A Simple Question About Homosexuality

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 5 years ago in

Sometimes the simplest thing can change people"s perspective. What is your answer? Choice or born gay?
There are 139 comments:
Female 38
lol, I think people choose whether or not they expres if they`re gay.
I`m bi, and I didn`t realise until I was like 14, I only ever had crushes on boys until then. But I chose to express the feeling which I was born to have.
So is it both?
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Female 471
This is awesome.
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Male 40,416
LOLZ! Sry @duffytoler, that`s genetic in your case!
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Male 5,194
That guy walked up to me and said "When did you choose to be FOREVER ALONE."
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Male 40,416
@Musuko42: With all due respect, you have it completely backwards.
They do study the origins of heterosexuality! It`s part of psychology, eh?
HOWEVER the fact that hetero- is learned seems to have escaped a certain group. THEY are the ones striving to un-do decades of research to "prove" a political point.
I don`t care if it`s learned or genetic. Plenty of homosexuals don`t care either! But there`s a group (or a bunch of groups) who want this to be a fact, and neither science, nor logic, nor anything else will stop them.
Compare MY reactions to the following:

Person #1: I like to drat ponies, it`s genetic!
5Cats: No it`s not, you learned it.

Person #2: I`m a heterosexual, it`s genetic!
5Cats: No it`s not, you learned it.

Person #3: I`m a homosexual, I`m not sure if it`s genetic or what.
5Cats: Well, I agree.

See? Is that clear? Just MHO of course.
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Male 2,850
@5Cats

Have you actually listened to what the demands are? They`re pretty reasonable.

And what`s wrong with parades anyway? Don`t you enjoy a party?

My point, badly explored as it is, boils down to this; nobody is trying to evaluate the origins of your heterosexuality in order to validate your current sexual activities and/or relationships.

But many people, including you, are doing it to me and others. Why?

So while you continue to do it to me, I will feel entitled to do it to you; so please tell me why you feel your marriage failed.

Or...accept that you don`t have the right to judge other people`s relationships, just as I know that I don`t actually have any right to judge yours.

Is that reasonably clear?
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Male 40,416
But @Musuko42: I`m a heterosexualist, what my ACTUAL sexual practices are is MOOT (look up "moot" is you`re confused here, m-kay?)
I don`t walk around asking people if they`re gay, it`s gays who parade and lobby and demand things.
If someone presents a petition for gay rights, NO ONE asks him/her/it "Hey, are you gay?" Right?

I understand what you think you`re saying, but it`s not actually what you`re doing.
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Male 2,850
@5Cats

"@Musuko42, why so personal? Do these questions have a point?"

To give you some idea what it feels like to have someone poking around inside your sex life.

So while we`re talking about why us "homosexualists" do what we do, let`s hear about why your marriage ended. It`s only fair.
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Male 40,416
Of course @Cajun247, the experiments provide "evidence" and the only way for "proof" is to do them on hundreds of human babies. BAD idea, that!

@Angilion: I completely agree, and have often said similar things in conversation. Yours is more well-spoken though.
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Male 12,365
[quote]@infantry0 : as soon as moronic bigots stop making it an issue, gay people can start living "normal" lives and you can stop complaining. The only way you can get bigots to change is to stop hiding and get in their face about it.[/quote]

Working towards the opposite of a goal has not got a good track record of working as a means to attain a goal.

If the end goal is "homosexuals are as ordinary as heterosexuals and sexual orientation is not a defining feature", then a campaign of using sexual orientation as a defining feature as much as possible and acting as abnormally as possible as publically as possible is not a rational or effective way of achieving that goal.

In other words, I think you are not just wrong but completely the opposite of right.
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Male 10,855
Then you admit that Skinner`s experiments aren`t proof then?

Glad you could clear that up.
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Male 40,416
@Cajun: @madest brought up twins thusly:
[quote]How do you explain a pair of twin boys. One likes GI Joe`s and camoflage. The other likes stuffed furry animals and chiffon. How does that situation fit in your "people aren`t born gay" theory?[/quote]
Little does he understand that this actually proves NON-GENETIC (if the twins are identical) So I made an equally absurd point to highlight that.

[quote]Inductive reasoning SUGGESTS an idea is true it does not PROVE it.[/quote]
That`s exactly what I said! It`s as close as we can get without `human experimentation` eh? As close to "proof" as morality will allow. I hope that`s clear.

[quote]a clear ignorance of science[/quote]
@Patchgrabber, you even said it TWICE eh?
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Male 5,811
[quote]So you agree with me @Patchgrabber, then call me names? Weird.[/quote]

I never called you a name, just pointed out your incorrect reference of it as proper science. Don`t play the victim.
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Male 10,855
[quote]So you agree with me @Patchgrabber[/quote]

Inductive reasoning SUGGESTS an idea is true it does not PROVE it.
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Male 15,190
@infantry0 Like you, I find a lot of the `in your face` (no pun intended) gay pride stuff and kitsch to be in poor taste.

Nevertheless, I fully respect every adult`s right to have consensual relations (sexual or not) with any other adult of their choosing and am appalled that there are people who do not.

Until society accepts this, I understand that gay people will protest and flaunt their choice to raise awareness and bring about cultural desensitisation.

We have to cut them some slack.
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Male 266
My answer: it doesn`t matter. It`s not something that harms anybody and it`s not inherently wrong (unless you believe in fairytales, in which case i have no interest in your ignorant opinion whatsoever), and therefore anybody who wants to engage in it should be able to do so.
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Male 10,855
[quote] If one twin murders, do you also arrest the other?[/quote]

Again this comparison on it`s face is absurd.
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Female 1,803
@infantry0 : as soon as moronic bigots stop making it an issue, gay people can start living "normal" lives and you can stop complaining. The only way you can get bigots to change is to stop hiding and get in their face about it.
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Female 1,803
@uptheante: why do men have nipples, then? Some people are left-handed and some are right-handed. No big woop.

I really don`t understand why people care whether someone is gay or straight. People like that need to get their own life in order before they worry about what someone else is doing, if ever.
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Male 356
I was about to type something here, but then I saw the wall of text people posted so I digressed.
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Male 164
What if I want to sit in my chair and do nothing but smoke weed all day everyday on the government`s dime. I would be called a bum by the masses. What if I want to stuff my pets and keep them on my mantle. I`d be labled excentric or weird. What if I chose, just because I wanted to, to walk on all fours for the rest of my life. I`d probably be committed. Homosexuality may not be new to humanity, but I feel like its been shoved down my throat(no pun intended) for the last 10 years or so. Quit having parades in public streets, acting like complete sex deviants, and just live quiet normal lives like the rest of us. You`d garner a lot more respect from the masses.
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Male 40,416
con`t: A teacher who supports teaching `homosexual studies" in kindergarden may not be gay, so how to refer to that person`s position? Homosexualist of course!
[quote]where you mentioned that no one else in this forum had any experience in this either.[/quote]
Well @evanbartlett: until @Gerry1 shows me a picture of his PHD, (and NOT his budgie!) I`m assuming he hasn`t got one.
(the budgie thing is a joke from that other thread, lolz!)

[quote]No. It`s an issue because of the far-righties.[/quote]
@Cajun: you thing the far-right CARES about evolution (ie: genetics, DNA and stuff)? THEY think homosexuality is "teh Devils work!" or some such poo.
This is about people who want to normalize homosexuality trying to "prove it`s natural".

Even identical twins can grow up completely different. If one twin murders, do you also arrest the other? Same for gay/straightness.
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Male 40,416
[quote] thus you`re stuck using inductive logic[/quote]
Um, that`s what I just said, eh? The ONLY thing you`ll get from `this kind of science` (human development) IS inductive. So you agree with me @Patchgrabber, then call me names? Weird.

[quote]5Cats, what is a homosexualist? And how does it differ from a homosexual?[/quote]
Well, the fine link @brassbull gave us doesn`t include the meaning I use. Perhaps those are all `slang` meanings, as in variations on the most common one?

A "homosexualist" is one who supports or endorses homosexuality. Like an "environmentalist" eh? One need not be gay to be a homosexualist - there`s lots of men who are "feminists" right?
Thus when discussing "gay issues" one should differentiate between those who are gay, and thos who support gayness (which hopefully includes that first group) to avoid confusion.
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Male 663
Oblivia: Exactly, so what? It`s not the gay folks like myself who keep bringing it up, its straight folks. All we do is answer them.

As for environment? I was raised in the same environment, schools, hobbies etc as several other kids who were my neighbours, grew up with me, our parents were all friends, we watched the same TV shows, played the same games etc, yet they aren`t gay but I am.... MAGIC?!
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Male 10,855
@Oblivia

You tell me. Why does it matter how people live their life?
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Female 812
I agree with people being born gay, yet their environment also plays a role.
That aside; So what gays? You were born this way, so what?
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Male 559
@5Cats: I get that you were saying that you didn`t have any expertise in the subject. Where I was disagreeing with you was where you mentioned that no one else in this forum had any experience in this either.
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Male 1,610
Homosexualist. Sounds like a profession where a guy/girl appears out of nowhere, commits a homosexual act, and then vanishes.
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Male 12,138
5Cats, what is a homosexualist? And how does it differ from a homosexual?
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Male 10,855
[quote] a thing because homosexualists want it to be a thing.[/quote]

No. It`s an issue because of the far-righties.
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Male 5,811
[quote]...thus as good as science can get in these areas.[/quote]

This demonstrates a clear ignorance of science. Consistent results don`t mean anything on their own, especially when you consider that this all takes place in a laboratory setting, which is hardly a good indication of explaining behaviour in nature. I already told you that ethologists discredited many of his interpretations.

[quote]Without raising a few hundred humans in Boxes...[/quote]

And that right there is one big reason why this is not science. Ethics don`t allow human experimentation for things such as this, thus you`re stuck using inductive logic, which is NOT science. So you still haven`t proven anything with the Skinner example other than your ignorance of science.
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Male 40,416
[quote]Why did it end?[/quote]
@Musuko42, why so personal? Do these questions have a point?

[quote]In short, Skinner boxes cannot explain all behaviour.[/quote]
Well that`s obvious @Patchgrabber! lolz! Or we wouldn`t even be talking about this!
Skinners experiments were varied, not just operant conditioning, eh? He`d raise monkies alone in a box and see how they reacted when exposed to other monkies. IF there were "mating instincts" they should have coupled, but nope, not what happened!
It`s far more complex than that of course: but his experiments were huge in number and fairly consistant in results, thus as good as science can get in these areas. Without raising a few hundred humans in Boxes...

@Glorgan: it`s a thing because homosexualists want it to be a thing.
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Male 10,338
Some people DON`T choose to be fat.
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Male 570
yup and fat people don`t choose to be fat and drug addicts don`t choose to be addicted to drugs.
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Male 40
I know I said this before, but seriously. WHY IS THIS A THING? If almost all gay people say that this isn`t a choice, why in god`s name is there an argument against that? Why the hell would we all just sit here and lie? This isn`t some sort of conspiracy. If you want to find an expert on the topic of being gay, wouldn`t you think one of the best places to start would be a gay person and not a bunch of people who have never been gay and will never be gay.
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Male 40
"A person is also not straight if they are a virgin, because they`ve not yet had straight sex."

Why is it all of a sudden a requirement for people to have sex to have a sexuality? Whether or not I have sex, I am still gay because I`m sexually attracted to men. Even if I don`t act on it. Thats the end of it. Its not complicated. I even tried dating girls before coming out. I`m not bisexual though. Just close your eyes and pretend you`re making out with Jake Gyllenhaal. Sexual orientation is NOT the act of having sex, it is what gender you are attracted to. Thats why there are gay people with children from previous marriages; they didn`t have some crazy realization one day, its something they`ve struggled through their whole lives.
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Male 5,811
[quote]You make the choice when you phuck some one[/quote]

And how would you know who to "phuck"?
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Male 4,170
You make the choice when you phuck some one
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Female 22
Here`s agreat idea to find out whether being gay is a choice or not: ask someone who`s gay!
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Male 5,811
@5cats

Skinner box is nonsense. It has specific limitations, the primary one being since all the rats are trained to only avoid a shock or press a lever, it doesn`t allow them to use many of the behaviours they would naturally, so you can`t just take his experiments and generalize them to, say, rats at a landfill.

"Skinner demonstrated clearly that lots of "instincts" were in fact learned - quite radical at the time"

Again, his demonstrations were very limited, and he purported that all instincts could be explained through operant conditioning, which was disproven by ethologists. When they observed trained animals outside of the laboratory, they found the animals engaged in instinctual, but unnecessary acts.

In short, Skinner boxes cannot explain all behaviour.
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Male 10,855
[quote] You mentioned the Skinner Boxes and that`s largely what I go by in this debate.[/quote]

Those experiments say nothing about romantic relationships though.
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Male 10,855
[quote] Culture plays a huge role in sexual orientation[/quote]

That certainly says that romance can`t be switched like a light bulb.
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Male 2,850
@5Cats

"I was, for 7 years, to a woman (just have to add that, lolz!) now I have cats!"

Why did it end?
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Female 2,674
@uptheante - There`s no magical sky being to take away unnecessary parts of humans. Gay people are usually the products of straight people and it makes no sense for their biology to be vastly different. There are parts of every human that we don`t actually need but they still exist.

Also, if the purpose for males and females is to reproduce, why are some straight people born without that ability?
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Male 11
@vicious-liar
As the biological function of sperm is to reproduce then a gay man has no need of it. Simple. So why are they born with it if it serves no purpose?
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Male 40,416
@evanbartlett: You have it backwards - I`m saying I have NO expertise in "that field" just the same as IAB`s homosexualists, m-kay?

@Musuko42 - I was, for 7 years, to a woman (just have to add that, lolz!) now I have cats!

@auburnjunky - don`t forget who the co-chair of the PMRC was: Hillary! Clinton! Democrats :heart: censorship, eh?
You mentioned the Skinner Boxes and that`s largely what I go by in this debate. Skinner demonstrated clearly that lots of "instincts" were in fact learned - quite radical at the time. If something so complex as sexuality is genetic, that makes it instinctive, eh? Not bloody likely! Ditto for "motherhood instincts" and other bunkum that was popular amoung the Freudians. Electra Complex! lolz!
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Male 75
From the second I was born there is a photo of me that my dad arranged where I am propped up next to a football and a baseball. All pictures from BIRTH to age 10 are me being posed playing with every single piece of sports equipment known to man...me tossing a football, me swinging a golf club, a baseball bat...etc. I was put in Soccer, Little League, golf and basketball until 6th grade when my parents FINALLY listened to me that I HATED every single last SECOND of it! I would BAWL my eyes out at age 12 and had to be dragged to soccer practice. At age 16 my father left a Playboy Magazine on my desk in my room and I wouldn`t even go near it and ran to my mom to take it out of my room...So guess what? The whole "It`s how you were brought up" excuse is completely laughable to me. My parents tried SO HARD to get me to be straight. It was never gonna happen...My mom said she knew I was gay when I was FOUR.
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Male 10,338
@Rob: "a person is also not straight if they are a virgin, because they`ve not yet had straight sex."

You might be onto something here lol.

@Musoko: "Do they want to burst into my home and rip the CD from the player and imprison me for it?"

Tipper Gore and the PMRC wanted to do exactly that! Only, back then it was a tape, not a CD lol.
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Male 621
@glorgan

"I don`t understand why this is even still a thing. My parents are still married, have been in love since they were sixteen years old and have been together for thirty years now. I had a happy childhood and have strong relationships with both of my parents as well as everyone else in my more extended family. We`re all very close. I am the only gay person in my family, and I came out when I was 16. At first my family was shocked but they are very supportive of me now. I have had long term committed relationships and I am a totally normal person. I knew I was gay before I even knew that there was a word for it. Granted, I spent many years in an internal struggle trying to suppress it but finally I realized that I had to be true to myself. I just don`t understand where people can get this idea that I would ever WANT to be discriminated against? That is so ridiculous. Being gay isn`t something I asked for or learned to do; Its just what I am. And I`m proud."
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Male 2,850
I mean, seriously! I like rock music. Was I born liking it? Did my early childhood lead me to like it? Did I choose to like it?

Does any of that change the pleasure I get when I listen to it? Are any of you harmed by me listening to it? Are there hordes of people clamouring to brand me immoral for doing it? Do they want to burst into my home and rip the CD from the player and imprison me for it?

I`m sure the usual suspects will pipe up and say "it`s not the same" and homosexuality harms people, and rock music doesn`t, and that`s why one should be stopped and the other is okay. But go back fifty years and the very same kind of people were saying that rock music is harmful and should be banned.

So...where`s the time machine for me to go forwards 50 years to leave all this behind (and enjoy those people in the future decrying the harmful immorality of cyber-blargling)?
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Female 1,478
No one`s -born- to do crap. You aren`t born to be a doctor, you aren`t born to eat potato chips and not eat carrots, you aren`t born to have a bird as a pet and hate dogs. I do consider being gay a sexual deviance, since being a, shall we say, regular, human being is to be straight and to have sex with your opposite gender and to reproduce. But I don`t think being gay is a bad thing. It`s just different.
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Male 2,850
@5Cats

Are you married?
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Male 2,850
@glorgan

"I don`t understand why this is even still a thing."

Neither do I.

Why are we all so hung up on trying to figure out why some consenting adults like certain kinds of other consenting adults, when what we should really be asking is whether there is any reason they SHOULDN`T be liking eachother...and what business of it is it for anyone else that they do?
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Male 1,226
"If there is a genetic or biological change in a male to be born gay, then surely they should be born without sperm too."

Wat the **** makes you draw that `obvious` conclusion?
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Male 2,528
And this is exactly why the greater population should be allowed to decide whether or not gay people can get married.

A friend of mine once told me that a virgin can`t be gay because one has to have practiced homosexual intercourse before being considered gay. So I make the point that by that logic, a person is also not straight if they are a virgin, because they`ve not yet had straight sex.
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Male 214
poofy_poncho...

thanks for that. Now explain lesbianism please.
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Male 13
Men choose to be gay you aren`t born with it. As woman have been given more and more rights as society develops men that are unable to cope with a strong women will choose to be gay. It may not be something that they realize they are choosing but subconsciously they see a strong independent women as a threat and because of that they are turned off leaving them to believe that they are gay. Women on the other hand
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Male 40
@uptheante Hormonal imbalances do not result in such extreme physiological mutations like that. Saying that people who`s hormones make them attracted to the same gender means that they shouldn`t produce sex cells doesn`t make sense. Thats like saying that lesbians should be born without ovaries if they weren`t attracted to men. Gay people still have sexual urges and on a more elementary scale, an urge to reproduce and impregnate. The issue is that the hormones that would typically tell us what gender to impregnate or be impregnated by are screwed up. Asexual people are more likely to be sterile and it often is a result of their inability to produce testosterone or estrogen due to birth defects or other reasons, and as a result are commonly unable to produce sex cells. However, gay people are not asexual, obviously, because this wouldn`t be something we talked about if they were.
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Male 11
If there is a genetic or biological change in a male to be born gay, then surely they should be born without sperm too. So I don`t believe that someone can be born biologically gay, only that they have a strong desire to be with men rather than women.
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Male 40
I don`t understand why this is even still a thing. My parents are still married, have been in love since they were sixteen years old and have been together for thirty years now. I had a happy childhood and have strong relationships with both of my parents as well as everyone else in my more extended family. We`re all very close. I am the only gay person in my family, and I came out when I was 16. At first my family was shocked but they are very supportive of me now. I have had long term committed relationships and I am a totally normal person. I knew I was gay before I even knew that there was a word for it. Granted, I spent many years in an internal struggle trying to suppress it but finally I realized that I had to be true to myself. I just don`t understand where people can get this idea that I would ever WANT to be discriminated against? That is so ridiculous. Being gay isn`t something I asked for or learned to do; Its just what I am. And I`m proud.
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Male 2,516
when I was about ... 12, I realized being penetrated in the butt wasn`t my thing without even trying it; it just seemed... ouch.
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Male 2,034
`Round about puberty. Wasn`t into either before then. Boomroasted.
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Female 8,006
I wish people would stop worrting about what others do - have sex with someone you fancy the pants off, marry someone you love, be kind, be polite and stop worrying about what other people do. It is just nasty to worry about other peoples sex lives, what clothes they choose to wear - shows an unkind heart and nasty mean little mind.
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Male 4,902
I wonder where they filmed this, those people seemed fairly open minded.
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Male 2,345
I think it is safe to say that most creatures and humans tend to chose the path of least resistance, when they have a choice and as such choosing a path that puts you at odds with MOST of the world`s religions, beliefs and societal norms is not one that people would gravitate towards.

Also, I remember reading a study that showed that about 10% of the population is gay and that number seemed to be stable throughout history. Given that, it seems to make sense that people are born gay in order for that number to remain stable as the study showed. I cannot remember the study but if anyone knows it please add link, I would like to read it again.
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Male 559
"OH! All the gay men here have PHDs in related fields? lolz! Question: How does their "evidence" differ from mine? It doesn`t."

I wasn`t going to take it there and rather keep on a personal level, but since you dropped the bomb: You have a PhD in Developmental Psychology and an MD as well!? Trust me, I can talk circles around your lack of understanding of how the human mind develops and functions and how sentient perceptions are perceived, but you wouldn`t understand. Sorry.
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Male 2,419
@tlshaman
yes, next?
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Male 2,419
Yup, all those old republicans and priests just chose to be into guys and boys. It was obviously a good move at the time, what financially responsible person would take such a risk without obvious gains?
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Male 39,619

ShroomGypsy [quote]"Walking around on my hands and knees and painting myself orange would not make me a tiger, no matter how hard I try to act like a tiger." [/quote]
No, it would not make you a tiger.
But it would make us all very happy to see you do it.
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Male 621
If I were raised by bible thumping homophobic rednecks I`d be straight? I`d probably just be a serious closet case who`s all messed up on the inside. I`d brainwash myself into thinking I`m straight because I`d be afraid of what everyone would think of me. I`d go off and marry some woman because that`s what is expected. I`d subject her to years of an unhappy marriage as I lie to her and myself every day. Then one day when I`m a successful U.S. Senator in my 50`s, I get caught soliciting sex from a male prostitute.

Or I can just be myself and do what feel right despite what anyone says. Love and be loved.
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Male 40,416
vv You make fine points @auburnjunky.
vv @Draculya is spot-on! Culture plays a huge role in sexual orientation. Why were there LOTS of gays in ancient Rome & Greece? If it were "genetic" the number would remain constant across time, correct? Even cave-men would be 30-40% gay, and so would our population today, IF that were true.

Culture> upbringing> peers> genetics> other

How I view the influences in homo vs hetero humans.
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Male 378
DO BABIES HAVE PERSONALITIES?
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Male 40,416
[quote]yumyum1, don`t you see the gay men on this forum saying they were born that way.[/quote]
@Smagboy1: OH! All the gay men here have PHDs in related fields? lolz! Question: How does their "evidence" differ from mine? It doesn`t. No one currently "knows the answer" to why some people are gay (except that it`s learned - but since we aren`t too sure HOW humans learn things, well it`s kinda moot, eh?)

[quote]People are what they are mainly because of environment and upbringing.[/quote]
Tah dah! @Enjin I heartily agree!

@ShroomGypsy: No offense, but mating with a male while still being sexually attracted to females would make you bi-sexual. imho of course.

[quote]Walking around on my hands and knees and painting myself orange would not make me a tiger[/quote]
It would for ME! Grrrowl! I can sleep well tonight, dreaming of that...
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Male 15,190
I think most people _do_ choose to be gay and _don`t_ choose to be straight.

There may be a spectrum of gender tendency, but I think in most things, people default to social norms. The social norm is being straight, so just like most people raised in the bible belt to a Christian family won`t really have a recollection of a moment of choosing to believe in their god, they people born to straight parents in a conservative-Christian community will default to Christianity and will need to make a conscious decision to change.

Likewise, I think if gay or bisexual parents raised any given child in a predominant gay community, then the child would have a much greater chance of not being straight.
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Male 10,338
@enjin: You are probably more right than wrong.
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Male 40,416
[quote]5Cats, please explain homosexuality in the animal kingdom, apart from humans?[/quote]
Glad to @SmagBoy!
#1: It`s a lie. The incidents of animal homosexuality reported are all modern. Funny how the ancient Greeks, Romans and French never noticed gay animals, eh?
#2: the "definiton" the homosexualists use to label an animal "gay" is rediculous! 99% of the time it`s not homo-sexual at all!
#3: in the very rare cases of actual homosexual animals, human intervention is ALWAYS a prime factor.

Animals can be bi-sexual, that is true! BUT it isn`t homo-sexual now is it?

@IrishJesus: Who worries about these things? The homosexualists, that`s who! They`re determined to "normalize" homosexuality in western (or wherever) culture, this is one of their tools. I say it`s a crappy tool, it`s a fools arguement, it damages more than it fixes.
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Male 802
What a load of c/rap.
People are what they are mainly because of environment and upbringing.
Wanting to have sex with people of the same sex is simply a sexual preference. Just like I only like Asian chicks. Was I born that way?
I`m willing to bet that we could socially engineer people into being gay or straight if you had complete control over every aspect of their life from birth.
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Male 10,338
@ShroomGypsy: Point taken. I was wrong.
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Female 2,549
I understood this at age 12 when I first understood the meaning of homosexuality. You are born that way.
Now hear this - specific to women `gay phase`
It annoys the heck out of me when women will pretend it`s just something that happens when they have their lesbo affairs and go right back to next available rooster.
A straight non- homophobic man will understand me when I say I am hetero and do not want to give it a try. I have been approached by women, don`t have a problem with it as long as they don`t start the - but have you tried it? You may like it- NO don`t want to.
Can`t tell you how many times a woman from hetero couple has approached me for a threesome. When I decline stating the `am not in to women` am called a prude :-(
Never understood` the Phase` poo. Like those skank hos that kiss each other in the club. Desperate for attention and messing it up for the real lesbos who don`t choose to be.
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Female 64
@auburnjunky: That`s not true. A gay person can choose to live as though they were straight, but that doesn`t make them straight. I could marry a man and have a family with him, but I will always be attracted to women, and therefore I will always be a lesbian. Walking around on my hands and knees and painting myself orange would not make me a tiger, no matter how hard I try to act like a tiger.
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Male 10,338
To add...

Maybe that just makes me weird.
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Male 621
Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to choose to be straight. The very idea is mind boggling to me. I can`t understand it. No offense to any of the ladies here, but, nooooo thank you... <3
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Male 10,338
Let me put it this way. I was born straight. Gay people are born gay.

That being said, I can choose right now to become gay. A gay person can choose, right now, to become straight.

It isn`t as black and white as this.
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Female 4,039
I`ve always been grossed out by vaginas.
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Male 39,619

@ Ruffiana - prove it. If you chose to be straight then you could chose to be gay. So prove it`s a choice.

I double dog dare you to Chose to be Gay for the next 2 months. You don`t have to have sex with men, you can be a celebate gay guy. But you must stop desiring women sexually. No fantasizing or thinking about sex with women. Instead, chose to have wet dreams about Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman.

No more stairing at boobies. You can only look at women to critique their clothes and boyfriends. You must go see musical theatre and TWILIGHT movies!

Let us know how that works out for you.
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Male 934
I think of course there are genetic tendencies, but also there are experiences growing up. Most of us experiment sexually with people of the same sex during our teens or even earlier, and depending on how the situations end up may help shape our sexuality. There`s no question that sexual events in our youth help shape our tastes in our adulthood.

Either way: does not matter. Being gay or not is no more important than whether or not we prefer wine or beer. Both are acquired tastes, but nobody cares whether or not you are genetically predisposed to like one over the other, or if it`s because it`s what you had more positive experiences with.
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Male 3,369
@I-IS-BORED: he said "more than".....he probably has bi-sexual tendancies.
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Male 7,378
OK Ruffiana, How do you explain a pair of twin boys. One likes GI Joe`s and camoflage. The other likes stuffed furry animals and chiffon. How does that situation fit in your "people aren`t born gay" theory?
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Male 2,419
@Ruffiana
"when I realized I was much more attracted to the idea of having sex with girls than boys"
So you chose to realize this or?...
Clearly you said you CHOSE to be straight when you found yourself attracted to girls, but when did you CHOOSE to be attracted to girls???

Why can`t you think of a genetic reason to be attracted to people with obvious signs of fertility, strength, health, etc? Oh wait... evolution... right we still have to give the US more time on that one.
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Male 506
I chose to be straight around adolescence when I realized I was much more attracted to the idea of having sex with girls than boys.

I don`t believe anyone is born gay or straight. The framework for sexual orientation may be there in the genes, but we`re largely asexual beings until hormones start really paving those roads. I do believe that who (or what) you’re sexually attracted is something that largely develops on its own based on your physical development but also has some contributions from environment.

I can’t think of any purely physical reason for people to develop a bias for particular races, hair color, eye color, body shapes, etc. outside of family, peer, or environmental influence. So by extension of the thought that being attracted to leggy blondes isn’t entirely genetic, it’s reasonable that hetero/homo orientation may not be entirely genetic either.
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Male 10,440
*yawn* is this still a thing?

... pardon me while I rejoin the civilized world which has already decided on this obvious issue.
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Male 3,369
Gerry1of1 said: "While it may be none of thier business, unfortunately, Conservatives control the vote and, as in my case, have voted away gay civil rights that straights enjoy. THAT`s why their opinion is important and why getting the stupid superstitious religious perspective out of politics is important.

Gay is a sin so closeted gay Conservative republicans pass laws that Gays can`t teach in schools, adopt children, get married, etc etc etc. Well, if you can`t kill them I guess we just have to re-educated them"

fixed.
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Male 1,582
Finally a good question to knock some sense into dumb people. If you honestly think it`s not genetic, you really just don`t want to accept what you don`t approve of.
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Female 812
You are born with a certain preference for men or women and you choose to pursue it. Most straight people do not remember exactly when they choose to be straight because it`s not an issue if you are yet with gay people, sadly, it is.
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Female 3,562
Yumyum, you`re correct in that there is no proof one way or another. To be honest, I do believe people are born gay but they don`t know it immediately. It takes self-discovery. Before puberty, there is no way to know. Puberty is the time to figure it out. People "decide" they are gay or straight at that point based on the feelings they develop at puberty.
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Male 4,431
yumyum1, don`t you see the gay men on this forum saying they were born that way. What, do you think it`s a big gay conspiracy?! Are you calling them liars? If so, just say it, call them liars. Or, if you want to actually educate yourself, go here and read the stories, look at the pictures, try to actually understand the obvious drating reality that is the truth.
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Female 3,562
Wow, a lot of people don`t even think.
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Male 129
@cajun47 - thats precisely my point! The video tries to suggest that gays are born that way. Answer is - we dont know. Saying that gays dont have a choice is like hiding behind the unknown. It may be politically and socially correct to state it that way but scientifically, its absurd logic.
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Male 10,855
[quote] Murderers are murderers because they are born that way.[/quote]

Bad analogy factors behind murder are very clear (at least when the case is solved), factors behind homosexuality are not well understood.
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Male 663
I`m gay. I didn`t choose to be gay, and I don`t know any of my gay friends who would`ve chosen to be gay either, because it`s not an easy life believe me. And before anyone suggests it, I was raised well, with both a mother and a father, I have a good relationship with both, I played with the other kids just the way they played with each other, both male and female, and I had the same school life as everyone else. No revelations, no moulding into some sexual confusion, no pervy uncle or over affectionate teacher. I was raised normally (and raised well) but I`m gay. Didn`t choose it, but its just how I feel inside.

Did you choose to be straight?
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Male 39,619

KtySpix [quote]"Heterosexuals have no idea if it`s a choice or not, so what`s the point of even asking them?" [/quote]
While it may be none of thier business, unfortunately, Breeders control the vote and, as in my case, have voted away gay civil rights that straights enjoy. THAT`s why their opinion is important and why getting the stupid superstitious religious perspective out of politics is important.

Gay is a sin so straight voters pass laws that Gays can`t teach in schools, adopt children, get married, etc etc etc. Well, if you can`t kill them I guess we just have to re-educated them.
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Male 129
I think the interviewer is an idiot and so are the people answering. Many were right the first time saying it might be a bit of both - nature and nurture.

Its like saying "Murderers are murderers because they are born that way. You, on the other hand, dont kill because you were not born a murderer". Thats just absurd logic.

The very purpose of life is to propagate itself. In strictly evolutionary terms, gays are a dead-end.
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Male 4,431
Here`s my simple challenge to those who believe it`s a choice: in the privacy of your own home, where no one can see you, open some pics of naked guys (if you`re a guy) or nakes girls (if you`re a girl) and simply choose to become aroused. Just to prove to yourself that you`re right and that it`s a choice. Come on hetero guys, just look and that nice, thick wang and just choose to be aroused, just to show me I`m an idiot. Can`t do it, eh? Not even slightly firm are you? Didn`t think so. Idiots.
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Male 621
Heterosexuals have no idea if it`s a choice or not, so what`s the point of even asking them? Why not ask a gay if it`s a choice or not? They seem to know the answer. Anytime I see a heterosexual person say that they think being gay is a choice, I want to smack the dumb right out of them.

It is NOT a choice...

As for a person`s upbringing being a factor, all it will determine is their tolerance towards gays by the time they reach adulthood. Parents who teach their kids to hate gays are the ones creating all the closet cases out there.
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Male 4,431
nosecret, if you weren`t so obviously trolling, I`d correct your gross misinterpretation of genetics. But, since, you`re a ridiculous troll, I`ll just not waste my time.
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Male 4,431
5Cats, please explain homosexuality in the animal kingdom, apart from humans? It`s been observed in every single species of mammal. I`m guessing you believe that`s a "choice" or "taught", too?! I call you many bad names, but do so nicely by not actually saying any of them, you .....!!!
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Male 663
I`m gay. I didn`t choose to be gay, and I don`t know any of my gay friends who would`ve chosen to be gay either, because it`s not an easy life believe me. And before anyone suggests it, I was raised well, with both a mother and a father, I have a good relationship with both, I played with the other kids just the way they played with each other, both male and female, and I had the same school life as everyone else. No revelations, no moulding into some sexual confusion, no pervy uncle or over affectionate teacher. I was raised normally (and raised well) but I`m gay. Didn`t choose it, but its just how I feel inside.

Did you choose to be straight?
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Male 12,365
Quick explanation of my example, for anyone who doesn`t want to look up what`s meant by dominant and recessive genes:

A man gets a hetero variant from one parent and a homo variant from the other. Homo variant is recessive, so he`s hetero...but he has both versions of the gene.

Same for a woman.

They have children. Half of his sperm and half of her eggs have the homo variant, half the hetero variant.

For each fertilised egg, there are four possible combinations:

Hetero from both - child is hetero and does not have the homo variant.

Hetero from him, homo from her - child is hetero and does have the homo variant.

Homo from him, hetero from her - child is hetero and does have the homo variant.

Homo from both - child is homo.

So in half of the possible outcomes, the child is hetero but has the homo variant of the gene, therefore could pass it on. Just as their parents did.
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Male 483
Ok, here`s my problem.

What does it matter if someone was born or chose to be gay or straight? Seriously?

If it is a human attraction (either love or lust) between two consenting adults, regardless of gender, how does it effect or hurt you?

I DO believe people are born gay or straight, but then again, I don`t see why my beliefs on the subject should even matter. Let people be themselves and express their feelings naturally.

Some people feel like their phobias should control other people. What a bunch of brats.
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Male 559
Hm...the argument that homosexuality is a genetic defect. Is this one`s last means of poking a stick at the political and moral future before being dragged away? I enjoyed looking at boys the same way that most guys enjoyed looking at girls when I was in junior high. But no one told me that homosexuality even existed, let alone that it was wrong. In fact, I even told my best friend one day that it was funny that we all pretended to like girls. He laughed at me, and I spent years trying to figure out what it was about girls that my friends liked. I fought my brain for years before finally giving up and I`m saddened that I missed out on the childhood that most of my friends had. I`m willing to talk to anyone who wants to muddy the waters of the definition of "choice," but what I can tell you, from the heart of a 12 year old boy, is that my choice was to be straight, but my brain and body wouldn`t let me.
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Male 12,365
[quote]let me throw out my unintelligent and biased scientific explanation. evolution would have ended the "born gay" people because they would not be reproducing.[/quote]

That`s not a scientific explanation. You can`t just label something "scientific" in order to give it false authority - all you do is make it clear that you have no clue.

I might as well say "Catholics are required to have homosexual sex on Tuesdays because the Pope says so". That would be an equally false appeal to authority.

Even if sexual orientation is genetic and even if it is determined by just one gene, that still wouldn`t lead to homosexuality evolving out of the species. The hetero variant of that gene would just have to be dominant compared to the homo variant. There are a multitude of recessive genes that remain in the gene pool. The one that causes blonde hair, for example.
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Male 12,365
[quote]It`s worth reading what Peter Tatchell a leading LBGT activist has to say on the matter[/quote]

Good grief, Peter Tatchell being reasonable and making sense! Whatever next?
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Male 10,855
Interesting article there nshimbi I wholeheartedly agree with it. Quite frankly, why should anyone be obsessed about suppressing the most harmonious means of north control in our society?
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Male 3,121
Sexuality is not- in my opinion- chosen.
I do however, know more or less when I realized I was hetero- The summer of 1966. I was 10. Saw `Laura`, with Gene Tierney, and I just knew.
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Male 10,855
[quote]MythBusters is NOT considered valid science[/quote]

Actually they do conduct quality experiments, but that myth wasn`t tested.
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Male 39,619

5Cats - [quote]"People choose their sexuality. Heterosexuality has been proven as learned" [/quote]
MythBusters is NOT considered valid science.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Heterosexuality has been proven as learned, HOW could homosexuality not also be learned?[/quote]

I thought about your Skinner box experiment, while it`s possible to teach how to MAKE love, it does not teach WHO to love. Very distinct categories.
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Male 39,619

Speaking from experience, I chose to be gay
immediatly after sex with Francis Snagley.

Kidding of course. Born that way.

@ nosecret - I counter your "gays don`t reproduce so they can`t be born that way" arguement with my own unintelligent and biased scientific explanation; Gays are the next step in evolution and that is why you see them popping up over and over in every culture acrossed the globe.
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Female 64
People can be so drating ignorant. Gay people will tell you that they were born gay.
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Male 7
Seriously, do you not think that this film has edited out intelligent answers as to why people choose the lifestyle they live. Gay or straight you choose, maybe not actively, but you do. The straight community is not a homogeneous group and in the choice to live a straight lifestyle there a fine nuances which are born out of sub concious choice.

It`s worth reading what Peter Tatchell a leading LBGT activist has to say on the matter: http://tinyurl.com/psuaud

IAB is full of examples of where people are dumb, let`s not fall into that same trap by swallowing shallow arguments like the one in this film.
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Male 1,931
People are very manipulative with basic wording. The last example is the clearest:

1) Clearly a choice.
2) I didn`t choose, I was born that way.
3) Not a choice.

Her entire prejudice and ignorance was shattered for a moment with basic logic. Too bad it won`t stick.
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Male 1,231
Some are born gay, some achieve gayness, and some have gayness thrust upon em`...
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Female 34
Yawn.
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Female 2,674
"evolution would have ended the "born gay" people because they would not be reproducing."
Except you`re disregarding the fact that being gay not being a choice does not mean that everyone is born gay. Also, even if the only humans left on the planet were gay, I`m sure some of them would get together and reproduce if only for the continuation of the species. But that would never happen. Ever consider people being born gay as a kind of population control? It`s not like gay people take up the majority of the population.

"but some how we still have gay people?"
I don`t think there`s a single gay gene but rather multiple factors. However, I`ll answer this anyway. Consider gay people being shunned by society and forced into straight marriages. Consider that genes can be dormant for generations before showing up again.
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Male 2,855
correct answer:
"when god instead of the devil touched my soul"
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Male 62
choice. let me throw out my unintelligent and biased scientific explanation. evolution would have ended the "born gay" people because they would not be reproducing. no reproduction of the "born gays" means no more gays. but some how we still have gay people? next thing the gays will be saying is that transexuals are born transexuals.
but, when all truths are revealed, we shall truly know whether or not men were supposed to stick their dicks into another man`s bumhole. haha
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Male 40,416
[quote]The thing that surprises me most is how quickly these people changed their tune.[/quote]
True @Patchgrabber, but there`s two reasons I can see:
#1 no one wants to appear politically incorrect, esp in front of a camera!
#2 it`s a "gotcha" question. If you`ve never considered this, it surprises you, you have no quick arguement so you`ll concede lots of ground.

[quote]Can a gay man not choose to be straight?[/quote]
@TKD_Master: lolz! Last time I said this at IAB I was called many bad names! Good luck to ya! Hope your skin is thich...
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Male 2,440
Hasn`t Dan Savage brought up this point before? He said if being gay is a choice then why doesn`t Tony Perkins choose to love Dan`s c*ck? It`s a fair point, Mr. Perkins. Now get on your knees!
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Male 40,416
People choose their sexuality. Heterosexuality has been proven as learned, HOW could homosexuality not also be learned?

When did I choose to be straight? About the same time I learned to like pizza, it happens in many steps over a long time, subconsciously.

If it IS genetic, then by golly it would be a genetic defect, since it precludes the specimens reproduction,eh?

Please do not bother to flame me: I DID NOT SAY it`s a disease! I do NOT believe that, m-kay? BUT those who say it`s 100% genetic are, by definition.
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Female 2,674
If I was a guy I`d wanna be a gay guy. But I think if I was born a straight guy I wouldn`t feel the same way :P
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Male 626
@cyborg
People don`t bring bisexuals up in the choice argument, because it is actually very hard to explain to people that while you can limit yourself to one gender and enjoy it, it is the same as pretending to be gay if you`re straight or straight if you`re gay.
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Male 53
It can be both. Some are born gay, for others it`s a choice, some become gay as a result of being victims of abuse while others again that are gay are perfectly healthy and normal individuals, etc., etc. Homosexuality runs from both sides of the extremes and everything inbetween so these so-called black and white loaded questions are essentially useless for determining anything meaningful other than to shape people`s thought patterns a certain way other than the overarching reality. All gay people are not the same just as all heterosexual people are not the same. The more we try to twist perceptions for our own comfort or agenda the bigger problem it becomes instead of a lesser one.
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Male 2,790
everyone always forgets the bisexual people...
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Male 4,793
1: 57 = best answer in the world. From the most hick looking guy in the world, second to larry the cable guy of course. But DAMN this is a great question to ask the anti-gay people.
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Male 1,693
WIN
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Male 4,793
Why has nobody considered both yet? Can a straight man not choose to be gay if he wants? Can a gay man not choose to be straight? I`m not saying it is choice, I`m saying people are born with their alignment (there are genes for it for fuc*s sake) and people are also able to choose what they want to do, be it men or women. (see what i did there?)
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Male 6,737
Hmmmmm.

In todays media and schooling you`re taught from a young age about boys and girls and sex, homosexual sex isn`t covered until later. So kids are growing up thinking that is the only way. Perhaps if they were brought up with both Hetero and Homosexual relationships being equal we might see more acceptance.
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Male 5,811
The thing that surprises me most is how quickly these people changed their tune.
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Female 8,043
Link: A Simple Question About Homosexuality [Rate Link] - Sometimes the simplest thing can change people`s perspective. What is your answer? Choice or born gay?
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