The Most Damning Protest Sign Yet [Pic]

Submitted by: Rested 5 years ago in

This protest was recently seen at a Occupy Wall Street rally. Hard to fight these facts, eh Wall Street fat cats?
There are 137 comments:
Male 57
20+20+20+20+20+1 =101
a mathematical impossibility
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Male 4,099
@QueenZira- "Rich knock it off with all the think tank garbage. Cato exists to pay the salaries of idea men in the Rep. party. It doesn`t even have a casual relation to facts or evidence."

Don`t like Cato eh? Well i have to admit, sky dancing blog is...entertaining. Ok, no problem do you accept Economy textbooks?
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Female 2,228
Rich knock it off with all the think tank garbage.

Cato exists to pay the salaries of idea men in the Rep. party. It doesn`t even have a casual relation to facts or evidence. I have to chuckle everytime a Rep. rube really thinks they can pull the wool over other`s eyes.
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Male 617
They aren`t facts...so...
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Male 3,482
[quote]So, they create wealth and become sucessful--and they`re called "fat cats"? They`re being damned for being good?[/quote]
Actually, considering that the only time REAL wealth is created from trading stocks is when the company first sells them, they`re being damned for creating inflation and various problems with our economy because all they`re doing is making money... By having money.

Wall Street traders don`t create a product. Only the first person to buy stocks from the company contributes to the company`s ability to create a product and create REAL wealth for the entire economy in the process.

After that, it`s just like gambling: I`m going to take this $1,000, throw a few dice, and turn it into $10,000,000.

The only difference is that it`s less about luck.

In the end, the only thing they`ve "created" is artificial money, with contributes to damn near every problem that the lower classes suffer from.
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Male 4,099
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Female 795
And the raw data for that sign is supposedly here
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Male 525
Wall Street "fat cats"?

So, they create wealth and become sucessful--and they`re called "fat cats"? They`re being damned for being good?

I don`t want to live on this planet anymore.

Also, even though I`m not a mod, I like this website and I want to see people having civil discussions. So, this means: please stop using the Argument by Dismissal fallacy. Seriously, it`s getting annoying. And by that, I mean it`s annoying when I bring up a valid point and it`s "dismissed" with retarded fallacies--and it ends up making you look like a trolling idiot.

The simple fact that one is free to leave a socialist country does not affect the immorality of socialism.
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Male 1,598
Cool, there`s like a rainbow down there.
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Male 3,482
(cont.)

Nor have they hired 300,000 new employees.

And when the company isn`t growing exponentially, where do you think the money for their exponential pay-raises comes from?
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Male 3,482
[quote]Some CEO`s IMO are over paid, but on average I say they more then earn their pay.[/quote]
CEO`s should be paid according to how well their company performs under their control.

In this economy, not many companies are doing amazing, and I doubt ANY of them are doubling and tripling in size.

During fair weather, when the company is doing amazing, it`s fine for their pay to grow proportional to their company`s growth, which could be exponential (which is why no one complains when everything`s okay: everything`s okay, their company grows, they earn their pay raise).

But with the economy in the condition it`s in, with businesses going under, high unemployment, steadily rising cost of living, etc., there`s no excuse for their pay to grow exponentially, because their company isn`t growing exponentially.

My employer company is doing well, all things considered, but they haven`t opened more than 3,000 new stores in the last year.
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Male 2,419
@stifler
20%+20%+20%+20%+20%=100%
the green is TOP 20%, not NEXT 20%, which is why it actually moves up
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Male 33
Meant to write see how it collapsed in 2001 not 2011.
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Male 33
Why does his chart end in 2007? It`s 2011. I smell a rat. See how the red line collapsed during the recession of 2011. Same thing would have happened in 2008. Plus it would have been even worse for the rich had the politicians not bailed them out with my taxes.
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Male 667
Hmmm, chart showing 101% of salary earners average incomes?
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Male 495
On another note, is she holding that sign on a crutch?
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Male 495
@randomxnp seems pretty clear to understand to me.
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Male 1,449
@Altura: That is exactly the point. Look at your responsibilities at work versus your CEO. If you work for a large company, your CEO works/is on call 24 hours a day, including vacations. He is responsible for everything your company does and even for you. If you did anything to majorly embarrass the company, he is the one called onto the carpet about it to the board and the shareholders, not you. The current economic environment stinks, how has your company performed? How many people at your company still have a job? Has it performed in a way that perhaps he has earned the extra pay? Lately, a lot of CEO`s have been fired for not doing their job well. The higher you move up the pyramid, the less footing you have. Some CEO`s IMO are over paid, but on average I say they more then earn their pay.
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Male 1,293
In what way is that damning? It is impossible to interpret, so is meaningless.
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Male 146
Again, the problem is not the corporations, it is the entitlement crowd. Someone please explain to me why I , as a tax payer should guarantee a public union employee pension @ around 100% of there salary for the simple fact that they work for the government. God forbid they have to contribute to their own retirement or insurance for that matter.God forbid they have to contribute to their own retirment or insurance for that matter.
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Female 74
@splurbyburbl:

I`m basing my comments on the assumption that these statistics are true. I won`t bother trying to verify the source. Needless to say, I didn`t draw any conclusions outside of the data shown in the picture (aside from a small joke). If you have a problem with the statistics provided, take it up with the Congressional Budget Office.

And no, I won`t take that to the bank. They`d probably just steal 12.34% of it and squander 15.66% of the remaining amount. Then they`ll lie and claim they have 92.8% of it left when they really only have 22.4%. There`s an 88% chance of this being true. :-) Ah, I see what you did there. Haha! :-D I gave myself a headache after rereading my posts.
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Male 10,440
[quote] An American living at the poverty level has a bigger house and a higher standard of living that the average European. That`s not the average European at the poverty level; that the average of ALL Europeans.

Let me guess: That statistic is also including the Eastern European countries that are still barely out of second and third-world standards?

I`d also like to see where this was taken from, BTW. Source or bullsh*t. [/quote]

It`s bullsh*t. It`s like saying Osama was a Christian, don`t bother asking for sources.
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Male 2,796
@AmishHacker and Jonix:

The statistics you gave out were only 98% faulty with a 2% margin of error on that faultiness. You are both 53.3333% wrong 67% of the time which means I am right all the time on an average of 1.3% of the time.

You can take that to the bank. I got all my facts online so it`s legit.
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Male 303
OMG not everyone can make $500,000/ year? Time for revolt!
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Male 1,836
[quote]Yeah...duplicate what the top people do. Just compromise any morals you might have before proceeding, otherwise the guilt will probably drive you to suicide.[/quote]
You seem to be leaving out the honest business people. Maybe you should consider following their lead instead of the crooks.
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Male 1,836
[quote">Well now that you`ve solved that mystery, on to curing AIDS and world peace. Idiot.[/quote">

There are plenty of scientists making great progress on the AIDS issue that are better qualified tham myself. AIDS Research WIN

As for world peace, I can only control my own actions, that is my contribution.

:-)
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Female 74
What`s more, you can see the biggest change between the Top 1% and the Top 20% between years `03 and `07. Where the Top 1% continues to rise with no end in sight, around 2004, the Top 20% sort of drops and/or stagnates. This shows that the remaining 19% of the wealthiest 20% in the nation couldn`t keep up with the Top 1%, and even lost money since we don`t see a spike in the Top 20% like we do in the Top 1%.

But the Top 1% need all the money they can get. I mean, who else is going to buy these $6,400 iToilets? Do you have any idea how much it`s gonna cost to replace all 12 toilets in their mansions, much less in their other 3 homes? DO YOU??! I think they need a raise!
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Female 74
I can`t believe how many times this has to be explained.... ignore the Top 1% for 1 second and look at this:

Top 20% = 81%-100%
Second 20% = 61%-80%
Third 20% = 41%-60%
Fourth 20% = 21%-40%
Bottom 20% = 1%-20%

The Top 1% is separate in that it shows the average income of the VERY TOP 1% of the population based on income. If you look, you can see that the Top 1% is included in the Top 20% because you can see the Top 1%`s influence on the line.

The chart is accentuating the extreme difference in average income between the Top 1% to the remaining 19% of the Top 20% and everyone else, ESPECIALLY since the Top 1% IS INCLUDED in the Top 20% calculation.

I really don`t know how better to explain this... so I hope that helps.
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Male 146
Gerry1.. Well at least we agree on that, enjoy the weather down there today!
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Female 412
So somehow there are 101% of Americans in this chart...?
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Male 39,576

CRAIGJ - I`m also in CA, San Diego! No, I am not in favor of giving college education to illegals. What is the point of that if it`s not legal to hire them? After spending the money on their college, they are unemployable.

They take up space and resources in a class room that could go to a citizen.
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Male 3,482
[quote]Are you a public employee and part of a public employee union? If you are you are the last one that should be complaining.[/quote]

No, actually, I work for a private company. A successful one, at that.

So your point is invalid. I ask again, why has my pay only gone up a percent point, while theirs has doubled and tripled?

I do the same things I did a year ago. They do the same things they did a year ago. But they`re getting paid proportionally more by exponents, and I`m getting paid proportionally LESS, actually, when you consider that my cost of living has shot up faster than my pay.

Which, again, is partially their fault in the first place.
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Male 2,345
the fact is that over the last 30 years incomes have stagnated and failed to rise with the cost of living.

this is the result of concepts like trickle down economics, which is really just another way of saying, "SUCK IT POOR PEOPLE", or "the Rich stay Rich and the poor...who cares about them".

by the way if you are not rich you most likely are poor, no middle class, as that is a bygone class.
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Male 146
altaru.. Are you a public employee and part of a public employee union? If you are you are the last one that should be complaining. Public unions are much more of a drain on the economy than the corporations.
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Male 146
Gerry1, The average house hold income of 79 is not the same as it is today... sorry. The chart is incorrect. So do you support getting rid of illegals then or atleast enforcing the current laws? Here in CA we just gave them in state tuition finacial aid, from my tax money. Oh and they also raised tuition for everyone else.
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Male 39,576

CRAIGJ - that`s right. pay scales have not risen. Keep in mind it is an "average". Yes, minimum wage went up and that is a pay scale increase. But consider another industry where pay dropped to 1/3rd what it was. Meat Packing jobs paid $18ph in 1980. Now it`s full of illegals earning less than minimum wage.

This year I`ve seen grocery store jobs that paid $12 - $18 ph drop to $8 by large corporations moving in and killing off existing business.

If your pay has increaded, well done. Good for you. But most poor sons-a-bitches are drowning.
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Female 2,228
Intrigid, I`ve never played the Sims, but I doubt your analogy is good here either. Corporate tax loopholes essentially ensure that they don`t pay anything at all at tax time. I know for a fact that GE paid nothing in corporate tax last time around, you and I paid more as individual people than GE did as a large corporate entity. That`s f*ucked up. (I believe that is the technical term).
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Female 2,228
Amishacker, analogy fail.

Theolonious, the poor contribute the most because they have to spend just to be able to survive. They`re not gonna just plop it in the bank for jr. to get some yrs. later.

Craig, the source is the CBO, Congressional Budget Office, they`re a bunch of clerks, accountants, number crunchers (take your pick) whose one and only job is number crunching all day. I`m gonna stick with them.

Thanks Altaru, for your clarification. :-)
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Male 3,482
[quote]@Altaru, Your pay vs executive`s pay: Ok what responsibilities do you have versus theirs?[/quote]
That`s not even the point here.

The point is: I have the same responsibilities I did a year ago. (Hell, I might even have more considering that my city has recently had a ton of people move in, and I think ALL of them are functionally retarded to be honest...)

They have the same responsibilities they did a year ago.

So why is their doubling and tripling while mine goes up barely enough to keep up with inflation (which is partially their fault as well...)?

And again, it`s not like they`re less expendable in the end: there`s plenty of other qualified people ready to take over the position should the Exec make a single mistake, just like there`s hundreds of people ready to claim my job if I should quit or be fired.
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Male 15,832
[quote]Let me guess: That statistic is also including the Eastern European countries that are still barely out of second and third-world standards?[/quote]
You`re close. It includes Eastern European countries that are just now starting to recover from the same socialist, redistributive central planning that you and your ilk are advocating.
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Male 15,832
[quote]It is a fact that hard work gets you absolutely nowhere.[/quote]
Don`t stop believin`, Yaezakura. After all, SOMEBODY`S gotta clean the toilets.
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Male 146
So your telling me you believe that 80% of the populations income has not risen since 1979? I call BS.Anyone can make any type of chart they want, does not make it fact. Most of the OWS crowd are a bunch of sheep that will believe anything negative they are told about corperate America, wether it`s true or not.
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Male 3,310
They should have a graph that shows household spending. You know, money going back into the economy. I bet those poor people contribute the least!
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Male 73
So I looked up the source and the 1% was making an average of $1,743,700. So lets be "fair" and take all of his money away and divide it out among everyone else. Of course lets not leave him completely broke so I say we give him the second 20% average of 89,500. So that leaves us with $1,654,200. AWESOME time to spread the wealth. Here are the actual numbers on the chart.

Bottom 20% - 17,200
Forth 20% - 39,400
Third 20% - 60,700
Second 20% - 89,500
Top 20% - 248,400 (which would include the 1% but I do not have the numbers to break that down to the top 19%)

Now we each get an additional $16,079 from the 1%. If you charted this on this persons graph. You would not hardly move the ink but a pixel or two. Actually I am guessing it would drop most of them all because the 1% that was hiring you went out of business. Stop worrying about what the 1% have. Yes! 1 person in 100 is probably doing better than you.
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Male 886
Hrmm...duplicate what the people on top do...

Ahh, so I should take a successful business run it into the ground, fudge profit reports, steal the employees 401k monies, run a ponzi scheme, bribe politicians to make it easier for me to circumvent the will of the people for the better of the company?

Yeah...for some reason, unknown to me, people seem to get upset when fatcats do these things and see 11 mos. inside a country club prison whereas joe sixpack is homeless struggling to eat everyday and steals $100 from a bank and gets six years.

Yeah...duplicate what the top people do. Just compromise any morals you might have before proceeding, otherwise the guilt will probably drive you to suicide.
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Male 2,419
@insane_ai
So I take it you`re ok with this

and outsourcing more jobs to kids in the 3rd world working for pennies a day?
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Male 1,312
"Don`t like being on the bottom of the graph?
Try duplicating what the people on the top do. You may just get there."

Well now that you`ve solved that mystery, on to curing AIDS and world peace. Idiot.
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Male 32
"Don`t like being on the bottom of the graph?
Try duplicating what the people on the top do. You may just get there."

Never was a wiser sentence written, it`s where I`m headed.
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Female 269
@ Lenarit
I believe it`s called reaching the breaking point. Just like someone poking you once or twice isn`t annoying, but after 20 minutes of it, you`re ready to break their fingers.
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Male 1,836
Don`t like being on the bottom of the graph?
Try duplicating what the people on the top do. You may just get there.
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Male 43
why is everybody complaining. everyones income,except for the first 21%, has not changed for the last three decades :) they did not complain then, so why now...
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Male 3,369
@gymcoach: I`d be willing to bet that it`s the top and second 20% that are employers, not the 1% that simply make profits by manipulating the system and buying off our politicians.
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Male 363
Who do you think is employing those of us who have jobs? The bottom 20%? The system is obviously not perfect but I would rather have a job from a rich guy than be dependent on the government.
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Male 14,331
How did the 1% earn their money? By failing to run their companies correctly and taking our money to bail themselves out? Most of these 1% inherited their money and did nothing for it and it shows.
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Male 1
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Male 266
Yeah that`s right capitalists... keep sucking up to the top 1%... nevermind the fact that they wouldn`t even take a piss on you if you were on fire. Keep fighting for their right to eat all the cake, see if you get an extra crumble.
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Female 1,743
Or multiple beaters, for that matter.
Weeee.
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Female 1,743
"Most families have multiple cars today, whereas only the very wealthy could afford that kind of luxury in the 1950s."

Multiple car loans, too.
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Male 8
"Finally, the cheapness of cell phones is not an indicator of wealth. That`s an indicator of technological advancement."

If this is a response to me, I never said cheapness of cell phones was an indicator of wealth, I said it was an indicator that our standard of living is not decreasing. Most families have multiple cars today, whereas only the very wealthy could afford that kind of luxury in the 1950s.
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Male 697
subliminal gay pride poster?
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Male 4,099
also, in the pic, the top 20% has a far lower figure then the top 1%. You`d figure 1/20th makes that much in an already larger income category, it would pull the mean average up because of the top 1%, so what is offsetting it. Or it just comes to 101%, which is illogical. Didn`t crunch any numbers here, but something seems wrong with the graphs depiction of percentages.
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Male 173
Shame he/she didn`t put up the "household income index over the last 10 years divided by price indexes". This shows that the poorest 20% actually have gotten more poor. And it shows that the richest are getting richer at a higher speed than any other segment.
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Male 4,099
@ Yaezakura- "It is a fact that hard work gets you absolutely nowhere. The only way to make it anywhere, in any business, is to know the right people."

I think that is your opinion not a fact. I started with nothing, my parents just didn`t have enough spare change to help me out. I worked for several companies DRD, H&M Piping, warehouses, and a Value City. I worked hard, was able to get overtime when it came, received pay raises, and eventually was promoted in each position. Now there were some companies that this didn`t happen in, but I quit those jobs. Four months ago I had made enough to move out of my parents home and rent an apartment with my best friend. Now I`m slowly building my money to go back to college and at least get my Bachelor`s degree. It doesn`t happen overnight, but I assure you it does happen, even in this economy.
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Male 226
I started out making $8/hr in 1994 working in a factory. Rent was $300/mo. Car insurance for a brand new driver was $80/mo. I could get by on $25 for food each week. Gas for my `78 Chevelle cost $18 to fill a 20gal tank.

Cut to 2011. I make $20/hr, and that`s for a job that I have specialized training to do. My rent is well over $900/mo, and that`s cheap now. Car insurance? Food? Gas? Ridiculous.

In short, over the course of 17 years, my pay is 2.5x what I started out making, but my expenses have more than tripled in a lot of cases.

I carry no credit cards. No debt. I`m not stupid, I realize I`m just barely scraping by, and I refuse to kill myself with another monthly payment.

And yet, I can still barely get by.
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Male 21
@Yaezakura,youre exactly right about that.Alt least for me anyway.My dad was the only job in the household until my mom had to go to work in 1980.Then when i was old enough I joined the workforce in 1985.I eventually became an electrician and in the 90 when I got married the average hourly wage in my area was $14 hr,now its 18-20 hr and the cost of living has more than tripled.In less than one year the rent on some apts i lived in almost doubled.Its ridiculous.
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Male 583
razlem is gay
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Male 1,449
@Altaru, Your pay vs executive`s pay: Ok what responsibilities do you have versus theirs?
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Female 385
@OldOllie

Except, you know, not. It is a fact that hard work gets you absolutely nowhere. The only way to make it anywhere, in any business, is to know the right people. And to know the right people, you typically already have to have money. Unless you come up with some world-changing invention, if you are born poor, you will pretty much always be poor.

Do poor people today make more than the poor people of 20 years ago? Yes. But basic living costs have also increased, so making more money means at best they`ve stayed effectively just as poor, and are more likely even worse off.
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Male 749
@LoveToSpooge:[quote] ...only stupidly diehard patriots and people making 80k+ a year can still be trying to argue against the existence of socioeconomic oppression...there`s no way to convince some people[/quote]

First, numbers, even if interpreted creatively, do not PROVE oppression. Numbers show a perspective on results, not intent.

Second, I agree that there is no way to convince some people. Some people have been so deeply steeped in liberal propaganda in public schools that they never learned critical thinking and can only spout knee jerk emotional reactions based on poorly developed, externally defined `feelings`. I bet that when you were a kid watching Peter Pan on TV, you must have thought that your clapping really did save Tinkerbell.

...but you speak from the heart, you`re passionate about the subject, and you have the best of intents. Too bad you`re an idiot.
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Female 412
@psycotic: It does not equal 101%, because the top 1% are included the top 20%.
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Male 9
Anyone else notice that it equals 101%
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Male 11
On a serious note, only stupidly diehard patriots and people making 80k+ a year can still be trying to argue against the existence of socioeconomic oppression. The numbers PROVE it and the experts CONFIRM it, buttt short of Fox News admitting it, there`s no way to convince some people
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Male 3,482
[quote]An American living at the poverty level has a bigger house and a higher standard of living that the average European. That`s not the average European at the poverty level; that the average of ALL Europeans.[/quote]
Let me guess: That statistic is also including the Eastern European countries that are still barely out of second and third-world standards?

I`d also like to see where this was taken from, BTW. Source or bullsh*t.
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Male 15,832
[quote]i learned in my capitalism class that in america our rich are getting richer and are poor are staying the same.[/quote]
It`s too bad your capitalism class wasn`t taught by an actual capitalist instead of a socialist idiot. The fact is, the so-called poor are much better off today than they were in the past. An American living at the poverty level has a bigger house and a higher standard of living that the average European. That`s not the average European at the poverty level; that the average of ALL Europeans. Also, the people who were in the bottom 20% 10 years ago aren`t the same people who are there now. Nearly all of them have since moved up into the higher quintiles and have been replaced with younger people who are largely unskilled and inexperienced and thus aren`t worth more than a poverty-level wage.
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Male 914
"Intrigrid, asking corps. to pay their taxes, to give something back to the society that allowed them to get as far as they have and let someone else have the same chance they had is in no way, "stealing," although it`s illuminating that you frame it that way.
"

They`re already giving back to society by hiring people, taking financial risks, and providing innovation in their products/services.

Also, the base income tax rate for high income earners in the U.S. is 35%. That doesn`t count medicare taxes or state taxes, which tend to push it well into the 40s. There`s a certain threshold where taxing too high actually causes government revenue to fall. You might have noticed this if you`ve ever played SimCity. It`s not just true in the video game, but in real life too.
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Male 936
most big businesses hire people outside of the country if they can. They only hire Americans when they absolutely have no choice. Then there are those big businesses like Walmart that dont even pay a decent salary to their employees or provide any benefits. They have earned that money and they deserve to have it, but their greed is whats getting people riled up. Walmart really cant afford full benefits for their employees? Of course they can. The CEO will still live in his mansion too. The problem is that they dont. A companys success has a lot more to do with the workforce than the CEO. If every walmart emmployee decided to not come in to work tomorrow they would lose millions of dollars. Sure, you dont need a college education and anyone can be trained to work at one of their stores, but they are extremely important for the success of the franchise and should be paid as such. Im not saying they should make six figures or anything but their pay should match their importance
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Male 3,482
[quote]Altaru, clarify your point please. My point was that American banking practices made other countries want to try what we did, with the same predictably disastrous results.[/quote]
That`s exactly my point.

Here in America, we told them to go wild, and it was profitable. Around the world, others followed that example and, beyond that, ended up relying on the American businesses because it was more profitable.

Until it wasn`t anymore. Then no one had any idea what to do, and things hit the fan.

And it all comes back to us telling them to go wild, and the monkey see, monkey do mentality of businesses when profit is involved.
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Male 1,196
i learned in my capitalism class that in america our rich are getting richer and are poor are staying the same.
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Male 47
@lastrogue, it isn`t a pie chart.
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Male 15,832
I don`t have a problem with this. It`s not like they stole that money. If they hadn`t have made it, it simply would not exist. But the fact is, the rich use that money to expand their businesses and hire people -- unless, of course, you tell they aren`t going to be allowed to keep the profit they would earn from that employee. Then they invest their money in T-bills and tax-free municipal bonds and tell the rest of the world to go fap.
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Female 2,228
* And/or 2nd page. [email protected], I`m tired.
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Female 2,228
Lastrouge, Vegascartman et. al. see 1st page for your answers.

Altaru, clarify your point please. My point was that American banking practices made other countries want to try what we did, with the same predictably disastrous results. Not that we said, we`ll pick up your slack.
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Male 176
someone needs to check their facts.. I count 101% on that sign. wtf!?!? come on protestors get your math right, it`s basic shiz yo.
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Female 2,228
Intrigrid, asking corps. to pay their taxes, to give something back to the society that allowed them to get as far as they have and let someone else have the same chance they had is in no way, "stealing," although it`s illuminating that you frame it that way.

And no, having them pay less taxes and cutting regulations that look out for everybody else`s common good will not create jobs. They will sit on the tax cut monies, (You don`t solve a demand side problem with a supply side solution) and add more lead to your paint and more rat feces to your candy bars for good measure.
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Male 3,482
[quote]It beautifully illustrates why taxing and regulating businesses would only make America`s jobs situation worse. People like to talk about corporations as if they`re all evil monopolies that can do whatever they want.[/quote]
But, like the typical conservative argument says: They should have saved up for that rainy day, they should have planned for it. They should have had plans B-Z ready to go, and a plan AA for escaping the country if things got too bad, right?

It would be the government`s fault, of course, but isn`t the usual conservative argument that no one is to blame but yourself?

Unless the government is to blame, I suppose. Double standard`s for everyone!
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Male 734
And this is a bad thing because??????
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Male 10,440
It would be clearer if that chart was on semi-log, although it would be more depressing to see just how many orders of magnitude there are between richest and poorest.
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Male 914
"After all, I`ve said it once and I`ll say it again: You can always LEAVE America for somewhere that won`t tax you. "

Brilliant statement. It beautifully illustrates why taxing and regulating businesses would only make America`s jobs situation worse. People like to talk about corporations as if they`re all evil monopolies that can do whatever they want. They`re not. Many of them fail, and many of them have very precarious futures in this economy.
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Male 3,482
[quote]I earned what I have, and you?[/quote]
Indeed, I have.

I`ve been working the same job for a year or so now, and I`m making a little more than I was when I started out. I`m fine with that. I didn`t expect an exponential spike in my income. After all, I`m still doing the same work, so why should I be paid a ton more? I`m perfectly content with my job and paycheck.(I`m not exactly ambitious or motivated, but that`s beside the point.)

That doesn`t change the fact, however, that some Executive who`s doing the same amount of work he was doing a year ago, and was already making millions, has had his income spike exponentially, doubling or better. It`s not even like he`s suddenly become worth that much more to the company, the Board still has nine or ten replacements on call if he should keel over or f*ck up...

And I don`t know how you can NOT see something wrong with that.
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Male 914
"Don`t call people morons when your opening statement is that vapid. It`s not inflation.

SHARE of income is a separate issue to inflation. "

Look at the image again. It`s not illustrating the SHARE of incomes. It`s illustrating incomes in a pure dollar amount. It`s charted in such a way that it`s impossible to see the change in the lower income brackets, and hence, impossible to see the true expansion in the wealth gap.

I`m not denying the fact that the gap between the rich and poor has expanded, and tragically so. But by original point still stands, which is that this sign is an epic fail. If the socialist protesters had their way, that gap will only increase. It can sound crazy, I know, that stealing from the rich and giving to the poor can actually increase the wealth gap, but it`s the reality. That`s what happens when corporate entities that should be allowed to fail are bailed out.
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Male 3,482
[quote]the global financial crisis is always traceable back to the US in some way.[/quote]
Well DUH.

America`s always been the country that basically said "do whatever you want, we`ll clean up your mess."

And every time someone`s tried to change that, they`ve been called a socialist and been boo`ed off the stage.

Only now are we finally starting to wake up and realize that the constant cycle of rise and fall that attitude causes is destructive to all of us in the long run.

Especially considering that, more than once, the only reason we`ve really come out of the crash has been a war. But that`s not working this time: we tried, and it`s clearly failing...

Of course, some people are STILL too stupid to face the facts.
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Male 3,482
Oh, and to everybody saying "that`s 101%"...

The top 1% is part of the top 20%. It`s just showing that, despite the top 1%`s income spiking, it hasn`t done anything even for the average of the top 20%.

I thought that would be considered common sense, but okay...
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Male 3,482
[quote]That sounds a lot to me like you`re advocating slavery.[/quote]
Do I have to say it again, Archer?

It`s extortion. Not slavery.

I said it before, it`s not much better, regardless of the reasons. But there`s a massive difference.

I`d like to see you look someone who actually WAS a slave in the eye and tell them that, having money to live on, and having some of it taken so that both yourself and other people are able to enjoy benefits, is slavery.

And actually, it`s not even extortion. After all, you make the CHOICE to pay, right? After all, I`ve said it once and I`ll say it again: You can always LEAVE America for somewhere that won`t tax you.

I hear Somalia`s real nice for people that don`t like paying taxes.
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Male 719
Homeless people are more likely to have cell phones than land lines.

Therefore, homeless people are richer than people with homes.
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Male 4,546
Finally, the cheapness of cell phones is not an indicator of wealth. That`s an indicator of technological advancement.

The price of a computer has gone down by 90% over the last 10 years: Look.

Now, what about food in the last 10 years?
Up 147%.

In other words:
Phone: $10, first hand. (You can even get some for free depending on your network plan). In other words, less than a Pizza.
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Male 2,841
Do these guys have any clue what inflation is?
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Male 570
it`s on a crutch....
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Male 4,546
"It`s called inflation, you morons."

Don`t call people morons when your opening statement is that vapid. It`s not inflation.

SHARE of income is a separate issue to inflation. The following should basically be parallel lines, under any level of inflation:



Do they look parallel to you? Wipe the drool away before calling people morons.
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Male 4,546
"Practice what you preach, davymid. Sell your TT, buy a Lada Granta and give the rest back to the government to be "redistributed"."

"Increase taxes by X% " is not equivalent to giving away all your stuff.

Just like you saying "Taxes should be X% lower" doesn`t mean I go "Then abandon your citizenship, don`t use the roads, undo your education, kill your parents, drink pollution, and die in a fire and/or plane crash, and if you happen do be assaulted don`t call the police, give up your right to vote, join the neo-nazis and start learning German".

It`s a bullpoo extreme.

In further response however:
Individual charity already exists to the degree it will ever exist. It is clearly insufficient. Saying "lets try charity" is logically inconsistent with reality.
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Male 758
Viva la revolution!!!!
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Male 914
It`s called inflation, you morons. For f*ck`s sake.
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Male 546
lol.... class envy

I earned what I have, and you?
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Male 439
Practice what you preach, davymid. Sell your TT, buy a Lada Granta and give the rest back to the government to be "redistributed".
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Male 95
those "facts" look made up to me
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Female 64
You say you want a revolution? Well, you know... we`d all love to see the plan.

Complaining is the first step. Now we need a workable solution.
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Female 2,927
all this just reminds me of Marie Antoinette and what became of her. dont push the poor masses to far, history has shown that it wont end well for anyone.
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Male 266
Wake up U.S. You`ve been lied to. Redistribution of wealth is good for almost anyone, and hardly moves those in monetary power. If a country as "pooty" as Argentina can pay for my engineering studies, send me to Germany (which, mind you, im not behind at all from those guys academically) and give financial to my poorer classmates, imagine what a little socialism can do on your country.
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Male 12,138
[quote]Davymid... That sounds a lot to me like you`re advocating slavery.[/quote]
Correction, that`s just you being a dick.
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Male 33
They have no need to "fight these facts". They aren`t aware, and could not care less. We need an "American Spring"!
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Male 1,793
bullpoo...
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Male 208
It seems to actually show how much taxes is being paid by people. Yup, top one percent all ready pays more than the bottom 99 combined
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Male 525
@davymid: You believe in "spreading the wealth around?" You cannot talk about "spreading around wealth" without implying that the wealth was yours to begin with.

In other words, you say that the wealth is yours despite whoever took it upon himself to produce it.

That sounds a lot to me like you`re advocating slavery.
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Male 10,440
[quote] I was earning six figures (US Dollar equivalent) straight out of grad school in my mid-20`s [/quote]
Shaiza! What was your degree in Davy?
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Male 8
@Zira -- `The standard of living has decreased and then people wonder why?`

I wasn`t around in the 50`s, but did every family have multiple cars, multiple televisions in their homes, etc.? The standard of living has gone UP -- just look at the fact that there are more cell phones in the country than there are people.

The vast array of inexpensive luxuries that are available to virtually all people are not an indicator of how the standard of living has decreased. Just the opposite, in fact.
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Male 25,417
Awww... facts on the internet are always true as well.
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Male 1,625
>top 1% only goes up to <2million

didn`t Mike Vick just sign a contract for $16 million/year? are the protestors protesting sports too?
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Female 2,228
Jon Stewart recently had the dude who wrote "Boomerang" on The Daily Show, a book about how the global financial crisis is always traceable back to the US in some way. So in theory, you could always have standing in these discussions, not to put you on the spot or anything.

It`s funny because he said how the different countries have handled the crisis is very culturally characteristic, for example the Irish have been expecting this for sometime now. And of course, all the status in Irish gatherings goes to the one who suffered the most recently, they`ve been waiting to compete w/ each other for who has it worst, he joked. ;-)
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Male 3,894
@davymid this.
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Male 12,138
Nah Zira, staying out of this one. Not my fight. America`s broken, and that`s for Americans to fix. Anyone even vaguely familiar with these boards knows my position on the matter anyway.

I know anyone can say any old sh*t on the internet, but this is actually true. I was earning six figures (US Dollar equivalent) straight out of grad school in my mid-20`s, my first car was an Audi TT etc etc. I`m certainly not in the 1%, but probably at the base of the top 20%.

And yet I still remain a socialist. I really do believe in spreading the wealth *to a healthy extent* which supports a well-functioning society. This comes from witnessing (and living in) various countries around the world in Europe, Africa, the Middle East and North America... And some of the most socialised countries are some of the best places I`ve ever lived, Norway being a prime example.

Anyways, you`ve coerced me into a discussion I didn`t want to get involved in... You guys carry on, I`ll mod
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Male 2,796
98% of the time IAB posts don`t make any statistical sense on an average of 43% of the time.

This is before taxes and completely factual 101% of the time.
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Female 2,228
Davy go ahead & leap right in! Someone as intelligent and worldly as you need not pass some pesky arbitrary transnational boundary to weigh in on it. Please do.
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Female 2,228
The system rewards people who move money around, not people who produce anything, manufacturing is an extinct dinosaur in this country. People who work hard and play by the rules are NOT getting paid their labor`s worth, things for the working man & woman have been atrocious in this country for 30+ yrs.

The richest few have made the rules, bought the pols, and *refused to pay their taxes*. (Like in those glorious halcyon days of the `50s Cons always wax nostalgic about) The standard of living has decreased and then people wonder why?
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Male 12,138
Not commenting on the validity of the protests, but just on statistics for those complaining that it adds to 101%: The sign shows percentiles, not absolutes. It doesn`t have to add to 100%. A line could be added to the graph for the 75th percentile and the 25th percentile of income. That doesn`t make it 201%, it`s still showing various distribution points of a 100% whole, in this case income.

Sheesh.
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Male 525
@QueenZira: In other words, "They don`t hate success! They hate other people being more successful than them! They hate that the system rewards money based on how much you produce and that the system should give them more money than their labor is worth!"
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Male 7,378
You know what happens when bubbles burst? Things get ugly.
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Female 2,228
"Americans don`t resent people`s success, The 99% don`t resent that there is a top 1%, they resent the fact that the system stopped working for them. The resent the fact that the top 1% now inhabits a different economy than the rest of us, an economy w/ different rules *they* got to make up. When you look at this trend, how this looks and feels to people, you can`t imagine that this is sustainable in the long run."-Ezra Klein.
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Male 39,576

That`s 101%... um... okay
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Male 525
"A protestor is holding the graph on a sign--it must be true!"
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Female 2,228
"You have to ask yourself, how is it that the top 1% are doing so great? They haven`t been playing more by the rules. Or getting more educated. And here`s the really important part if you want to understand why the other 99% are out protesting and why they`re calling their movement OWS. How come they haven`t brought anyone else w/ them?

If you look at what everyone was making in 1945 we were all pretty much near each other, everyone rose and fell together. And then we didn`t. About the `80s that just stopped. Median wages for the most of us just stopped moving. But the top 1% goes WAY up. And everyone else stays flat. If the other 99% kept rising, we wouldn`t be talking about OWS right now." -Cont.
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Male 333
If thats right and not exaggerated then yeah that`s pretty damming of the wealth gap already there and how its getting bigger...
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Male 1,449
1 - You do realize it`s based on data 5 years old
2 - To show a true comparison, it should be AFTER taxes.
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Male 208
Too bad they just scribbled lines on it and did not use real statistics.
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Male 525
What exactly is the protestor`s point? Is it that everyone should have the same income?

Comrade, that`s called communism; as opposed to capitalism where people`s income depends on how much they produce--oh, the humanity!
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Male 542
He`s holding that on a crutch?
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Male 8
Someone needs to Google the terms `Income mobility.`
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Male 5,314
101%?
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Male 570
Link: The Most Damning Protest Sign Yet [Pic] [Rate Link] - This protest was recently seen at a Occupy Wall Street rally. Hard to fight these facts, eh Wall Street fat cats?
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