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Date: 09/04/11 09:20 AM

88 Responses to Former 4-Star General Admits Neocon Coup In Middle

  1. Profile photo of motleystew
    motleystew Male 18-29
    48 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:21 am
    Link: Former 4-Star General Admits Neocon Coup In Middle - Conspiracy theorists get ready to say I told you so.
  2. Profile photo of Nlupu
    Nlupu Male 18-29
    229 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:35 am
    Sweet jeebus I hope everything he said was a lie... Cuz if not, we are fcuk-o`d
  3. Profile photo of gladhatter
    gladhatter Male 50-59
    219 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:42 am
    Treasonous bastard!
  4. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:45 am
    America is, and always will be, a militaristic type of government. We`ve been war faring for about a century now, almost non-stop. It makes me wonder what the states would look like without this approach though.
  5. Profile photo of frenchroast
    frenchroast Male 30-39
    446 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:46 am
    Sounds about right.
  6. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:47 am
    Treason my ass, this is common knowledge around the world. Anyone thanking our troops for `fighting for our freedom` is a retarded drating puppet.
  7. Profile photo of Dr4k
    Dr4k Male 18-29
    575 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:51 am
    ... yep
  8. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:57 am
    I thought it was about oil... two birds, one stone.
  9. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36697 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:08 am

    ? Didn`t everyone already know all of this ?

    Nothing new here.
  10. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:09 am
    "Treason my ass, this is common knowledge around the world. Anyone thanking our troops for `fighting for our freedom` is a retarded drating puppet. "

    Next time you see a soldier make sure you thank him/her for defennding your right to badmouth them in such a way. "If you do not stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."
  11. Profile photo of cndman15
    cndman15 Male 18-29
    328 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:16 am
    @Steelgrid.. i dont feel bad for badmouthing soldiers. most soldiers are non-nice individuals anyways. the all the jocks and the dicks and the pricks from highschool all join the military because they arent smart enough to go to college and dont have any skills to operate a business on. So of course they are going to join the military. All they have to do is find a temporary wife that doesnt mind them being gone for half the year, and then take orders while sitting in a desert for the other half. In 30 years they can retire comfortably with all the ridiculous amounts of benefits that come with being a soldier of the united states.
  12. Profile photo of wmf1489
    wmf1489 Male 13-17
    45 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:16 am
    It doesn`t take a genius to make sense of it all. I`ve had theories about the United States ulterior motives as soon as days after 9/11 happened. But everyone sits back and calls me an idiot while bulls**t like this continues to happen and our liberties are constantly being stripped away. You don`t have to agree with the governments decisions to be a patriot. Sometimes its quite the opposite.
  13. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:19 am
    Next time you see a soldier make sure you thank him/her for defennding your right to badmouth them in such a way. "If you do not stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."
    ^ That is so messed up I can`t even begin to keep up. Someone else do it.
  14. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5097 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:21 am
    Steelgrid: Operative word: "defend".

    Merriam-Webster`s definition:
    de·fend
    1 a : to drive danger or attack away from <defend our shores>

    What you`re doing is rather more proactive than mere defending.
  15. Profile photo of wmf1489
    wmf1489 Male 13-17
    45 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:22 am
    @STEELGRID: Do you honestly stil believe that the troops are fighting for the liberties of US citiziens? What a foolish lie you have bought into. Our troops are being used as puppets and bullet bags to back the ideals of nation building pundits from the Bush era. So no, it isn`t enough to just stick a magnet on the back of your car. It takes critical thinking to truly understand what our troops are doing, and whether or not they`re doing any good. I have friends in the military, and I hate to admit it, but they simply aren`t doing anything. The middle east is just as unstable if not more than ever, and the only thing we have to show for it is a ever-growing list of lives lost.
  16. Profile photo of wmf1489
    wmf1489 Male 13-17
    45 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:22 am
    It doesn`t take a genius to make sense of it all. I`ve had theories about the United States ulterior motives as soon as days after 9/11 happened. But everyone sits back and calls me an idiot while bulls**t like this continues to happen and our liberties are constantly being stripped away. You don`t have to agree with the governments decisions to be a patriot. Sometimes its quite the opposite.
  17. Profile photo of wmf1489
    wmf1489 Male 13-17
    45 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:23 am
    @STEELGRID: Do you honestly stil believe that the troops are fighting for the liberties of US citiziens? What a foolish lie you have bought into. Our troops are being used as puppets and bullet bags to back the ideals of nation building pundits from the Bush era. So no, it isn`t enough to just stick a magnet on the back of your car. It takes critical thinking to truly understand what our troops are doing, and whether or not they`re doing any good. I have friends in the military, and I hate to admit it, but they simply aren`t doing anything. The middle east is just as unstable if not more than ever, and the only thing we have to show for it is a ever-growing list of lives lost.
  18. Profile photo of wmf1489
    wmf1489 Male 13-17
    45 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:23 am
    It doesn`t take a genius to make sense of it all. I`ve had theories about the United States ulterior motives as soon as days after 9/11 happened. But everyone sits back and calls me an idiot while bulls**t like this continues to happen and our liberties are constantly being stripped away. You don`t have to agree with the governments decisions to be a patriot. Sometimes its quite the opposite.
  19. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:30 am
    Gotta love how a teenager thinks they know more than the rest of the world. Ahh, the good old american educational system failing again.
  20. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:30 am
    drating bunch of propagandized idiots with retarded little quips. Keep bleeding that red whit and retarded. It`s people like you that give this whole country a bad image. Again, how is a soldier doing any of this `protecting my right to badmouth` ANYTHING? Oh right, were gettin` dems before we get got first. drating idiot.
  21. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:34 am
    @cndman15
    lol. The soldiers don`t get it that well off after they are done serving. In fact, most of them actually get married to take advantage of most of the benefits that they can get. It`s better to go to college first, and then go into the armed services. (usually to pay off a chunk of your student loans)
  22. Profile photo of Raptorkat
    Raptorkat Male 18-29
    75 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:49 am
    I am a US Marine currently serving, and I did 3 tours over there, and I knew that. I`m not fighting for my freedom, your freedom, or any Americans freedom, I`m fighting for Iraqis freedom.

    @cndman15.. Oh yea.. I`m 26, I`m an officer in the United States Marine Corps, and I have a Masters. What are you, still in drating high school? Believe it or now.. My commanding officer, who is a Colonel has a PhD.

    And I will continue to serve my country, till I retire, with my insane benefits package from the Corps, while your still trying to get your pooty garage band up and running and trying to pick up chicks with your pooty philosophy, ya douche.
  23. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:49 am
    Cmand, your view of people that join the military is so far out of left field that im just going to say you are full of poo and have no clue what you are talking about. Your simple post about jocks and whatnot that join the military just tells me you get picked on ALOT in the high school showers. Cry more pansy. Military soldiers are from ALL walks of life. From every corner of America in EVERY income class. They are people from the same homes, same problems, and same government as you and I. they are not puppets. they have a Job. If a soldier does not agree with the job due to certain threats, they have the right to say NO!!!

    If you like we can pull all our soldiers back home. We can allow countries to build against us. Then we can again reel from Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
  24. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:53 am
    Now on the counter side of what I just said in all that, our soldier have a job, which means they have a boss. It is the boss`, and the bosses of bosses fault, that we as a country have been fighting wars for so many years. With that said, i agree with this video. But this video is based of the boss` decisions. Not the soldiers. The soldiers are told weve been attacked, they were told we are going to attack back, THAT is the extent of the average soldiers knowledge of the battlefield. you cannot expect the average soldier to hold a political rally against a war that he/she feels is right based on the information given.

    Oh and TedGp, shut it jerkoff. Children from your country and others have the same ignorant view on things jackass.
  25. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 10:59 am
    Ungh, so many people "our soldier are not fighting for our freedom, blah drating blah"

    Technically the only way to fight for our freedom is if we are imprisoned. The efforts of our soldiers have a long trickle effect, but its like water on a spiderweb. Sure the spider can still catch bugs on the web with it wet. Sure, technically if the spider does nothing the water MIGHT dry up. of course if the spider simply does nothing and more and more water continue to build up, everything comes crashing down.

    The US has a strong military, we are not invincible. We defend ourselves by defending our interests. We defend our rights by defending our allies. But we also drating kill ourselves by attacking our allies 30 years later. Again not the soldier`s fault, blame our presidents.

  26. Profile photo of gladhatter
    gladhatter Male 50-59
    219 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:02 am
    RaptorKat, I salute YOU! TypicalJerk...yes you ARE!
  27. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:03 am
    "If you do not stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."

    This little tidbit is often blurted out on Canadian soil as well.

    To me it suggests that if you don`t get behind what our soldiers and government are doing then you will be shot. Isn`t that a direct affront to freedom?
  28. Profile photo of Raptorkat
    Raptorkat Male 18-29
    75 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:08 am
    You are exactly right Steel.. We are from all walks of life. Yes, you are right when you say that @cndman15, their are a few that are exactly like what you say. But, not all of us, I wasn`t a jock, douche, or anything like that. I played sports in high school, yes. But, I was a band nerd.. Oh and I was smarter than everybody else.
  29. Profile photo of dirtysteve00
    dirtysteve00 Male 30-39
    373 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:11 am
    @antangonizer, the kind of people who say that, are generally not the kind of people who would bother working out the implications of such a moronic statement.
  30. Profile photo of Raptorkat
    Raptorkat Male 18-29
    75 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:15 am
    I am a US Marine currently serving, and I did 3 tours over there, and I knew that. I`m not fighting for my freedom, your freedom, or any Americans freedom, I`m fighting for Iraqis freedom.

    @cndman15.. Oh yea.. I`m 26, I`m an officer in the United States Marine Corps, and I have a Masters. What are you, still in drating high school? Believe it or now.. My commanding officer, who is a Colonel has a PhD.

    And I will continue to serve my country, till I retire, with my insane benefits package from the Corps, while your still trying to get your pooty garage band up and running and trying to pick up chicks with your pooty philosophy, ya douche.
  31. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:31 am
    @Rapterkat nice brainwashing product there
    What is that "country" you`re speaking of? Isn`t it comprised of those `pooty garage band with pooty philosophy` you hate so much?
    Nationalism, my friend, is invented so that the sheeple will die for their ruler. Happily so.
  32. Profile photo of bumperkar
    bumperkar Female 18-29
    11 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:40 am
    @Raptorkat: Thank you :)

    @cndman15: You`re a dick, plain and simple. Also, you are only in the 13-17 age bracket, meaning that you know NOTHING of the real world. I barely do, and I have been out of high school for a couple years. Stop trying to troll on the people for their life choices, because statistically, you are probably going to join the military once you are of age. When you do, I hope Raptorkat is your commanding officer :)
  33. Profile photo of gbrzeatetee
    gbrzeatetee Male 30-39
    174 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:55 am
    @Raptorkat: cool story bro. Enjoy your insane benefits, el oh el.
  34. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5097 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:58 am
    Steelgrid &co, more Merriam-Webster for you:

    bi·as

    3b: an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment

    cndman15, here`s one for you too:

    prejudice

    a (1): preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
  35. Profile photo of diylobotomy
    diylobotomy Male 18-29
    1832 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    @Raptorkat, I for one appreciate you serving. So that millions of crooked ass bastards like cndman15 can have the right to talk poo on the internet. Thank you, sir.
  36. Profile photo of Locke357
    Locke357 Male 18-29
    128 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 12:14 pm
    @Raptorkat: how can you call if the Iraqi`s freedom IF THEY DON`T WANT YOU THERE
  37. Profile photo of OutWest
    OutWest Male 50-59
    546 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 12:16 pm
    .... he has a politcal agenda, and promotes it publicly and openly.

    So... why would this be different?
  38. Profile photo of Raptorkat
    Raptorkat Male 18-29
    75 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 12:23 pm
    Seriously man.. Benefits. Being an being a decorated combat veteran, plus I`m a Captain. I have at least 13 more years to go till I retire from the Corps, and I plan to make at least Colonel by then.. You should see those guys houses.
  39. Profile photo of Raptorkat
    Raptorkat Male 18-29
    75 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 12:27 pm
    And you are right Locke, some of them don`t want us there. Some of em, just like here, some of us don`t want us over there either. But the majority, like us being over there. If anyone has a chance to visit the Middle East, go, see how different it is over there now. Its amazing. Being on patrol, its common for an Iraqi to come up to you and for them to tell you, "Thanks". Its an amazing feeling.
  40. Profile photo of cndman15
    cndman15 Male 18-29
    328 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 12:59 pm
    trololol
  41. Profile photo of Bremir
    Bremir Male 18-29
    392 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 1:10 pm
    It makes me laugh when Americans make the claim their soldiers are serving so the general public can have the "freedoms" they have.

    Because it seems to me the only people on this planet who are vocal about fighting for freedoms are Americans. Everyone else in the world is, for the most part, very happy. We get up and go about our days feeling pretty good and happy, to be honest with you.

    But not Americans. Oh no. It`s all about "we need to fight for our freedoms!". Get up every morning thinking "I`m so glad our soldiers are fighting so I have my rights to own this box of cereal!".

    If there is a nation on this planet that is so full of ****, it is America. The only people on the planet who go on about freedom, losing freedom, people fighting for their right to have this or to have that.

    And the best part is, they even fight amongst themselves because they don`t even trust each other. And there are still plenty of countri
  42. Profile photo of Bremir
    Bremir Male 18-29
    392 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 1:11 pm
    countries better off who aren`t fighting in wars every week.

    So all that crap about fighting for your freedom and rights is bull.
  43. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 1:33 pm
    Read Fiasco by Thomas E. Ricks. It really fleshes out the Neo-con worldview in the wake of Soviet collapse and the policy conflicts between the SecDef faction (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz)who pushed for the war and SecState (Colin Powell)who was opposed to it. (He eventually supported it because he was given erroneous intelligence gathered by the SecDef through different channels than the mainstream intelligence community. It also points to the role of the New York Times (Judith Miller) in drumming up support for the war by falsely reporting that there were in fact WMDs in Iraq.
  44. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Bremir: And the best part is, they even fight amongst themselves because they don`t even trust each other.

    Excuse me, but just how many riots have european countries dealt with in the last 4 years ? I can remember a half dozen or so off the top of my head. Fix your own damn EU before you go criticizing the USA.
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 2:08 pm
    Wesley Clark has been a democrat ideologue for a long time now, I seriously doubt any republican would`ve shared such inside information with him.

    Notice how he stealthily backs away from his claim about "Seven countries in five years memo", saying he didn`t see it. Even telling someone like him, a retiree, confidential information would be a crime. I seriously doubt his claims, they are all hearsay with no evidence to back them up.
  46. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 2:19 pm
    Lolz
  47. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 2:20 pm
    "Wesley Clark has been a democrat ideologue for a long time now, I seriously doubt any republican would`ve shared such inside information with him. "

    There you go, hiding behind political parties. What would you have done had this been a republican trying to give Americans the truth huh?

    Ol` boy with the lil Webster "oh I can define word" bullpoo. None of what you tried to show had anything to do with the argument.

    To the douche talking about "Europeans dont feel like they have to fight for their freedom, only Americans"........Guess thats why we had to come SAVE your ass from Germany, jackoff. Or is the Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg not important.
  48. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 2:28 pm
    @Raptorkat, I for one appreciate you serving. So that millions of crooked ass bastards like cndman15 can have the right to talk poo on the internet. Thank you, sir.

    This is what I`m talking about. No one fighting in Iraq is fighting for any sort of rights like this. We`re just over their forcing our view of what government should be, that way we don`t have to worry about. . communism? WTF, I thought we were out of the 80`s. =|
  49. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 2:33 pm
    LMGDAO. `we save yer asses frum dem natzis, rabble rabble.` America would not have been in the war if there wasn`t something in it from them. And don`t give me that Pearl Harbor BS, like we didn`t incite the Japanese.
  50. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 2:38 pm
    Steelgrid: What would you have done had this been a republican trying to give Americans the truth huh?

    It depends on the person`s integrity, Clark has very little in that regard and he has made some rather outrageous claims that he can`t prove, especially during election times.

    At this point I wouldn`t trust Wesley Clark to be a school crossing guard.
  51. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5097 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 2:42 pm
    My points are that you aren`t defending your borders, you are invading other countries, and that you are biased because you are military yourself.

    Relevant to the discussion?
  52. Profile photo of PierreJeanFR
    PierreJeanFR Male 40-49
    1360 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 3:52 pm
    nothing we didn`t know, but I knew Crakrjakass would
    somehow rant on Clark credibility. maybe he`s (Arsecrak) a useless fanatic after all.
  53. Profile photo of PierreJeanFR
    PierreJeanFR Male 40-49
    1360 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 3:54 pm
    No better than some jihadist!
  54. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 4:54 pm
    PierreJeanFR: You rant on Fox news credibility but at least they get sources and evidence for their stories, not just hearsay.
  55. Profile photo of Nillows
    Nillows Male 13-17
    15 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 5:16 pm
    They`re trying to make a philosopher`s stone
  56. Profile photo of FartSmeller
    FartSmeller Male 50-59
    33 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 6:09 pm
    A coup. Wow, I knew Bush couldn`t have done all that stupid stuff. The coup leaders must have made a human sized puppet that they controlled with wires after they killed Bush.
  57. Profile photo of sethmccary
    sethmccary Male 18-29
    208 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 6:21 pm
    @ bremir Suck it. Americans are at least more open about the control we exert over other countries whilst the wanks just sneak up behind less advanced countries, (mostly in Africa), stick their whole arm up their arse and use them for puppets.
  58. Profile photo of mst3k
    mst3k Male 18-29
    79 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 7:03 pm
    there goes crakrjak again
  59. Profile photo of scapegoat7
    scapegoat7 Male 18-29
    210 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 7:27 pm
    HYPOTHETICAL WORST SCENARIO
    1. Get into numerous wars we can`t pay for
    2. National debt rises to enormous rates
    3. Value of dollar depreciates
    4. OPEC drops the dollar (imports triple in cost)

    Now honestly, if a neo-con was president, they would default on our loans (on purpose), and probably start nuking china or at least send thousands if not millions of our troops to their death. Mean time the terrorists get stronger (maybe get their hands on sum nukes (pakistan/iran). Either way we`re drated the way we`re going
  60. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 7:59 pm
    France helped the US win the revolutionary war (1775–1783) ending in the signing of the Treaty of Paris.

    The US helps (with other countries such as Canada and Britain) liberate France in August 1944.

    And yet, americans seem to feel the need to throw it in their faces on a regular basis.

    Seems to me that the US merely showed up to help, while France personally risked war with Britain in aiding the US.

    Who helped who more?
  61. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:03 pm
    @Raptorkat
    "I am a US Marine currently serving, and I did 3 tours over there, and I knew that. I`m not fighting for my freedom, your freedom, or any Americans freedom, I`m fighting for Iraqis freedom."

    I don`t doubt your sincere belief in fighting for the Iraqi`s freedom. However that is a myth perpetuated to you by conditioning from false ideology by higher ups. Exactly what Clark was talking about.

    You seem to forget that as an American your fore-fathers rose up on their own. Through their own revolution and overthrew their oppressors.

    By being there and doing it for the Iraqi`s, do you think they will be able to sustain their freedom from a dictator, or a oppressive cleric regime like in Iran?

    Once the USA and other European countries leave. The house of ideological freedom embraced by America will collapse because a false foundation was established.

    Countries, liken unto a man, must learn to fish for themselves first to
  62. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:11 pm
    Antagonizer, the reason why the French helped the U.S. in the Revolutionary War was BECAUSE it was against the British. If you remember your history, France and England weren`t exactly what you would call "BFF`s." And your broad generalization of Americans needing to throw the liberation of Paris in everyone`s face insults me and the millions of Americans who think we shouldn`t make anything out of it, let alone a big deal.

    So, exactly what was your point in that post? My guess: to incite rage among other Americans, to make us look barbaric.

    Obvious troll is obvious.
  63. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:18 pm
    @atangonizer
    Yes France helped some in the Revolutionary war. It was not until 4 yours after independence did they land a small amount of troops at Newport to help. They also helped with small skirmishes at sea.

    However it did not take much for France to get involved due to several reasons. Most notably their hatred for the British from over previous centuries of warfare, and a recent beat down by the British in the French and Indian war.

    Second a play for economic power in the New World.

    Third the king needed to take pressure off for rising unrest in France by diverting his countries attention.

    Which is what America is doing recently. We are heading for a revolution if this country doesn`t quit spending enormous amounts of taxpayers money to so call "protect Americas freedom from foreign enemies". Just like what will happen to Louis XVI in 1789 just a few years after the American revolution. History always repeats itself because fool
  64. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:20 pm
    continued....people do not pay attention in history class.

    "History is boring! Why do I have to take this stupid class" as the idiot student tweets away.
  65. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:21 pm
    Sachi, what would you have us do? Simply leave? As you say, the house of ideological freedom will collapse because a false foundation was established.

    I will not disagree with the point that we should not have gone in in the first place. Someone decided to play a massive shell game with the rest of the world, diverting our attention to Iraq while the prize was in Afghanistan then Pakistan. Who was involved, I cannot say. I can only speculate that the CIA saw this as a huge opportunity to rid themselves of a mess that was named Saddam Hussein. But, that is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that the Iraq government was stripped away and rebuilt (although I`m not happy with how it is arranged). To leave it now would be to invite tragedy as it would tear itself apart from the inside. We have to be there long enough to help strengthen it against reasonable stress, both domestic and foreign.
  66. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:29 pm
    IMHO I`m going out on a limb here and calling that America will fall on it`s face due to havoc by inept politicians and their voters. This should be in less than ten years and the result will be a new Napoleon. Then Americans can wonder why they will be f*&cked even more because your freedoms your accustomed toward will disappear. Already it`s happening with such like the patriot Act.

    Here`s the kicker. The world better wake up as well. As America will be even a worse nightmare than what you European trolls think they are now. You thought Bush was a Cowboy wait till you get someone like Rick Perry jacked up on cocaine.
  67. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:34 pm
    @Sachi001 All of that is my point.

    You quibble over the technicalities of WHY France decided to help the US against the British, minimizing their contribution.

    Yet, when it comes to the US assistance in liberation of France, you phrase it as it was their goal all along. It wasn`t. The only reason americans were even on french soil was to get a foothold on the European mainland and attack a perceived threat to american soil.

    Their liberation was simply a tertiary objective meaning you assisted them because you needed to, not because you wanted to.

    France didn`t NEED to help the US...but they did.
  68. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:41 pm
    @mvangild
    Deep quagmire isn`t it that the US has put itself. We feel that we are obligated and they will fall if we leave don`t we? Already it backs up what I say about our confidence in this country to preserve it`s freedom. Choice is spend loads more of tax money which is crushing us and more deaths of out young and theirs. Else pull out and let the fledgling chick learn to fly.
    I say they have one more year and we are out. Soar or crash. They have to grow on their own and if they want to be enemies then it will bite them in the ass later. Else trade and be friends.

    Do you not think this wise approach or do you want to still coddle them?
  69. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 8:53 pm
    @atogonizer
    You said:
    "And yet, Americans seem to feel the need to throw it in their faces on a regular basis.

    Seems to me that the US merely showed up to help, while France personally risked war with Britain in aiding the US."

    It was minimal and it was a necessity of France to go to war as I stated previous.

    Second My wife and my family both fought (WWII) in France, Italy and the Pacific. They have never thrown such in the face of the French as do many of other vets that I know. Most don`t even want to remember the war and rarely talk about it. Where is it that we constantly throw it back at the French?

    Third when the allies landed at Normandy. France was no longer French it was German.


  70. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14629 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:11 pm
    Elect this man.
  71. Profile photo of andfrank03
    andfrank03 Male 18-29
    68 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 9:46 pm
    "War is Peace" George Orwell, `1984`

    Thank goodness we have freedom of speech in this country.
  72. Profile photo of antagonizer
    antagonizer Male 18-29
    508 posts
    September 4, 2011 at 11:29 pm
    @Sachi001 "Second My wife and my family both fought (WWII) in France, Italy and the Pacific."

    Wow, your wife and family would have to be, lets see...war ended 66 years ago and you had to be at least 18 to join...

    Sachi001
    Male, 30-39
    Asia

    Don`t think so sport. lol I call bs on you. You`re out.



  73. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 12:59 am
    "It was minimal and it was a necessity of France to go to war as I stated previous." Absolute BS. The British would have won without the help of the French. America would not be a free nation without their help.
  74. Profile photo of scapegoat7
    scapegoat7 Male 18-29
    210 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 1:19 am
    "What if occupying countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, and bombing Pakistan is directly related to the hatred directed towards us. What if the American people woke-up and understood the official reasons for going to war are always based on lies and promoted by war propaganda, to serve special interest groups. What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest for empire eventually destroys ALL great nations." -RON PAUL --PLEAZE WAKE UP--
  75. Profile photo of Jowsh
    Jowsh Male 18-29
    1237 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 3:12 am
    @Draculya +1.

    He has painted a bit of a giant target on his head though...Say hello to mister phone tap!
  76. Profile photo of Samsquanch
    Samsquanch Male 30-39
    792 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 3:32 am
    " America would not be a free nation without their help."
    Bwa-ahahaha! This kills me every time I hear it. What, is Canada not a free nation? Australia? New Zealand?
  77. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 3:47 am
    @antagonizer

    No my wifes unc;es and father and my uncles and grandfather fought in WWII. Smartass you knew what I meant.
  78. Profile photo of mal_BB
    mal_BB Male 18-29
    1231 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 7:53 am
    The French only helped out the US because at the time we (the British) were at war with them; they didn`t like us and we threatened to cut off their trade routs. They still don`t like us; during the Falklands they sold arms to the Argentinians claiming `business is business`. Only two things speak when it comes to war; power and money. Everything else is BS.
  79. Profile photo of xavroche
    xavroche Male 30-39
    819 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 11:11 am
    While I think General Clark raises some good points, I think it needs to be put in perspective at this point that Clark was involved in political self promotion. His views are therefore biased.

    Also that the NeoCon agenda was put to the forefront after 9/11 and that part of that agenda was a projection of force for political change is not a secret.

    In essence what I`m getting at is that I`m not sure what conspiracy is being referred to. A conspiracy implies something hidden. All of this is public general knowledge, even the actors have never denied their policy aims and both the project for the new american century and the wolfowitz doctrine in general have been public and openly available.

    Yes, in my opinion too much power was given to the executive branch after 9/11, yes, again in my opinion the foreign policy doctrine after 9/11 was toxic, but talking about a conspiracy implies a hidden agenda, and as far as I can tell there wasn`t one.
  80. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    --Here`s the kicker. The world better wake up as well. As America will be even a worse nightmare than what you European trolls think they are now.--

    Wait until our dollar falls flat while we are still out in the middle east and then can`t afford to bring our soldiers back.

  81. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Bwa-ahahaha! This kills me every time I hear it. What, is Canada not a free nation? Australia? New Zealand?

    This kills me. .
    Yeah, they are now free of British reign. . BUT, they got theirs through diplomacy, unlike the United States. Learn up on yer history.
  82. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 7:33 pm
    I met his predecessor in the SACEUR role when i was attached to the us military from the uk...he was a right miserable twat most of the time... wish we`d had this guy instead he seems a bit more straight talking and respectable.... he`s saying here what lots of people already suspect, but it`s nice to hear someone high up saying it.

    I`m sure there`s a political reason for him doing so as well as a moral one...but I for one believe him - The Bush administration and it`s advisors were hell bent on regime change in the middle east and lied to the population in order to legitimise it. That`s not conspiracy theory, it`s a fact...they said there were wmd there, and it was a lie. It wasn`t just wrong, the intel told the politicians there were doubts about it and the politicians ignored that and told their people the lie that it was 100% guaranteed. Blair did the same over here cause he was that eager to curry favour with Bush.
  83. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 7:42 pm
    @Crakrjak "Wesley Clark has been a democrat ideologue for a long time now, I seriously doubt any republican would`ve shared such inside information with him."

    Are you referring to the Joint Chiefs officer he says gave him the info? If so, then it wasn`t really a democrat speaking to a republican... it was a soldier speaking to another soldier and sharing military stuff, not politics... even at those ranks that only those versed in politics get to, the camaraderie of soldiers would take precedent I think... when soldiers get together they talk military stuff not politics.
  84. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    September 5, 2011 at 8:40 pm
    @Sachi,

    The problem with the "fly or fall" methodology is that we are leaving the future of Iraq to chance. So, let`s say the government fails. There is a non-negligible probability that whoever takes on the leadership role will be hostile to the U.S., allowing al Qaeda (sp?) to base operations there, financing terrorist cells, etc. The more likely scenario is that a military leader in the region will stage a coup to take over the government, set himself up as leader for life, begin a massive "ethnic cleansing" which will inevitably include killing off the Kurdish population in the north, and destroy whatever hopes Iraq may have had for democracy. This person will also most likely allow al Qaeda cells in the country, because he blames the U.S. (rightly so) for the destruction of his country and the lives of so many of his family/friends/acquaintances, all the while paying lip service to the U.S. that these "terrorists must be stopped."
  85. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    September 6, 2011 at 12:38 am
    The title is misleading- "admit" is not the right word, as it implies that Clark claims he took an active role in the coup, which he did not. He is accusing others of a coup, and is clearly condemning their actions. While I think Clark`s criticisms of the Bush administration are entirely valid, his accusations aren`t as damning as it would be for someone like Rumsfeld to come out and say "yeah, I admit that we capitalized on 9/11 by pushing a foreign policy agenda that we had outlined long before the attacks occurred- my bad!"
  86. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 6, 2011 at 7:21 pm
    @mvangild

    That is forecasting "what if" scenarios. We do not know what the future holds for the Iraqi`s. Eventually we will have to leave. If the foundation of the local populace is not strong then yes a dictator can just come swooping in again etc...

    The Iraqi`s have had 5000 years to get their act together. We can`t hold their hand forever, and we can`t worry about every two bit evil jack ass that pops up and threatens the USA.

    We left South Vietnam. It failed but then became unified. Now the Vietnamese are trying to become our ally.Therefore so much for the evil communists.

    George Washington our founding father who set much of the Executive Branch precedents that laid a core foundation for this country. He emphatically stated in his farewell address that we should avoid making permanent alliances. That includes Iraq. I agree with him.

    Iraq need to be on it`s own now. Ditto with Afghanistan. Both countries have been around longer
  87. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    September 6, 2011 at 7:24 pm
    than the New World and they will survive as the USA will also. We just need to be more vigilant on our borders.
  88. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    September 7, 2011 at 7:23 am
    So they just wanted to cut down the front lines a bit. I don`t agree with how they went about it but I understand why they did it. It`s hard to fight one country if you have a hand full of others sneaking up behind you.

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