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Date: 09/15/11 07:06 AM

178 Responses to What`s Wrong With The Tea Party?

  1. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:08 am
    Link: What`s Wrong With The Tea Party? - This.
  2. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:16 am
    What an idiot. So much for the U.S. being the "Greatest Country in the World". More like fourth or fifth now...
  3. Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    796 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:23 am
    I agree with Ron Paul.
  4. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:30 am
    How is someone supposed to pay for health care when the government has maintained a minimum wage that is below a livable wage? So this hypothetical guy should buy health care so he`s not taking a chance? Then who is going to buy his food?

    Man..the stupidity level of these guys just amazes me.
  5. Profile photo of RedSpeed
    RedSpeed Male 18-29
    16 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:30 am
    I totally agree with what he says. Oh and gess what I do not have health care.
  6. Profile photo of FoSchizle
    FoSchizle Male 18-29
    330 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:31 am
    ... He`s right. You choose to not buy health insurance, you waive your support system. Gotta deal with the consequences, not shove it off to the tax payers.
  7. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6163 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:40 am
    Healthy 30-year-old man with a good job makes a stupid decision that he was invincible and that he didn`t `need` health insurance.

    Should we, as taxpayers, be responsible for his stupidity?

    Sane people say, "NO!".

    He has no right to expect hard working people to take up the slack and pay for the responsiblity that he, himself, ignored.

    HE thought his life wasn`t worth $200-$300 a month. Who are we to argue?
  8. Profile photo of mdg
    mdg Male 30-39
    44 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:43 am
    Completely. Take responsibility for ourselves? Gasp!
  9. Profile photo of AvatarJohn
    AvatarJohn Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:45 am
    Step 1: Government screws up the healthcare system by disallowing lower-cost insurance policies, requiring everyone to buy the Rolls Royce insurance plans and making the Yugo insurance illegal.

    Step 2: Recognize that healthcare is screwed up, ignore the fact that government screwed it up and add more government in the form of ObamaCare.

    Step 3: Complain that those wascally wepubwicans are gonna kill hypothetical 30-year-olds. Ignore the fact the big-government libs have killed thousands of ACTUAL people (not hypothetical) with their healthcare-killing government behemoth programs.

    Step 4: Profit!
  10. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6163 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:45 am
    patchouly-"when the government has maintained a minimum wage that is below a livable wage."

    You DO realize that the minimum wage is not SUPPOSED to be a living wage, right?

    Minimum wage is for kids who are in school and want to earn extra money on the side and get valuable work experience.

    I worked for minimum wage while I worked my way through college. I have never worked for anything approaching minimum wage since. All it took was less than a month in a minimum wage job to realize, `Screw this crap.` (I also decided in the same time to never work in the food services industry again. Didn`t like the idea that `the customer was always right`...sometimes the customer is just an idjit.)

    If you`re 40-years-old and your job skill are the same as a high-school student (or a trained-monkey), that`s not the government`s fault. It means you`re basically useless.
  11. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:46 am
    I generally tend to vote Democrat, but I agree with Ron Paul on this.

    If you`re going to refuse to pay for healthcare (i`m talking about a healthy individual who can afford it, mind you), then YOU`RE the one making that choice, and YOU can accept the consequences. I shouldn`t have to pay for your choice.
  12. Profile photo of Django
    Django Male 30-39
    230 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:48 am
    The problem I have with these debates is the oversimplification of the problems and solutions to appeal to the masses. If our country wants to see real change...we need to get rid of all campaign financing. We have a "bought" congress.
  13. Profile photo of TKD_Master
    TKD_Master Male 18-29
    4794 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:48 am
    drat that. If i get in a serious accident I want you fine folks to pay for it god damn it! In fact, my plan is to just not tell the hospital any identifying information about me so they can`t bill me.
  14. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:51 am
    I`m Canadian so I have had a different view from birth.

    Some people like myself could never afford an extra 200-300 a month for health insurance. I already pay 400 for car and house insurance, plus the rest of the bills.

    Probably why they made the hypothetical man able to afford it and make him just ignore it. That`s not the case for some people, it`s not that we don`t want to have it, it`s just not in the budget.
  15. Profile photo of Buiadh
    Buiadh Male 30-39
    6739 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:53 am
    To be honest, that isn`t a fault of the Tea Party but of America in general.

    There is nothing wrong with a nationalised health system and in todays society it is needed.
  16. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:53 am

    And for his twin brother, also 30 but earning minimum wage. He rings $700 home a month to feed his kids. How does he afford that 200-300 policy his brother has?

    It`s easy to say "buy health insurance, idiot!" when you`ve got lots of money.
  17. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5436 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:54 am
    @patchouly -- "...a minimum wage that is below a livable wage..."

    He should do what other Americans do: Get a second job.

    I see no problem with people being responsible for themselves.
  18. Profile photo of Seneca22
    Seneca22 Female 18-29
    33 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:54 am
    I just want government mandated physical fitness and meal plans. I will gladly pay extra for a health care plan fueled by tax revenue; as long as everyone has to hit the tread mill! Lets get this health care going!
  19. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 7:59 am
    @patchouly Minimum wage TX is 7.25/hr. = conservativley $1160/mo. Health plan (looked up 30 yo male) w/ $5000 deductible $65/mo. So yea he would have to pay for dr. visits, say 300$/yr. so another 25$/mo to save for unexpected medical costs like a responsible citizen should. $90.00/mo will pay for this guys health care. He has $5000 debt if he needs $200,000 surgery, which could be paid off by month.

    So he will have to wait for a new laptop and flat screen. Oh well, thats life. Sounds like a responsible safe investment to me.

    Plus, who the hell works for min. wage? Stupid people and teenagers. Never even met anyone in college working for min. wage. Min. wage is temporary if you work hard.
  20. Profile photo of diylobotomy
    diylobotomy Male 18-29
    1832 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:00 am
    @elkingo "I see no problem with people being responsible for themselves."

    Yes. Exactly.
  21. Profile photo of
    kingdante87
    141 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:00 am
    I think this all stems back to the fundamental question: what is the purpose of government? If the government`s role isn`t to protect it`s citizens from danger, create rules (see red tape) that maintain fairness and safety, and to serve those of it`s citizens who are in poor and impoverished conditions then what is the purpose of government?

    It seems to me like Tea partiers just want to say "ok everyone here`s all your money back figure everything out for yourself. No more rules getting in the way of anything. No more equality." That to me sounds like the definition of anarchy.
  22. Profile photo of TruTenrMan
    TruTenrMan Male 30-39
    2553 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:03 am
    I agree with Ron Paul as well.

    If a moron doesn`t want to pay for insurance, that`s his risk. If he goes into a coma, his family goes to the community for help; not the f`ing government.
  23. Profile photo of asscobb
    asscobb Male 18-29
    24 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:06 am
    First of all don`t lump Dr Paul in with these tea baggers. He may have inspired the initial movement but now it`s just a bunch of angry white people laying down blanket criticism of anything and everything. Second of all, Dr Paul is right. Your health is your own responsibility, not the state`s.
  24. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:10 am
    @kingdante87 and anyone else who uses the equality argument. "One also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom." Alexis de Tocqueville - a frenchman
  25. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:15 am
    @asscobb I agree w/ you. The original Tea Party has been highjacked by the republicans and been made to seem like fringe crazy ppl by the media. The original message was the same as Dr. Paul`s. Liberal on social issues, Conservative on financial issues.
  26. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Tea Parties are for little girls with invisable friends.
  27. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:19 am
    @maddest - You would think a campaign manager, who believes in libertarian ideas, would have enough $$$ to pay for health insurance. Now his unwillingness to pay $65-$100/mo have left his mother with the debt. (I didn`t know debt was passed to parents, thought only spouses.)
  28. Profile photo of roariamadino
    roariamadino Male 18-29
    270 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:22 am
    guys an non-nice individual, im drating glad i live in the uk
  29. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:22 am
    Those who feared the death panels have become the death panels.

    Unrelated question: Could there be a system in place where people can opt in to pay certain taxes and receive benefits as a result?

    I`m no expert on economics, so correct me if this wouldn`t be a possibility, but couldn`t those who want free/cheaper government health care, let`s say a large amount of democrats, agree to pay higher taxes and receive either free, or much cheaper care, and those who don`t want to be taxed, most republicans, can do it through the traditional insurance company method.

    This sort of system could be applied to various aspects of society e.g. choose to pay more taxes for education -> get cheaper education for your kids, pay taxes towards arts and culture -> discounts at museums and theatres etc.

    Then more people would be satisfied and we can move on to more important issues. Genuine question here btw.
  30. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:28 am
    One rather large flaw in his logic.

    If you were in a position between "death" and "crippling debt due to medical bills", then you would choose crippling debt.

    Therefore we must assume that said person would choose to want treatment and deal with the bills later, regardless of the fact that they are in a coma now.

    The hospital must take care of him regardless of how much it will eventually cost because that is what the patient wants, it`s in the hippocratic oath.

    Nevertheless this example illustrates one of the crippling complications of a system without universal healthcare.

    When the choices are "get f*cked by an insurance company for the rest of my life" or "risk death with no help from our advanced medicine", I choose a different system altogether.
  31. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:31 am
    Oh, and I was assuming the coma lasts a certain limited amount of time, like a few months or something.

    If a person appears to be permanently comatose, that becomes a different matter where you involve family and such and decide their fate.
  32. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:31 am
    @LazyMe484

    I agree, but of course, when you try to argue something like this, you get called a socialist by an angry lynch mob who clearly have no idea what socialism is.
  33. Profile photo of srximus
    srximus Male 30-39
    183 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:34 am
    @asscobb

    But the state IS the people...so it IS states responsibility. US is the only western society without humane health system. Just pick one of existing and apply it to your system. It works already in the EU and Australia.
  34. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:37 am
    *bangs head on desk*
    I love how the top four comments as I load this are not even American.

  35. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:39 am
    I`m sorry but, that turned into complete redirection.
    He became tangential right after `church charity should pay for the uninsured.`
    Hmm...

    From that tangent, we are left to assume he means "we are charging too much for health care" but,
    he went all `Ted Stevens` and didn`t actually say it.
    Hmm...

  36. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:40 am
    Wow from an outside point of view, it seems that Americans really hate their poor. Why else would they try to kill them off by refusing treatment?
  37. Profile photo of Seneca22
    Seneca22 Female 18-29
    33 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:42 am
    @srximus @asscobb
    If the citizens of a local community or State deemed regulation proper, control would be enforced at the community or State level, rather than by the federal government according to the 10th amendment to the constitution.
  38. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:43 am
    They can`t refuse them treatment.
    They won`t refuse you treatment.

    They`ll just send you bills for years.
    Because, you know, poor people being in debt because they got sick is more honorable than just raising taxes a little and giving everyone healthcare. *eyeroll*
  39. Profile photo of Seneca22
    Seneca22 Female 18-29
    33 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:47 am
    And as current health care goes, they tried to control it and now it is no longer proper! I think we all agree it is necessary and should be made proper again, but do not make it federal government. Its role is NOT to dispense benefit directly to individuals or states (encouraging graft and corruption), but rather to act as a protective umbrella allowing the people and states to function freely in an environment of secure liberty.
  40. Profile photo of RedSpeed
    RedSpeed Male 18-29
    16 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:47 am
    @QualityJay Do you really think that tea party members are just republicans, I don`t think so try again! If you have not been to one then you don`t know what you are talking about. All that you know is what the news media is feeding you. We are fighting so you still have some money left from your paycheck.
  41. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:48 am

    madest - young, male, single, dies of "pneumonia".
    That means he had AIDS but the family doesn`t want to say so.
    He was probably uninsurable at the time.
  42. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:52 am

    Hispanics I`ve worked with don`t buy insurance. The just go to emergency rooms and pretend not to speak english. They never get billed.

    Older people and 16 year old single mothers all get medicare/medicaid.

    My point is that there already IS a national health care system.
    My question is how do I get in on this racket?
  43. Profile photo of RedSpeed
    RedSpeed Male 18-29
    16 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:54 am
    I don`t know what is going on with this site, but I go here for entertainment not politics. Please stop posting stuff about politics. I can do that on anther site.
  44. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:57 am
    @antagonizer -- We don`t hate our poor. There is a spirit of personal freedom that comes with a spirit of personal responsibility in this country. $300,000,000,000 given to CHARITY in 2008 which was one of our worst economic years. Guarantee that number would be higher w/ less taxes. That`s equal to $1,000/ person. The USA gives more than any other country. The gov. FORCING people to pay for other`s hardships is not noble. People choosing to give on thier own is.
  45. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:59 am
    @maddest - you supported Paul last time? You therefore know that, despite his christian beliefs. His belief in freedom would stop any thoughts of creating a "christian theocracy." Eyes opened? Paul is the only HONEST politician. He has always said what he believes and his voting record matches his rhetoric. Can you say that about ANY other politician?
  46. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2765 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:00 am
    I like the tax idea for free/cheap health insurance. However, you can only benefit from this IF YOU WORK!!! how about that? YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES TO RECEIVE BENEFITS! As you should with any other program. If you can`t work there are other programs in place to deal with that, but you do not get the benefit of a program that others pay into.
  47. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2765 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:01 am
    and before it`s brought up... I know thats how welfare (and others) work and I think thats bull crap too. Welfare should be something you pay back. Not "free" money. You should have to WORK to receive benefits.
  48. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:02 am
    @antagonizer -- We don`t hate our poor. There is a spirit of personal freedom that comes with a spirit of personal responsibility in this country. $300,000,000,000 given to CHARITY in 2008 which was one of our worst economic years. Guarantee that number would be higher w/ less taxes. That`s equal to $1,000/ person. The USA gives more than any other country. The gov. FORCING people to pay for other`s hardships is not noble. People choosing to give on thier own is.
  49. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:07 am
    Any sane person, looking at how our government has handled the myriad of entitlement programs ALREADY on the books, would outright reject letting it handle a single-payer health care system.

    The more government power there is, the more there is to be sold. You think Solyndra is bad, just wait until the government is handing out money for drugs, medical devices and treatment.
  50. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:17 am
    This did nothing to relieve my boredom. False advertising IAB >:(
  51. Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    796 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:22 am
    In response to Webz:
    "Unrelated question: Could there be a system in place where people can opt in to pay certain taxes and receive benefits as a result?"

    This option would be apropriate at the state level, not the federal level. The state of massachusetts already has a mandated health insurance program. Those who don`t like it are free to move to another state.

    Although, disagree with a state run insurance program, I recognize that our form of government is structured to allow it on the STATE level, not the federal level.
  52. Profile photo of motleystew
    motleystew Male 18-29
    48 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:25 am
    It is no wonder that the tea party is the most hated group in America now behind atheists.
  53. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6163 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:53 am
    motleystew-"the tea party is the most hated group in America"

    And yet, they are less hated that Obama and Congress;

    Tea party dissapproval rating: 28%
    Obama dissapproval rating: 55%
    Congress dissapproval rating: 81%

    Of course, YOU`RE going by `what groups liberals hate the most`. This does not, in any way, resemble reality or the outlook of the majority of Americans.
  54. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:53 am
    >>>They`ll just send you bills for years.
    Because, you know, poor people being in debt because they got sick is more honorable than just raising taxes a little and giving everyone healthcare. *eyeroll* <<<

    And just when is the last time you did the honorable thing and paid someone else`s medical bill?

    You seems to equate the government forcing one group of people to pay for the services rendered to another group of people as "honorable."

    The charge of the government is to provide for the common good not see to the needs of each and every individual.

  55. Profile photo of greenbasterd
    greenbasterd Male 18-29
    2377 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:54 am
    ummm what does this have to do with tea party.. and is this an anti Ron Paul clip?? im confused.. because Ron Paul is the last hope for your country douchbag... somebody`s been watching fox and the douchebag o`reilly to much.. lol halarious.. this isn;t a political website lets keep it that way
  56. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:03 am
    [quote">What`s Wrong With The Tea Party?. This.[/quote">

    You fu<king kidding me? The guy on the far left (Romney) past a precursor version of Obamacare, whereas the guy in the middle (Perry) tried to use imminent to expand the highway system. Both of them oppose gay rights the latter even got miffed when his statesodomy law got struck down. Ron Paul IS the ideal candidate no concern for "moral codes" and limited government involvement in our economy. Social liberal and fiscal conservative.
  57. Profile photo of bex753
    bex753 Male 40-49
    221 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:05 am
    Ron Paul may talk the talk but his actions and solutions don`t walk the walk
  58. Profile photo of asscobb
    asscobb Male 18-29
    24 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:17 am
    @Seneca22 I`m perfectly ok with local communities doing health care programs like that, but having one on a federal level is unconstitutional. Also the `individual mandate` of Obamacare is bullpoo. If they really felt that something needed to be done why not just create a government-run health insurance agency that people can opt in to if they want it?
  59. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:18 am
    Minimum wage is for kids who are in school and want to earn extra money on the side and get valuable work experience.


    Did your parents support you through college, or did you have to pay that debt later? School costs money (and time).

    It means you`re basically useless.

    Be that as it may, we as a society can`t simply refuse to support others. I`m for a safety net, but so long as it what it is and not some half-455ed attempt at some cushy palanquin social security tries to be.

    I have a part-time job above minimum wage but I work so few hours it might as well be. I hate paying into Social Security and Medicare former needs to be cut latter needs reform. I don`t ever intend to tap into OASDI EVER.
  60. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Tea Party is nothing new. They`re the ultra conservative religious extreme of the Republican Party. They`ve always been there. In the 80`s they called themselves the "Moral Majority".

    Same dance - differant tune.
  61. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:20 am
    I have a part-time job above minimum wage but I work so few hours it might as well be

    I forgot to mention that I`m also going to college (but hey it`s all in my profile). So yeah I was in your very shoes 20-30 years ago. Although I`m rather glad I got parents to support me.
  62. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:23 am
    Fact is that the people who opt out of health insurance now are a burden to everyone but moreso the insured.

    No one would have to "opt out" if what AvatarJohn pointed out didn`t happen.
  63. Profile photo of asscobb
    asscobb Male 18-29
    24 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:26 am
    @madest A degree in constitutional law isn`t needed. Many judges have already declared Obama unconstitutional.
  64. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:32 am
    I`ve said it before, I`ll say it again, Ron Paul is not a republican, he`s not a libertarian, he`s not a tea party member, he`s an anarchist.
  65. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:39 am
    "Many judges have already declared Obama unconstitutional."

    Your understanding of the constitution, and the law, and politics, is somewhat lacking.

    Every judge thus far who ruled upon the "unconstitutional" nature of Obama, has thus far been rebutted by other judges.

    Many more judges.

    This is why anecdotes, and itemizing, as I always say, are bad. You become completely uninformed, and regurgitate this kind of crap.

    4 federal courts that I know have ruled on it. Two have ruled it constitutional, two have ruled it unconstitutional. The other two ruling it entirely legal and constitutional.

    Now supreme court. "Many" means jack poo.
  66. Profile photo of NILE12
    NILE12 Male 18-29
    157 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:42 am
    of course
  67. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:46 am
    I`ve said it before, I`ll say it again, Ron Paul is not a republican, he`s not a libertarian, he`s not a tea party member, he`s an anarchist.
    Crakr, you are a d*ckbag. A fractally wrong d*ckbag who loves to pull a strawman any chance he gets.
  68. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:49 am
    he`s an anarchist

    I`ve said it before and I`ll say it again


    that`s bullpoo
  69. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:50 am
    @greenbasterd

    A large amount of teapartiers were invited to and present at this particular debate. They`re the ones shouting `YEAH!` in response to `should society let him die?` I didn`t post this link to bash Ron Paul.
  70. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:52 am
    Now supreme court.

    Who`ve recently said individual mandate is unconstitutional.
  71. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:52 am
    Baal: Obamacare will be found unconstitutional because of the commerce clause. The real way to fix health care is tort reform, lowering malpractice insurance, and making physician education more affordable.

    Thailand and India are courting `medical tourists` that can`t afford health care here in the US and those patients are getting superb care at a fraction of the cost it does here.
  72. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:53 am
    I didn`t post this link to bash Ron Paul.

    Oh thanks for clearing that up.
  73. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:01 am
    The real way to fix health care is tort reform, lowering malpractice insurance, and making physician education more affordable.

    All except the last one those skills are hard to develop. All-in-all though health insurers have exponentially more customers than patients. Sadly no thanks to our current system the profit generated by that difference is greatly diminished.
  74. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:08 am
    pooptart & cajun: His policies would lead to chaos and riots in the streets. He`d legalize all drugs by repealing all drug laws going back to 1877, gut our military and pull all military bases and troops out of every country, leave the UN, and end all foreign aid.

    That would lead to complete and utter chaos, not just here in America but worldwide as well. That`s why I say, with confidence, that he is an anarchist.
  75. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:08 am
    All-in-all though health insurers have exponentially more customers than patients.

    That`s the truth at any given time
  76. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:17 am
    He`d legalize all drugs by repealing all drug laws going back to 1877

    As if those laws have made anyone`s life better.

    gut our military and pull all military bases and troops out of every country,

    That`s an outright exaggeration.

    leave the UN, and end all foreign aid

    Oh puh-leeze the UN is the most corrupt organization in the world. It`s a wonder why we haven`t left already.
    The latter again is an exaggeration.
  77. Profile photo of hwkiller
    hwkiller Male 18-29
    490 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:18 am
    It`s a specific question about a broad problem.
    Ron Paul doesn`t like the high prices, or the way hospitals operate right now.
    He thinks much of the reason they are operating as such is due to regulation and poor tort policies.

    If there was no government intervention or regulation, then successful hospitals should be able to charge less, they`d have a better reputation, and people can take care of people, not the government.
    But that`s not the base we`re starting from.
  78. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:21 am
    That would lead to complete and utter chaos, not just here in America but worldwide as well.

    Slippery slope fallacy.

    Sheesh why is it so hard to find a social conservative who`s also fiscally conservative?
  79. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:23 am
    Thankfully though the UN is also grossly incompetent.
  80. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:24 am
    CrakrJak: "His policies would lead to chaos and riots in the streets."

    Yep, gonna call slippery slope on that one. That`s purely ridiculous.
  81. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:31 am
    Here is why national health care is unconstitutional:

    Amendment 10
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
  82. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:39 am
    The latter again is an exaggeration.

    Okay I admit that part`s wrong. But there`s a good reason for why we should. It hasn`t worked at all. Instead on several occasions it`s actually helped prop up dictators.
  83. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:41 am
    it`s not `slippery slope`, it`d be akin to jumping off a cliff without a parachute.
  84. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:43 am
    @QualityJay

    Don`t forget this part.


    "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes "
  85. Profile photo of Crabes
    Crabes Male 30-39
    1285 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:43 am
    freedom come with responsability and hazard. The bird in a cage will be taken care of and will be protected is whole life. But it will never be free.
  86. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:43 am
    Decent health insurance for a 30 year healthy young man is not $200 or $300 a month - it was at least double that 10 years ago. So the question is based on false parameters.

    And "a good job" in the U.S. provides health insurance in some form.

    And "good jobs" are disappearing faster than Snookie`s panties.

    The reality is that most of the people who do not have health insurance cannot afford to buy it and their employer - if they are employed, cannot afford to provide it either.
  87. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:47 am
    it`d be akin to jumping off a cliff without a parachute

    Bad analogy

    The consequences of your example are easy to prove.
    However earlier you stated the consequences without trying to prove how.
  88. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:50 am
    @cajun247

    NOT buying insurance is not commerce. Gov. may regulate commerce, not force people to participate in it.
  89. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:52 am
    Heureux

    You obviously haven`t even TRIED looking up health insurance. I found it today, in TX, $65/mo w/ $5000 deductible for 30 yr old male.

    I don`t believe it is the employers responsibility to provide insurance to their workers. It is a plus, a perk.
  90. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:00 pm
    Choice comes with responsibility. I shouldn`t have to pay for somebody else`s well being because he`s too stupid to make the right choices.
  91. Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    796 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:03 pm
    The common arguement for Obummer care is an abuse of the interstate commerce clause. The concept they work under for the mandate is that everyone will use the health care system at some point and therefore must carry insurance becuase it affects interstate commerce. Following that same arguement, the US should mandate the entire world`s trade system because every transaction that occurs outside of the US affects the US by keeping revenue out of the government`s coffers. why can`t we regulate Chinese farmers selling food to other Chinese people? We sell food and eat, therefore it affects our commerce and should be regulated, right?

    NO

    Obummercare IS unconstitutional. Using activist judges to pursue an illegal course of action does not justify it.
    Unfortunately, it may take full exercise of the 2nd ammendment to get things back in line.
    I hope the Tea Party movement succeeds to avoid that outcome.
  92. Profile photo of Protagoris
    Protagoris Male 18-29
    38 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    When he talks about how the hospital never turned anyone away, I`m for sure it also wrote off all those unpaid bills on their taxes, which ends up being picked up by the Tax payer. That`s how we, as tax payers, end up paying more of our taxes to health care than we do by subsidizing insurance, or even paying for it with a single-payer system. We end up picking up the bill because no hospital can turn away a dying person. As they shouldn`t.
  93. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:13 pm
    Cajun: Anyone with some good old common sense would know that legalizing every drug, known to man, in America, all at once, would be a disaster the likes of which would make the Japanese tsunami and hurricane Katrina pale in comparison. the `proof` of unintended consequences are just to numerous to mention in a 1000 character limit.

    But here are a few things to consider. What would happen to the FDA ? How would you know that your prescription isn`t some fake drug from China ? How could the police ever justify DUI laws ? How many junkies would die within the first few months ?

    Chew on those questions awhile.
  94. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:14 pm
    Whats wrong with this?
  95. Profile photo of tobyvictory
    tobyvictory Male 70 & Over
    406 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:21 pm
    insane_ai, if you want to make a valid point don`t use childish slang. Soon as you stooped to a 7 year old`s level calling The Health Care Act "obummer care" you lost all credibility.
  96. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:23 pm
    @toby:

    The same can be said for the people who call the Tea Party, "Teabaggers"
  97. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:29 pm
    I think what Paul was getting at was that society is much wider than government. Government has a limited function and a specific purpose. It`s not the governments job to interject itself into these situations, but society at large which includes churches, local communities, charities, doctors and a myriad of other organizations and institutions that do have a moral obligation to help save his life, if that`s what he wants, and are usually in a much better position to do so than the government. In short, society and government are not the same things and while government should divest itself of these responsibilities, society is intimately bound up with them. While I may or may not necessarily agree with that conception of government I think it`s a reasonable and ethical position to have. Paul is not contradicting himself by arguing both that government should not pay for it and that society should not let him die.
  98. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:29 pm
    It`s just too bad that the hick rednecks of the Tea Party base made it look simultaneously perverse and ridiculous. Now that it`s been pretty much taken over by the social conservatives from the fiscally minded people who started the movement they lack the intelligence or the desire to understand what Paul is talking about. They just want typical social conservative talking-points about gays and religion. The fact that Michelle Bachmann is their mascot is proof enough of the depths to which the Tea Party has fallen.
  99. Profile photo of johnkelley
    johnkelley Male 18-29
    59 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:31 pm
    yeah, you are right "Webz", the government should pay for that persons bad choice of not carrying major medical that costs $50 or $60 a month that would cause this $400,000 major accident to cost him $10,000 or so. This isn`t wrong! The Tea Party (and many more who believe this that aren`t Tea Party members) is correct! He should have to pay for it himself or rely on the Private Sector to bring people who want to donate to help him. It is NOT the Governments responsibility to take care of everyone who makes bad choices. The only thing wrong is that YOU think it is.
  100. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    @CrakrJak

    Funny because Ron Paul has some too and it`s a bit of a leap to say that a statistically significant portion of the population is suddenly going to start doing drugs on top of those who currently do when they are legalized.

    As for the latter part of your comment we have means for testing for all sorts of narcotics. Private businesses themselves can develop the means for determining real and fake. Even when (yes I`m that bold) the DEA and its list are repealed, the states will still have laws criminalizing such substances.
  101. Profile photo of RPGillespie
    RPGillespie Male 13-17
    217 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:38 pm
    madest - the constitution does not give the government the right to tell you what can or can`t put into your body, but bills that have been passed as laws do. Our government is built on the constitution, our government does not = the constitution.

    That`s like complaining that you can`t shoot yourself in the foot in Call of Duty even though the underlying game engine doesn`t prohibit it -- the programmers added that "law" in later as they were building on the core engine.
  102. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:38 pm
    @QualityJay

    Exactly

    That`s why you need the 10th amendment AND the commerce clause. I wasn`t disagreeing with you.
  103. Profile photo of Crabes
    Crabes Male 30-39
    1285 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:43 pm
    nothing can stop a junky for getting is shot and its easy too get any drug on the black market anyway. The are not really illegal, they are part of the system, you just choose who control it... eithe the gouvernemnt or the mafia.The war on drug only sucking up money and create a state of fear trough the world.
  104. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:43 pm
    Whats wrong with this?

    It`s the crowd not Paul.
    Although I like to call them teabaggers because 66% of them believe that OASDI is worth the cost. Then again maybe I should just refer to that portion as such.
  105. Profile photo of RPGillespie
    RPGillespie Male 13-17
    217 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:46 pm
    I find nothing wrong with this. The government isn`t supposed to babysit us and make sure we are fed, clothed and comfortable. The man made a choice, and now he has to live with the consequences. If I choose not to wear my seatbelt and I get in a crash, is it not fair and just that I suffer the consequences? The government is there to create a safe and stable society in which (ideally) we can live and govern ourselves, not to hover over our heads righting every wrong and taking away all consequences for any action.
  106. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    6163 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:48 pm
    Cajun247-"Did your parents support you through college"

    What part of `Worked my way through college` did you not understand? (I supported myself. I didnt go to college immediately. I worked ( to save up money so I could go to college.)

    Cajun247-"or did you have to pay that debt later?"

    What part of `Worked my way through college` did you not understand? (I worked hard for, and earned, a partial scholorship. The rest I worked for. I didn`t take out any loans.)

    Cajun247-"School costs money (and time). "

    What part of `Worked my way through college` did you not understand? (as mentioned above, I earned the money and put in the time)

    It`s entirely possible for someone to put themselves through college or technical school. (Of course, it takes putting of the goofing off period and the new car.)
  107. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 12:57 pm
    @RPGillespie

    I think the government should provide nothing more than a bare minimum to those who really need it. I complain a lot about OASDI because of the way it`s been handled.
  108. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    @MeGrendel

    Just making sure. :/
  109. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:01 pm
    No they didn`t Madest. Cite that.
  110. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:16 pm
    That`s what I thought.
  111. Profile photo of crackyhoss
    crackyhoss Male 18-29
    254 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:20 pm
    wait to cut him off... he`s the only candidate that makes any sense whatsoever.
  112. Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    796 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:20 pm
    The Tea Party started with a campaign to "Tea Bag the white house". This meant to mail tea bags to the white house as a civil means of protest. It was Rachel Maddow who started the teabagger innuendo. Google it. There`s plenty to read.
  113. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:27 pm
    I saw something with Keith Olberman, and dismissed it as a slanted lie. So that being said, you still need to cite that.

    ALSO, about the LMGTFY joke. You made the accusation. It is up to you, not me, to back it up.
  114. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:27 pm
    So suck my black rooster Madest.
  115. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:32 pm
    insane AI wins. Madest got served. Want some fries with that?
  116. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    Okay, so what you basically said, was the the Tea Party wanted to Teabag Washington. Not once in that citation did a tea party member call themselves a teabagger.

    Also, I have never called it "Obummercare".
  117. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:43 pm
    Now. Concede, and move on.
  118. Profile photo of Crabes
    Crabes Male 30-39
    1285 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:49 pm
    was it used teabag? becasue if not then this thing is totally lame. I would love to receive a gift for my morning tea.
  119. Profile photo of QualityJay
    QualityJay Male 18-29
    303 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:52 pm
    Who cares where the term teabagger came from? That doesn`t even matter. Better than teabaggee though :)
  120. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:52 pm
    "YOU insisted that "obummercare" was somehow retaliation for "teabagger"."

    No I didn`t.
  121. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 1:56 pm
    Toby: if you want to make a valid point don`t use childish slang. Soon as you stooped to a 7 year old`s level calling The Health Care Act "obummer care" you lost all credibility.

    Me: The same can be said for the people who call the Tea Party, "Teabaggers"

    ---------- ---------------- ------------ ------

    This is not even close to what you just said.

    Liberals call tea party members "teabaggers" to disparage them. Conservatives call Obmamcare "obummercare" for the same reaosn. That`s all I was saying, and that`s clear. drat man. Take a pill.
  122. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 2:09 pm
    Also, if we didn`t chime in on people`s conversations, then these threads would be about 4 posts long. Debate is healthy.
  123. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 2:24 pm
    wow... that was short!
  124. Profile photo of Mister_C
    Mister_C Male 18-29
    663 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 2:31 pm
    I feel stupid. I can`t quite work out which of them is pro-NHS and against.
  125. Profile photo of Insanity_cow
    Insanity_cow Female 18-29
    145 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 3:28 pm
    You know the only thing he`s saying is that people should find a way to help each other and help themselves. Forget that he said anything about churches. Communities used to help each other. He`s right we should wait for the government to hand us free health care. We need to man up as a country and start taking care of each other.
  126. Profile photo of Insanity_cow
    Insanity_cow Female 18-29
    145 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 3:29 pm
    * we should not wait
  127. Profile photo of insane_ai
    insane_ai Male 30-39
    796 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 3:30 pm
    I still agree with Ron Paul.
  128. Profile photo of sethmccary
    sethmccary Male 18-29
    208 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 3:49 pm
    Tell it like it is Ron
  129. Profile photo of knight3000
    knight3000 Male 40-49
    25 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 5:51 pm
    There is nothing wrong with the Tea Party.
  130. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    I`d agree if it were a fair market value on health care.
    But conglomerate hmo`s have driven the prices up beyond what the average person can afford for an essential service. As essential as electricity or water, which is regulated by the government.

    Meanwhile, we could get quality medication through Canada at a fraction of the cost, but the republicans have outlawed doing that as it cut into the pharmeceutical profits.

    Since the health care market is a finacial rape-factory for people with no competative options for the customer, I think we need to have a national health care system.

    I`ve done a 180 on this. I didn`t used to like the idea, but the situation is getting worse each year. It`s time has come.

    That or shoot all the politicians.
  131. Profile photo of lastrogue
    lastrogue Male 18-29
    176 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 6:38 pm
    Tea party bad, Ron Paul good. I would not associate Ron Paul with the Tea Party. I could be mislead on that, but in my mind, however ef`d up it is, I do not associate Ron Paul with Michelle Bachmann and her co-hearts, not even close. Right here what Ron Paul says is exactly right, not wrong, Right. I`m going to flat out say that if you`re looking for government handouts to take care of you when you weren`t smart enough to buy your own insurance that`s you`re own damn fault hopefully you live in a community that will help you and take care of you. If not, it`s sad but it`s life and death. we all go through it one way or another.
  132. Profile photo of fuzzed
    fuzzed Male 18-29
    48 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 6:42 pm
    Why is this something that is wrong with the Tea Party? Lord forbid the government allow you to take risks with your own life and pay for the decisions that you make.
  133. Profile photo of aroc91
    aroc91 Male 18-29
    182 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 6:50 pm
    That last part of the question was a total guilt trip. That was just an attempt at a setup to make him look like a bad person.

    If you don`t want insurance (which is an entirely different situation than not being ABLE to have insurance for whatever reason), that`s your own problem.
  134. Profile photo of Viking864
    Viking864 Male 40-49
    1444 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 6:56 pm
    It`s not the conglomerate HMO`s that have driven the prices, it the lazy fat *sses who refuse to take care of themselves like loose weight, exercise and eat healthy. Cost is high because demand is high, it`s just that simple.
  135. Profile photo of lauriloo
    lauriloo Female 40-49
    1803 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 8:09 pm
    "Decent health insurance for a 30 year healthy young man is not $200 or $300 a month - it was at least double that 10 years ago. So the question is based on false parameters. "

    I am self-employed and pay for my own health insurance. I`m 47, don`t smoke and my monthly premium is only $188. A high $7500 deductible but I get a yearly checkup, an additional yearly office visit, $10 prescriptions and a few more cheap things. Most people can give up a luxury or two and be able to afford that. I think there should be a mandatory minimum of medical coverage required of every employed person and basic healthcare for everyone that doesn`t cover elective surgery. That 30 year old guy should get basic life-saving/pain management care and have to pay a big bill for anything more. It`s irresponsible to walk around with no health care when you can afford it.
  136. Profile photo of gbrzeatetee
    gbrzeatetee Male 30-39
    174 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:26 pm
    That`s from the same people who insisted on torturing Terri Schiavo till death.
  137. Profile photo of SilverThread
    SilverThread Male 30-39
    3431 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 9:35 pm
    If I engage in risky behavior, am I not solely culpable for the outcome of those risks? Do I not solely benefit from their reward?
  138. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 10:04 pm
    But conglomerate hmo`s have driven the prices up beyond what the average person can afford
    It wasn`t the HMOs who drove up the cost of insurance; it was the government. You can`t buy just basic, high-deductible catastrophic health insurance anymore. Now every special-interest provider group with a lobbyist and some campaign cash to spread around has gotten their services included in the minimum mandatory requirements for any policy you can buy. Now, whether you want it or not, you have to pay for drug rehab, alcohol treatment, smoking cessation, abortion, sex-change operations, marriage counseling, holistic medicine, homeopathy, acupuncture, psychological counseling, massage therapy, cosmetic surgery, tattoo removal, and the list goes on and on. That`s why it costs $300 a month to a insure a healthy young adult, and that`s why many of them choose to go without insurance.
  139. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:19 pm
    "Lord forbid the government allow you to take risks with your own life and pay for the decisions that you make."
    Because in this economy, all the unemployed people are poor by choice. What the heck, they won`t get sick and if they do it`s their own fault. What the hell were they thinking when they got diabetes? Clearly they could have suicided and avoided all those age-related illnesses. I mean if you can`t afford to grow old they have no business doing it! They should have saved for their retirements...even if it`s happened 30 years ahead of schedule and their 401Ks all evaporated.

    Possibly the Republicans have the most cost efficient plan for unemployment and the underinsured. ~ Let them die off.
  140. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    "If I engage in risky behavior, am I not solely culpable for the outcome of those risks?"
    You`re right. Women who got cervical cancer totally deserve it for having sex in first place. You play you pay, right? And women who broke with their natural use and didn`t have children, they`re at increased risk of breast cancer. Well they shoulda thought of that before deciding not to have babies.

    coughMORONcough
  141. Profile photo of Izaq
    Izaq Male 30-39
    173 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:24 pm
    Funny thought that letting the government run hospitals etc. introduces bureaucracy.

    Because all the hundreds of thousands of lawyers arguing about who should pay the bill, and the hundreds of thousands of people working in insurance companies ... they just don`t count as bureaucracy.
  142. Profile photo of RPGillespie
    RPGillespie Male 13-17
    217 posts
    September 15, 2011 at 11:44 pm
    "You`re right. Women who got cervical cancer totally deserve it for having sex in first place. You play you pay, right? And women who broke with their natural use..."

    He was referring to the scenario in which the guy consciously chooses not to pay for health insurance. The examples you gave were crap since the people in them weren`t consciously discarding some safety device. A better example would be as follows: If a man chooses not to wear his seat belt and then gets into an accident; is it fair and just that he die? Yes, it is.
  143. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:14 am

    Sorry if I`m harsh, but I detest the growing popularity of this concept that people who are sick somehow deserve to suffer if they are also poor at the same time. And people {generally} don`t buy health insurance because they can`t afford it.

    Back on topic with the tea baggers... most of them are older. They`re getting, or are close to getting, their SSI checks and medicare/medicaid. But the are hell bent to make sure no one else gets health care. WTH is that about?
  144. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:56 am
    auburnjunky: You`ll never get madest to concede anything, the only thing you can get him to do is walk away in a huff and not come back into the conversation. Having made him do that, a few times, I can safely say that if he doesn`t comeback and say "Yes Way" or something similar, then you have won.
  145. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 1:07 am
    Gerry: It`s hard enough for people on disability or social security to find a doctor willing to take medicare & medicaid.

    Why ? because medicare & medicare sets their own prices for treatments at a large discount, many doctors aren`t willing to take that kind of pay cut.

    In some cases what doctors receive from medicare and medicaid patients is not enough to pay their large malpractice insurance bill, so they in turn have to raise what they charge their regular insurance patients to cover their costs.

    It already takes a month or more for many medicare patients to see their doctor for treatment. Therefore, adding more people to the medicare rolls means even longer waits to see a doctor, fewer doctors willing to take the pay cut, and higher insurance rates for everyone else.

    If we had tort reform we could force insurance companies to lower their malpractice insurance rates, thus lowering costs across the board.
  146. Profile photo of November_Rai
    November_Rai Male 30-39
    319 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 2:19 am
    That`s a lovely utopia he`s talking about. It will never happen.
  147. Profile photo of bullswool
    bullswool Male 30-39
    47 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 4:24 am
    Is it just me or do you think we are watching the twilight of the USA... kinda like ancient Greece or Rome?
    In all seriousness the last 10-25 years has seen a shift anyway from US.
    In the 80`s USA was... well... the friggin US of A. Unbeatable!
    Kinda different these days, yeah?
  148. Profile photo of trippyhippy9
    trippyhippy9 Male 18-29
    559 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 4:50 am
    Instead of making us pay for other peoples expensive medical care, he would make medical care more affordable.
  149. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 5:15 am
    I wish a certain mod would stop bitching about certain peoples right to express their opinion.
  150. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2343 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 6:12 am
    Governments assume more and more control over it`s citizens, while granting themselves- and big business- more freedoms. While limiting citizens more on the one hand, they impose a greater responsibility on citizens with the other.
  151. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 6:20 am
    If we had tort reform we could force insurance companies to lower their malpractice insurance rates, thus lowering costs across the board.

    I think what would be better is if we had more practical means weeding out the "legitimate" from the "frivolous" claims.
  152. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 6:54 am
    Clearly I`m not stopping you. Speak away ingrate.

    <grabs bullhorn>
    <aims it at madest`s ear>

    I see you trollin`
    I hatin`
    I clearly see that you bein` nasty
  153. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 7:58 am

    @ madest ~ those `freebies` you speak of are not so free. Most people paid taxes into those programs before they were ever on them. So, as a consumer who bought in, they have every right to bitch about it.

    The exception there is illegal aliens of course but you already know you don`t wanna get a hater like me started on that topic.
  154. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 8:16 am
    Whatever. If he had insurance like a normal person he wouldn`t need medicaid and we wouldn`t need national healthcare. The problem with these teabaggers is they`re willing to cut benefits for future versions of their irresponsible selves because they know their benefits are safe (as CJ has pointed out in the past).
    He`s not the only ingrate on the planet. There are teabaggers on welfare for christs sake. The madness of these jerkoffs knows no bounds.
  155. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 8:39 am
    madest: I used to have insurance, unfortunately when people become disabled and can`t work it`s impossible to continue to afford insurance, especially when the government takes it`s sweet time, 3 months or more, to make a first decision, then if you are denied, which is standard practice now, you have to retain a lawyer and appeal the decision.

    I know some people that have been denied up to 3 times, only to finally get disability a year later. People have lost their houses, cars, and everything they own waiting on the benefits they deserve.

    Could you honestly say that you could weather 12 months without income and still afford insurance ? And I`m not talking about the cheaper, while you are still working insurance either, COBRA insurance is expensive as hell.

    I sure hope you never have to live through that experience, it`s depressing and degrading, and it`s not the way citizens should be treated by their government.
  156. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 8:48 am
    OK fine CJ. Stop complaining about it. It makes the people who afford you your care angry. If there were teabaggers 10years ago you`d be sitting on the curb waiting for a sympathetic doctor to give a crap about you because that`s the world the teabaggers dream of. STFU and be happy other people are working to support your disabled ass because there`s no way in hell you haven`t used up every last cent of your contribution into the system.

    BTW: I don`t think your medicaid or peoples welfare or social security are the reasons America is broke. But they have conned the less intelligent of the nation into thinking that exact thing. Open your eyes for crying out loud.
  157. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 8:48 am
    madest: I`m not an `ingrate` either, nor did I ever call the people that received social security, before me, ungrateful either.

    What I`m saying is the system is broken and needs fixing, adding more people into an already broken system is insane. The system needs to be fixed first before you heap millions more people into it, and tort reform would go a long long way toward that goal.

    But go ahead with your inane polemic about me, it just goes to show that you liberals have no viable solutions to the problem other than to toss everyone, except the rich, into the same broken system.
  158. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 8:53 am
    madest: Clearly you can`t say `STFU` and `Speak away` at me and not be contradicting yourself, it`s irrational and makes you seem like you are living up to you own moniker, madest.
  159. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 8:58 am

    @ madest, do you have any idea the cost of COBRA? I`ve been unemployed a long time now. No, I don`t collect unemployment checks. But company health insurance can triple in cost when you`re not working.

    So with no income, and the price skyrocketing, how in your wisdom do you propose I get health insurance? Don`t say "get a job" `cause I`ve been trying that. I guess I`m just too stupid to figure out how to pay $300 per month cobra payment with $0 income.
  160. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Wait!.... OMG!

    Are CrakrJak and I on the same side?

    Miracles DO happen.
  161. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 9:02 am
    madest: "...they have conned the less intelligent of the nation into thinking...(America is broke)"

    Did you just skip over the last debt ceiling debate or are you just rolling ? Our country`s spending now exceeds it`s income. Link Now please tell me how that isn`t being `Broke` ?
  162. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 10:53 am

    madest "If he had insurance like a normal person "
    My point is "normal person"s can`t afford insurance anymore.
    As for retirment funds, even the people who looked to the future and did that ended up with nothing as the market manipulators destroyed their investments {while making billions themselves}. So yeah, we need SSI, too.
  163. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 11:23 am
    madest: I`m against Obamacare, yes. and no, I`ve never called it obummercare. By what ever name it`s given it`s a disaster about to happen and most people agree on that now.

    The reason SS is a `ponzi scheme` is that in order for it to support itself, without extra funding, it would take an ever increasing younger population. The baby boomers were able to support their parents just fine, but now the baby boomers are retiring and there just is not enough people working to support it.

    If SS was means tested, and seriously rich people don`t need it, that would help. Raising the retirement age would also help, since people are living longer that`s not much to ask. But it`s also going to take some serious reforms like tort reform, the time of lawyers using the legal system like it`s a lottery should end now.
  164. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 11:32 am
    madest: "I don`t think your medicaid or peoples welfare or social security are the reasons America is broke."

    What are, then?

    Not only are entitlements the largest portion of the budget (and have been for quite some time), but they are going to get even bigger as the Boomers age. SS will explode as more retire, and Medicare will explode as more age and need care and drugs.
  165. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 11:43 am

    The reason SSI is broke is because the policians {All Parties} kept spending the money on other things. Those tax dollars were supposed to be program specific. Held in account until paid out for SSI only. But the retards in Washington spent it elsewhere and now, after they stole the money, they blame SSI as if it were some AMWAY pyramid scheme.
  166. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 11:54 am
    madest: Eventually willing investors are hard to come by, the money pool runs dry and everyone remaining gets burnt.

    Younger people are realizing that SS will go broke and more of them are becoming 1099 employees, which doesn`t contribute to SS at all.

    Do you believe it`s ok to make the false promise to young people that SS will be there for them in 30 or 40 years ? Evidently you do.

    That`s why it`s a ponzi scheme, as it`s constructed right now.
  167. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    The people who don`t pay into it (1099ers) don`t receive it.

    Irrelevant

    The ratio of workers to retirees is shrinking that`s why we`re seeing diminishing returns.
  168. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:11 pm
    madest: Of course they (1099ers) don`t, but they also don`t pay for the people getting it currently either.
  169. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:13 pm
    workers to retirees

    Specifically those who have paid into the system.
  170. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:23 pm
    @madest

    It was started when far more people who could pay into than there would be people eligible for it.
  171. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:24 pm
    Now that`s not the case.
  172. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:50 pm
    The government doesn`t control population booms or busts. That`s a cycle that was taken into account when Social security was introduced. The mistake they made was spending the money. Recipients shouldn`t be punished for their bad judgement. There are however things that can be done to make SS more solvent. Means testing comes to mind. Millionaires should be exempted from receiving SS. If they somehow go broke after they retired then they should be allowed to apply for SS. Certainly doesn`t need to be scrapped. It`s a valuable benefit for the people who help America grow.
  173. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    1099 - contract labor.
    The employer doesn`t pay the tax... you do when you file the return.

    You fill out a schedule SE to calculate the self employment tax, which is social security and medicare, and transfer the number from that form to your 1040
  174. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 2:05 pm
    Um - I don`t see anything wrong with this. Actually, I would expect better from you, whoever actually captioned this video.

    (Not a Tea Party candidate by the way, for the umpteenth time.)
  175. Profile photo of Sonsglow
    Sonsglow Male 18-29
    201 posts
    September 16, 2011 at 6:43 pm
    This is why we need mandated health care, because people are selfish as drat. Newsflash, Ron Paul, people stop buying into insurance and the medical system and doctors are out of a job, society degrades to one where people don`t live long and are unhealthy whilst alive, especially in densely urban areas.
  176. Profile photo of Aedran
    Aedran Female 18-29
    295 posts
    September 17, 2011 at 6:13 am
    Two boys shout `yeah` and that`s what`s got your panties in a not?

    Yup. Sure you never joked about death before. Dark humor is disgusting, and Webz will have no part in it.

    Here`s a question: Why should I take care of John Doe if he decides not to pay for his health insurance? I paid for mine. I protected my family. But the government comes in and insists I have to fund for John`s care. That`s less money to my family. It hurts my family, not John`s. John had every opportunity to go out and find affordable health care. He could have easily signed up for an indemnity plan, where you set a cap on what you pay each year, especially since he didn`t think he`d get sick.

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