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Date: 06/17/11 12:01 PM

100 Responses to Petition To Apply Affirmative Action To Basketball

  1. Profile photo of txtwister
    txtwister Male 30-39
    7 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 11:45 am
    Link: Petition To Apply Affirmative Action To Basketball - Applying Affirmative Action to sports teams vs. academics. Looks like we have a dicey controversy on our hands, I-A-B.
  2. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:17 pm
    Liberal agenda = owned.
  3. Profile photo of Hightech90
    Hightech90 Male 18-29
    72 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:18 pm
    Haha, liberal hypocrisy at its best, Ron Paul 2012
  4. Profile photo of IrishJesus
    IrishJesus Male 18-29
    483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:18 pm
    Yeah...I don`t really support affirmative action. Sorry.
  5. Profile photo of mastrmind
    mastrmind Male 18-29
    102 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:21 pm
    Hahaha.. that was great, and a vonderful point to why the current affirmative action system is horribly flawed.

  6. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Double standard much?
  7. Profile photo of Gauddith
    Gauddith Female 18-29
    231 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:36 pm
    You guys are all acting like this was some victory. You`re overlooking the fact that a lot of the people picked for these programs deserve to be picked based on testing scores but can`t afford it.
    It`s very conceded to think that that applies to a sport that you have to enjoy to play in the first place. Not only that but a sport you can play on your own free time. A major league team is not going to choose a player because of race, neither is a college team.
    Get off your liberals suck horse and understand that it really isn`t that liberal to let everyone have an equal chance to learn. Playing sports is important, but it is not nearly as important as getting an education for your future.
    School is not about skill it`s about education. FFS
  8. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:37 pm
    Hope none of them want to major in politics.

    I don`t support any system based on human judgement over professional judgement.

    If the "minorities" want to be equal, then they work hard and become equal, like all the rest of us do.
  9. Profile photo of jamesboxy
    jamesboxy Male 30-39
    233 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:40 pm
    wow! the stupidity in this video is so overwhelming.So these guys don`t know difference between sports and education.
    Aim of sports is to win or entertainment.Aim of education to raise the standard of life.
    why are they even comparing two totally different things.
  10. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:46 pm
    hypocrisy for political correctness!
  11. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 12:51 pm
    "Aim of sports is to win or entertainment.Aim of education to raise the standard of life."

    nope, wrong. The aim of sports is to better yourself in a physical manner. The aim of education is to better yourself in a mental manner.
  12. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    @Gauddith except no one`s saying there shouldn`t be grants/scholarships for underpriveledged people, only that there shouldn`t be a "quota" for how many people of each "race" are admitted to a university each year. Because people who have better grades can be declined admission over a "minority" person with lesser grades if it comes down to that.
  13. Profile photo of TuffGhost88
    TuffGhost88 Male 18-29
    371 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:06 pm
    Guess what conservatives...you can`t compare a nationwide social phenomenon (i.e. the cyclical, perpetual disenfranchisement of racial minorities within our ENTIRE SOCIETY) to the disenfranchisement of non-blacks on a SPORTS TEAM and hope to be taken seriously.
    Not to mention that the precision of physical skill varies WAY more among athletes than mental skill among scholars.

    use. your. f*cking. brains.
  14. Profile photo of jamesboxy
    jamesboxy Male 30-39
    233 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:10 pm
    @I-See-U
    they are not talking about sports in general but the sports team of a university which have about 20 something students. Rest of the university students just watch the basketball game for entertainment and don`t have any effect on their live whether basketball team win or loose.
    The education is for all the students of a university.
    So it doesn`t matter which how many minority/majority students are there in a university team, it doesn`t affect large number of peoples.On the other hand education raise the standard of living of all the student of university.
  15. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    I can`t believe that they are one second supporting affirmative action and denouncing this "petition". drating hypocrites.
  16. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:22 pm
    I`m slightly ambivalent about affirmative action. Ultimately, I think that people should be chosen for their abilities under any circumstance, but blacks in America have had generations of oppression, which usually prevented them from being properly educated. Schools in largely black regions are often the worst schools in the country. DC schools are a great example of this. The fact is, it is much easier for the average white person to get a good education and do well in school than it is for the average black person. Schooling is absolutely necessary in order to level the playing field for current and future generations, so the inequality in education creates a near-permanent underclass. When colleges accept a few extra underprivileged students, they are helping to level the playing field for underprivileged minorities.
  17. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:22 pm
    (cont)
    Now, there are certainly some negative side effects to this policy. White students who might have qualified to go to one school, might not be accepted and be forced to go to a worse school. That isn`t a tragedy for whites everywhere, but it is a tragedy for that individual, as the college you go to can potentially have a great deal of impact on your professional life. Affirmative action also creates resentment. It is essentially fighting racism with racism; if racism inspires resentment, it will inspire it regardless of the injured group. While racial equality may be improved through affirmative action, race relations are not. Ultimately, affirmative action is damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don`t.
  18. Profile photo of Winter_ICE_0
    Winter_ICE_0 Male 13-17
    976 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:24 pm
    Affirmative action is all around wrong.
  19. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:25 pm
    First of all, no matter who`s doing it, I really hate these "let`s go to a college campus and ask people who are walking around what they think about ___" because it doesn`t give them time to think about the argument and allows for the asker to manipulate the conversation in their favor, and it`s extremely easy for them to just cut out any person who gives a good answer.

    However, sports is about physical ability which is both something we can and can`t control depending on the person, but the goal of sports is to win against the other team (unless it`s just for fun, in which case obviously anyone should be allowed to play) therefor you must have people with the best physical ability for the whole team to win. Academics, on the other hand, can take even the least likely to succeed people and teach them so that they can succeed in life if they`re dedicated enough.
  20. Profile photo of rogue_knight
    rogue_knight Male 40-49
    868 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:25 pm
    Yeah-being liberal is great when its not affecting you directly. And what about al of those college scholarships only poor minorities can apply for? WHat if you are poor and not a minority- should you be excluded?
  21. Profile photo of CheesyQueso
    CheesyQueso Female 18-29
    2197 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:27 pm
    Everyone freaks out at affirmative action yet no one cares that legacy programs at universities have helped admit loads of underqualified white students and that throughout history there`s been "affirmative action" for white people just no one called it that. Also everyone overlooks the fact that affirmative action benefitted white women the most.
  22. Profile photo of Gauddith
    Gauddith Female 18-29
    231 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:27 pm
    @Inaria

    How long has the letter grade system actually been considered fare/correct?

    The fact that we still use this over some of the much better systems astounds me. It`s not about intelligence, it`s about grades. I`m not saying its fare to the people who get declined, I`m sure that there could be a better way. But at least it`s a start. I have cynical views on this too, I`m not going to go there because I was just astounded at how almost all the people posting before me honestly don`t know the difference between sports and schooling.
  23. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:35 pm
    (i.e. the cyclical, perpetual disenfranchisement of racial minorities within our ENTIRE SOCIETY)
    Last I knew, we have a black president.

    In other words, it`s not some "social phenomena" of the "White man bringing down the minorities," it`s the "minorities" doing it to themselves to elicit pity, and taking advantage of that pity to push BS agendas like Affirmative Action that lead to judgments based not on merit and other factors that they have to work for, but on factors that they have no control over and don`t have to put any effort into.
  24. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:39 pm
    And before anyone jumps, I`m against the idea of the under-qualified rich white boy getting accepted because of some "legacy" program too, because, again, it`s based on a factor that they had no control over and therefor don`t have to put any effort towards.
  25. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3148 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    Affirmative Action is good.

    Er, I should say Affirimative Action was good in the `60`s and throughout the `70`s, but I believe America as a society has evolved enough to not need Affirimative Action.

    Yeah, sure, there will be cases where someone will not hire someone else based on "race", religion or gender, but I believe that overall, it is not needed.

    Does anyone remember that episode of George Lopez where he gets hired at a big company just to fill the Latino quota? Where all the minorities were bullying the CEO or president, or whoever he was knowing that he wouldn`t fire them based on their "race"?
  26. Profile photo of XbigXmommaX
    XbigXmommaX Female 18-29
    474 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 1:56 pm
    i`m a member of a minority group and i oppose affirmative action. i don`t like having to play the race card every time i need money for school and as a student at a public college it`s extremely difficult to get any kind of financial aid solely based on academic merit.
  27. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:00 pm
    @Altaru: You are making a hasty generalization. The fact that the president is black does not mean that all blacks have the same opportunities.

    Some of the problems that blacks have in this country are due to their culture. It is often considered acceptable to live off of welfare. That removes a lot of the motivation to get an education and a job, causing generations of blacks to live on welfare, in conditions only a little above poverty.

    But to say that blacks are trying to elicit pity and imply that they just want easy money is short-sighted. If any group of people were provided with easy money, that group would get used to it and want the easy living to continue. Look at Greece. Greece is essentially bankrupt, so it cuts back on social programs and people riot over it. Greece is mostly caucasian.
  28. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:00 pm
    (cont)
    What I am getting at is that we should make it harder for people to live off of hand-outs, but what must happen for that to be viable is for people to have another way to make a living. If you cut back hand-outs and do away with privileges that make it easier for blacks to get an education, you are dooming quite a few people to live in abject poverty.

    I don`t think that whites are bringing down minorities, but they were and there are far-reaching consequences to that. Our ancestors screwed up big time and now we need to fix it.
  29. Profile photo of funnehkitteh
    funnehkitteh Male 18-29
    528 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:06 pm
    basketball wouldn`t be the same if it was half half.
    when do you see a 7 foot white guy who can slam dunk
    and still looks awesome doing it? black players ftw
  30. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:10 pm
    I don`t think that whites are bringing down minorities, but they were and there are far-reaching consequences to that. Our ancestors screwed up big time and now we need to fix it.
    Indeed, I see what you mean.

    *sigh*

    Hindsight is always 20/20 isn`t it?
  31. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:16 pm
    I love how ignorant so many people are on how little "affirmative action" there actually is any more. Almost all of it has been ruled unconstitutional, and, the bit that hasn`t makes good sense and has even been upheld by conservative courts, so, perhaps it`d be worthwhile (including for the idiot in this video) to learn what is actually happening re: "affirmative action".
  32. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:32 pm
    The issue of mandatory discrimination (I prefer to avoid the deceitful euphemism of "affirmative action") is almost always treated with misdirection, moving goalposts and general deceit.

    Consider, for example, how many people in this thread have already claimed that mandatory discrimination is about giving fair help to people at at disadvantage due to their socioeconomic class.

    Bullpoo. You`re advocating discrimination on the basis of sex and "race". Claiming otherwise is a lie to cover up what you`re advocating. It`s a cowardly position.

    If you actually wanted to advocate special treatment for people at at disadvantage due to their socioeconomic class, that`s what you`d be advocating.

    If you actually believed your own claims that is the same as discriminating against people for being the "wrong" sex or "race", then you`d have no objection to it.

    I call you liars.
  33. Profile photo of Oldfrt
    Oldfrt Male 50-59
    747 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:36 pm
    Down to brass tacks: does equality mean equal results, or does equality mean equal access to life`s resources (opportunity)? Different people do different things, so it is highly unlikely that equal results will ever come out a system that just provides equal opportunity. But ya know, I`m OK with that. Different cultures have different traditions, so only idiots would expect a flat distribution of all races and creeds across occupations, economic status, preferences and abilities. That`s life, deal with it.
  34. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    I-See-U
    Male, 18-29, Southern US
    60 Posts Friday, June 17, 2011 12:51:37 PM
    "Aim of sports is to win or entertainment.Aim of education to raise the standard of life."

    nope, wrong. The aim of sports is to better yourself in a physical manner. The aim of education is to better yourself in a mental manner.
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    You are obviously not a Division I athlete (or high school athlete in certain areas).
  35. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:54 pm
    @Angilion: If you are directing you post fully or partially at me, I`ll tell you that I am, in fact, advocating that people of lower socioeconomic status get aid. I do realize that not all black people are of lower socioeconomic status, but, on average, blacks have it worse than whites. I don`t think that there should be a racial gap in socioeconomic status. I think that one`s success should be based in one`s abilities, and I don`t think that there is a large gap in the capabilities of various races. Some races have a slight tendency to be more intelligent or more athletic, but there isn`t such a huge difference that it would cause a huge socioeconomic racial divide.

    I don`t think that there is a `right` or `wrong` sex, race, etc. to be. I think that people just happen to be born whatever they are, but that the only circumstances of birth that should impact one`s success are those having to do with natural talents.
  36. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 2:56 pm
    Don`t get me wrong, I completely admire what these guys are doing. Anyone who is legitimately getting upset by....
    a) What they are doing
    OR
    b) What people on a message board are saying

    have tiny dicks and you should go see someone about that.


    But I do think this is a fairer comparison.

    Should MATH TEAMS be required to apply affirmative action?
    Just because you don`t support affirmative action in one regard, it doesn`t mean you can`t still support affirmative action.
  37. Profile photo of RuralNinja
    RuralNinja Male 18-29
    519 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 3:01 pm
    And the hypocrisy of affirmative action is revealed.
  38. Profile photo of osirisascend
    osirisascend Male 40-49
    3039 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 3:12 pm
    Holy sh*t!!! PRIMETIMEKIN!!!

    Where the hell have YOU been?
  39. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 3:23 pm
    Holy sh*t!!! PRIMETIMEKIN!!!

    Where the hell have YOU been?
    Yeah, I thought the same thing when I saw he was back.

    I see, however, that you lost your mod status, Prime.

    Does that have to do with your long disappearance?
  40. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 3:24 pm
    I don`t think that there is a `right` or `wrong` sex, race, etc. to be. I think that people just happen to be born whatever they are, but that the only circumstances of birth that should impact one`s success are those having to do with natural talents.

    So why are you advocating discrimination based on sex and "race"?

    Lovely words are all very well, but you`re just demonstrating the deception that I wrote about.
  41. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5606 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 3:32 pm
    To me, it meant a lot to watch Spud Webb and Kenny Walker play in a game where 6`3 was supposed to be "short."

    I think it`d be more interesting and I may actually watch that sport.

    Go for it.
  42. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    @primetimekin

    "You are obviously not a Division I athlete (or high school athlete in certain areas)."


    since it looks like were making assumptions about each other, here is what I`m assuming of you.

    your obviously a wanna be jock. Your talking about "tiny dicks" so obviously you must have one, and you think you look cool in those glasses. (these are not facts just assumptions, don`t get your panties in a bunch I`m just returning the favor).

    By the way, what exactly does being a "high school athlete" have to do with it.
  43. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 3:52 pm
    @jamesboxy

    "Rest of the university students just watch the basketball game for entertainment and don`t have any effect on their live whether basketball team win or loose."

    You can also say, someone else getting an education has no effect on my life. The science fair, book club, and the spelling bee are "entertainment" and to some and a "game" to others, which win or lose still has no effect on my life.
  44. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 3:52 pm
    You know, I`m convinced the `civil rights` movement stopped being dedicated to addressing institutional injustices and "leveling the playing field" the moment MLK was assassinated. Since then, it`s gradually descended into a mere grab for special privileges on the part of minorities and even further into flaunting their immunity to otherwise mandatory social conventions based on race.

    Website reference - click.
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:00 pm
    Altaru: Last I knew, we have a black president.

    Yup, The time for lame excuses of racism against minorities is over. If a black man with the middle name Hussein can became president, then anything is possible for minorities in America.

    Character is much more important, and to quote Winston Wolf, "Just because you are a character, doesn`t mean you have character."
  46. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:06 pm
    whatever happened to `may the best man win?`
  47. Profile photo of Machida
    Machida Male 18-29
    24 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:06 pm
    This is pointless. America is pointless.
  48. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:08 pm
    Crakrjacks- 7 years ago I was told that a black man would be president before a woman. Does that give women a right to complain then?
  49. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:22 pm
    Affirmative action seems like it has done more harm than good. The whole debate, still going on proves that it has certainly increased the gap between black and white people in the US.

    The government here encourages to hire immigrants, but they are not obligated to hire certain people, just like that. If a colored person qualifies as well as other candidates, they may hire.

    Equality is a key word in this thing.
  50. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    TypicalJerk: Ask Sarah Palin that question, she was vilified and smeared worse than any VP candidate in recent history (and still is being smeared by those that can`t stand the idea of a strong conservative woman might be the first woman VP or President).
  51. Profile photo of Scuzoid
    Scuzoid Male 30-39
    1268 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:32 pm
    Every time I see one of these videos where some guy is trying to prove how dumb an idea/action is, I always hope he shows a "smart" person at the end where in this instance some random would`ve been "Oh HECK yeah I`ll sign that!" Showing nothing but the "dumb" is depressing.
  52. Profile photo of sounder
    sounder Male 40-49
    59 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:34 pm
    Machida is pointless
  53. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    How delightful! Watching them squirm when faced with reality! lolz@!
  54. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:48 pm
    Altaru
    Male, 18-29, Eastern US
    2562 Posts Friday, June 17, 2011 3:23:41 PM
    Holy sh*t!!! PRIMETIMEKIN!!!

    Where the hell have YOU been?

    Yeah, I thought the same thing when I saw he was back.

    I see, however, that you lost your mod status, Prime.

    Does that have to do with your long disappearance?
    +++++++++++++

    I didn`t want to be on IAB. So I left. Thus I was demodded.
  55. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 4:54 pm
    @I-See-U

    It means that
    "The aim of sports is to better yourself in a physical manner. "

    is complete bullpoo. In South Florida (and i`m pretty sure places like Texas too), there could be bets as high as $250,000 on a high school game. I`ve seen security have to follow football players around if they throw too many INTs the previous game. It`s entertainment, way of life, etc. Not just some EC you do on your spare time.

    Sure, North Dakota football might be a way to better yourself physically, but in certain areas its a path to a better future.

    You would notice that if you didnt have a tiny dick ;).
  56. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:02 pm
    Meh. I, personally, wouldn`t have voted for her and Mac anyway. We are all screwed if the democrats run the same pr bs like they did last run. I bet they push Mrs. Clinton up front if Obama doesn`t get that public limelight back to where it was with that change garbage.
  57. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:16 pm
    Did...

    Did Crakr just agree with something I said?

    Dear god... The end of days is upon us!
  58. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:24 pm
    @Angilion: First, I don`t think that women are in the same predicament. I am a woman and I have never felt discriminated against academically, professionally, or in any other capacity that matters. I don`t think there is any reason to use affirmative action to help women because women have already achieved equality.

    On the other hand, I grew up in an area that is largely populated by blacks. The first couple of schools I went to were something like 80% black and they were terrible schools. The things I learned in while I was in elementary school, I mostly learned from my parents, because my school wasn`t teaching. The neighboring counties had better schools and had much higher populations of whites. I also did some volunteer work at an Anacostia school (that`s in DC) which was close to 100% black and had 10% literacy. You can drive fifteen minutes away and find a mostly white school with much better testing scores and literacy.
  59. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:25 pm
    (cont)

    When I finally got into a good school in high school, I was still in a mostly black county, but the population of the school was only 50% black because the vast majority of students that made it into the magnet program were white or asian. My experiences are not unusual. Areas with high concentrations of blacks in them typically have terrible schools. If you think that doesn`t affect the success of those students later in life, I don`t know what kind of world you think we live in.

    I don`t think that affirmative action is a perfect solution, but I think that something does have to be done because, if something isn`t done to help blacks get better access to education, they will become a permanent underclass in society. I realize that it isn`t fair to take away from others while trying to help blacks improve their lot, but it`s not fair that they had to endure discriminatory practices for generations.
  60. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:36 pm
    @primetimekin

    So, your saying that the athletes in your part of the ghetto don`t practice or workout to better themselves physically? How exactly does that work?

    Just because running for senate or fighting for a open position at fortune 500 company are not fun to watch (or entertaining), it doesn`t mean that they are not a competition like the super bowl or the NBA championship.

    Sports just happen to be fun to watch. While the spelling bee championships are not. One is physical, one is mental, they are both a competition. Just like getting ahead in life.
  61. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:40 pm
    primetimekin

    either way you have missed the whole point of this post. whether you agree with affirmative action or not.
  62. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:42 pm
    Just because they get stronger physically, it doesn`t mean that the point is to get stronger physically.

    Big difference
  63. Profile photo of nospoons
    nospoons Male 18-29
    184 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:43 pm
    The exact same arguments can be made for corporations that have gender equality hiring policies. On the surface it sounds like a nice, politically correct idea to hire roughly 50% males and 50% females - but when you consider 1. that in many instances the number of female candidates applying is far less than male candidates. and 2. that women aren`t as intelligent. its really quite clear cut that its a bad policy driven by the need to conform to political correctness.
  64. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:46 pm
    but it`s not fair that they had to endure discriminatory practices for generations.
    I`m pretty sure Asian-Americans faced some serious discrimination for a long while, what with, you know, being used and abused as cheap laborers (kind of like Mexicans now), being effectively banned from immigrating for a while, being put in concentration camps, etc.

    The difference between the two comes from two factors:

    A) The cultural difference. Not trying to be racist, but it`s just obvious when you look at the culture that Asians and blacks have different... "Work-ethic" to put it politely.

    B) The way the US pretty much caters to blacks hand-and-foot to appease them over something that ended generations ago, letting them become complacent and accepting of lower standards like you said.

    Honestly, I think they need the harsh wake-up call.
  65. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 5:56 pm
    2. that women aren`t as intelligent.
    That, unfortunately, is half of what`s holding back any attempts to end programs like this.

    Comments like this are not only patently false, generalizing and inappropriate, they associate the entire movement with sexism (when it`s coming from people like nospoons, it`s probably intentional at that), which is completely the wrong move to pull when speaking about a touchy subject like this in the first place.

    nospoons, I hope you don`t try for politics. Subtlety is a necessary trait you obviously lack.
  66. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 6:05 pm
    "Just because they get stronger physically, it doesn`t mean that the point is to get stronger physically."

    uuummmm... nevermind.
  67. Profile photo of GasMaskKid
    GasMaskKid Male 18-29
    694 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 6:15 pm
    Of course they edit out the parts where the students say why the two scenarios aren`t analogous.
  68. Profile photo of snack1928
    snack1928 Male 18-29
    35 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 6:32 pm
    i like this video. mainly i think affirmative action is a load of crap and it is contradictory: lets take from white people and give to minorities, that will help end racism. idiotic
  69. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 6:35 pm
    I`m sorta conflicted about affirmative action. In principle I`m firmly opposed to it. But in practice, well, I know discrimination and structural racism are still problems so it may be necessary. But then again Asians don`t get the same kind of preferential treatment and they are a tremendously successful group. It`s getting harder and harder to separate what is a result of racism that should be rectified through policy intervention and what is a result of culture which policy intervention will likely make worse. And the same affirmative action mentality leads to racial gerrymandering which leads to people like Rangle being elected despite his blatant corruption. On the whole though I tend towards the Shelby Steele view while recognizing its a complicated issue with no easy answers. People against have to stop pretending that affirmative action doesn`t come with a cost, some whites will be screwed. what we should be asking is if that cost confers a large enough social benefit.
  70. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 6:42 pm
    @Altaru: I won`t deny that you may be right. I do think that sometimes the `sink or swim` method is the most effective. I`m hesitant to support it in this instance because the repercussions if it fails could be pretty awful. But I will concede that it might be the best way to overcome the crappy situation we`ve inherited.
  71. Profile photo of grapehead
    grapehead Male 18-29
    408 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 6:54 pm
    a white guy just won the nba championship
  72. Profile photo of SilverThread
    SilverThread Male 30-39
    3435 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 8:22 pm
    I don`t agree with Affirmative Action Period. This circumstance defines the justification behind my logic.

    The mistake in this video had to do with asking people that are essentially still children to think critically about something they have been conditioned to just accept as the status quo.
  73. Profile photo of aquaman1227
    aquaman1227 Male 18-29
    683 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 9:20 pm
    @SilverThread

    By your statement, there is a child asking the questions...
  74. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 9:25 pm
    green_batman:

    OK, so you`re not advocating sexism. You`re still advocating racism and you`re still claiming it`s something else. So you`re still being deceitful, just on not as many criteria as others.

    For example:

    The first couple of schools I went to were something like 80% black and they were terrible schools.

    Now tell me why you think the other 20% of pupils don`t matter.

    I`d also like you to explain how Obama`s daughters are disadvantaged compared to children who grew up with drug addict parents in squalor and violence but whose skin is too pale for your standards. Why do you think those children deserve to be discriminated against?

    Have some integrity and stand behind your racism honestly rather than trying to pretend it`s something else.
  75. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 9:30 pm
    but I think that something does have to be done

    Ah, the good old "something must be done, this is something, therefore we`ll do it".

    I don`t see what`s so wrong with giving extra help to people who have been disadvantaged by the circumstances of their childhood.

    I do see what`s wrong with discriminating against people solely because of their "race".

    So my preferred "something" would be the former rather than the latter.
  76. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 9:38 pm
    1. that in many instances the number of female candidates applying is far less than male candidates.

    That`s a fair point.

    and 2. that women aren`t as intelligent.

    And that`s bigoted babble. It`s like saying that no international company should hire Australians because Australians are alcoholics without any work ethic and they`re uncivilised. It`s just not worth the extra cost of training them to use indoor toilets and hiring extra staff to cover when they can`t be bothered to come in because they`re drunk and having a barbeque.
  77. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 10:00 pm
    their example HAS NOTHING to do with reality.

    let me explain.

    Affrimitive action recongizes and axknowledges that racial minorities that ARE EQUALLY or MORE QUALIFIED than whites ARE STILL NOT HIRED at a rate consist with what you would expect to see in a fair and equal market place.

    one study proved this quite well. 40K resumes with white names were sent out to emplyers, another 40K with ethnic sounding names were sent out to emplyers are well. THEY WERE THE SAME RESUME. 80% of the call backs were for the white sounding names...

    now whites have argued "well that was because the employers were afraid to try and pronounce the names of the ethnic resumes" ...really???? That is proof enough white people want nothing to do with minorities.

    in terms of basketball, the players that ARE better will get the positions. The black players are better and thus get the spot on the team.

    again, this little college kids example is wr
  78. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 10:04 pm
    whites control and own just about everything and it amaezes me how they still feel like they are the ones being oppressed and subjugated when in fact there is not a white person alive that even has a tiny clue what racial discrimination looks or feels like in personal terms.


    here think about this for a second.

    in 1995 there were NO forutne 500 companies headed by a non-white minority.

    in 2002 there were 2...

    there are about 6 now.

    white people, STFU and stop bitching. you have every advantage you could ask for in the US just by being white.


  79. Profile photo of Oldfrt
    Oldfrt Male 50-59
    747 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 10:48 pm
    "white people, STFU and stop bitching. you have every advantage you could ask for in the US just by being white."

    Yet there are still significantly more non-Hispanic white people in poverty than black people. Yes, white people have it made. 2007-2008 statistics here. I don`t doubt racial discrimination exists. But given all the corporate equal opportunity training I`ve been to, the hiring I`ve done and HR procedures at most companies, I`ve seen more evidence that it`s not nearly as bad as it used to be, and that it is not likely a major problem in corporate America. If you can`t give me more than anecdotal evidence that I`m wrong, go away.
  80. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 11:02 pm
    I see what this video is trying to do. They`re trying to use the basketball scenario as a roundabout way of saying "the white people are more qualified for these jobs, therefore affirmative action = dumb."

    I wouldn`t say that, exactly. There is an aspect of racism out there that makes it hard for minorities to get a leg up. My buddy was telling me about a boss he has that refuses to hire any black workers. A black person brought in a resume, and his boss threw it in the trash the second the person left.

    That being said, I don`t think that affirmative action is the best solution. The only true solution is to subdue or eradicate racism itself. Policies like affirmative action only emphasize the differences between us and make people pay more attention to race. Which hurts us in the end.

    @oldfrt-there are only more impoverished whites because they make up a larger portion of the population. If you look at the percentage, it`s reversed.

  81. Profile photo of venice08
    venice08 Male 18-29
    108 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 11:21 pm
    Interesting video. At it`s base it shows the hypocrisy of AA (both)

    All this blather below my comment though is boring.
  82. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2508 posts
    June 17, 2011 at 11:33 pm
    "I see what this video is trying to do. They`re trying to use the basketball scenario as a roundabout way of saying "the white people are more qualified for these jobs, therefore affirmative action = dumb.""

    If that`s what you got from the video, then you`re an idiot.

    They aren`t saying that white people are better at their jobs. They are saying that choosing someone for a job should have nothing to do with race (or even gender). They are saying that to get the best results, a company should be allowed to chose a person solely based on their skills and qualifications and that race should not be taken into consideration one way or another.
  83. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 12:08 am
    "If that`s what you got from the video, then you`re an idiot."

    Lol, commence flaming strangers. A sure sign of intelligence.

    Let me rephrase it so it makes a little more sense for you. What they`re saying is "hey, sign this petition to get more white people on the basketball team, even though they aren`t as good!" while insisting "but, you`re in favor of affirmative action, right?"

    This suggests that they feel affirmative action is disrupting a natural order of things wherein the more qualified people are getting the jobs. That, without affirmative action, the job market would be more fair.

    Which is all well and good, so long as you`re working under the pretense that racism doesn`t exist. The only problem: it does. So you can`t make a statement like that without assuming that all of these white people getting picked for jobs are better than the black people who don`t get them. (rather than a result of racism)

    P.
  84. Profile photo of DrProfessor
    DrProfessor Male 18-29
    3894 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 12:10 am
    continuation:

    P.S. - F*ck off.

    P.P.S. - If you would have read the rest of my comment, you would have noticed that I`m not in favor of affirmative action, I just think these guys are twats.
  85. Profile photo of Burton_Ian
    Burton_Ian Male 18-29
    817 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 5:36 am
    Nobody in this video truly understands what affirmative action really is or why it is in place.

    In today`s society, racism isn`t the primarily personal bigotry of pre-civil rights reform; instead it is structural racism, or racism "without racist". Statistically minorities have higher unemployment, lower income, and access to quality education, so affirmative action is meant to even the social and structural disadvantages out.

    Whether it works or not is up for debate, but this video is based on the hidden assumption that there is no disadvantage for white persons or black persons.
  86. Profile photo of greguba1
    greguba1 Male 40-49
    21 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 6:08 am
    example a: the student body at the school is 76% white, 6% black, and 18% other. AA says you must have all minorities at 15% each. The solution according to AA, despite GPA`s is to lower the white total to 70%, the other total to 15% and raise the black total to 15%. you say this is fair. example b: The basketball team is 90% black 10% other. following your AA guidelines, dispite actual talent the black total should be reduced to 85% and the other raised to 15% However you say no this isnt fair, you cry raceism. I cant understand your reasoning. You want equality in everything except sports. why?
  87. Profile photo of Radic393
    Radic393 Male 18-29
    136 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 8:10 am
    I do not agree with affirmative action, however in this case i`d like to argue for it since I think I understand how those who were in support of it feel.

    College is no longer something that makes you stand out above your peers, its the new standard of education and everyone deserves access too it.

    Basketball on the other hand is a competitive sport, which has play it at the professional level very few people. Not everyone has the right to play basketball professionally.

    That sums up why his argument is not really a very good one.
  88. Profile photo of Flashpacker
    Flashpacker Male 18-29
    672 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 8:16 am
    omg the chick in the yellow shirt was so cute:3
  89. Profile photo of headseed
    headseed Male 70 & Over
    370 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 8:36 am
    really really stupid. such a flawed argument.
  90. Profile photo of incubus_inc
    incubus_inc Male 18-29
    976 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 8:50 am
    Didn`t this guy see "White Men Can`t Jump"???
  91. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 8:58 am
    "really really stupid. such a flawed argument."

    it really isn`t.

    schools and jobs let people who are under qualified attend and work for them to increase diversity; however, athletics do not do this. What is the difference? The whole point of affirmative action is to increase diversity. Why not increase it in sports as well?
  92. Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 10:46 am
    @radic393"I do not agree with affirmative action, however in this case i`d like to argue for it since I think I understand how those who were in support of it feel.

    College is no longer something that makes you stand out above your peers, its the new standard of education and everyone deserves access too it.

    Basketball on the other hand is a competitive sport, which has play it at the professional level very few people. Not everyone has the right to play basketball professionally.

    That sums up why his argument is not really a very good one. "
    you are right, your argument isn`t a good one, glad you realized it, but wish you had kept it to yourself.
    also, i don`t think you understand the meaning of rights, as everyone has the "right" to play professional basketball, it`s the physical ability and skill that most people lack.
  93. Profile photo of Zoop
    Zoop Male 18-29
    5 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 10:51 am
    The flaw in the argument is that he is saying basketball and school are the same thing.

    Basketball is a sport where skill is the primary and dominating factor.

    If skill was the primary and dominating factor in schools we would not have the problems that are facing our education today. For children money is a big concern for the quality of education a child gets. Being equal in education is giving children the full benefit of an education before they enter the real world. The real world is brutal, like basketball, and you need to put up or shut up. But education should always be equal to make sure everyone gets an EQUAL chance.

    Just because you ask random students this difficult question on the spot does not mean you are making a point. One student was smart enough to say `i do not feel comfortable answering this question on camera` because he knew how weird the whole situation was. Basketball is a game. Education is life.
  94. Profile photo of EntrE
    EntrE Male 18-29
    535 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 11:00 am
    bunch of hypocrites
  95. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 2:25 pm
    meh...
  96. Profile photo of primetimekin
    primetimekin Male 18-29
    7936 posts
    June 18, 2011 at 4:21 pm
    I think everyone here should read this reddit comment: http://tinyurl.com/6dtllme

    I think it`ll give everyone a better perspective
  97. Profile photo of HumboldtPie
    HumboldtPie Male 18-29
    311 posts
    June 19, 2011 at 7:05 pm
    I agree with the argument for schooling, but in the work place affirmative action just doesn`t make sense. People will always say they stand behind it, but if you were in a situation where your life depended on a surgeon, for instance, you`d probably drop that idea pretty quick and just opt for the best, rather than one that got the job because there was a quota that needed to be filled.
  98. Profile photo of Keyh
    Keyh Male 18-29
    226 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 5:52 am
    "If skill was the primary and dominating factor in schools we would not have the problems that are facing our education today. For children money is a big concern for the quality of education a child gets. Being equal in education is giving children the full benefit of an education before they enter the real world. The real world is brutal, like basketball, and you need to put up or shut up. But education should always be equal to make sure everyone gets an EQUAL chance. "

    If everyone has an equal chance, then it`s not fair. What if the school is taking in 50 new applicants, but there`s a test for entry, and I score 50th on the test, but don`t get in because they didn`t meet their affirmative action quota? How is that fair to me?

    So, now I`m in a worse shape, because I`m not African American. But yeah, it`s fair as long as it`s not a minority affected poorly.

    As for you implying everything should be affordable to everyone, that would lower the educ
  99. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 11:31 am
    I have agree with his point. There are a lot of people who support things without ever thinking about why or what they are supporting. Taking the best players off in favour of worse players, is no different than skipping over the best workers or best students for the same reason. You have to not think at all about it in order to disagree.
  100. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 11:34 am
    Wait a tick, did she just say "I agree with it for professionals but in competitive sports"? Does she not know they are called "Professional Athletes".

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