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Category: Tech
Date: 08/02/11 02:01 PM

52 Responses to Unlimited Detail Real-Time Rendering: A Preview

  1. Profile photo of Fizban
    Fizban Male 18-29
    125 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:13 pm
    Link: Unlimited Detail Real-Time Rendering: A Preview - The future of gaming has arrived and it is beautiful. *tear*
  2. Profile photo of bacon_pie
    bacon_pie Male 30-39
    3061 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:21 pm
    Goerge Takei?
  3. Profile photo of Prownilo
    Prownilo Male 18-29
    17 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:23 pm
    Saw this in 2006 already (though this seems to be an update of the tech) and I`ll say the same thing I said then: Make a game with it and I`ll be impressed, until then it`s a pretty, but useless tech.
  4. Profile photo of anarchsoul
    anarchsoul Male 30-39
    591 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:27 pm
    I was wondering when the day would come, freakin awesome.
  5. Profile photo of Neagle
    Neagle Male 30-39
    1407 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:29 pm
    This a bad ass.
  6. Profile photo of PacoP42
    PacoP42 Male 13-17
    1064 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:29 pm
    oh god that is beautiful
  7. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25406 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:37 pm
    He is way to excited about the whole thing. GOod on em.. Cant wait to see the game created with this.
  8. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:42 pm
    The most irritating voice in the world?
  9. Profile photo of Caretta
    Caretta Male 18-29
    540 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:42 pm
    God damn, that guy`s voice is annoying.

    As for the technology, there wasn`t a single real-time demonstration of a controlled character/camera moving around their environment, just a load of clips, some sped-up.
    I saw nothing to prove that it does what they say.
  10. Profile photo of obeydarklord
    obeydarklord Male 18-29
    1360 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:43 pm
    fudge yes, have we finally hit the pinnacle of graphics technology?
    excited to see what the future will bring
  11. Profile photo of Norris
    Norris Male 18-29
    1011 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:43 pm
    even if this wasnt a scam ...it would take a LONG time for this to be the norm.
  12. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:45 pm
    Believe it when I see it.
  13. Profile photo of Snipermonkey
    Snipermonkey Male 18-29
    22 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 2:59 pm
    Link

    I think Notch does a pretty good job of explaining what`s going on here.
  14. Profile photo of Subushie
    Subushie Male 18-29
    1646 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 3:13 pm
    Extraordinary claims takes extraordinary evidence, a simple video isn`t it.
  15. Profile photo of WeePee
    WeePee Male 18-29
    612 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 4:01 pm
    they are missing the point of gaming graphics.
    its not just about how something looks, its about making that object look real as well as interact in a realistic way with the environment as well as the player.

    their grains of dirt may look really pretty, but unless they react to wind, walking, running, ect, and of course all at different velocities and trajectories. all they have is a pretty picture, not a game.
    and if their technology can`t work with a current gaming or physics engine, its their job to make that happen. not expect other companies to do it for them.
  16. Profile photo of cyborg
    cyborg Male 13-17
    2790 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    meh. spend less time trying to make a tree look real and try to make a good quality/original game
  17. Profile photo of danthew
    danthew Male 18-29
    2122 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 4:28 pm
    IMO this probably isn`t as good as they are saying, but this kind of thing has to be the future. Simply increasing polygons isn`t the way. And besides, everything would probably have to be polygons underneath as the processing power required to model the physics for each atom would be insane.
  18. Profile photo of joecorso37
    joecorso37 Male 18-29
    17 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 4:44 pm

  19. Profile photo of Dhharrgoww
    Dhharrgoww Male 18-29
    101 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 5:03 pm
    *Graphics circle jerk*

    Cool. Graphics will be as realistic as they ever really need to be soon enough. Maybe once we`re finally, finally over the gimmick of realism, we can focus on things looking stylistically good and, more importantly, actually being fun to play and original.
  20. Profile photo of Demstar_Aus
    Demstar_Aus Female 18-29
    179 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 5:09 pm
    I don`t think they`re missing the point at all, it`s a step, and that`s something. On a different note, MOST ANNOYING AUSSIE ACCENT EVER!
  21. Profile photo of Thetas
    Thetas Male 18-29
    1540 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 5:15 pm
    I see Notch being brought up on I-A-B. Look, people, Notch very well be right, but not because he knows what he`s talking about, just because he might coincidentally be right. Let`s face it, in terms of voxel programming, Notch is terrible at it. Yeah, his voxel-based game is one of the most popular there is right now, but he still did a horrible job at it. There`s anomalies everywhere and some times- Actually, all the time- the rendering engine locks up and all you get is a blank screen with the sky and the UI. What I`m saying is, he needs to learn proper Voxel programming before he goes attacking companies that have millions of dollars invested in them for their technology.
  22. Profile photo of Tisjokar
    Tisjokar Male 18-29
    985 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 5:41 pm
    This aussie accent sounds so bad
    But Australia coming up the graphics industry isnt much of a surprise, cus we so sexy
  23. Profile photo of Tubby12370
    Tubby12370 Male 18-29
    1440 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 5:49 pm
    Nerd-gasm
  24. Profile photo of Kat29223
    Kat29223 Female 18-29
    73 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 6:13 pm
    sshhhhiiiiii
  25. Profile photo of SoberGuy
    SoberGuy Male 18-29
    347 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 6:28 pm
    HOOOOLLLYYYYY FUUUUUCKKKKK
  26. Profile photo of Skythe
    Skythe Male 18-29
    965 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 6:41 pm
    Damn
  27. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 6:50 pm
    They lost me at "unlimited", especially when they repeated it over and over and over again. Obviously, it can`t be true. It puts them in the ludicrous position of claiming that their graphics engine requires no processing and no memory to render anything - if it required any of either, there would be a limit.

    Although there`s no real information in this video, it`s clear that they`re using voxels. Which are used in science and medicine...for static objects, because voxels are not well suited to animation of any kind. Notice that there is no animation at all in this video.

    Voxels aren`t a radical new technology. They`ve been used in games for years.

    Back as far as 1992
  28. Profile photo of kameo360fan
    kameo360fan Female 13-17
    383 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 6:55 pm
    drat me now!
  29. Profile photo of Hoofer
    Hoofer Male 18-29
    132 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 6:58 pm
    Guys, this is a scam.
    "They made a voxel renderer, probably based on sparse voxel octrees. To quote the video, the island in the video is one km^2. Let’s assume a modest island height of just eight meters, and we end up with 0.008 km^3. At 64 atoms per cubic millimeter (four per millimeter), that is a total of 512 000 000 000 000 000 atoms. If each voxel is made up of one byte of data, that is a total of 512 petabytes of information, or about 170 000 three-terrabyte harddrives full of information. In reality, you will need way more than just one byte of data per voxel to do colors and lighting, and the island is probably way taller than just eight meters, so that estimate is very optimistic.

    So obviously, it’s not made up of that many unique voxels.

  30. Profile photo of Hoofer
    Hoofer Male 18-29
    132 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 6:59 pm
    all roughly the same size.Sparse voxel octrees work great for this, as you don’t need to have unique data in each leaf node,but can reference the same data repeatedly (at fixed intervals) with great speedand memory efficiency. This explains how they can have that much data, but it also shows one of the biggest weaknesses of their engine.

    Another weakness is that voxels are horrible for doing animation, because there is no current fast algorithms for deforming a voxel cloud based on a skeletal mesh, and if you do keyframe animation, you end up with a LOT of data. It’s possible to rotate, scale and translate individual chunks of voxel data to do simple animation, but it’s not going to look as nice as polygon based animated characters do.

    It’s a very pretty and very impressive piece of technology, but they’re carefully avoiding to mention any of the drawbacks, and theyâ
  31. Profile photo of defendors87
    defendors87 Male 18-29
    570 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 7:37 pm
    cacti, not cactuses.
  32. Profile photo of Spider_sol
    Spider_sol Male 18-29
    1452 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 8:40 pm
    Hoofer, you`re forgetting one key feature: Not every atom is unique. The software pulls atom 1ab943e9 for a piece of dirt, but then it repeats that atom over and over again, and then the clump of dirt as a whole gets repeated over and over again. Look at the trees, or paths, in this demo, they are all VERY details, but they are all repeated ad nauseum.
  33. Profile photo of MrYouKnow
    MrYouKnow Male 13-17
    1081 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 8:48 pm
    My RAM would explode.
  34. Profile photo of Klamz
    Klamz Male 18-29
    689 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 9:21 pm
    Now add GeoMod architecture to this and I`ll be impressed. So few games actually allow you to change your surroundings unless it`s preset to be changed like a metal panel falling off a wall.

    I want to be able to dig into the ground and tunnel underneath things to get where I`m going.

    They say it`s open world in some games, open above world maybe, I want to dig so deep a let a balrog out!
  35. Profile photo of Errand_boy
    Errand_boy Male 30-39
    621 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 10:44 pm
    Thats great, now start putting cheat codes back in games. I don`t like playing fair.
  36. Profile photo of TKD_Master
    TKD_Master Male 18-29
    4794 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 10:44 pm
    Companies are going to go batpoo crazy over this. Unless it requires batpoo crazy amounts of hardware specs, then they may wait a few years when such specs are commonplace.
  37. Profile photo of xCYBERDYNEx
    xCYBERDYNEx Male 18-29
    4903 posts
    August 2, 2011 at 11:13 pm
    sweet
  38. Profile photo of Corvid
    Corvid Male 40-49
    21 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 12:55 am
    Is it just me, or does the narrator have the most nasally, self satisfied, annoying voice in the world?
  39. Profile photo of Anger
    Anger Male 18-29
    218 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 1:28 am
    I agree with klamz I wanna be able to knock a pillar over on my enemy or use explosives to make a crater in the ground in which I can later take cover from fire
  40. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 3:26 am
    It`s not new technology, what they are trying to hide (and it`s clearly visible in these demos) it`s good only for very repeatable envirinments as the amount of data needed to render real, diverse landscape is killer. Sure it is future of 3D graphics but we still have to wait for it to be usable in practice.
  41. Profile photo of Finker
    Finker Male 40-49
    505 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 4:07 am
    uunxx, they just haven`t got the resources on the design side so repeating is easy to show lots of a large landscape but they are individual objects being handled as such, if they were unique it would be no different.
  42. Profile photo of Tearon
    Tearon Male 18-29
    147 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 5:13 am
    its impossible
  43. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 8:37 am
    @Tearon: that`s what I`ve wrote about, but is more half-truth than a scam - it`s existing technology that is currently hardly usable.
  44. Profile photo of burbclaver
    burbclaver Male 50-59
    878 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 12:07 pm
    The narrator sounds like a nonce
  45. Profile photo of Naltoc
    Naltoc Male 18-29
    48 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 12:31 pm
    Finker, read the link below from Notch`s blog. It details pretty well exactly why it`s not a lack of creativity, but rather a requirement to get the movie working. The data required to perform a square kilometer of these "atoms" is insane, something no home computer will be able to do for years to come.
  46. Profile photo of comp_wizard
    comp_wizard Male 18-29
    194 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 1:16 pm
    So from what I see, this works great for fixed scenery, and poorly for animation. Perhaps game designers should go to a hybrid technique where backgrounds are rendered this way, and all moving objects are added in with conventional polygon rendering.
  47. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 4:54 pm
    uunxx, they just haven`t got the resources on the design side so repeating is easy to show lots of a large landscape but they are individual objects being handled as such, if they were unique it would be no different.

    Yes it would. The most obvious difference is the amount of data required. You can`t use procedural generation for a whole gameworld, it just doesn`t work at all realistically. So you must have some data and the more unique objects you have in the gameworld the more data you must have for rendering them. Data that you need to store, data that you need to transfer between storage and processing, data that you need to process. It rapidly exceeds the abilities of current technology by multiple orders of magnitude.
  48. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 5:03 pm
    [quote">So from what I see, this works great for fixed scenery, and poorly for animation. Perhaps game designers should go to a hybrid technique where backgrounds are rendered this way, and all moving objects are added in with conventional polygon rendering.[/quote">

    That`s been done in various games since 1992.

    Here`s a link showing some of them

    This isn`t a new idea and it isn`t unlimited no matter how many times they say it is. The hybrid approach also has problems, which is why it isn`t used more often despite the fact that it`s been around for 20 years.

    If this bunch have some secret new techniques that nobody else has managed to think of that solves problems that appear to be impossible with current technology, they`ll need to produce some evidence of it to convince anyone other than co
  49. Profile photo of phoneybone
    phoneybone Male 18-29
    1744 posts
    August 3, 2011 at 7:38 pm
    i could see this being an issue in a game environment when the game engine designer have to figure out collision. It`s easy when you just compare polygons, but compare millions of atoms to millions of other atoms. This won`t be easy to integrate into games, but it eventually will be done, and I for one can`t wait cuz it`ll be awesome.
  50. Profile photo of mcboozerilla
    mcboozerilla Male 30-39
    646 posts
    August 4, 2011 at 7:51 am
    The narrator has an incredibly annoying voice.
  51. Profile photo of fgreatwest
    fgreatwest Male 30-39
    102 posts
    August 7, 2011 at 5:26 pm
    /jaw dropped

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