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Date: 06/20/11 06:35 PM

135 Responses to Man Turns To Crime For Prison Health Care

  1. Profile photo of lucu
    lucu Female 18-29
    176 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:37 pm
    Link: Man Turns To Crime For Prison Health Care - Kinda sad, but health care in America still sucks. Listen to how he got himself arrested...
  2. Profile photo of Farsidedown
    Farsidedown Male 18-29
    421 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:48 pm
    Eh, he`s giving up several rights (like the right to vote) by becoming a convicted felon, but I don`t blame him.
  3. Profile photo of wyrwich
    wyrwich Male 18-29
    91 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:48 pm
    AMERICA drat YEAH
  4. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:49 pm
    Can`t blame him at all. More power to him. Seriously, we have people dying in the streets living homeless while at the same time if they commit a crime they get health care, the hots and a cot. Seriously, I can see myself doing the same out of desperation.
  5. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:51 pm
    Far more than all of your petty left vs right squabbling over what is wrong with your economy, this story gives a much clearer and potent message.

    Although 1 data point does not create a statistic. When people start doing this in numbers, then you get worried.
  6. Profile photo of CaptainPabst
    CaptainPabst Male 18-29
    1250 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:54 pm
    "Growth of some sort on his chest, two ruptured discs and a problem with his left foot."

    Wtf is wrong with his nose then?
  7. Profile photo of username3415
    username3415 Male 18-29
    362 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:57 pm
    Why didn`t he just shoot himself?
  8. Profile photo of MechaWolf
    MechaWolf Male 18-29
    315 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 6:58 pm
    Sad.
  9. Profile photo of bombaytech
    bombaytech Male 18-29
    151 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:02 pm
    Yeah I would probably rather be in prison than homeless and dying of some curable disease too.
  10. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:04 pm
    $1 robbery probably won`t get him a 3 year sentence, especially if the judge finds out he did it for healthcare. The problem is, they`ll put him on probation, but he`ll do something even more extreme if he is desperate.

    and no, this isn`t a flaw in the system, this is a flaw in humans. instead of working to get healthcare (working =/= at a job, but rather looking for a job that has benefits), he wants the easy way out. in this country, if he REALLY wanted the growth on his chest looked at w/o insurance, you do like most people w/o insurance, visit the ER after 9pm. yes, he would go into debt but they cannot garnish wages or convict you for medical debt
  11. Profile photo of Tubby12370
    Tubby12370 Male 18-29
    1440 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:06 pm
    Not a bad idea if your broke, have no health insurance, and no place to live, I guess.
  12. Profile photo of bombaytech
    bombaytech Male 18-29
    151 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:09 pm
    and no, this isn`t a flaw in the system, this is a flaw in humans. instead of working to get healthcare (working =/= at a job, but rather looking for a job that has benefits), he wants the easy way out. in this country, if he REALLY wanted the growth on his chest looked at w/o insurance, you do like most people w/o insurance, visit the ER after 9pm. yes, he would go into debt but they cannot garnish wages or convict you for medical debt

    They do not have to treat you for non-emergent conditions at the ER, or didn`t you know that? Even if it`s fine today and will kill you tommorow, they don`t have to treat you till tommorow. In prison, the gov is accountable to you since you can`t help yourself so they have to maintain your good health as best as is reasonable.
  13. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:11 pm
    Wow - amazing. I`m actually rather impressed with this scheme. Luckily at my age I can still join the Military.
  14. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:29 pm
    IkeRay, I don`t know if you heard, but the guy has RUPTURED DISCS and a messed up foot. Probably not too many skills other than something physical, which, with ruptured discs, he`s not going to be able to perform. His savings are done. What kind of job with benefits do you expect him to just go out and get?! Take that silver spoon out of your drating ears and actually listen to the guy`s situation. He didn`t just decide, "Meh, I don`t want to work. Guess I`ll rob a bank." Damn, man!
  15. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:33 pm
    Do they not have a free clinic(s) where he lives ?

    I`ve been homeless before and was always able to get free or low cost health care where I live.
  16. Profile photo of CheesyQueso
    CheesyQueso Female 18-29
    2197 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:41 pm
    I`ve never been to a free clinic so I wouldn`t know but would they even have the tools to fix his ruptured discs, cure the growth, and fix his foot?
  17. Profile photo of slipwax
    slipwax Male 18-29
    168 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:47 pm
    psh, if i was gonna rob a bank for health care, I`d try to go big. Either come out rich, or in jail with my benefits...
  18. Profile photo of Rawrg
    Rawrg Male 18-29
    934 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 7:48 pm
    I would get all up on his case if this were 10 years ago where just about anyone could find a job with benefits, however now it`s incredibly difficult to find a full time job if you aren`t in a niche field.

    All the big companies that hire entry level positions are hiring mostly part time so they can cut hours and benefits. It`s a way to counter the lower profits they`ve felt in this recession.

    The problem is that our government can`t seem to agree how to solve this problem, be it raising taxes, lowering spending, or *gasp* both. They also can`t seem to nut up and start regulating the the medical industry where the costs have been clearly found to be mostly administrative bloat and overpriced equipment and pharmaceuticals due to patents. Yes, some of this cost is from people abusing ER rooms and treating them like their own personal physician without paying a dime, but that`s mostly a symptom of medical care being too expensive in the first place.
  19. Profile photo of freddyferret
    freddyferret Male 40-49
    11742 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 8:16 pm
    Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. It`s sad that it came to that, but the country is so screwed up that he was out of options. I have friends who are struggling with medical conditions and can`t get a decent full time job to get the care they need.
  20. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 8:23 pm
    "Take that silver spoon out of your drating ears"

    learn the idioms, or don`t try to use them. greeters at walmart get the same benefits as anyone, and though its not a great job, its not a labor intensive job. and there are plenty of places that higher greeters (including that bank he `robbed`). there are also plenty of places that have cheap or free care for the poor and homeless as crakrjack pointed out.

    as for the hospital, the hospital won`t turn away people at night w/o insurance. though they may not HAVE to take care of them, they will; you may have to wait hours on end, but you will be taken care of if you desperately wanted to be fixed.

    yes, this is him giving up, there are plenty of ways to get help if you really want it
  21. Profile photo of Kaagan
    Kaagan Male 18-29
    1596 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 8:46 pm
    uh.. there are cheap/ sometimes free clinics for ppl without health care or money.
  22. Profile photo of Kaagan
    Kaagan Male 18-29
    1596 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 8:47 pm
    if he had trouble getting a job before...
  23. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 9:22 pm
    CheesyQueso: Even if the free clinics don`t have the equipment on sight to do the tests, the clinic Dr.s write scripts for patients to go to participating hospitals that can.
  24. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 9:46 pm
    Sort of ironic that he "robbed" a Canadian bank branch.
  25. Profile photo of lytle_lytle
    lytle_lytle Male 18-29
    208 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 10:21 pm
    I was all for him with the crappy health care and all, until he said "I have a condo on the beach". Screw him at this point. Hope he gets 20
  26. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 10:23 pm
    You know there`s something wrong with your Healthcare system when...

    Not trolling, but recently I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to move my family to anywhere in the world. I chose Canada over the US for very good reasons. I love America, don`t get me wrong, but, yeah.

    I`ll have Canada, thanks.
  27. Profile photo of FemBot
    FemBot Female 18-29
    262 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 10:38 pm
    @IkeRay- My boyfriend has a slipped disk from an old injury. In the middle of the night he fell and his back was hurting him so greatly, he opted to go to the hospital at night. They gave him an ambulance ride to the hospital, x-rayed his back, the first doctor said that it looked pretty bad, very inflamed, and that a prescription painkiller was in order. Then a nurse came in so that he could fill out his medical form with his insurance information. He had none to give. Then a second doctor came in, said that his x-rays looked fine and that he could go home. He had no car at the time, so he had to walk home, with a slipped disk, 11 miles back to his house, he was lucky it wasn`t further. So, your argument is invalid.
  28. Profile photo of ScottSerious
    ScottSerious Male 18-29
    5316 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 11:02 pm
    no health insurance, but a condo on the beach? what an idiot.
  29. Profile photo of gbrzeatetee
    gbrzeatetee Male 30-39
    174 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 11:19 pm
    I agree with the jail doctor, he is manipulating the system. That should be made illegal! (el oh el)
  30. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 11:20 pm
    Nothing wrong with American system of healthcare now is there..... unlike those of us with socialised healthcare- none of you lot suffer. Nope- socialised healthcare is so obviously a bad idea....
  31. Profile photo of Draculya
    Draculya Male 40-49
    14544 posts
    June 20, 2011 at 11:25 pm
    I heard about this or a similar guy a few years ago. I think he had cancer and couldn`t afford the treatment. The idea was to rob a bank, because it is a federal crime and federal corrections has the best funded healthcare.
  32. Profile photo of xCYBERDYNEx
    xCYBERDYNEx Male 18-29
    4903 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:03 am
    @madduck/ and what country are you from? Besides the continent of Europe.
  33. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:08 am
    @lytle_lytle

    @ScottSerious

    He may mean he has a condo lined up...as in, someone has offered one to him perhaps? Or he can rent one once he`s able to collect on social security.

    Also, can anyone translate what he said about the beach just after that? It sounded like "I`ve spoken to the ruler". I couldn`t make sense of that bit.
  34. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:10 am
    @CrakrJak

    "Do they not have a free clinic(s) where he lives?"

    Perhaps they do not.

    He sounds reasonably sane and logical, so you would imagine he`s tried and exhausted that option. Of course, you never know.
  35. Profile photo of CacaConPelos
    CacaConPelos Male 18-29
    36 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:22 am
    play on playa
  36. Profile photo of Frankii
    Frankii Female 18-29
    437 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:23 am
    Gotta love the NHS :D
  37. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:19 am
    Hopefully this sparks some good debate in the ol` U.S of A. Why you run an elitist health system is beyond me. We fight to keep our NHS almost annually and I think it`s one of the things that this country can be truly proud of. How we choose to treat the old, the poor, and the infirm is a massive mark of character.
  38. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:32 am
    "can anyone translate what he said about the beach just after that? It sounded like "I`ve spoken to the ruler"."

    ruler = realtor

    @fembot - one anecdotal case does not invalidate an argument
  39. Profile photo of Mo73
    Mo73 Male 30-39
    322 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:49 am
    health care is awesome here..its the ins companys that suck..but if you have good ins..like i do...then our health care owns...also..a million other ways to get health care here..even without ins..this guy is just a tool..
  40. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:09 am
    @Mo73 - I`m not doubting the quality of care in USA. I`m sure if you can get it, it`s outstanding. I`m just suggesting that it would be better to treat all citizens equally when it comes to healthcare, regardless of whether they can afford good insurance. I don`t know what other ways this guy could have gone about getting his `chest growth` seen to, but as with most of us men - he probably should have got it looked at YEARS ago!
  41. Profile photo of Coolhandluke
    Coolhandluke Male 18-29
    95 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:22 am
    Here`s the problem with socializing healthcare:

    Socialized Healthcare: "Hmm, should I be a doctor, or a trashman when I grow up? I guess I`ll be a doctor since I don`t want to be hauling trash. Not like I`ll get paid much more though"

    Capitalism Healthcare: "I want to be a doctor when I grow up so I can make the big bucks! However, that means I`ll have to work my butt off in school and get good grades in Chemistry and Biology so I can get into medical school where I`ll have to study my butt off some more!"

    Ever wonder why Italian doctors suck in comparison to American doctors? Ecco, la ragione.
  42. Profile photo of Coolhandluke
    Coolhandluke Male 18-29
    95 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:25 am
    I love how european posters are always dissing the american health system, but you have your own problems with tons of eastern immigrants coming into France and Germany to mooch off of the free healthcare. All Doctors are not created equally. There is a reason that American doctors are the best, and it`s because we are motivated by greed. European doctors for the most part are not motivated, from what I`ve seen.
  43. Profile photo of Coolhandluke
    Coolhandluke Male 18-29
    95 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:29 am
    It`s a heated debate, but I`m not so sure Canada or Europe`s route is the best one, either.
  44. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:40 am
    All Doctors are not created equally. There is a reason that American doctors are the best

    Really?
  45. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:57 am
    @IkeRay

    "ruler = realtor"

    Ah, thanks!

    That suggests, then, that he DOESN`T actually have the condo now; he says "I have a condo" meaning he`s got one lined up, or planned.
  46. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:59 am
    @Coolhandluke

    "Socialized Healthcare: "Hmm, should I be a doctor, or a trashman when I grow up? I guess I`ll be a doctor since I don`t want to be hauling trash. Not like I`ll get paid much more though""

    Funny, maybe I`m naive: I thought people become doctors because they want to HEAL PEOPLE.

    I`m not sure I`d want to be treated by someone who just say me as a walking credit card.
  47. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:02 am
    @Coolhandluke

    Incidentally, the quality of the doctors is not the only important factor: the number of them, and the ease of access to them, is also important.

    Doctor House himself isn`t going to be of much use if he`s the ONLY doctor serving 300 million people, or if nobody can afford him.

    Americans often say they have the best healthcare...that may be true, FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT.

    Americans often say they have shorter waiting times...that may be true: it`s amazing how short a line you can get WHEN MILLIONS CAN`T AFFORD TO EVEN BE IN THE LINE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    Count in the people you AREN`T treating, as well as those that you are, and your healthcare system starts to show some pretty poor numbers.
  48. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:07 am
    @Coolhandluke

    "I`m not so sure Canada or Europe`s route is the best one, either."

    Europe is not one homogenous whole. There are a huge number of countries here, each with their own different healthcare systems.
  49. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:10 am
    Funny, maybe I`m naive: I thought people become doctors because they want to HEAL PEOPLE.

    It`s not as if Doctors in the UK are paid in chicken feed though either.
  50. Profile photo of esmifra
    esmifra Male 18-29
    34 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:32 am
    @Coolhandluke
    "Socialized Healthcare: "Hmm, should I be a doctor, or a trashman when I grow up? I guess I`ll be a doctor since I don`t want to be hauling trash. Not like I`ll get paid much more though""


    You know nothing about a NHC. You would seem smarter if you just stayed "silent".

    In Europe, and in my country we believe that the right to health is a given since birth.
    Although it is costly its actually cheaper than your healthcare system.
    Our doctors are basically rich and med schools are the hardest to get in. Doctors are also well paid right after the university and live as kings plus are well seen by the community.

    The last time I checked doctors in America without connections have to work like slaves for around 10 years before becoming filthy rich..

    And for those that talk about quality of service, there is a reason why in Europe we live longer and in better health. There is also a reason why some
  51. Profile photo of BBJellyFish
    BBJellyFish Male 18-29
    549 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:41 am
    They`re accusing him of manipulating the system! HAH! Tell them to go talk to all the little lawyers and judges, and all those drating politicians! Cause not only do they manipulate the system, they corrupt it!
  52. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3441 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:42 am
    Theft of services?
  53. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:43 am
    @Coolhandluke - I do hope you were attempting to troll, as that was one of the weakest arguments I`ve heard in a LONG time. You come across as spoiled, inexperienced, xenophobic, and almost fascist. Do any other Americans have a good argument against free healthcare for all?
  54. Profile photo of liljesus9
    liljesus9 Male 18-29
    21 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:44 am
    This happened 30 minutes from my house. Neat.
  55. Profile photo of MightyPeanut
    MightyPeanut Male 30-39
    411 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 5:27 am
    Kudos to him for finding a loop hole in a corrupt system...that robbery may have saved his life.
  56. Profile photo of CaptKangaroo
    CaptKangaroo Male 50-59
    2314 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 5:46 am
    What I take away from this vid is,some guy with an alcohol problem,committed a crime to get health care.He claims that he is poor,and therefore lacks health care insurance.Yet,he wants a long enough sentence to be eligible for Social Security upon release,and says he has a condo on Myrtle Beach(That ain`t cheap) lined up.He`s a con artist,basically.
  57. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 5:51 am
    Btw, can we stop calling it "free healthcare"? It gives an incorrect impression of what it is.

    A better description is "free at the point of use." It means that we all collectively pool our resources so that it`s already paid for if and when we need it.

    It`s effectively all-inclusive health insurance at the national level. In Britain, that`s even what it`s called: National Insurance (covers healthcare, state pensions, unemployment benefit, etc).

    Everyone who can afford to pay, pays (less than HALF what Americans pay for their healthcare, mind you), and everyone who needs it, gets it...EXACTLY the same way that other essential services run, such as the police, the criminal justice service, schools, fire and rescue, etc.

    It`s not a huge mental shift to move "healthcare" into the same catagory as those other services.
  58. Profile photo of meepmaker
    meepmaker Male 30-39
    6694 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 6:30 am
    Thats crazy.
  59. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 6:51 am
    Hmmm. Sounds like a plan CJ might need.
  60. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 6:58 am
    When you take competition out of the system the pace of innovation slows, and cost go up, EVERY TIME. Yes it will feel great for a few years but in the long run the level of care will not be what it could have been, the cost will go up, or both. Just look at every nationlized health care system.
  61. Profile photo of steve41high
    steve41high Male 18-29
    1153 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:00 am
    good lad
  62. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:10 am
    add more consumers who pay less to an already inundated and overwhelmed limited resource... what could go wrong?!
  63. Profile photo of Oystah
    Oystah Female 40-49
    4033 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:10 am
    I wonder if he considered the potential for anal rapings in that plan.
  64. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:15 am
    oh and i`d like to give a huge effing "lol" at the people who say "it`s just like paying for fire/ police/ schooling"... guess what guy, none of those cost anywhere near healthcare and those are generally LOCALLY FUNDED SERVICES. I pay taxes for MY fire department and MY school district and MY police department and not anyone else`s (essentially). That`s how this country was FOUNDED and that`s why nationalized health insurance is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Get a drating clue. The federal government has been getting more and more out of control and in the last 3 years it`s accelerated at an alarming rate.
  65. Profile photo of EgalM
    EgalM Male 30-39
    1707 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:17 am
    I once heard a guy say anytime he needed a place to stay he`d just commit a crime, 3 square meals and a warm bed, and I guess we can add medical attention to the list.
  66. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:18 am
    "Americans often say they have shorter waiting times...that may be true: it`s amazing how short a line you can get WHEN MILLIONS CAN`T AFFORD TO EVEN BE IN THE LINE IN THE FIRST PLACE. "

    heres the problem in america when it comes to healthcare, there are people who can afford the best healthcare and they get great coverage, when they get cancer, they get treated. then there are people who can`t afford the same coverage as group A but want to be treated the same, we`ll call them group B. there ARE free clinics that are paid by the government, but they don`t offer the same coverage (mainly specialist). they can handle the flu and set broken bones, but they can`t get you cancer treatment, so they`ll refer you to said specialist; but I digress. group B is either ignorant to their free healthcare (50% probably), the other 50% is too proud to use free clinics, or really "don`t want to deal with those people" that normally use free healthcare.
  67. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:18 am
    EgalM - add cable TV to that list as well
  68. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:19 am
    @dang007

    "When you take competition out of the system the pace of innovation slows"

    Competition doesn`t have to be in the form of profit.

    It can come in the form of obtaining and keeping your job. Most of us experience this form of competition; if you don`t work hard, your boss will fire you and replace you with someone who does.

    "Just look at every nationlized health care system."

    The per person cost of the British national health service, that covers every single man woman and child in this country, is HALF of what the average American pays for their private healthcare and socialised medical care taxes.

    The facts do not bear you out: we are covering ALL of our citizens, and doing it more cheaply than YOU are covering only a PORTION of your citizens.
  69. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:26 am
    @EricWRN

    "I pay taxes for MY fire department and MY school district and MY police department and not anyone else`s"

    Aaaand that right there is the fundamental selfish attitude of the American taxpayer.

    Here`s a thought for you; if you`re healthy, why would you pay for health insurance? All you`re doing is paying for other people`s healthcare.

    And you`ll say "I`m paying for my future possible need"...and bingo, there is the EXACT same explanation of taxation-funded services.

    Just like insurance, tax-funded systems are about everyone pooling together a shared pot that`s there for anyone who needs it...except there`s not money skimmed off the top for profit, and it doesn`t exclude people the moment they can`t pay into the pot (you know, when they actually NEED the pot).
  70. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:30 am
    @dang007

    "When you take competition out of the system the pace of innovation slows, and cost go up, EVERY TIME."

    Incidentally, as an example for you: when Britain privatised its railways, costs went up, service quality dropped in most quarters, and safety standards dropped so drastically that we experienced several major fatal rail disasters (such as Potters Bar).

    Profit-driven competition is all about creating greater profit, NOT about providing a better service for the customer. Often, the two are functionally the same; better service leads to greater profits. But that does not always hold true, and it isn`t always what happens.
  71. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:43 am
    "The facts do not bear you out: we are covering ALL of our citizens, and doing it more cheaply than YOU are covering only a PORTION of your citizens."

    don`t be blinded by the propoganda

    the breakdown of healthcare

    "Competition doesn`t have to be in the form of profit.

    It can come in the form of obtaining and keeping your job. Most of us experience this form of competition; if you don`t work hard, your boss will fire you and replace you with someone who does. "

    except, what is motivating the `bottom` guy to want your job? more pay than what he`s currently getting, thus its still motivated by money. Your boss also fired you because he wants to get his money worth in an employee
  72. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:45 am
    Musuko42, i`m glad you know so much about english or european socioeconomics and history but I have bad news for you... you have no clue about how America works... every single time something is privatized in america it runs more efficiently. And it`s laughable to me when someone talks about how much money england saves having socialized medicine and saying the US would do the same as if England and the US have ANYTHING in common demographically at all. It`s like saying "oh look, it works in this little po-dunk town in nowhere USA so let`s implement it as a federal law because it must work everywhere!" Comparing English socioeconomics to US socioeconomics and expecting the same outcome is a fundamental flaw in common sense. And I`m not even going to get into the fact that the best health care you can get in the US is better than the best health care you can get anywhere in the world.
  73. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:49 am
    Furthermore it pisses me off how many people try to guilt anyone who works their ass off for their money and their well being and their future and their family and thinks they shouldn`t be drating entitled to every last penny they work for. If every damn person had the same philosophy (work your ass off to get what you deserve) then we wouldn`t need socialized ANYTHING, would we?! And don`t even start bitching about the needy, because time and time again AMERICAN history has shown that BENEVOLENCE and PRIVATE CHARITY has given far more money and aid faster and more efficiently than ANY beaurocratic and corrupt federal government program.
  74. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:54 am
    @IkeRay

    Do you genuinely live in a world where the only possible reason anyone could have for wanting a particular job is because it pays more?

    That truly is sad.

    Did you never stop to think that even if doctors weren`t paid like superstars, many people would still want to become a doctor, out of a passion for the work, rather than just what they take home in their wallet at the end of the day?

    No wonder your healthcare system and economy in general is up the pooter if money`s the only thing anyone over there cares about.
  75. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 7:56 am
    oh, and the comment about covering "all our citizens" at a "cheaper cost than we`re covering a portion of our citizens" is drating HILARIOUS considering a PORTION of our citizens is still a greater amount than all of your citizens. You know, there are logical, or at least philosophical arguments to be made in support of socialized health care in america but it`s a damn shame not one drating person here can make one.
  76. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:01 am
    @Musuko, awww, wouldn`t it be sweet if we lived in a world where no matter how big a moron you are, if you just get all warm and fuzzy practicing medicine and helping out your neighbor you could do it and you don`t even have to get paid much because the government gives you anything you need? Golly that sounds like utopia to me too! I can`t even imagine a world where dirty, mean people are motivated by things that might merely better their own lives and provide a personal reward for the things that they`ve worked for! It`s almost as if human beings are merely just animals :(
  77. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:05 am
    @EricWRN

    "If every damn person had the same philosophy (work your ass off to get what you deserve) then we wouldn`t need socialized ANYTHING, would we?!"

    Yes, you would.

    Work as hard as you like; not everyone is going to have a hundred grand sitting ready in the bank if their heart fails, or their house is demolished by a hurricane, etc.

    We build safety nets. We call them insurance when it`s private, and welfare when it`s not.

    It`s only a difference of organisation.
  78. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:06 am
    @EricWRN

    "oh, and the comment about covering "all our citizens" at a "cheaper cost than we`re covering a portion of our citizens" is drating HILARIOUS considering a PORTION of our citizens is still a greater amount than all of your citizens."

    *sigh*

    You really didn`t understand what PER PERSON COST means, did you?

    Utter, utter fail on your part. Thank you, you`re done here. Next test subject.
  79. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:07 am
    Musuko, I actually addressed that in the end of my post, sorry you couldn`t be bother to read the whole thing before you spat out your uninformed opinion
  80. Profile photo of jebusis8
    jebusis8 Male 40-49
    4 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:10 am
    what a sad excuse of a country we have become....
  81. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:10 am
    @EricWRN

    Show me where you "addressed" that I was talking about the per person cost, which is directly comparible between populations, regardless of how large those populations are, because I don`t see it.
  82. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:14 am
    Musuko: sorry, you`re not going to misread what I`ve written (intentionally or otherwise) so you can make some cowardly passive-aggressive commentary about being above talking to someone and then continue asking questions that you really don`t care about the answers to.

    We`re done here. Next test subject.
  83. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:16 am
    @EricWRN - you make good arguments. Clearly we are proud of the NHS, and you are proud of your own health service. I agree with many of your arguments about being able to help ourselves first, and this capitalist view has helped both our nations to prosper, but many of us in the UK fear the economic gap widening. We reject the privitisation of many industries for that reason. I guess the `extreme` criticism of a private health service is that only the wealthy stay healthy! Who funds your free clinics?
  84. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:16 am
    @EricWRN

    That?

    Nothing in there says anything about per person cost.

    See, what happened here is you said this:

    "oh, and the comment about covering "all our citizens" at a "cheaper cost than we`re covering a portion of our citizens" is drating HILARIOUS considering a PORTION of our citizens is still a greater amount than all of your citizens."

    Because you couldn`t grasp the concept that my statement was that we are spending less per person than you are, and not that we are spending less because there are fewer of us.

    And now you`re scrambling around for something to cover yourself with.

    Just do us a favour and delete the post. Save your own embarassment.
  85. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:21 am
    Musuko: because I know you`re too busy trying to be combine wit and passive-aggressiveness, I will copy and paste this comment for you but only once. If you miss it twice it`s really your own fault, and I`ll just say something super-clever like "next test subject, lulz!"

    "And it`s laughable to me when someone talks about how much money england saves having socialized medicine and saying the US would do the same as if England and the US have ANYTHING in common demographically at all. It`s like saying "oh look, it works in this little po-dunk town in nowhere USA so let`s implement it as a federal law because it must work everywhere!" Comparing English socioeconomics to US socioeconomics and expecting the same outcome is a fundamental flaw in common sense."
  86. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:26 am
    Beardofzeus: and that`s why I would never say that the NHS is a bad system for England because clearly it has many merits. I honestly don`t even care what system works in country X as long as it works. It`s simply a terrible plan to implement in the US. Most free clinics in the US are ultimately funded by federal dollars.
  87. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:29 am
    One of the biggest problems the US currently has is that the country was founded on the principle of having a weak central government and more independent states. Anymore, even the states get all their money from the federal government so "state" programs are actually getting tax dollars from all over the country and I find it despicable.
  88. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:31 am
    And that being the case, the federal government just decides more and more to just make everything a law everywhere. It`s the same logic that Musuko is applying, honestly. "Well it works good in city X and people there like it so let`s apply it to the whole country!" Worst. Logic. Evar.
  89. Profile photo of Coolhandluke
    Coolhandluke Male 18-29
    95 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:31 am
    Musako42: It`s nice that you imagine a world where socialistic changes would breed good-hearted competition in the work-place and where all the needy and poor would be taken care of. But you need to shut you mouth now, because capitalism is the best, hands-down, system of government that has ever created a stable country for more than 300 years. I DARE you to name another one.

    To me, socialism sounds like a watered-down version of communism, and frankly, with the crooks running our government, the last thing I want is more money flowing into it.

    When you privatize something, the competition drives innovation and quality (see Apple vs. Microsoft). When you federalize something, it turns into absolute crap (see: American DMVs, Italian Hospitals (heck, pick any Government-run Italian Service), etc.)

    The capitalist way is this: Your benefits are proportional to your work

    The socialist way is: Work however hard you want (for the good of the people, wor
  90. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:32 am
    @EricWRN

    Since we`re copy and pasting a lot, I`ll put this back for you:

    "oh, and the comment about covering "all our citizens" at a "cheaper cost than we`re covering a portion of our citizens" is drating HILARIOUS considering a PORTION of our citizens is still a greater amount than all of your citizens."

    The copypasta you keep repeating doesn`t explain away the mistake you`ve made here: I said that we pay less per person to cover all of our population, and you mistakenly believed I was talking about overall cost, not cost per person, and made a "lol" about how you have more citizens.

    THAT is what you`re not addressing.
  91. Profile photo of Coolhandluke
    Coolhandluke Male 18-29
    95 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:35 am
    The socialist way is: Work however hard you want, heck, you can be a lazy bum who pays no taxes, you should be entitled to free everything. Unemployed? Get free money! Hungry? Free food! Sick? Free hospital!

    In the old days, if you didn`t work for your meat you died. If you got sick and couldn`t afford to pay the medicine man, you died.

    Everything in the world can`t be free. The money`s gotta come from somewhere; otherwise you`ve somehow invented a perpetual energy machine.
  92. Profile photo of Coolhandluke
    Coolhandluke Male 18-29
    95 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:42 am
    And Musako, stop singing the praises of NHS, because News Flash: It`s not that great!

    Article 1

    Article 2
    Article 3

    just a small sample of TODAY`s news articles.
  93. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 8:44 am
    Musuko: ok, ok... I`ll spell it out for you since you can`t seem to draw a straight line between two linear points of reason.

    You cannot logically state system X is better than system Y by comparing "per capita" information between the US and UK based on raw and unqualified data because there is such a huge disparity in the demographic make-up of the US vs. the UK. It`s like comparing 5 apples and 5 oranges and saying "well i said per-capita!". And I`m well aware you`re going to make some ridiculous comment about the definition of "per-capita" and try to further derail this discussion but I`m giving myself an A for effort in trying extra-hard to reason with special-needs individuals such as yourself.
  94. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 9:05 am
    Some interesting points (minus the aggression). I still feel like some sort of socialist system has to be the best, as it is ultimately the fairest. I think the issue here, as with many of our social problems, comes down to those at the top retaining too much for themselves, and those at the bottom expecting handouts without even a thank you. Get the underclass working and get the bankers donating half their salaries and we may solve a few other issues! Sorry to be pedantic, but can you please endeavor to make a distinction between UK and England?? I am Scottish and a UK citizen ;)
  95. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 9:11 am
    Beardofzeus: I find nothing fair about giving what I`ve earned to someone else - I don`t see how that`s fair in any sense of the word. If you want to argue it`s more humane or moral OK but there`s nothing fair about it. People don`t all work as hard as each other and some just happen to get paid more. I work my ass off to get my keep and there`s nothing fair about having to give part of it away.
  96. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 9:14 am
    Sure, but not everybody can earn the same. A teacher will never earn the same as a banker. Both work hard. Should the teacher be forced to accept a lesser level of care should they/or their child fall ill? Should we all go for jobs that offer the highest salaries in order to afford the best healthcare? Should all jobs pay equally? It`s too complicated. That`s what I mean by fairest.
  97. Profile photo of RPossum
    RPossum Male 30-39
    1059 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 9:41 am
    Slow clap.
  98. Profile photo of greenbasterd
    greenbasterd Male 18-29
    2377 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 9:43 am
    ha good for him.. use that system for what its worth while its left!
  99. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 9:59 am
    @EricWRN you my friend is hilarious, A++ for believeing in your ideologies.

    Luckily most people would rather see people wait for their surgery, than die because they cant afford it.

    On a side note, not all of europe is socialistic, so please dont compare a post (quite some years ago but still) fascist society like italy with an actual socialistic society. Like scandinavian countries.

    We (europeans) do not need to argue logically with most americans over which system is better. Because arguements are most often met with "Capitalism is better period" and an abundance of inability to see positive points on a system that the population historically has been told is evil and bad. (i reffer to the cold war where russia, america and china got too ideologic)

    Just ease up a bit man and realize that huge parts of the world do not share your opinion.
    Which im sure you dont care about anyway USA USA USA luls.
  100. Profile photo of AbiElectric
    AbiElectric Female 18-29
    172 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 10:10 am
    Agree completely Essersmith.

    NHS NHS!
  101. Profile photo of jeepjones
    jeepjones Male 30-39
    554 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 10:41 am
    Honestly, this is going to become more common than most think. After the baby boomers have completely depleted Canada`s Pension Plan this is what my generation and the one that follows will have to do.
  102. Profile photo of RPGillespie
    RPGillespie Male 13-17
    217 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 11:01 am
    Yeah Essersmith, if it weren`t for the USA the rest of the world would still be run by kings. You`d still be chilling under the rule of some 2-cent monarchy if the smart and genius americans didn`t break free from such madness and create freedom for the entire planet. That`s right, if it wasn`t for the USA, Europe would not even be socialist right now.
  103. Profile photo of RPGillespie
    RPGillespie Male 13-17
    217 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 11:02 am
    And the point of my last post is that we don`t care what the rest of the world thinks, because last I checked we run the world, and everybody copies us and our technology anyway.
  104. Profile photo of RPGillespie
    RPGillespie Male 13-17
    217 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 11:03 am
    And we have more nukes and F22`s.
  105. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 11:14 am
    RPGillespie - Ha Ha silly one, I`m sure the Romans said that too! Seriously though It`s shocking that a civilised country such as the US doesn`t have a solid and fair health care system and in many ways this makes the US more backward that a lot of countries that would be deemed inferior in the eyes of US citizens.
  106. Profile photo of Lobotomy
    Lobotomy Male 13-17
    495 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 11:31 am
    @RPGillespie You`re giving us way to much credit. We stopped America from being run by kings, thats it. We didn`t go over to the other countries and get rid of their monarchs.
  107. Profile photo of Essersmith
    Essersmith Male 18-29
    275 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 11:33 am
    @RPGillespie Thanks for proving my point. Dont worry you wont get it ^^.

  108. Profile photo of RPGillespie
    RPGillespie Male 13-17
    217 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 11:35 am
    Lobotomy - and by breaking the cycle of monarchy, we became the model the other nations became jealous of and so their citizens overthrew their respective governments so they could be free like us.
  109. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    The point is made
  110. Profile photo of Ska_Machine
    Ska_Machine Male 13-17
    153 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:05 pm
    @RPGillespie You are the height of American ignorance. You do realize Britain was a democracy before the US existed, right? US and Canada are British colonies, we adopted the British system, only you guys chopped off the monarchy bit.
    This is just another example of American ideolism, where these ignorant people think they`re god`s gift to the world.
    Eiropean people, as a Canadian, we hate the Americans on a while too, please don`t think we`re like them.
  111. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:07 pm
    >>>Incidentally, as an example for you: when Britain privatised its railways, costs went up, service quality dropped in most quarters, and safety standards dropped so drastically that we experienced several major fatal rail disasters (such as Potters Bar).

    Profit-driven competition is all about creating greater profit, NOT about providing a better service for the customer. Often, the two are functionally the same; better service leads to greater profits. But that does not always hold true, and it isn`t always what happens.<<<

    But you privatized it by giving it to an effective monopoly. That is NOT competition and you got just what I would expect for it. Take the US amtrak vs. the free competition of the US airways.
  112. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:07 pm
    @Nyan:

    why is the mailman wearing the bucket?
  113. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    >>>except, what is motivating the `bottom` guy to want your job? more pay than what he`s currently getting, thus its still motivated by money. Your boss also fired you because he wants to get his money worth in an employee<<<

    The only thing that motivates ANYONE is doing what they think is best for them and their loved ones. (Yes there are a few truly altruistic people that prove the rule.) That`s why Communism and socialism are great for SMALL groups but utterly fail when applied to larger groups. In todays society, were we buy things with MONEY and rarely if ever barter the competition comes done to money. If you have only one provider of a service the cost will go up and the quality will go down, every time. There are no exceptions. You can mitigate this by regulations but it will still happen. On the other hand if the organization is profiting others will want to provide that service and also profit, cost go down and quality goes up naturally.
  114. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:16 pm
    >>Did you never stop to think that even if doctors weren`t paid like superstars, many people would still want to become a doctor, out of a passion for the work, rather than just what they take home in their wallet at the end of the day?<<<

    A red herring that misses the point. While some doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. do it just because the love that specific line of work, most do it because it happens to be one of the lines of work that they thought they would enjoy when looking at career options, is something the could get qualified for, and comes with a standard of living that is acceptable to them.
  115. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:24 pm
    On the other hand if the organization is profiting others will want to provide that service and also profit, cost go down and quality goes up naturally.

    Correct me if i`m wrong but isn`t the cost of insurance rising for no real reason in America? Where you only have the big insurance companies charging what they want and paying out what they want?

    Also despite EricWRN claiming to have covered this, why do you as an American pay more per person for a lower life expectancy than the UK? There was a lovely graphic from here a while ago showing America paying far more than most countries per person on healthcare yet having and average life expectancy.
  116. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:24 pm
    >>> A teacher will never earn the same as a banker.<<<

    Why not????

    Explain and you will see that in one case the free market is at work and in the other it is not. At least not to the same degree. Also, be sure you are comparing apples to apples, same work time, same fringe benefits etc.
  117. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:26 pm
    I also don`t understand this style of argument, so if anyone can clarify or correct me go ahead.

    "We shouldn`t have to pay for them, there are free services available funded by the goverment". Unless i`m very much mistaken, isn`t that money from your taxes anyway?
  118. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:27 pm
    >>>Correct me if i`m wrong but isn`t the cost of insurance rising for no real reason in America? Where you only have the big insurance companies charging what they want and paying out what they want? <<<

    Insurance rates are going up for several reasons including:

    1. New legislation.
    2. The fact that we do NOT have good competition in the insurance industry.
    3. We also do not have good competition in health care providers.

    So again TAKE away competition and cost go up.
  119. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:33 pm
    >>>US doesn`t have a solid and fair health care system<<<

    At any time I or anyone else needs health care we can get it. Of course we need to PAY for it. What the H... could be more FAIR than that?

    Most any statistic that relates the quality of outcome of medical procedures, cancer survival rates for example, the US is ahead of the rest of the world. Sounds pretty SOLID to me.

    Of course I know what you meant by fair and solid was that someone else paid for it. But that seems to be the crux of the issue. I and others have one definition of the word fair and others seem to have a different definition.
  120. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:34 pm
    Dang007:

    You`ve been arguing that companies for profit work better. So why would the Big providers want more competition. Do you think that they`re too big to have any real competition anyway?
  121. Profile photo of zeegrr
    zeegrr Male 40-49
    140 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:40 pm
    Prolly the only way anyone would be able to get healthcare in america.
  122. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:40 pm
    >>>So why would the Big providers want more competition. Do you think that they`re too big to have any real competition anyway?<<<

    I never said they did. The natural tendency is for organizations to grow and beat out their competitors. At some point they do become to large and have to much power for new competitors to begin. That is one of the reasons for anti trust regulations. Unfortunately, when governments start trying over regulate big companies can use the regulations to effectively limit competition as well. None the less the worst case is when the government is the monopoly.
  123. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    "Well it works good in city X and people there like it so let`s apply it to the whole country!" Worst. Logic. Evar.

    It`s not as if NHC is only used in one backwater country. There are a hell of a lot of countries that use universal health care.
  124. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 1:46 pm
    Health Care Graph

    This was the graphic i was talking about. Was posted on here during one of the previous discussions about this.
  125. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:08 pm
    @Dang - you have successfully ended this discussion for me. I feel I am discussing this with entirely the wrong people. If I could sum up the argument that has been presented:
    The US system is GREAT because I have money and can afford insurance, so f*** anybody that can`t afford it.

    You have merely contributed to a negative stereotype of capitalist and elitist America. Though this self-centered, short-term view of success is probably not your fault, it will not serve you well. Unless of course you value money over all else in this world.
  126. Profile photo of Coolhandluke
    Coolhandluke Male 18-29
    95 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:45 pm
    @Ska_Machine - if Britain was such a great democracy before America came into existence, why did so many English people migrate to america for religious freedom, hmm? And if it was such a great democracy, how come the King didn`t listen to the voice of the people that said we don`t want you here?
  127. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:48 pm
    >>>The US system is GREAT because I have money and can afford insurance, so f*** anybody that can`t afford it.<<<


    I NEVER EVER SAID THIS. Stop putting words in my mouth.
  128. Profile photo of dang007
    dang007 Male 30-39
    596 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:49 pm
    >>>I feel I am discussing this with entirely the wrong people.<<<

    Well of course you are. You are on IAB for crying out loud.
  129. Profile photo of Coolhandluke
    Coolhandluke Male 18-29
    95 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 2:54 pm
    @Beardofzeus - Nothing in life is really free. Deal with it.

    Only time will tell if the UK healthcare system really is better than the US`s.

    If the UK healthcare is still around and great in 100 years, I`m sure the US will switch, but right now it seems like a lot of nations are jumping on the socialized healthcare bandwagon as the solution to all healthcare problems without knowing it`s potential future stability and effectiveness. You could be right - it could be great, but you could also be wrong, and it could fail for unforeseen complications; only time will tell.

    You can`t disagree with that.
  130. Profile photo of Beardofzeus
    Beardofzeus Male 30-39
    670 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:23 pm
    @Dang - your point about IAB definitely being the wrong forum is well received! Though it is great to be able to have these debates.

    @Coolhandluke - I fear you have missed the point. Again.
  131. Profile photo of XtifnerX
    XtifnerX Female 13-17
    131 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 3:28 pm
    poor guy...
  132. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 4:36 pm
    dang007: it`s a typical accusation for people who want to support socialization when they can`t provide any sort of sound logic. They just act like they are morally superior and that you are selfish and provide some sort of BS, completely irrelevant statistic. I love how defensive all these europeans are about the US not wanting socialized health care, although no one is arguing that they should privatize.

    And anyone who says that giving up what you have earned to someone else who hasn`t is "fair" is a completely drating idiot. There`s nothing fair about it. You can argue that it`s "moral" but that`s the reason the US was founded isn`t it? To escape being governed on the basis of what some person or a group of people decide is the "moral" thing to do.

    I don`t know if they assign you to a career in England (sarcasm), but in the US people CHOOSE their career path and it`s NOT my responsibility or duty to help someone else who CHOOSES a lo
  133. Profile photo of chicobartend
    chicobartend Male 18-29
    252 posts
    June 21, 2011 at 6:27 pm
    This is fu(ked.
  134. Profile photo of dumbassbufet
    dumbassbufet Male 13-17
    75 posts
    June 23, 2011 at 2:05 pm
    @EricWRN you greedy corrupt fat cats are the reason people revolted and protested for healthcare. life is a human right and a good 90% of the world seems to think that too. i`m not surprised though, you people are too stubbern to adopt the metric system
  135. Profile photo of sulu
    sulu Male 18-29
    994 posts
    June 26, 2011 at 6:03 pm
    "And anyone who says that giving up what you have earned to someone else who hasn`t is "fair" is a completely drating idiot. There`s nothing fair about it. You can argue that it`s "moral" but that`s the reason the US was founded isn`t it? To escape being governed on the basis of what some person or a group of people decide is the "moral" thing to do. "

    You heard it here first folks.

    Is EricWRN entitled to the sweat of his brow?

    Objectivism is so last year...

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