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Top 10 Creationist Arguments

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It”s incredible that these are still the arguments I constantly hear. Well, all of them but the last one.

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Category: Science
Date: 06/11/11 09:00 AM

195 Responses to Top 10 Creationist Arguments

  1. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 8:39 am
    Link: Top 10 Creationist Arguments - It`s incredible that these are still the arguments I constantly hear. Well, all of them but the last one.
  2. Profile photo of djlazar
    djlazar Male 30-39
    185 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:11 am
    I wouldn`t give other dating methods much weight either. Who is to say that radioactive elements decay at the same rate over billions of years, and who is to say that the same conditions on earth that exist today are the same conditions that existed millions of years ago. I`m just saying...
  3. Profile photo of NitroJunkie
    NitroJunkie Male 70 & Over
    758 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:14 am
    Cobra, if you could just sign here, on this line, you can take receipt of this sh*t-storm that`s about to begin...
  4. Profile photo of terracottus
    terracottus Male 30-39
    280 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:19 am
    amusing flamewar in 3...
  5. Profile photo of MikeyNiv
    MikeyNiv Male 18-29
    697 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:21 am
    Great video, I learned a few things. Could have done without the list at #6 though, but I suppose it proved a point.
  6. Profile photo of IrishJesus
    IrishJesus Male 18-29
    483 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:23 am
    NB4flamewar

    Also, haha
  7. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:27 am
    Creationists like to argue that because the world is so complex it necessitates a creator. But they don`t apply this same reasoning to this incredibly complex, powerful, and intelligent entity. He just is they say. Which is a drating cop- out.
  8. Profile photo of KidGixxer
    KidGixxer Male 30-39
    182 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:28 am
    This website has gone downhill.
    It seems like the only thing being posted nowadays is either, Anti atheist, anti religion or political views.

    I dont know about the rest of you but i use to come here to get away from religion/politics.
  9. Profile photo of vmeyer
    vmeyer Male 18-29
    141 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:29 am
    good and simple, helps when arguments like these appear.

    it sure did loose a lot of credit just by quickly listing some of the top 10 dumb-ass evolutionist arguments against religion.

    the list itself already proves the point.
    please don`t get all defensive and say "invisible man" and "talking snake".
  10. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3282 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:30 am
    Only 6 of these "arguments" really address Evolution vs. Creationism. The other four are more about the belief in God.

    And, as we`ve learned in a previous video here, Evolution doesn`t talk about how life started, just what happened to it since it started. You start with other scientific evidence pointing to single cell fossils billions of years old, and then look at evolution, and find that it must be how life developed on Earth.

    Best proof that Evolution, regardless of how life started, is how life changes, is dog breeding. While it`s not "natural selection," anyone can see how a specific breed of dog has changed over time, based on the needs of the humans who, in many cases, created them.
  11. Profile photo of nny156
    nny156 Male 18-29
    182 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:31 am
    so much ownage in one little video
  12. Profile photo of alliknow
    alliknow Female 18-29
    155 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:33 am
    I don`t believe in god, but this video has the same overbearing "I`m right, you`re wrong" attitude that those crazy christians have. Not the right way to go about things in my opinion, you got your beliefs and I`ve got mine.
  13. Profile photo of Klamz
    Klamz Male 18-29
    689 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:34 am
    I don`t know if radioactive dating methods are accurate but I take it on faith that it is. I choose to believe in it. Can you prove me wrong? heh
  14. Profile photo of memoryburner
    memoryburner Male 13-17
    132 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:35 am
    Sorry, I`m an athiest, but that doesn`t mean I go around being a dick trying to bash other peoples beliefs.
  15. Profile photo of PosisDas
    PosisDas Male 30-39
    52 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:36 am
    @djlazar
    "Who is to say that radioactive elements decay at the same rate over billions of years"

    The answer is scientists that have spent their lifetimes testing radioactivity. They have found there are elements whose decay rate is unstable over time. They don`t use those elements for radiometric dating. Only those elements that have a GREAT degree of confidence that their decay rate is stable over time are used radiometrically.
    Nuclear physicists know a great deal about radioactivity. If you don`t believe the people who spend their lives researching the subject, research the subject yourself so you can have the knowledge to be able to test your "all elements decay rates are unstable" theory and refute 100 years of nuclear physics.
  16. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6965 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:40 am
    djlazar

    <i>I`m just saying...</i>

    But what are you just saying?
  17. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:40 am
    As an atheist I could care less if the believers keep on believing. As history has taught us they will keep killing each other over an invisible guy which means more air and less pollution for the rest of us.
  18. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:45 am
    Well-executed as this video is, it won`t help much in arguments with religious people since they just simply say: "You just have to believe, and you will not understand if you don`t."
  19. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:49 am
    Oh and for those of you who don`t like religious debates, just click "next" (or "previous", if you are like me). That won`t burn more than 5 calorie, will it?
  20. Profile photo of Tubby12370
    Tubby12370 Male 18-29
    1440 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:52 am
    As long as there is evidence to back up either theory whether it being evolution, or creationism Im fine with it, (creationism has no evidence)
  21. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4809 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:55 am

    So let me get this straight... There is no God?

    Riiight
  22. Profile photo of hatface
    hatface Male 18-29
    605 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:59 am
    "The Thinking Atheist: We`re better than you, no matter what."
  23. Profile photo of SapphireHart
    SapphireHart Female 18-29
    412 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:10 am
    Is this argument meant to be for evolution and against creationism?

    As a zoologist I believe in evolution, and I am also a christian. I find it hard to see why people think the two things clash, and for this creationism is kind of silly.

    However the video fails to back up it`s reasons properly, one cannot compare evolution to migration (then again it`s funny if people don`t understand why monkeys are still here, they deserve to be mocked).
  24. Profile photo of SapphireHart
    SapphireHart Female 18-29
    412 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:15 am
    "Well-executed as this video is, it won`t help much in arguments with religious people since they just simply say: "You just have to believe, and you will not understand if you don`t.""

    It`s not very well executed in that it doesn`t really back anything up. A lot of the comparisons are not justifiable comparisons. It would be better for the "Why are there still monkeys" question to show an evolutionary tree and explain how extant species can coexist. A better comparison would be "If birds exist and they come from reptiles, then why is it so hard to understand humans and monkeys?"

    On another note I have never heard this monkey/human issue before, and (like I said below) those that do not get it are just asking to be mocked!
  25. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:15 am
    kidgixxer, i guess you havent gotten to the dancing tigger video, the shaq video, or the kesha video yet. I think that if you look around you will find more links not related to religion or politics than are.

    hatface, just like vegans.


  26. Profile photo of Hiromi
    Hiromi Female 18-29
    1149 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:23 am
    Damn it feels good to be an atheist..
  27. Profile photo of hatface
    hatface Male 18-29
    605 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:24 am
    @cobra. Or cats. Those things never stop judging you.
  28. Profile photo of kairobert
    kairobert Male 18-29
    1623 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:25 am
    "Well-executed as this video is, it won`t help much in arguments with religious people since they just simply say: "You just have to believe, and you will not understand if you don`t.""

    Do they not consider that many, if not most, atheists were theists as children and then wavered?
  29. Profile photo of nayrbarr
    nayrbarr Male 18-29
    366 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:35 am
    @a1butcher Yep, that`s pretty much the case. What of it?
  30. Profile photo of desert_ninja
    desert_ninja Male 30-39
    7 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:41 am
    I think proving evolution in a labratory means someone has to make a self-replicating molecule, not take something living and show how it has changed as a species over time.
  31. Profile photo of KeePay
    KeePay Male 18-29
    494 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:49 am
    There are some very good rebuttals in here, but topics like "America is a Christian nation" and "Hitler was an atheist" completely sidetrack from the list. Stick with the arguments regarding Creationism, not religion in general. Also, don`t say all Christians are creationists, the generalization really bothers me.
  32. Profile photo of apermal
    apermal Male 18-29
    322 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:49 am
    This argued some points, but mocked the others. Fail.
  33. Profile photo of crudson
    crudson Male 18-29
    589 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:59 am
    Too many atheist are just anti-Christians. And yes atheism IS a religion. People that believe vehemently have the same spike in their brainwaves no matter what they believe. It gets you high. People watching porn have the same spike only down instead of up.
  34. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:09 am
    crudson, please give a definition of the word "religion", then apply it to atheism and see if it fits.
  35. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:12 am
    As much as I agree with these points, I hate their presentation. They`re not changing anyone`s mind--theists will just get angry about it, and atheists will just nod and say "yep, that`s what I thought."

    ...it`s just as bad as bible-bashing.
  36. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:14 am
    In other news: you don`t have to back anything up if you are arguing with people who never accept anything other than their beliefs in the first place. Hate the method all you want, but ridiculing, mocking and giving absurd examples is how you win real-life arguments (not the academic ones). This video was never intended to provide hard, cold scientific facts, but rather to mock the absurdity of the creationists, and it had done a good job at that too.
  37. Profile photo of Arxas
    Arxas Female 18-29
    15 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:18 am
    Okay, this video is crap. And here is why. But before I rant, let me give some context. I am agnostic. I`m definitely not religious and I don`t think there is a man or force helping me or who made me. So then why agnostic and not aithiest? Because I hate identifying with a group of smug non-nice individuals who try to mock religious people with halfassed videos with unflushed counter arguments.

    Now, I`ve seen religion do some good thing on a micro scale and I LOVE Joel Osteen. I don`t have to be religious to appreciate that MOST religious people are pretty decent. I can even go so far as to like them and be fine with whatever they believe. OMG, tolerance? Understanding? Not being a dick at the idea of them praying? Oh yah - call me crazy.

    Aithiest like this give the whole group a bad name. Sorry to say.
  38. Profile photo of Deviros
    Deviros Male 18-29
    535 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:19 am
    A) listing a bunch of organizations the are against God is pointless. One can also list mainstream organizations that are for God.

    B) the argument that people evolved from monkeys is wrong - they cannot even get their own facts right - the common conception is that humans and monkeys have a common ancestor and that both evolved into their separate families, so they managed to fail hard on that one.

    C) "Hitler was an Atheist" is outright moronic and shouldn`t even be acknowledged. Waste of a "point"

    D) This whole thing is pretty much filled with an air of superiority and hatred. I`m not sure I understand the point of arguing this sort of thing - if one wants to be an Atheist, fine, but the minute you start trying to convert others with an evangelical attitude, and start producing what amounts to apologetics, it becomes a religion, whether you want to call it that or not.
  39. Profile photo of Aragnarok
    Aragnarok Male 30-39
    51 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:21 am
    There is so much `dumb` from both sides of this video that there isn`t even enough room to comment on it all thoroughly and accurately here.
  40. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:22 am
    They`re not changing anyone`s mind--theists will just get angry about it
    I believe that is the point, although it`s also a source of entertainment for everyone else.

    And such videos do work on some, that alone is enough to justify them. Particularly those that are younger.

    As for the older, they just need to be ridiculed into submission.
  41. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:24 am
    desert_ninja, you are talking about the creation of life. evolution has nothing to do with the beginning of life, just how it got from its beginning to now.
  42. Profile photo of Deviros
    Deviros Male 18-29
    535 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:27 am
    LazyMe484 said "...As for the older, they just need to be ridiculed into submission.As for the older, they just need to be ridiculed into submission."

    And that`s a wonderful attitude to have. yes. keep ridiculing people into submission. Brilliant. Real piece of class there, aren`t you?
  43. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:31 am
    deviros, the reason they put the monkey and hitler things in there is because there are people who believe them. I have personally heard people try to say that evolution says that we come from monkeys, which is a ridiculous statement. one should not argue against something they no nothing about.
  44. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:32 am
    @Deviros
    (A) So is listing names God knows they`re real of people who are believing in God.
    (B) It appeals to the common mass better than 2 pages full of size 10, Times News Roman words, so who care if it is wrong.
    (C) Blame the morons who bring that "point" out.
    (D) This video never aims to convert Christianity to atheism. Nope. Just returning the favor of God-knows-how-many videos making fun of atheists on Youtube. Troll? Yes. Fun? Yes. Informative, modest and unbiased? Hell no.

    @Arxas: you are an atheist and you shouldn`t deny it. Christians do not renounce their Christianity despite of WBC, and you neither.
  45. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:32 am
    deviros, i think you double pasted my friend. but i actually agree with you on that point. ridiculing somebody stops backing them into submission in middle school, after that it just makes them fire back.
  46. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:37 am
    arxas, mcmxciii makes a good point. there are assh*les on both sides. this shouldn`t make you deny what you are. I am personally an agnostic because I have no idea whether or not there is a god or power out there greater than us. but, i do have faith in science, because it admits when its wrong and continues to develop on successes as well as failures. its human.
  47. Profile photo of WickedSteak
    WickedSteak Male 18-29
    319 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:39 am
    Who gives a crap? Arguing for or against religion really isn`t going to get you anywhere. It`s like arguing with a robot. Whenever I see an argument between the two I always see the same things re-hashed over and over again, like the points given and argued against in this video. All of you people who argue one way or the other are just wasting your time. It`s a never ending battle for supposed intellectual superiority between the two parties, but no one really wins because it just causes more conflict. You can believe in god or not, but either way you aren`t going to argue your way into changing someone`s mind because when you do that, you`re basically saying, "you`re stupid, and everything you believe in is stupid." A constant back and forth for absolutely nothing but self satisfaction. People need to learn to just believe in what they want and let others do the same.
  48. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:39 am
    keep ridiculing people into submission. Brilliant.
    This is the internet, not afternoon tea with your grandma.

    let`s see what you`ve come up with...

    A - that`s not what the video says, watch it again.
    B - that`s a generalization, "monkey" can apply to primates in general.
    C - if creationists keep bringing it up, it`s a point
    D - ... um, what? I`m not detecting any hatred. Ridicule != hatred.
  49. Profile photo of Buck176
    Buck176 Male 30-39
    379 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:53 am
    Why is it atheists take the stance that you can`t believe in god and evolution? That statement about 97% of scientists in the academy of sciences not believing in god is crap. Most scientists believe in god. They reject inteligent design
  50. Profile photo of Buck176
    Buck176 Male 30-39
    379 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:54 am
    stupid computer didn`t let me correct spelling and grammar in that last sentence.
  51. Profile photo of Deviros
    Deviros Male 18-29
    535 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:56 am
    @cobra: agreed, and thanks.

    @MCMXCIII @LazyMe484
    *sigh* retort again. I was selecting various points in the video. Not the whole thing.

    A) One side always says the other has proponents that are on their side. That was my point.

    B)@LazyMe: no, it can`t Not in something like this. @MCMXCIII That is a terrible attitude about facts - especially when the whole point of the video is *gasp* FACTS!!!!

    C)@LazyMe: no, it`s not - it`s a laughable excuse for empirical evidence. @MCMXCIII That was kind of my... Ugh. point.

    D)both of you: The video shows an intolerance of people who don`t agree with them.

    @LazyMe: Just because it`s the internet doesn`t mean you HAVE to lose all sensibility, tact, and courtesy, but if you do, it _does_ still mean you have no class, just anonymously instead of publicly.
  52. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:59 am
    Evolution simply means change, can things change over time, yes, very small changes. Like hair density for example. However, changing from one species to another, which is how most people use the word, is not viewable, since it has not happened.

    The whole idea of evolution started from birds that can change their beaks within a few seasons to adapt to different food, based on what is available. What they like to leave out, is that no matter how the beak changes, it`s still the exact same species of bird. I have no problem with the term or word evolution, I just wish people would use it properly.

    I`m sure I could chew the rest down is the same fashion, but this is the one subject that tops my pet peeve list. People who don`t understand that there is Micro-evolution, and Marco-evolution and that one does not prove the other because they happen to have similar names.

    It was a well done video, though number 10 is kinda a cheap shot, I`ve never heard anyone m
  53. Profile photo of human_exile
    human_exile Male 13-17
    875 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:03 pm
    yeah, we get it, you don`t believe in God.

    i believe God created Earth and evolution took hold with some help
  54. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:04 pm
    @Buck176 I agree, that 97% scientists thing is a load of rubbish. So much so in fact that a group of so called scientists wrote a list of who qualify to be one, and their sole basis was their thoughts on evolution. If you agreed you made the list, if not, you were considered non-credible. Which is utter nonsense, since both sides are just as biased as the other.
  55. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:04 pm
    Deviros, you are not living in a world where everyone is nice, smart and open to facts and viewpoints different from theirs. No, far from that; you are living in a world where constant conflicts, discrimination and intolerance are the norms. You can hate all you want, but ridiculing is one very effective method to convince the weaker minds to agree with you.
  56. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:12 pm
    @Buck, I`d like to see your statistics about "most scientists do believe in God(s)". Remember, the number has to be larger than 50% to qualify as "most".

    @EgalM: modern civilizations had existed for just about 5,000 years, and modern science have existed for a mere 300 hundred years. If Earth`s history would last a day, that duration wouldn`t last even a second. You can`t not observe macro evolution simply because you are too temporary, too ephemeral to witness the grandeur of life. But that doesn`t mean macro evolution is false: if you can`t see an atom, does that mean atoms do not exist? Certainly not, since you can prove it using other methods than utilizing your 5 senses.
  57. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:19 pm
    "People that believe vehemently have the same spike in their brainwaves no matter what they believe. It gets you high. People watching porn have the same spike only down instead of up."

    I`d like to hear more about this "spike." This was the most interesting part of this video/post.
  58. Profile photo of Deviros
    Deviros Male 18-29
    535 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:20 pm
    @MCMXCIII I`ve been very careful to _not_ exhibit hatred in my responses.

    However, from what you`ve just said, "You can hate all you want, but ridiculing is one very effective method to convince the weaker minds to agree with you." it`s evident that you don`t believe in the need for any sort of truth, but that the important thing is that everyone agree with what you believe is true, and that everyone who doesn`t agree with you only disagrees because their mind is weaker.

    And that in order to fix this, you should ridicule their beliefs because that will, i`m assuming, shame them into agreeing with you.

    While this policy might work, it`s an absolutely horrible attitude to have towards others, and to arguments, internet or not.
  59. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:28 pm
    Why do religious believers try to argue using science, as if the two are related? This ploy will not work on me - your science and logic is WEAK! An athiest `belief` is based upon logic and information, and is generally open to change. A religious belief is based on fear and manipulation from an early age and is incapable of change.
  60. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:30 pm
    If I had one wish, I would wish to violently and painfully rid the world of all religious people by my hand alone. It would be an absolute joy...
  61. Profile photo of Deviros
    Deviros Male 18-29
    535 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    @splurbyburbl Hooray for tolerance!
  62. Profile photo of Frankii
    Frankii Female 18-29
    437 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:37 pm
    All I`m going to say is that you can believe in God without being a Creationist. Most of us agree with evolution, Big Bang, all that jazz (I`m not going to go into more science, I`m an arts student, it won`t end well) I don`t pretend to know a lot and maybe I do just believe in God cause I`m scared of just dying at the end but it helps me through and not all the messages in the Bible are bad, the OT was a bit dodgy but Jesus was alright.
  63. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 12:56 pm
    @Frankil - that`s a refreshing admission of your reasons for believing in God. Maybe when you give it some more thought you may come to question which specific God you believe to be the correct one. Odin? Zeus? Jesus? Or maybe you will join the rest of us in bewildered Agnosticism! I know many scientists who would not argue against a God, as we still cannot prove how the universe (or life for that matter) came to exist. What we can surmise is that the current religions have served the desires of men more than that of any God!
  64. Profile photo of Sathon
    Sathon Male 18-29
    248 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:09 pm
    8 minutes of yet more proof that atheists are non-nice individuals. Seriously, why can`t you all just be happy knowing you`re right and move on with your pathetic lives?
  65. Profile photo of vivian_vo
    vivian_vo Female 13-17
    1 post
    June 11, 2011 at 1:17 pm
    just think who made the universe? who made the world?if you say that little ball of fire floating in space,or the "big bang,why? who created the "bang" if it was real? how did it get there? there was nothing.
    why would people even make up the bible?who would make something up like that? God is real!
    if thta bang was floating in space then who made space? God made everything it says in the bible God wrote that so we could see it he loves each and every one of you even if you do not love him. he even loves thoughs scientists that don`t beleive in him.how amazimg is that!he made this (the world) for each and EVERY one of us
  66. Profile photo of GRadde
    GRadde Male 18-29
    2556 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:25 pm
    >Frankii
    I`m in the same boat as you, Frankii. Even as I`m studying to be an engineer, I have, basically, the same "arguments" as yourself. ^^

    >Beardofzeus
    I like to think on Pascal`s Wager when it comes to faith, and from then on thinking that choosing one god and adding a good dose of common sense is what I think is the best path for me. I don`t impose that on anyone, as it`s a very personal belief, but I felt almost compelled to comment.
  67. Profile photo of Animecha
    Animecha Male 18-29
    147 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:33 pm
    @Sathon - Because atheists are a minority in a country where religious doctrine affects education and law making to the point where people actually try to teach something as moronic as the Earth being 10,000 years old as true.
  68. Profile photo of bongsmoka420
    bongsmoka420 Male 18-29
    290 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:35 pm
    the athiests that created this are dumber than the religious nuts they`re trying to discredit. and besides, taking the stories in the bible too seriously is a mistake. to fully understand is to realise that the stories differ from religion to religion, not matter how many elements of magic or fantasy, in order to appeal to the people of the time in a way they would understand. the goal in that is to teach lessons. these lessons however do not differ from religion to religion. at the root of these lessons you`ll always find the general idea of being good to one another.

    also, we didn`t evolve from monkeys. we and the primates evolved from whales simultaneously. this was found by studying the finger bones inside the fins of whales which used to be land animals that sort of resembles crocodiles and alligators but were mammals instead of reptiles.
  69. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    I wonder how it`s possible that people doubt that the Universe could came out of "nothing" but almighty, infinitely complex mind out of "nothing" is no problem for them. So I ask the question: who the hell created God??
  70. Profile photo of bongsmoka420
    bongsmoka420 Male 18-29
    290 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    in addition, to explain to those who are asking "who created the big bang?": the big bang happened because all the matter in the universe was compressed together with resulted in crazy pressure and a release of energy from it. and bang, the universe is there. this will happen again. black holes, as we know, are gravitational fields that even take in light, resulting in their black appearance. as they take in more matter, they become stronger. eventually they will take in everything in the universe and each other into yet another single mass of all the matter in the universe. here`s where god comes in. where did this matter come from? we know matter is energy compressed into a slow vibration. and then we might ask where the energy came from? well, god. to me at least, energy is god. and that is how even the ignorant athiest might understand that god created everything and is everything and is inside everything. god is energy. (continued on next comment)
  71. Profile photo of krisley
    krisley Male 18-29
    525 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    @vivian why would people even make up the koran? Why would people even make up the bhagavad gita, the analects, or the upanishads? Your argument makes very little sense. Just because we don`t yet know what was before the big bang, it doesn`t automatically mean god played a role in anything. It was once popular conception that God was the reason people got sick, back when we didn`t know about bacteria and viruses.

    Anyway, as for the video.... Nuh uhhh! Checkmate atheists!
  72. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:47 pm
    I can no longer participate in this discussion as I feel I am discussing with children. Come back to me in ten years, then we`ll talk. @Vivian `why would people even make up the bible?who would make something up like that?` I can`t even begin to answer that question as the number of examples of people who have used the `fear of hell` to benefit over their fellow man is so large that it is proof enough that the words in the many `books of God` are man-made.
  73. Profile photo of bongsmoka420
    bongsmoka420 Male 18-29
    290 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:48 pm
    no your arguments of science and evolution and the age of the earth are not wrong. people way back in the day just didn`t know better. however, you are wrong to think that god and science do not tie in to one another. so are people of differing religions. I believe all religions and the scriptures and profits were sent from the same source, the product was just different in order to teach that golden lesson of "be good to each other" to different people with ways specific to what would appeal to them.
  74. Profile photo of bongsmoka420
    bongsmoka420 Male 18-29
    290 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:51 pm
    I challange any athiest to prove my statements as not making sense.
  75. Profile photo of raleighpop
    raleighpop Female 18-29
    3 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    @vivian_vo

    Just as an addendum to what my fellows have said below, consider the use of rhetoric and fiction used in everyday life to further one`s own political, moral, or other personal agenda. The extent of abusing the written word to serve one`s own interests does not end at religious texts. Think about it, open your blinded eyes, and you will realise that the entire world is filled with shameful propaganda. Juss sayin`.
  76. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 1:57 pm
    vivian_vo, i cant answer any of those with certainty except one: why would somebody make religion? that has a simple answer, power. the catholic church has been the best example of that for the last thousand years.
  77. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:01 pm
    @bongsmoka420: every "holy" book I know claims it`s one and only valid and people who don`t follow it have no chance for salvation. If God had planned to teach different people in different ways all his books would, in first place, teach about harmony between different religions. It`s definitely not like that, so you are wrong.
  78. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:07 pm
    bongsmoka420, i do like your views of energy being your god. that is a great way to look at it; we were created from energy, we live off of energy, and when we die we go back to energy. its actually kind of beautiful when you think about it.

    this however no longer works if you give this energy consciousness.
  79. Profile photo of supersai20
    supersai20 Male 13-17
    105 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:19 pm
    pooSTORM
  80. Profile photo of aquaman1227
    aquaman1227 Male 18-29
    683 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:21 pm
    @bongsmoka420

    I`m actually a creationist and i`m going to stop you there. A lot of religion native to the Americas was not based on being good to others, but strictly pleasing the God(s) through sacrifice. This led to lots of inter-group warfare.
  81. Profile photo of Dieperson
    Dieperson Male 18-29
    19 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:35 pm
    @uunxx

    I guess you`ve never heard of Hinduism
  82. Profile photo of DShephard
    DShephard Male 18-29
    1595 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:43 pm
    If you read the Hebrew Old Testament with your own translation, you get a terribly different idea of it than anyone else doing the same thing.

    Besides, who WANTS to not go to heaven and just be cast into nothingness?
    Even if religion is false and made up in a way to make people feel better after someone they love dies, I`m fine with that.
    I`m a Methodist and I plan on keeping it like that, I have my own ideas about God, and I am also a scientific mind, but when you need help from a higher power, then remember you`re atheist and consequently screwed, well, you may have made the wrong life choice.
  83. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32829 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:44 pm
    zzzzzzzz
  84. Profile photo of hairyshyt
    hairyshyt Male 30-39
    217 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    Why does the phrase "go to hell or burn in hell", when aimed at atheists upset them when they allegedly have no concept of an intellegent creator or heaven and hell, it`s a paradox.
  85. Profile photo of Damhnaic
    Damhnaic Male 30-39
    5 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 2:53 pm
    If one could prove God exists it would make God`s existence moot. Both sides rely on faith in something that cannot be proven It`s a Cat, not a Checkmate.

    The claim that America was founded on Christian Principals is not even a Creationist argument so an Atheist choosing to answer to this is just more propaganda to make Creationists look like fools; making both sides look like fools because the Atheists intentionally included invalid arguments, which is not only a stupid move, but a low blow.

    Half of these arguments are demonstrably false and misleading. Even the aforementioned argument posed and answered by the two sides, for instance. The claim the Founding Fathers being mostly Christian is easily verifiable if you look at any of the thousands of letters they wrote back and forth that are held in museums and private collections.

    You`re better off doing your own research into the subject by reading actual books than to listen to this drivel and decide.
  86. Profile photo of Animecha
    Animecha Male 18-29
    147 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 3:26 pm
    Dhamnaic, you make a strawman argument when you claim atheists need evidence to reject the assertion something outlandish exists without evidence to support it. This misconception is probably my least favorite among the many people have when it comes the atheists.

    And Atheists don`t need to do anything to make creationists look like fools. Anyone who rejects science and mountains of evidence does that on their own. Though i do agree that they should have stayed on the subject.
  87. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 3:32 pm
    This is just stuff that is repeated
  88. Profile photo of Caretta
    Caretta Male 18-29
    540 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 3:37 pm
    "Why does the phrase "go to hell or burn in hell", when aimed at atheists upset them when they allegedly have no concept of an intellegent creator or heaven and hell, it`s a paradox."

    For the same reason that if I call you a poohead, you`d be insulted. Even though your head probably isn`t made of poo.
  89. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 3:38 pm
    Creationists want to shut down educational and scientific institutions as we know them and turn the universities into fantasy- hallelujah buildings where everyone is forces to read the bible over and over again.

    People who want to turn our country into a theocracy, should be extradidet to Iran and forced to wear a burka for ten years, pray five times every day and stay away from alcohol and sex.
  90. Profile photo of zombunny
    zombunny Female 18-29
    2525 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 4:44 pm
    I just want to say, as an atheist, we`re not all that smug. Personally I have a lot of respect for religious people, so long as they don`t use their beliefs to harm others. I may not agree with their views, but I won`t be an arrogant douche about it unless they give me a reason to.
  91. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 4:56 pm
    Why does the phrase "go to hell or burn in hell", when aimed at atheists upset them when they allegedly have no concept of an intellegent creator or heaven and hell, it`s a paradox.

    No it isn`t, because it`s an expression of utmost contempt and hope that you suffer as much as possible.

    If, for example, someone was to say that your mother is a cheap whore who blows donkeys for crack and they hoped that you would be abducted by aliens and tortured for years before being raped to death, would you be upset? If so, why?
  92. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:00 pm
    Best proof that Evolution, regardless of how life started, is how life changes, is dog breeding. While it`s not "natural selection," anyone can see how a specific breed of dog has changed over time, based on the needs of the humans who, in many cases, created them.

    Exactly. It is evolution. It`s just evolution by human selection instead of evolution by natural selection. It`s the same process. It`s not just dogs, of course (horses and cows in particular are more important), but you`re right that it`s the best proof in that it`s the clearest to most people.

    Not that it matters, because you can`t counter faith with reason. Faith requires the rejection of reason, so reason is useless for countering faith.
  93. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:02 pm
    Who is to say that radioactive elements decay at the same rate over billions of years

    People who understand how radioactive decay works.

    and who is to say that the same conditions on earth that exist today are the same conditions that existed millions of years ago.

    Since nobody is saying that and it`s irrelevant to dating methods, what is your point?
  94. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:06 pm
    I think proving evolution in a labratory means someone has to make a self-replicating molecule, not take something living and show how it has changed as a species over time.

    You think wrong. You are arguing that showing evolution happening doesn`t prove that evolution exists. You don`t know you`re doing that because you don`t know what evolution is, but that is what you`re doing.

    I think that in the first part of your paragraph you`re intending to refer to abiogenesis, which has absolutely nothing at all to do with evolution.
  95. Profile photo of Kittycat101
    Kittycat101 Female 13-17
    150 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:09 pm
    Evolution: Cats have the exact same proteins we do for eye color. In fact, most species are connected genetically in some way. Not only that, but, when meteroties hit earth scientists will study whats on them, and several proteins on earth have been found on meteroties. Pointing to the conclusion that meteroties must have collided with earth and dropped off said proteins at some point in the history of earth. Its just plain close minded and drating stupid with all the edvidence out there to try and claim stuff like "the earth is only 1,000 years old, or evolution isnt real" I dont understand why its ok for religious people to bash scientific arguments when the only proof they have for their "god" is a dusty book thats been revised over 1,000 times and not even written by their god. Religious People say wheres your evidence and scientists present it, atheists ask wheres your evidence and they scream "your going to hell!"
  96. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:13 pm
    A) listing a bunch of organizations the are against God is pointless.

    i) That wasn`t what the list was.
    ii) The list is not pointless in the context it was used in - examples that contradict a false argument.

    B) the argument that people evolved from monkeys is wrong - they cannot even get their own facts right

    The fact that the argument is wrong was their point. They weren`t saying it was a fact. They were arguing against people who, like you, falsely claim it is being put forward as a fact.

    I could continue, but you`re so utterly wrong in every respect that it would be pointless.
  97. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:16 pm
    I am personally an agnostic because I have no idea whether or not there is a god or power out there greater than us.

    I`m an agnostic and an atheist. They`re different things, not different positions on the same subject.

    but, i do have faith in science, because it admits when its wrong and continues to develop on successes as well as failures.

    Which is why you don`t need faith in science. Faith is for things you don`t know and can`t rely on. Science is neither. Faith is irrelevant to science.
  98. Profile photo of xmbo
    xmbo Male 18-29
    47 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:19 pm
    lol, chalk one up for atheist! Got idiots talking, and racking up veiws!!
  99. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:21 pm
    Why is it atheists take the stance that you can`t believe in god and evolution?

    You don`t need to believe in evolution - it`s a proven fact. Do you believe in gravity? Do you believe in light? Do you believe in trees? Do you even consider the concept of belief in that sort of context?

    I`m an atheist. I think it`s possible for a person to acknowledge the existence of evolution and also believe in a god or gods. So I disprove your statement.

    That statement about 97% of scientists in the academy of sciences not believing in god is crap.

    And your evidence for that statement is?

    Most scientists believe in god.

    Same question as above.
  100. Profile photo of sounder
    sounder Male 40-49
    59 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:27 pm
    I was always under the impression that while there are indeed 4 laws of thermodynamics...
    there is actually no law called the fourth law
    there is...
    the zeroth law
    the first law
    the second law
    and
    the third law...
    I`m just sayin`
  101. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:27 pm
    I`m sure I could chew the rest down is the same fashion, but this is the one subject that tops my pet peeve list. People who don`t understand that there is Micro-evolution, and Marco-evolution and that one does not prove the other because they happen to have similar names.

    Whereas my pet peeve is when people take a distinction made up by creationists and pretend it`s part of the theory of evolution.

    By the way, you might find it interesting to look up this word: speciation.
  102. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:33 pm
    GRadde, are you serious about Pascal`s wager? Even though it`s been so thoroughly rebutted so many times, you think it`s correct? It` so thoroughly wrong that it can be used to "prove" that only nontheists go to the Christian heaven.
  103. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:42 pm
    Not only that, but, when meteroties hit earth scientists will study whats on them, and several proteins on earth have been found on meteroties. Pointing to the conclusion that meteroties must have collided with earth and dropped off said proteins at some point in the history of earth.

    That`s one conclusion (panspermia, if I recall correctly), but it`s not the only valid conclusion from that evidence. For example, it might be that the amino acids (not proteins) form under certain conditions that can exist in different places.
  104. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:52 pm
    "People who don`t understand that there is Micro-evolution, and Marco-evolution and that one does not prove the other because they happen to have similar names."

    Uh, hate to tell you this, but they ARE the same thing! Unless you wish to believe there is some invisible force that tells life-forms to stop evolving once they reach a certain point... lol

    Micro vs. Macro evolution is a label - Perhaps you should research this topic a bit more from a NON biased source?
  105. Profile photo of Justin9235
    Justin9235 Male 18-29
    1582 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:53 pm
    OWNED
  106. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 5:53 pm
    Just in case there are any Christians here who want but don`t have a theologically sound way of combining their faith with acknowledging the existence of evolution, here`s one:

    Your god created evolution. Why? Well, why not? Immortal deity, right? So what`s a few billion years here and there to them? Besides, you must also believe that they created changing habitats on a changing planet in a changing universe, so wouldn`t they create a process by which living things could change?

    Does this cause a problem with the "humans were created in your god`s own image" idea? Firstly, that idea isn`t theologically sound because it denies your god`s omnipotence, which is heresy. Secondly, it doesn`t cause a problem with that idea anyway. Just believe that your god created evolution knowing from the start that humans would evolve in the future.
  107. Profile photo of AvaAdore83
    AvaAdore83 Female 18-29
    11 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 6:22 pm
    OWNED. I cant believe we still have to debate this with people. God isn`t real. Move on.
  108. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 6:39 pm
    Lolol. `Just sayin`," at the end. xD
  109. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 6:50 pm
    angillion, atheism is the denial of a god or natural force running things, whereas agnosticism is an unknowing of whether or not there is a god or natural force. so technically everyone should be considered an agnostic because nobody really knows the truth.

    when i said "faith" i was saying it in terms of religion. they have "faith" in their beliefs and i have "faith" in science.
  110. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 6:54 pm
    angillion, atheism is the denial of a god or natural force running things, whereas agnosticism is an unknowing of whether or not there is a god or natural force. so technically everyone should be considered an agnostic because nobody really knows the truth.

    Neither of those definitions are right, so your conclusion from them is wrong.

    Atheism is a lack of belief in gods.

    Agnosticism is a philosophical approach *in all things, not just religion*, that you shouldn`t claim something to be objectively true unless you can prove it.

    The definition of agnosticism as defined by the person who started it:

    That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.
  111. Profile photo of Lawviz
    Lawviz Male 18-29
    429 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 7:20 pm
    I was sure they`d bring up that banana explanation..
  112. Profile photo of Sathon
    Sathon Male 18-29
    248 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 7:22 pm
    @cobrakiller/Angilion

    The definition of atheist has changed. Nowadays it`s more along the lines of someone who constantly brings up the topic of God to bring up arguments and intentionally be a dick to anyone who believes in God.

    For that reason I personally do not believe in God but would be offended if anyone called me an atheist since they would be calling me an non-nice individual.
  113. Profile photo of YugureKage
    YugureKage Female 18-29
    1205 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 7:25 pm
    ah science makes me happy. ^_^
  114. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 7:28 pm
    angillion, really? well here are the dictionary definitions:

    Agnostic; a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

    Atheist; a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

    sooooooo, id say my definitions were pretty spot on there man.
  115. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 7:31 pm
    although, an agnostic can be someone who is just unwilling to commit to an opinion on anything, but thats a separate definition.
  116. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1793 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 7:40 pm
    Religion is a funny thing... invisible gods.... harrumph, harrumph, harrumph....
  117. Profile photo of SarahofBorg
    SarahofBorg Female 18-29
    3564 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 8:11 pm
    I`m pretty agnostic about this, I don`t see how evolution disproves the existence of God anymore than the theory of gravity does. It just disproves creationism. I chose to believe it`s impossible to prove the existence of the unprovable. I can no more prove God exists than I can prove I exist.
  118. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3849 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 8:21 pm
    if god truly exists, then why do things like child molestation and murder exist? are you saying that your merciful god would not be merciful to a child crying out in its final agony?

    oh, and what`s up with those burning bush thingees?
  119. Profile photo of Kayzer84
    Kayzer84 Male 18-29
    5 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 8:43 pm
    Find the argument kinda amusing but why the hate towards atheists? In my experience its a lot more common with religious nutcases trying to convert us to any given faith then the other way around. Personaly i have nothing against religion, but i cant stand the religious nutcases that are imune to common knowledge and brings up the bible as an answer to every question there is. Belive what you want, but dont force your imaginations to ppl that sticks to hard facts.
  120. Profile photo of SuperOnion
    SuperOnion Male 18-29
    151 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 8:45 pm
    This video doesn`t really make a point about disproving God. All it does is refute Creationist talking points. It`s not really going to change opinions but will instead give Atheists/Agnostics the ammo that they want. Believing/Not believing in God is a matter of opinion and more of a psychological construct. Certain folks, on BOTH ends of the Atheism/Religion debate, are so bullheaded that they are incapable of accepting that other people have different views. As a result, we have extremist Christians and smug Atheists who are condescending jerks. You can choose to either believe in God or you can choose not to but the best thing to do is just let sleeping dogs lie and not argue about who`s correct. The only way any of us will know is if we die, and even then we can`t tell everyone else.

    Also, I realize this sounds a little like Pascal`s Wager.
  121. Profile photo of button_guy
    button_guy Male 18-29
    171 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 8:53 pm
    God is soooo pissed right now.
  122. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:03 pm
    angillion, really?

    Yes, really.

    well here are the dictionary definitions:

    Your dictionary is wrong. Try the OED. Or look at the etymology. Or look at the usage, past or present, by people who are informed on the subject.

    I realise that in recent times there had been a campaign to change the meanings and it`s had considerable success, but it doesn`t make it right.
  123. Profile photo of snack1928
    snack1928 Male 18-29
    35 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:04 pm
    @slut_etta
    Child molestation and murder exists for the exact same reason doctors leave the USA and live in the jungles of Africa helping cure sickness and firefighters and cops and Mother Teresa exists/existed: free will. Why did kids disobey their parents when the parents are only looking out for the children`s best interest? Free will.
    By your logic, if God truly doesn`t exist, why do the aforementioned doctors, firefighters, and cops exist? Once again, free will. We can do whatever we want, but we do have to deal with the consequences. I believe that all of those child molesters and murderers will have to pay for their crimes, either on Earth, or when they are judged by God.
    The "burning bush thingees," as far as I know, there is only one burning bush in the Bible, and that was to get the attention of Moses. I mean, if you`re walking down the street and you see a bush on fire, but it isn`t burned or its ashes aren`t flying around, you would stop and see what`s
  124. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:06 pm
    For that reason I personally do not believe in God but would be offended if anyone called me an atheist since they would be calling me an non-nice individual.

    Do you think they`d think any better of you if they knew you didn`t believe in any gods but didn`t use the word meaning "person who doesn`t believe in any gods" because people like them have had some success in promoting the idea that people who don`t believe in gods are "non-nice" individuals?
  125. Profile photo of Kayzer84
    Kayzer84 Male 18-29
    5 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:25 pm
    And btw, why should you not label yourself as an atheist if you actually fit the description just because people might get a bad impression? Do you rly need the acceptance of narrowminded fools that cant see past that? I Disslike lots of guys, but i disslike em for their own actions, not just because they happen to be christian or atheist.
  126. Profile photo of aquaman1227
    aquaman1227 Male 18-29
    683 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:38 pm
    @Angilion

    Do you mind me asking what you do for a living? I`ve noticed you really enjoy discrediting people when it comes to these types of debates. lol.
  127. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14628 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:41 pm
    "I don`t see how evolution disproves the existence of God anymore than the theory of gravity does."

    It`s a weak link in their chain of logic. Christians are taught that every word in the bible is the literal word of gOD because if one single statement is disproved, then it opens the question of "What other parts are lies?" If Christians must concede that some of the bible is a stack of lies and even if other parts are not, but they have no way of proving which are not lies, then their faith and the religion that it is built upon falls like a house of cards.

    The bible is mostly made up of lots of stated opinion, `prophets` alleged discussions with gOD, infinite-future prophecy and semi-historical events that cannot be disproven, so it is hard to pin them down with testable facts. Creation statements and things like historical global floods that are said to have taken place "between 2500 BC and 2300 BC" are testable and just about the eve
  128. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:46 pm
    Funny thing, is any Christian in this thread is also an Atheist for all opposing religious viewpoints, and is only a "believer" for one out of thousands...

    Mind explained why you`re an "aetheist" for all these other "gods?"
  129. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14628 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 9:48 pm
    {hmm something went wrong with the end of the last post}

    ... just about everything that can be disproven has been. I have even more doubt about the gospel, as many parts are shown to have been written by people who cannot have been the stated authors, sometimes long after the supposed events. Furthermore, there are many conflicting accounts suppressed by the church at the First Council of Nicaea and throughout the history of the church. If they had to get their story straight by deleting gospels that didn`t agree then how can anyone trust them?
  130. Profile photo of HeadiesRusH
    HeadiesRusH Male 18-29
    328 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:10 pm
    Ok, I`m all for making fun of creationists, but after watching 2 minutes of this I`m only seeing nothing but dumb creationist arguments and then equally dumb counterarguments.
  131. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:18 pm
    Not going to get into the debate, but just want to pick up on one specific part of the discussion which I find interesting - specifically that part between Cobra and Angilion about the whole "Atheism" vs "Agnosticism" thing.

    I was taught growing up that the terms represent a scale, something like "Atheist - Agnostic - Theist". Like "black - grey - white", or "Don`t believe in God - Undecided - Do believe in God". However, I find it more helpful to think in the following way...
  132. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:18 pm
    Since A/Theism and A/Gnostism mean entirely different things, I like to think of it more as a matrix. By the very etymology of the words, Theism refers to belief (in context, specifially whether or not you believe in a God), wheras Gnostism refers to knowledge. I think those are very different things. I think it`s possible to be an agnostic atheist, a gnostic atheist, an agnostic theist, or a gnostic theist. Heck, I`m SO bored, I spent the last 10 minutes of my sad existence making a graphic to help explain my meaning:

  133. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:18 pm
    Now, as a professional scientist (sorry, no way of saying that without coming across as an arsehole), I think the only sensible stance to take is agnosticism. It`s how science works, and how it should work. So I`m very likely to only respect people on the left column of that matrix. Now, when it comes to Theism, that`s much more personal. I personally don`t believe in any God or Gods, but if I had grown up with different life experiences I might have turned out to be a believer. I would hope that I would have the humilty to remain agnostic either way.

    In my experience, most religious types I`ve encountered are Gnostic Theists (top right box in the matrix), wheras most atheists, and certainly the vast majority of scientists I know are Agnostic Atheists (lower left box in the matrix).
  134. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 10:18 pm
    Final thought (apologies for wall o` text): I have no problem with people being religious. I think what this video was trying to convey, with only partial success, is that when religion turns into creationism, then it has to smacked down. Specifically, when religion starts to encroach on the realm of science, then we have a problem. I know many religious people that accept the age of the universe, planet earth, evolution, and other demonstrably proven scientific principles. I have no beef with that, as I suspect most atheists don`t. But when a subset of theists try to subvert science and teach children of the 21st century lies, that`s when the faeces is gonna hit the oscillator, as they say.

    Davy out.
  135. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    June 11, 2011 at 11:54 pm
    Arguments I`ve actually seen in common use by creationists:
    2, 4, 5, 6
    Arguments not rebutted, or falsely rebutted: 5, 6, 7

    Arguments nothing to do with creationism: 4, 5, 7, 10

    Rebuttals containing falsehoods: 5, 6, 7

    And I`m including 11. "Just remember that your worldview is based on evidence...."

    Atheism is a conclusion. Speaking towards the method of reaching that conclusion simply because they share yours is in complete ignorance of any evidence.

    It is irrelevant to the speaker that they are atheist because of a decade of logical debate, or if they`re atheist because their friends are, or if they`re atheists because it`s fashionable, or from parental pressure.

    No matter what the circumstances, they have arrived there by evidence? No. Objectively false.
  136. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:00 am
    Slutetta:
    "if god truly exists, then why do things like child molestation and murder exist? are you saying that your merciful god would not be merciful to a child crying out in its final agony?"

    1) For over 3.7 billion people, Earth is, to be oversimplistic, a punishment.
    2) Suffering on earth is demonstrably, mathematically, irrelevant in that worldview.
    3) It could easily be argued based on the relativity of suffering, that no matter what level of punishment was deemed enough, we would be using that as the disproof of god. In a much more utopian world: "If God exists why do butterflies tickle?! I don`t like tickling!"

    4) It could easily be argued that without God we could be at risk of being torn apart by the infinite chaotic void of the universe.

    You`re only applying half the logic.
  137. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:05 am
    P.S. When I say you`re applying half the logic, I mean specifically:

    "If God exists" has more impact than just being a prop for your argument. If God exists, it is an easy argument to suggest that so does heaven.

    If God exists, HIM killing you is effectively moving you from one place to another.

    It is only if God doesn`t exist that death by any level of "act of God" becomes relevant.

    And finally 5 of course: Free will is considered more worthwhile than the imposition of law on humankind by God.

    This is the only logical conclusion drawn not just from your example, but by the theological history and creation of the human race.
  138. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:06 am
    "Designed to distract people" HA! That`s what half this video was.

    5. Atheism is actually a religion
    Has nothing to do with creationism

    6. Scientist X believes in God

    Nothing to do with Creationism. And Alchemy gets way too bad of a rep, its true to an extent. Matter can be changed to other things....just not very easily.
    Then he says that because X amount of institutions dont believe in Creationism, thus there is no such thing as a God.

    8. US was...
    Doesnt deal with creationism.

    10.... really?
  139. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:08 am
    Whoa, pause button.

    1) Who is CobraKiller
    2) Baal is a mod
    3) Davy, your old sagging ass is still here?

    Damn, its been awhile since I`ve been here....
  140. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:16 am
    Prime, you`ve been away too long. Tell your mom I said hello.
  141. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7935 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:19 am
    Still the same ol` Davy I see.

    Yeah, I doubt i`ll be on much. This is just one of those rare nights where i dont have anything to do and i also have insomnia.
  142. Profile photo of Oldfrt
    Oldfrt Male 50-59
    750 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:40 am
    Hmmm... I think I`ll take my opponent`s arguments out of context, toss in a half truth here and there, and sprinkle it with a little ad hominem name calling. That will help me prove that my opponents lie by taking things out of context, use half truths and call us names.

    I`m still waiting for a serious debate between believers and atheists. Haven`t heard a convincing argument on either side yet.
  143. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:59 am
    "Religion is the opiate of the masses" -- never heard truer words.
    Seriously, why spending so much time and efforts to convince people who have stood so firmly in their beliefs that they may never change? A little brainwash, some good propaganda and you`re set. The masses are not to be trusted, and certainly shouldn`t be expected so highly of. I may begin to sound like an authoritarian now, but unfortunately that is exactly how politics are always played -- the bewildered masses are always in the dark, kept silence by fears, force and lies.
  144. Profile photo of joey7415963
    joey7415963 Male 18-29
    174 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 1:44 am
    hmmm, I can see IAB is still nothing more than a debating ground for evolution vs creationism.

    See you in another 6 months, hopefully we will all have put our differences behind us by then
  145. Profile photo of KitFox
    KitFox Female 30-39
    595 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 1:51 am
    I still don`t see why it can`t be both.
  146. Profile photo of IshiiDaFishy
    IshiiDaFishy Male 18-29
    773 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 2:22 am
    Maaaan, this post neeeds more Buddha.


  147. Profile photo of kairobert
    kairobert Male 18-29
    1623 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 3:05 am
    It is sad to see that this comment forum has 6 pages.
  148. Profile photo of cuthere2
    cuthere2 Male 30-39
    317 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 4:21 am
    "3) It could easily be argued based on the relativity of suffering, that no matter what level of punishment was deemed enough, we would be using that as the disproof of god. In a much more utopian world: "If God exists why do butterflies tickle?! I don`t like tickling!"

    Absolutely 100% incorrect Baal... See, your comment completely ignores the supposed words of your own God - You know, that he loves his creation far more than human parents could even love their children, and he does not wish for ANY of them to suffer...

    Yet, he created parasites that slowly, and painfully kill their hosts, to the point many hosts commit suicide to get away from the pain. How about the parasite that eats the tongue of its victim, then embeds itself into the bloody wound, eating all the meals of the host until it starves to death 10 - 12 days later? What a LOVING God to conceive of such a thing!
  149. Profile photo of Burton_Ian
    Burton_Ian Male 18-29
    815 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 7:14 am
    Why is it that confrontation incubates some smug sense of superiority?
  150. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 7:30 am
    @Slutetta, Baal, et al:
    "if god truly exists, then why do things like child molestation and murder exist? are you saying that your merciful god would not be merciful to a child crying out in its final agony?"



    I never understand why people who make this argument conveniently forget 50% of the equation:

    1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

    Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

    It says might above because God does not violate freewill.

    Also...
  151. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 7:38 am
    Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
    Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
    Luk 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

    The kingdoms of the world were given to the Devil and are not currently under God or man`s control, if this were not the case, Jesus would have refuted this statement by the Devil, but instead he simply answered it by saying "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

    The Bible plainly states that there are two gods, and if you are going to argue the point you cant leave one out.

    2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God
  152. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 8:27 am
    @Angilion

    Do you mind me asking what you do for a living?

    Customer service flunkey for a very large company. Nothing of any importance at all, a menial job only a little above the capabilities of a trained chimpanzee.

    I`ve noticed you really enjoy discrediting people when it comes to these types of debates.

    I am frustrated by the tiny limit on the size of posts, which forces me to be curt.

    I tend to post after a day at work, which is often when I want to scream and throw faeces at people like the chimpanzees who can`t quite do my job.
  153. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 8:42 am
    I still don`t see why it can`t be both.

    Because in common practice Christian creationism and science in general are mutually exclusive.

    That`s why Christian creationists are incessantly campaigning to destroy science by deceit and corruption, like a parasite which fools the host`s defences by passing itself off as part of the host and which then feeds off the host. Hence things such as intelligent design, pretending that creationism is a theory and the overall promotion of the idea that "theory" means "guess". By convincing enough people that all this antiscience is science, they hope to destroy science by corrupting it.

    It`s a fundamentally dishonest approach, but it`s clever and it`s the only one they have now that they no longer have the authority to have people jailed, tortured and/or executed for thinking.
  154. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2514 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 8:43 am
    "I`ve noticed you really enjoy discrediting people when it comes to these types of debates"

    A large part of debating is discrediting your oponent and their views. If you were to remove discreditation from a debate, there would be no debate at all.
  155. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 9:01 am
    The Bible plainly states that there are two gods, and if you are going to argue the point you cant leave one out.

    A little under 800 years ago, that heresy prompted a particularly brutal "holy war" by the mainstream Christian church (Albigensian Crusade). Had you made that statement back then, you would have been very lucky if they killed you quickly.

    And that`s what Christian creationists would return us to if they succeed in destroying science and the general principle of trying to be rational.
  156. Profile photo of Sheilakh
    Sheilakh Male 13-17
    56 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 9:43 am
    Bam.
  157. Profile photo of green_btrfly
    green_btrfly Female 18-29
    751 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 11:59 am
    Why can`t we all just stfu about it, agree that religion is strictly a personal decision and each person has the right to believe what they want, and should stop imposing their beliefs on one another?! Oh.... right, cause we`re human beings. :/ I wish people were more aware of the human condition. But you know what they say "wish in one hand poo in the other" Clearly the only way everyone would be happy is if we take the humanity out of human beings.

    ONE LOVE
  158. Profile photo of green_btrfly
    green_btrfly Female 18-29
    751 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:00 pm
    P.S. that is not to say that this wasn`t incredibly interesting & educational!! I did enjoy the video, just not the "I have to prove you wrong" undertones, still facts are facts. :)
  159. Profile photo of flyducks
    flyducks Male 13-17
    231 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:02 pm
    So many posts...
  160. Profile photo of green_btrfly
    green_btrfly Female 18-29
    751 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 12:02 pm
    Oh- can an informed individual please answer me as to the Atheist`s position on how everything first came to be? I know it`s a difficult one- much like the chicken & the egg, but I do believe science proved it was indeed the chicken! (wait- I may have that wrong, lol) Seriously though- I want to know! :) I`m not looking to debate, just to eliminate ignorance.
  161. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Oh- can an informed individual please answer me as to the Atheist`s position on how everything first came to be?

    If you`re refering to this particular atheist, his position is that he doesn`t know.

    If you`re refering to atheists in general, there isn`t one. There isn`t an atheist position on anything apart from not believing in any gods. Atheism isn`t a religion or a philosophy or anything at all other than that one thing - a lack of belief in gods. So it doesn`t have any single view on anything else. It`s not even a thing, so it shouldn`t be capitalised.

    I think most atheists would go with "I don`t know" because they don`t know and don`t have any doctrinal requirement to have faith in any particular explanation.
  162. Profile photo of the_phantom
    the_phantom Male 18-29
    510 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 2:16 pm
    while i dont disagree with what this video has to say, i feel that they are being total dicks about it.

    I find it almost laughable that science and religion can`t coexist peacefully. My family consists mostl of scientists, but we are all religious as well. In our belief, there is an omnipotent entity, but it isnt as directly active as traditional religion likes us to believe. If it did anythign at all, it created a situation in which a bang could occur to begin life and allow it to evolve naturally. we belive that god works through these small acts of chance and chain reaction, not through direct intervention.

    why is the union of science and religion so hard to conceive?
  163. Profile photo of green_btrfly
    green_btrfly Female 18-29
    751 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 2:55 pm
    ANGILION:

    Thanks! That makes sense, and I know it`s not a religion, it is the absense of, just like black is not a color it is the absense of color...etc.

    I appreciate you answering me kindly, I was afraid I would get flmaed or trolled on it, and I really was just curious!

    Have a good week!
  164. Profile photo of theorion
    theorion Male 40-49
    20 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 4:07 pm
    Green Btrfly - just to talk about the chicken and the egg comment for a moment of digression; the egg came millions of years before the chickens as dinosaurs and other early reptiles were hatched from eggs - chickens are descendants of those reptiles.
  165. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 4:15 pm
    much like the chicken & the egg, but I do believe science proved it was indeed the chicken! (wait- I may have that wrong, lol)

    Eggs (for other animals) existed long before chickens, but that`s not really what the question is about.

    I`d say it must have been the egg first, because how else would the first chicken have been born? If a chicken was born from an egg, then that egg was by definition a chicken egg and thus the first chicken egg existed before the first chicken.

    So as I see it, the most likely explanation is that an animal that was almost but not quite a chicken laid a chicken egg.
  166. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 6:52 pm
    I`m confused, is the universe not a closed system anymore? I do understand entropy and evolution, but that`s just a shtitty argument on this guy`s part. I can put it in the context of how entropy works, but this dude`s discredited himself on that point. Now he`s opened himself up for attack from people who understand entropy (me) and have differing views (not me).
  167. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm
    And Angillion, you`re wrong about the chicken-egg thing. The egg is formed by the parent so the egg the first chicken came from was formed by its mother and lacked several proteins that would make it a chicken egg, at least chemically and biologically speaking. It would be classified as belonging to whatever species immediately preceded chickens, some sort of African jungle fowl. The first part is right though, about the other animals before chickens having eggs.
  168. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 8:01 pm
    I`m confused, is the universe not a closed system anymore? I do understand entropy and evolution, but that`s just a shtitty argument on this guy`s part.
    He stated that planet Earth is not a closed system, not the universe. Which is an entirely valid point, as that argument is most often invoked to discredit evolution on Earth.
  169. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 8:04 pm
    I`m confused, is the universe not a closed system anymore? I do understand entropy and evolution, but that`s just a shtitty argument on this guy`s part.

    Wait a minute so plants on Earth AREN`T getting light from the sun or people AREN`T sunburned. Sorry bub you just made an even 5h177ier rebuttal.
  170. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 8:07 pm
    [quote">I`d say it must have been the egg first[/quote">

    I know you`re a very rational person but scientists in your own country say the opposite is true.
  171. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 8:36 pm
    Cajun/davy The universe as a whole`s entropy will always increase, so using the creationist logic, evolution should exist nowhere in the universe. It won`t happen on earth, Mars, Venus, the Betelgeuse system, the Crab Nebula, anywhere. Earth can`t be removed from the closed universal system, so it`s not a valid point, no matter the conditions he places on it. If he can create impossible scenarios for his argument, then so can creationists. Plus, if the sun was the only source of energy for evolution, then there should be no evolution underground or in the deep sea, which is where most evolution occurs on the planet. He should have stated that the processes that cause evolution increase the net entropy of the universe, though it doesn`t appear so. That statement doesn`t even require outside energy to be applicable and is actually accurate. If he were to get into an argument with someone who actually knows what they are talking about, he will lose on that point.
  172. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 8:59 pm
    Cajun/davy The universe as a whole`s entropy will always increase, so using the creationist logic, evolution should exist nowhere in the universe. It won`t happen on earth, Mars, Venus, the Betelgeuse system, the Crab Nebula, anywhere. Earth can`t be removed from the closed universal system, so it`s not a valid point, no matter the conditions he places on it. If he can create impossible scenarios for his argument, then so can creationists.
    Wait, you`re making no sense whatsoever, especially for someone who claims to "understand entropy". Are you seriously suggesting that because the universe is a closed system, then everything within that universe is also a closed system? That there is no such thing as an open system, that has inputs and outputs, such a thing doesn`t even exist?
  173. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 9:00 pm
    "Earth can`t be removed from the closed universal system" you say. We have a goddam Sun, just for starters.

    Here`s some non-closed systems, entirely off the top of my head, that are entirely within the closed system of the universe: I can make ice-cubes in my freezer, because I`m applying cold via freon. I can make a seed grow into a complex flower, because I`m applying sunlight and water. I can make a building, because I`m applying concrete and blueprints. All (abstract, but relevant) open systems.

    To say that entropy prevails because the entire universe is a closed system is a stange concept. The Earth, as pointed out in the video, is NOT a closed system. Seems like a weird thing to pick up on, especially since you posit yourself as knowledgable on entropy and evolution...

    I think where you went wrong was to use the term "creationist logic" in the same sentence.
  174. Profile photo of Schr0dinger
    Schr0dinger Male 50-59
    359 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 9:25 pm
    Boring.
  175. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm
    Yes, that`s exactly what I`m saying, if the universe is a closed system, which it is, then everything in it must be part of a closed system. Therefore, using the creationist logic, which the video maker also uses, there should be no complex development anywhere within the universe. However, if you recognize that organization requires work (and therefore creates entropy), then there is no issue.

    Anyway, all the processes you mention create more entropy by the method of their creation than is removed by their organization. And the energy sources that fuel all these organizational processes has to be a part of the system, it also uses energy and therefore increases entropy. There is always an increase in energy, you just chose not to acknowledge where it happens.
  176. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 9:51 pm
    Angilion: Creationists are not trying to destroy science, But atheists are trying to destroy religion by any means they can, including science.

    Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. God is all-powerful, he doesn`t need to follow the rules or theories of science as perceived by mankind.

    That is where atheists fail, they try to use conditions, rules, theories, and hypothesis to try and box in `God` and say that since we as humans can`t do or conceive of `a thing`, then God can`t either.

    Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them, and said, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
  177. Profile photo of viczko
    viczko Male 13-17
    906 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 10:01 pm
    Boom, roasted.
  178. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 10:14 pm
    Ah, Crakrjak weighed in at last. Wondering where you were, buddy.

    Creationists are not trying to destroy science
    Oh yes, you, and people like you, most certainly are. Kentucky would be a good place to start, at the "Creation Museum".

    God is all-powerful, he doesn`t need to follow the rules or theories of science as perceived by mankind... "Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them, and said, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

    Well, at least you`re actually quoting the Bible this time, circular logic as it is. Last time you posted a quote from the Bible was:

    John 8:32 "We cannot ransom our fellow-sinners, but we may point out Christ to them; while by his grace our lives may adorn his gospel, express our love, show our gratitude, and glorify his holy name."

    Which is no-where in the bible. Good to see that you`ve read the book since.
  179. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 10:20 pm
    Sorry to repost from an earlier post of mine on this thread, but I said previously: "Final thought (apologies for wall o` text): I have no problem with people being religious. I think what this video was trying to convey, with only partial success, is that when religion turns into creationism, then it has to smacked down. Specifically, when religion starts to encroach on the realm of science, then we have a problem. I know many religious people that accept the age of the universe, planet earth, evolution, and other demonstrably proven scientific principles. I have no beef with that, as I suspect most atheists don`t. But when a subset of theists try to subvert science and teach children of the 21st century lies, that`s when the faeces is gonna hit the oscillator, as they say.

    Davy out."
  180. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 10:21 pm
    That threat was directed directly at people like you, Crakrjak.

    For the scientifically literate, and those with time on their hands, I`ll post this back-and-forth on basic mathematics, where CJ embarassed himself in public. Dude, I`m not going to do it any more. It`s like kicking a puppy.
  181. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 10:34 pm
    Therefore, using the creationist logic, which the video maker also uses, there should be no complex development anywhere within the universe.

    Except that Earth is an open system interacting with other open systems within a closed system. So there will be a period of time in which complex life can arise from less complex life.
  182. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 10:41 pm
    then everything in it must be part of a closed system

    Irrelevant.
  183. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 11:33 pm
    And Angillion, you`re wrong about the chicken-egg thing. The egg is formed by the parent so the egg the first chicken came from was formed by its mother and lacked several proteins that would make it a chicken egg, at least chemically and biologically speaking. It would be classified as belonging to whatever species immediately preceded chickens, some sort of African jungle fowl.

    So why did this non-chicken egg hatch into a chicken? Or, to put it another way, why is this egg that hatched into a chicken not a chicken egg?
  184. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 11:37 pm
    Plus, if the sun was the only source of energy for evolution, then there should be no evolution underground or in the deep sea, which is where most evolution occurs on the planet.

    That might be true if "underground" and "in the deep sea" were places entirely removed from the atmosphere and surface of the planet, without any possibility of any connection between them. Which, obviously, isn`t the case.
  185. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 12, 2011 at 11:39 pm
    Angilion: Creationists are not trying to destroy science, But atheists are trying to destroy religion by any means they can, including science.

    Crakrjak, you are so ignorant of science, religion and Christian creationism that replying to you is worthwhile only to the extent that it amuses me to watch you making stuff up.

    Which isn`t much.
  186. Profile photo of Plague555
    Plague555 Male 18-29
    553 posts
    June 13, 2011 at 3:02 am
    OMFG i loooooooove the thermodynamics its like drating getting buzzed or something. omg i love it love it. Freaking people don`t understand open/closed system.
  187. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 13, 2011 at 4:57 am
    @the_phantom

    "why is the union of science and religion so hard to conceive?"

    Science is a method of thinking in which one believes nothing until it is proven.

    Religion is a method of thinking in which one believes in something unproven.

    They are entirely antithetical.
  188. Profile photo of BobbyJenkins
    BobbyJenkins Female 18-29
    106 posts
    June 13, 2011 at 6:49 am
    Angillon, he`s saying it IS a chicken egg.
  189. Profile photo of Pheeshy5
    Pheeshy5 Male 18-29
    1312 posts
    June 13, 2011 at 11:18 am
    My favorite one is the Banana argument. It only proves evolution even more. Silly religious people and their nanners.
  190. Profile photo of cstrike2
    cstrike2 Male 13-17
    5 posts
    June 13, 2011 at 5:05 pm
    heres what i want to ask then. Where did we come from, what did we start as? that question can never be answered by either side and no matter the theory everything had to have been created by something else. That argument can be placed on both sides, so there`s no point arguing over it. Creationists believe a being created them and Atheists believe that we all started as cells, etc., whatever your belief is, and evolved etc. But the question remains that everything had to of been created or evolved from something else and most atheists ignore that in their arguments. I did find this very informational though.
  191. Profile photo of funnehkitteh
    funnehkitteh Male 18-29
    528 posts
    June 13, 2011 at 6:25 pm
    oh stfu christians and athiests stop being so roostery, religion will go away soon
  192. Profile photo of funnehkitteh
    funnehkitteh Male 18-29
    528 posts
    June 13, 2011 at 6:26 pm
    lol i like the spell check roostery XD
  193. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 13, 2011 at 6:51 pm
    But the question remains that everything had to of been created or evolved from something else and most atheists ignore that in their arguments.

    No they don`t. Atheists have no problem with the idea that everything around today evolved from something else. There`s plenty of evidence for it and in any case evolution is not a god so obviously it`s irrelevant to atheism. As for the first things, an atheist can answer "I don`t know" and be fine with that. Abiogenesis is not evolution.

    As for "Where did we come from, what did we start as?", those are two very different seperate questions, not one question. You`re right that the first one can`t be answered yet, but that`s not a problem for an atheist. An atheist can say "I don`t know".

    everything had to have been created by something else.

    That makes the existence of anything impossible. So obviously it isn`t true.
  194. Profile photo of obhwfgirl
    obhwfgirl Female 18-29
    582 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 4:03 pm
    I know this is an atheist video, but their dogmatic rhetoric irks me as much as religious rhetoric does. Scientific belief is not exclusive from spiritual belief -- just religious fundamentalism.
  195. Profile photo of smalltowngrl
    smalltowngrl Female 18-29
    10 posts
    July 11, 2011 at 1:38 pm
    Oh atheists do u think before you speak or do u just flap ur face lol. I`ve been a Christian (not naming denomination) all my life. By MY OWN study and choice. Seeing the ignorance in atheism. Anyways I have never used any of these as arguments they just are provocation points. For creationists as well as atheists. I don`t see any rhyme or reason to this video. And just proves to me that the group that made this video has NO IDEA what they are saying. Most christians I know would laugh at this video as I did....

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