Unlimited Detail Real-Time Rendering: A Preview

Submitted by: Fizban 5 years ago in Tech

The future of gaming has arrived and it is beautiful. *tear*
There are 52 comments:
Male 102
/jaw dropped
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Male 646
The narrator has an incredibly annoying voice.
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Male 1,744
i could see this being an issue in a game environment when the game engine designer have to figure out collision. It`s easy when you just compare polygons, but compare millions of atoms to millions of other atoms. This won`t be easy to integrate into games, but it eventually will be done, and I for one can`t wait cuz it`ll be awesome.
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Male 12,365
[quote">So from what I see, this works great for fixed scenery, and poorly for animation. Perhaps game designers should go to a hybrid technique where backgrounds are rendered this way, and all moving objects are added in with conventional polygon rendering.[/quote">

That`s been done in various games since 1992.

Here`s a link showing some of them

This isn`t a new idea and it isn`t unlimited no matter how many times they say it is. The hybrid approach also has problems, which is why it isn`t used more often despite the fact that it`s been around for 20 years.

If this bunch have some secret new techniques that nobody else has managed to think of that solves problems that appear to be impossible with current technology, they`ll need to produce some evidence of it to convince anyone other than co
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Male 12,365
[quote]uunxx, they just haven`t got the resources on the design side so repeating is easy to show lots of a large landscape but they are individual objects being handled as such, if they were unique it would be no different.[/quote]

Yes it would. The most obvious difference is the amount of data required. You can`t use procedural generation for a whole gameworld, it just doesn`t work at all realistically. So you must have some data and the more unique objects you have in the gameworld the more data you must have for rendering them. Data that you need to store, data that you need to transfer between storage and processing, data that you need to process. It rapidly exceeds the abilities of current technology by multiple orders of magnitude.
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Male 194
So from what I see, this works great for fixed scenery, and poorly for animation. Perhaps game designers should go to a hybrid technique where backgrounds are rendered this way, and all moving objects are added in with conventional polygon rendering.
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Male 48
Finker, read the link below from Notch`s blog. It details pretty well exactly why it`s not a lack of creativity, but rather a requirement to get the movie working. The data required to perform a square kilometer of these "atoms" is insane, something no home computer will be able to do for years to come.
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Male 878
The narrator sounds like a nonce
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Male 120
@Tearon: that`s what I`ve wrote about, but is more half-truth than a scam - it`s existing technology that is currently hardly usable.
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Male 147
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Male 505
uunxx, they just haven`t got the resources on the design side so repeating is easy to show lots of a large landscape but they are individual objects being handled as such, if they were unique it would be no different.
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Male 120
It`s not new technology, what they are trying to hide (and it`s clearly visible in these demos) it`s good only for very repeatable envirinments as the amount of data needed to render real, diverse landscape is killer. Sure it is future of 3D graphics but we still have to wait for it to be usable in practice.
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Male 218
I agree with klamz I wanna be able to knock a pillar over on my enemy or use explosives to make a crater in the ground in which I can later take cover from fire
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Male 21
Is it just me, or does the narrator have the most nasally, self satisfied, annoying voice in the world?
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Male 4,902
sweet
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Male 4,793
Companies are going to go batpoo crazy over this. Unless it requires batpoo crazy amounts of hardware specs, then they may wait a few years when such specs are commonplace.
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Male 621
Thats great, now start putting cheat codes back in games. I don`t like playing fair.
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Male 688
Now add GeoMod architecture to this and I`ll be impressed. So few games actually allow you to change your surroundings unless it`s preset to be changed like a metal panel falling off a wall.

I want to be able to dig into the ground and tunnel underneath things to get where I`m going.

They say it`s open world in some games, open above world maybe, I want to dig so deep a let a balrog out!
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Male 1,081
My RAM would explode.
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Male 1,451
Hoofer, you`re forgetting one key feature: Not every atom is unique. The software pulls atom 1ab943e9 for a piece of dirt, but then it repeats that atom over and over again, and then the clump of dirt as a whole gets repeated over and over again. Look at the trees, or paths, in this demo, they are all VERY details, but they are all repeated ad nauseum.
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Male 570
cacti, not cactuses.
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Male 132
all roughly the same size.Sparse voxel octrees work great for this, as you don’t need to have unique data in each leaf node,but can reference the same data repeatedly (at fixed intervals) with great speedand memory efficiency. This explains how they can have that much data, but it also shows one of the biggest weaknesses of their engine.

Another weakness is that voxels are horrible for doing animation, because there is no current fast algorithms for deforming a voxel cloud based on a skeletal mesh, and if you do keyframe animation, you end up with a LOT of data. It’s possible to rotate, scale and translate individual chunks of voxel data to do simple animation, but it’s not going to look as nice as polygon based animated characters do.

It’s a very pretty and very impressive piece of technology, but they’re carefully avoiding to mention any of the drawbacks, and theyâ
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Male 132
Guys, this is a scam.
"They made a voxel renderer, probably based on sparse voxel octrees. To quote the video, the island in the video is one km^2. Let’s assume a modest island height of just eight meters, and we end up with 0.008 km^3. At 64 atoms per cubic millimeter (four per millimeter), that is a total of 512 000 000 000 000 000 atoms. If each voxel is made up of one byte of data, that is a total of 512 petabytes of information, or about 170 000 three-terrabyte harddrives full of information. In reality, you will need way more than just one byte of data per voxel to do colors and lighting, and the island is probably way taller than just eight meters, so that estimate is very optimistic.

So obviously, it’s not made up of that many unique voxels.

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Female 383
drat me now!
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Male 12,365
They lost me at "unlimited", especially when they repeated it over and over and over again. Obviously, it can`t be true. It puts them in the ludicrous position of claiming that their graphics engine requires no processing and no memory to render anything - if it required any of either, there would be a limit.

Although there`s no real information in this video, it`s clear that they`re using voxels. Which are used in science and medicine...for static objects, because voxels are not well suited to animation of any kind. Notice that there is no animation at all in this video.

Voxels aren`t a radical new technology. They`ve been used in games for years.

Back as far as 1992
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Male 965
Damn
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Male 347
HOOOOLLLYYYYY FUUUUUCKKKKK
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Female 73
sshhhhiiiiii
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Male 1,440
Nerd-gasm
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Male 985
This aussie accent sounds so bad
But Australia coming up the graphics industry isnt much of a surprise, cus we so sexy
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Male 1,540
I see Notch being brought up on I-A-B. Look, people, Notch very well be right, but not because he knows what he`s talking about, just because he might coincidentally be right. Let`s face it, in terms of voxel programming, Notch is terrible at it. Yeah, his voxel-based game is one of the most popular there is right now, but he still did a horrible job at it. There`s anomalies everywhere and some times- Actually, all the time- the rendering engine locks up and all you get is a blank screen with the sky and the UI. What I`m saying is, he needs to learn proper Voxel programming before he goes attacking companies that have millions of dollars invested in them for their technology.
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Female 179
I don`t think they`re missing the point at all, it`s a step, and that`s something. On a different note, MOST ANNOYING AUSSIE ACCENT EVER!
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Male 101
*Graphics circle jerk*

Cool. Graphics will be as realistic as they ever really need to be soon enough. Maybe once we`re finally, finally over the gimmick of realism, we can focus on things looking stylistically good and, more importantly, actually being fun to play and original.
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Male 17

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Male 2,121
IMO this probably isn`t as good as they are saying, but this kind of thing has to be the future. Simply increasing polygons isn`t the way. And besides, everything would probably have to be polygons underneath as the processing power required to model the physics for each atom would be insane.
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Male 2,790
meh. spend less time trying to make a tree look real and try to make a good quality/original game
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Male 612
they are missing the point of gaming graphics.
its not just about how something looks, its about making that object look real as well as interact in a realistic way with the environment as well as the player.

their grains of dirt may look really pretty, but unless they react to wind, walking, running, ect, and of course all at different velocities and trajectories. all they have is a pretty picture, not a game.
and if their technology can`t work with a current gaming or physics engine, its their job to make that happen. not expect other companies to do it for them.
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Male 1,646
Extraordinary claims takes extraordinary evidence, a simple video isn`t it.
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Male 22
Link

I think Notch does a pretty good job of explaining what`s going on here.
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Male 1,931
Believe it when I see it.
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Male 1,011
even if this wasnt a scam ...it would take a LONG time for this to be the norm.
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Male 1,360
fudge yes, have we finally hit the pinnacle of graphics technology?
excited to see what the future will bring
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Male 540
God damn, that guy`s voice is annoying.

As for the technology, there wasn`t a single real-time demonstration of a controlled character/camera moving around their environment, just a load of clips, some sped-up.
I saw nothing to prove that it does what they say.
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Male 670
The most irritating voice in the world?
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Male 25,416
He is way to excited about the whole thing. GOod on em.. Cant wait to see the game created with this.
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Male 1,064
oh god that is beautiful
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Male 1,404
This a bad ass.
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Male 593
I was wondering when the day would come, freakin awesome.
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Male 17
Saw this in 2006 already (though this seems to be an update of the tech) and I`ll say the same thing I said then: Make a game with it and I`ll be impressed, until then it`s a pretty, but useless tech.
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Male 3,061
Goerge Takei?
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Male 125
Link: Unlimited Detail Real-Time Rendering: A Preview [Rate Link] - The future of gaming has arrived and it is beautiful. *tear*
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