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Category: Misc
Date: 06/27/11 02:27 PM

203 Responses to God Will Destroy America Because Of Gay Marriage?

  1. Profile photo of kitteh9lives
    kitteh9lives Female 70 & Over
    8044 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:32 pm
    Link: God Will Destroy America Because Of Gay Marriage? - Pat Robertson`s Reaction to this weekend`s legalization of gay marriage in New York State.
  2. Profile photo of techgeek07
    techgeek07 Male 30-39
    2593 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:44 pm
    The Romans and Greeks lasted long enough
  3. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2349 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:46 pm
    Like anyone with a double digit IQ gives two dry sh:ts what that stupid old fart thinks...
  4. Profile photo of noxert323
    noxert323 Male 18-29
    226 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:46 pm
    gays will rape angels.
    this is why homosexuals have a bad rap.
  5. Profile photo of TR-Wolf
    TR-Wolf Male 18-29
    1557 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm
    It wasn`t homosexuality that was the sin it was rape and violence, plus Lot offered his daughters to the rapists... And if it was because there was homosexuality going on in that town, why is San Francisco not a smouldering pile of ash?
  6. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    Pat Robertson is the Devil incarnate.
  7. Profile photo of Revolutioniz
    Revolutioniz Male 18-29
    911 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:54 pm
    Close-minded people in power like this man are what`s corruption our nation. Can`t wait till i`m done with schooling so i can pack up and move to Europe..
  8. Profile photo of teq78
    teq78 Male 30-39
    216 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:57 pm
    hehehehehhehehe old people are funny!!!
  9. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 2:59 pm
    LOL- "not one single civilization has survived that has embraced homosexuality." That`s because civilizations, like everything in the Universe, are impermanent. Every civilization, like every individual, is born and eventually dies. So yeah, every civilization that embraces homosexuality will come to an end. And so will every civilization that reviles homosexuality.
  10. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:00 pm
    Here`s God`s chance to treat NY like Sodom, I`m waiting... Has Pat Robertson or his flock ever heard of The Netherlands? There`s one example that destroys his whole use of the word "never". So I gotta imagine that anything that pisses Robertson off has to be good for our country because that dumb-ass is just a rabble rouser.
  11. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:00 pm
    how will we as humans be able to survive if we can`t even respect two men or womens wishes to marry
  12. Profile photo of Lolboy
    Lolboy Male 70 & Over
    798 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:02 pm
    "In history there`s never been a civilization ever in history that has embraced homosexuality and turned away from traditional fidelity, traditional marriage, traditional child rearing and has survived."

    Well that`s only true because multitudes of civilizations have not survived, period. Many civilizations also do not permit women to have the freedoms which we do, so I`m guessing he believes we`re doomed for that as well.

    "Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed; then Eve. And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression. Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety." (1 Timothy 2:11-15)
  13. Profile photo of scallywagger
    scallywagger Male 18-29
    13 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:06 pm
    ummm... there hasn`t been a single civilization that has lasted forever, ever in all of history despite any beliefs any of them had. with that said there were many powerful civilizations in which homosexual tendencies were not judged to be evil: Sparta and Rome being 2 great examples
  14. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1793 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:17 pm
    He will die soon and god will bless us...
  15. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:19 pm
    Does ANYONE take Pat Robertson seriously?
  16. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36695 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    Damn fags! What the hell were they thinking!
    Trying to take responsability for each others debts and taxes!
    Trying to live quiet, moral, suburban lives!

    silly faggots. dix are for chicks

  17. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:23 pm
    "not one single civilization has survived that has embraced homosexuality."

    Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, and Sweden, before we even get into partials, and compromises and civil unions.

    But not counting nations that have survived, Pat`s right, none have survived. NONE I tell you!
  18. Profile photo of hoodafakizit
    hoodafakizit Male 40-49
    353 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:23 pm
    If their Jeebus ever did come back, people like Pat Robertson would string him up for being "too liberal"
  19. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:24 pm
    No civilisation has survived, regardless of what they did or didn`t do.

    What an arsebrain this guy is.

    But hey, let`s play his game with him!

    When it comes to the development of civilisation, Rome is one of the most important parts. It had a massive influence in promoting civilisation over a huge area.

    For centuries, homosexuality was fairly normal in Rome. There were social and political implications for men because "receiving" was seen as being too passive to be suitable for a virile Roman man, but they could be overcome even for a career in politics, where being badmouthed by your opponents was the norm.

    During that time, Rome thrived immensely, going from a small farming and trading town to an empire straddling three continents.

    Rome then embraced Christianity, which put an end to the tolerance of homosexuality.

    Rome then collapsed rapidly.

    By Pat`s "logic", Christianity causes the collaps
  20. Profile photo of marcus2
    marcus2 Male 13-17
    677 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:29 pm
    "not one single civilization has survived that has embraced homosexuality."

    What about the Ancient Greeks? They used homosexual intercourse for pleasure, and hetro purely to reproduce.
  21. Profile photo of Buzzard250
    Buzzard250 Male 18-29
    342 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:32 pm
    Why did they have to bring jeebus into everything non-jeebus related in our government.
  22. Profile photo of Kaylen226
    Kaylen226 Female 18-29
    114 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:36 pm
    I know better than to hit play on this in order to keep my inner rage at bay. Thanks for the posts tho, they definitely help :)
  23. Profile photo of massivekiduk
    massivekiduk Male 30-39
    50 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:47 pm
    oh well he`ll be dead soon
  24. Profile photo of paddy215
    paddy215 Male 18-29
    1677 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:47 pm
    "What about the Ancient Greeks? They used homosexual intercourse for pleasure, and hetro purely to reproduce."

    First of all that second part is ridiculously untrue. Secondly, theres a reason its called ancient Greece, i.e. that particular civilisation is long gone. Don`t make stupid arguments against what he`s saying, his own words are enough, just ignore what he says, give him his medication in mushed up banana, and then send him back to the home.
  25. Profile photo of Sachi001
    Sachi001 Male 30-39
    599 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:51 pm
    I suspect Jesus has been crapping on the USA for a very long time. Especially with pat at the helm. Hmm... I wonder what Jesus thinks about condoning assassination Pat? STFU Pat you freaking Constantine wannabe. You are no where near righteousness and speaking for the Savior.
  26. Profile photo of wickedsngr
    wickedsngr Female 18-29
    457 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:58 pm
    Pat Robertson is nucking futs! I`m a Christian with fairly liberal views. I believe in God, I believe that the Old Testament laws were put into place for a reason that I don`t claim to comprehend. The part that everyone seems to forget is the place in the New Testament where Jesus died on the cross for all mankind so that we wouldn`t have to live by such strict dogma anymore.

    Whether or not you believe in Christianity or any religion, I`m not judging. It`s not my place. The point is just this. Love one another. That`s it. That is the only thing that should matter. All this BS about gay marriage, and God destroying America because we`ve begun to embrace it is ridiculous.
  27. Profile photo of Justin9235
    Justin9235 Male 18-29
    1582 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:59 pm
    Can`t tell if trolling, or just stupid
  28. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 3:59 pm
    wow, ignorant bullsh*t.
  29. Profile photo of wickedsngr
    wickedsngr Female 18-29
    457 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:01 pm
    My view is this: Instead of bitching and moaning that gay marriage will destroy the institution of marriage, how about focusing on the divorce rate of heterosexual marriage. Until we can get OUR act together, let them do what they want!
  30. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:03 pm
    If the Bible has taught me anything it`s that God is petty and vindictive and not worthy of veneration even if he did exist. Remember when Jesus said his new commandment was to love one another? Neither does Pat.
  31. Profile photo of kittehdee29
    kittehdee29 Female 18-29
    803 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:07 pm

  32. Profile photo of caduceo13
    caduceo13 Male 18-29
    76 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:08 pm
    If no civilization survived for embracing homosexuality, let`s have old good man to man / girls only action till the end of the world! Armaggedon bisexual orgy?
  33. Profile photo of phoneybone
    phoneybone Male 18-29
    1744 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:17 pm
    See, I hate assf.cks like this d!ck. I`m a conservative, but I am NOT this guy. This guy just does nothing and gives nothing productive to society.

    Piece of garbage religious zealot f.cksticks
  34. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:18 pm
    Yeah Pat Robertson - there also has never been an empire which turned to fractional reserve banking (or more fundamentally, the debasement of their currency by any measure) and survived either.

    Unless you`re talking about the inevitability of bankers and politicians sucking eachother`s dicks - then maybe you have a point.
  35. Profile photo of kangoala
    kangoala Male 18-29
    702 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:42 pm
    Hold on. Wait just one second old man. Sodomy means anal AND oral sex. When was the last time anyone made a straight, Christ-loving porno that didn`t have a bit of the old `fluffy fluffy`?
    And on that note, we have the perfect area to watch for signs of rapture; France! If France goes to hell, peeps be needin` to stop with the sucky sucky.
  36. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:42 pm
    Hey IAB people. I`d venture a guess that nearly all of you are against what was said in this video.

    So, in the interests of entertainment, instead of posting videos like this, let`s post videos criticizing videos like this.

    How about it?
  37. Profile photo of Subushie
    Subushie Male 18-29
    1646 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 4:59 pm
    I <3 listening to stupid people. It sparks a tremendous feeling of intelligence that I can only get listening to idiots talk.
  38. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 5:08 pm
    I`m sorry but I don`t believe that Jesus died on the cross for all mankind so that we wouldn`t have to live by the strict dogma of the Old Testament. I`m pretty sure he died because he pretended to be the son of God.
  39. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36695 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 5:10 pm
  40. Profile photo of I-See-U
    I-See-U Male 18-29
    354 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 5:25 pm
    Gerry10f1


    I was just thinking that.
  41. Profile photo of Nobbinz
    Nobbinz Male 30-39
    106 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 5:36 pm
    Why`s it always the assumption that `sodomy` is solely a homosexual act?
  42. Profile photo of erikthevikin
    erikthevikin Male 30-39
    757 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 6:01 pm
    It takes straight people to make gay people, doesn`t it?
  43. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 6:44 pm
    It sure does erikthevikin. Two wonderful straight conservatives made me.
  44. Profile photo of MCMXCIII
    MCMXCIII Male 18-29
    356 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 7:04 pm
    People like him will destroy American faster than "god" anyway.
  45. Profile photo of rammo34
    rammo34 Male 18-29
    1083 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 7:07 pm
    Master troll.
  46. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8306 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 7:09 pm
    "There has never been a society that survived that practiced homosexuality"

    Um.... maybe because it takes a man and a woman to make a baby? So even if there was, they`d die out in one generation? Maybe ya think?
  47. Profile photo of lytle_lytle
    lytle_lytle Male 18-29
    208 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 8:07 pm
    Dude, Sodem sounds like such an awesome party city. Need to check priceline for hotel rates.
  48. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2345 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 8:09 pm
    Sodom was destoryed ONLY because they tried to rape the angels. God did not destroy the town due to what they were doing. it was only when they threatened the angels that poo got real.
  49. Profile photo of lytle_lytle
    lytle_lytle Male 18-29
    208 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 8:36 pm
    Well, if only those angles would put out a little more.
  50. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 9:16 pm
    Well, it was nice to know you America
  51. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 9:25 pm
    jamie76: You are forgetting that God warned Lot that he was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot tried to bargain with God to save them if he could find 10 righteous men, which Lot could not find.

    So your claim that "Sodom was destoryed ONLY because they tried to rape the angels." is not true. God was going to destroy the cities before Lot went there. God just wanted Lot to know that there were no more righteous men left there, after Lot rescued his relatives.
  52. Profile photo of crudson
    crudson Male 18-29
    589 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 9:36 pm
    A man can sodomize a woman. Nothing gay about that. It`s actually quite pleasurable,
  53. Profile photo of WickedSteak
    WickedSteak Male 18-29
    319 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 9:44 pm
    This show makes me laugh. I`m glad when it comes on because the stupid stuff they say is actually pretty funny. Pat Robertson especially. He`s always got something wacky on his mind.
  54. Profile photo of carmium
    carmium Female 50-59
    6381 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 10:03 pm
    Perhaps Pat Robertson is so afraid of sodomy because he`s such a huge as*hole himself. Gotta be a relationship there somewhere.
  55. Profile photo of moomatz
    moomatz Male 40-49
    64 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 10:13 pm
    Two words for Robertson Just Go
  56. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 10:21 pm
    I thought angels didn`t have genitals? How were the people of Sodom and Gomorrah expecting to rape them? Seems to be a big hole in the story. Aside from that, Angels showing up on earth would be a huge event in peoples lives and we`re supposed to believe that the first thought is to rape them? That`s pretty lazy writing.
  57. Profile photo of xCYBERDYNEx
    xCYBERDYNEx Male 18-29
    4903 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 10:57 pm
    "They tried to rape Angels"! ROFLMFAO!!!

    @markust123, ever heard of a mouth?
  58. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 11:32 pm
    You mean... you were raped?

    Well... at first, yes.
  59. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 11:56 pm
    Most.
    Immoral.
    Man.
    Ever.
  60. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8306 posts
    June 27, 2011 at 11:58 pm
    > lytle_lytle
    > Well, if only those angles would put out a little more

    Then they`d be OBTUSE angles. Oh wait, you meant...
  61. Profile photo of jonnycake63
    jonnycake63 Male 18-29
    146 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 12:30 am
    It`s not rape if you yell surprise. Clearly the fun-loving citizens of Sodom forgot this one simple rule when they were dealing with the angles.
  62. Profile photo of Chojiro
    Chojiro Male 18-29
    247 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 12:48 am
    just chillin with god, rapin some animals
  63. Profile photo of Izaq
    Izaq Male 30-39
    173 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 1:34 am
    Good point that no society that does allow gay marriages has survived!

    Because that kind of logic is always true.
    "No society that allows <insert random stuff here> has survived."

    Because either the society still exists, or it stopped existing.

    Gotta love Christian logic. Infallible and tragically humorous.

  64. Profile photo of jravity911
    jravity911 Male 18-29
    23 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 2:30 am
    god will destroy america...tommorrow..i mean next week...no wait next year...
  65. Profile photo of lololeela
    lololeela Female 30-39
    327 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 3:50 am
    He forgot to mention that when the men of Sodom came to rape the angels, Lot (God`s prophet) offered up his two daughters to the men to rape instead. I think the angels stopped him from doing it, but it just goes to show how immoral God`s "chosen" can be.
  66. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 4:21 am
    I`m just not going to bother watching this. I already know it`ll make me angry. Why ruin a perfectly beautiful morning?
  67. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 4:22 am
    Um.... maybe because it takes a man and a woman to make a baby? So even if there was, they`d die out in one generation? Maybe ya think?
    No, that would be a society that practices ONLY homosexuality, and such a society has never existed for the reason you state.
  68. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    822 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 4:26 am
    What about SPARTAAAA?
  69. Profile photo of ghettoelf
    ghettoelf Male 18-29
    55 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 5:17 am
    The funny thing is that the crime of Sodom was supposedly cannibalism, not "sodomy".
  70. Profile photo of jimbro
    jimbro Male 40-49
    184 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 6:26 am
    Pat Robertson: the keeper of all that is good and holy. Also: the man who uses slave labor in his diamond mine in south africa.
  71. Profile photo of trello
    trello Male 30-39
    131 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 6:29 am
    Sounds like an unbeatable deal for gay couples, and non-americans! Sign me up!!

    And, well spotted every single poster who spotted that the sin of Sodomy had nothing to do with bumsex. The association arose from the Marquis De Sade, not from the bible at all. :-)
  72. Profile photo of funnehkitteh
    funnehkitteh Male 18-29
    528 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 8:00 am
    i`m gonna rape angels if by the off chance i get into heaven.. also i`d probably get raped by this pat roberton guy if i go to this heaven place
  73. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 8:02 am
    Genesis 19:4-5 "But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."

    `Know them` meant to have sex with them. The bible is very clear on that point.
  74. Profile photo of Luniz82
    Luniz82 Male 18-29
    588 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 8:08 am
    LOL Old people are funny. When they are all dead and gone and our kids run this world it will be a much better place with much less hate.... I say BRING IT ON GOD!
  75. Profile photo of Luniz82
    Luniz82 Male 18-29
    588 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 8:12 am
    Now tell us the story of The Lord of the Rings I like that one better. Cooler bad guys. How I love fiction.
  76. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36695 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 8:27 am
    The story of Sodom has nothing to do with homosexuality.

    Ezekiel 16:49 - "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. "

    The crowd wants to rape the strangers {angels} so this "Holy" guy Lot offers them his daughters instead. WTF?????!!! But the crowd insists on the the new meat so God destroys the city.

    I agree, raping angels is a bad thing. But the story never condems queerdom. As for Lot offering his daughters up.... Bad Parenting Award!

    The false connection between Sodom and homosexuality didn`t exist until the late 12th Century when it was proposed in a work by Albertus Magnus titled "Summa Theologia". (Magnus was the teacher of Thomas Aquinas who also wrote a book with the same title.)

  77. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 8:30 am
    `Know them` meant to have sex with them


    Odd interpretation of yet a culturally motivated mistranslation.
  78. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36695 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 8:37 am
    Here`s a nice Gay Couple from the Bible. David and Jonathan.

    1 Samuel 18:1,3 "And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul . . . And Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul." covenant as in marriage?

    Then Jonathan gets nekkid for David: 1 Samuel 18:4 "Jonathan divested himself of the mantle he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his military dress, and his sword, his bow and his belt."

    But then Saul finds out and gets pissed: 1 Samuel 20:30 "Then Saul`s anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother`s nakedness?"

    OnlyGod can knit a soul, I`d say it had His stamp of approval.
  79. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:10 am
    Gerry1of1 & Cajun247: The `angels` looked like men, the bible made that clear, the sodomites wanted to have sex with the new men they saw, the sodomites did not know they were angles until the angels revealed themselves and blinded them. The sodomites did not want the women, even though they were virgins, That`s pretty clear evidence that the sodomites were homosexuals.
  80. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36695 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:22 am
    CrakrJak - correct, the gang rape in question is a gay-gang rape. But does it condem homosexuality or does it condem Rape?

    Jesus referred to Sodom as "their sin of inhospitality". He didn`t say "those dirty fags". Sounds like it`s a condemnation of rape to me.
  81. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:22 am
    Gerry1of1: You are neglecting to mention that both David and Jonathan were both young boys, and as young boys they developed a brotherly relationship, that was NOT sexual.

    Jonathan was the son of the king, Saul. Jonathan was a prince and his father Saul was angry with him for giving David his princely attire and sword. Jonathan knew that David would ascend to the throne after his father Saul died, and thus Jonathan was placing his friend above himself.

    True friends often do this, It`s sad that you did not get that message out of that bible passage instead of the perverted one you decided to make out of it.
  82. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:25 am
    Gerry1of1: The word Fag didn`t even exist in biblical times, neither did the words homosexual or many others used today that label that behavior.
  83. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:29 am
    Btw, Just for clarity, I don`t like Pat Robertson at all, Mainly because he`s said some stupid sh|t about Israel but other things as well.

    So please, Don`t get the idea that I`m defending him.
  84. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:32 am
    "Gerry1of1 & Cajun247: The `angels` looked like men, the bible made that clear, "

    OK so the angels LOOKED like men. LOOKED. But thats just the face. The bible doesnt say that while flying, those robes they were wearing were very provocative. I mean, they couldnt help themselves. Then, your all loving god, the forgiving god, decides to KILL everyone. Thats right your vengful, evil, bipolar god MURDERS his own subjects.

    Satan just offers you an eternity of sin.

    But by all means, you keep on preaching that stew that is pouring from your keyboard. You go on condemning other people and following a god that would rather kill you than help you. While doing all this he is laughing at your prayers granting ONLY the prays that will hurt someone else in the course of helping you.

  85. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:37 am
    Oye crackr....while you try to post a vieled insult to Gerry about the "Pervers definition of the passage" or some poo like that, maybe you should read the WHOLE passage instead of doing what most people do and skimming. Allow me to highlight what you missed.

    "do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother`s nakedness?"

    This tells me, and is pretty CLEAR about it, that the boys CHOSE each other`s body and the son chose because maybe he saw his mother naked? Maybe that disgusted him.

    You can try all you want, but there are characters in that story that were gay. Pure and simple. You can try insults, you can try wars, Hell you can make like Magicarp and use struggle, but the facts remain the same.
  86. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:45 am
    Steelgrid: Wow man, Bitter much ?

    I haven`t `condemned` anyone, All I did was clarify some bible passages. But go right on ahead and keep condemning all Christians there bud.

    You`ve got a rather sick and twisted view of God and Christians. Christians do not pray for the misfortune for others, at least not the ones I know.

    Perhaps those WBC idiots do, but they are barely a few dozen people or so. That`s no reason to judge all Christians, or God for that matter, as evil.

    IT sounds to me like you`ve been hurt by a `Christian(s)`, If so I apologize, Most every Christian I know is a loving caring person that would give you the coat off their back or their the last dollar in their pocket to help a person in need.
  87. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:45 am
    "So your claim that "Sodom was destoryed ONLY because they tried to rape the angels." is not true. God was going to destroy the cities before Lot went there. God just wanted Lot to know that there were no more righteous men left there, after Lot rescued his relatives."

    So again I see this bullpoo. You people worship a god that Murders? Hey do yo know what other leader kills his subjects when they dont obey, Saddam Hussein, or Mayybe the N Korean Leader, or perhaps the leader of Syria, or Sudan, or Libya.....

    You getting my F ucking hint here?

    Your god is a megalomaniac. He is bipolar. He is evil. He is a dictator. He is everything that the United Nations is trying to stop. by the bible`s own words, your god is a terrorist. he blows up those that do not follow his religious beliefs.

    I think we need to do a Seal team 6 mission and take out God. Its the only true way to preserve a peaceful exsistance.
  88. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36695 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:46 am
    CrakrJak: Obviously, Jesus didn`t say "fag". DUH. you know what I was saying in my flip manner. He never referred to homosexual in any way but DID refer to Sodom as the "sin of inhosipitality". doesn`t that sort of tell you the story is NOT anti gay? Whouldn`t God Jr. say so? There were words for homosexual then but He doesn`t use them. In Jewish culture "hospitality" was a HUGE deal. Hebrew law demanded it. THAT was their sin.

    When Sodom is referred to as in Ezekial, it`s always the sins of pride and inhospitality...not their "sin of man lieing with man" or however you want to phrase it.

    Dude.... your teachers got it wrong and told you wrongly. Sodom is not about gay people. Just as they got wrong about Mary Magdalene, she was not a prostitute. Nothing says she was. When cleansed of sin fornication was not among them.
  89. Profile photo of elderban
    elderban Male 30-39
    390 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:47 am
    Sodom was destroyed by an asteroid, not "god".
  90. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:48 am
    "You`ve got a rather sick and twisted view of God and Christians. Christians do not pray for the misfortune for others, at least not the ones I know. "

    Dont confuse your petty insult as truth. You can spin the actions all you want, but your god is more evil than the Satan you are bred to fear. If it is Satan`s fault that Homosexuals can love each other, that people can think for themselves, that a society can accept a MIX of people and their beliefs, then I think you are worshiping the wrong deity.
  91. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:49 am
    Steelgrid: Again, your reading an accusation made by Saul about his son Jonathan, One that wasn`t true bye the way. The bible is full of people that were falsely accused of one thing or another, An accusation is not `truth` especially so in this case.
  92. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:50 am
    @CrakrJak

    Your clarification doesn`t avoid the fact that you`ve read was a culturally motivated mistranslation.
  93. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:51 am
    "Steelgrid: Again, your reading an accusation made by Saul about his son Jonathan, One that wasn`t true bye the way. The bible is full of people that were falsely accused of one thing or another, An accusation is not `truth` especially so in this case."

    So are you telling me something that I already know? That the Bible is full of lies? Well then, thats something we agree on.
  94. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:57 am
    Easy question....If GOD liked to show up and wipe out populations for sin, where is he now?

    Where is he while children get raped and their parents paid for it? Where is he when people are being lied to and scammed out of their hard earned money? Where is he when little children are married off at a young age?

    Oh thats right....he is watching over the CHURCHES that perform these crimes.
  95. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:08 am
    Gerry1of1: There really was no word for `homosexual` or `gay sex` other than perhaps the word abomination, wickedness or the reference to Sodom and Gomorrah.

    It wasn`t talked about very much because of what happened there. Just as the words Hiroshima and Nagasaki bring up thoughts of atomic bombs, most people don`t bring that up in conversation very often.

    Steelgrid: If God hated us soooooo much then why would he send us his son to die for our sins ? God sacrificed for us, so that we might be saved, That`s not hate, that`s love.

    I don`t hate homosexuals, nor do I fear Satan, Christ conquered all sin, everyone`s sin, He paid the cost of it all with his blood.

    Sorry but your false narrative of an evil God is not coming from the truth of the bible.
  96. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36695 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:11 am
    CrakrJak: If God disaproved of homosexuality, why does he make so many gays?

    I know that many non-gay people are very confidant in their belief that gay people are not born gay...they are wrong. They have no basis for that belief at all, they just made it up.

    From one who knows - we ARE born that way.
  97. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:22 am
    Ok God we`re waiting.. What`s the problem God? Little slow on the trigger I see. How come you haven`t flooded The Netherlands yet? Their man made dikes too tough for you? You`re letting Pat Robertson and CJ down. Ignore this situation much longer and they may question your existence like most normal people do.
  98. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:23 am
    Steelgrid: I guess you expect God to be like superman, just swoop in and save everyone from harm ? Don`t get me wrong, I do wish we lived in a world without sin, But we don`t. Sin is not the fault of God or Satan, It`s the fault of mankind.

    Blaming God because he gave us freewill is stupid, Would you rather be a robot only doing what you are programmed to do or a human being with the freedom to both good and evil ? God gave us the choice of what we do with our lives, If we harm others that`s our fault not God`s.

    I sense a lot of anger in you, you`ve built up much hatred for God and Christians, constructed a rather elaborate world to explain the problems of life. All I can say is that your hate will lead to more suffering, I`ll hope and pray that you someday choose the path of love and truth.
  99. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:26 am
    madest: I see you`ve came trolling along again. Where you trying to make a joke about lesbians with the `dikes` comment ? If so that`s pretty awful man.
  100. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:32 am
    "Steelgrid: If God hated us soooooo much then why would he send us his son to die for our sins ? God sacrificed for us, so that we might be saved, That`s not hate, that`s love."

    Dude....seriously?

    First off, if your god was so rightious, wouldnt he have sacrificed himself? Ok so he sacrificed his son. What did that REALLY accomplish? So he sent his son, so he raped a woman to get him, so he dicided to MURDER his son. Who was he sacrificing jesus too anyway? Does god worship Satan? Does Satan require human sacrifice? What twisted cult has your god gotten into that they require LIVE human sacrifices.

    You can chalk up my views as "Oh you must have been hurt", but i would expect nothing more from a mindless sheep not willing to look at the hypocritism that is ANY jesus based religion.

    Isnt god supposed to be superman? Cmon if he can flood the world, call meteors fromt he sky and make a Zombie out of his son, maybe he can fix PEDOPRIES
  101. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:35 am
    I mean really. If I called Christians, Catholics, or any other Jesus Based religion, the BORG, and I replaced all churches with CUBES, and instead of handing out bibles they all wandered around saying "Resistance is Futile" and then wrote all that in the bible? Do you think people would blindly follow it any less?

    What if two borg needed to repair another with their parts? Do you think the BORG would discriminate against two male parts? Hell for an intergalactic biomechanical menace, they are more accepting than your.....God.
  102. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:38 am
    Gerry1of1: we ARE born that way.

    The evidence refutes that, The latest scientific studies say it`s a mother nurturing/ birth order causality, and in some cases trauma is involved, like molestation or incest. Either way it`s not genetic.

    If it was genetic a cure could be found and applied before the baby was born, If it`s origin is nurture or trauma then it`s a psychological problem and a lifestyle choice.

    I know that gays often convince themselves they were "born that way" as a psychological defense mechanism, not much different then abused children start believing it was their fault for the abuse they received. People are willing to believe a lot of things for the sake of their ego, that`s a well known fact.
  103. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:39 am
    "Blaming God because he gave us freewill is stupid, Would you rather be a robot only doing what you are programmed to do or a human being with the freedom to both good and evil ? God gave us the choice of what we do with our lives, If we harm others that`s our fault not God`s."

    And yet do you not believe that your god "Punishes" for free will? Why is it god`s will when something good happenes, but its the devil`s work when something bad happens? But yet here you are talking about the "gift" of free choice. So you are saying that we should be grateful to god for NOT enslaving us? Seriously you are like a dog that gets beat. You keep coming back because you dont know any other way.

    maybe you should go thank a cop for not throwing you in Jail for eating a hamburger on a friday.

    SHEEP!!!
  104. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:44 am
    "The evidence refutes that, The latest scientific studies say it`s a mother nurturing/ birth order causality, and in some cases trauma is involved, like molestation or incest. Either way it`s not genetic."

    Are you using science to defend religion? Seriously pick a side. Oh and uh, dude some people ARE born that way. Guess what, this may be a shocker to you, but not everyone is born a Male or a Female. You need to remember that and stop blindly following your religion. Parts can be mixed, even BRAINS can get mixed. Attractions can be different. Just because your bibles tells you what the norm is DOESNT mean thats the norm.

    What if you lose your "man parts". Suddenly surgery makes you a woman. Do you not exsist? You lose the testosterone and other chemicals and your body changes, guess what, science is suddenly telling you that YOU are a woman. That is based of religious classifications. If you would fight the title that you are a woman, you are a hy
  105. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:44 am
    Steelgrid: Wow, Your worldview is quite a piece of work there, Did you build that delusion all on your own or did you need help ?

    Seriously man, Comparing Christians to the Borg ? Wow, I`m not even going to engage with you on that. That level of insanity, requires professional help that I`m not qualified to give.
  106. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:49 am
    I will by all means defend gay right. I am completely for racial equality. But when I see two men kiss it is wierd and I can never date a black woman becuase my brain tells me I am not attracted to them. It is not something I fight. It is not something thats "Bred" into me. this is how MY personal brain reacts to situations. the same thing goes for some homosexuality. You see a member of the same sex and you are attracted. You do not know why, you do not make the CHOICE that they are attractive, you just feel that way. It happens. This type of action is common, happens all the time, and guess what, it is a reaction that people are BORN with.

    Oh and if uhhhh, gay babies only come from gay people raising them, then where did the first gay person come from?

    They came from your God.
  107. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:51 am
    Yes Crackr, you can deny it all you want. Yet every word I speak is true. You can bend it, twist it, spin it, whatever you want to do with the truth, but th matter remains.

    you are following a god who gave you a savior that He aquired through Rape and then raised as the world`s first Zombie to drat a prostitute and stink up the world with hiss rotting carcase for 3 days.

    Congrats.
  108. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:55 am
    As far as comparing to the Borg.....Let me show you soemthing....

    Past:Chritians - Join us or Die (The Crusades)

    Present:Muslims - Join us or Die (The Jihad)

    Future:Borg - Resistance is Futile(7 of 9)

    So yes, comparing you to the borg is very easy.
  109. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:59 am
    Steelgrid: But when I see two men kiss it is wierd and I can never date a black woman becuase my brain tells me I am not attracted to them.

    Then by the liberal definitions of the words, You are admitting to being both racist and a homophobe.

    Btw, Someday your brain might tell you something different, then what will you do ? Claim you were "born that way" ?

    It is a choice, Not the kind of choice as in "What brand of bread am I going to buy at the supermarket ?" kind of choice, but it is a choice nonetheless.
  110. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:05 am
    "Then by the liberal definitions of the words, You are admitting to being both racist and a homophobe. "

    No you schmuck. Now you are just stirring poo to stir it. This means that I am not attracted to men. Its not something I am used to seeing. As far as a black woman, again, i am not ATTRACTED to dark skin. It has nothing to do with race. it could be a really really tanned white girl and I would STILL not be attracted. Its how my brain is wired.

    The same goes in the opposite direction. A homosexual man or woman is NOT attracted to the opposite sex. True there are those that CHOOSE the opposite sex. But i have no doubt that some homosexuals are still very scared of the public so they CHOOSE a member of the opposite sex for appearances.

    But again, good attempt at trying to turn my words around on me. But you fail.

    If my preferences were based upon how I was raised, it could be a choice, but I was raised with a Black dad, and I have Gay frie
  111. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:06 am
    Steelgrid: As long as you keep referring to Christ as a `zombie`, I can see there is no use in talking to you about it further.

    Keep hating on Christians and God if it makes you feel better, Your ego and pride may fall someday, Then who will you call on ?
  112. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:09 am
    Steelgrid Now you are just stirring poo to stir it.

    Pot meet kettle. You came in here determined to stir the sh|t, now you complain about getting some on you. LOL!
  113. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:22 am
    "Steelgrid: As long as you keep referring to Christ as a `zombie`, I can see there is no use in talking to you about it further. "

    Lets see, Murdered, Body Mutilated (Lacerations on head, deep puncture into liver, hands and feet rendered useless), then ressurected with full use of apendages and organs = ZOMBIE

    "Then who will you call on ?"

    Does it really matter? Do you think who I call on will react any differently than you call on? We all DIE in the end.

    "Pot meet kettle. You came in here determined to stir the sh|t, now you complain about getting some on you. LOL!"

    No i didnt come in here to stir poo. I didnt come in here and make false statements just to make them. Again you fail. And again you attempt to take the subject elsewhere citing "Not worth it" once you have been proven WRONG without room for argument.

    Fail.
    Fail.
    FAIL.

    SHEEP!!!!
  114. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:25 am
    Oh and uhhhh, BTW, i put Jesus as MURDERED due to the fact that he was killed. If he was sacrificed then god would have been the one to do it. Jesus was abandoned, Murdered, Zombified, then allowed to die again. Real rightious. Sounds more like to me he was the first into hell and SATAN was exposing him to the pains his name would cause for thousands of years down the line.

    Sacrificed indeed.
  115. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:29 am
    Steelgrid: No i didnt come in here to stir poo. I didnt come in here and make false statements just to make them.

    You knew that saying Christ was a `zombie` would stir the sh|t sir, You are a liar and a troll.

    Now go back under your bridge.
  116. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:30 am
    All this debate but the simple fact remains....

    God, no matter the religion, no longer watches over man. When we decided to make a weapon out of the smallest build block of life, when we decided to make animals and humans in test tubes, when we discovered how to clone, how to make our own diseases, how to alter weather and make a living from lightning, that fellow IABers, is when the Gods no longer had any power over us. There is nothing they can do save for ending exsistance, that we can fix, alter, block, or evolve to live.

    god will not destroy, no will they help this planet. We as a people, once we realize the power we hold, have the full power to shape our own destinies. We have the power to CHOOSE when to evolve. We did not become Gods, now it is US that watches the Gods.

    Hows that for some food for thought.
  117. Profile photo of bobclean
    bobclean Male 18-29
    80 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:33 am
    Religious nutters...keeping religious people dumb.

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/


  118. Profile photo of Amurika
    Amurika Male 30-39
    282 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:34 am
    That crusty ol bastard still alive?
  119. Profile photo of Steelgrid
    Steelgrid Male 30-39
    2700 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:35 am
    "Steelgrid: No i didnt come in here to stir poo. I didnt come in here and make false statements just to make them.


    You knew that saying Christ was a `zombie` would stir the sh|t sir, You are a liar and a troll."

    No I was using the very definition of a Zombie. Tell me that he wasnt? He was the living dead. He wasnt built by man,so no Frank. He didnt feed off the flesh of man, so no Vamp. He didnt transform into a hairy thing, so no Lycan. He was the walking dead, a Zombie by all intents and purposes.

    So i am not lying, nor am I trolling for reactions. I dont think he saved anything so I wont call him savior. I could say the late jesus, but that is full of Puns. So zombie it is.

    BTW you did again just wander off the real subject when you have no true merit to stand on.
  120. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36695 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Crakr`s right. Steelgrid`s kinda rude with the `zombie` thing. {although I laughed!}

    Crackr, you can have your faith and I hope you are happy in it and it gives you comfort. But I do object to your faith dictating how I can live my life. That`s my only problem with any religion. And I think most people would say the same thing. But restricting who I can or cannot marry is imposing your values on me. Even if you think your values are justifyable, you are still imposing your will on me. Naturally, I resist that.
  121. Profile photo of nkslover
    nkslover Female 18-29
    30 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 12:12 pm
    lol
  122. Profile photo of ohplease
    ohplease Male 50-59
    567 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 1:33 pm
    Jeez this again? (but Jonathon & David were totally getting it on.)
  123. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 2:12 pm
    If it was genetic a cure could be found and applied before the baby was born, If it`s origin is nurture or trauma then it`s a psychological problem and a lifestyle choice.

    Wow do anything to cure homosexuality, including using obviously invasive methods?
    That IS homophobic.

    BTW
    psychological problem != lifestyle choice

    No one chooses to be bipolar, depressed, or schizophrenic but don`t try even try to lump those with homosexuality. The first three CAN be treated the last one as far your "therapies" go can`t. You try and try again to treat homosexuality only to have 99% failure rate and increased risk of suicide.
  124. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 2:17 pm
    I know how often social conservatives like try to convince themselves "everyone can change" when science says not fu<king possible.

    You keep "reaching out for help" you say even though you have NO scientifically tested and verified means of treating a condition you invented? That isn`t helping bub that`s called pouring gasoline on fire.
  125. Profile photo of noxert323
    noxert323 Male 18-29
    226 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 2:20 pm
    "People are willing to believe a lot of things for the sake of their ego, that`s a well known fact."

    Crakr, you`re absolutely right.

  126. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 2:39 pm
    The evidence refutes that
    What evidence?

    birth order causality
    Now who`s two-faced? First you say there was a problem with this theory and now say it`s what causes it? Also that means they ARE born that way.
  127. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 3:08 pm
    Gerry1of1: There really was no word for `homosexual` or `gay sex`

    While true, that didn`t make it impossible to refer to homosexual sex.

    Or are you arguing that there are no references to homosexual sex anywhere in the OT of the Christian bible? That would be an interesting argument.

    other than perhaps the word abomination, wickedness or the reference to Sodom and Gomorrah.

    `abomination` is not the correct translation of `to`ebah`. Although few Christians know what was actually written, so any old words can be shoved in there and few people would know.

    More importantly, none of the things you refer to are homosexual sex.

    You`re making an obvious logical fallacy:

    Premise: These words refer to something bad.
    Premise: Homosexual sex is something bad.
    Conclusion: These words refer to homosexual sex.

    It`s the "all animals with 4 legs are dogs" thing.
  128. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 3:14 pm
    If it was genetic a cure could be found and applied before the baby was born, If it`s origin is nurture or trauma then it`s a psychological problem and a lifestyle choice.

    Note how CrakrJak`s statement works just as well for religion. No need to change a word.
  129. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 3:14 pm
    Hey Angilion:

    Genesis 19:4-5 "But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."

    `Know them` meant to have sex with them. The bible is very clear on that point.

    Care to clarify for us?
  130. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 3:25 pm
    The reason that gay marriage is loosing its taboo is because people are slowly figuring out that gay people are absolutely born that way. I am living proof. I was raised by fiscal conservatives in a very loving and safe environment. Nothing bad happened to me in my youth. I was not molested nor was I was traumatized. My brother is straight because he was born that way and I am gay because I was born that way. I had zero gay role models growing up. I remember at nine being attracted to Shaun Cassidy and Leif Garrett. This was before I even knew what sex was.

    It hurts when I hear bigots say, "I love the sinner but hate the sin". But the good news is every day there are less and less bigots as people grow and accept gays. Or at least tolerate them.
  131. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    Care to clarify for us?

    Clarify what? The story appears to be about rape. It certainly covers what was originally stated as being the sin of Sodom - inhospitality. It also appears to be a story about how having your daughters gang-raped is a righteous act. It`s not a story that a decent person would use as a moral code.
  132. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 3:50 pm
    Religious Tolerance is a good source regarding Christianity. Here`s a link to part of their coverage of the Sodom and Gomorrah stories.

    Clicky clicky

    There`s more about it on that site, but that`s a good place to start.
  133. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 4:08 pm
    Thank you so much for the link Angilion. I am bookmarking this site. It is refreshing to see a site dedicated to a fair interpretation of the bible. I love that the people running this site are an Atheist, an Agnostic, a Christian, a Wiccan and Zen Buddhist. This combination of beliefs offers a wonderful balance to the research. They are pushing truth not an agenda. Wonderful. Funny how when you take the agenda out of the argument the homosexual part of the Sodom and Gomorrah story falls flat.
  134. Profile photo of jinxiejae
    jinxiejae Female 30-39
    2927 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    im getting so sick of this b.s.
  135. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32834 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm
    Robertson is neither "right-wing" nor "Christian". HE`s a money-lovong freak who will whore himself and his dead Grandama for a DOLLAR!

    Just fyi, eh?.

    Now to look at the comments, expecting the worst...
  136. Profile photo of gHousewater
    gHousewater Male 18-29
    23 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 5:05 pm
    Whew! The lesbians will be okay then...
  137. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 5:57 pm
    5Cats, "Robertson is neither "right-wing" nor "Christian". HE`s a money-lovong freak who will whore himself and his dead Grandama for a DOLLAR!"

    You pretty much gave the description of a Right Wing Christian which Pat Robertson definitely is. But what can I expect from a troll like yourself. To be Christian you kind of need to make an attempt to be Christ like. The only churches and leaders I see attempting to be Christ like are the more accepting and tolerant churches. If a church is promoting judgement and bigotry of any of God`s children than they are not Christian in Jesus`s sense of the word. They are behaving exactly the same as the church leaders Jesus was against. If Jesus is real I bet he is real sad at what mankind has done to his wonderful religion.
  138. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32834 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 6:37 pm
    Um, @markust123, are you blinded by your own bigotry?
    I say: Robertson is not a Christian.
    YOU say: Robertson is not a Christian.
    Yet you accuse me of being a troll? Why? Because I agree with you?

    You chose your battles poorly, grasshopper, and make enemies where friends reside...
  139. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32834 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 6:49 pm
    vv AGAIN with Lot and his daughters.
    @Angilion & others listen up:
    The `lesson` of Lot in this case is: "Obey the law of the Lord".
    Lot had these `guests` stay in his `tent`, m-kay?
    The Law says Lot must protect them while they are his guests.
    A gang comes along and demands that Lot send these `men` out so they can harm them.

    Get it? The Law of GOD says Lot cannot do that.
    So Lot says "rape my daughters insted!"
    There`s no indication that the mob harmed Lots daughters, m-kay?
    Lot SHAMED the crowd, pointing out how stupid their demands were. Just like 5Cats SHAMES IAB by pointing out how stupid SOME commenters are...
    But that`s another story...
  140. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 7:02 pm
    Way to divert 5Cats. But you left out Right-Wing which you said he is not. If you had just said he is not a Christian in your original comment I and many people would have agreed with you. But adding that he is also not Right-Wing (With your history of partisan Right-Wing comments) made me very suspicious of your intentions. Your comment just screamed troll bomb. Not sure how you turned that into me being a bigot. I am curious why you feel Pat Robertson is not Right wing? How many times has he run for the Republican Presidential nomination?
  141. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 7:27 pm
    Thanks, Angilion, that was a great link!
  142. Profile photo of ChaoSSaucE
    ChaoSSaucE Male 18-29
    31 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 7:36 pm
    "There`s never been a civilization ever in history that has embraced homosexuality...and has survived."

    What the heck, that`s like saying "Every civilization that doesn`t exist today has fallen." He might as well have said "There`s never been a civilization ever in history that has embraced bread...and has survived."
  143. Profile photo of kittyloaf
    kittyloaf Male 18-29
    213 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 9:38 pm
    So gay people will rape angels. Maybe this is a sign for the baseball team...
  144. Profile photo of PoopNoodle
    PoopNoodle Male 40-49
    400 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 10:44 pm
    Gay marriage is wrong.
    I don`t care how uncool it is to say it.
  145. Profile photo of Corpsecrank
    Corpsecrank Male 30-39
    930 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:02 pm
    It`s not an issue of wright or wrong though. This is an issue about religion effecting politics which isn`t supposed to happen but does. If we had separation of church and state we would not have this issue right now. The fact that people even have to vote on this issue is an issue of it`s own.
  146. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:24 pm
    PoopNoodle = Sh*t for brains
  147. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 28, 2011 at 11:39 pm
    Cajun247: Care to clarify for us?

    What straight man would refuse the offer of sex with a virgin woman, hmmm ? Not a single one of those men in the crowd, at Lot`s door, wanted the women, they wanted "The new men".

    Case closed.
  148. Profile photo of razbitom
    razbitom Male 40-49
    913 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 12:10 am
    there isn`t one single civilization that has survived after "embracing" homosexuality?
    define your terms, sir. what is a civilization? what do you consdier to be the survival thereof?
    in case you haven`t noticed *no* civilization survives intact for any duration regardless of their views on sexuality.
    the samoan culture has existed for thousands of years and they not only openly "embrace" homosexuality but have the fa`afafine... considered a third gender, essentially.

    odd how they`re still around. your god doesn`t get around to the south seas much?
  149. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 12:41 am
    If Sodom was being punished for the sin of inhospitality then it would make more since that they wanted to murder them. The girls could stay but the men couldn`t.

  150. Profile photo of Luniz82
    Luniz82 Male 18-29
    588 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 1:25 am
    drat the Bible and all it stands for... drat god and all he stands for. drat religious people and all they stand for. You do not get to tell everyone how this country is to be ran because you believe in fairytales.. drat YOU!
  151. Profile photo of missPWNAGE
    missPWNAGE Female 18-29
    298 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 4:55 am
    You don`t want to give EVERYONE in this country equal rights? Then GTFO!!! Go live in Saudi Arabia where people are oppressed! >:\
  152. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 5:32 am
    @CrakrJak

    "What straight man would refuse the offer of sex with a virgin woman, hmmm?"

    Is that how you religious operate? Like uncontrolled biological automatons? No wonder you feel you need a book of rules to control yourself, if you`re unaware of such a thing of self-control.

    Just because YOU feel you`re incapable of controlling yourself and need an outside source of control, doesn`t mean everyone else is.
  153. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 5:39 am
    "If it`s origin is nurture or trauma then it`s a psychological problem and a lifestyle choice."

    1: It`d need to actually be a problem for that to be true. The only problem homosexuals experience are YOU, the homophobes.

    2: Even if it`s not caused by genetics, or womb conditions, and is instead tied to events that occurred in our early years, why do you then conclude that it`s then easy to change because of that? So much of our personalities is laid down in those early years, very deeply ingrained in us.

    3: And similar to point 1, why feel the need to change it, any more than you`d feel the need to change your dislike of peanut butter, or your like of situational comedy?

    4: And finally, even WERE it a choice (which it isn`t, we`re being hypothetical here), since WHEN did America stand for being AGAINST personal choice?!
  154. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 7:59 am
    Musuko42: The sodomites definitely were not in control of themselves, but they certainly didn`t want to have sex with women either, thus demonstrating their homosexual intentions.

    Also, I never said change was easy. People that have smoked cigarettes for years find it very hard to quit, but it`s still a choice.

    Legal minority status is not based on people`s lifestyle choices but on race, sex, skin color, and creed. Giving people minority status based on people`s choices opens the door to everyone claiming it based on whatever lifestyle they choose.

    Under those circumstances Goths, Skinheads, Furries, and even pedophiles could claim minority status, that makes a mockery of the whole definition of the word `minority`.
  155. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 8:18 am
    People that have smoked cigarettes for years find it very hard to quit, but it`s still a choice.

    Again you are making an apples and oranges comparison.
  156. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 8:51 am
    Goths, Skinheads, Furries

    They already have the right to marry.

    pedophiles

    You`re conflating homosexuality with a criminal act.
  157. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 9:25 am
    If being gay were a choice wouldn`t a gay youth just choose to be straight so that their peers would stop picking on them. Wouldn`t they choose to be straight instead of killing themselves. Wouldn`t they choose to be straight instead of getting kicked out of their house by intolerant parents. Being gay is not a choice.
  158. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 9:37 am
    CrakrJak, could you choose to be gay and no longer be attracted to women? Not that you want to but could you?
  159. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 9:56 am
    I was watching Biography a few months back. It was on Shaun Cassidy. As I watched, this wave of attraction rushed over me and I remembered how attracted I was to him. Then I remembered my crush on Leif Garrett. I looked up the Hardy Boy`s and did the math - I was nine. Sure they both looked like girls but I did not have any attraction to Wonder Woman or Farrah Fawcett. I was not abused or traumatized in any way. I grew up in a very loving conservative household. We didn`t grow up as fast back then so I didn`t really have too great a concept of sex. I was just attracted to guys. I can tell you personally for me it was not a choice. If it was I would be married to my friend Niccole. She is my soul mate. But I am not because even though she is very beautiful there is zero sexual attraction.
  160. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 11:36 am
    @CrakrJak

    "Also, I never said change was easy. People that have smoked cigarettes for years find it very hard to quit, but it`s still a choice."

    Such as myself.

    The thing is, I identified smoking as being harmful to my life, which gave me a reason to stop.

    The only thing harmful in my life about my homosexuality is people like YOU, and it makes far more sense to stop YOU from harming me than it is to change my personality to suit you.

    Sleeping with someone is a choice, but the desire to do so is not: I could sleep with women all I wanted, but it wouldn`t change my attraction to men.

    Get it through your thick head: while whether or not to act on the desire is a choice, the desire itself is not chosen.
  161. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 11:39 am
    @CrakrJak

    PS: We`re not doing all this campaigning in order to get minority status. We`re doing it so you pricks stop treating us like crap and let us live with the same freedoms, rights and responsibilities that you take for granted.

    Well...you might not. You`re in your 40s and you clam up whenever I ask you about your own personal romantic life, rather than boasting of a marriage, so I`ve always suspected you`re single and bitter. Perhaps it`s the fault of us gay guys that there are no women for you...somehow. *confused shrug*
  162. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 12:12 pm
    "We`re not doing all this campaigning in order to get minority status. We`re doing it so you pricks stop treating us like crap and let us live with the same freedoms, rights and responsibilities that you take for granted."

    Amen Musuko42. I`m not looking for acceptance just tolerance. I don`t think that is too much to ask for.
  163. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 12:24 pm
    Musuko, well said sir.

  164. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 2:15 pm
    eeek...
  165. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 2:28 pm
    Musuko42: I`ve never treated a homosexual as "Crap".

    There are certain realities everyone must live with based on the choices we have made in our lives, That doesn`t mean I can go cry "discrimination" on people that made better choices than I.

    Smokers suing tobacco manufacturers, for instance, is a total crock of sh|t. If you smoke you knew the risks before you started, It`s been emblazoned on every pack since before I can remember.

    No one should be given special privileges because of their desires.

    You already have all the same freedoms, rights, privileges, and responsibilities. What you want are special privileges.

    Do you honestly believe the state would allow one straight man to marry another straight man ? No, they wouldn`t, Thus what you are asking for is a special right. No one has taken away your right to marry, as long as it`s a woman, and I know gay men that have married women and had kids with them.
  166. Profile photo of cyborg
    cyborg Male 13-17
    2790 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 2:33 pm
    meh, to boring to watch
  167. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 2:34 pm
    markust123: Gays already are accepted and tolerated, Ellen DeGeneres has one of the most popular daytime tv shows ever, for example.

    What gays want now is for churches, synagogues, mosques, etc... to accept your lifestyle as `normal` and force them to marry gays.

    Sorry to disappoint you but you aren`t owed anything, you don`t deserve anymore respect than you earn in life, grow up and understand that reality of life.
  168. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 3:20 pm
    "There are certain realities everyone must live with based on the choices we have made in our lives, That doesn`t mean I can go cry "discrimination" on people that made better choices than I."

    Being gay isn`t a choice CrakrJak. It is something people are born with. Why can`t you get that through your thick skull?
  169. Profile photo of TwoTone
    TwoTone Male 18-29
    56 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 3:21 pm
    Musuko, spot on
  170. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 3:25 pm
    "What gays want now is for churches, synagogues, mosques, etc... to accept your lifestyle as `normal` and force them to marry gays."

    I don`t give a crap about churches. I want the same rights as everyone. The right to marry the person I love. It is up to the religious organizations to say if they will marry gays or not. A lot of them already are. What I want are the state and federal rights not a religious blessing. I would be perfectly happy if the government called all marriages Civil Unions. But you can`t have one set as Marriages and a lower class as Civil Unions for gays. That is discrimination.
  171. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 3:48 pm
    "Gays already are accepted and tolerated, Ellen DeGeneres has one of the most popular daytime tv shows ever, for example."

    Wow, I didn`t know that Ellen DeGeneres has put a stop to all the murder, harassment, beatings, bashings, bullying and discrimination that happens to the gay community around the world daily. I feel so much better now. I guess I will need to write her a thank you letter. Is she going to get the Nobel Peace Prize? I sure hope so because this was a huge accomplishment.
  172. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 5:25 pm
    CrakrJak:

    Are you aware that any link to homosexuality at all is a relatively recent reinterpretation of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah?

    Or that interpretation is extremely badly supported within your bible because other biblical references to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah don`t have even the vague suggestion that it might possibly have anything to do with homosexuality?

    Or that it`s an irrational interpretation of even that one reference, even if you ignore all the other references? For example, it would require all the men in Sodom to be homosexual, which is really rather unlikely.

    Your interpretation is bad theology.

    It`s also illogical and immoral, but of course neither pf those would matter to you since you base your life on religion.
  173. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 5:28 pm
    Do you honestly believe the state would allow one straight man to marry another straight man ? No, they wouldn`t, Thus what you are asking for is a special right.

    That argument was rubbish when some people used it to support the illegality of "mixed-race" marriages in the USA in the past and it`s still rubbish now.
  174. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 5:35 pm
    What gays want now is for churches, synagogues, mosques, etc... to accept your lifestyle as `normal` and force them to marry gays.

    Not yet, no. There will be some campaigning for that in the future, of course, along with various other forms of preferential treatment. Group advocacy politics is innately prejudiced and discriminatory and will always lead to promoting prejudice and discrimination against "the other". It`s always about more for whatever group it`s about, so it can`t possibly stop at equality because equality isn`t its goal.

    But that`s not a good reason to retain any unfair treatment of the group.
  175. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 5:44 pm
    What I want are the state and federal rights not a religious blessing. I would be perfectly happy if the government called all marriages Civil Unions. But you can`t have one set as Marriages and a lower class as Civil Unions for gays. That is discrimination.

    What if they were the same class, defined in law as being *exactly* the same?

    The UK took the pragmatic approach of avoiding the arguments over the word "marriage" by calling homosexual marriages "civil partnerships", legally defined as being exactly the same as secular marriages in every respect. That made it easy to get all the legal rights in place quickly and without any fuss. It hardly even made the news.

    People who strongly disapprove of homosexuality won`t acknowledge homosexual marriages and people who don`t will call them marriages anyway, so it doesn`t really matter what the paperwork calls them.

    How would you react to that?
  176. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 5:47 pm
    I was out weeding getting some quality thought time. While out there my parents popped into my head. They are both conservative but were not raised religious. Nor did they raise my brother or I religious. And when I say they are conservative I mean with a capital C. But the thing is my parents are wonderfully accepting. I have never heard either of them say anything bigoted. Sure my dad has told a few jokes but whose dad doesn`t? At the age of 22 I came out to my parents. They were amazingly cool. Neither of them looked or treated me any different. I can`t imagine the trauma gays have to go through coming out when there is religion in the mix. Why is that? Why do so many churches teach bigotry and subtle hatred? Why is the bible used as a weapon against any of God`s children? Why do people behave so un-Christ like? I feel sorry for people like CrakrJak. And am very glad I live in Seattle where I rarely run into Religious bigots like him.
  177. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 5:57 pm
    Angilion to me calling gay marriages "civil partnerships" is creating a second class. It is discriminatory. It says gays are not good enough to be called married. If you have to create a second class why not just do away with state sponsored marriage and call all marriages Civil Unions? People could still get married in a church if they want or are allowed but it would not be legal until they also went through the state sponsored Civil Union ceremony. The question is moot in America though. Six states have expanded marriage to include same sex couples. And guess what the sky did not fall. The dominoes of bigotry are starting to fall.
  178. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 6:02 pm
    The sky didn`t fall in Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain and Sweden. These countries did not give into religious suppression. They are all doing fine.
  179. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 6:25 pm
    markust123:

    Since you`ve just stated that having exactly the same legal rights in every respect is being second class, are you going to stop saying that`s what you`re after?

    Bet you aren`t.
  180. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 6:42 pm
    "Since you`ve just stated that having exactly the same legal rights in every respect is being second class, are you going to stop saying that`s what you`re after?"

    Don`t twist my words. When gays are given a separate institute that is not equal. Do you want to know why gay people want marriage? Because we are sick and tired of being told we are evil or sinners. That there is something wrong with us. We are sick of people attacking us for something we have no control over. We just want the same rights that you take for granted.
  181. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 11:02 pm
    We just want the same rights that you take for granted.

    Obviously that isn`t true in your case because you stated that wasn`t enough.

    Incidentally, why do you assume I`m straight? (free clue - I`m not).
  182. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 11:19 pm
    Angilion, when I said "We just want the same rights that you take for granted." you know I thought you were straight, you even made that claim. Yet you answer as if I knew you were gay. Enjoy your second class civil Partnerships. I`m done with you. You`re a troll like CrakrJak and 5Cats. I don`t have time for people like you.
  183. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 11:33 pm
    Do you want to know why gay people want marriage? Because we are sick and tired of being told we are evil or sinners.

    Speak for yourself. Many gay people want equal legal rights, not the power to force others to suppress their religious beliefs.

    I get told I`m a sinner, blah blah blah, even by some theists who think I`m straight. I`m an athiest - evil sinner! Yeah, yeah, whatever. I`ve no interest in trying to force them to be silent, let alone express approval of something that goes against their religion. Why should I care what they think? I have no respect for them.

    You could have had the rights already. What you`re mainly after is fights, not rights, head to head against religion. If you win, you`ll have to find something else to fight about. There will always be something to find. It`s the group politics thing I refer to a few posts down.
  184. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 11:42 pm
    you know I thought you were straight, you even made that claim.

    If you really think I did, feel free to point it out. You can`t, of course, because it isn`t true.

    Yet you answer as if I knew you were gay.

    No, I answered to point out that you wrongly assumed I was straight. It`s that group identity and group politics thing again - anyone who doesn`t conform must be one of the Other.

    Enjoy your second class civil Partnerships.

    You can "enjoy" your endless fighting for no purpose other than fighting.

    I`ll enjoy my equal rights. Unlike you, I don`t regard equal rights as second class.

    I`m done with you. You`re a troll like CrakrJak and 5Cats.

    Yes dear, that`s why I spend so much time disagreeing with them. Obviously.

    I don`t have time for people like you.

    I`m one of your approved group but I don`t conform, so I es
  185. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 29, 2011 at 11:42 pm
    Oh well Crakr`s going to become part of small and shrinking minority of people against gay marriage anyway. No point debating with him.
  186. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 12:11 am
    Oh well Crakr`s going to become part of small and shrinking minority of people against gay marriage anyway. No point debating with him.
    Such is the inexorable march of human progress.

    Terms like "Conservative" and "Liberal/Progressive" get bandied about like they`re insults. Conservatives want to keep the old ways (conserve the system as it is), Progressives want to progress (by definition). Conservatives, and especially religious conservatives, will die out over time. They`re dying anyway.
  187. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 12:13 am
    Church attendance is at an all-time low and falling, atheism is increasing on par with scientific advancement, and people are being shown what religion is on an almost daily basis through modern media. Sh*t, people are getting smarter.

    I know it`s a cliché, but I`ve heard it said that science will fly you to the moon, religion will fly you into buildings. Of the 9-11 variety.

    I would suggest that rather than try to debate these old-skoolers who hang their faith and entire world-view on Bronze-Age texts written in the late Neolithic period by goat-herders, they are all going to die off by old age anyway.

    Let them go the way of the dinosaurs, in their own time.
  188. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 12:39 am
    Angillion: the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah don`t have even the vague suggestion that it might possibly have anything to do with homosexuality

    As I referred to before, The men of sodom were offered virgin women and refused them in favor of trying to get "the new men". If that doesn`t describe homosexual desire plainly enough to you then nothing will.

    Then again you`re an atheist and don`t believe anything in the bible anyways. Twisting bible passages around is a sport atheists love to do. It still amazes me why atheists spend so much time fighting against something they don`t believe, and treat it like it`s a game.

    Makes about as much sense as making a game out of bashing the tooth fairy or casper the ghost, It makes most of you look ridiculous.
  189. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 12:45 am
    Twisting bible passages around is a sport atheists love to do

    Ad homiminem
  190. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 12:48 am
    It makes most of you look ridiculous

    Oh yeah as if this whole `debate` and ones before haven`t done the same to you already.
  191. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 12:48 am
    off to work
  192. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 4:50 am
    @CrakrJak

    "You already have all the same freedoms, rights, privileges, and responsibilities. What you want are special privileges."

    In regards to marriage, it`s the right to marry the person you love, not the right to marry "someone of the opposite sex".

    The fact that you completely overlook the LOVE portion of this equation says a lot about you, the person who flat out clams up whenever I ask whom do you love.
  193. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 4:52 am
    @CrakrJak

    "What gays want now is for churches, synagogues, mosques, etc... to accept your lifestyle as `normal` and force them to marry gays."

    No we don`t. Where did you get this?

    We just want to get married. Most of us don`t care about what churches choose to do.

    And those who do merely want the churches to be ALLOWED to marry them, not FORCED to marry them.
  194. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 4:57 am
    @Angilion

    "What if they were the same class, defined in law as being *exactly* the same?"

    Seperate but equal is something any American should be familiar with from their own history. It`s not a good concept.

    "The UK took the pragmatic approach of avoiding the arguments over the word "marriage" by calling homosexual marriages "civil partnerships""

    I agree, and am grateful for it. But be under no illusion: it`s still an inequality. A necessary one, a stepping stone towards full equality, and a welcome step; but not the final end result just yet.

    For the time being, I`m happy to be patient, so long as the progress stays in the right direction. Remember: whilst still seperate from marriage, it can still be revoked by an uglier future government, and that`s the problem (one of many) with "seperate but equal".
  195. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 5:01 am
    @CrakrJak

    "Twisting bible passages around is a sport atheists love to do."

    We`re novices at it compared to the Gordian Knots you true believers can twist those words into when it suits you.
  196. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 5:03 am
    And as this has now slipped to the second page, that will be it from me.

    Until the next debate post rolls around, adieu.
  197. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 11:31 am
    Yeah, CJ won`t be back on this thread I`m guessing. It`s amazing the almost Superman-esque speed at which he can transform into the two end-members of Christianity: from judgemental billboard-wearing, loudhailer-toting shoutist to meek and mild lamb.

    Especially after being thoroughly smacked. Once again, well said Musuko.
  198. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 10:16 pm
    I have a really weird feeling that CrakrJak and Angilion are the same person. Maybe he does this to get a rise out of everyone. If I am correct the insanity is that he argues with himself.
  199. Profile photo of Kalon
    Kalon Male 13-17
    369 posts
    June 30, 2011 at 11:21 pm
    Wow I didnt know people could be so stupid. *The more you know.
  200. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    July 1, 2011 at 12:19 am
    I have a really weird feeling that CrakrJak and Angilion are the same person. Maybe he does this to get a rise out of everyone. If I am correct the insanity is that he argues with himself.
    Markust, as one of the Secret Order of the Red Name (read: I`m a nerd admin who can see IP addresses), I can assure you they are different people. Unless this Angilion/Crakrjak character has the superhuman/alien ability to travel transatlantic in the space of minutes.

    Besides, you`d have to be the hero of all schizos to think like Crakrjak and Angilion in the same sentence.

    Relax dude, it`s not a troll. People (of the same species, to boot) are genuinely that diametrically opposite in world views.
  201. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    July 1, 2011 at 12:37 am
    Thanks for straightening that out.

    I was wondering what the red name meant. So what are the green name people I see every once in a while?
  202. Profile photo of markust123
    markust123 Male 40-49
    3890 posts
    July 1, 2011 at 1:04 am
    Thanks for all the good work. Love the site. I come here daily.
  203. Profile photo of xoxnameless
    xoxnameless Female 18-29
    208 posts
    July 4, 2011 at 12:02 am
    "It`s not a pretty world we live in right now" he says. Okay... so you are saying that something is wrong? Things the way they are now aren`t working too well? THEN IT`S TIME FOR CHANGE. Deal wit` it.

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