The Truth About the Economy

Submitted by: kitteh9lives 5 years ago in Misc

Robert Reich connects the dots on the economy, in less than 2 minutes and 15 seconds. Right or wrong I-A-B?
There are 58 comments:
Male 10,855


...and in related news Obama blames the unemployment on ATM machines
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Male 17,512
Hephaestus: It`s been too long as it is now, If we were really serious about the unemployment problem we would end the insurance payments and people would get off their ass and find work.
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Male 35
@CrakrJak:
Yeah, I noticed that. Not terribly surprising given prolong and deep recessions.
Don`t think many are interested in making that a long term slice of the pie.
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Male 25,416
So many truths are made up :)
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Male 17,512
Hephaestus: You will note that unemployment payments have swelled to more than is paid out for medicare now.

Some people have been on unemployment nearly two years now.
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Male 37,741
Lee Doren DEBUNKS REICH here.

I mean really! Tax cuts have CAUSED the deficit to grow? fluff and nonsense! It`s already been proven that taking ALL THE MONEY (not just taxes) from the super-rich STILL wouldn`t plug the deficit! Reich is a communists hard-core nutjob.
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Male 383
Meh, just tax the sh*te out of everyone, that`ll let you pay off your debt! And then there`s lots of angry people with no money left to spend, meaning they are easy to control and oppress. Problem solved ;)
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Male 35
@CrakrJak:
Thanks. You`re right, it is a little hard to see, could you go ahead and just CSI that image for me? "Enhance" :-P

Anyway, I found the previous years data on wiki and found that the items you call "Public Sector" spending hasn`t really changed between the two recent administrations. Although Medicaid and Department of Defense flipped their percentages. Tried to compare it to 1996 as well, but the layout and names are different. Looks like the department of defense swelled going from Clinton to Bush.

It`s not all complete, but here is the link for those interested: Link


Regardless, I think I-See-U is right. It`s about the quality of life and not the percentages alone. As a country, we should look out for each other; not horde the resources in
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Male 362
So then, the solution is obvious. GET RID OF THE INCOME TAX AND DRASTICALLY REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
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Male 40
MoveOn.org at the end... no f`ing wonder. The middle class can`t borrow any more? Borrowing is what got us into this trouble!
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Male 17,512
Hephaestus:



It might be hard to see (the color key is kind of small), but medicare, medicaid, social security, welfare, and unemployment made up over 50% of last years budget.
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Male 35
@I-See-U:
Personally, I`m not discounting the "unquantifiable" human element. And I don`t think anyone here should. It`s why I brought up 39% of 30k is VERY different than 39% of 370K. But I am interested in sources of "knowledge".

@CrakrJak:
While I don`t disagree about the nature of the paperwork or the potential to intentionally confuse, it`s a little beyond the point at the moment. I just wanted to see the link you were looking at to make the claim that half of the deficit is public spending. I assumed you had looked at it to make such a claim, so I was hoping you could provide the link and save everyone else the trouble of having to wade through the nonsensical links and bloated data.


BTW, this was a similar link to what I mentioned before where 3 parts make up about 63% of the budget. I bet there are trimmings to be made in there.
Male 3,462
I disagree with raising minimum wages. Sure it`s nice to have but it discourages growth for smaller businesses and minimum wage jobs aren`t supposed to be "permanent" jobs. They are supposed to be for students, people who just need a job until they find something in their field etc. They`re not supposed to be careers.

If you keep asking for higher and higher wages, businesses will hire less and less people, or even hire people illegally, or pay them under the table at a lower wage.

Government needs to spend less on frivolous and failing programs, such as social security, but spend more on higher education opportunities to educate people so that they can get something better than a minimum wage job.
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Male 17,512
Hephaestus: I agree, US government budgets are so full of crap spending the bill is the size of an encyclopedia every year. That should be a telling clue as to just how bloated and wasteful our government really is.

No one in their right mind would sign a contract for a house, car, or business or anything else with that many pages to it, because common sense would tell you that somewhere buried in the fine print is a way for the contractor to screw you over. And that is just what our government is doing to us every year.
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Male 15,832
Of course the ONLY reason every centrally planned economy in the history of the world has failed is because they never had anybody as smart as Robert Reisssssssssshuh put in charge.
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Male 2,592
Damn peasants always asking for livable wages.. how dare they.
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Male 37,741
MoveOn is a far-leftist, Obama-loving group. It`s a fact!
Hey! Every single time FoxNews is on, the left ALL chant "Faux News is dumb!"

His `points` got worse and worse. Also farther and farther LEFTIST. Coincidence? I think not.

WHat crap, I hope the comments have already de-bunked this bunkum.
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Male 354
So you guys keep looking up those numbers and keep forgetting that the quality of life has kept dropping since your parents were kids. Sure you might, have a new gadget or shiny new truck, but 20-40 years ago you didn`t have to work as hard for it.
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Male 354
All the numbers or percentages or tax cuts/increases do not translate into quality of life. It is all about what is done with the "product" that matters.

Sure wal-mart or (insert fortune 500 company) is good for the economy and creates jobs, no problem there. With that extreme growth comes extreme power, again no problem there. The problem lies in what is done with that power.

The agenda of big companies is the $ and not the quality of life for its workers.

Our government is helping them.

What is being done is screwing the average Joe for the benefit of mighty Bob in the hopes that Bob will one day turn around and help out Joe. (bailouts, loans, closing your eyes while you know there is going to be a bubble etc.)

Don`t even know who the hell the guy in the post is or even if he`s accurate enough, but I do know that I`m witnessing more and more control by smaller and smaller groups.
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Male 35
CrakrJak
I`m not terribly familiar with government databases and even when I am, they aren`t all as easy to look through.
I`d still appreciate your source though, very interested to see it. Helps to be sure I`m looking at the same information as others.

The only recent spending chart I`ve seen put military, healthcare and social security as an overwhelming amount of the spending (over 60%?). As much as I do try to keep sources of interesting data, I may have failed to capture that one. I can take a look though.
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Male 17,512
Hephaestus: all I have to say is take a good look at the 2009 and 2010 government budgets, It`s all in there.
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Male 35
Thanks auburnjunky... I`ll delve into it more when I`m not cooking in the kitchen on high heat (is that smoke I smell?).

The text seems to be referring to the marginal tax rate. The chart seems to be showing what the effective rate would be, though I hope the data source is easy to get to, I want to see the data that composes that chart. Should I assume this is before tax deductions or credits, charitable donations or is it the end effective rate? Just wondering given how easy it is to monkey with numbers.

The tax rate may be beside the point and the real question of interest for me is "what is a dollar worth" to those groups. Saying 39% of income is tax means different things to a 30K earner and a 370K+ earner.

Side note, when I made 35K, I was supposedly in the top 50% bracket for earning according to the IRS website... think that was in 2009.

Back to the kitchen **whoosh**
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Male 10,440
[quote] If you tax the rich too much you slow the flow of money in the market [/quote]
And how is that exactly? You people keep saying that but have you ever proved it?

The video may be completely wrong, but I don`t see much of an argument against it here.

AJ if that chart is correct, then your society is more segregated than I thought.

Imagine for a moment that you make $10M/year. How are you possibly going to spend that? Money becomes meaningless to you. I don`t see how you wouldn`t be able to live the most luxurious, comfortable life one can live on a mere 2 million/year.

From what I`ve seen, the rich don`t spend their money nearly as much as the other classes do for the simple reason that they don`t need to.
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Male 10,339
to expound on randomxnp`s point, most McDonald`s, are locally owned franchises, therefore they are considered small business.
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Male 1,293
I-See-You

"You drive down the street and see a wal-mart and a McDonalds at every corner. While also seeing an empty shopping center where small businesses where once thriving."

What relevance does that have to the issue? These are businesses (in the case of McD mostly small businesses) supplying consumer demand. In the case of Walmart increasing retail efficiency which is great for the economy - with its low prices especially beneficial to those with low income. There existence does not support anything in this idiotic propaganda piece.
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Male 10,339
Here you go Hephaestus. My numbers were a tad off, but not much.


It`s from Greg Mankiw`s blog. he is a professor of economics at Harvard.
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Male 1,293
Remember this crap is sponsored by MoveOn.

Remember MoveOn is sponsored by George Soros (undeniably super-rich, incidentally).

Remember Soros made his money as a speculator.

Remember that the best bet for a speculator is in a distorted market, especially if the speculator has rigged the show.

Remember that socialism distorts markets, and always favours some special interest in a predictable fashion, at the expense of the majority, allowing speculators to see a sure thing (although they might yet lose in Greece, let us hope).

So why is this man giving socialist propaganda?
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Male 35
A good rule for anyone, but if you are going to make statements, can you please provide a link to your source? It`s so tedious to see this back and forth when it has no grounds for it.

In particular, I`d like to see the source for:
@CrakrJak: "Public sector spending by the government amounts to over half our budget deficit and keeps rising every year, and that is not counting military and defense spending."

@auburnjunky: Did you mean marginal or effective tax rate for your 35% and 23%. Source if possible.

I just like to collect data from each view point (my bookmark file is.... large and messy to say the least). Thanks
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Male 914
I think this is the first time that CrakrJak is NOT completely full of crap.
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Male 2,384
thats been the problem all along, the rich are being taxed to little
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Male 73
CAUTION! This video contains large amounts of bull*hit.
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Male 934
A naive and childishly idealistic oversimplification of the economy. The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is a symptom, not a cause of the state of the economy. If you tax the rich too much you slow the flow of money in the market, causing growth to slow even further.

The truth is that even the best economists in the world can`t predict what`s going to happen with any certainty. It`s like asking a weatherman to predict the weather a month away. Too many factors to consider.
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Male 441
It gets even worst when you think about the fact that money is just debt, and currently there is not enough money to pay off all loans, so money creation continues and yet, eventually, the system will collapse on itself.
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Male 17,512
Reich is full of crap in this video.

Public union wages have had 3-5% yearly mandatory increases for decades, That`s double what the cost of living index has been. That is also much more than private sector workers pay raises have been.

Public sector spending by the government amounts to over half our budget deficit and keeps rising every year, and that is not counting military and defense spending.

Also, people that earn `capital gains` are taxed twice, Once for the capital gain itself and again for the income they derive from it.

Sorry Robert, It`s not that taxes are too low, It`s because the government spends too damn much and wastes most of it!

If this country would cut out all the wasteful spending, freeze other spending for a few years, and lower taxes our economy would bounce back.
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Male 6,227
I love Robert Reich. Reading through the comments, I`ve yet to see a single refutation of his points that holds any water.
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Male 10,339
@calculator: That isn`t true. If a poor person buys 1 stock, and it makes money, that is a capital gain. He must pay 15% on that gain. All Americans pay 15% on capital gains.
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Male 10,339
Also, the reason why profits stay the same, is because companies widen their profit margins to make up for increased regulations/taxes on their operation. A business owner will make his money regardless. We need to make it easier for him to do so, so he will be more apt to share his good fortune by hiring more people/innovating his products. etc.
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Male 29
Evan it`s because people who don`t own companies don`t pay capital gains taxes. Plus they`re usually covering many different insurances and balancing the bottom line to stay competitive and realize a profit. Most businesses are less than 100 employees and not making ridiculous amounts. In this world there is a lot of dough to stack
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Male 10,339
@evan:

What this video fails to tell you, is that the capital gains tax applies to ALL AMERICANS, not just the ultra rich.

Now that that`s out of the way. Yes it is true that the ultra rich (over $250k a year) are taxed at about a 35% tax rate, the average for the rest of the wage earners in this country pay, on average, about 23%.

So the rich pay more of a percentage than the poor. This is why this video is inciting class warfare, because it is filled with misinformation and fear mongering. It invites the poor and less educated to hate the upper class, so the liberals in this country can shift the wealth that the upper class EARNED.
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Male 559
"He forgot to mention how the top few percentage of income earners pay the vast, overwhelming majority of the taxes. Kinda missed that part, eh Rob?"

Whaa!? Did you just miss the whole part about the rich paying taxes on capital gains? The ultrarich pay a lower percentage of annual income than does the average American.
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Male 29
yesyes auburnjunky. Fine then, if this were the sole soul problem with America tweak inheritance.

AW MAN WHAT DO THEY DO WITH ALL THAT MONEY!!1!
usually putting gas back into the system with investment, but not while pinko in the whitehouse drats law and policy. Multiple trillions held outside of market by private investors should do the trick, what a total rejection of these spread the wealth around policies.

So America should change because the smartest guys in the world, who don`t happen to operate on facts, and are all flower children ex-hippies who make terrible foreign policy decisions, say so. We`ll feed you our flag.
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Male 533
How is this news? (my favorite quote I see here all the time)
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Male 605
@auburn. It may be baiting... but are you doubting its truthfulness?
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Male 415
He forgot point 7. revolution. The time where the poor are sick of it and start killing off the rich. And then simply bow down to another generation of rich people and politician.
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Male 550
The truth about the economy?? You want the truth?! You can`t handle the truth!!
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Male 734
He forgot to mention how the top few percentage of income earners pay the vast, overwhelming majority of the taxes. Kinda missed that part, eh Rob?
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Male 10,339
Liberal class warfare baiting is liberal.
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Male 354
@randomxnp

Your video response is crap. I don`t need someone to tell me what I am seeing with my own eyes are not true.

You drive down the street and see a wal-mart and a McDonalds at every corner. While also seeing an empty shopping center where small businesses where once thriving.

Besides you are from Europe what would you know...
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Male 411
point made...but people are too lazy to care :(
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Female 2,509
bored, and depressed. WTF
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Male 151
Well, yes that about covers it.
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Male 3,310
Everybody loves anti-rich sentiment. Well, at least the poor do. So, I mean, you guys should love this.
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Male 328
horray republicans!
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Male 10,339
I was bored, now I am nauseous from all the misinformation.
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Male 1,293
Between lies and basic economic ignorance this is a worthless piece of video.

For a video response see tinyurl.com/68akdjz

For a full rebuttal read tinyurl.com/3gm79s9

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Male 591
Spot on.
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Male 354
I was bored.... now I`m pissed off.
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Female 8,044
Link: The Truth About the Economy [Rate Link] - Robert Reich connects the dots on the economy, in less than 2 minutes and 15 seconds. Right or wrong I-A-B?
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