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Date: 06/20/11 12:51 PM

58 Responses to The Truth About the Economy

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 11:57 am
    Link: The Truth About the Economy - Robert Reich connects the dots on the economy, in less than 2 minutes and 15 seconds. Right or wrong I-A-B?
  2. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    I was bored.... now I`m pissed off.
  3. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:31 pm
    Spot on.
  4. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:32 pm
    Between lies and basic economic ignorance this is a worthless piece of video.

    For a video response see tinyurl.com/68akdjz

    For a full rebuttal read tinyurl.com/3gm79s9

  5. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:39 pm
    I was bored, now I am nauseous from all the misinformation.
  6. Profile photo of cndman15
    cndman15 Male 18-29
    328 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    horray republicans!
  7. Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3284 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    Everybody loves anti-rich sentiment. Well, at least the poor do. So, I mean, you guys should love this.
  8. Profile photo of bombaytech
    bombaytech Male 18-29
    151 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    Well, yes that about covers it.
  9. Profile photo of edana42
    edana42 Female 50-59
    2509 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    bored, and depressed. WTF
  10. Profile photo of MightyPeanut
    MightyPeanut Male 30-39
    411 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    point made...but people are too lazy to care :(
  11. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    @randomxnp

    Your video response is crap. I don`t need someone to tell me what I am seeing with my own eyes are not true.

    You drive down the street and see a wal-mart and a McDonalds at every corner. While also seeing an empty shopping center where small businesses where once thriving.

    Besides you are from Europe what would you know...
  12. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 1:49 pm
    Liberal class warfare baiting is liberal.
  13. Profile photo of vegascartman
    vegascartman Male 30-39
    735 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 2:35 pm
    He forgot to mention how the top few percentage of income earners pay the vast, overwhelming majority of the taxes. Kinda missed that part, eh Rob?
  14. Profile photo of BBJellyFish
    BBJellyFish Male 18-29
    550 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 2:40 pm
    The truth about the economy?? You want the truth?! You can`t handle the truth!!
  15. Profile photo of Zieveraar
    Zieveraar Male 30-39
    415 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 2:46 pm
    He forgot point 7. revolution. The time where the poor are sick of it and start killing off the rich. And then simply bow down to another generation of rich people and politician.
  16. Profile photo of hatface
    hatface Male 18-29
    605 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 2:53 pm
    @auburn. It may be baiting... but are you doubting its truthfulness?
  17. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 3:15 pm
    How is this news? (my favorite quote I see here all the time)
  18. Profile photo of calculator
    calculator Male 18-29
    29 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 3:31 pm
    yesyes auburnjunky. Fine then, if this were the sole soul problem with America tweak inheritance.

    AW MAN WHAT DO THEY DO WITH ALL THAT MONEY!!1!
    usually putting gas back into the system with investment, but not while pinko in the whitehouse drats law and policy. Multiple trillions held outside of market by private investors should do the trick, what a total rejection of these spread the wealth around policies.

    So America should change because the smartest guys in the world, who don`t happen to operate on facts, and are all flower children ex-hippies who make terrible foreign policy decisions, say so. We`ll feed you our flag.
  19. Profile photo of evanbartlett
    evanbartlett Male 30-39
    559 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 3:44 pm
    "He forgot to mention how the top few percentage of income earners pay the vast, overwhelming majority of the taxes. Kinda missed that part, eh Rob?"

    Whaa!? Did you just miss the whole part about the rich paying taxes on capital gains? The ultrarich pay a lower percentage of annual income than does the average American.
  20. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 3:56 pm
    @evan:

    What this video fails to tell you, is that the capital gains tax applies to ALL AMERICANS, not just the ultra rich.

    Now that that`s out of the way. Yes it is true that the ultra rich (over $250k a year) are taxed at about a 35% tax rate, the average for the rest of the wage earners in this country pay, on average, about 23%.

    So the rich pay more of a percentage than the poor. This is why this video is inciting class warfare, because it is filled with misinformation and fear mongering. It invites the poor and less educated to hate the upper class, so the liberals in this country can shift the wealth that the upper class EARNED.
  21. Profile photo of calculator
    calculator Male 18-29
    29 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 4:01 pm
    Evan it`s because people who don`t own companies don`t pay capital gains taxes. Plus they`re usually covering many different insurances and balancing the bottom line to stay competitive and realize a profit. Most businesses are less than 100 employees and not making ridiculous amounts. In this world there is a lot of dough to stack
  22. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 4:03 pm
    Also, the reason why profits stay the same, is because companies widen their profit margins to make up for increased regulations/taxes on their operation. A business owner will make his money regardless. We need to make it easier for him to do so, so he will be more apt to share his good fortune by hiring more people/innovating his products. etc.
  23. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 4:05 pm
    @calculator: That isn`t true. If a poor person buys 1 stock, and it makes money, that is a capital gain. He must pay 15% on that gain. All Americans pay 15% on capital gains.
  24. Profile photo of Squrlz4Sale
    Squrlz4Sale Male 40-49
    6230 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 4:31 pm
    I love Robert Reich. Reading through the comments, I`ve yet to see a single refutation of his points that holds any water.
  25. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 4:41 pm
    Reich is full of crap in this video.

    Public union wages have had 3-5% yearly mandatory increases for decades, That`s double what the cost of living index has been. That is also much more than private sector workers pay raises have been.

    Public sector spending by the government amounts to over half our budget deficit and keeps rising every year, and that is not counting military and defense spending.

    Also, people that earn `capital gains` are taxed twice, Once for the capital gain itself and again for the income they derive from it.

    Sorry Robert, It`s not that taxes are too low, It`s because the government spends too damn much and wastes most of it!

    If this country would cut out all the wasteful spending, freeze other spending for a few years, and lower taxes our economy would bounce back.
  26. Profile photo of Ogen
    Ogen Male 18-29
    441 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 4:44 pm
    It gets even worst when you think about the fact that money is just debt, and currently there is not enough money to pay off all loans, so money creation continues and yet, eventually, the system will collapse on itself.
  27. Profile photo of Rawrg
    Rawrg Male 18-29
    934 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 4:47 pm
    A naive and childishly idealistic oversimplification of the economy. The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is a symptom, not a cause of the state of the economy. If you tax the rich too much you slow the flow of money in the market, causing growth to slow even further.

    The truth is that even the best economists in the world can`t predict what`s going to happen with any certainty. It`s like asking a weatherman to predict the weather a month away. Too many factors to consider.
  28. Profile photo of alibi19
    alibi19 Male 18-29
    73 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 5:03 pm
    CAUTION! This video contains large amounts of bull*hit.
  29. Profile photo of ledzeppeloyd
    ledzeppeloyd Male 18-29
    2385 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 5:09 pm
    thats been the problem all along, the rich are being taxed to little
  30. Profile photo of intrigid
    intrigid Male 18-29
    914 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 5:10 pm
    I think this is the first time that CrakrJak is NOT completely full of crap.
  31. Profile photo of Hephaestus
    Hephaestus Male 18-29
    35 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 5:51 pm
    A good rule for anyone, but if you are going to make statements, can you please provide a link to your source? It`s so tedious to see this back and forth when it has no grounds for it.

    In particular, I`d like to see the source for:
    @CrakrJak: "Public sector spending by the government amounts to over half our budget deficit and keeps rising every year, and that is not counting military and defense spending."

    @auburnjunky: Did you mean marginal or effective tax rate for your 35% and 23%. Source if possible.

    I just like to collect data from each view point (my bookmark file is.... large and messy to say the least). Thanks
  32. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 5:55 pm
    Remember this crap is sponsored by MoveOn.

    Remember MoveOn is sponsored by George Soros (undeniably super-rich, incidentally).

    Remember Soros made his money as a speculator.

    Remember that the best bet for a speculator is in a distorted market, especially if the speculator has rigged the show.

    Remember that socialism distorts markets, and always favours some special interest in a predictable fashion, at the expense of the majority, allowing speculators to see a sure thing (although they might yet lose in Greece, let us hope).

    So why is this man giving socialist propaganda?
  33. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 5:58 pm
    Here you go Hephaestus. My numbers were a tad off, but not much.


    It`s from Greg Mankiw`s blog. he is a professor of economics at Harvard.
  34. Profile photo of randomxnp
    randomxnp Male 30-39
    1293 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 5:59 pm
    I-See-You

    "You drive down the street and see a wal-mart and a McDonalds at every corner. While also seeing an empty shopping center where small businesses where once thriving."

    What relevance does that have to the issue? These are businesses (in the case of McD mostly small businesses) supplying consumer demand. In the case of Walmart increasing retail efficiency which is great for the economy - with its low prices especially beneficial to those with low income. There existence does not support anything in this idiotic propaganda piece.
  35. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:03 pm
    to expound on randomxnp`s point, most McDonald`s, are locally owned franchises, therefore they are considered small business.
  36. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:45 pm
    If you tax the rich too much you slow the flow of money in the market
    And how is that exactly? You people keep saying that but have you ever proved it?

    The video may be completely wrong, but I don`t see much of an argument against it here.

    AJ if that chart is correct, then your society is more segregated than I thought.

    Imagine for a moment that you make $10M/year. How are you possibly going to spend that? Money becomes meaningless to you. I don`t see how you wouldn`t be able to live the most luxurious, comfortable life one can live on a mere 2 million/year.

    From what I`ve seen, the rich don`t spend their money nearly as much as the other classes do for the simple reason that they don`t need to.
  37. Profile photo of Hephaestus
    Hephaestus Male 18-29
    35 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:04 pm
    Thanks auburnjunky... I`ll delve into it more when I`m not cooking in the kitchen on high heat (is that smoke I smell?).

    The text seems to be referring to the marginal tax rate. The chart seems to be showing what the effective rate would be, though I hope the data source is easy to get to, I want to see the data that composes that chart. Should I assume this is before tax deductions or credits, charitable donations or is it the end effective rate? Just wondering given how easy it is to monkey with numbers.

    The tax rate may be beside the point and the real question of interest for me is "what is a dollar worth" to those groups. Saying 39% of income is tax means different things to a 30K earner and a 370K+ earner.

    Side note, when I made 35K, I was supposedly in the top 50% bracket for earning according to the IRS website... think that was in 2009.

    Back to the kitchen **whoosh**
  38. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:27 pm
    Hephaestus: all I have to say is take a good look at the 2009 and 2010 government budgets, It`s all in there.
  39. Profile photo of Hephaestus
    Hephaestus Male 18-29
    35 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:35 pm
    CrakrJak
    I`m not terribly familiar with government databases and even when I am, they aren`t all as easy to look through.
    I`d still appreciate your source though, very interested to see it. Helps to be sure I`m looking at the same information as others.

    The only recent spending chart I`ve seen put military, healthcare and social security as an overwhelming amount of the spending (over 60%?). As much as I do try to keep sources of interesting data, I may have failed to capture that one. I can take a look though.
  40. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:47 pm
    All the numbers or percentages or tax cuts/increases do not translate into quality of life. It is all about what is done with the "product" that matters.

    Sure wal-mart or (insert fortune 500 company) is good for the economy and creates jobs, no problem there. With that extreme growth comes extreme power, again no problem there. The problem lies in what is done with that power.

    The agenda of big companies is the $ and not the quality of life for its workers.

    Our government is helping them.

    What is being done is screwing the average Joe for the benefit of mighty Bob in the hopes that Bob will one day turn around and help out Joe. (bailouts, loans, closing your eyes while you know there is going to be a bubble etc.)

    Don`t even know who the hell the guy in the post is or even if he`s accurate enough, but I do know that I`m witnessing more and more control by smaller and smaller groups.
  41. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:51 pm
    So you guys keep looking up those numbers and keep forgetting that the quality of life has kept dropping since your parents were kids. Sure you might, have a new gadget or shiny new truck, but 20-40 years ago you didn`t have to work as hard for it.
  42. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32786 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 8:14 pm
    MoveOn is a far-leftist, Obama-loving group. It`s a fact!
    Hey! Every single time FoxNews is on, the left ALL chant "Faux News is dumb!"

    His `points` got worse and worse. Also farther and farther LEFTIST. Coincidence? I think not.

    WHat crap, I hope the comments have already de-bunked this bunkum.
  43. Profile photo of keith2
    keith2 Male 30-39
    2588 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 8:18 pm
    Damn peasants always asking for livable wages.. how dare they.
  44. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15841 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 8:36 pm
    Of course the ONLY reason every centrally planned economy in the history of the world has failed is because they never had anybody as smart as Robert Reisssssssssshuh put in charge.
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 8:41 pm
    Hephaestus: I agree, US government budgets are so full of crap spending the bill is the size of an encyclopedia every year. That should be a telling clue as to just how bloated and wasteful our government really is.

    No one in their right mind would sign a contract for a house, car, or business or anything else with that many pages to it, because common sense would tell you that somewhere buried in the fine print is a way for the contractor to screw you over. And that is just what our government is doing to us every year.
  46. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3234 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 9:02 pm
    I disagree with raising minimum wages. Sure it`s nice to have but it discourages growth for smaller businesses and minimum wage jobs aren`t supposed to be "permanent" jobs. They are supposed to be for students, people who just need a job until they find something in their field etc. They`re not supposed to be careers.

    If you keep asking for higher and higher wages, businesses will hire less and less people, or even hire people illegally, or pay them under the table at a lower wage.

    Government needs to spend less on frivolous and failing programs, such as social security, but spend more on higher education opportunities to educate people so that they can get something better than a minimum wage job.
  47. Profile photo of Hephaestus
    Hephaestus Male 18-29
    35 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 9:16 pm
    @I-See-U:
    Personally, I`m not discounting the "unquantifiable" human element. And I don`t think anyone here should. It`s why I brought up 39% of 30k is VERY different than 39% of 370K. But I am interested in sources of "knowledge".

    @CrakrJak:
    While I don`t disagree about the nature of the paperwork or the potential to intentionally confuse, it`s a little beyond the point at the moment. I just wanted to see the link you were looking at to make the claim that half of the deficit is public spending. I assumed you had looked at it to make such a claim, so I was hoping you could provide the link and save everyone else the trouble of having to wade through the nonsensical links and bloated data.


    BTW, this was a similar link to what I mentioned before where 3 parts make up about 63% of the budget. I bet there are trimmings to be made in there.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 9:30 pm
    Hephaestus:



    It might be hard to see (the color key is kind of small), but medicare, medicaid, social security, welfare, and unemployment made up over 50% of last years budget.
  • Profile photo of Calithlin
    Calithlin Male 18-29
    40 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:32 am
    MoveOn.org at the end... no f`ing wonder. The middle class can`t borrow any more? Borrowing is what got us into this trouble!
  • Profile photo of Victory7
    Victory7 Male 18-29
    362 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:49 am
    So then, the solution is obvious. GET RID OF THE INCOME TAX AND DRASTICALLY REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
  • Profile photo of Hephaestus
    Hephaestus Male 18-29
    35 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:10 am
    @CrakrJak:
    Thanks. You`re right, it is a little hard to see, could you go ahead and just CSI that image for me? "Enhance" :-P

    Anyway, I found the previous years data on wiki and found that the items you call "Public Sector" spending hasn`t really changed between the two recent administrations. Although Medicaid and Department of Defense flipped their percentages. Tried to compare it to 1996 as well, but the layout and names are different. Looks like the department of defense swelled going from Clinton to Bush.

    It`s not all complete, but here is the link for those interested: Link


    Regardless, I think I-See-U is right. It`s about the quality of life and not the percentages alone. As a country, we should look out for each other; not horde the resources in
  • Profile photo of ChrisMunich
    ChrisMunich Male 18-29
    383 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:53 am
    Meh, just tax the sh*te out of everyone, that`ll let you pay off your debt! And then there`s lots of angry people with no money left to spend, meaning they are easy to control and oppress. Problem solved ;)
  • Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32786 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 10:30 am
    Lee Doren DEBUNKS REICH here.

    I mean really! Tax cuts have CAUSED the deficit to grow? fluff and nonsense! It`s already been proven that taking ALL THE MONEY (not just taxes) from the super-rich STILL wouldn`t plug the deficit! Reich is a communists hard-core nutjob.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 10:59 am
    Hephaestus: You will note that unemployment payments have swelled to more than is paid out for medicare now.

    Some people have been on unemployment nearly two years now.
  • Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:15 pm
    So many truths are made up :)
  • Profile photo of Hephaestus
    Hephaestus Male 18-29
    35 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 5:39 pm
    @CrakrJak:
    Yeah, I noticed that. Not terribly surprising given prolong and deep recessions.
    Don`t think many are interested in making that a long term slice of the pie.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 22, 2011 at 9:29 am
    Hephaestus: It`s been too long as it is now, If we were really serious about the unemployment problem we would end the insurance payments and people would get off their ass and find work.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    June 22, 2011 at 9:57 pm


    ...and in related news Obama blames the unemployment on ATM machines
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