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Date: 11/18/11 08:21 AM

76 Responses to Jon Stewart On Occupy Wall Street

  1. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 8:22 am
    Link: Jon Stewart On Occupy Wall Street - Jon has a point!
  2. Profile photo of burbclaver
    burbclaver Male 50-59
    878 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 8:31 am
    People are people and you can`t change them. On a positive note, the protest seems to collect people from all walks of life.
  3. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2442 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 8:37 am
    The guy at 4:17 is a dumb@ss.

    "I`m more against private property, not personal possession."

    Except for your iPad 2, right? Hypocritical communist assh*le. I`m glad the OWS bullsh*t is over. It was stupid.
  4. Profile photo of heytonashcat
    heytonashcat Male 18-29
    81 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 8:39 am
    Okay, which of Jon`s points are you talking about? The one about no one knowing/caring about the park? Or, the one where there are no toilets in the park? Because, he hardly said anything through the whole video. Just because it`s his show, doesn`t mean he made the point.
  5. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 8:47 am
    Love to watch- can`t!
  6. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36196 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Can we Occupy McDonalds?
    At least while the McRib is back.
  7. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 9:10 am
    "Or, the one where there are no toilets in the park? Because, he hardly said anything through the whole video. Just because it`s his show, doesn`t mean he made the point." His (The show) point was that OWS is full of hypocrites! They are whining about "class warfare" yet they practice the same.

    Oh, and they love to demand free stuff and sharing, and all this warm and fuzzy ideology, but in practice, they want what is there`s and don`t feel THEY should have to share... (Remember the homeless people eating their food? How`d they react to that? Oh yea "We worked for it!" lol - So the truth is, they DO believe in capitalism - But only when it benefits them! Like I said, and as Stewarts show is alluding too - A bunch of hypocrites!
  8. Profile photo of reidcook1000
    reidcook1000 Male 18-29
    382 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 9:19 am
    Gerry, how many times are you going to post about the McRib? I`ve seen twice this week so far, but I`m sure my count is behind.
  9. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 9:30 am
    Maybe we should just start conditioning people to accept their class-status. Soma, anyone?
  10. Profile photo of wolladude
    wolladude Male 30-39
    361 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 9:51 am
    Funny, same thing happened to occupy LA, they got divided too.
  11. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 9:54 am
    Cuthere:
    "Oh, and they love to demand free stuff and sharing, and all this warm and fuzzy ideology, but in practice, they want what is there`s and don`t feel THEY should have to share... (Remember the homeless people eating their food? How`d they react to that? Oh yea "We worked for it!" lol - So the truth is, they DO believe in capitalism - But only when it benefits them!"

    The OWS was never against capitalism as a movement.

    They are against:
    Corporate lobbying.
    Government subsidies for oil companies.
    Low corporate tax rates.
    Bank bailouts.
    Corporate interference in government.
    etc.

    You mislabel that as "against capitalism".
    Then whenever evidence pops up that is contrary to your mislabel, you don`t go "Whoops, I was wrong", you go "They must be BOTH ANTI and PRO!"
  12. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 10:02 am
    "Except for your iPad 2, right? Hypocritical communist assh*le."

    There is a distinct difference, between "everyone should have food" and "Everyone should have my food".

    There is an ideological, economic, mathematical, and logical difference between "I want taxes (including my own) raised 1%, to feed 30 million people", and "Here, one dude, take my food, I`ll just die in a corner and make no large scale impact".

    You`re not an imbecile. You shouldn`t need this explained to you.
  13. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 10:11 am
    To better illustrate the example pooptart:
    I`ve given poor people computers. I`ve given them second hand ones. I`ve bought them new ones.

    I will end up giving this one away some day.

    I still own a computer... it has my files on it. I work on it. I`m not going to give it away now, while it is mine. I don`t expect anyone else to.

    It has never been an aspect of my ideology that anyone should. I`ve never told or asked anyone to. There is nothing hypocritical about both ownership AND wanting other people to own something.

    drat, have you never given less than your entire life savings to charity? It`s not an all or nothing concept.
  14. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 10:21 am
    I`d contribute, but I don`t think I can say it any better than Baalthazaq.

    People are constantly misinterpreting the movement as promoting redistribution of wealth, and as being against capitalism. It isn`t. It`s about the unfair levels of representation that corporations and "1%-ers" get in our government, because they have the money to make themselves heard, and the money to influence politicians into making it even easier for them to accrue more wealth, while at the same time making it harder for everyone else to do the same.
  15. Profile photo of i-am-evil
    i-am-evil Male 18-29
    510 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 11:24 am
    I`m tired of the OWS stuff. Can we please move on to something else?
  16. Profile photo of PhotoKing
    PhotoKing Male 30-39
    526 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 12:21 pm
    i`m tired of seeing this myself. unless they all have a plan that could actually work, then they should just all go home. because in the end nothing will changed, as it hasn`t for a very long time.

    the next thing we`ll see is them suing the city when they freeze to death sleeping in the park during an ice storm.
  17. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    Baal: The OWS was filled with commies and socialists saying "Down with capitalism" and such.

    Maybe your news media didn`t show those.








    If those aren`t enough to prove my point I can show dozens more.
  18. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 12:52 pm
    The biggest mistake this movement made was making it a sleep over. That just invited the homeless. And with the homeless comes the crazy. And those are the people the news media interviews.
  19. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 1:03 pm
    @Crakrjak the only point you`re proving is that OWS isn`t unanimous, and that people against capitalism will jump on any excuse to get attention for their cause.

    In the anti-fascist revolution of WWI Spain, there were a bunch of anarchists who jumped in on the revolution. That didn`t mean the entire revolution`s purpose was to create anarchy in Spain, just that the resistance movement was in no place to deny the extra manpower.
  20. Profile photo of hellhawk
    hellhawk Male 18-29
    31 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 1:08 pm
    so the problom is the way ppl thinking here in united state and not just the corrupt GOV. this remaind me of - Southpark - the poor kid episode.
  21. Profile photo of hopeislost
    hopeislost Male 30-39
    196 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 2:49 pm
    Cry me a f###ing river. Boo hoo, this country is so corrupt. If these lazy hippy f***ing idiots are so bitter and think the US is so corrupt, why don`t they all move to a backwards ass Middle East s##thole or some communist dump where you`re not even allowed to speak your opinion and perhaps they may appreciate their country a little more. Here`s an idea, how bout occupying a job.
  22. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 2:57 pm
    DrProfessor: I believe it`s rather obvious that their `anti-capitalist` goals were evident in the name they chose `Occupy Wall St.` and the attempt Thursday to `shut down Wall St.`

    Wall St. = Capitalism, that`s a simple concept that most people know and understand.
  23. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 3:12 pm
    For the conservatives that are being partisan. Think back to the Tea Party Rallies. I`m sure you said, "The people being interviewed and shown in pictures are all the weirdoes and don`t speak for the movement." But now you just freely associate the weirdoes of OWS as people that represent the movement. That`s a nice double standard.
  24. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3876 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 3:13 pm
    Holy crap you make me laugh CrakrJak. But more in a shaking my head confused sort of way.
  25. Profile photo of vegascartman
    vegascartman Male 30-39
    735 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 3:14 pm
    LOL...absolutely brilliant!
  26. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 4:11 pm
    @hopeislost: Well, buddy, you`re just a ray of sunshine, aren`t you?
  27. Profile photo of intrigid
    intrigid Male 18-29
    914 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 6:18 pm
    Posting a country-restricted video = 1 star
  28. Profile photo of connor53
    connor53 Male 13-17
    207 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 7:52 pm
    I love how none of them can agree on exactly why they are all there.
  29. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 9:02 pm
    Gerry1of1, I think we are Occupying McDonalds. They go there for cheap, filling food and to use the bathroom while denouncing the evils of capitalism.
  30. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 9:21 pm
    The Daily Show is mostly tripe, but that was sublime.
  31. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 10:16 pm
    CrakrJak:
    I`m willing to go toe to toe with you on this.

    For every picture you posted, I can post a video interview. Will you change your mind as you expect me to change mine if I do so? What is the number, that will make you apologize and retract?


    Hopeislost and others:
    "Occupy a job"
    85% are employed, less than the national average, but given the argument, expected.

    Although I appreciate your wholehearted support you give the president in his job creation. Gosh, I remember just weeks before OWS many were still using "real" unemployment of 23% as the benchmark. Although I hear Bill O`Reilly is now touting a number of 4% as the "important" unemployment figure when discussing OWS.
  32. Profile photo of Viking864
    Viking864 Male 40-49
    1444 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 10:41 pm
    ...and yet these idiots enjoy a higher level of living then 80% of the population. Bunch of spoiled brats.
  33. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 11:52 pm
    You misspelled job creators there viking.

    When the rich are asking to be taxed more, you`re telling them they shouldn`t be. You alternate between "spoiled brats" and "jobless bums" while screaming hypocrisy?

    Look, America as a nation, wants better wealth distribution. You`re going to get the wealthy and the poor in on this.

    You have about equal support from Millionnaires for OWS (30-40%) as you get from general populace (39-52%).

    That`s a good thing... I know it makes it hard for some of you to keep track of who you`re hating though, so I can understand the confusion.
  34. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 18, 2011 at 11:58 pm
    Examples of genuine hypocrisy:

    "Wall street is capitalism"
    "Obama is a socialist"
    "Obama is in bed with wall street"

    "REAL unemployment is 23%" (When yelling "where are the jobs")
    "REAL unemployment is 4%" (When yelling "get a job")

    "Jobless bums"
    "Spoiled rich kids"


    And finally:
    "Jeez, these OWS guys have such an inconsistent message as a group, what hypocrites."
  35. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 12:25 am
    Baal: You would loose, easily. Don`t believe me do a google image search on capitalism and occupy wall st., a short count of the anti-capitalists signs you`ll find will outnumber any number of videos you can dig up to the contrary.

    I know your ego prevents you from admitting defeat, from previous debates here, but your amusingly misguided view comes from liberal spin-control, not reality.

    Claiming victory out of the jaws of complete failure is, after all, a talent liberals have honed to near perfection.
  36. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 1:12 am
    You have never wanted to keep score.

    I have.

    Your claims to victory as you repeatedly run, tail tucked, and bollocks retracted, ring hollow.


    On to substance:
    "quick image search" of:
    "Capitalism occupy wall st." No quotes.
    Provides 4 images by page 3, and already I`m duplicating one of yours.

    "Tea Party Racism" No quotes.
    Provides 7 by page 1.

    Are you sure you want this as your methodology for determining the underlying reasons for a movement?

    Crakr Science:
    Tea party 16 times more racist than OWS are socialist.

    anyway, I asked you for a number. What number of photographs constitutes proof of the underlying motivations of a movement.
  37. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 1:37 am
    Or to fairer, using my search methods rather than yours.

    "OWS Capitalism" brings up 5. (Counting duplicates of yours the first time they show up, not counting duplicates of each other).
    "Tea Party Racism" brings up 7. (Same).
    "OWS Socialism" brings up 4 (or 5, depending if you count a certain pic as a duplicate or not).

    So, Tea Party only about 40% more racist than OWS is Socialist.

    Again. Is this an adequate demonstration of why your methods of determining everything you know amount to nothing? Or would you like to pick another of your strongly held beliefs that can be easily torn apart by your own methods?

    I am still willing to compete on the terms I initially suggested btw, just give the word, and the number.
  38. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 1:48 am
    Baal: You`re a lying piece of crap, there was only one sign that could`ve possibly been considered `racist` in your `tea party racism` search, by a tea party protester, and there are dozens and dozens of anti-capitalist OWS protester signs.

    You just couldn`t do it honestly could you ? You had to count liberal counter-protester signs falsely calling the tea party racist.

    You`re a liar and a cheat, I hope you`re proud of your idiocy.
  39. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 1:57 am
    Which one exactly are you talking about?
    All from page 1.





    I understand your standards for racism are fairly low, but that`s really no excuse.

    Name your time. Place. Methodology. Number. Anything.

    You never get bent out of shape when I state my position, but jeez, it`s a struggle to get you to back up yours.
  40. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 2:05 am
    Again. As always. I`m happy to keep score.

    I`ve always offered up methodologies and challenges before I knew the outcome of those methods and challenges.

    Again, is that enough? I don`t know if that`s enough to call the Tea Party Racist?

    Doesn`t it get embarrassing when I can beat you at your own game even when you refuse to tell me the rules?
  41. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 5:29 am
    Baal: So you found a few signs calling Obama `African` or `Kenyan`, that is only true, his father was born in Kenya, Africa. That would be no different than me calling you an Arab or you calling me American, no racism there.

    You can`t keep score, because you are dishonest, you believe any sign that criticizes Obama to be racist and that is just simply false.

    Now let`s get back to what you originally challenged, you said you could produce VIDEOS of OWS people stating that they were not anti-capitalist that would outnumber the images I could find that illustrated that they were.

    Instead you knew you were wrong, that you would loose that bet, and decided to change the terms, and yet you still loose because you couldn`t resist being both deceitful and dishonest.
  42. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 5:40 am
    Baal: Btw, the vast majority of the photos on your `tea party racism` goggle image search come up with photos of celebrities and news people that have falsely claimed that the tea party was racist.

    fact is, after page 2, the above, celebrity photos is pretty much all you`ll see, excluding images like these.



    Which is rather a fitting image considering what you just tried to do.
  43. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:05 am
    Hahaha!!! Oh man, I see the Liberals are still using some of hte pics that were already debinked years ago! What? Did you somehow forget about all the Liberals who were caught bragging htey were going to infiltrate the Tea Party movement and make them "look bad?" Did you also forget about the fact that when there was a legit racist found spouting nonsense, he was told to leave, and banned from participating?

    So what we have here is Tea Party = Take action Occupy Wall Street = Embrace, hide and cover-up... Allow women to get raped, and theives to run free... Gotcha! Sounds bout right!

    Also amazing how the media gave DAYS and even WEEKS of coverage to any potential hint of negative behavior from the Tea Party, yet ignores rapes, murders, cops being slashed, sexual assault, racism, threats to burn down buildings, etc. Typical.
  44. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:13 am
    Let`s see, the Socialist Party backs the movement, as does the Nazi Party - They`ve both publicly declared tehir support.

    To anyone who doubts the anti-capitalism of OWS, why not head over to their message boards and read the THOUSANDS, yes, I mean THOUSANDS of posts declaring capitalism as "Dead" and "Destroying this country." Add to that the hundreds of pro socialist posts, and I think you`ll get the general idea of what they stand for.

    Or perhaps Baal you also missed the fact that multiple leads of the Communist Party was were warmly welcomed to come speak at their marches?

    Communist Leaders Speak at Occupy Wall Street

    But let`s not let the facts get in the way!! I mean, inviting these people to speak at your events means nothing right? (Rolling eyes)
  45. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:14 am
    While we`re at it Baal, let`s also ignore the words of Occupy Wall Street organizers themselves!!

    "***"We’re the International Socialists Organization… Our goal is to raise political consciousness to build a revolutionary party and work for a revolution here in the United States."***

    ***"The problem is capitalism… We need a new system that’s going to put people first and put profit back to the wasteland of history."***

    ***"Socialism is the solution. We need a society where everything is produced to meet human needs and wants rather than to make money off of them."***
  46. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:19 am
    An attendee of Occupy Wall Street in Charlotte from the Economic Policy Blog reported:

    "The first order of business was an agreement that organizing committee names would be drawn from a hat. The inner circle were known to each other in advance. I could not see the hat, or the people drawing the names, so I can`t say exactly what happened, but I can conjecture.

    In any case, organizers were selected from the hat. The very next order of business, I kid you not, was "All socialists will huddle at such-and-such area."

    Silence. The rest of us are wondering, OK, are they going to suggest any other groups? Next announcement: organize in small groups any way you want.

    The self-identified socialists huddle. By some miraculous coincidence, the anointed leaders are all socialists.
  47. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:26 am
    Former USSR confronts Occupy Wall Street socialists... Look at the idiocy of these people!!! Can these people be any more in denial? They don`t like the facts, they simply deny it! Socialist Occupy Wall Streeters Make Fools of Themselves
  48. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:28 am
    Nothing like marching around with mass murderers plastered all over your signs to show what you stand for eh?
  49. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:29 am
    Communist Party Officially Endorses Occupy Wall Street - Direct Link

    Hmmmm... Never saw them endorsing the Tea Party! Birds of a feather and all that right?
  50. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:32 am
    Baal, one more item... Mind explaining why Occupy Wall Street has been making extensive use of Communist Posters and art to advertise their movement? No not once, not twice, but 5 posters being put out by OWS are using Communist slogans, art work, and symbolism... Doesn`t get much more official than that!
  51. Profile photo of iajukesy
    iajukesy Male 18-29
    39 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 8:43 am
    @cuthere2

    ... pipe down...
  52. Profile photo of Zuriel
    Zuriel Male 30-39
    554 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 9:04 am
    ..drating hipsters.

    Passive aggression does NOTHING....nothing !

    Grow a pair and make the change you seek, take it !
  53. Profile photo of Anzac5665
    Anzac5665 Male 50-59
    30 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 10:25 am
    I love the guy with the laptop who said "I`m against private property, this is personal property" LMAO!!! I`d facepalm but I`m laughing at the hypocracy too hard!
  54. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 10:54 am
    cuthere2: I doubt either of us would ever convince Baal that he`s wrong, it`s not in the nature of a liberal to concede that their socialist/communist ideas are built on previous failures in other countries.

    As you and I know the upper class pulls the lower classes up with it in prosperity, trying to make everyone equal, just makes everyone equally miserable and the hard workers quit working hard.
  55. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 12:00 pm
    vv @Baalthy: you DO KNOW that there were leftists who organized infiltrations to the Tea Party rallies, right? They did so in order to try to disgrace the TP movement with racist signs & etc.

    So unless YOU can prove those photos were NOT infiltrators, and were actually approved by the Tea Party organizers, your case is MOOT.
    And brainless too.

    For example: WHY is a "lyin african" racist? Humm? It`s about his truthfulness (or lack thereof) and hi Kenyan birthplace. Race doesn`t enter the picture.
  56. Profile photo of simpletools
    simpletools Male 40-49
    50 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 12:17 pm
    To all those arguing about whether OWS is a socialist movement or not, I feel the need to point out that socialism is not the same as communism. Unfortunately, most of the OWS protesters don`t realize this either. China is one of the last communist strongholds in the world and even there, it`s not a pure form of communism. Just so you know, I`m Canadian and Canada is a socialist country. What that means is that we believe in, among other things, a basic level of free healthcare, subsidized higher education, and a regulated banking system. Because of the regulated banking system, the savings and loan crisis and housing crash didn`t have any-where near the same impact on families here as it did in the U.S.

    I know this doesn`t actually help either side of the debate, but it just drives me nuts when people confuse communism with socialism.

    BTW, how do you guys know when someone has posted a rebuttal? Is there a button you press that I`m just not seeing?
  57. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 2:42 pm
    Wow. So much cultural and historical ignorance in these posts one hardly knows where to start. How about a simple question to the right-wingers:

    If you hate socialism and liberalism so much, why do you tirelessly promote the kind of Law of the Jungle capitalism that spawned communism?

    (I won`t hold my breath waiting for an intelligent response. I do, however, expect a flurry of not-very-lucid FOX News propaganda.)
  58. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 4:08 pm
    Here`s your intelligent response, sans the flurry - this `law of the jungle` Capitalism that "spawned" communism doesn`t make communism the answer, nor does it make the conditions preceding it "capitalism." From what I understand, much of what Marx and other sympathetic intellectuals were outraged against was the type of COLLUSION in place between State and the Bourgeoisie during the industrial revolution. It`s this type of collusion that pure Free Market doctrine and Austrian enthusiasts (your "right-wingers?") rally AGAINST, as it is the very thing which becomes inevitable once the government is invited to tinker, and commandeer, in the private sector. Look what`s happened now - the mechanism of income redistribution, once the hallmark of a Socialist economic structure, has once again managed to benefit the wealthy, and damage the prospect of wealth acquisition for the poor, as well as middle classes. It is socialism that begets poverty, not the reverse.
  59. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 4:12 pm
    @Suicism: That`s the most tortuous--and bizarre--argument I`ve heard in a long time.

    Let me get this straight: You conclude your post by arguing that the widening gulf between Rich and Poor in this country is a result of liberal policies? Seriously?
  60. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 5:31 pm
    Yeah - liberal policies like corporate welfare, which IS welfare, make no mistake about it; the liberal expansion of our monetary supply to the point that not even our status as the world`s (former) reserve currency can salvage it; the outrageous institutional infrastructure that comes along with having to manage the implementation of these "liberal" policies (talk about income disparity!) and the fundamental law that when anything is subsidized - be it food, housing, or even your minimum wage - its actual market value is distorted by an artificial spike in demand, since everyone can now "afford" it, and those workers who have been fortunate (or responsible) enough to pay their own bills and plan for the future are punished, either by higher prices and/or a decline in the purchasing power of their dollar.
  61. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 5:32 pm
    The reason this results in a widening gap between the "rich" and "poor" is because that class I talked about, the one that`s getting squeezed to subsidize both of them?

    Yeah, that`s known as the MIDDLE class. I`m sure you`ve heard about it (maybe in a history book).
  62. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 6:17 pm
    Suicism, I`d respond to your post at length but your first sentence suggests would be a waste of time. You know, the one where you`re stating that corporate welfare is a liberal policy (?). Right off the bat, that tells me this will be another bizarre argument, similar to your last post where you suggest that Karl Marx wasn`t *really* against capitalism, but against "collusion." (Clearly, *Das Kapital* and *The Communist Manifesto* were slips of the pen.)

    Ehhh. I`m sure you`re smart and I don`t mean to be smarmy. Take it from me, if you`re arguing for the preservation of the Middle Class, we`re on the same team. I`m a liberal/statist, you`re a libertarian, so there`s going to be some key differences--but let`s focus on defending the Middle Class, an endangered species if ever there was one. Peace out.
  63. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 19, 2011 at 10:35 pm
    I`m pretty sure Obama`s endorsement of legislative acts to rescue the purveyors of our economic catastrophe, e.g. Goldman Sachs and AIG, weren`t `slips of the pen(s)` either.
  64. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    November 20, 2011 at 7:51 am
    @Suicism: Once again, we agree on something. I think Obama`s sellout to Wall Street and the financial industry is sickening. Obama`s a hypocrite: He talks liberal when it suits him, but virtually every action of his in office has served to further enrich the wealthy at the expense of the vanishing American Middle Class.

    Helen Thomas said it best: "He lacks courage. And he`s *not* a liberal."
  65. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 20, 2011 at 9:44 am
    Pretty sure Baal went to the hospital after that beat down.
  66. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 20, 2011 at 11:14 am
    Interesting perspective on Obama - maybe now you`re beginning to see why corporate welfare can only be considered a liberal policy, rather than a traditionally conservative one. But it goes way beyond that. You`re going to have to supply a celebrity quote excoriating the entire Federal legislature as `quasi-liberal` for having constructed and passed this bill (and representatives from which side of the political spectrum stood in staunch opposition to it, overwhelmingly?) in order to weasel out of this one. In fact, it goes even further than that. I`m sure with your elevated grasp of cultural and historical affairs, you must be well aware of macro-economist Maynard Keynes` long-standing status as the economist-du-jour among liberal thinkers. If any philosophy promulgates the transfer of wealth from the responsible and `conservative` to the reckless and wealthy, it`s his. Do you have any Helen Thomas quotes for us on that account?
  67. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    November 20, 2011 at 11:50 am
    @Suicism: Wow, I was trying to find common ground with you, and clearly that was a mistake. Frankly, your posts are betraying a weird combination of smugness and misinformation. So no, little troll, I`m not going to bite.

    As an aside, I find it amusing how people who`ve been so brainwashed into thinking that "Obama`s a socialist" (?) have such a hard time accepting that most liberals don`t even consider him a liberal.
  68. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 22, 2011 at 1:05 am
    Little bit of wisdom - if you can`t trust people to manage their own affairs, how can you possibly expect them to wisely manage the affairs of others?

    If your goal is to defend the middle class, you can`t possibly consider yourself a statist, much less a "liberal." That`s where our common ground suffers a rift far bigger than those between classes in the grip of any one of your statist regimes.

    You came in here with claws swinging, straw minions of fox-news parrots erected and all the ingredients for a flame war carefully, if not eagerly primed - and now you have the audacity to call me a troll.

    Sorry little squirrel - I didn`t bite.
  69. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 23, 2011 at 1:05 am
    No - we`re just a bunch of losers who keep checking the same posts over and over to see if we got the last word (looks like I achieved that distinction on this account).

    So Tool (you don`t mind if I call you that, do you?) could you tell me some more these banking regulations which are in place in Canada?

    And just for the record, you know what really drives me nuts? When people willfully confuse services that are forcefully exacted on the part of taxpayers with ones that are voluntarily contributed, i.e. "free."
  70. Profile photo of simpletools
    simpletools Male 40-49
    50 posts
    November 24, 2011 at 2:01 pm
    @Suicism: I suppose calling me tool is better than calling me simple. :)

    As for Canadian banking regulations, I`m sure anyone can look them up but it boils down to not making risky unsecured loans.

    And yes, the education and healthcare isn`t "free" but it isn`t at full cost either. The term "it takes a village to raise a child" comes to mind.

    Bottom line, if you or a loved one comes down with something serious, you`ll wish you had been paying taxes all those years for those "free" services.

    Also, there is a HUGE difference between using taxes for healthcare, public education, roads, etc. as opposed to using it to bail-out a bank or company. Which has happened in Canada; at least for companies, but not on the scale it has in the U.S.
  71. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 24, 2011 at 3:27 pm
    Secondly, interestingly enough, it is not uncommon among economists to view the FDIC as a source of moral hazard in banking. Institutions with sound lending policies are not rewarded for their prudence in an economy in which, in order to compete, they must push their reserve ratios to the breaking point - defined by that amount of loss their FDIC participation could insure them against. If we had neither of these two regulatory industries involved in the equation, not only would sub-prime lending be more responsible (since it would have only its own solvency to answer for, and not a government-backed charter) and possibly more affordable (since there`d likely be more competition for the market) but we wouldn`t have a false sense of security built into the banking system which condones risky behavior up to an arbitrary limit, regardless of market conditions.
  72. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 24, 2011 at 3:27 pm
    Hey SimpleTools - Happy Thanksgiving. And I`m glad you approve of my nickname compared to the alternative you provided, lol. I`d like to spend more time discussing your first point. One of the ironies of our banking system here in America actually has to do with government-backed mortgage entities contributing to the crisis on a mortgagee level. One of Fannie Mae`s charters (which is a privately funded, government sponsored lending enterprise) is that they must make affordable housing part of their business. This led in part to a sub-prime boom since, as I mentioned before with regard to other goods, the more you subsidize something the more of it you`re going to see.
  73. Profile photo of simpletools
    simpletools Male 40-49
    50 posts
    November 25, 2011 at 3:00 pm
    Why does my original post keep repeating?

    Happy Thanksgiving to you, Suicism. Actually, ours was a few months ago but thank you just the same. In regards to your comment about government backed lending and the FDIC, you`re absolutely right. Having a government-backed mortgage entity that is required to provide affordable housing is kind of like trying to have your cake and eat it as well. You either pay for affordable housing or you don`t. As for the FDIC, it would have been more accurate for me to say you have to have a well regulated banking system as opposed to a heavily regulated one. My understanding is that banks where packaging good and bad loans together and selling them to other investors. In other words, banks were generating income by selling the futures on their loans rather than on the repayment of the loans. Then, they would go out and make more loans; some good, some bad. Pyramid scheme, anyone? Yes, this is a simplified version of what happened.
  74. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 27, 2011 at 3:04 am
    Mr. Tool - your distinction between the approach of well-regulated vs. heavily-regulated was highly insightful. How often we find ourselves regulating an industry back into the problems it faced before regulation was called for! Another point you hit upon which is of great interest to me - the Pyramid scheme. Here in America, at least as far as the financial system is concerned, we call it the Mandrake mechanism! Bank assets are backed by other people`s debt (as you pointed out). But it goes deeper than that - we don`t have a currency of positive value, as does virtually no other county of this day (regardless of 1st, 2nd, or 3rd-world status). If you want to talk about the ultimate pyramid scheme however, I consider it to be what we call `social security` along with several of its related entitlements (let me know if any of this sound unfamiliar to you, although I highly doubt it).
  75. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 27, 2011 at 3:07 am
    P.S. - I don`t know, but you can easily delete your superfluous posts by following the associated link directly beneath your Avatar.

    P.P.S. - I figured as much. But in return, I won`t put up any fight if you want to shoot me a salutation in observation of December the 26th!
  76. Profile photo of simpletools
    simpletools Male 40-49
    50 posts
    December 1, 2011 at 1:07 pm
    I don`t think a Pyramid scheme is what the people had in mind when they came up with the Mandrake mechanism. There`s nothing wrong with having a currency of negative value so long as you don`t overextend yourself. Unfortunately, the banks and many home owners were way above the recommended 10 to 20 % range of earnings. Some people will say, "But most mortgages are 20% more than people`s earnings" A mortgage isn`t 100% debt. The house has value. Where people got in trouble is when they started paying well above the market value of a house and the banks gave them a mortgage based on that price. As for social security & employment "insurance"; they`re more transfer payments rather than pension plans or actual insurance. They look like pyramid schemes because the ratio of people retired/unemployed vs employed(payees into the plans) has gone up drastically since the plans inception.

    Happy boxing day?

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