Lawrence O`Donnell Rewrites Wall Street Protests

Submitted by: madest 5 years ago in

He takes on the "troublemakers."
There are 80 comments:
Male 206
@Gerry: I did read carefully.

Cajun247: "50% of households don`t pay taxes." (edit: with no "income" qualifier, wrong)

Madest responded: "The actual number of Americans who don’t pay any taxes isn’t half, but 14%...to say 50% pay no taxes is flat out wrong." (edit: This is correct. Again, talking about ALL taxes, not JUST income taxes.)

Gerry: "@madest - incorrect. 47% don`t pay income tax according to USAToday article"

...and you`re telling me to read carefully? Let me illustrate:

On the other hand, I`m sorry if you thought I was referring to you about wanting to tax the poor. That was for Crakr (who thinks returning to Reagan-era tax rates is just like communism) and sethmccary (who doesn`t know what socialism means)
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Male 38,455

@ madest - it wasn`t `nonsense` when I was agreeing with you.
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Male 7,378
Gerry, I appreciate your attempt to correct me but "income" taxes wasn`t what he or I was talking about. Please, don`t force me to delete your nonsense.
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Male 38,455

@ MichaelBored ~ A couple of things.

Yes I did read the article. I posted it to dispell madest`s claim that only 14% didn`t pay taxes.

I am not in favor of taxing the poor. I never said I was. When republicans say "broaden the tax base" they mean taxing the 47% who are poor. I`m not in favor of that. I don`t know where you thought you read that I do want to taxt them, but read more carefully.

I am in favor of taxing the rich exactly the same as the middle class. Not more-not less.
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Male 206
@Gerry1of1: C`mon, man...Income taxes are not the only taxes paid. Did you not read the article you linked to?

"Most still pay Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, sales taxes and property taxes (if they own any property)." Not to mention local and state taxes as well.

So yeah, everybody DOES have "skin in the game," it`s just that poor people have a lot less skin to put in.

And while the income tax is progressive, every other tax that those same people do pay is regressive. Not to mention, the reason we don`t tax that people that poor is that THEY`RE POOR. They barely have enough money to keep them above the @#$%&! POVERTY level - and in many cases don`t even make that much.

But here we are, richest nation on the globe, with the top marginal tax rate the lowest its been in decades, and we`re complaining that the poor aren`t squeezed hard enough.

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Male 645
>>>Why is "class warfare" as defined by republicans always the poor wanting the weathy to be taxed as equals to the middle class? <<<

I guess I just am missing something. Where in the tax code does it say hey you are rich here is the special secret handshake that lets you use the special tax rates? It does not exist. Are there different rates for different TYPES of income? Yes. Are there deductions for specific activities? Yes. But how is that unequal?
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Male 645
>>>The tax system needs a complete overhaul. <<<

I agree 100% But getting there by trying to play one group against another, failing to understand WHY some income is taxed differently than others, and that a "loophole" is really the government rewarding specific actions (some of which I bet you might think twice about eliminating), does not get us to a better system just a different system.
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Male 38,455

@ dang007 ~ I support some republican ideas. I also support some democrat and some independant ideas. I make my mind up on each topic and don`t follow a party line.
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Male 38,455

@ madest - incorrect. 47% don`t pay income tax according to
USAToday article


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Male 7,378
To state as fact that 1/2 of Americans aren`t paying taxes is just BS talking points jammed into the empty heads of people who believe everything they hear. The actual number of Americans who don’t pay any taxes isn’t half, but 14%. This group of non-taxpayers is largely composed of the elderly and disabled. The people who don’t pay taxes do so because they can’t work or are retired. Out of those 14% Some paid property taxes and, it is fair to say, just about all of them paid sales taxes of one kind or another. So to say 50% pay no taxes is flat out wrong.
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Male 10,855
[quote]None of the middle class or poor have the ability to escape taxes, the rich are the only ones who can[/quote]

Yet those rich only make up less than 2% of the population at anytime and 50% of households don`t pay taxes.
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Male 7,378
You called them "tax cheats" not I. But OK lets run with that because I agree they are cheating the system to benefit their own greed. Same goes for loopholes and tax havens and subsidies. None of the middle class or poor have the ability to escape taxes, the rich are the only ones who can. Their loopholes, subsidies and havens were all bought and paid for by the rich to change rules to their benefit.
The tax system needs a complete overhaul. It cannot benefit one group of people more favorably than the other. It needs to be blind in order to be fair.
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Male 645
>Their capital gains taxes are 15%. The system is skewed to protect their wealth at the cost of the middle class.<<<


Um no. Capital gains are taxed at a different rate because. 1. it is a recognition that capital is AT RISK. 2. It benefits the country for people to put capital at risk. This is were the growth in the economy comes from.

From an analysis of 2008 IRS data "close to 94% of those who have to consider the capital gains tax when investing make less than $200,000 year. Further, 73% of those who report the sale of capital investments make less than $100,000 per year."

Stop listening to tax cheats trying to tell you what you or anyone else should pay in taxes, Buffet, Timothy Geithner, the Clintons, etc. etc.

We can argue what the appropriate rate should be but trying to compare it to income tax is just displaying your ignorance.
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Male 645
>>>I do think 35% is a bit high. If they paid it I`d be in favor of lowering it.
<<<

So you support republicanism efforts to reform the tax code?
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Male 38,455

It`s not only rich people that should pay a fair share...Corporations.

Last year GE made 14.2 billion in profits but paid ZERO corporate income tax. Their tax rate is supposed to be 35% but thanks to loop holes none of them ever come even close to that number.

side note: I do think 35% is a bit high. If they paid it I`d be in favor of lowering it.
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Male 7,378
30% is the average middle class tax for anyone making $35k to $380k. Many rich people (especially the greedy crooks on Wall Street). Make their money off investments. Their capital gains taxes are 15%. The system is skewed to protect their wealth at the cost of the middle class. It doesn`t matter how much share of the countries wealth comes from the rich if their investment is 1/2 that of the less fortunate.

Another thing. There is nothing "illegal" about protesting.
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Male 17,512
Gerry: I have no problem with getting rid of the tax loopholes for the rich. But the middle class does not pay 30% of their income in tax, unless you consider people making over $200,000 a year as `middle class`.
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Male 208
We need to abolish income tax and the Fed completely.
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Male 38,455

@ Crakr ~ Your right. the top 2% do pay 50% of the taxes. But they control 96% of the wealth. Why do they only pay 50%? Why is so much of their income deffered or given other tax credits?

Middle class tax rate is 30%
Rich tax rate is 20%

Crakr, if you are rich I understand why you want to keep your money. If you aren`t rich I really don`t get why you chop your own legs off defending these biased tax laws.
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Male 2,384
the whole world is watching
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Male 208
You dumb socialists.
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Male 17,512
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Male 17,512
madest: The middle class doesn`t pay the majority of the taxes here in the US, The richest 2% pay nearly 50% of the taxes.

Now why would i be for the middle class having to pay even more in taxes, to be equal with the rich ?

Class warfare is not about taxes, it`s about envy it`s about starting violent revolution.

I don`t care to be rich, I have what is needed to survive and don`t envy the problems rich people have to deal with.

Rich people worry about their money, they know unscrupulous people want to take what they have from them, they become large targets for criminals. Most rich people don`t mind paying their fair share in taxes, and I`m not going to hate them for their contributions to paying for the majority of my disability.
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Male 16
Protesters whatever, and maybe the cops were outnumbered, but what happened isn`t right. There was no reason to do this here with the pepperspray, or the ganging up on a chick by a bunch of cops. If there was someone from the protest side that smashed some windows, then deal with them, but the right to assemble has to be protected, call the protesters brats, or whatever, that still doesn`t change the fact that their rights to peaceful assemblage were taken away without any cause.
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Male 5,078
Fatninja01 your classic "meh!" is allways wellcome.
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Male 25,416
let me do the shortest post here... meh!
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Male 84
the trouble makers were carrying pepper spray guns badges and out numbered 500 to 1. yeah just like RACISM and Rodney King. Also i didnt really listin to this jag off cuz i wonder how many times hes been subject to police brutality and i dont think he (or the media) can relate to the "masses" problems.

oh u lost your job because u decided to call in sick for a week to protest while defrauding the business for sick pay and were caught? your fault.

hippies need to shave their sideburns and start being responsible for their "Choices". that word "Choice", means you decided to buy a 200,000 dollar house while working at a min wage job. it was your choice to get that payday loan and not be able to keep up.

dont get me wrong that stuff sucks but the GOV. only takes your money u will nevr get a hand out that will not cost you someway.
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Male 38,455

I`m not some class elitist. I`m the same as the people protesting but I just can`t side with them this time. I`m not gonna scream and cry and blame it all on Banks like blaming daddy.

Sure, banks are part of the problem, but until the government is taken back from special intersts and corporations that bought the politicians, there is no hope of change.

The problem is greater than pointing at a bank and yelling "BURN WITCH! BURN!".
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Male 7,378
Why is "class warfare" as defined by republicans always the poor wanting the weathy to be taxed as equals to the middle class? Wouldn`t the true definition of "class warfare" be the rich protecting their weath by buying political influence to allow them to acheive more wealth?

You will never be rich CJ. You need the middle class just to survive. You are the Benedict Arnold of your own well being.
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Male 17,512
madest: You`re the type of person Stalin would`ve called a "Useful Idiot".

The role of the "Useful Idiot" is to promote socialism/communism by means of class envy and class warfare until there is a revolution. After the revolution succeeds, the useful idiots are rounded up imprisoned and or shot.

If you want examples of this you need look no farther than Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea, etc. and the people they got rid of immediately after their revolutions succeeded.
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Male 573
Some of you lot (you know who you are) fight against your own best interests. Corporate America got it`s way, and you will pay for their mistakes, again and again.
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Male 38,455


Thanks CRAKRJAK for the LINK.
[quote">That`s the bank that took my parents home! [/quote">
His parents entered into a contract they could not afford. Yep, that`s the banks fault all right. There are serious problems and it`s juvenile to blame them all on "The Man".

America ~ It`s time to grow up.

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Male 48
Police states are the worst states... how did the cops develop such an `us versus them` mentality? Why are conservatives defending their use of extremely excessive force? Spitting, standing in the wrong place, or using a video camera should never be grounds for getting tackled and cuffed while having a knee on the back of your neck. This is NOT what we`re supposed to be.

How a conservative can cry for less government and in the same breath, defend that governments violation of its citizens` constitutionally-mandated rights boggles my mind. How do you square it in that head of yours?
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Male 7,378
Look at the conservative Christians finding excuses for the police. This is the personality type that would have embraced Nazism in 1920`s Germany. More power to the man! Forget your constitutional right to assemble you`re a hippie and should be put down like a dog.

Nazism failed.
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Male 478
What a bunch of martyrs.
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Female 836
We live in an oppressive government now that wants us to shut up and take it.
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Male 1,393
This kind of bull-poo spin along with the idiots form anonymous posting police officer`s personal information including the identities of family and children will only lead to more violence. People may actually start hunting the police. One poster suggests to shoot them. Then what? More violence from teh police who remain then more violence from the thugs when the police are gone. I fully support police chiefs taking their stray dogs out back and putting them down but you have to respect the risks these people take on our behalf.
Mindless activists with no clear agenda are not doing anyone any good. They need to be stopped.
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Male 14,826
@mcboozerilla "Someone should shoot those cops."

Not true. Your suggestion is also illegal and you should be prosecuted for it.
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Male 17,512
xelous: You wanted some proof that these protesters were blocking traffic and defying the police officers order to get back on the sidewalk.

You Tube Link

The student in the video is Robert Stephens graduate of Carleton College (average cost: $42,942/year) in 2010 and now studies law at The George Washington University Law School (average cost: $70,449/year). His father has a Ph.D. and two master’s degrees; his mother also has a master’s degree.

Phone inquiries into the county property records office reveal that the Stephens family home is not and never has been in foreclosure, that property taxes had been paid in full this year and the remaining balance on their mortgage for the half-million dollar home is less than one year’s worth of tuition+fees at their son’s law school.
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Male 1,540
When watching these videos, remember that people have rights, and law enforcement officers are supposed to be unbiased. Their job is to react to people breaking laws, and react in the most minimal way possible. Police have a reaction level that`s supposed to be appropriate for the situation. If you go to arrest someone, you don`t just throw them over your shoulder on to the ground. Verbal commands before getting physical. There`s no reason to throw somebody on the ground unless they fight back, nor deploy pepper spray before anyone starts throwing punches. You don`t just go, "Oh, these people seem to be getting pretty rowdy. Time to start throwing people on the ground and spraying large amounts of people with mace." I mean, drat, while you`re at it, just start tazering people. Maybe they`re getting to loud for me I should just pull out my gun and start shooting them.
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Male 17,512
xelous: [quote]Anything done illegally by anyone involved should have been arrested..[/quote]

Many of the protesters were arrested for their illegal acts. Purporting that the police did something illegal, when they are just doing their jobs, is a bunch of crap.

Considering how rowdy, disrespectful, disorderly, and defiant these protesters were, The police showed a lot of restraint.
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Male 356
So apparently, owning a camera is a crime now?
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Male 530
To serve and protect, their own ass. And that`s what they`re doing marvelously.
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Male 2,513
CrakrJak "Freedom of speech does not extend to blocking traffic, being a nuisance, and trying to start fights with police so that they can be edited later to claim police brutality."

Anything done illegally by anyone involved should have been arrested (including police), not beaten and sprayed for standing (while yelling things, oh noes poor cops) on the sidewalk or taking video.

Yet you make no claim to back up your previous albeit semi-retarded statement. Thank you and goodnight
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Male 17,512
xelous: Freedom of speech does not extend to blocking traffic, being a nuisance, and trying to start fights with police so that they can be edited later to claim police brutality.

The real news media was there as well and reported on how rowdy and repeatedly defiant these protesters really were.

In contrast, I`ve never heard of a tea party protester defying cops, taunting them, and getting maced, tazed, or arrested.
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Male 646
Someone should shoot those cops.
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Male 2,422
The Pinkertons are back.
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Male 2,513
<satire>
Pfft, stupid protester hippies. How dumb are they to think that by using their freedoms of speech and assembly that they can point out something inherently wrong with the way things are being run. Serves them right getting beat up and sprayed for standing around and saying things by the very mature and calm headed police men. After all they`re just showing the new recruits how it`s done and those protesters were non-nice individuals.
</satire>
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Male 2,513
@CrakrJak... really?!? What about standing on the sidewalk or even in the street is un-peaceful? Sure it may be disruptive but that`s what a protest is generally trying to accomplish, illegal to stand in the street sure. They weren`t in the street when they got sprayed so your logic is clearly flawed as the offending protesters would`ve been crawling or actually in the street
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Male 2,513
Once again, disgusting police state of America.

Hey American college students, be more like the UK and start rioting. At least then they`ll know what we think of them.
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Male 38,455

@ jtrebowski - Nope. The GOP`d love to strip away every civil liberty we have for anyone earning less than 2 million a year. But that does not make the Libretard`s dis-information correct.

I guess what I`m say is... "What`s your point?"
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Male 26
Someone admitted they weren`t doing anything and they weren`t immediately let go with an apology? WHAT HAVE WE COME TO? Go home and take a shower you stinky hippies.
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Male 14,826
I deplore the unprovoked and excessive use of force by the police. I would encourage them not to do it.

Firstly, it is bad manners. It`s unethical. It`s illegal.

Secondly, it is really bad press. Protests are all about media exposure (up to the point where it becomes an actual revolution). Why would you give the press images of people beating innocent and peaceful women and pepper spraying them for no reason? Dumb ass.

Thirdly, it causes escalation. Determined protesters would be much safer were they to use violent methods and attack in a dynamic anarchistic manner. It`s not hard. the Chinese have written several good manuals on this and translations are in the public domain. We don`t want flash riots in roaming gangs, civilians slipping into the command center with a knife or pipebomb, or civilians with suppressed .22`s sniping police commanders from behind their lines.
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Male 17,512
These protesters were blocking traffic, not just once, but multiple times, they were also warned multiple times.

After the protesters refused to get back on the sidewalk force was used to remove them from the streets, then the police brought in flexible barricades, but even that wasn`t enough, some tried to crawl underneath the barricade and back out into the street.

These protesters were not peaceful, disrespectful to the police, disorderly, defiant, and got what they deserved.
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Male 3,364
@Gerry10f1: Like it or not, that (and this) "Liberal turd" will fight for your rights and equality until our bones show. Can you say the same for the GOP?
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Male 3,364
I`m as Liberal as they come, and I fully support the protesters, but if they`re claiming people are getting arrested just for videotaping, what about the person who videotaped the arrests?
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Male 1,674
piperfawn, so how is #occupywallstreet helping? They have no clear agenda by their own admission. I would garentee that the majority of the protesters came into this viewing the NYPD as their enemy even though the NYPD *are* part of this 99% they are talking about.

I would respect the "protesters" a lot more if they had some sort of purpose and maybe even a solution?! But they don`t even know what their protesting... is it Wall Street, the Governement, Big Business, the police, capital punishment, society....
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Male 5,078
"But I get the sense we are not seeing the real pictures". The real picture my friend is that a great changement is aproaching, something that today we can`t clearly focus cause this will be a global revolution, we are to used to our way of life to make a good prevision of what will be. We allready pass, just 2 years ago, trough an international banks collapse, we all have allready payed to save the banks under the promise they had to change their metods. Guess what? Banks have taken our money and they have started again to do their dirty games, this time with more power cause we, the people, are poorer.
An ancient motto say "if you pull to much the rope it will break" I`m clearly sensing the crunghing of that rope.
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Male 38,455

It is odd that I am defending the police so much regarding this protest. I think I`ve clearly defined myself in previous posts as Anti-Cop. I fear them! But I get the sense we are not seeing the real pictures. We don`t have nearly enough information to base an opinion on.

Does anyone even know what they`re protesting? And how is standing around Wall Street going to achieve any goals? Could someone show an entire video clip and not just the bit where someone goes down?

Maybe it`s all a distraction so we don`t see that George Lucas is raping Star Wars on the Blue Ray edition!
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Male 266
Stupid cops... they`re just enforcers of the rich.
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Male 5,078
Wise words PinkRhoid.
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Male 1,239
Gerry is right, News is insanely biased these days . Once upon a time they would have shown the video, given a brief set of facts about the situation such as why they were protesting, how many, how many arrests, etc. and people would form their own views. Now we`re force fed what we should think by all sides. None-the-less, cops imo are very often over-the-top despite the very tough job being a cop really is. As I just said though, they are taught to fear everyone as a preparation method to keep them vigilant but vigilance can be taught without the need to demonize the public in their eyes.
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Male 1,239
Gerry, even if she spit they are supposed to use appropriate force. None of that force seemed too appropraite. My grandfather was a cop. He wanted to protect people and he was proud to be a protector, a hero. Someone people respected and who little kids looked up to and wanted to be just like. He was trained never to use his gun to incite control through fear and brandishing without the real need to fire was likely to get you fired. They were trained to be cautious but not at the expense of those they are meant to protect. Now they are trained to pull weapon at the first suspicion of danger and to assume that every citizen means them harm. I had a cop unsap his pistol restraint and keep his hand on his gun as he approached my car, turns out I had a taillight out. I share my grandfathers sentiments that this new way of teaching them only makes citizens enemies in their eyes and that all the awareness they need to stay safe can be had without teaching cops to fear everyone.
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Male 5,078
Gerry1of1"Whatever happened to REAL news coverage?
"COMMENTARY" is opinion...not fact."
And certainly we will never know real facts from the police, you must be sure of that to Gerry.
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Male 718
drat THE POLICE!
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Male 1,239
ArcVal it is why. Everyday things like this and things like the mentally ill kid you was beaten to death happen it gets closer. Eventually there`s a flashpoint when people can`t take anymore and that`s when the 2nd comes into play. I just feel bad because I know that the looting and the normal people who will turn to crime during the chaos will put the London Looters to shame.
I`m not usually a doomsayer but there`s a storm brewing and if it hits it`s gonna be bad.
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Male 38,455

So this liberal turd commenting, he shows the police take down a guy, but not the bit before that may {or may not} show the reason. Inconclusive.

Lt. reaching acrossed net to grab a woman - Is that the woman who spit on him? {assualt} The video doesn`t show the full story.

etc etc etc

No, the police are not entirely innocent...but those protesters are not just standing there peacefully twiddling their thumbs either.

Whatever happened to REAL news coverage?
"COMMENTARY" is opinion...not fact.
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Male 5,078
Good post madest.
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Male 303
I thought this was why Americans had the second amendment?
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Female 1,589

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Male 230
You got to love it some people have a problem with the system so they go out and do the only thing they can at this point and protest. While the useless site at home calling them dirty hippies for exercising their right. I think the lazy are just jealous.
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Male 26
Someone admitted they weren`t doing anything and they weren`t immediately let go with an apology? WHAT HAVE WE COME TO? Go home and take a shower you stinky hippies.
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Male 1,674
The protester said "we`re not doing anything."

Case closed right there. How could the cop even think of persuing this when the protested *admitted* the she was not doing anything wrong.
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Female 737
Great video, worth watching.
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Male 260
I don`t know for sure, but I`m going to go out on a limb here. Anonymous has already ruined most of those officer`s lives, haven`t they?
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Male 1,011
this is what molotovs are for..get crackin protesters :P

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Male 600
Seems like everyone else is standing behind the red line/marker. Did that guy jump the line? Cuz if he did then I would think it is a clear grounds for taking the man down and forcing him back to the other side.
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Male 1,084
Any relation to Rosie?
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Male 23
I see what he did there.
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Male 7,378
Link: Lawrence O`Donnell Rewrites Wall Street Protests [Rate Link] - He takes on the `troublemakers.`
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