Klavan`s Economic Smackdown: Paul Ryan Vs. Barack

Submitted by: auburnjunky 6 years ago in

Now here"s a topic for a healthy debate. Let"s tell the professional economist he"s wrong everybody!
There are 64 comments:
Male 25,416
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Male 40,728
@RPossum & @sssdfg: You may claim it is biased, but you still have to admit it`s true. His facts are solid, accurate and easily verified.

Liberal mind: Truth = Bias (nice!)
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Male 190
wow.... I wonder which party he belongs to.

This is so biased it hurts
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Male 17,511
fiveanthems: Government ran and or heavily regulated business does not foster competition it creates oligarchies and monopolies.

The little guy with a new idea has no chance of success in a socialist system, The regulations, High mandatory union wages and benefits, High taxes, and higher cost of material means the little guy has no way of making enough profit to compete with government ran and subsidized companies.

In that system innovation ceases to exist, people with new ideas know they will be smothered so they don`t even attempt entrepreneurship.

We live in a world where the reward has to outweigh the risk, otherwise the endeavor is not worth doing, plain and simple.

May I suggest you read a book called Atlas Shrugged by the author Ayn Rand, It is very informative and enlightening on the subject.
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Male 1,122
Biased video is biased.

Worth noting that the positives of the republican plan were clear and succinct, but must be taken independently of the democratic plan as the comparisons to the Obama plan (such as the death panel) illustrate the strong republican bias.
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Male 40,728
@IrishJesus: never too late!
I seperated the paragraph with the `fail smell` from the one chastising the lefties. A small detail, yes it`s true, and "y`all" can be plural or singular. I didn`t intend to call you specificly a lefty IJ, I recall our previous conversations, eh?
It`s a biased video? But it`s still true, you gotta admit that, eh?

@fiveanthems: in a perfect world, in ideal conditions, Socialism works. So does Capitalism, ideally it is a utopia for all! However this is the real world: so far in human history large scale Socialism = Fail! (small groups have done wonderfully with it though) and Capitalism = Better than all the rest.
Can a `small business` make a 747? I doubt it.
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Male 383
@Crakrjak; That depends on perspective; Theoretically socialism (as the stage preceding communism) empowers the community with the means of production etc. Whether this be through more state control or `community`/`people` based control depends. Naturally this is just Marxist theory, and Marx himself made certain demand-like statements that would suggest he viewed Socialism as further state influence. Problem is that the term `Socialism` has become such a broad term that it has little meaning.
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Male 49
@auburnjunky: I think our current definition of small business is fair. I`m not really suggesting we ONLY have small businesses, but at a certain point, organizations tend to become too big to have any real quality control anyway.

@crakrjak: You don`t know what socialism is, then. You only know what crackpots have told you it is. Look in a dictionary. It may have gotten that reputation based on dictatorships liking the name, but competition can still exist within a socialist framework.
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Male 17,511
fiveanthems: [quote]Socialism, in its truest sense, gives CITIZENS more power to govern themselves, not the representatives more power to govern us.[/quote]

I don`t know where you learned the definition of the term socialism, but you have it backwards.

Socialism takes away the power of the citizens to make choices for themselves and replaces it with one government run system for all.

Capitalism gives people the most choice and the best value for their money because different companies compete for customers, In socialism there is no competition, no choice, and the government doesn`t have to care if you`re happy with their service or not, You`re stuck with them and have no recourse.
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Male 483
I know i`m a little late to the reply, but I`m doing it anyway.

5Cats: Why did you choose MY comment out of all the others about how biased the video is, then called me a "lefty"? I know we`ve argued before, but I feel that was just targeting. Also, I would like to make clear I hate both political extremes, making me a believer of my own hybrid of values (believe in less government intervention, but am "pro-choice", refuse to allow my guns to be taken away, but disagree with our involvement in the Middle East, etc.) In fact, cookie-cutting your ideology to fit some all-or-nothing mindset is blatantly foolish and lazy. So no, I`m not a "lefty", "libtard", or any other childlike name for it. I`m Colin from Austin, Texas. I believe what I damn-well please, so kiss the whitest part of my ass.

Oh, and this video is biased.
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Male 181
In what way is the NHS the model for the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? That`s the danger of listening to this kind of lazy, partisan argument, auburnjunky: you can`t even make real criticisms of genuinely flawed policy. Instead of actually knowing what you`re opposing, you seem to think the law has something to do with government-run hospitals.
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Male 4
Sooo.... this is a little bit racist.
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Female 3,001
what i learned from this video: if someone sounds smart and they say anything with enough confidence, I will tend to believe them with no previous understanding of what they are talking about.
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Male 10,338
Happiness was a euphemism.

I agree though. Small business is better. Problem is, when does one say "I am making too much money. I have to stop growing before I lose my `small business` status."

Walmart started out as a small convenience store in Arkansas. Exxon started with one oil well. Small business is fine, It accounts for over 90% of all business revenue in the US, but you can`t stop a good idea from growing.
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Male 49
@auburnjunky:

No corporations. Small businesses are better for the economy, and are more innovative.

You`re also failing to consider anything about corporate greed allowed by lax oversight. Or the fact that jobs are created by necessity, not "happiness."
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Male 10,338
@fiveanthems: Which would you rather have?

A) A happy corporation with acceptable tax rates, and not too much unnecessary oversight which, in it`s happiness, creates jobs and invests in new products, fueling the economy and promoting innovation.

OR

B) A sad corporation that is over-taxed and over regulated which, in its sadness, cuts jobs and slashes R&D to keep its margins constant?
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Male 49
CrakrJak: Socialism, in its truest sense, gives CITIZENS more power to govern themselves, not the representatives more power to govern us. The Constitution was written more than 200 years ago, and it doesn`t do much to protect citizens in a global economy. Our forefathers- Jefferson particularly, were very afraid that we would get to the point that corporations had more power than government. Right now it seems that our corporations sneer at our government, and the conservatives only encourage it.
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Male 749
@Lukgeezy: [quote]I have liberal as well as conservative aspects that are involved in my life and dont need all these childish games of manipulation trying to get me to be an extreme on either side[/quote]

Maybe we`ll just call you Sybil. Alternately, we can get you an exterminator to kill all those nasty aspects. My sincerest condolences to you.
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Male 69
@fiveanthems Hey man I think you should see this article. The QUALITY of US Healthcare is one of, if not, the best in the world. The rankings are not based off of the quality though, and many of the factors are not relevant and make these "rankings" invalid. US Healthcare
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Male 69
Actually I believe that a rational human (forgetting the conservative vs. liberal argument) would say "Hey drat that, I dont want someone to tell me that i cant get this heart surgery (even though i might have the money and the will power and all that jazz) because I`m too old and my father died of a heart so that makes me too low of a retention rate" I dont think ANYONE wants to be treated like an investment, and thats exactly what these death panels would do.
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Male 17,511
fiveanthems: Conservatives hate socialism because it goes against everything in our constitution. A government powerful enough to give you everything is powerful enough to take it all our freedoms away as well.

Socialism, nor communism, are the `utopias` they`ve been sold and propagandized to be, Just ask anyone in Greece right now.
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Male 10,338
@fiveanthems: Dude. It is unaffordable. It cannot sustain itself.
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Male 49
@auburnjunky- even in the current system, where healthy people are still paying for the unhealthy, "death panels" make sense. Conservatives HATE socialism because they have to pay taxes (instead of a monthly bill) so a poor person can get health care, but if a democrat proposes we don`t strain the system with costly procedures for people that are going to die soon with or without treatment, you sensationalize it.
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Male 10,338
By the way guys. If you don`t think government health care uses a board to approve treatment, you are sadly mistaken. There is someone (besides the doctor) approving every, single, treatment, period.

You really think granny, who is pushing 90, is gonna get that hip replacement on Obamacare? Nope.

Don`t give me the bullsh it line about insurance being the same either. Obamacare is designed to put the insurance companies out of contention, so that Obamacare becomes the single payer system that they want.

What we need to do, is let insurance companies sell policies over state lines. That will drive prices through the floor, which will bring down the cost of health care as a whole.
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Male 718
yeah, i sure do want my life or my family`s life being decided by 15 grim reapers..
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Male 10,338
Tee hee!
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Male 511
He seriously brought death panels into his argument.

Did you here that? That`s the sound of his credibility disappearing.
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Male 48
Why can`t anyone ever make a clear argument for or against an economic position without smearing those they disagree with?

I can`t take anyone seriously when they resort to ad hominem arguments.
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Male 49
@53590
I think you have heard and accepted a lot of BS regarding socialized health care. Our quality of care is LOWER than nations that have socialized their health care. I have friends who have experienced it. There is very little difference from our care aside from walking out debt free.

A ride to the hospital in an ambulance here costs $1K+. So, if I were to break my leg, I get to the hospital owing about as much as I make in a month. Then, treatment for the leg costs around $4K, and obviously I couldn`t walk around for a while. Now, I need my legs to do my job, so most likely, I`d get fired, and of course I would need to get unemployment. THEN, I probably should be getting physical therapy. So, I`m 5K in debt, and unemployed. For a common injury. And still accruing debt. And taking money out of your taxes anyway. Good system, right?
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Male 881
@5Cats, Keynesian has a proven history of working with one exception in the early 1970`s. Supply side has a proven history of failing. But then, if recovery is not your measure of success and you instead measure how much richer you make the rich, then I guess supply side is the clear winner.

You are the one on drugs if you think this has a single thing to do with the free market.
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Male 12
@Legion5

So would you be in favour of a technocracy-ish system?

Say we developed a system where all the economists would elect 2-3 of the countries leading economists. And then the engineers ,scientists ,sociologists,lawyers etc would do the same with their respective fields. The military might choose a few generals as experts in defence. And then the masses would elect a President. Although the president would mainly be a face/symbol and not have much power.
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Male 40,728
Welcome to IAB @53590! Where lefties whine and moan about ANYTHING even vaguely "right", lolz!

@Notaspy: um, are you on drugs dude? srsly. The free market has "never worked"? Y`all are trippin...
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Male 20
On another note; Why am I seeing all these comments about how this video is biased and not a single comment like that on the thousands of other videos making fun of Republicans. We can`t do anything without you guys turning into a bunch of pussies.
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Male 20
Fiveanthems, "...why do we want our healthcare system to be on the free market? The free market relies heavily on something called "markup," so when we pay for a surgery, we are also paying so that the hospital has a surplus of dollars. Insurance, as a concept, is basically socialist anyway, but again, we are paying a premium so that the industry has a surplus of dollars, and they get to determine whether or not they`d really like to help us."

You`d think that and I honestly don`t blame you for thinking that. But if you look at the quality of products on the free market vs. public; I`d be one to argue that paying the markup is worth the enhanced quality you receive from the private sector. Besides, in the private sector only the people that need the product are using it.

But lets assume for a second that the quality were the same. Now lets analyse the efficiency of the public sector. Are we really paying less?
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Male 881
I like how this video explains how the thing that has been proven to work, wont work. I also like the part where he shows how the thing that has never worked, will work this time.
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Male 605
aside that he is stating facts, the bickering insults obviously shows its right-winged bias, which makes me kinda turn away from it.... I have liberal as well as conservative aspects that are involved in my life and dont need all these childish games of manipulation trying to get me to be an extreme on either side..
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Male 438
RobSwindol, many of my fellow economists, financial analysts etc have the most academically advanced education possible. I work with people that were neurosurgeons, have PHD`s in quantum physics, nuclear physics, theoretical mathematics etc. Economics employs the best minds in the world as par for the course. On top of that economists actually employ more supercomputer power than theoretical physicists.

Honestly public opinion and partisan politics actually is an incredible burden on economics. The Large Hadron Collider is a good example of the effect of uninformed public opinion on complex issues. There was a large outcry of doomsday predictions related to it and black holes, and from a physics standpoint were ridiculous. Now take the LHC situation and combine that with people thinking it`s rudimentary like you and then make the theory even more complex because economics is harder than physics, plus combine partisan politics into the issue and you have a huge scary circus.
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Male 40,728
[quote]Can you smell that bias? Smells like fail[/quote]
No @IrishJesus, that "fail" you smell is the Obama Plan sucking the life out of America`s economy.

Y`all lefties better face the facts sooner rather than later: Obama has failed, Ryan`s plan may be flawed, but it`s WAY better than Obama`s.
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Male 40,728
@Enjin, he was being sarcastic, eh? Get some thicker skin before visiting the interwebs, m-kay?

@Kain1 Oh quit crying liberal baby! Equality means presenting both sides, not just repeating the leftist dogma twice.
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Male 10,440
While I am all for fixing your economy, I found a lot of that... biased. and since I`m not an expert, I`ll have to assume that this is just not a reliable source, even if there may be good ideas within it.

Sorry Klavan, that`s how the cookie crumbles.
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Male 98
First, this is biased.
Second, nether party being represented well/poorly has a plan which would actually solve any perceived economic issues.
Third, the economic system we have is working exactly the way we it is supposed to, poorly, it`s time to scrap it and institute a resource based economy.
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Male 3,330
Not biased at all!
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Male 802
I was kind of chuckling until the racist ending.
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Male 18
I`m so glad China is becoming the new superpower. USA with the kinda of people talking in this video really know how to make something pooty sound great.
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Male 49
@robswindol: everybody I know who is in physics and related fields has said that putting a rocket into space is relatively easy. And "economy" and "economics" are different things.

Now, I`m not a rocket scientist, and I am not an economist, so I can`t say for certain, but in either scenario, it seems you are dealing with thousands of variables. I would also say that the type of person who would be interested in physics would not be so dissimilar from the kind of person who would be interested in economics- there is a ton of math and theory involved in either scenario, so I think the comparison is relatively fair: I don`t want some unqualified non-nice individual prospecting on how we should send a rocket to mars, and honestly, I don`t want some unqualified non-nice individual running his mouth about how the economy should be run.
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Male 1,471
@RobSwindol and Legion5

I am a physics student at a European university, and i must honestly say, Economics is waaay more complicated than relativity and string theory combined.. I`ve only studied very basic economics, and i had a really hard time wrapping my head around it.. Quantom mechanics, NP.. So yes, it`s harder than sending people to the moon...
Though i must say, quite a few of the points in this video seemed to contradict completely, what basic economics i`ve learned....
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Male 1,471
...... Really I-A-B ?... Have the republicans bought you too?... I fear greatly for the fate of the US which will end up being the fate of the world at large.. Thank god the world will end in october so i won`t have to kill my neighbour for some bread..
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Male 2,528
Legion5, if you truly think that economics is more complex than putting a man on the moon, then you are obviously retarded, so I will try to use small words to explain to you they are not in any way comparable.

Economics have been around for literally thousands of years. All you really need is an economy and an individual who spends a nominal amount of time trying to figure out said economy.

So technically, if there were only two people on the face of the earth and one decided to trade goods or services with the other for anything of perceived monetary value, then you have an economy. And if one of those two people tries to figure out exactly what makes that economy work, then you have economics.

Not exactly rocket science is it?

So my question to you is simple. If understanding economics is harder than landing on the moon, why did we only put a man on the moon in the past 50 years? Procrastination?!?
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Male 66
Even if this is partisan, it`s a moot point because trusting elected officials without economics backgrounds in making economic policy decisions is like having an auto mechanic remove a brain tumor.
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Male 49
@auburnjunky: next time you call someone a thing so that they sound legit, maybe make sure they are actually that thing. This guy writes fiction, and it says nowhere what he went to college for or if he even finished. He`s not an economist.

So, the caption should actually be "Lets tell the writer of fiction he`s wrong!"

That aside, why do we want our healthcare system to be on the free market? The free market relies heavily on something called "markup," so when we pay for a surgery, we are also paying so that the hospital has a surplus of dollars. Insurance, as a concept, is basically socialist anyway, but again, we are paying a premium so that the industry has a surplus of dollars, and they get to determine whether or not they`d really like to help us.
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Male 2,384
bias much?
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Male 907
He`s right. The guy who wrote the subtitle is wrong.
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Male 438
alibi19, Your statements are ridiculous. Economics is an incredibly complex area of expertise. To the point where it requires arguably more expertise than landing a man on the moon.

Every argument I have ever seen about economics by a non-economist has been unimaginably idiotic. I`m not sure why members of the general public feel the need to comment on these complex issues. To anyone with remotely any expertise on the subject any argument by the general public or in the popular news media is so painfully false it`s like listening to a young child explain how the Apollo space program worked, except instead of being cute, it`s frightening.

Imagine if you will that you asked a group of young children with extremely rudimentary knowledge of space craft design to then design a set of technical proposals to send a man to Mars. The mission would likely end in a funeral service.

So please, for the sake of sanity, please stop commenting, it`s frightening.

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Male 12
Some hyperbole in there, but you guys should probably do something aboot that crazy debt of yours , eh?
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Male 483
Can you smell that bias? Smells like fail.
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Male 199
Fearmonger.
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Male 438
As a professional economic analyst I should point out that this video is patently false in virtually everything it says. In fact it flies straight in the face of a vast number of economic principle well established in academic study.
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Male 73
Was this video partisan? Yes. Is this video devoid of any useful information? No. The fact of the matter is Obama`s Keynesian strategy has failed horribly and now we have a ton of debt and we are one supply shock away from severe stagflation (although to be honest Keynesian economics have never really worked). We need to encourage saving and investing rather than handouts and bailouts. This is done through the Ryan plan. Yes, Ryan`s plan needs alot of work, but its by far our best shot.
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Male 3,207
I had to laugh when this goofball claimed the one plan would encourage competition and keep prices low.We already have plenty of competition,while the insurance companies and business driven hospital/corporations collude to keep prices high.I could not believe what is charged here in the States when I came back.Bottom line:Politicians take lobbyist money-these are the folks they look out for,not the citizens.Democrat or Republican,it makes no difference-they are all crooks.
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Male 181
Hmm. Both sides are presented so factually and fairly. I think it would help me decide if Klaven would give a clue to where HE stands as a professional economist.

Just kidding: it`s actually just partisan bullpoo! Joke`s on you, people capable of thinking for yourselves!
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Male 17
He is not a professional economist.
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Male 762
Well, lets take this "professional economist`s" arguments for what they are... simply straw man fallacies.
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Male 10,338
Link: Klavan`s Economic Smackdown: Paul Ryan Vs. Barack [Rate Link] - Now here`s a topic for a healthy debate. Let`s tell the professional economist he`s wrong everybody!
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