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Date: 10/12/11 10:45 AM

126 Responses to Sam Harris` Views On Going To Heaven/Hell

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8033 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 9:18 am
    Link: Sam Harris` Views On Going To Heaven/Hell - Harris discusses immoral, psychotic and psychopathic weltanschauung he feels is offered by Christianity & religion
  2. Profile photo of Quackor
    Quackor Male 18-29
    2856 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:10 am
    he is basing his speech based on the supposition he understands why god does or doesnt do things, or how he does his judgement.
    He also doesnt mention the belief of christians that suffering in this life basically grants you eternal bliss in the afterlife, making those millions of kids he talks about, the most fortunate people of this earth
    so he is an stupid atheist, making the rest of atheists look like idiots
  3. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2206 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:12 am
    If you listen closely, you can hear the religious types beginning to foam at the mouth over this...
  4. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2206 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:13 am
    No, Quackor, he is basing his speech on logic and reason.

    You should look into both someday. It`s better than clinging to the mythology written down by Bronze Age goat-herders.
  5. Profile photo of markperr
    markperr Male 50-59
    33 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:14 am
    Sam Harris? Isn`t this the guy who sang "somewhere over the rainbow" like 19 times on Star Search back in the 80`s?
  6. Profile photo of mastrmind
    mastrmind Male 18-29
    102 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:28 am
    @quack

    Pending on which view of christianity you take. Unless you are old enough to accept Jesus are your savior and love god with your heart. You go to hell. End of story.

    He didn`t mention the quandary that hell is.
    An inifinte punishment for a finite transgression is in no way the "moral fiber" of a "god"

    If you could watch that video and see absolutely nothing wrong with current views of religion.. You are the mindless rabble he`s speaking of.

    Is religion wrong - Who really knows.
    Is christianity a religion that needs to realize its roots come from soiled ground - Yes.
    Hence, atheism for me... until Dave the space gnome makes his appearance
  7. Profile photo of Mad_Irish
    Mad_Irish Male 18-29
    67 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:37 am
    Let me preface my response with this: I am an atheist. I watched Craig`s response, and Harris looked like a fool by comparison.

    Sam Harris has done nothing but use tired arguments which thinkers like William Lane Craig have found ways around. Craig argues from a philosophical point of view, in that a secular view of intelligent life does not allow the use of the moral terms "good" and "bad". It`s a bull poo response to be sure, but if they are arguing philosophically, Harris doesn`t have a foundation to build his argument upon. Theologians like Craig are remarkably adept in diverting the argument away from the strengths that Harris was using and towards nit-picky areas of philosophical morality. By contrast, Christopher Hitchens would not forget to cover himself in this respect, and would call out Craig for diverting the argument.

    TL,DNR: GIVE ME HITCHENS ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
  8. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25407 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:42 am
    religion on IAB... never expected that
  9. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:53 am
    How do these people become "experts" on this stuff when they don`t (or wont) even understand the basic message of Christianity. Being:

    All people are equally flawed.
    Treat others as you would be treated.
    Forgive others of ANY wrong they have done you.
    Love your enemy.
    God loves you unconditionally.

    Yes, this type of thinking will result in the most immoral of people... gimme a break.
  10. Profile photo of Lord_Jereth
    Lord_Jereth Male 40-49
    725 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:54 am
    @BoredFrank,

    "Bronze Age goat-herders"

    I want royalties, my friend.

    *chuckles*

    8-) LJ
  11. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:58 am
    QualityJay
    "God loves you unconditionally."

    Did you miss the video, QualityJay? If "God" loved everyone unconditionally, than why would he allow billions of folks to be born in India where they will be raised to follow a different God and therefore be doomed to burn in Hell for all eternity, simply because of where he decided they should be born?

    If there was a "God" he would have to be one evil son of a bitch. Given that fact, how can you say bring up all that "lovey" crap?
  12. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:02 pm
    I don`t understand how people think like this guy... I guess it`s just because I understand true Christianity.

    The communion cracker is obviously a symbolic gesture of accepting Christ and taking him into your heart. Yet, he makes it seem that people actually BELIEVE that they are literally eating the body of Jesus.

    I cannot recall ANYTHING in the New Testament that calls for the extermination of nonbelievers as he implies. All it says about unbelievers is to love them...
  13. Profile photo of Lord_Jereth
    Lord_Jereth Male 40-49
    725 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:04 pm
    @QualityJay,

    Ah, but His love is NOT unconditional, is it? Don`t believe -> eternal torment. Don`t repent your "sins" in time -> eternal torment.

    Your argument will then be, "He may send you to hell but He still loves you." Ah, but is that love? A loving father punishes his child for a transgression. But punishment is finite and serves a purpose. Eternal torment is torture for its own sake. No good can come of it: no rehabilitation, no "learning one`s lesson," no redemption. It serves only one purpose: to sate the sadistic, barbaric and psychotic idea of "justice" of a savage ancient people.

    And this is an "all-loving" God? I think not.

    8-) LJ
  14. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1794 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:05 pm
    excellent points... most of them I had thought of before... and america is the land of the pick and choose religion...
  15. Profile photo of Lord_Jereth
    Lord_Jereth Male 40-49
    725 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    "I don`t understand how people think like this guy... I guess it`s just because I understand true Christianity."

    Said like the true arrogant and narcissistic Christian Sam Harris was talking about. Way to prove his point, my friend. Well done.

    8-) LJ
  16. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm
    patchouly

    I`m saying what we believe.
    I cannot counter that statement in this forum. Best to google it. Have you ever tried to listen to the other side? Check out the christian answer to that question on a website. I cannot answer it. It`s a difficult question, I`ll admit.


  17. Profile photo of DeutschDude9
    DeutschDude9 Male 18-29
    473 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm
    @Fatninja01

    "religion on IAB... never expected that"

    Really? A couple of months ago, IAB was filled with religious stuff.
  18. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:13 pm
    @QualityJay, you sound like someone who has been told what the Bible says, but you haven`t actually read it cover to cover.

    Ask yourself why you are a Christian. For every answer you have, consider that believers of every other religion give the same answers about their faith. Now ask yourself why you are not a follower of those religions. If you are honest with yourself, you will understand why I believe in exactly one less of the religions than you do. You`ll also find that you believe for no other reason that you want to and you allow yourself to be blinded so that you don`t have to confront your beliefs.
  19. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:16 pm
    Lord_Jereth I didn`t mean to come off that way. I don`t have all the answers. I don`t think less of people if they are not christian.

    But, it`s a fact. Most people criticizing Christianity don`t truly understand it. Once you read the new testament, THEN I believe you can understand it. Doesn`t mean you will accept it but you will know that we are not all Westborough Baptist Church fanatics.

    I do believe there are things that are unseen, that science cannot explain.

    Just because I believe these things doesn`t make me stupid, or uneducated.
  20. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:22 pm
    NottaSpy
    I have NOT read the Bible cover to cover. I have read the New Testament (New Covenant: as in replaces the old) cover to cover multiple times.

    Your argument is aimed at getting me to question my faith. I have thought about it, I choose to believe. THAT DOESNT MEAN I HATE OTHER RELIGIONS /ATHEISM. I have gay, and atheist friends believe it or not.

    But if I do the same thing and try to convert a nonbeliever to Christianity, I`m considered a religious fanatic, intolerant (so I don`t due to the hostility). There is a double standard.
  21. Profile photo of jbwhite
    jbwhite Male 18-29
    1292 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:26 pm
    Glad I watched this, was debating just because of the bounds of bullpoo that would come from it, but damn, this is amazing.
  22. Profile photo of NNoamfer
    NNoamfer Male 18-29
    1216 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:27 pm
    @QualityJay, Yet if I don`t believe in Christianity, I will suffer unimaginable pain for ETERNITY. The religion might have a good message, but it doesn`t work on human nature, that will just use this frame to be immoral and feel good with it.
  23. Profile photo of ZsaZsaGoar
    ZsaZsaGoar Female 18-29
    144 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:27 pm
    @QualityJar "Most people criticizing Christianity don`t truly understand it." Harris seems to have a pretty great understanding of it.
  24. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:28 pm
    <<No, Quackor, he is basing his speech on logic and reason. >>>

    Really he starts here.

    I do not understand why God did or did not do something. Therefore he must be evil or impotent.

    An illogical argument.

    I do not understand why you purchased the Big Mac for lunch today, so you must be either fat or stupid. He is trying use his imperfect understanding of the world to make analyze the actions of someone that does have a perfect understanding of nature.
  25. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:43 pm
    In b4 Heureux comes in to troll all over the thread how atheism is just a prejudice and is just as bad as sexism, racism etc.
  26. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:47 pm
    @QualityJay, my point is that you don`t understand your own religion. You claim that the criticisms stem from not understanding "true Christianity". The reality is that the criticisms come from people who understand it far better than you do.

    Your response that you don`t question your faith shows that you have simply accepted what you`ve been told.

    The fact that you can operate in modern society means that your innate moral code has guided you in constructing the same facade of Christianity as other Christians. You have made choices on how to interpret the Bible so that it does not violate your beliefs of right and wrong. How else could you befriend "abominations".

    The book hasn`t changed, but interpretations do. Why do you need a God to write a book, if you are just going to modify it to fit your personal morality?
  27. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:03 pm
    "Why do you need a God to write a book, if you are just going to modify it to fit your personal morality?"

    I read all of what Heureux said in the last thread and wanted to respond with this point to his assertion in relation to morals and atheism, but didn`t.

    This point is very relevant to the subject though. There isn`t a "christian" today who`d be accepted into the fold of christianity 300, 800, so on, years ago. Most wouldn`t even want to be given the opportunity as it promoted a vastly archaic way of thinking in relation to the present christian. The reality, however, is the present day christian, generally, thinks and acts no differently than the present day atheist with the minor exception being a love of fairy tales.
  28. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:03 pm
    NottaSpy I do understand christianity.
    "On these two rules all the law and the prophets are based 1. you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. 2. You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
    Simple - so yes, I can love "abominations."

    Have I questioned my faith? Yes. I have thought about it and CHOSE to believe. I also believe that there are things that cannot be seen, that defy laws of physics, that we as humans do not have the capacity to understand.

    Now, what harm am I doing to ANYONE? I let people make their own choices and do not judge. Why do I as a christian attract so much hostility (esp on the internet)?
  29. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:04 pm
    How did he not burst into flame? He was at Notre Dame FFS lol.
  30. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:13 pm
    In 300 years, christians will still be here, as will this debate. They`ll still hold true to the belief their religion is the correct one, but they will without a doubt change their interpretation of the bible to reflect the climate of their time.

    So in summation, what exactly does one gain from any specific religion one cannot simply achieve through progressive thought facilitated with a desire to believe personal reality does not end with ones death?

    As an athiest, I don`t find any reason behind a belief in god, but as a human, I am curious as to why god should need a gospel and a pulpit before "he" can be considered a legitimate god in a "believers" eyes. I can accept a human who wants to love a god, but those who simultaneously denounce any other god seems a bit preposterous.
  31. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:14 pm
    Atheism is just a prejudice, and a foul one at that, as the posts by davymind and nottaspy and, yes, Sam Harris` remarks, demonstrate quite well.

    After all, homophobes assert that homosexuality is immoral, psychotic and psychopathic.

    Sam Harris is just another Fred Phelps.
  32. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:15 pm
    Why do you attract hostility? Because you choose to see any conversation, no matter how civil, as an attack on your faith. I am expressing a different opinion in a civil manner, as are you. Where is the hostility?

    When I do see hostility, it is when religion imposes itself on other people in a way that is repugnant. A perfect example would be denying the rights of gays. If you see collateral hostility, it may be because you are enabling your religion to be used in those ways.

    Just as religions have their fanatics, so does Atheists. I am quick to denounce fanatic Atheists. If you denounce those that misrepresent your religion, then we don`t have a problem.

    I have no issue with religion when it is used to foster the best parts of humanity. I do have a problem when religion is used to bring out the worst in us. I also have a problem when religion claims truth over subjects that are outside of its spiritual domain.
  33. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:16 pm
    Ahh, Heureux the troll chimed in.
  34. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:16 pm
    Scuzoid

    "There isn`t a "christian" today who`d be accepted into the fold of christianity 300, 800, so on, years ago. Most wouldn`t even want to be given the opportunity as it promoted a vastly archaic way of thinking in relation to the present christian. The reality, however, is the present day christian, generally, thinks and acts no differently than the present day atheist with the minor exception being a love of fairy tales."

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your statement is nonsense, and characterizing religion as fairy tales is intellectually vapid and purposefully offensive, it indicates a distinct lack of morals.

    No wonder many people believe that atheists are atheists solely to have an excuse to be amoral and unethical.
  35. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:17 pm
    The communion cracker is obviously a symbolic gesture of accepting Christ and taking him into your heart. Yet, he makes it seem that people actually BELIEVE that they are literally eating the body of Jesus.

    No. In the rite of transubstantiation the cracker literally becomes the body of Christ and the wine his blood. They merely appear to be the objects they are. It`s not some metaphor, Church doctrine has presented it as a genuine miracle for thousands of years.

    Why is the New Testament the true Christianity? Why not the Antithesis of Marcion, or the gnostic writings of the Nag Hammadi authors? It`s merely a historical accident that the New Testament is the way it is today.

    And are you really comparing the occasional hostility you get as a christian to the hostility atheists get all the time? (Especially since a recent study found atheists to be the most distrusted group in America)
  36. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    >>The book hasn`t changed, but interpretations do.<<<

    Sure as God continues to work in the lives of people to mold and shape our beliefs and behaviors. The majesty of the Bible is that it is still just as relevant today as when it was written even though our understanding has increased.
  37. Profile photo of Lord_Jereth
    Lord_Jereth Male 40-49
    725 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:19 pm
    "(New Covenant: as in replaces the old)"

    Typical cherry picking nonsense used to justify interpretation and ignore and do away with old testament dogma.

    Matthew 5:17
    "“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

    That`s your supposed savior talking, bub. You just contradicted him. You are not a "true Christian," either.

    See you in "hell," QualityJay.

    8-) LJ
  38. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:20 pm
    Nottaspy

    The moment you dismiss me as a troll, you fail. You declare to everyone that you cannot refute any of the material I have presented, and can only hope that by dismissing me out of hand, your peers will congratulate you and feed your ego.

    Atheism is just another means for people to feed their ego`s by denigrating other people. Atheism is like homophobia and racism and sexism. And while homophobes malign and vilify 10% of humanity, atheists malign and vilify 99% of humanity in their quest to assure themselves that they are superior.

    But the professional atheists like Harris will almost certainly follow in the footsteps of professional homophobes, and be caught doing the very thing they rail against.
  39. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:22 pm
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
    But please, keep your extraordinary evidence to under 1,000 characters.

    It is funny seeing the troll use that phrase though.
  40. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:23 pm
    @Heureux: Since you know nothing about your religion I suggest you look at Philip Harland`s website. Here. Pay particular attention to the podcasts on diversity on early Christianity and Christian heresies. God forbid you might learn a thing or two.
  41. Profile photo of IrishJesus
    IrishJesus Male 18-29
    483 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:27 pm
    Heur:
    You ARE a troll. Your argument is both heavily flawed, and happens to be the only one you have. I have seen your same old hate-mongering speech many many times on our forums. We can`t win because you lack the ability to process a point or actually ARGUE with what we`re saying instead of saying "SEE? Look how immoral you are". If basic logic escapes you, then you are not a troll. You are just a lost cause.
  42. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:28 pm
    The moment you dismiss me as a troll, you fail. You declare to everyone that you cannot refute any of the material I have presented, and can only hope that by dismissing me out of hand, your peers will congratulate you and feed your ego.
    No, I am dismissing you because your arguments have long ago been debunked. Your motives are clear and it is becoming clearer with every post.

    BTW, you have not refuted that you are a troll. By your own logic, you must not be able to.
  43. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:30 pm
    "my point is that you don`t understand your own religion. "

    Homophobes make a similar claim, asserting that they know the truth about the lives and feelings of GLBTQ people better than GLBTQ people do.

    It`s the ego thing. For both kinds of bigots, atheism and homophobia gives them a false sense of superiority, of just knowing that they are intrinsically superior, and therefore, no matter how little they actually do know about any subject, what they know is "the truth" and everyone else, no matter what, is wrong.

    Consistently, atheists express their belief with the same tactics and arguments that every other kind of bigot uses.
  44. Profile photo of LoveToSpooge
    LoveToSpooge Male 18-29
    11 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:32 pm
    As long as religion exists, mankind will NEVER co-exist in a peaceful, productive manner. You can disagree all you want, but this is an unavoidable truth.
  45. Profile photo of AngryAsian
    AngryAsian Male 13-17
    122 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:32 pm
    i once asked the exact same questions and got these answers

    God does not interfere directly with our issues, a giant figure will NOT come down and solve all of our problems, rather, he wants neighbors to help neighbors, and WE see children suffer, and we hear the statistics, and we have the money, we have the time, so is it really God that should be helping these people? or us? A very good quote in the movie Hotel Rwanda says, "I think people are going to watch these people suffer and just say `thats terrible` and go back to eating their dinners". It is taught that God wants us to love one another, but we refuse to do it.

    If you are born into a different religion, and die in that different religion, i was told that God shows mercy on them and will not condemn them through bad luck alone.
  46. Profile photo of duffytoler
    duffytoler Male 40-49
    5196 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:33 pm
    Who didn`t figure this out by the time they were a teenager?
    Sam Harris, Slow Loris, Captain Obvious.
  47. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:35 pm
    Heureux
  48. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:36 pm
    ", I am dismissing you because your arguments have long ago been debunked. "

    Nice lie there. If my arguments had been debunked, the ad hominem would not be necessary.

    No, ad hominem is what people use when they cannot debunk an argument. The anger and malice in your posts, and your peers, comes from the fact that your atheism is about your ego, and when I point that out, and criticize it, I deprive you of your sole means of feeling special and superior.

    You lash out because you perceive criticism of your belief as an attack on your ego, because that is the sole purpose of your belief - to feed your ego at the expense of others.

    xiquiripat - your derogatory and false assumption about me simply indicates your character, not mine. Perhaps, if you were not an atheist, you would behave more ethically.
  49. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:38 pm
    "As long as religion exists, mankind will NEVER co-exist in a peaceful, productive manner. You can disagree all you want, but this is an unavoidable truth."

    Homophobes and other bigots make similar statements, as equally false.


    patchgrabber - not even close. Is your willingness to assume and the promote false claims about people an example of the morality of atheism, or an aberration?
  50. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:38 pm
    Lord_Jereth : A great example of how people do not understand christianity. I`ll educate you, Jesus came to fulfill the old law which is to never sin even once. Obey all commands.

    He fulfilled it. In this he created a way to be saved by FAITH, because to be saved by works is impossible since all mankind is equally flawed.

    Therefore, the NEW covenant is a covenant of FAITH and not of works(obeying the old law).

    (not that you care)
    Also, you don`t have to be such a dick about it.
  51. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:39 pm
    "It`s the ego thing. For both kinds of bigots, atheism and homophobia gives them a false sense of superiority, of just knowing that they are intrinsically superior, and therefore, no matter how little they actually do know about any subject, what they know is "the truth" and everyone else, no matter what, is wrong."

    Substitute "Christian" for "Homophobe", "Christianity" for "homophobia".
  52. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    "As long as religion exists, mankind will NEVER co-exist in a peaceful, productive manner. You can disagree all you want, but this is an unavoidable truth."
    FIXED: As long as mankind exists, mankind will NEVER co-exist in a peaceful, productive manner. You can disagree all you want, but this is an unavoidable truth.
  53. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    Take any standard argument used by atheists, dissect it, and you`ll find the same basic argument used by other bigots.

    And like homophobes, and racists, and misogynists, atheists protest and scream and spit up insults when ever they are challenged, as if that sort of abusive behavior will somehow prove that their belief is right.
  54. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:43 pm
    "And like homophobes, and racists, and misogynists, atheists protest and scream and spit up insults when ever they are challenged, as if that sort of abusive behavior will somehow prove that their belief is right."

    Substitute "Christians" for "homophobes"
  55. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:43 pm
    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

    So, you`ll be presenting that extraordinary evidence for that god you believe in sometime soon, hm?
  56. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    "Substitute "Christian" for "Homophobe", "Christianity" for "homophobia"."

    That would be dishonest. I know, atheism does not condemn, rebuke or criticize dishonesty. Or rape. Or murder.

    The only thing atheism criticizes, is the majority of all moral/ethical systems that DO condemn, criticize, rebuke rape, dishonesty, murder, etc. The only message of atheism is that all of the religions, which do teach morality and ethics, are wrong.

    Too bad that it also rapes science in the process.
  57. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:47 pm
    How is it dishonest when Christianity is inherently homophobic?
  58. Profile photo of AngryAsian
    AngryAsian Male 13-17
    122 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:47 pm
    a typical serial killer/rapist will never come to God at the last minute, and if he were to, it would have to be genuine, if he fully accepts the Lord, then everyone should be okay with it, because if hes sorry, hes sorry, so just fcking forgive the guy

    if you look at a deeper analysis of slavery in the bible, you understand that God did not hate or discriminate slaves, thats too long so i wont post it here.

    when God asks one side to kill another side, he isnt killing because its "good" or "fun", he does not kill without reason, if they die, they deserved it.

    suicide bombers cannot represent religion, they just use it as an excuse to justify their actions

    the bread will not turn into Jesus, it represents Jesus and shows respect

    you think God enjoyed sacrificing his own son? if your a father, you would well know that you would rather sacrifice yourself than your son. It wasnt easy for God, he cant just sacrifice himself,
  59. Profile photo of coffeekoneko
    coffeekoneko Female 18-29
    1008 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:48 pm


    Heureux is a broken record. Every time there`s an atheist/religion debate he spews his hatred for atheists all over the thread until, sweating and spent, he crawls back under his bridge.

    You`d best just ignore him.
  60. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:48 pm
    Lillian

    Will you be providing evidence for your existence?

    Remember, atheism has no evidence at all, not even the experiential evidence of its believers.

    The fact that atheists dismiss the testimony of people of faith about their experiences of the Divine is evidence that atheism is fundamentally amoral and unethical, antisocial and egotistical in nature.

    At its heart, atheism is anti-social and degrading.
  61. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:49 pm
    "suicide bombers cannot represent religion, they just use it as an excuse to justify their actions"

    Substitue "Crusaders" for "suicide bombers"...difference?
  62. Profile photo of AngryAsian
    AngryAsian Male 13-17
    122 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:50 pm
    and btw im not trying to convert people or anything, but seriously this is suppossed to be a fun site, dont ruin it with these stupid debates, if your gonna do something about religion, just give information, and let the audience decide on their own, and i love how you didnt even post the rebuttal

    STOP POSTING THESE STUPID VIDEOS BECAUSE THEN I HAVE TO MAKE REALLY LONG COMMENTS TO SHUT EVERYONE UP
  63. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:51 pm
    Coffee

    Your ad hominem is a example of prejudice. It springs out of ego, rather than rational thought, education, or critical thinking skills.

    By the way, that is precisely how homophobes respond when they are told that they ugly, false assertions about GLBTQ people are wrong.

    The worst way to prove that atheism is not a prejudice, is to sound like a homophobe or racist.
  64. Profile photo of Amurika
    Amurika Male 30-39
    282 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:51 pm
    Blind faith is a flawed logic, be sure. The preacher man makes 70K or more a year in a glorified office building. To each their own though.
  65. Profile photo of buz
    buz Male 18-29
    139 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    The server looks at this post and comes up with ads for "ChristianMingle.com"... somebody is trolling the trolls.


  66. Profile photo of AngryAsian
    AngryAsian Male 13-17
    122 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    @patchgrabber, i think you need to retake history again, the crusades used God as an excuse to literally just fight everyone, and notive how they lost ALL of their battles except 1
  67. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    Heureux: Again, how is it dishonest when they are taught to be homophobes?
  68. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    "The only message of atheism is that all of the religions, which do teach morality and ethics, are wrong."

    Someone seems to not understand what atheism is. Atheism is a lack of believe in any god. Why do atheists not condemn anything? Because atheism is a common characteristic, like having brown hair or being tall. Do you expect there to be a moral code that all brown haired people must follow? No. It`s not a necessity because humans are able to judge these things on their own, or at least, they have the threat of actual punishment (such as going to jail) to keep them from committing crimes. An old book isn`t necessary. Christian`s don`t even follow every single little thing in their holy book, anyway.

    As for atheists thinking religions are wrong.. the only thing it implies is that the individual thinks that the concepts of *god* is wrong. For example, I`m an atheist but I`m also a Buddhist. Most atheists aren`t Buddhists and some Buddhists are theists.
  69. Profile photo of AngryAsian
    AngryAsian Male 13-17
    122 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    @Amurika, are you a priest? because i dont think you know that being a priest is a modest job, they do NOT get paid 70k a year, it is MUCH less than that, you never become a priest to make money, you do it because you believe in whatever religion you are preaching
  70. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    Angryasian: Ok, so crusades commissioned by pope, pope = God`s voice on earth, so God backs mostly losing battles? That`s just not true, take a look at any professional sports game, he`s always on the winning side.
  71. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    AngryAsian

    IAB mods allow the anti-religious stuff because it generates traffic. A significant portion of the material here is presented only as an opportunity for ego-gratification: "laugh at the hipsters", "laugh at the fat women", "laugh at the gay people".

    Occasionally, there is something genuinely funny that is not mean-spirited, but those are the exceptions.
  72. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:59 pm
    Having selective response disorder Heureux? I asked you a question twice...
  73. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:59 pm
    Heureux,

    The fact that I`m typing this to you is proof enough. If I didn`t exist, the keys on my keyboard would not be moving ;) You`re the one saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and yet you are unwilling to provide extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim of your god.

    You reject the "evidence" of all religions that don`t believe the same as you do. Why don`t you worship their god too? How is the people providing "evidence" for your religion more valid than for other religions? That`s quite egotistical, don`t you think?
  74. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:01 pm
    Also, atheists do NOT have to prove the non-existence of a god considering they aren`t the ones making the claim in the first place. Do you expect people to disprove the existence of unicorns or UFOs? The only thing that can be done is when "proof" shows up, the person who doesn`t believe it can show how that proof is wrong or invalid.
  75. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:04 pm
    Lillian

    "Someone seems to not understand what atheism is. Atheism is a lack of believe in any god."

    Sorry, but having a deeper understanding of something does not mean I don`t understand. You are using a superficial and simplistic understanding, one that avoids or ignores the impact and effect of atheism on everyone else.

    "Because atheism is a common characteristic, like having brown hair or being tall."

    No, atheism is not common, and it is not innate. It is mutable, chosen, and excused and justified without a shred of evidence to back it up.

    "It`s not a necessity because humans are able to judge these things on their own,"

    This is the egotism at the heart of atheism, by the way. How well humans, including atheists, have done, judging these things on their own. Atheist cultures have been just as abusive, just as oppressive, as any other, and some, like communist East Germany, were particularly depra
  76. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:05 pm
    I`ll take your unwillingness to answer my question as admission that you are wrong Heureux and I accept your apology.
  77. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:07 pm
    "Also, atheists do NOT have to prove the non-existence of a god considering they aren`t the ones making the claim in the first place."

    How convenient. However, if you cannot prove the non-existence of God, you cannot demand proof of the existence of God either.

    To people of faith, atheists are the ones making a claim, one that contradicts our direct experiences. But atheists tend to only see this, and everything else, in terms of themselves, "prove to me" me, me me.

    Atheism has no evidence for its claims, and rejects the experiential evidence of people of faith. It is neither rational or reasonable, it is simply an ugly prejudice based on ego.
  78. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:08 pm
    "No, atheism is not common, and it is not innate. It is mutable, chosen, and excused and justified without a shred of evidence to back it up."

    Substitute "religion" for "atheism"...difference?
  79. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:11 pm
    "I`ll take your unwillingness to answer my question as admission that you are wrong Heureux and I accept your apology."

    Whatever lie makes your ego happy, I suppose.

    "How is it dishonest when Christianity is inherently homophobic?"

    It is not. Christianity is not inherently homophobic, anti-gay theology is derived from a handful of verses out of several thousand, contradicts the core teachings of both the OT and NT, and specifically, the teachings of Christ.

    One of the truly terrible things about fundamentalist atheism is that it so often promotes the heresy of anti-gay theology, endangering the lives of GLBTQ people and promoting that prejudice, in order to have something to criticize religion about.

    That`s pretty evil, to proclaim a belief you do not believe and endanger other people, just to excuse your prejudice against people of faith.
  80. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:12 pm
    "rejects the experiential evidence of people of faith"

    By definition, no matter how much faith your friend has, or your parent has or your spouse has, that is only their belief, and believing in something false doesn`t make it true.
  81. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:12 pm
    Heureux still hasn`t refuted that he is a troll.
  82. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:13 pm
    "Christianity is not inherently homophobic"

    I guess the whole of Christianity forgot that memo.
  83. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:16 pm
    patchgrabber

    Your substitutions are neither accurate, nor convincing. They suggest that you have nothing substantive to contribute, and only post for attention.

    Lillian

    "The fact that I`m typing this to you is proof enough. If I didn`t exist, the keys on my keyboard would not be moving ;) "

    Ever here of chat bots? Ever have someone admit to you that they posted something in a chat or discussion online that wasn`t true?

    In this context, you cannot prove anything about yourself - not one thing. Does that mean you do not exist?

    Other contexts impose similar limitations. Think about that.

    Meanwhile, there is no evidence, not even experiential evidence to support atheism claim that God does not exist. It is just a guess based on rejecting evidence out of hand.

  84. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:17 pm
    No, ad hominem is what people use when they cannot debunk an argument.

    You mean like this one:The moment you dismiss me as a troll, you fail.

    You`re a troll. See, I didn`t fail. Your ad hominem bullpoo argument is debunked.

    However, if you cannot prove the non-existence of God, you cannot demand proof of the existence of God either.

    Show me proof of the existence of God or I won`t believe you. BOOM, debunked again.

    This is too easy.
  85. Profile photo of Commentator
    Commentator Male 40-49
    270 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:20 pm
    AWESOME!
  86. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:21 pm
    patchgrabber

    "I guess the whole of Christianity forgot that memo."

    No, just the homophobes who use Christianity to justify their bigotry. The whole of Christianity is not homophobic. Even at the most cautious estimate, Christians in the U.S. are split 50/50 on the issue.

    Atheists are split as well, there is no shortage of homophobic atheists who rape science to create excuses for their homophobia.

    But your trite and simplistic answer was simply a way of avoiding the facts: Christ did not teach anything condemning homosexuality, and things He did teach, condemn all prejudices, including anti-gay theology.

    One of the key mistakes of most atheists online is that they base everything they think they know about religion, on religious fundamentalists.

    That`s how bigotry works - see only the bad of some, then apply it to everyone in the group no matter what.
  87. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:28 pm
    Brassbull

    Did that make you feel better? It didn`t make any sense, it wasn`t even clever, so I hope it at least made you feel good.

    The statement you claim is ad hominem, is not.

    "Show me proof of the existence of God or I won`t believe you. BOOM, debunked again. "

    Show me proof that God does not exist. Prove you are really an atheist. Prove that anything you`ve ever claimed about yourself is true. You cannot prove anything here, Bull. Any photo can be shopped, any text could be a lie, any audio file can be faked.

    Neither you, nor your peers, can prove anything, yet you demand proof.

    What none of you seem to realize is that you cannot meet the standard your demand. You cannot prove that anything you testify about your own lives and experiences and feelings, is true. You cannot even prove that you actually believe what you post. Yet you post as if people should believe you, while you refuse to believe most of humani
  88. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:33 pm
    "Blind faith is a flawed logic, be sure. The preacher man makes 70K or more a year in a glorified office building. To each their own though."

    Atheism is blind faith - there is no evidence to support it`s claim.

    How much do professional atheists like Harris and Dawkins make per year?
  89. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:40 pm
    "Sorry, but having a deeper understanding of something does not mean I don`t understand."

    "Deeper understanding" doesn`t mean "applying my own feelings about a group of people onto a group of people" which is what you`re doing. Atheism, to ATHEISTS, is the lack of belief in a god. You claim a further belief that not all atheists do believe, and you act as if everyone believes such a thing. The ONLY common characteristic between all atheists is the lack of belief in a god. There may be other frequent additions but they are in no way a defining characteristic of *all* atheists.
  90. Profile photo of Klamz
    Klamz Male 18-29
    689 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:42 pm
    I believe!

    Your pathetic!
  91. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:42 pm
    Atheism is blind faith - there is no evidence to support it`s claim.
    LOL. DUH! You can`t prove a negative. Trolls aren`t supposed to make you laugh, but this one does.
  92. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:45 pm
    "No, atheism is not common, and it is not innate. It is mutable, chosen, and excused and justified without a shred of evidence to back it up. "

    First of all, you kind of twisted around my words. But I`ll untwist them for you! I said atheism is a common characteristic. Meaning, atheism is a characteristic that some people have in common. Just like having brown hair is a common characteristic. Just like being a theist is a common characteristic. It`s an aspect of a person that they share with other people, thus a common characteristic between those people who share such a characteristic.

    Also, atheism is innate. All newborns are born atheists, because belief in a god is not innate. Newborns can recognize their parents voices, but they are born without the ability to speak a specific language. They also don`t know about religion at the time of birth. It has to be taught, it`s not something that can be learned if a child is left without any human interaction.
  93. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:45 pm
    Show me proof that God does not exist. .

    Why? I never made the claim that God doesn`t exist. What I said is I don`t believe your claim that God DOES exist because you have no proof. Now, since you are the one making a claim and I am not, provide some evidence.


  94. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:48 pm
    Brassbull, that was prefect.
  95. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    "How convenient. However, if you cannot prove the non-existence of God, you cannot demand proof of the existence of God either."
    That`s simply not true. I can`t prove the non-existence of unicorns, it`s simply NOT POSSIBLE. That doesn`t mean, if someone says "OMG unicorns exists I saw one!!1" I can`t demand proof. I am not the one making the claim, I am simply taking the default position because the claim has not been proven. Take the scientific method for example. Would you trust a scientist who said they have the cure for cancer and take their new substance without question? You`d want to see studies to prove it`s true because the scientist is making the claim. You don`t have to prove that it`s *not true*, you just have to look at their proof and see if it`s valid and trustworthy. If it`s not, then they need to do further testing to prove to you that it`s true. It`s not up to you to disprove it, it relies solely on them to make a proper case for their new prod
  96. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:57 pm
    "Ever here of chat bots? Ever have someone admit to you that they posted something in a chat or discussion online that wasn`t true?"
    The only way for me to prove to you with 100% certainty to you is to show up at your door, and both you and I don`t want that. We are fortunate enough to live in a time where we are able to communicate with people who are very far away from us. However, it is possible for people to see me, to know me, to talk to me, to touch my arm, etc. No one in real life is questioning my existence because I`m clearly visible for anyone who is close enough to me to see. The only problem is location, since this is a large planet!

    "Meanwhile, there is no evidence, not even experiential evidence to support atheism claim that God does not exist. It is just a guess based on rejecting evidence out of hand."
    Poor "evidence" is rejected, as it should be. Until you can provide that "extraordinary evidence" there is NO rea
  97. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:58 pm
    NO reason for anyone to believe you.*
  98. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:59 pm
    Thanks Nottaspy. Hopefully Heureux now understands what atheism is, but I`m not gonna hold my breathe.
  99. Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3278 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 3:03 pm
    "God created the cultural isolation of the Hindus."

    Um, this guy does not know how to make a good argument. He and I are approximately on the same team but, things just fall out of his mouth that stink. And did he really try to use the Epicurus argument? How amateurish.


  100. Profile photo of BigM
    BigM Male 18-29
    130 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 3:44 pm
    @LillianDulci
    You talk as if someone was actually interested in what you have to say.
  101. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 3:56 pm
    I`m interested in what LillianDulci has to say. It is you, BigM, that I could do without.
  102. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 4:02 pm
    Thanks NottaSpy ^^
    But, I type whatever I want because I feel like it. If someone doesn`t want to read it, I couldn`t give a poo :D If you don`t want to read it, that`s not my problem :P
  103. Profile photo of TheOrigin
    TheOrigin Male 18-29
    500 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 4:13 pm
    Seconded that notion, I`m interested in what she has to say. Try again?
  104. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 4:31 pm
    It is not. Christianity is not inherently homophobic, anti-gay theology is derived from a handful of verses out of several thousand, contradicts the core teachings of both the OT and NT, and specifically, the teachings of Christ.

    Mark this date on a calendar! Heureux has written something that I agree with and which isn`t just a projection of his own irrational prejudices onto other people.

    I can go one further and cast doubt on that handful of verses, too. There`s a fairly compelling dismissal of them based on the fact that they suffer from a combination of uncertain interpretations, dubious translations and outright lies. It is theologically sound for a Christian to reject the traditional position on those verses.
  105. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 4:33 pm
    @LillianDulci
    You talk as if someone was actually interested in what you have to say.

    And quite a few people are interested in what she has to say.

    What do you have to say?

    No, don`t bother. I`m not interested.
  106. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 5:35 pm
    Well he just sucked the sanity out of religion. Did it in Utah too. The man has balls of steel.
  107. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm
    Well, since the official position of the church is anti-gay, it is not theologically sound for any christian to believe otherwise. The pope is anti-gay, which means that God is anti-gay, which supports those "few verses" that you choose to interpret differently than the majority of your faith. Priests, bishops, cardinals, etc. are the ones who interpret the Bible, not you. They have devoted their lives to study whereas you took some religious studies course at a community college most likely. You are required to follow their interpretation of the Bible, not your own. If they get their cue from God then who are you to disregard your own deity`s rules?
  108. Profile photo of lyonartime
    lyonartime Male 18-29
    260 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 8:12 pm
    Is Heureux gone? I feel as if I`ve missed my train.
  109. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 8:31 pm
    Is Heureux gone? I feel as if I`ve missed my train.
    Classic Troll behaviour, I`m afraid. They`re basically like seagulls. They fly in, sh*t all over the place, then fly off again. Based on past experience, I doubt he`ll be back. Heck, I`m desperate to give him an official warning, but I know he won`t read it. He`ll wait till the next thread on religion/atheism, shat all over that one too, and then fly back to his nest.
  110. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 8:31 pm
    If anyone weighed in on every single thread pertaining to the subject, and espoused the same bile-filled crap, they`d be banned as a troll.

    Heureux`s thing is that all atheists are prejudiced bigots, no better than racists, sexists, homophobes etc. If there was a non-religious user who claimed all Christians, Muslims, religious people, whatever, were nothing more than disgusting prejudiced bigots akin to racists, sexists etc *EVERY SINGLE TIME THE SUBJECT COMES UP*, they`d be under a ban warning too, on grounds of trolling.

    Heureux, if you read this, please heed the warning.
  111. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 9:32 pm
    Patchgrabber with all due respect, those strictures are only applicable to Catholics, not the myriad of other xian denominations, some of which are actually quite pro gay. There is no one and only xian church. And even then Catholics have a bunch of theological ways for dealing with their obstinate hierarchy, stuff like the Sensus Fidelium and the emphasis on a living faith over a dead end traditionalism.

    I was one of those Religious Studies nerds. ;-)
  112. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:09 pm
    Yeah Patchgrabber. Who is this Pope you speak of?
  113. Profile photo of Discobiscuit
    Discobiscuit Male 18-29
    542 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:24 pm
    Brings to light a ton of points, makes the faithful reevaluate themselves. I`m not a part of organized religion, but I don`t think spirituality should be presented in such black and white terms..
    My spirituality comes from the energy of this earth and the collective consciousness around me.

    Also, @ 5:50. He just might have ripped that from Seth McFarlane and Adam Corolla`s banter on atheism. Check it out
  114. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3318 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 12:28 am
    Personally I`m agnostic. I just find it funny that both the super religious and the super anti-religious both see themselves as having the cornerstone on all knowledge. Ptolemy proved every thing with math and science but he was still wrong. Just as David Koresh proved everything with scripture and he was wrong.
  115. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 12:40 am
    Atheism isn`t a religion, it`s the default. We are all born atheists. Religion is belief acquired through indoctrination.

    I don`t hold all religious people in contempt, because I believe that by and large it is a harmless affection. Nevertheless, I find it quizzical that in this day and age, people should continue to believe in such obvious fairy tales. Furthermore, I deplore all the the harm done in the name of religion. Atheism has neither intrinsic morals not guidance and the `good` and `bad` done by atheists are purely the result of human nature and the prevailing cultural moral compass. This is inherently a more tolerant and more centrist way of life, as extremism is only logical in light of extreme philosophies.

  116. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 12:46 am
    I am always wary of infinity. Infinity is the ultimate trump card. "You will go to hell (infinite suffering) for ever (multiplied by infinity)." is such a statement. Infinity is the cornerstone of extremism.

    That is why many atheists have traces of agnosticism. Belief in the absence of gods is not necessarily absolute, but the chance that we are wrong is vanishingly small. Say the same as the earth abruptly changing direction or gravity reversing.

    FWIW, I am suspicious of singularities too (dividing by zero is another flavour of infinity), and suspect the `big bang` will prove to be something other than a pure singularity.

    If my lack of absolutes delights the religious, remember that it is the cornerstone of rational science.
  117. Profile photo of _Verbatim_
    _Verbatim_ Male 18-29
    161 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 12:48 am
    No homo... but I love this man... an intellectual power house... I LOVE it!
  118. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 12:55 am
    <blush>
  119. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 5:35 am
    Queenzira: Since there are somewhere around 38,000 reported denominations of christianity (which I believe concisely demonstrates the hypocracy of the religion) I cannot speak for all of them, obviously, so I chose catholicism, which is the major christian denomination and the prevailing doctrine regarding christianity in the world follows their lead. Since they are the majority of christians, their ideologies are considered more relevant than that of some minor splinter group. And Auburn your comment is rhetorical nonsense, it`s the only pope that`s around right now.
  120. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 5:41 am
    And while I find the notion of sensus fidelium interesting, I don`t see how it can override scripture. I trust law makers to make the law, and I can`t just have my own interpretation of it and follow that without going against the established rules of the authority. I can argue my interpretations to them, but it is ultimately their decision whether my interpretation is valid or not. I think Matthew 16:19 clearly demonstrates that the official position of the church is the official position of God and heaven.
  121. Profile photo of gbrzeatetee
    gbrzeatetee Male 30-39
    174 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 5:44 am
    Was that video edited to make him say "okay" 71 times?
  122. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 8:33 am
    My spirituality comes from the energy of this earth and the collective consciousness around me.

    Very nicely put.
  123. Profile photo of Aragnarok
    Aragnarok Male 30-39
    51 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 12:55 pm
    The only thing these debates highlight is the similarities between atheists and traditional religionists, which is arguments based upon ignorance, denial and hypocrisy. Everyone wants the definitive back of the book answers due to our inherent sense of entitlement, yet hardly anyone ever qualifies for them.
  124. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    Whilst I admire Heureux`s unrelenting chastising of "homo-averse" christians like CrakrJak, I find his equally unrelenting, and unfounded, condemnation of all atheists saddening.
  125. Profile photo of Fleaman1797
    Fleaman1797 Male 18-29
    718 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 9:50 pm
    @davymid so are you saying if your a Racist or a Sexist your somehow the scum of the earth? EVERYONE is racist. i dont care if you think you are or not you are. you may have not yet come to grips with it but you are. if not just a TINY TINY BIT. and even if you claim you are not, you still MUST claim you was in at least one PART or TIME of your life. i could care less that somebody was banned today for standing up for their beliefs (even though the mods on I-A-B do it constantly by posting anti-Christian bullpoo CONSTANTLY) every time i come to this site and something is new you are GUARANTEED to see some Pro Atheist Statements, Jokes, Comics, ect ect ect. yet the one guy who turns it around saying (no the Atheists are the biggots) gets banned? if you ask me I-A-B Trolls CHRISTIANS EVERY SINGLE DAY! dont get me wrong i dont really give a crap about Christians since im not one, but Fair is Fair is it not?
  126. Profile photo of xCYBERDYNEx
    xCYBERDYNEx Male 18-29
    4903 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 11:07 pm
    Sh*t! Heureux went hardcore on the stupidity today.

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