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Date: 08/07/11 09:00 AM

44 Responses to Warren Buffet & Bill Gates Talk Taxes

  1. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 7:00 am
    Link: Warren Buffet & Bill Gates Talk Taxes - Even they agree our tax system benefits the wealthy.
  2. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 10:33 am
    Warren Buffet is the man, man.
  3. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 10:34 am
    You can`t really argue when two of the most successful men in the world make a point...

    They kinda have to know what they`re talking about, otherwise they wouldn`t be where they are.
  4. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 10:35 am
    yep. It benefits the rich only. Thats why theyve both pledged 99% of their money to charities and good causes. Now if only the rest of the rich would follow suit.
  5. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 11:04 am
    This disgusts me, especially since these men know what it takes to make money. They`re pretty much implying that the rich are somehow less entitled to the money they make than other people i.e. they`re implying that rich people are not entitled to the wealth they created.

    It`s fine that they want to give their own wealth that they created away, but to suggest that other men`s wealth should be FORCIBLY taken away at the point of a gun--I think it`s unspeakable.

    This is why I respect Steve Jobs a hell of a lot more than Bill Gates. I can easily see Jobs standing on a podium saying, "I created this; it`s a great product/company and I expect to get very rich off of it--and I will have earned it."

    It`s like Buffet and Gates are ashamed to be rich.
  6. Profile photo of Klamz
    Klamz Male 18-29
    689 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 11:14 am
    2 Things to, 1 they are not the 2 most successful men in the WORLD, Carlos Helu would be one of them.

    And last I checked Gates only pledged 50% of his money not 99% unless he`s updated it.

    So stop making things up.
  7. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 11:23 am
    They`re pretty much implying that the rich are somehow less entitled to the money they make than other people i.e. they`re implying that rich people are not entitled to the wealth they created.
    No, what they`re implying is that every man is equally entitled to the wealth he earned.

    Then they ask why it is that the wealthy can take advantage of various loopholes in the tax system and not pay anything while the lower income people are forced to hand over what they`ve earned.
  8. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 11:26 am
    1 they are not the 2 most successful men in the WORLD, Carlos Helu would be one of them.
    You will note, if you are not dyslexic, that I said "2 OF THE most successful men in the world," not "THE 2 most successful men."

    Big difference to anyone who understands basic english.
  9. Profile photo of Wildcats2008
    Wildcats2008 Male 18-29
    237 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 11:33 am
    When I think of a flat income tax I think of everyone paying the EXACT amount as a percentage as everyone else. No exceptions, no loopholes

    Lets throw a number out there like an easy 10%.

    If you make $10,000/year then you pay 1,000
    If you make $10,000,000/year then you pay 1,000,000

    And you would make the number so it encompasses ALL taxes. Capital gains, income, payroll, etc.

    It is all proportional and everyone pays "their fair share". Plus you could drastically cut the IRS spending.

    I know there will be a lot of people who disagree and I accept that it will never happen because this isn`t "fair"
  10. Profile photo of Buiadh
    Buiadh Male 30-39
    6739 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 12:45 pm
    [email protected], Ahh Americans and their silly outdated ideals.
  11. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 12:47 pm
    @Wildcats:

    Allow me to to explain why some consider the tax structure you propose unfair.

    The poor person in your example, earning $10K/yr, is going to have to spend about $35/wk on food, $500/month on rent, $60/month on public transportation, and $10/month on clothing. That amounts to $8,660/yr just to survive.

    If we deduct these survival expenses from the incomes of both poor person and rich person, we are left with their discretionary incomes:

    Poor person discretionary income: $1,340.
    Rich person discretionary income: $9,991,340.

    If we then deduct their taxes (10% of gross income) from their discretionary incomes, we see what their effective tax rates are:

    Poor person: 75% tax rate.
    Rich person: 10% tax rate.

    This is why the flat tax structure you propose is described by economists as "regressive": it tends to trap the poor in poverty while helping the rich become richer.
  12. Profile photo of jpfu220
    jpfu220 Male 18-29
    65 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    fair tax ftw!
  13. Profile photo of DickenMcHunt
    DickenMcHunt Male 18-29
    1299 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 2:10 pm
    @ M. Archer

    Steve Jobs draws a $1 Annual Salary and pays taxes on his one dollar salary- every year. The rest of his money comes from stock leveraging, exactly what Warren Buffet was speaking about, Via Apple, Pixar, Disney, etc.

    If I could have all the money I have now- but only pay taxes on $1 of it per year- I would stand on a podium and talk about how I expect to get rich, too.
  14. Profile photo of Wildcats2008
    Wildcats2008 Male 18-29
    237 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 3:26 pm
    Squrls - Ah, but here is the thing. You used that those same numbers on both the poor and the rich person. If I were making $10 mil I would be spending a hell of a lot more money on all those expenses. So sure, if the rich person wanted to live in poverty. They`d spend like they made $10k but that is seriously not going to happen.

    When you don`t make a lot of money you don`t get a whole lot of discretionary income.

    I still think it is fair (and trust me, I`m not rich even by Obama`s standards).

    The only other "fair" option is throw away the old tax system and putting a consumption tax on everything you buy that takes the place of all taxes. That way you don`t spend money you don`t pay taxes.

    Why I think most people are always screaming the rich need to pay "their fair share" is the same reason the bully picks on other kids. He/she wants to pull them down to their level.
  15. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    Why I think most people are always screaming the rich need to pay "their fair share" is the same reason the bully picks on other kids. He/she wants to pull them down to their level.
    Sounds to me like you`ve got your analogy mixed up.

    It`s more like every other kid in the classroom is sick of having their lunch money taken by a bully who gets free or reduced cost lunch and they`re complaining to the teacher.

    And the teacher should probably do something or the rest of the kids are gonna explode one of these days...
  16. Profile photo of MusicMan123
    MusicMan123 Male 18-29
    3 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 6:26 pm
    12%!!! You Guys have it easy lol

    In the UK:
    First £7k tax free
    Up to £35k = 20%
    Up to £150k = 40%
    Over £150k = 50%

    And thats just income tax, not to mention our 20% Vat and all the other things
  17. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 7:26 pm
    When Buffet starting talking about the tax system, I was instantly confused. The tax system is so confusing, that you have to go to accounting school to understand it, and you can commit tax crimes without even being aware of it--all the more reason for there to be a flat tax. Of course, in a perfect society, the government should be funded through voluntary measures e.g. two corporations pay the government to enforce a contract.

    @Altaru: I recall Buffet saying "we should be paying more"

    @Dicken: You are entitled to the money you make and so is Jobs. I`ve never heard that story about Jobs, but there`s nothing immoral about that.
  18. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 8:21 pm
    @Altaru: I recall Buffet saying "we should be paying more"
    Yeah, because he barely HAS to pay at all.

    If you were listening, he made a comment about an assistant that has no choice but to pay more in taxes than he does, because said assistant isn`t as rich and can`t take advantage of as many loopholes as he can.

    He only pays his taxes by choice, because he has a million ways to avoid them.

    @Dicken: You are entitled to the money you make and so is Jobs. I`ve never heard that story about Jobs, but there`s nothing immoral about that.
    Steve Jobs is a con man. You respect a con man, pure and simple.

    You`re going to accept abuse of the system just because the system can be abused? And then claim that those who DO abuse the system are just as entitled to what they swindle as the rest of the people who bust their asses to get where they end up.
  19. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 9:03 pm
    Why Yes Warren the rich should pay higher taxes. afterall you lead by example. what a bunch of heaping BS. Freaking Hypocrites


    http://tusb.stanford.edu/2007/07/warren_buffet_has_a_lower_tax.html
  20. Profile photo of Klamz
    Klamz Male 18-29
    689 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 9:10 pm
    When you have to resort to picking apart your own syntax, you`ve already lost the argument Altaru.
  21. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 10:07 pm
    If you had $1 billion, and you wanted it to be used to create jobs, who would you give it to?

    A. Warren Buffet
    B. Bill Gates
    C. Barack Obama
  22. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 10:23 pm
    @Altaru: Your assertion is textbook Argument from Intimidation Fallacy.

    And I hardly think keeping your money that you rightfully earned is called "swindling".
  23. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 11:05 pm
    If you had $1 billion, and you wanted it to be used to create jobs, who would you give it to?

    A. Warren Buffet
    B. Bill Gates
    C. Barack Obama


    I would use it myself.

    Bill Gates would donate it to AIDS research or Africa or something like that. Buffet would also donate it, and if not he`d just invest it with all his other stuff.
    Obama would create some jobs, but he wouldn`t use it entirely for that.

    If it was down to me I`d use $100k of it to find out the "optimal job-making strategy", and then the rest to actually execute it. Maybe it would be a massive round of Dragons den, where it`s all partitioned to promising entrepreneurs.

    But my question is why? You have this obsession with "creating jobs" as if that will fix your problem entirely. It won`t.

    There are much better ways of using a billion than simply `creating jobs`.
  24. Profile photo of Errand_boy
    Errand_boy Male 30-39
    621 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 11:51 pm
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    Nice chat old chums. Until next wence we meet, CHEERIO!
  25. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 4:48 am
    "Even they agree our tax system benefits the wealthy"

    Errrrmmmmm ... neither of them has any conspicuous talent in economic theory. Why is their opinion any more relevant than mine?
  26. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36654 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 7:33 am

    Nice to see the art of talking in circles hasn`t died.
  27. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 7:38 am
    When you have to resort to picking apart your own syntax, you`ve already lost the argument Altaru.
    I was simply pointing out that you apparently can`t read. As I said, I said "two OF the," not "the two." If you can`t even understand syntax, then you have no argument. You`re just some moron throwing in his two cents.

    Not that you`re anything more than that anyway.

    And I hardly think keeping your money that you rightfully earned is called "swindling".
    Last I knew, getting money through cheating the system (not to mention the people with a sh*tty, over-marketed product) is considered swindling. And that`s exactly how Steve jobs makes his money: by cheating the system.

    There are plenty of examples of Steve Jobs cheating both the system and other people if you actually look into his past. Like I said: what you`re supporting is abusing the system just because it can be abused. Because that`s what S
  28. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 7:46 am
    @Altaru: Your assertion is textbook Argument from Intimidation Fallacy.
    It`s more like historical accuracy.

    The rich get richer, the bosses get bossier, the poor get poorer. Eventually, the poor get sick and tired of busting their asses so the rich and bosses can keep all that they`ve worked for.

    The poor rise up, and things go to hell. Should we wait until that happens, or solve the problem now?
  29. Profile photo of chrn368
    chrn368 Male 18-29
    174 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 8:02 am
    Well random because they are both multi-billionaires that run multi-billion dollar a year companies, They better have some intricate knowledge of tax systems, and they do. They know how to play it, that`s why they`re rich.
  30. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 8:23 am
    neither of them has any conspicuous talent in economic theory. Why is their opinion any more relevant than mine?
    Probably because they`re insanely rich.

    Gates may not have much to say, since he made his money through having a useful product and all that, but Buffett is an investor. He HAS to understand the rules of the world of economics, because he makes his money by playing the game.

    So yes, at the very least Buffett DOES a fair amount of talent in economics. Not theory, practice, which is a hell of a lot more useful since it actually makes people rich and, you know, works in the real world.
  31. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 10:08 am
    Hmmm well considering they`ve deemed themselves the experts why don`t they help bail out the country that made them rich???
  32. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14268 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 11:10 am
    @Buiadh

    Ya the UKs so fantastic how are those riots going for ya?? What`s this I hear about a police shooting I thought you all thought "GUNZ IZ BAD!"???
  33. Profile photo of ThunderDiety
    ThunderDiety Male 30-39
    19 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 12:15 pm
    Most of the 100k people think they are the 100m people. That`s why middle class and even lower classes than that get up in arms about taxes. Not smart enough to know what benefits the whole.
  34. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 6:29 pm
    @Altaru: Steve Jobs makes his money by creating products and selling them to people willing to buy them. He created his wealth. Even if your dubious claims of him cheating the tax system are true (do you have a cite?), there is nothing immoral about him wanting to keep the wealth that he created that rightfully belongs to him.

    And I don`t believe that about that "the poor will rise up" since I don`t believe that an entire class of people has the looter/thief mindset.
  35. Profile photo of ak9882
    ak9882 Male 18-29
    39 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 8:55 pm
    Buffett has no talent in economic theory? Do you know what his job is?
  36. Profile photo of ak9882
    ak9882 Male 18-29
    39 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 9:03 pm
    And to all of you who are saying "Let the rich keep the money that they have worked so hard to earn", I`m sorry to hear that you are siding with the Blankfein`s of the world.
  37. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 8, 2011 at 11:51 pm
    Steve Jobs makes his money by creating products and selling them to people willing to buy them.
    No, Steve Jobs makes his money by cheating other people out of their hard work. Ever hear what he did to Steve Wozniak with Atari?

    Steve was supposed to design a circuit board for Breakout. He would be paid $100 for every chip eliminated from the circuitry. He had Woz do all the work, since he had neither knowledge nor interest in the subject (another example of him being a good con artist: he got a job with no knowledge of how to do it), claiming he would split the money evenly. Wox eliminated 50 chips. Steve only gave him $350. Apparently, half of $5000 is $350 now.

    And that`s what Jobs does. He`s a con man, straight up. And it`s because Apple is under his control now that it went from producing innovative technology to pretty, over-marketed and over-priced sh*t.
  38. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    August 9, 2011 at 12:04 am
    Basically, what you respect is a snake-oil salesman. He has all the charisma, charm, and pretty words he needs to take advantage of people. Besides that he`s a talent-less hack. Apparently that`s respectable now.

    Do you respect drug dealers too? After all, they make a product people want (or they convince people they want with the "first line`s free" and other tactics), they can make it rich with said product, and they take advantage of "loopholes" to get out of paying taxes on the massive incomes they can make through selling the product.
  39. Profile photo of M_Archer
    M_Archer Male 18-29
    525 posts
    August 10, 2011 at 12:05 am
    In that case you described, Jobs thought he was only going to get paid $750; it was implied that Wozniak was going to get only $375 at the end. You have a point, but their "contract" was too vague and open to many interpretations; in my mind, the accused is right in the case of ambiguity--but that`s just me.

    I quote your victim, Wozniak: " not concerned with what contribution he’s making. He wants to astound himself, for himself." Apple almost went out of business with the "innovation" you said Apple did in the past. Now, they`re one of the most successful corporations in the world. Jobs created something people will buy--he created wealth, because he wanted to astound himself for his own selfish reasons; I respect him for that.

    And I`ll say it again in case you didn`t understand me the first time: your assertion that I "respect a con man" is textbook Argument from Intimidation fallacy.
  40. Profile photo of MrLill
    MrLill Male 18-29
    371 posts
    August 10, 2011 at 2:41 am
    anytime you hear a windows sound when opening, bill gates makes a dollar.
  41. Profile photo of KPres
    KPres Male 30-39
    309 posts
    August 13, 2011 at 9:28 am
    Too bad both Bill and Warren are demonstrably wrong. Our taxes are progressive no matter how you look at it (statutory, effective, whatever).

    Fair tax = flat tax. The rich pay more than their fair share.
  42. Profile photo of KPres
    KPres Male 30-39
    309 posts
    August 13, 2011 at 9:33 am
    "Gates may not have much to say, since he made his money through having a useful product and all that, but Buffett is an investor. He HAS to understand the rules of the world of economics, because he makes his money by playing the game."

    Not true. Understanding the stock market =/= understanding the economy. Plus, Buffett is only successful because of his vast network of political connections that give him inside information about upcoming public policy.
  43. Profile photo of KPres
    KPres Male 30-39
    309 posts
    August 13, 2011 at 9:38 am
    "If you were listening, he made a comment about an assistant that has no choice but to pay more in taxes than he does, because said assistant isn`t as rich and can`t take advantage of as many loopholes as he can. "

    Yeah, that assistant makes like $250,000/year. He/she is rich, too. That`s just a case of one rich person finding more loopholes than another.

    Regardless, it`s just an anecdote.

    The overall stats show the rich pay a significantly higher percentage than everybody else.
  44. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    August 14, 2011 at 7:51 pm
    smrt :P

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