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Date: 10/11/11 02:15 PM

138 Responses to Five Ways American Christians Ignore Jesus

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 2:14 pm
    Link: Five Ways American Christians Ignore Jesus - America`s best christian, Mrs. Betty Bowers, presents Christians` top 5 favorite ways to ignore Jesus.
  2. Profile photo of kineo
    kineo Male 30-39
    68 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 2:32 pm
    lol, that was amusing.
  3. Profile photo of AEimiller
    AEimiller Male 18-29
    27 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 2:42 pm
    And we blame Christians for forcing their oppinions onto others... This is ridiculous...
  4. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 2:50 pm
    As for marriage and divorce, Atheists are much less likely to get married in the first place, so it`s no surprise that they get divorced less often.

    It`s like saying someone living in Manhattan is less likely to get in a car accident, well no duh, people that live in the city take taxis, use the subway, take buses, very few even own cars.
  5. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 2:53 pm
    Matthew 6:5-6 Means don`t pray just to be seen praying, don`t make a spectacle of yourself.

    Luke 14:33 Was talking about the cost of being a `Disciple`, not a believer.

    Matthew 7 Says to clean up your own act for criticizing someone else.

    Mark 10:17-25 Refers to a Rich young man that wanted to be a Disciple, refer to Luke 14:33 above, and couldn`t give up his wealth to do so.

    Mark 10:6-9 Jesus replied. "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female." "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." "So they are no longer two, but one flesh." "Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate."

    Please note the "Male & Female" part, he did not say "Male & Male" or "Female & Female".
  6. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 2:55 pm
    meh...
  7. Profile photo of FoSchizle
    FoSchizle Male 18-29
    330 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 2:59 pm
    Stupid.
  8. Profile photo of Silverstone
    Silverstone Male 18-29
    17 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 3:11 pm
    CrakrJak: What is your source for saying that atheists are less likely to marry?
  9. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6952 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 3:19 pm
    CrakrJak,
    No, the whole `give up your material possesions` thing was pretty clear. You can try to weasel out of it, but if you have any material stuff, you`re making Jesus sad.

  10. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 3:28 pm
    LordJim: It was clear that the person he spoke to was a rich person that wanted to be a disciple. There is a difference between a regular believer and a disciple and there is a much higher cost to those wanting to be a disciple.
  11. Profile photo of LoveToSpooge
    LoveToSpooge Male 18-29
    11 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 3:35 pm
    Bible = TL;DR
  12. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 3:42 pm
    Silverstone: Atheists are the most likely group to `cohabit` before, or even if, they get married 51%.
    45% of cohabitations break up with no marriage at all.

    A study of 3,300 cases based on the National Survey of Families and Households, (NSFH) found that in marriage, prior cohabiters “are estimated to have a hazard of dissolution that is about 46% higher than for noncohabitors.

    So if you look at overall dissolution of relationships, atheists have a much higher combined rate, of break-ups and divorces, than theists.
  13. Profile photo of Lolboy
    Lolboy Male 70 & Over
    798 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 3:42 pm
    There is a difference between a regular believer and a disciple and there is a much higher cost to those wanting to be a disciple.

    I think Jesus would disagree. He would not differentiate between someone who wants to follow him, and someone who just wants to go through the motions and still be considered a "Christian".
  14. Profile photo of Lolboy
    Lolboy Male 70 & Over
    798 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 3:47 pm
    So if you look at overall dissolution of relationships, atheists have a much higher combined rate, of break-ups and divorces, than theists.

    Well if you count couples who never even got married, then that`s true. But why even do that? Sure, the bible condemns cohabitation, but the breaking of the marital bonds is what matters here, since they swore them before God.
  15. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 3:54 pm
    Lolboy: Jesus only had 12 disciples, he had thousands of followers, there is a difference.
  16. Profile photo of yoda141
    yoda141 Male 18-29
    266 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:05 pm
    I love it how christians can weasel out of some commands taking advantage of the ambiguities in the bible. Ambiguity is either intentional, which makes god an ass, or unintentional, which makes god incompetent
  17. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:20 pm
    Theres about a million other things that you shouldnt do according to the bible, and that ppl still do anyway.
    Thats part of the success of christianity really.
    Pick and choose religion.

    Other religions are sooo annoying. They have some rules and stuff, and you have to follow them. Booooring! Some even require you to make an effort, or change your way of life!
    Christianity on the other hand, well, its just so much easier. Theres the bible, with rules in it. First, you avoid ever reading the bible. Then, out of what you heard was said about whats in the bible, you select the stuff you like, and believe in that. And the rest, you discard.
    Christianity`s pick and choose concept is really what makes it so popular. Compare it to other stuff, for example islam. If the coran says not to drink alcohol, or to divorce, ppl just generally dont do it. And they know if they do it, they will end up in hell. And/or stoned to death/in prison. They take it super seriously. <
  18. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1793 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    America: home of the pick and choose religion....
  19. Profile photo of Justahuman
    Justahuman Male 18-29
    109 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    Oh hai propaganda!! how are you today?
  20. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:29 pm
    lol@ crackr. One can be almost guaranteed to see more of your incoherent ramblings on a post like this. I, for one, expected it.
  21. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36668 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    CrakrJak "if you look at overall dissolution of relationships, atheists have a much higher combined rate"
    Are you sure you aren`t a politician? `Cause that`s some mighty fine side-stepping you do there!

    We are not talking about all relationships. Dating, first dates, commited-dating couples. We`re talking about D-I-V-O-R-C-E. The disalusion of marital bonds.

    I don`t have a problem with people divorcing or commiting adultry. I have a problem with hypocrit leaders like Jesse Jackson or Newt Gingrich doing it and looking their stubby noses down at me for being in a monogomas, committed male/male marriage.
  22. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:40 pm
    People are having so much fun with a parody.

    But atheism is still prejudice. It does not condemn murder, rape, incest, bestiality, racism, sexism, stealing, lying, or any other evil.

    It is a ego-masturbatory excuse for some people to claim that they are superior to every other human being who ever existed.
  23. Profile photo of grindinblade
    grindinblade Male 18-29
    234 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:52 pm
    CrakrJak Your are making several assumptions in your statements, which make it incorrect.
    1) You don`t understand statistics. If an atheist is less likely to get divorced that is a percent of marriages that end in divorce. That number would most likely be the same regardless of the number of people that get married.
    2) You assume that the rate of breakups among cohabitants is the same among atheists and Christians, it may not be. You can`t combine rates from two different studies that do not account for the same variables, again bad statistics.

    3) Your one point contradicts the other. The rate of divorce is higher among cohabitors, yet atheists have a lower divorce rate despite higher cohabitation?
  24. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:54 pm
    "But atheism is still prejudice. It does not condemn murder, rape, incest, bestiality, racism, sexism, stealing, lying, or any other evil."
    Atheism doesnt condemn anything, so that would be true, but meanwhile, most atheists are against all these things. Not because they are scared of some form of punishment in a possible afterlife, but just because those arent nice things.

    Also, you might want to know that religion doesnt condemn racism, or sexism, for example. Or at least, christianity doesnt, christianity is firmly for racism and sexism, if you ever read the bible.

    Whats important though, isnt what your faith condemns or doesnt. Your actions are whats important. What good is it that it condemns all those things when ppl still do it?
    Thats what the video is about, ppl ignoring what their religion tells them to do.
    Christianity tells you to be racist, to be sexist, not to divorce, not to have sex outside marriage, and ppl disobey.
    Pick
  25. Profile photo of grindinblade
    grindinblade Male 18-29
    234 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 4:56 pm
    Heureux your argument is one that drives all atheists insane. Just because one does not believe in god does not mean that one does not have morals. We do not think that it is okay to rape, murder, and steal and find it abhorrent that god is the only reason you do.
    Second it is not a belief to claim superiority to others, merely trying to understand the universe as science explains it. When people disagree with religion it has always been the same persecution from Galileo to evolutionist.
  26. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 5:07 pm
    Atheism doesn`t teach morals because it doesn`t teach anything. If it doesn`t teach anything then it can`t be a religion so thanks for establishing that for us Heureux, because I know you`ve made that argument before and it`s refreshing to see you prove yourself wrong.

    Also:
    Prejudice (or foredeeming) is making a judgment or assumption about someone or something before having enough knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy.

    So Heureux, you saying that atheists are prejudice is a prejudice thing to say.
  27. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36668 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Of course, we`re assuming the source information the video comments on is correct.

    but it does feed into my personal agenda so let`s not confuse the issue with facts
  28. Profile photo of Ogen
    Ogen Male 18-29
    441 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 5:27 pm
    I don`t see why anyone is offended by this. If it points out your hypocrisy, maybe you want to think about how you are living your life and how you can change it so you are living the things out the way you believe them.
  29. Profile photo of MechBFP
    MechBFP Male 18-29
    813 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 5:27 pm
    The sad thing is that some people on here aren`t trolling, they really are that stupid.
  30. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 5:50 pm
    I didn`t pay any attention to any of what was said in the video or in this thread.

    As an atheist, what I did pay attention to is this chick is hot.
  31. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 6:06 pm
    But atheism is still prejudice. It does not condemn murder, rape, incest, bestiality, racism, sexism, stealing, lying, or any other evil.

    It is a ego-masturbatory excuse for some people to claim that they are superior to every other human being who ever existed.
    Oh, f*ck up Heureux. Change the record, for f*ck sake.
  32. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 7:09 pm
    It cracks me up when people say with certainty what a bible verse means. When all they are really giving us is their interpretation.
  33. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 7:10 pm
    The sad thing is that some people on here aren`t judgemental, they really are that evil.
  34. Profile photo of Aedran
    Aedran Female 18-29
    295 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 7:34 pm
    The politics within the New Testament are very clear. Matthew was a apostle who lived in an era where Jews of certain wealth were despised. Even so, Matthew had to admit that Jesus ate with tax collectors and treated everyone with kindness and respect.

    God never once said anything about being poor equates to Heaven. That`s all New Testament, which was often written after Jesus`s death (in which most of the Apostles were on the run or in hiding, typically poor or jobless). The only thing God said about possessions was not to covet thy neighbor`s.
  35. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 7:42 pm
    "God never once said anything about being poor equates to Heaven. That`s all New Testament, which was often written after Jesus`s death"

    Funny you should say this. When people point out some not so pleasant things from the old testament, some people like to say "oh that`s in the old testament, we follow what`s in the new testament now" . But what you`re basically saying is to ignore what`s in the new testament and follow what`s in the old testament? Shouldn`t what`s in the new testament be "god inspired" whether or not it was written after Jesus` death? Maybe I`m misunderstanding...
  36. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36668 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Heureux - "But atheism is still prejudice. It does not condemn murder, rape, incest, bestiality, racism, sexism, stealing, lying, or any other evil"

    LOL. Now THATs funny!
    Atheism is not a religion. It`s not supposed to overide your own brain and tell you what to think. It is simply the concept that there are no Super Power guys up in the sky directing your life. The thought process is up to you and no blaming it on "god".

    As for lying, I don`t condem it in every circumstance. Ever tried to get laid without lying?
  37. Profile photo of Aedran
    Aedran Female 18-29
    295 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 7:57 pm
    @LillianDulci, There`s really a LOT of stuff that should be ignored in the Bible. Leviticus, for example. But the fundamentals of being good to one another, don`t steal, kill, or cheat...those are what should be focused on. If Jesus says that we should pray in private, think of the why. Mostly because when we pray in public, we are doing so half-heartedly to follow the crowd. We should pray to God only if we mean it. We should aid our fellow man, not give all our worldly possessions to him. It sounds bad to have to "pick-and-choose" what we worship, but it due to the fact that back then, they were pretty ignorant and would write things based upon their own personal fears or prejudices. The Bible isn`t a rule book. It`s a record, full of bias and fallacies, but with some elements of truth to it.
  38. Profile photo of kittyloaf
    kittyloaf Male 18-29
    213 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:20 pm
    @Aedran Then what is the point of it if it is full of bias and fallacies?! How can you tell what is good to follow from what isnt? Why pick and choose?

    It seems like the only way to tell what is good in the bible, is to use common sense. IE the bible isnt useful at all, if you can figure it out on your own.
  39. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:42 pm
    grindinblade: Cohabitors are unmarried people living together, they are separate from married couples statistically, you`re making the mistake of thinking they are somehow combined.
  40. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:43 pm
    "LOL. Now THATs funny!"

    The LOL respond indicates the lack of a sane counterargument.

    "Atheism is not a religion."

    I did not say it is, I said it is a prejudice. There is a difference. Something can be a prejudice without being a religion or related to religion in any way. However, atheism is a belief about God, and that does fit some people`s definition of religion.
    "It`s not supposed to overide your own brain and tell you what to think."

    And yet, that is exactly what atheism does, as the behavior of atheists online demonstrates.

    "As for lying, I don`t condem it in every circumstance. Ever tried to get laid without lying?"

    I`ve never had to tell any lies to get laid. Of course, I`m not an atheist, so that may help.

    Atheism is a prejudice.
  41. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:47 pm
    Bull

    "Atheism doesn`t teach morals because it doesn`t teach anything."

    No, it does teach one thing - the condemnation of religion (which teach morals). Atheism is in that sense anti-moral.

    "If it doesn`t teach anything then it can`t be a religion"

    Nonsense. Atheism teaches a negative assertion about God, by many people`s definition, and some dictionaries, that makes it a religion. However, whether or not it is a religion, it is still a prejudice - a negative prejudgement about people.

    "so thanks for establishing that for us Heureux, because I know you`ve made that argument before and it`s refreshing to see you prove yourself wrong."

    Since I have not, and since your statement is wrong, guess what that means?

    You are wrong, not I.
  42. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:51 pm
    Bull

    Atheism doesn`t teach morals because it doesn`t teach anything. If it doesn`t teach anything then it can`t be a religion so thanks for establishing that for us Heureux, because I know you`ve made that argument before and it`s refreshing to see you prove yourself wrong.

    "Prejudice (or foredeeming) is making a judgment or assumption about someone or something before having enough knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy.

    So Heureux, you saying that atheists are prejudice is a prejudice thing to say. "

    Nope. While your definition is loose, judging a belief or thought to be wrong is not prejudice. However, declaring, as atheism does, that all people of a group are wrong, is prejudice.

    But your statement affirms that atheism is a prejudice.
  43. Profile photo of Deviros
    Deviros Male 18-29
    535 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:52 pm
    Yea - that`s not even good satire.

    She should _probably_ understand the material she`s making fun of before actually trying to make her points...

    Also - her chromakey sucks. Very distracting.
  44. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:54 pm
    Gerry: Since atheists are the largest sector of cohabitors, percentage wise, they may not be officially married, but some states consider couples that have lived together for 3 years or more to be `common law married`, others states don`t. But it`s clear that most people considered cohabiting for several years to be equal to a marriage, even if there is no ceremony.
  45. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:56 pm
    Grind

    "Heureux your argument is one that drives all atheists insane. Just because one does not believe in god does not mean that one does not have morals. "

    But that is not my argument. I simply stated the truth - atheism, the belief, expresses no condemnation of anything except religion.

    "We do not think that it is okay to rape, murder, and steal and find it abhorrent that god is the only reason you do."

    Your projection indicates a lack of morality on your part.

    "Second it is not a belief to claim superiority to others, merely trying to understand the universe as science explains it. "

    Sorry, but science does not affirm atheism, at all. It cannot, and any atheist who tries to use science to prove atheism rapes science in the process.

    Don`t forget the Stasi and their persecution of people of faith. And the many atheists who would eradicate religion by any means possible if they could.
  46. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:57 pm
    It does not condemn murder, rape, incest, bestiality, racism, sexism, stealing, lying, or any other evil.
    The difference, Heurex, is that an atheist doesn`t need to be TOLD it`s wrong, they just KNOW it`s wrong.

    We don`t have to fear a punishment, we just don`t do it on principle.

    If you have an incredibly valuable object and two people, one who simply knows stealing is wrong, and another who only thinks they shouldn`t steal it because they`ll be punished, who`s more likely to steal it if they thought they could get away with it?

    So while you fear your fire and brimstone, going through the motions of being a good person just so you don`t get punished, I`ll go ahead and actually BE a good person just because it`s the right thing to do.

    If I get punished for being a good person but NOT begging forgiveness just for existing, then so be it. Your god`s an assh*le, and I don`t want to worship him in the first place.
  47. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 8:59 pm
    "Oh, f*ck up Heureux. Change the record, for f*ck sake. "

    Homophobes respond the same way, and so do racists. It is not a coincidence that atheism is defended in exactly the same way that every other prejudice is defended - verbal abuse, lies, distortions, irrational and dishonest generalizations, and deception.

    Whether you like it or not, atheism is a prejudice, it fits the dictionary definition, and it manifests in all of the diagnostic symptoms of prejudice, particularly in egotism and self-aggrandizement.
  48. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:04 pm
    "The difference, Heurex, is that an atheist doesn`t need to be TOLD it`s wrong, they just KNOW it`s wrong. "

    Really? There is no evidence to support such a claim.

    "So while you fear your fire and brimstone, "

    Yet nothing I have posted suggests this, making your statement a lie. Is this an example of how you "know" that telling lies is wrong?

    Do you realize that your defense is based on egotism, on the presumption that atheists are superior?

    That is evidence of prejudice.

    The reality is that whatever morals any atheist has, he/she picked up from the society around him/her - which almost certainly got them from religion.

    Atheism teaches no morals, and the behavior of atheists online indicates little morality other than "me, me, me".

    Atheism is a prejudice, just like homophobia and racism and sexism - just one more way a group of people decide that other people are inferior.
  49. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:07 pm
    morimacil

    "Also, you might want to know that religion doesnt condemn racism, or sexism, for example. Or at least, christianity doesnt, christianity is firmly for racism and sexism, if you ever read the bible."

    No, you are wrong. Do you consider lying to be moral behavior? Or are you just completely ignorant about religion and Christianity?

    The core precepts of Christianity absolutely reject prejudice of any kind. "Love your neighbor as yourself" disallows any harmful action, and any prejudice.

    But atheism is a prejudice, and intrinsically affirms every other prejudice as well.
  50. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:10 pm
    atheism, the belief, expresses no condemnation of anything except religion.
    First off, Atheism is a belief like bald is a haircut.

    Second, atheism as does not "condemn" ANYTHING. It is nothing more than the LACK of belief in any "divine figure."

    While individual atheists may condemn religion, they are exactly that: individuals. There is no set of atheist thought processes, there is no atheist code, there is only ONE thing that all atheists share in common:

    That we do not see any proof or reason to believe in a divine figure, and so we do not believe in a divine figure.

    How someone wants to use this personal revelation is up to them. There is no atheist code telling them what to do.
  51. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:10 pm
    The Berlin Wall was built by atheists, and torn down by people of faith.
  52. Profile photo of IrishJesus
    IrishJesus Male 18-29
    483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:14 pm
    Heureux: You`re still trolling our forums? I don`t understand it.

    What I think is most infuriating to atheists arguing your "point" that "atheism is a prejudice because it claims the religions are wrong" is that Christianity (and all religions) do the same to every other belief. Christians believe atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, etc. are wrong. Muslims believe YADA YADA YADA.

    Atheism is just proclaiming "I don`t believe in God", not "THE IDEA OF GOD SHOULD BE BURNED TO ASHES".
  53. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:16 pm
    "First off, Atheism is a belief like bald is a haircut."

    Atheism is not based on fact, it is based on the lack of evidence or facts. Bald can be a haircut - achieved by shaving. So it is comparable to the lack of hair, whether by shaving or other means.

    "Second, atheism as does not "condemn" ANYTHING."
    Sure it does. But since it does not condemn lying, there was nothing stopping you from making a false claim. Atheism condemns people of faith, their experiences, character and lives.

    "That we do not see any proof or reason to believe in a divine figure, and so we do not believe in a divine figure."

    Since knowledge of the Divine is based on the personal experiences of other people, atheists refuse, without evidence or experience, to believe most of humanity, passing judgement on all people of faith.

    That is prejudice at work. Atheism is a prejudice, and nothing else. It is just ego-aggrandizemen
  54. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:16 pm
    However, declaring, as atheism does, that all people of a group are wrong, is prejudice.
    Like you declaring that all atheists are wrong and prejudiced?

    Calling the kettle black, much?
  55. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:18 pm
    Bald can be a haircut - achieved by shaving.
    That, my little moron, is referred to as "shaved," not bald.

    If you don`t even know the difference between bald and shaved, then obviously this argument is wasted on you. All your brain cells (what few you have) are full to capacity.
  56. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:20 pm
    Irish

    Your post provides evidence that substantiates my assertion. Thanks.

    "your "point" that "atheism is a prejudice because it claims the religions are wrong""

    Actually, my point is that atheism is a prejudice because it rejects the testimony and experiences of a group of people solely because of who they are, without any evidence or experience to affirm it`s own claim. The false generalizations you used, not only indicate ignorance about religion, but also demonstrate prejudice on your part.
  57. Profile photo of MechBFP
    MechBFP Male 18-29
    813 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:23 pm
    You know he is trolling yet you keep responding. Well done dip poo.
  58. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:26 pm
    "That, my little moron,"

    This sort of response indicates two things:

    1) an inability to be civil
    2) an inability to present a rational rebuttal.

    Quibbling over "bald" vs. "shaved" is just dishonest.

    Your argument is entirely ad hominem, a symptom of prejudice. It indicates that you presume yourself to be superior, without evidence, but chose to prove that superiority with inferior behavior and inferior argumentation.

    Homophobes do the same thing, so do racists. When challenged, they rely on insults, lies and personal attacks, too.

    The striking, and consistent parallels between how atheism is expressed, and how all other prejudices are expressed, are real, and crucial.

    And the more people become aware of them, the more people will realize that atheism is just another trendy, fad prejudice. It gives people who cannot openly be racist, sexist or homophobic an acceptable way to feel superior
  59. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:28 pm
    When you cannot refute someone, dismiss them as a troll, or an idiot,

    cuz yeah, that`ll stroke your ego real good.
  60. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:32 pm
    Heureux, by your definition of prejudice, I could declare Christianity a prejudice. In fact, all religions are prejudices while we`re at it.

    Indeed, you call atheism an ego boost? Well, what is Christianity?

    "I`m following the right god, I`m going to heaven, you`re not, unless you decide to follow the same god I do. Otherwise, you`re going to be punished for all eternity. It`s just fact."

    Claim all you want that it`s not, it`s doing the exact same thing you accuse Atheists of doing.

    Have fun with that, you damn hypocrite.

    Oh, and as for your fearing fire and brimstone, why else would you follow the moral code? I mean, it`s not like you have any reason besides your religion holding you back from committing the most heinous of crimes.

    Unless... *GASP* Humans have an innate moral code, which atheists follow rather than some book, and we follow it just because it`s the right thing to do!
  61. Profile photo of Aedran
    Aedran Female 18-29
    295 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:32 pm
    @kittyloaf, like I said, it`s NOT a rule book. It`s a book of histories, stories, and prayer. Have you ever seen old written records before? They are just as biased and full of exaggerations as the Bible.

    We read the Bible, we based our beliefs on the common belief within it, and we learn from it. People who view the Bible as a rule book are the people who are homophobic, virgin crusaders, and we can all agree that God never intended for us to hate one another and force people into believing in him.

    The Bible is a historical record, which Christians should read in order to learn about the past, learn about God and Jesus, and learn about our past mistakes and try to better ourselves. You just have to pull off all the views of the author to get to the core point (a reason why there is multiple books instead of just one, even though they are all basically telling the same story).
  62. Profile photo of IrishJesus
    IrishJesus Male 18-29
    483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:33 pm
    Huer:
    Ignorance about religion?

    I was raised by a Methodist dad and a Catholic mom. I have attended every christian denominational church and talked the pastors personally. I have spent many hours reading about world-wide religions. I did all of this because I did not myself believe in what the church was founded on.

    When I finally decided that I PERSONALLY didn`t believe in a god, I really started exploring life. I didn`t become immoral, angry, or self-centered. It just allowed me to mature naturally without other beliefs being forced on me.

    I don`t dislike Christianity. I just don`t believe what they believe. It`s infuriating to me that because I don`t believe in what other people claim they`ve experienced, I`m a BIGOT, according to your logic.

    By the way, isn`t saying that my "ignorance" is aid to your anti-atheist argument a "false generalization"?
  63. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:38 pm
    No one tells an Atheist how to think.
  64. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:39 pm
    rejects the testimony and experiences of a group of people solely because of who they are, without any evidence or experience to affirm it`s own claim.
    Do you reject UFO enthusiasts claims?

    Would you trust a bunch of stoners and drug addicts as witnesses in a court case?

    Would you believe a group of scientists with some amazing new "discovery" until you`d seen it for yourself?

    I have yet to see, experience, or even encounter evidence that acts as proof of the existence of some divine being. Until I encounter proof, I shall remain skeptical. And that`s all atheism is. Healthy skepticism.

    Whether a group of people 2000 years ago supposedly saw a man walk on water is none of my concern. I saw Chris Angel walk on water too, actually. I`ve also seen someone turn water blood-red with a very fine, nearly invisible powder. But neither of them are the messiah, and neither of those tricks were "miracles."
  65. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:40 pm
    Prejudice (or foredeeming) is making a judgment or assumption about someone or something before having enough knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy.
    I like how Heureux posts that definition as if it supports his claim the Atheists are prejudicial. It is the struggle to NOT be prejudicial that drives people to be Atheists. Atheists do no make an assumption about God because they are unable to do so with guaranteed accuracy. It is Heureux that has made an assumption about God, otherwise he`d be an Atheist.

    It is possible to not believe in God and still be unsure of God`s existence. I think a big hurdle for people accepting Atheism is the need for answers. There are 2 answers to the big unknowns in the universe, "God did it", and "I don`t know". Atheists are comfortable with "I don`t know", but the religious are not.
  66. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:51 pm
    The Berlin Wall was built by atheists, and torn down by people of faith.
    Correction, the Berlin Wall was built by politicians using atheism as a political tool.

    Just like the Crusades and Inquisitions were launched by politicians using Christianity (particularly Catholicism) as a political tool.

    And the Westboro Baptist Church was built up by a bunch of inbreds using Christianity as a tool.

    Works both ways, buddy. That, my friends, is called an Ad Hominem attack, something that Heureux just a few posts ago, called a tactic of atheists, homophobes, and racists. Look it up for yourself, folks, I`m coming too close to the 1000 character limit to quote it.

    Heureux, You`re nothing but a lousy hypocrite.

    Or a troll. Which is all too likely, considering this is the internet and you`re using an almost completely anonymous account without even an avatar picture.
  67. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:52 pm
    Only 5 ways? I`ve have personally seen a woman dressed in her "Sunday best" intentionally bump an obviously poverty-stricken woman off the end of a pew in God`s house before a service. The faithful can construct some pretty bizarre rationalizations for their beliefs. I`m sure they chose 5 ways, rather than 1,005 in order to keep the video short.
  68. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3889 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:53 pm
    "Would you trust a bunch of stoners and drug addicts as witnesses in a court case?"

    I would trust a stoner in a court case. Crack head, no. Meth head, no.
  69. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:54 pm
    I get the feeling he realized he`s lost, and is skipping out.

    Ah well, I`ll check here again tomorrow. See if I can catch any more of his hypocrisy in action.

    I`d turn it into a drinking game, if I weren`t underage. And if I wouldn`t die from alcohol poisoning.
  70. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 9:56 pm
    I would trust a stoner in a court case. Crack head, no. Meth head, no.
    Yeah, looking back at that, I really shouldn`t have included stoners in that group.

    Still, the fact stands, there`s always a risk that they were high when they were a "witness," and that their testimony or judgement will be altered by that.

    Unless he can prove he wasn`t high at the time, I would take his account with a grain of salt.
  71. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 10:11 pm
    Quibbling over "bald" vs. "shaved" is just dishonest.
    And BTW, in case you actually DO come back to this forum:

    No, there actually IS a difference between "bald" and "shaved."

    My father is BALD. His hair fell out, and never grew back in again. He has nothing up there, it`s smooth and will never be anything but bald. He doesn`t need to consistently have it shaved or styled, there just isn`t hair there. It`s not a HAIRCUT, because there IS NO HAIR.

    My little brother, on the other hand, SHAVED his head. He still has stubble, he can let it grow back out if he wants to, there are still hair follicles under the skin, he can still style it, and on top of it all, he still needs to get a HAIRCUT every so often to keep it shaved. Which means that there is STILL HAIR THERE.

    It`s only a HAIRCUT, if there`s HAIR to CUT.

    It`s only a BELIEF, if there`s SOMETHING to BELIEVE in.
  72. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 10:12 pm
    Atheism is not an ego boost over you.

    Even if it were, I wouldn`t need it.

    The difference in intelligence is more than enough.
  73. Profile photo of robosnitz
    robosnitz Male 40-49
    2737 posts
    October 11, 2011 at 10:32 pm
    I HATE Jeebus AND his cousins now!!!
  74. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:22 am
    ""Also, you might want to know that religion doesnt condemn racism, or sexism, for example. Or at least, christianity doesnt, christianity is firmly for racism and sexism, if you ever read the bible."

    No, you are wrong. Do you consider lying to be moral behavior? Or are you just completely ignorant about religion and Christianity?

    The core precepts of Christianity absolutely reject prejudice of any kind."
    Its true that christianity rejects lying, but it is very clearly in favor of racism and sexism, most of the old testament talks about the "chosen folk" (racism), and women are to never have a higher social status than men (sexism).

  75. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:25 am
    And yes, by your definition of prejudice, atheism is a prejudice. Thats fine with me.
    By your definition of prejudice, being against racism is being prejudiced against racists, being against sexism is being prejudiced against sexists, being against rape is being prejudiced against rapists, and so on.
    Most people use a different definition for prejudice than you do. But no matter, lets not get hung up on words.

    Since according to your definition, rejecting anything at all is prejudice, no matter the reason for rejecting it, then fine by me tbh. You can call me prejudiced for rejecting belief in a fairytale, or prejudiced because I hate racists, fine. Was that your whole argument?
  76. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:32 am
    Exodus 21:20-21 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

    Leviticus 25:44-46 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

    and so on.
    Careful reading of the bible will reveal something very interesting:

    All men are equals.
    Slaves arent considered men.

    Thus there is a slew of passages that promote slavery, and also some that promote equality, and in appearance, they seem to contradict each other.
  77. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:44 am
    In Ephesians 5:22-24 we find this: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

    Women are also considered to be inferior in the bible. Again, to some, that might seem to clash with some of the other text written, about equality amongst all men. However, women were not considered to be men (Use of the word "man" to describe mankind in general is fairly recent, previously it was simply used to describe a male human).

    Its just pick and choose on what you want to believe in, mostly because what the bible actually tells you to do, is only partly a good set of ideals, and to other part completely horrifying.
  78. Profile photo of morimacil123
    morimacil123 Male 18-29
    171 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:52 am
    But examples of pick and choose in religion abound.
    One of the best example are banks.

    Did you know that it is forbidden for christians to lend money, or work in banks? Well at least it was.
    But then Protestantism developed, which conveniently allowed ppl to lend money without going to hell. They were hunted across most of europe by the catholics, and a lot of them came to geneva (in switzerland), protected by Calvin.
    Those banks prospered, and now switzerland is quite known for its swiss banks (and chocolate).

    What happened?
    Religion forbids lending money
    Pick and choosers choose to ignore that, found protestantism, lend money.
    Catholics see its good buisness, choose to ignore that too, and also lend money (but without creating a new religion)
    Everyone lends money, even though its against the bible.

    A great example of why pick and choose makes christianity popular, and how it tends to happen.
  79. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14622 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 4:04 am
    Atheism is neither a prejudice, nor arrogance, per se. Believing in imaginary supernatural beings simply because your community does is just something that doesn`t make much sense to us.
  80. Profile photo of botfly
    botfly Male 50-59
    616 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 4:07 am
    don`t care
  81. Profile photo of CreamK
    CreamK Male 40-49
    1423 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 5:04 am
    WIN!
  82. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 6:25 am
    This is wonderful.
  83. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 6:31 am
    However, women were not considered to be men (Use of the word "man" to describe mankind in general is fairly recent, previously it was simply used to describe a male human).

    That is not just wrong, it is a complete reversal of the truth.

    "man" is the Old English word for "person". It was completely sex-neutral from before recorded history began and throughout the existence of Old English. Sexing it required forming a compound word with an OE sexing adjective. Wereman (male person) or wifman (female person).

    It wasn`t until Middle English that `were` fell out of use (possibly because the changes in language had morphed common usage of `wifman` into `woman` and `wereman` into `we`man` and they sounded too alike.) From then on, `man` was either male-specific or sex-neutral depending on context.

    `man` has only generally been seen as male-specific for the last 30 or 40 years! You could not be more wrong.
  84. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 6:52 am
    That last sentence should read:

    `man` has generally been seen as ONLY male-specific for just the last 30 or 40 years! You could not be more wrong.
  85. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 7:04 am
    Heureux - You`re wrong. Those are all assumptions you are making. Assumptions that help you preserve your prejudice against atheists. You understand the logic behind this but for whatever reason it just isn`t sinking into that head of yours. Good luck with that.
  86. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 7:28 am
    Suffice to say, Heureux, I think we`re all willing to accept that Atheism is a prejudice.

    As long as you`re willing to admit that what you`re doing is like the KKK calling the Black Panthers prejudiced.
  87. Profile photo of crystemp
    crystemp Female 18-29
    13 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 7:43 am
    morimacil123; Could you point out exactly where the bible says that Christians cannot lend money? I`ve never come across that passage.
  88. Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3284 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 7:50 am
    @Heureux
    "Actually, my point is that atheism is a prejudice because it rejects the testimony and experiences of a group of people solely because of who they are, without any evidence or experience to affirm it`s own claim."

    If you are going to go through life trying to paint atheists with this same brush then you are just as guilty of what you are trying to project onto atheists. If you look around and actually talk with people instead of at them you will realize that there are plenty of atheists and agnostics that used to fall under the Christian umbrella, who have heard the testimonies and experiences, and who have decided to leave that path.
  89. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 9:06 am
    >>>morimacil123; Could you point out exactly where the bible says that Christians cannot lend money? I`ve never come across that passage.<<<

    Because it is not their. The whole video tries to confuse people by making factually incorrect statements.
  90. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 9:10 am
    The bible is a book on theology about god`s relationship with man. It was written at a time when there were slaves and wars and sexism. You must read the bible in the context of the society and norms in place when it was written.
  91. Profile photo of austin1
    austin1 Male 30-39
    288 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 9:36 am
    Ehh, I`d do her I guess
  92. Profile photo of Lord_Jereth
    Lord_Jereth Male 40-49
    725 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 9:59 am
    @crystemp

    "Could you point out exactly where the bible says that Christians cannot lend money?"

    In fact, there are many in the old testament that talk about the practice:
    Exd 22:25, Lev 25:36, Lev 25:37, Deu 23:19, Psa 15:5, Pro 28:8, Eze 18:8, Eze 18:13, Eze 18:17, Eze 22:12.

    Specifically: Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.

    Enjoy,

    8-) LJ
  93. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 10:24 am
    You must read the bible in the context of the society and norms in place when it was written.
    In trying to support the Bible, you have defeated the religious argument against this video, well done. That is exactly what Atheists want, keep the Bible in context. It is a 2,000 year old book that has no place in modern society.

    We have learned that the Bible can only relate to modern life through cherry picking and complicated interpretations. We have seen how people can ignore their innate moral code and we are coming to understand how to prevent that. It is high time that we use our vast knowledge to hold each other to a higher standard than the ideals in a 2,000 year old book written by a barbaric people.

    It is time to realize that the angry, childish, and petty God of the Bible does not want the best for mankind. It is time to realize that we all want to love our neighbors and we don`t need the teachings of Jesus as a crutch.
  94. Profile photo of austin1
    austin1 Male 30-39
    288 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 10:44 am
    Really? I cant be the only guy that would do this chick. No one would turn down a blow job from her though right?
  95. Profile photo of Lord_Jereth
    Lord_Jereth Male 40-49
    725 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 10:57 am
    @NottaSpy

    While I totally agree with and endorse your statement, I do have one little quibble:

    In the case of the old testament, parts of it are between 4000 and 6000 years old. Parts of the new testament are less than 2000.

    But yes, in 2011, we`re expected to live up to the ideals and teachings of 4-6000 year old, goat herding, barely bronze-aged, animal sacrificing, desert and hill dwelling savages; 99% of whom were illiterate and subsisted, intellectually, on word-of-mouth stories, parables and legends, by people who have less of a grip on reality or history than they did.

    <sarcasm>
    Sounds totally legitimate to me!
    </sarcasm>

    8-) LJ
  96. Profile photo of Quackor
    Quackor Male 18-29
    2856 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:01 am
    its stupid to attack religion based on what an old book says when there is a fictional dude passing judgement on everyone over the clouds
  97. Profile photo of austin1
    austin1 Male 30-39
    288 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:29 am
    I`d do her in the butt also.
  98. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:56 am
    @Lord_Jereth, you are correct. The problem is that I can`t expound on various parts when trying to make a point since I am limited by 1,000 characters.
  99. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:03 pm
    Seems like we need a lesson in context and READING THE WHOLE PASSAGE.

    Deuteronomy 23:19 20 and 21
    Thou shalt not bring the hire of a harlot, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow; for even both these are an abomination unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.
    Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.
  100. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:08 pm
    Exekiel 22:12

    In you men accept bribes to shed blood; you take usury and excessive interest and make unjust gain from your neighbors by extortion. And you have forgotten me, declares the Sovereign LORD.

    Seems like interest is not forbidden after all just excessive interest. This passage is in reference to exerting unfair power over other humans.

    So again your argument that the bible forbids interest fails.
  101. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 12:14 pm
    >>We have learned that the Bible can only relate to modern life through cherry picking and complicated interpretations.<<

    No by reading and understanding the reason and purpose not by trying to push your agenda. You are the one cherry picking phrases out of context and meaning.

    >>We have seen how people can ignore their innate moral code and we are coming to understand how to prevent that.<<

    There is no innate moral code other than me and my family come first. That is the driving force of evolution. Period. Anything beyond that is artificially created by those in power who are doing what is best for them and their family.

    I do not know if God is real or not but I do know my life is better because of my faith that he is.
  102. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    No by reading and understanding the reason and purpose not by trying to push your agenda.
    How do you know the "reason and purpose"? Also, aren`t you pushing your own agenda by claiming to know the reason and purpose?

    You are very wrong about there not being an innate moral code. The evidence is overwhelming that it exists. You are either unaware of the evidence, do not understand the evidence, or are willfully dismissing the evidence because it poses a threat to your beliefs.

    I have not cherry picked anything (except the word "abomination" in the Sam Harris thread, but that was just a jab). I have studied historical origins of Christianity to understand the context in which the Bible was written. The archaeological evidence shows a very different context from that which Christians use to rationalize their beliefs.
  103. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:01 pm
    It`s all a pile of wank
  104. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:05 pm
    "No by reading and understanding the reason and purpose not by trying to push your agenda. You are the one cherry picking phrases out of context and meaning."

    Well since events like the council of Nicaea decided which testaments made it into the Bible, that I`d consider cherry picking. Also, how do you then explain all the different denominations of Christians? They all differ on certain interpretations of that same book, or councils regarding the book. Should interpretation even be allowed? How can one interpret what is supposed to be the word of God? His instructions are more confusing than ones from Ikea, although I guess they both contain magic since those little wooden pegs seem to go where they are supposed to of their own accord.
  105. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:28 pm
    >>You are very wrong about there not being an innate moral code. The evidence is overwhelming that it exists. You are either unaware of the evidence, do not understand the evidence, or are willfully dismissing the evidence because it poses a threat to your beliefs. <<

    Nice debate tactic. I either admit there is one, or I must be ignored because I say there is not one.

    Evolution is the survival of the fittest. Period. The survival of a set of genes is strongly improved if those genes or traits imparted by those genes improve the chances of successful reproduction of the carrier of the gene or trait. Thus ANY innate moral code would have to be strongly biased toward protection and advancement of yourself and your offspring or it would have died out long ago.

    Is there an innate moral code, no other than benefiting ones own small social circle.

  106. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:30 pm
    >>How do you know the "reason and purpose"? Also, aren`t you pushing your own agenda by claiming to know the reason and purpose? <<

    I did not say I did. But I reject the argument that you can take individual statements out of the bible and interpret them without the context, social, historical, and surrounding passages.
  107. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:35 pm
    >>>The archaeological evidence shows a very different context from that which Christians use to rationalize their beliefs.<<<

    Indeed then you understand that this in NOT the context in which we live today. So we must interpret the Bible with respect to the context it was written in. For example slavery was prevalent in the time the bible was written. The passages in the bible regarding slavery are written using a at the time common action to teach that we should treat each other better. Treating each other with respect is the point not whether or not you should have slaves. As this thought grew we came to realize that the act of slavery was the antithesis of treating each other with respect and abolished the practice.
  108. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:36 pm
    >>Also, how do you then explain all the different denominations of Christians? <<

    I believe God has different plans for different people. I also believe that some who call themselves christian are anything but.
  109. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:37 pm
    >>How can one interpret what is supposed to be the word of God? <<

    Because God is working in our lives to help us understand his purpose.
  110. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:37 pm
    >>His instructions are more confusing than ones from Ikea, although I guess they both contain magic since those little wooden pegs seem to go where they are supposed to of their own accord.<<<

    This is a funey joke.
  111. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:40 pm
    Nope, not a debate tactic, it is actual science. The evidence for innate morality is overwhelming. I understand that you don`t want to believe it. There are college courses that can enlighten you as to what science has found and they are not limited to 1,000 characters. You will also find that in college you don`t have to deal with links to agenda driven websites that spew nonsense that has been debunked long ago.
  112. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:48 pm
    >>>Nope, not a debate tactic, it is actual science. The evidence for innate morality is overwhelming. <<<

    I love this response.

    Debate trick
    1. Appeal to higher power. (College courses)
    2. Claim it is too complicated for us mortals to understand. (1000 character limit.)

    Now for my debate trick.

    I have to leave the conversation as I just received a burglar alarm at my house. Maybe God is trying to speak to me;)
  113. Profile photo of Jasonbobdude
    Jasonbobdude Male 18-29
    1598 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:54 pm
    OMG RELIGION! Let`s all debate it while not really listening to what others have to say!
  114. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 1:57 pm
    dang007, you are making a mess of explaining context and interpretation.

    So God wrote an ancient book that no longer applies, so it is up to you to interpret for yourself what it means now so that you can follow God`s unknowable plan? Are you listening to yourself?

    Why would God write a book that needs to be interpreted? Why hasn`t God come out with Bible 2.0 (maybe he can`t find a publisher)? How can you know God`s plan so that you know how to interpret the Bible, but not know God`s plan when it is needed to explain the very unGod-like things that happen?

  115. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:02 pm
    dang007, you can think it is a debate trick, but it really isn`t. There is no way to show you the evidence here, it just is not possible. I am not resting my argument on the fact that there are college courses. I am saying, go take them and see the evidence for yourself. That is what I did. I don`t expect you to take my word for it. Go and see for yourself. You cannot argue a point until you have seen the evidence. So go see it.
  116. Profile photo of patchgrabber
    patchgrabber Male 30-39
    5812 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 2:04 pm
    Wheel of power
  117. Profile photo of xCYBERDYNEx
    xCYBERDYNEx Male 18-29
    4903 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm
    @dang007, seriously? tl;dr
  118. Profile photo of Linkenberger
    Linkenberger Male 18-29
    1164 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 10:25 pm
    They nailed the... nail on the head with the praying and divorce thing. Those have been my biggest pet peeves with Christians.

    "Why would God write a book that needs to be interpreted? Why hasn`t God come out with Bible 2.0 (maybe he can`t find a publisher)?"

    Actually, I think the problem is Bible 2.0 already exists; and it was made hundreds of years ago. The versions we use currently are closer to Bible 70.0 when you account for both language and version translations. Actually it could be higher than that -- it`s been a while since I researched it. Basically, if anyone quotes the bible, it`s best to find out what that verse said in the traditional Greek/Hebrew script it was written in, and then call people out on it.
  119. Profile photo of defendors87
    defendors87 Male 18-29
    570 posts
    October 12, 2011 at 11:04 pm
    linken, read the book of mormon. it`s kinda like a bible 2.0
  120. Profile photo of richanddead
    richanddead Male 18-29
    3489 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 1:08 am
    Everyday is judgement day eh? Sure seems to be.
  121. Profile photo of mac_24_seven
    mac_24_seven Male 18-29
    86 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 4:54 am
    @Linkengerger

    You can actually get a lil book called a Diaglott (I think thats the spelling). But, from my understanding, its a literal word for word greek translation into english.
  122. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 8:20 am
    >>> You cannot argue a point until you have seen the evidence. So go see it.<<<

    OK I am back. Then show and or describe the evidence. I have by the way provided a explanation of why the only possible "inate moral code" is the preservation of ones own genes. But you have tactfully ignored that and continue to respond with "its there I just can tell you." I do not need to go talk to the flat earth society to know they are wrong. I do not need to go talk to the alchemist to know they can not turn lead into gold. If you care to debate the presence or absence of an innate moral code other than the one I have described, then do it. Other wise it is a fact not in evidence in this discussion.
  123. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 8:34 am
    >>So God wrote an ancient book that no longer applies<<< Shen did I say it no longer applies?

    >>so it is up to you to interpret for yourself what it means now so that you can follow God`s unknowable plan?<< No it is up to you to seek help in understanding God`s will.

    >> Are you listening to yourself? <<

    Umm yes I am. Are you failing to see that you are missing the point. The Bible is not a text book on alchemy, or math, or science, or biology. It is a story God gave us to help us understand why his son came and died on the cross. The problem is that you are trying to assign it power it DOES NOT HAVE and never did have. It is not a set of rules it is a dialog written in a language and style the people it was written for at the time could understand. In it God has shown the several ways he has tried to deal with humanity and the failings of each attempt. Now he is dealing with humanity through his son. At the end
  124. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 8:39 am
    @patchgrabber the wheel of power really?

    I do not believe or have faith in God because of the Bible. So your logic circle is wrong. I believe and have faith in God because I know what my life was like before I did and I know my life now is better. Circle broken.
  125. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 8:42 am
    >>>The problem is that you are trying to assign it power it DOES NOT HAVE and never did have.<<<

    A mistake I should point out that a lot of Christians make as well.
  126. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 10:36 am
    Because God is working in our lives to help us understand his purpose.

    Proof?
  127. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 10:45 am
    dang said:
    You must read the bible in the context of the society and norms in place when it was written.

    NottaSpy said:
    That is exactly what Atheists want, keep the Bible in context. It is a 2,000 year old book that has no place in modern society.



    I since a cognitive dissonance here.
  128. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 10:59 am
    ned together, let no one separate."

    Please note the "Male & Female" part, he did not say "Male & Male" or "Female & Female".

    Out of context
  129. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 11:01 am
    That does not mean homosexual relationships or bachelors for life were or are immoral.
  130. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 11:05 am
    Means don`t pray just to be seen praying, don`t make a spectacle of yourself.

    ...and these people weren`t making a spectacle of themselves?
  131. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    >>>Because God is working in our lives to help us understand his purpose.


    Proof?<<

    There is none. That is why it is faith. Yet somehow I know it is true.
  132. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 1:10 pm
    There is none. That is why it is faith.

    Hmmmm... okay.
  133. Profile photo of Fleaman1797
    Fleaman1797 Male 18-29
    718 posts
    October 13, 2011 at 11:04 pm
    i LOVE Betty Bowers, ive followed her ever since her Landover Baptist website :D
  134. Profile photo of Okasen
    Okasen Female 13-17
    523 posts
    October 14, 2011 at 3:11 am
    I am an athiest, but just to play Devil`s Advocate (Or God`s Advocate in this case?) about the whole "Bible must be read in context with the time" thing- while I do admit that normally I find it weird that an omnipotent being couldn`t author a rulebook that would always be relevant, I can see a sort of scenario where the bible could be more or less legit, and still context-senstive.

    Let`s say that there is/was a god, and back in the biblical ages he did indeed have man write the bible while influenced by himself. It is possible that God only intended to send out the morals themselves, and God`s word was interpreted in context-sensitive ways by those writing the bible, such that there is indeed a god`s word in the bible that still needs some interpreting done. Essentially, like a short but really pooty telephone game.
  135. Profile photo of Okasen
    Okasen Female 13-17
    523 posts
    October 14, 2011 at 3:13 am
    Alternately, God is a weird sort of genre savvy and knew that if a guy came with a book saying "Hey guys, I heard a voice that told me that we need to give freedom to all our slaves and equality to all humanity. It`s totally God`s word." he wouldn`t have been locked up or killed or just plain ignored. Same with the case of Jesus. Yes he was crucified, but I would have to imagine that would have happened a lot sooner if he came in talking about the kind of morals we have today.

    So perhaps God is trying to ease people into not being pooheads, so we kind of just need to go with the flow and interpret the bible in new ways as we go along.

    But again, my personal opinion is that none of it is real, I just felt like throwing that out there.

    Also dang, there is evidence that humans have natural tendencies towards altruism and similar morals that allowed us to form societies which propagated the species much better than survival of the fittest.
  136. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    October 14, 2011 at 11:28 am
    >>>Also dang, there is evidence that humans have natural tendencies towards altruism and similar morals that allowed us to form societies which propagated the species much better<<

    My point exactly, and what I was saying from the beginning.

    >>>than survival of the fittest.<<<

    But it was survival of the fittest gene pool.

    Therefore it is NOT an "innate moral code" it is just evolution with the driver being increasing the likely hood that your progeny, or at least the progeny of your clan who likely share most of your genes, survive to the point that they reproduce, not true alturism.
  137. Profile photo of Okasen
    Okasen Female 13-17
    523 posts
    October 14, 2011 at 5:04 pm
    Actually, it is still an innate moral code. Just because it aids our survival doesn`t mean it`s not a moral code, it just means that morals are good things.

    Also, nice things aren`t negated just because they benefit the person doing them. That`s the whole basis of the "an eye for an eye", "what goes around comes around," "treat everyone how you want to be treated" types of morals.

    I have trouble seeing a difference between "I`ll be nice to him so that he is nice to me" and "I`ll be nice to him so our species will progess".

    Also, everything nice you can do does benefit yourself, be it because of karma, because of fearing a god, because it furthers the species, because our brains release chemicals that make us feel happy when we do them, etc. ad infinitum. That doesn`t make us necessarily selfish or negate the nice things we do, it just means we have more reason to do them. Splitting hairs over which reason is
  138. Profile photo of Okasen
    Okasen Female 13-17
    523 posts
    October 14, 2011 at 5:05 pm
    *reason is in play is silly.

    TL;DR true altruism more than likely does not exist. However, an innate moral code has been shown to exist.

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