States Are Trying To Ditch `No Child Left Behind`

Submitted by: DuckBoy87 5 years ago in
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44693695/ns/today-education_nation/t/majority-states-lining-ditch-no-child-left-behind/

Some say it is counterproductive to teach by the test. What do you think, I-A-B? Good or will this bring on dumber kids?
There are 76 comments:
Male 201
Ask any educator whose head isn`t firmly planted up the fundamentalist, extreme right-wing ass of people like George Bush about NCLB and they will unanimously preach to you about what a detriment it is to our education system. Rich, in-control conservatives love education the way it is because it helps maintain the class system they need to perpetuate their influence and wealth; less affluent, "middle-class" conservatives love it because anyone who is a gun-toting, Bible-thumping conservative obviously knows what is best. Those goddamn liberals with their social welfare programs and human rights are a bunch of homogay, atheist bleeding hearts who think that humans have effects on the earth like heating the atmosphere! Nutjobs!
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Male 3,482
[quote]"You are OBLIGED to pay taxes."

This is untrue.

If you do not pay taxes, the government uses force to incarcerate you. If you don`t give it, they take it.[/quote]
Well, from the looks of it the American education system was failing LONG before NCLB, considering that you don`t know your words either.

THAT`S THE F*CKING DEFINITION OF OBLIGED, DUMBASS.

"Make (someone) legally or morally bound to an action or course of action."

So, indeed you are OBLIGED to pay taxes.

Every day, when you conservatives post, it just proves more and more the statistic that liberals tend to be more intelligent.
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Male 10,339
"You are OBLIGED to pay taxes."

This is untrue.

If you do not pay taxes, the government uses force to incarcerate you. If you don`t give it, they take it.
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Female 154
I`m too tired to skim through all the comments right now, but let me say...I hate the standardized testing and NCLB.

As a product of it, it gave me a skewed view of `writing` all through high school and instead of teaching me how to pump out well written essays for college, I was being taught how to condense an essay into five paragraphs and make it as simple and effective as possible.

As someone going into teaching...Let me just set up a scenario. You`re in a classroom where the majority of the students are two grades below reading level (meaning a third grader is reading at a first grade level). You have about eight?ish months to get them up to a third grade level in order for them to get a proficient score on the test. You have to schedule your curriculum around that fact, and as such, your students miss out on everything "unimportant" that isn`t on the test. It`s poop.
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Male 546
All we need to teach is political correctness, environmentalism, and self esteem.

Oh... and that Teachers are underpaid, and Unions rock.

There, no child left behind.

That is all the Proletariat need to know.
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Male 541
""Slave" is defined as: "a person held in servitude as the chattel of another" A man who works, but his money taken away by force--is a slave."

Alright, let`s get technical up in this bitch.

1. Paying taxes towards education does NOT make you the `chattel of another`. Everyone pays taxes, or at least should be paying them. Arguably some should pay more than they currently do, some maybe less, but everyone pays `em, and since EVERYONE pays them, NOBODY individually possesses you because while you pay for everyone`s child`s education, everyone pays for your child`s education too. Nobody is in a position of ownership.

2. I would change what you say to `A man who works, but all his money and possessions, or the required money and possessions for a comfortable and free life are taken away by force, AND HE IS NOT OBLIGED TO GIVE THEM UP, is a slave.`

You are OBLIGED to pay taxes. To claim it`s slavery is nonsensical.
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Female 2
Its good coming from a student who was subject to this act for most of my education. Teachers would just teach the skills to pass the test and the least amount information possible and its going to hold the future work force back
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Male 98
This was a horrible program that was administered differently for every state.
It`s about time.
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Male 207
No child left behind was a pathetic way to reduce standards so more kids could slip by.
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Male 1
It has been replaced by Obama`s new "No Child Left A Dime" program.
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Male 38,455

Department of Education is a waste of money.
Abolish it.
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Male 2,796
First off, testing does not measure intelligence... they measure how well you take tests.

Second, they are thinking about it all wrong. We don`t need to worry about how many kids we have that are smart... we need to worry about how many kids we have, period. STOP BREEDING FOR dratS SAKE!
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Male 17
As a product of the NCLB system, I have to say, this is the right choice. The test isn`t an "unbiased" look at taking a test - rather they hammered us with certain skills in elementary school (Like the "hamburger method" of writing), which was tactics we were immediatly told to ditch up entering Jr. High and High School. More standardized testing is more time wasted.
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Male 1,341
Onoffonoffon nailed it.
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Male 1,231
You want reasons why capitalism wouldn`t work for education?
1) The class divide would widen exponentially; i.e, the rich would get richer and the poor would get poorer.
2)As was mentioned earlier, you would have a choice, but it would essentially be a choice between Tescos or wall mart; both as bad as each other.
3)Choice is a very deceptive concept. You have the choice to go to a bank and spend 30 years repaying a mortgage...or you don`t own your own home. Where else do you go? Capitalism ultimately ends in being completely cornered, which, no matter what you argue you never are with a government as it is a democracy. "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”. Now please, listen to the voices of your peers and accept it; Capitalism would be a bad decision where education is concerned. Maybe in a few years time you`ll realise that the `free market` is a bitter oxymoron.
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Male 14,826
Go look up Average IQ by Country and scroll down. WAY down.
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Male 3,482
Oh, and as for your "choice" bullsh*t:

You DO have a choice of governments.

You can get the f*ck out of the country. And stay out.

Problem is, governments are like corporations: you can either deal with all the mediocre ones that you don`t like, pay out the ass to get the good ones you do like (which, more often than not, still aren`t perfect), or go without.

I hear Somolia`s pretty nice for those who prefer to do without...

I don`t really know of any that match up perfectly with your criteria, but hey, that`s any business... I mean, government.
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Male 15,832
While we`re ditching NCLB, why don`t we ditch the entire Department of Education? To call this bureaucratic nightmare a giant steaming pile of $#!+ is an insult to giant steaming piles of $#!+. It`s blatantly unconstitutional, it wastes $billions, and it makes everything it touches worse. Just fire every single employee, degauss the hard drives, and auction off the buildings, furniture, and equipment.

True, NCLB was enacted under Bush as another of his misguided efforts to "get along" with Democrats. However, NCLB was the creation of two Democrats: Ted Kennedy and Education Secretary Rod Paige. There`s nothing conservative about it.
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Male 3,482
[quote]"if the computer and electronic industry was run by profit-makers, there would be no service because they just care about money! Computer technology would take a back seat to corporate greed!"[/quote]
Well, Apple pretty much is that problem incarnate... And Microsoft is only getting worse anymore... But I digress.
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Male 3,482
[quote] For one thing, double-standard much? "Of COURSE, corporations are corrupt and greedy; and of COURSE, the government are benevolent overlords thinking only about the welfare of its citizens."[/quote]
You`ve also made this argument before, and it`s flawed.

Look at what the two are founded around:

A government is funded by, controlled by, and is meant to benefit THE PEOPLE. EVERYONE. A few bad seeds can f*ck it up, and have been for many years especially here in America, but in the end it`s founded on the primary goals of keeping as much of the ENTIRE POPULATION secure and (relatively) happy as possible.

A corporation is founded by a group of people who intend to benefit THEMSELVES and a GROUP OF SHAREHOLDERS (maybe). A "benevolent" company is still, first and foremost, about profit, and will throw anyone and everyone under the bus if they have to to make their next dollar.
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Male 3,482
[quote] That`s similar to slavery.[/quote]
You`ve said this sh*t before, and you need to get your vocabulary straight.

It`s EXTORTION, you moron, not slavery.

Not much better, but I felt like putting a little know-it-all in his place.

EXTORTION is taking money from people via abuse of authority.

Slavery is what the rest of us would be to the rich if we allowed Capitalism to run everything.

Working for dirt cheap, barely living wages, while doing back-breaking work. And too dumb to realize that it`s wrong.
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Male 3,482
[quote]I mean capitalism and the free market as the ONLY means of getting an education.[/quote]
The rich kids get a better education, they excel for the rest of their life, they get richer.

The poor kids get a sh*tty education because they couldn`t afford it in the first place, they get left behind for the rest of their life, they get poorer.

The class divide widens, and we end up back where we were in the Middle Ages: The powerful, intelligent, and wealthy upper-crust is in control, has everything they need, and the rest of us all rot in the mud working for them, too dumb to realize that we`re being paid Mexican wages for American work.

All because the kids whose parents couldn`t afford to send them to a good school, couldn`t, and they ended up with a half-assed "get what you pay for" education.

The system you suggest is basically letting the children suffer for the parents` mistakes.
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Male 525
No, it`s the "if you can`t state my position with such an accuracy that I would say, `yeah, that`s what I think`, then there`s nothing to discuss." tactic; a debate would be pointless if you couldn`t do that. Otherwise, it would just involve you making straw man after straw man which is what you`ve certainly been doing.

And your ad hominems i.e. you calling me a "right-wing nut" and a "troll" only reenforce my point.
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Male 356
Ah I see. The age-old, tried-and-true "Cover my ears and shut my eyes, blah blah blah I don`t care what you say" tactic.
Here`s a better suggestion: how about cast your misconceptions and prejudice aside and listen to your opponent for once?
...
Damn, for a moment I forgot that right wing nuts are basically trolls.
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Male 1,448
Education is everything. If this systems does not work well, then it needs to be replaced. IMO we should have one national standard period, no 50+ different ones. Take the best of the 50 and mold it into one standard.
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Male 525
If you seriously think I want to get rid of the government and that I`m an anarchist, I don`t think any meaningful discussion is possible between you and me.
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Male 356
M_Archer, you are hopelessly misled.
I do not advocate democracy, but I am even more fiercely against oligarchy. And yes, if you let corporations run free, power will be vested into the few richest douchebags in the country, who receive supports from deceived folks like you (unless you are one of them, but the chance of a multi-billionaire browsing IAB is slim). Yes, you have the right to choose, but CHOOSE YOUR MASTER. I think that`s a little better than traditional slavery, although not that much more.
I see, you want to get rid of government. But since you have come so close to anarchism, why not getting rid of corporations, of monetary systems and possessions too? Is it really too big of a leap?
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Male 525
Sorry, I should`ve said, "That IS slavery."
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Male 3,745
"other people should not be forced to pay for their neighbor`s child`s education. That`s similar to slavery."

are you drating serious with that :|

go back to school and look up what a slave REALLY is...
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Male 258
Wall-of-text in replies, TLDR
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Male 1,598
YES. Get rid of this. It`s too late for me, since I`m currently a college freshman and had to live with this all through my school years, but for the future generations, please drop this program.
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Male 525
Also, a bank can only "rape" a customer with a mortagage IF THE BANK HAS THEIR PERMISSION. This is the key issue: the capitalist`s tool is trade; the bureaucrat`s tool is a gun.

If corporations lie just as much as a government, that`s all the more reason to keep government out of education. Lying and secrecy are tools of a rights-violating police state. A corporation can only take advantage of you if you give them your permission; if a deceitful corporation commits fraud, they are punished severely. With the government, they control you no matter what.

I also fail to see the difference between education and computers, in the industry sense. You`ve provided no reasons why capitalism works for computers but it would not work for education.
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Male 525
@Webz: "Slave" is defined as: "a person held in servitude as the chattel of another" A man who works, but his money taken away by force--is a slave.

@MCMXCIII: That`s called democracy i.e. the system where individual rights are subject to mob rule. According to you, if 51% of the population say it`s ok to rape, murder and pillage, it`s acceptable. I think that that`s wrong, in any context. A moral atrocity is a moral atrocity regardless of how many people support it. I reject the horrible concept of democracy.

@mal_BB: If Wal-Mart did run a school, if you didn`t agree with what they were teaching, you can send your child somewhere else. That`s the beauty of capitalism: you have choice. With your government run education, you have no choice; the curriculum is mandated by force.

If you don`t like the capitalist`s education, you can go to someone else. If you don`t like the bureaucrat`s education, then you go to jail.
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Male 1,231
Let capitalism control education, and Chomsky`s 20% would very quickly approach Chomsky`s 10%, then 5%, then 1%.
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Male 356
Haha, yes, turn education to the corporations. We are not being enslaving fast enough.
Since when "the people" becomes an equivalent of "corporations", by the way? Since when did the 1% become the voice of the 99%?
No M Archer, your argument is not valid.
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Male 1,231
Sorry, a bit of a typing error there, what I meant to say was; There`s alot I don`t agree with when it comes to the government, but a Nationalised health care and education system are two things I do agree with.
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Male 1,231
First of all, the corporations lie just as much as the government, but at least, to some degree we have a say in what the government does.
There`s a big difference between a shirt making company and an education system; capitalism is a concept with variables, which can be good in some areas, and catastrophic in others. With computers and technology it can be a good thing; although technology is held back purposefully so that they can slowly release product and therefore generate more revenue. When it isn`t regulated properly, i.e, the banking system, greed takes over and the poo hits the fan.
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Male 1,231

For instance, imagine only the most wealthy members of society could afford an education, and everyone else was left out; this is exactly how it was several hundred years ago; do you really want to go back to that? Now imagine if the entire education system was privitised; it would be run as a business. The people who ran these institutions would also no doubt be board members for corporations; thats how it works. Are you seriously saying you want companies such as wall mart, or banking conglomerates not only cashing in on children`s education but molding them to suit their own endevours? There`s alot I don`t agree with when it comes to the government, but a Nationalised health care and education system are two of them. It strikes me that you disagree with paying for someone else healthcare/education, but seem to have no quarms with being raped by a bank when it comes to getting a mortgage (the ultimate example of capitalism)
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Male 541
"other people should not be forced to pay for their neighbor`s child`s education. That`s similar to slavery."

This is my problem with the ultra right-wing conservative mentality. That is fearmongering at its finest. I`d love to see you tell an ACTUAL SLAVE that you can relate to their situation because you pay some extra taxes for the benefit of society (which in the long term will raise living standards in your country and inevitably benefit you individually, since that`s all you people care about).
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Male 525
You say that you want parents to have a choice in their child`s education, but with government-run education that`s not possible. Hell, in Canada, the only "private" thing about "private schools" are the fact that you have to pay to use them. The government still mandates what they can and can`t teach. With government education, the government holds--in force (as opposed to merit)--a monopoly on the school system, so parents don`t have a say what their child learns. On top of that, parents are mandated by law to send their kids to these schools even if they disagree with the content being taught.

If the t-shirt industry was government funded and run, so that every citizen could have a shirt and someone suggested that the profit-making industry should run the shirt factories, I`d expect you to be the first person who`d say: "So, you want all the poor people to walk around naked?!"
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Male 525
"Corporate greed would become the main aim, rather than educating the next generation."

I hate this argument. For one thing, double-standard much? "Of COURSE, corporations are corrupt and greedy; and of COURSE, the government are benevolent overlords thinking only about the welfare of its citizens."

Corporations can only take money from people with their consent, so their interest IS in other people. The government takes money by force and is intent on making up lies to convince the public to keep them around.

By the same logic, one could say "if the computer and electronic industry was run by profit-makers, there would be no service because they just care about money! Computer technology would take a back seat to corporate greed!"

And you`d be wrong. A corporation`s interest IS in its customers since they can only get money if they provide a decent service.
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Male 1,231
sethmccary; yeah that`s the direction I was going with it; there is no incentive to learn for kids; why would they get an education and a job rather than earning £500 a week delivering drugs or poppin out a kid or two and living off benefits.


@ M Archer
"other people should not be forced to pay for their neighbor`s child`s education. That`s similar to slavery".
I don`t disagree that parents should play a role in the education and wellfare of their children, but privitising the entire school system would be a disaster. Corporate greed would become the main aim, rather than educating the next generation. I`m guessing you disagree with Canada`s health care system then?

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Male 525
@mal_BB: When I say "capitalism can fix the school system", I mean that the education industry should be completely separate from the government and run for profit.

I don`t know how the UK school system works, so I can`t comment on that. I don`t mean capitalism as an alternate; I mean capitalism and the free market as the ONLY means of getting an education.

The theory behind government run education is that: "children need an education; their need is a claim on the lives and money of other people". I think parents should be responsible for their children and their education; other people should not be forced to pay for their neighbor`s child`s education. That`s similar to slavery.
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Male 208
@mal BB: I see where you are going with this. Capitalism would not necessarily "fix" anything. I think a better way to put it is, if we paid our teachers as much as we paid our football players, and glamorized the benefits of getting an education instead of being a slut, or an orange douche-bag(Thank you Jersey Shore) then the result would be more favorable to the over all benefit of the community.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Abolish the Department of Education[/quote]

I say gut the Hell out of it, remove everything but accreditation. Public accreditation is fine, and admittably it requires some money to maintain, but not as much as dishing out money to enforce said standards.
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Male 6
being a student of that is above average, i absolutely HATE NCLB. If the kid doesn`t want to learn, pressure and force wont make him. help the people that either A) want to learn or B) want to learn but are struggling. There is always 1-5 kids in a classroom who dick off and don`t care, so whey bother.
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Male 2,440
[quote]where class and wealth is automatically translated to popularity.[/quote]
Yeah, because the wealthy kids in my public school sure weren`t popular. Nope. No sir.
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Male 10,855
While the government DOES need to recognize standards, this was a blatant overexertion that has produced perverse outcomes.

Rather than raising the bar, this legislation has simply encouraged everyone to lower it. This isn`t only mistake Bush Jr made though.
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Male 2,440
Abolish the Department of Education. Leave it to the states.
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Male 1,231
M Archer; When you say Capitalism would fix the education system; i`m assuming you`re suggesting a system close to the private boarding schools we have over here in the UK; independently run and funded, where class and wealth is automatically translated to popularity. This system is massively flawed, and if it were to be implemented as an alternative to the state system, it would almost certainly lead to an even bigger class divide than we (the west) have now. I`m not saying the government know how to run schools because they don`t; and as for standardised testing, it is already being eradicated in Scotland with fantastic results.
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Male 1,084
I think we should re-institute natural selection..
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Male 2,422
Instead of dumbing down the curriculum to make sure every moron gets a passing grade they should expel all the stupid and lazy kids and focus on the smart ones who are actually willing and able to learn. The fact that funding for mental invalids is always astronomically higher than that of gifted kids in pretty much every school district shows you kind of educational investment trends this country is making (it`s not in smart students).
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Male 142
I`m an educational interpreter who tends to work with "special" or "exceptional" populations and I can say that NCLB has caused nothing but headaches and paperwork for the teachers of all populations. All standardized testing assumes that there are enough hours in the day to cover X content. Many times that just isn`t the case and teachers stop really teaching just to make sure they meet their goals. They might be good teachers in truth, but over-regulation forces them to leave real learning behind in order to keep some administrator`s schedule and meet the Board`s idea of how a classroom should be run.
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Male 1,629
you could blame the teachers, you could blame the students. we all know who is really to blame for the lack of intelligence in the average teen in the last 10 years. the parents!!
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Male 525
School shouldn`t even be government funded and run, either. For one thing, the government has no right to force some people to pay for someone else`s kid`s education. On a practical note, everything that the government does is half-assed or mediocre. Think about it. Even legitimate government services could be better e.g. we all know how good "military intelligence is"

To fix the education system, education needs a massive dose of capitalism. We should let capitalism do for education what capitalism did for computers, electronics, and the automobile industry.

@Norris: I don`t think the "brat kids" that you talk about care about tax breaks for their parents or health care. They`re brats: they don`t want to be in school, period.
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Male 3,745
"No Child Left Behind supported math, reading, english, etc. at the expense of everything else."

and none of it was learned...the teachers here (most of them anyway. im sure everyone here can name at least 1 teacher they liked.) are poo and so is our curriculum...send your kids to japan...you`d get what you pay for at least...
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Male 495
No Child Left Behind supported math, reading, english, etc. at the expense of everything else.
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Male 3,745
M Archer: but who else will feed the trolls?
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Male 265
NCLB pretty much opened the doors on teacher bashing in the past ten years. The whole "idea" behind the legislation was to identify supposed failing schools and failing teachers based upon student-non-accountable exams.

Students are given these exams every year in the springtime and simply told to do well. If a kid turns in smiley faces, bubbles in cuss-words, or wipes their rear with the exam does it ever come back to the student? No. Instead the teacher is labeled a "bad teacher", the school gets marked down, and sometimes the staff is replaced (usually the principal is the sacrificial lamb).

I`m all for standardized testing... but let`s shift the focus to holding students accountable as well.
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Male 525
@collegebound: You`ve posted more than twelve times more comments than I have, yet you haven`t realized that Madest isn`t looking for us to agree with him or to convince us to change our minds: he insults people because he wants a reaction; he has trouble forming healthy relationships, so negative attention is better than none.

Don`t give him it. He`ll eventually realize how much of a desperate loser he is and say something productive.
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Male 1,011
Personally I think the NCLB thing was done with the best of intentions but it just didn`t work out.

I would propose a better idea. If you fail hard, they "fire" you from school. This wouldn`t be oh, I flunked a major test and now I don`t pass this six weeks.

This would be for the kids "I don`t want to be here and will ruin any attempts at learning here" type of brats.

There could be tax breaks for good grades, health care for kids in school, etc. All these perks to get good grades, and if they still are that stupid, they aren`t worth dealing with.
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Male 208
@maddest: I agree. The government has no right to dictate the terms and content of a child`s learning; that`s the parent`s responsibility.

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You really are retarded huh? We have a public school system down here because most parents are too stupid to teach. Even those who are smart enough to teach probably don`t know how.

If you read more carefully, M Archer clearly stated "to dictate the terms and content". Not implying that the parents would do the actual teaching, rather give the parents the right dictate the terms and content of the education given by PUBLIC schools, not GOVERNMENT schools. The schools belong to the public. We decide, not them. That is basically what the man in the video was saying.
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Male 48
Finally! I was just starting high school when this law took effect, and I thought it was a joke then. I am fairly certain I learned more outside of school then when I was in class. Our current education system is complete waste of time for anyone who wants to actually succeed in life.
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Male 208
Bout friggin` time
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Male 3,745
"You really are retarded huh? We have a public school system down here because most parents are too stupid to teach. Even those who are smart enough to teach probably don`t know how."

apparently the teachers are too stupid to teach too...

teaching your child about sex cant be too much different from teaching them geography, the spoken language for the country in question, or any other subject...get any books/materials you may need and teach your kids yourself...

they might just become something one day...
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Male 356
good. Kids today are far too lazy and inept.
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Female 2,764
it failed. Moving on...
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Male 406
It does teach to the test... if you`re in the class for illiterate morons.

I was in the gifted/ap track in my high school and was dual enrolled in a local college my senior year. I never once had a class that just taught how to take a test. It was assumed we were smart enough to not have to even worry or think about failing/scoring low on it.
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Male 7,378
[quote]I agree. The government has no right to dictate the terms and content of a child`s learning; that`s the parent`s responsibility.[/quote]
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You really are retarded huh? We have a public school system down here because most parents are too stupid to teach. Even those who are smart enough to teach probably don`t know how.
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Male 29
well, disdain for No Child Left Behind in the education quarter is nothing new. I don`t know of any teachers who actually "like" it. The whole point and purpose was to bring all children to grade academic reading levels by 2014, which in theory is a great goal, but the reality is that this goal is unattainable. While the Bush administration had a good idea, the fact remains that children and students are too diverse to try to cover every disability and difference under one bill. We are due for an education overhaul, but its going to take more than just eliminating No Child Left Behind; in many ways we have to start all over.
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Male 525
I agree. The government has no right to dictate the terms and content of a child`s learning; that`s the parent`s responsibility.
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Male 1,540
It`s about time.
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Male 38,455

No Child Left Behind failed.
Every year schools fall farther and farther down in comparison with other modern nations.
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Male 25,416
meh....
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Female 295
We need garbage men.
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Male 3,461
Link: States Are Trying To Ditch `No Child Left Behind` [Rate Link] - Some say it is counterproductive to teach by the test. What do you think, I-A-B? Good or will this bring on dumber kids?
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