Gay Marriage Approved By N.Y. Senate

Submitted by: LadyIsis 5 years ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/gay-marriage-approved-by-new-york-senate.html?hp

Lawmakers voted today to legalize same-sex marriage, making NY the largest state where gay and lesbian couples can wed.
There are 115 comments:
Male 101
Good.
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Male 10,845
Further @auburnjunky

Okay they`re still on the books but they`re no longer allowed to enforce them.
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Male 10,845
[quote">Last I checked, sodomy (oral and anal sex) is illegal in all 50 states, and it carries hefty prison time.[/quote">


Nope
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Male 10,845
Then again if the federal and state govts were to stop recognizing marriages altogether EVERYONE would be angry.
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Male 10,845
[quote]and again, my whole point is that marriage and government should be separate.[/quote]

That`d be fine, allow a person himself to determine who can inherit his/her belongings and who has visitation rights when they become ill/seriously injured.
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Male 10,845
[quote]It`s called unintended consequences[/quote]


As far as I can tell it looks like it takes a REAL idiot to be a (social) conservative. No rational person here is going to believe this argument so long as you keep invoking the slippery slope fallacy.
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Male 702
@ anyone who opposes same-sex marriage.

You`ve lost. Get over it. Go and find something a little more logically ambiguous to fight over.
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Male 1,399
I think any consenting adults should be able to legally marry in whatever configuration they wish.

2 people, 3 people, 10 people...since government feels it necessary to have marriage laws (which they shouldn`t) then it should be treated as a simple contract. Any number of people can make a legal contract.

As far as churches go - if a church chooses not to sanctify a marriage, so be it. That has zero bearing on it`s legality. Zero.
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Male 4,283
"Just another step toward the legalization of polygamy, pedophilia and bestiality."

This is where your thoughts go CrakrJak? To pedophilia? To bestiality? You`re one sick bastard. I hope for the good of the world that you are sterile.
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Male 12,365
[quote]and again, my whole point is that marriage and government should be separate.[/quote]

So you`re advocating the removal of *all* legal rights and recognition of marriage? If you aren`t, then you aren`t advocating that marriage and government should be seperate.

[quote]so, if `religion` wants to let you in their club good for them. if they hate you, its their right to do so.[/quote]

I agree, but that`s irrelevant to marriage. It would mean that religious groups should be free to choose whether or not to grant religious approval to a marriage, but it has nothing to do with the marriage itself.

If you genuinely remove government from marriage, you`re left with marriage as vows of commitment between two people to each other, i.e. a wedding (from the O.E. `weddian`, meaning `to vow`). Which is a matter of honour, not religion.
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Male 12,365
[quote]the word marriage appears in the bible 25 times.[/quote]

Except that it doesn`t, since the bible wasn`t written in English.

We`re talking about the *original* meaning, remember? There weren`t any English versions of the bible until quite recently. The word `marriage` greatly predates them, so it`s silly to take them as the original meaning.

[quote]in our country (not yours) its a religious affair.[/quote]

No it isn`t. You have secular marriages. Marriage has many secular results in the USA (legal rights, effects on taxation).

[quote]no it wouldnt...remember why the pilgrims left in the first place?[/quote]

The pilgrims did not leave Iron Age Rome. You`re out by a couple of thousand years. The subject was the original meaning of the word `marriage`, which can be traced back to early Rome.
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Male 2,543
[quote]Marriage is not a religious affair. It is, was and always has been primarily or solely a legal matter.[/quote]

the word marriage appears in the bible 25 times. it appears in the constitution 0 times. so im afraid your grossly mistaken. in our country (not yours) its a religious affair. and again, my whole point is that marriage and government should be separate. so, if `religion` wants to let you in their club good for them. if they hate you, its their right to do so.

[quote]most relevant religion would be the ancient Roman pantheon[/quote]

no it wouldnt...remember why the pilgrims left in the first place? this (our) country was founded by atheists/agnostics and built primarily by Christians. Polytheism played little part.
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Male 985
Silly Christans having a problem with gay marriage.
Go change your own teachings so you can divorce and have a complete fit over two people who love each other marrying.
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Male 12,365
[quote]madest: Since the definition of marriage (and many other legal terms nowadays) is now malleable, How will you or anyone else be able stop the word from being abused further ? Answer, You can`t and won`t be able to. [/quote]

Yes, yes! We should return to the original meaning of marriage and enforce that by law!

Obviously, that would mean outlawing Christianity in marriage since Christianity was just an abuse of a malleable definition of `marriage`.

Are you sure that`s what you meant, CrakrJak?
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Male 12,365
[quote]personally, i dont agree with gay marriage. marriage is a religious affair. why would you want to join a club that doest want you (goes for all you atheists as well)? go start your own thing. if you want equal political rights ill support you 100% but ill never consider you `married`.[/quote]

One of your predicates is wrong, so your conclusion is therefore wrong.

Main counter:

Marriage is not a religious affair. It is, was and always has been primarily or solely a legal matter. It`s only in some places at some times that a religion has been able to acquire enough power to seize marriage as a form of control.

Secondary counter:

Since it`s the word `marriage` you`re on about, then the most relevant religion would be the ancient Roman pantheon, since the word comes from pre-Christian Rome. I suggest that sacrificing to Juno would be appropriate, but of course religion was optional in marriage then, as it is now.
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Male 50
I don`t actually understand how a topic such as this need actually be discussed in modern society. It should just be taken for granted. It`s barbaric to think that people still oppose it =/
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Female 269
SlothOfDoom,
"Oh well way to go NY. First comes gay marriage, soon you have horses marrying ghosts! Its a slippery slope, damnit!"

I`m assuming/ hoping this is tongue-in-cheek sarcasm?
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Male 2,033
Oh well way to go NY. First comes gay marriage, soon you have horses marrying ghosts! Its a slippery slope, damnit!
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Male 95
Well, as long as America is going to heck in a handbasket anyway, why not go out in style like Sodom and Gomorrah?
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Female 33
CrakrJak, those "some" people you worry about do not exist.

Those "most liberals" you describe also do not exist.

All it takes to be a conservative such as yourself, apparently, is to believe things about liberals that are 100% false.
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Male 122
The irony really hurts there CrakrJak. The Constitution hasn`t meant anything for a while. You can thank the Patriot Act for that. Oh, and do me a favor. Go find the topic of Marriage in the Constitution. Tell me what it says...
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Male 122
There is no "honest debate" when it comes to this issue. It goes without saying that this is about basic human rights. The fact that we are just starting to allow this in 2011 is absolutely ridiculous but better late than never.
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Male 17,512
Monique_D: I said `Some` not all, the same some that would love to trash our constitution and substitute it with some creation of their own.

I believe most liberals go along with their leaders ideals because they want to be thought of as just as hip and progressive as the celebrities they idolize. It takes guts and firm moral resolve to be a conservative, all it takes to be a liberal is just the willingness to be a sheep like the rest.
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Female 33
[quote]I do believe that some liberals do intend those consequences to break up what is left of normal society. [/quote]
You seriously believe that? You obviously don`t have a clue what real-life liberals think and believe.
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Male 17,512
madest: Since the definition of marriage (and many other legal terms nowadays) is now malleable, How will you or anyone else be able stop the word from being abused further ? Answer, You can`t and won`t be able to.

When the beginning of life was redefined to birth instead of conception we got the horror of late-term abortions, that people back then said would never happen as well.

It`s called unintended consequences, although I do believe that some liberals do intend those consequences to break up what is left of normal society.

Heureux: I didn`t `compare` gay marriage to anything, just listed what I believe may be down the road in the near future. I`ve NEVER incited violence toward anyone here. If you can`t handle honest debate then perhaps it is you that has the `malice and contempt` sir.
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Male 2,543
[quote]skypirate, Nobody cares what you think of it because it`s none of your damn business.[/quote]

obviously you care enough to comment :-D


and you`re a little off about polygamy. its illegal because the practice is inherently bad for men as a whole, and they`re the ones that run/ran the country.
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Male 2,841
Today marriage, tomorrow marijuana.
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Female 7,833
I heard this on the news this morning when I woke. How nice- good news when you have morning coffee starts the day well. I wish all those about to take the step a happy life together...
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Male 10,440
Anyway I`m not particularly pleased about this post. America is not a very socially developed country, but it is moving somewhere, despite what some may think.
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Male 10,440
CrackrJak is a moron. We`ve all known this for ages. What`s with all the hostility?
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Male 5,190
Small steps humanity. Small steps.
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Male 13
Marriage is about love, and it only has to pertain to religion as much as you want it to. Marriage is two people loving and trusting the other enough to vow their lives to each other(whether it stays that way is a whole other can of worms). I`ve seen gay couples that exemplify this much much more than some straight couples, so more power to them.
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Male 7,378
@Heureux, It wasn`t hate speech it was merely stupid speech.
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Male 1,054
madest

"CJ, You are indeed trolling."

Why not ban-hammer crakrjak? Comparing same-sex marriage to raping animals and children is hate speech. It incites violence against GLBTQ people. His frequent expressions of malice and contempt trigger flame wars here that suck the humor right out of the joint.

Oh, and regarding polygamy - it is an ancient traditional form of heterosexual marriage, and if one really wants to prevent it, one would ban heterosexuals from getting married.
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Male 7,378
Polygamy is not about consenting adults. It`s more about fairness. Which spouse would be entitled to survivor benefits? Would the government need to treat each spouse equally? That wouldn`t be fair to non polygamous tax payers. What about divorce? Would a wife be allowed to divorce a sister wife? Polygamy was legal in America long enough for legislators to realize it just doesn`t work.

@skypirate, Nobody cares what you think of it because it`s none of your damn business.
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Male 723
"marriage is a religious affair."

In fact, it`s not. Not anymore. It`s now, and has been for a very long time, a secular legal institution that has ramifications that reach into the areas of health, insurance, medical care, death benefits, child care, etc.

This issue isn`t about someone`s 4000 year old, animal sacrificing, bronze age desert tribe`s "morals" anymore. It`s about being able to legally visit my loved one in the hospital. It`s about being allowed to enjoy the same tax benefits as every other legally married couple. It`s about being able to make legal decisions for our children. It`s about being able to make binding decisions for my loved one`s remains in case of their death and the distribution, or lack thereof, of their property according to their wishes. It`s about legal representation.

Besides, shouldn`t they be allowed to lose half their sh*t in a divorce, too? Anything less is legalized bigotry.

8-) LJ
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Male 591
"Just another step toward the legalization of polygamy, pedophilia and bestiality."

Is anyone really surprised by this post from CrakrJak? He`s the same guy who wrote earlier this year that "Terrorism is caused by liberals."
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Male 2,543
politically, i dont see why we need the government to tell us who we can and cant marry. personal relationships should be just that, personal.

personally, i dont agree with gay marriage. marriage is a religious affair. why would you want to join a club that doest want you (goes for all you atheists as well)? go start your own thing. if you want equal political rights ill support you 100% but ill never consider you `married`.
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Male 122
@CrakrJak "Just another step toward the legalization of polygamy, pedophilia and bestiality."

That`s the kind of insensitive crap that tells me your opinion is no longer worth anything. You really view the act of homosexuality to be on THAT level?
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Male 503
The fact that some people are against gay marriage so strongly is a bit shocking to me. Why does it matter to you? Does having money pumped into the economy by having expensive lavish weddings bother you? Does what they do in bed disgust you? if so, why think about it? Is it not a waste of your energy that you could be using loving god to hate somebody for loving somebody of the same gender? Does your insecurity ride so deep that you believe that legalizing the validation of love between to human beings could lead to the legalization of having sex with animals or rape? That pipe dream, "all men are created equal" is tested by the ignorance of hatred for the sake of hatred. Grow up, this is a new world.
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Male 3,482
Obviously Crakr lacks an understanding of the term "CONSENTING ADULTS."

I suppose you also believes this is a step towards legalizing rape in general then, huh? After all, the only reason it`s illegal is because of the lack of informed consent.

You know, the kind animals and children can`t give, but grown men and women can?
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Male 3,057
@ Crakr: That`s quite a stretch... even for you brother...

I don`t think you`re trolling... I think you really believe what you said down there.

As for polygamy, if that`s what consenting adults want, let `em have it. Personally, after having lived in a situation where I was the lone male with four female housemates, I can say that living with multiple wives would end badly for many who tried.
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Male 2,436
Meh... legal or not, you`re doing it wrong.
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Male 183
polygamy doesnt bother me...as long as its between consenting adults.
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Male 10,339
Any excuse to launch a personal attack there huh?

If you feed the trolls, they grow stronger.

Sorry CJ, but bestiality? pedophilia? C`mon dude. I won`t say no to Polygamy though. If we get a Mormon in the White House anything`s possible. ;)
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Male 7,378
CJ, You are indeed trolling. I`ve heard you say really dumb poo over the years but this takes the cake. Pedophilia and bestiality will always be illegal because they don`t involve consenting adults. The Morrill anti-polygamy act of 1862 was signed by Abraham Lincoln and if you wrapped your pea brain around the ramifications of polygamy you`d be against that as well.
You`re just a bigot CJ. You want the constitution to mean what it says only to white christian conservatives and when it doesn`t you could care less.
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Female 1,743
irrelevant?
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Male 182
Its sad that a law needs to be passed to make it legal.

especially when there is nothing illegal about it in the first place.
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Male 10,339
I was mainly posting that in reference to what jteachy said:

[quote]hey right wing, suck on that piece of legislation.[/quote]
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Female 1,743
@auburnjunky

that is a good thing.
republicans with views like crakr are fading out :P
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Male 12
@crakrjak: You know, they could legalize bestiality, polygamy, and pedophilia without gay marriage being legal. They`re not dependent on it.
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Male 17,512
PsychGeek: I`m not a troll, I`ve held this prediction for over a decade now. Just watch, It`ll happen and sooner than you think.
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Male 10,339
Just so you guys know, the Senate in NY is majority Republican.
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Female 836
Makes me happy to see my country actually listening to the people who aren`t on the rabid right for a change.
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Male 802
The government should have no involvement in marriage.
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Male 1,678
"It`s funny, some of these comments lead me to believe that the rest of the world actually thinks we care about their opinions of us."

And this little bitchy comment leads me to believe that you really do ;-)
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Male 1,793
wtg New York...
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Female 1,798
@ CrakrJak:

please stop trolling, we all know you said that just to start a flame war. kthanksGETOUT.
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Male 605
@CrakrJak You gotta love progress!
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Male 5,094
CrakrJak: Trololol.
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Male 5,094
daroofa: Apparently you cared enough to leave a comment.
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Female 331
This article was great. I`m so impressed with the four Republicans that broke ranks...of course, it`s something that should have been done a long time ago, but it`s a HUGE step in the right direction. :)
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Male 17,512
Just another step toward the legalization of polygamy, pedophilia and bestiality.
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Male 4,746
A step in the right direction. Keep it going!
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Male 365
Why was there ever even a question about this?
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Male 132
It`s funny, some of these comments lead me to believe that the rest of the world actually thinks we care about their opinions of us.
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Male 1,417
I wonder if Westboro Baptist Chruch is going to protest the entire state of New York now.
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Female 155
America, Fcuk Yeah!
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Female 136
Well done N.Y!
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Male 1,931
Wow, government actually voting `Yes` on a human equality issue. Fantastic, didn`t think I`d see the day in my lifetime.
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Male 3,472
Big whoop. Now lets hang some white collar criminals from
Wall Street and the savings and loan and Goldman Sachs and Enron...
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Male 994
As one comedian puts it, "We should let gays marry. Why can`t they suffer like the rest of us?"
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Male 1,629
they should just abolish marriage as a whole IMO
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Male 2,514
Why should anyone but gay people care one way or another?

A marriage is a civil matter and civil rights, by definition, are rights that are protected from unwarranted infringement by the government. This means there never should have been a vote in the first place. By voting on civil rights, one way or another, you are completely destroying the idea that it was ever a civil right.

I`m just sayin`...
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Male 12,138
Congrats America, you`re finally catching up with the rest of the planet. You may just hold on to your superpower status for a few more years yet. Better the devil you know...

Sincerely, from a European that would rather have you than China.

Peace, Davymid
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Female 535
Babysteps. But I still smile for my gay & lesbian New Yorker friends.
One day people will realise that love is more important than what you do with your genitals.
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Male 34
Just as God intended: Matthew 19:6 "What therefore God hath joined together let not man put asunder" mouahahaha.
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Male 181
Today is a good day.
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Male 122
hey right wing, suck on that piece of legislation.
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Male 10,339
Hmmmm. Apparently it is still illegal for married couples to engage in sodomy in Alabama, but everyone else can. Weird.

Kinda dumb.
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Male 10,339
Well you didn`t have to be an ass about it. Just didn`t know.
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Male 914
"Last I checked, sodomy (oral and anal sex) is illegal in all 50 states, and it carries hefty prison time."

Maybe you should update your knowledge more than once a decade. Sodomy was legalized in the U.S. in 2003.
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Male 10,339
Hey guys, I was just wondering, and correct me if I`m wrong, but shouldn`t they be trying to legalize sex with each other?

Last I checked, sodomy (oral and anal sex) is illegal in all 50 states, and it carries hefty prison time.
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Male 10,339
@fatninja: Gay couples can already adopt in many states, even without marriage. :\
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Male 6,737
Well done NY, maybe the rest of the US can move forward now too. :)
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Male 10,339
A judge will block it. Always happens anytime something important happens.
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Male 914
"That`s not good, think of the children!!!!"

Don`t worry, we`ll legalize children marriage soon.
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Male 226
That`s not good, think of the children!!!!
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Male 25,416
I know i will start an arguement, but... im happy if they can wed, even if the church disagrees, however it would not be ok if they have children, just because the effect it would have on the child. So congrats to NY for doing this, just dont let it go further...
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Male 3,057
Good to see my home state step up and finally do this. Equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation.
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Male 621
You`re getting there America :) Keep on truckin!
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Male 2,422
I approve this post.
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Male 302
The question is how much longer til PA does this?
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Male 302
As a heterosexual man I say....good.
Let em do what makes them happy, doesn`t hurt me. Big steps for many things
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Male 19,840
@Angilion: to answer your question, if you`re gay and get married in NY, it`s not recognized if you say, move to California (or any other state that doesn`t recognize gay marriage).

But to comment on the other thing you said, yeah, I think NY approving means other states will eventually see that the world`s not ending and will soon follow.
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Male 10,845
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Male 362
good
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Male 914
OMG, this is soooooo f*cking gay!
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Male 591
Absolutely awesome news!

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Male 12,365
Is marriage in one USA state automatically recognised in other states?

If so, there`s a new business opportunity right there, like with Gretna Green and the Marriage Act(*).

NY should be a useful place for USA people to point at to show the lack of change after homosexual marriages are legalised. None of the things some people say would happen actually happen. No social collapse, no end of heterosexual marriage, none of that stuff. Just a small increase in the number of people getting married.


* The Marriage Act placed restrictions on marriages in England and Wales in 1753, but it didn`t apply in Scotland. Scottish marriages were recognised in England and Wales. Gretna Green was the first Scottish settlement on the main route out of England, so people who couldn`t marry in England and Wales could go there, get married and have their marriage recognised in England and Wales, thus circumventing the restrictions.
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Female 1,798
"It`s about time someone got this started."

actually it`s the 6th state to approve gay marriage :) :) :) it`s amazing, isn`t it?? <3
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Male 1,196
new york is gay
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Male 688
I`m pretty sure you can`t exactly appeal something like this. An appeal would mean they are saying gay marriage is against the constitution or something. In CA the appeal was to remove the ban on gay marriage, saying it was against their rights. Which I believe was just recently removed.

Basically in CA their was a populous vote to ban any marriage other than between a man and a woman and it passed 52.24% to 47.76% under 600,000 votes separated it. This was later appealed.

In NY they just passed the law and had it approved which can only be overturned by another vote which isn`t going to happen or a populous vote to ban it which against most likely won`t happen as it`s already been declared by federal judges that it`s against the constitution to do it.

Basically you don`t appeal something like this, you appeal the opposite (banning) of it.

I hope this answers your question
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Male 511
Well, it`s about time Albany finally passed this isn`t it?

On a lighter note, I opened the newspaper Tuesday morning for the first time in two weeks and was like, "Debate in Albany over same-sex marriage? When the hell did this happen?!" I was completely out of the loop.
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Female 1,677
Aww yay, good for you guys.
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Female 3,696
This makes me so happyy <3<3 =D
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Male 19,840
I think California will be the next state. We needed a big state like NY to follow through.

Here`s a question that someone smarter than me might be able to answer: Won`t this just be appealed again like it always does?
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Male 149
It`s about time someone got this started.
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Male 7,585
congratulations new york.
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Male 19,840
You would have thought New York of all states would have approved this one a long time ago.

That said, now`s a good time to become a divorce lawyer. Just saying, divorce happens.
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Male 881
Somewhere there is a Sith lord that sensed a great disturbance in the force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in happiness, and were suddenly unoppressed.
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Male 1,442
It was going to happen sooner or later. It is a good step for more equality though!
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Female 1,798
it`s about freaking time <3 <3 Equality for all!!
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Male 586
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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Female 403
Link: Gay Marriage Approved By N.Y. Senate [Rate Link] - Lawmakers voted today to legalize same-sex marriage, making NY the largest state where gay and lesbian couples can wed.
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