessitate denying your religion to be tested as such. Because the 1st Amendment ensures freedom of religion, what you propose is unconstitutional. If you did institute that, then you would have an army that is essentially exclusionary to the point of discrimination. How bout you let people have their (tenuous) beliefs, hmm? How bout every prospective soldier has to rape someone? what then? Is it not abhorrent to you?
  49. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 9:04 pm
    @collegebound no problem. I am sure you did your level best.
  50. Profile photo of Tetragramma
    Tetragramma Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 9:08 pm
    hat`s an entirely arrogant thing to say, Draculya.
  51. Profile photo of cola3
    cola3 Male 18-29
    55 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 9:11 pm
    womick is just asking for a sweaty ball sack to be rubbed on his face.
  52. Profile photo of C_Frost
    C_Frost Male 30-39
    130 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 9:46 pm
    he must feel naked without his sheet and burning cross
  53. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 9:48 pm
    The words of Jesus preach pacifism.
    False. Google Luke 22:36.

    The problem with Muslims is that the military requires an oath to, among other things, "...support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." However, the Koran says it is acceptable to lie under certain circumstances, such as when waging Jihad against the infidels (that`s us) to further the cause of Islam.

    A Muslim may be a loyal American, but since there is no way to know for sure, his oath is meaningless. I don`t think there`s any argument that the total contributions of Muslims to the U.S. armed forces cannot make up for the damage done by one single Muslim Jihadist: the Ft. Hood mass murderer Maj. Nidal Hasan.

    I say give them all honorable discharges and bid them farewell.

  54. Profile photo of nospoons
    nospoons Male 18-29
    184 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 10:16 pm
    Agree.
  55. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 10:25 pm
    Ah yes. The old "we allow religious people, as long as they`re OUR kind of religious people" schtick. Didn`t work so well in Northern Ireland where I grew up.

    Look, for f*ck sake. You can read the Q`Ran as a religious text that compels every Muslim to kill the infidels.

    Likewise, you can read the Bible to be everyone that wears polyester/cotton mix clothes to be put to death (giving the homos a break here).

    Bottom line is; people are retarded. Imagine for a second how stupid the average person is. Got that? Good. By definition, 50% are more retarded than that. Think about that for a second.

    Here`s a crazy thought, which I`ve extended before. Most Islamophobic Conservative I`ve encountered have never been outside the US. F*ck, many have never been outside their own state.

    Go talk to a Muslim. drat that, go meet someone from France. Or Russia. China, whatever, seriously, just do it. It might just change the way you think of sh*t
  56. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 10:26 pm
    hat`s true, Tetragramma
  57. Profile photo of Tetragramma
    Tetragramma Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 10:37 pm
    Aha! Yes, hat is an arrogant thing to say, it`s true. It goes over most people`s heads. However, when someone claimed that they didn`t find an arguments against Muslims in the military, you agreed, because you believed that that person did their best. However, that assumes that the person didn`t understand your argument. Isn`t that arrogant?
  58. Profile photo of Tetragramma
    Tetragramma Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 10:42 pm
    And yes, OldOllie, Luke 22:36 Jesus tells you to buy a sword and sell your cloak. Which would make sense for everyone, if Jesus was in fact gathering his people to travel, which required protection. It`s not an act of war or aggression to defend yourself. However, it is an act of aggression and violence to invade another country.
  59. Profile photo of skine
    skine Male 18-29
    719 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 10:45 pm
    You see, the Muslims hate America!

    I know! We should ban them from America! All of them! Problem solved!

    There`s no possible way that this could backfire and create more Muslim extremists who hate America!
  60. Profile photo of lolphotoshop
    lolphotoshop Male 13-17
    392 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 11:06 pm
    Disa-drating-gree. In a country that prides itself on freedom of religion, a political officer sure is ignoring that whole amendment.
  61. Profile photo of cody123100
    cody123100 Male 18-29
    21 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 11:06 pm
    OldOllie, oaths are worthless in all cases. Oaths aren`t worthless because another oath says you can lie when you commit to an different oath. Oaths are worthless because, as stated in the A Song of Ice and Fire series many times, words are air.

    Also, apparently by your logic no contributions to society by Christians cannot make up for the damage done by Jeffrey Dahmer who attempted to liquify the brains of young men by drilling into their skulls and pouring corrosive chemicals into them in order to make sex slaves out of them and then consumed their remains. So I guess we should put all Christians in jail for the crime of this one! Also Dahmer killed more men than the Fort Hood shooter. So did that Asian guy at Virginia Tech. You don`t damn an entire group of people for the actions of a single one, because if you take a good look at the labels you define yourself with you`ll find some pretty horrible monsters who defined themselves by those same labels.
  62. Profile photo of AWalrus
    AWalrus Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 11, 2011 at 11:21 pm
    I don`t agree at all with what he says, but I can at least respect the manner in which he`s saying it. At least he doesn`t seem 100% hate-driven.
  63. Profile photo of Viking864
    Viking864 Male 40-49
    1444 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 12:42 am
    Funny thing is Muhammad is pictured in the Supreme court. What an idiot
  64. Profile photo of life009
    life009 Male 18-29
    2 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 1:14 am
    that is good idear! i like it
  65. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 1:14 am
    @davy

    I`m far from a conservative, been essentially everywhere populated in Iraq and Afghanistan, throughout the UAE and the mediterranean. I`ve been required to maintain a working relationship with muslims from India, Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq, and Turkey. There isn`t a polite thing I can say about any of them. These were all men of course, so, I don`t know, maybe the ACTUAL muslim women are okay.

    Either way, as an Atheist, I don`t find one redeeming quality in devout Muslims. Westernized (To include the majority of the populace of the UAE) "muslims" may be what most people think of when they say "That guy is a muslim" but when I think muslim, I automatically go to extremist zealot.
  66. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 1:39 am
    Oldollie:

    Cryptochristianity. Look it up. Suck it up. No Christian can be in your military.

    The rules of "Taqiyya", the specific thing you`re talking about, is not found in the Quran, is Shiia specific. Even amongst them, the rules are specific: You can lie to protect your life, not to "Further the cause of Islam".

    When the people you listen to talk to you about it, to tell you about how "we can`t trust those pesky muslims", they`re deceiving you.

    Actual Taqiyya.

    If any of you would like this to be the topic of formal debate you finally man up to accepting, I`d be happy to oblige.
  67. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 1:50 am
    Scuzoid:

    You`re just a westernized atheist. Not a real Atheist of Soviet Russia. If you were a real atheist, you`d be supporting genocide and spouting anti-American rhetoric, and should be barred from contribution to the US military... right?

    Weak arguments preying upon pre-existing prejudices are not arguments at all.

    "when I think muslim, I automatically go to extremist zealot."
    That is exactly what bigotry looks like.

    Your political leanings are irrelevant.
  68. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 2:12 am
    TLDR:
    "You are commanded to kill"
    "You are commanded to lie"
    "That`s called Taqiyya"

    Whenever an ignoramus knows less than 10 Arabic words, and one of those is a complex minority theological concept, you can rest assured that definition is horsepoo he`s had cherry picked for him by someone with a cause.

    Source 1, source 2, source 3.
  69. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 2:33 am
    "You`re just a westernized atheist. Not a real Atheist of Soviet Russia."
    Okay.

    "If you were a real atheist...barred from contribution to the US military"
    Fine by me.

    "Weak arguments"
    When the topic is "the only people who dislike muslims are THESE people." my argument is far from weak.

    "That is exactly what bigotry looks like."
    Why do you think I don`t already know that? I`d rather be alive than moral. I didn`t kill strangers because god commanded me to. I did it because it was necessary.

    "Your political leanings are irrelevant."
    A part of the point I was trying to make for Davy.

    You contest the idea devout christians shouldn`t be in the military, even devout "atheists," as if that exists, but can you explain why devout muslims SHOULD be in the US military?
  70. Profile photo of Reignblazer
    Reignblazer Male 18-29
    2334 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 3:01 am
    There`s no point in being `tolerant` when people`s lives are at stake. Better to step on someone`s toes than have blood on your hands I say ^^

    Conflict, and its endresult (war), will exist for as long as people have differing opinions. Which is pretty much, forever.

    Having said that it would be wise to let go of this archaic concept of religion and people could actually focus their efforts towards the advancement of the human race instead of being divided.

    /idealism
  71. Profile photo of Arcval
    Arcval Male 18-29
    304 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 3:26 am
    There`s no crime in the Koran that`s not in the bible somewhere. It`s all the same old poo.
  72. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 3:29 am
    "When the topic is..."
    That was not the topic. The topic is quite readily available in the title of this thread.

    You`ve also completely misunderstood the point being made.

    Let me repeat in new words: Your argument suggests YOU should not be allowed to serve, because of a label, that I have defined.

    It doesn`t matter if the definition is wrong.
    It doesn`t matter if you differ from that definition.

    Logic:
    You are a X.
    X is Y.
    Y cannot Z.
    Ergo, you cannot Z.

    Fine. Except when statement 2 is bullpoo.

    Examples of false statement 2`s in history:
    X= Jews, Blacks, Americans, Muslims.
    Y = Baby eaters, Cannibals, Crusaders, Oathbreakers.
    Z = Live, Vote, Govern, Serve.

    "I <killed> because it was necessary".
    That sentence seems like it needs an "I thought" somewhere in there.
  73. Profile photo of Buiadh
    Buiadh Male 30-39
    6739 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 3:30 am
    [email protected]
  74. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 3:33 am
    And finally, whilst I don`t expect Crakr to grow a pair and answer honestly and directly:

    What religious test should be included for Christians in the military, to ensure they will not hesitate to abandon their faith, under fire?
  75. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 3:54 am
    "That was not the topic."
    Very well, situate forum etiquette with your other mods then.

    "Let me repeat in new words"
    It wasn`t necessary to do so. To reiterate, I in no way feel muslim-americans (Keep in mind, Americans are not the only people in the US armed forces. As odd as that may be.) should be "purged" from the US armed forces. That said, it wasn`t necessary because BOTH our definitions of a stereotypical "westernized" and "true" weren`t conveniently taken from the same news report. They perception isn`t far from the reality, only one exists and the other doesn`t.

    "That sentence seems like it needs an"
    It didn`t.

    I will contend a devout christian has no place in the US military. Do explain how a muslim is any different.
  76. Profile photo of Dogboy76
    Dogboy76 Male 30-39
    156 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 4:02 am
    collegebound: "tell you what...if you can give me a legit reason as to WHY in the next 24 hours i wont rage at you over the internet because i have nothing else to do..."

    That should an be interesting rant. Considering we seem to be of similar opinion.

    I you are indeed `college bound` then you would do well to understand the question posed.

    "Should Muslims Be In The American Military?"

    Yes they should.
  77. Profile photo of hellhawk
    hellhawk Male 18-29
    31 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 4:09 am
    @(cola3: cant we all just get along?)
    unfortunately no. because of the politics.

    @(C_Frost: he must feel naked without his sheet and burning cross)
    LOL totally agree
  78. Profile photo of Jowsh
    Jowsh Male 18-29
    1237 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 4:31 am
    It`s ridiculous that this question is even asked- By this logic why don`t you ban Christians from the military because of the KKK`s actions in the name of their religion? The actions of few do not speak for the actions of the many.
  79. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 4:35 am
    "I will contend a devout christian has no place in the US military. Do explain how a muslim is any different."

    I do not contend a devout Christian has no place in the US military. I also therefore make no, and need no, claims of difference for Muslims.

    Secondly, I feel no need to justify Muslims in the Military from your fictitious characterizations any more than I feel the need to justify white participation in the military from accusations of being the Death Eaters from Harry Potter.

    Storytelling is not an accurate representation of the world.
  80. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 4:43 am
    Being that religion... the very concept and idea of it... in all forms, is the sole reason why humanity will never make it off this planet and therefore is assuring the destruction of the human race in the future-- I think religion has zero place anywhere at all and should be destroyed by any means possible.

    Yes, totally serious.
  81. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 4:49 am
    To clarify:

    There is no reason to characterize a reason for expulsion, if the reason for expulsion is legitimate.

    "You can`t do X in the military" can be fine.

    If X is general (Rape, Run, Put lives in danger, fail fitness test, have bad vision, steal), and has genuine reasons;

    If X is irrelevant (Be Christian, Be Muslim, Be Black, Be Hispanic, Be ugly, Be a WBC member), it`s discriminatory.

    If you want to say "but being WBC means you hate soldiers", you don`t need to outlaw WBC, you outlaw anti-soldier behavior, and the rest becomes irrelevant, whether the statement about WBC is true or false.

    You`re talking about going after labels. That`s idiotic. Substance is all that matters.
  82. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 4:59 am
    Regardless of whether or not we think it`s immoral to purge the military of Muslim Americans, the simple fact is that it`s unconstitutional.

    The first amendment grants us the freedom of religion by making it illegal for congress to make any law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof.

    By purging the military of a specific religion, this would not only be violating the first amendment, but it would also be a matter of religious descrimination.

    Does Rick Womack really want to be the next Hitler?
  83. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 5:03 am
    Hes got a point, devout muslims are bad to have in the military.
    Then again though, devout christians in the military would also be a bad idea. Do you really want ppl in the military who strictly adhere to the bible, and for example, turn the other cheek when fired at?

    Anyone strictly abyding to any religious book is a threat, in the military and in other places.
  84. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 5:03 am
    The Christian Holy Bible also commands the death of others.

    Exodus 22:18
    "Suffer not a witch to live."
  85. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 6:25 am
    Baal: I wasn`t talking about a test that would "ensure they will not hesitate to abandon their faith, under fire". I`m not asking that everyone "abandon their faith", the test is about what you put first Loyalty or Faith.

    I`m talking about testing for the likes of extremists like Pvt. Nasser Jason Abdo, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, and others before they join the military ranks.

    If you are asking, I wouldn`t want WBC idiots in the military either, although their philosophy is such that they would not even attempt to join anyways.
  86. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 6:35 am
    RobSwindol: Back when Exodus was written, Moses had no clue about what we would call a `Wiccan` today. The `witches` Exodus talks about are something altogether different, we would liken them to satanists today.

    And if you are going to mention the `Salem Witch Trials` be assured that no actual `wiccans` were killed, only those falsely accused of being in league with satan. Just thought you should know.
  87. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 6:48 am
    Rednecks are just so unAmerican.
  88. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 7:38 am
    madest: Dippy hippies, like yourself, are `unAmerican` and feel like they have to slander everyone else just to seem more normal.
  89. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 8:09 am
    Change military rations to include large amounts of bacon. Every morning with eggs.

    Problem f*cking solved.
  90. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 8:20 am
    Seriously, tell me what`s wrong with changing rations to include more bacon?
  91. Profile photo of i-am-evil
    i-am-evil Male 18-29
    510 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 8:23 am
    Everything he said about the Quran is true according to what I`ve learned myself, but that is only if you take everything literally. That is a very big IF. The vast majority of Muslims don`t follow everything word for word that is in the Quran. The vast majority of Christians don`t follow everything that is in the bible word for word either.

    Forcing Muslims out of the military would be taking things way too far. There`s nothing much that can be done, but NCO and officers should be mindful of the Muslims in their platoons.
  92. Profile photo of i-am-evil
    i-am-evil Male 18-29
    510 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 8:25 am
    I have had my fair share of MREs, but I don`t remember ever having any with pork products in them.
  93. Profile photo of jops360
    jops360 Male 30-39
    689 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 9:05 am
    is freedom of religion still part of the US? whats next, putting them all in determent camps and then giving them gas showers. reminds me of someone else we didnt like.
  94. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 9:37 am
    Why is this even an issue?
  95. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 9:41 am
    LazyMe: Because then they would scream `discrimination`. My one time bacon test would do the same without having to change the current MREs.

    Although I have to say, most troops would love to have some bacon in their MREs.
  96. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 9:42 am
    Cajun: Look up `Fort Hood attack` on Google, you`ll see why.
  97. Profile photo of Tetragramma
    Tetragramma Male 18-29
    65 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 10:13 am
    You could also look up all the murders committed on US soil by soldiers. Also the Mahmudiyah killings.
    Mahumidyah Killings

    Killing is killing. There`s no moral justification for killing.
  98. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 10:26 am
    What the f*ck do you mean "agree or disagree"? Are you insane? Are we really going to institutionalize more religious intolerance? F*ck you, f*ck him, f*ck this country.
  99. Profile photo of Jammey
    Jammey Male 18-29
    239 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 10:50 am
    "Killing is killing. There`s no moral justification for killing."

    Wow. There`s no moral justification for sweeping generalisations.
  100. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36834 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    "Killing is killing. There`s no moral justification for killing."
    Would you like a glass of water? Something to occupy your mind?

    @ RobSwindal - Exodus 22:18 "Suffer not a witch to live" is a mistranslation.
    The original hebrew word meaning "poisoner" was mistaken for "witch".
    I`m not a witch, nor a poisoner. Just throwing that out there.
  101. Profile photo of inversegrav
    inversegrav Male 30-39
    770 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 12:14 pm
    dis guy is a bozo
  102. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 12:37 pm
    @CrakrJak

    That was an isolated incident. So, why is allowing Muslims to serve in the armed forces an issue?
  103. Profile photo of Edgarska19
    Edgarska19 Male 18-29
    1045 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 1:11 pm
    Wow, so much stupidity in one post( and it`s comments).
  104. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 1:26 pm
    "The `witches` Exodus talks about are something altogether different, we would liken them to satanists today"

    And a satanist is somebody who worships the devil, a false god, spreading false teachings etc etc.
    AKA any god that isn`t yours.

    That only helps the point of the bible being full of this poo more than if it literally meant `witch` or `mythical magical person`.
  105. Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3286 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 2:37 pm
    We can only hope and pray those Muslims don`t take their book too seriously or literally and are just semi-religious, like the Christians in this country.
  106. Profile photo of whodat6484
    whodat6484 Male 30-39
    3909 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 3:03 pm
    That`s ridiculous. The majority of Muslims are peaceful and unfairly labeled as Terrorists. Like the saying goes, "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch"
  107. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm
    Cajun: It wasn`t isolated, After Maj. Hasan went on his rampage AWOL Pvt. Abdo plotted to set off a bomb at the same base. Thankfully, Abdo was caught before his plan was enacted.
  108. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm
    I-IS-BORED: Satanists are a very different, they don`t worship another God, they actively worship the devil.

    Equating satanists with those that worship other deities is wrong and the bible explains the difference quite well, if you`d bother to research it.
  109. Profile photo of GasMaskKid
    GasMaskKid Male 18-29
    694 posts
    November 12, 2011 at 6:16 pm
    most muslims don`t take everything in their holy book literally. they pick and choose, just like any other religion. i asked a muslim friend of mine what he is saying when he prays. he said he prays for the wellbeing of everyone on earth past and present.
  110. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 3:41 am
    @Crakr

    So a shooting and then an attempted bombing a year later? That seems pretty isolated to me.
  111. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 6:05 am
    Cajun: I`m guessing you forgot about the Beltway Sniper as well. John Allen Muhammad was in the Army once too, during his service in the Persian Gulf, he was suspected of throwing a thermite grenade into a tent with 16 of his fellow soldiers.

    I`m guessing you`ll say that too was an isolated incident, right ?
  112. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 6:09 am
    Yep

    Because they all had there own individual motivations for commiting said acts.
  113. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 6:32 am
    Seriously we`re the midst of a moral panic over 3 incidents caused by Muslim soldiers?

    What about Timothy McVeigh, Thomas Campbell and Co, and William Millay?
  114. Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 6:58 am
    he presents a logical argument, I wanted to disagree with him, and on some level i do, but the bottom line is that religious fundamentalists of any religion or denomination should not be allowed in the military as they serve their beliefs before their nation. I am tolerant of tolerant people no matter what their beliefs, but many religious folk believe they know how i should live...I disagree.
  115. Profile photo of photomstr
    photomstr Male 50-59
    766 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 9:33 am
    where do I click the AGREE button? Stupid web master . . .
  116. Profile photo of furryblob
    furryblob Male 18-29
    574 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 10:27 am
    *sigh* another crazy radical republican far out of touch with reality. Join the crowd.
  117. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 11:51 am
    Cajun: None of those people you put forth were motivated by their religion to commit acts of terrorism against their fellow soldiers.
  118. Profile photo of lordastral
    lordastral Male 30-39
    45 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 12:25 pm
    1st Amendment
  119. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 1:35 pm
    None of those people you put forth were motivated by their religion to commit acts of terrorism against their fellow soldiers.

    They`re all criminals nonetheless, and deserve just as much attention as the next.
  120. Profile photo of GothPirate
    GothPirate Female 18-29
    121 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 1:52 pm
    Anyone who agrees with this idiot needs to gtfo my country. If we allow Christians who are equally as insane and malicious as Muslims (which you can take to be quite so, or not at all, the sentiment is the same), we should allow the rest of the stupid beliefs people carry.
  121. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 13, 2011 at 6:11 pm
    GothPirate: ...Christians who are equally as insane and malicious as Muslims...

    You are clearly deranged if you believe that bullcrap. There is more religious freedom in America, a majority Christian nation, than in any majority muslim nation, and that includes tolerance for atheists.
  122. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    November 14, 2011 at 4:53 am
    than in any majority muslim nation

    Except for:

    Albania
    Indonesia
    Kosovo
    Turkey
  123. Profile photo of Dragonace
    Dragonace Male 30-39
    296 posts
    November 14, 2011 at 6:33 am
    "Jim Jones, David Koresh and Meir Kahane do not typify Christianity and Judaism in the eyes of the civilized West, but those same eyes are prone to see Osama bin Laden and Mullah Muhammad Omar as typifying Islam,"

    ~Richard Bulliet
  124. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    November 14, 2011 at 2:26 pm
    How about we just make a worldwide ban on giving the religous weapons?

  125. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    November 14, 2011 at 2:29 pm
    I served with Muslims in the USMC. I would give my life for many of them and they would lay theirs down for many of us.

    Semper Fi means Always Faithful, not only christians.
  126. Profile photo of PtblDuffy
    PtblDuffy Male 18-29
    163 posts
    November 14, 2011 at 2:45 pm
    Agree or Disagree? how is this even a question? Granted we in the US have lost some freedoms since the country originated, but have we really come to be so ignorant of another culture that we could even possibly choose to ban them from serving their country because of a few individuals?
  127. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14652 posts
    November 14, 2011 at 6:35 pm
    I agree with GothPirate and GhettoNinja.

    Christians should serve but only in front line positions of limited authority.
  128. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    November 23, 2011 at 9:35 am
    The religion of Islam is indeed a threat to the western, secular world, but luckily, most muslims are just like most christians: too smart to actually buy their whole holy book. and just believe because of childhood indoctrination. Chances are they never read the nastier parts of the quran, just like sunday school doesn`t teach the uglier parts of the bible.

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