Supreme Court Backs AZ Law Against Illegal Aliens

Submitted by: Gerry1of1 6 years ago in
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43181537/ns/politics-more_politics/t/supreme-court-backs-ariz-employer-sanctions-law/

States now have right to close businesses that hire illegals. Say goodbye to your favorite restaurants...
There are 74 comments:
Male 519
I agree completely. Businesses shouldn`t hire career criminals with no intention of reform.
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Male 10,338
"Tile our roofs, raise our kids, mow our lawns, maintain our restrooms, paint our houses,"

There are plenty of unemployed Americans who would love to have these jobs.
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Female 515
Being from AZ I am glad to hear this. If you want to get a job here apply for citizenship or get a "Green" card...just like you would in ANY OTHER COUNTRY! Yes, we are a melting pot...but "sneaking in", stealing someone`s identity and sending the money you make out of the country is not contributing to the US. (And don`t tell me this doesn`t happen...I`ve seen it happen to several people I know, as well as myself)
I`m glad to see employers finally being held accountable!!!
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Female 119
My husband lost his Concrete job because of Illegals. His boss told him point blank.."The economy is slowing down..You make 22 bucks an hour, I can hire 5 wet-backs for that price and not have to pay SSI and insurance on them. It`s just good business since to let you go."
It`s not that they do the work Americans do not want.. It is that they will do it cheaply and are easy to get rid of when they want better treatment or more money.
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Male 2,376
@cajun ummm shouldn`t you guys be raising your own children? reminds me of that movie with white family but the kid only speaks spanish because the nanny pretty much raised him lol..
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Male 25,416
meh.....
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Male 40,250

@ Cajun247

the only americans I know who are not in favor of stricter immegration {and enforcement/deportation} are mexican decendants. And just some, not all of those. Many of them are also loosing jobs to illegals.

Americans have made up their mind.
Corporations disagree and want cheep labor.

The politicians will back the ones who fund them.
HINT: It`s not "we the people".
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Male 10,855
@Gerry

America has got to make up it`s bipolar mind on the issue:

On one hand:
Illegals are a source of cheap labor and can hold jobs that Americans don`t really want. Without illegals who will:
Tile our rooves, raise our kids, mow our lawns, maintain our restrooms, paint our houses, etc.

On the other hand:
Illegals pay less earn more welfare than they do pay taxes, and are taking jobs lower class Americans could really use.
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Male 10,855
LOL @iceblack

I feel so sorry for you

hehe.

Maybe they should add "Carribean" to that list.
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Male 10,855
...you will recieve a fair trial regardless.
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Male 10,855
[quote]I love it when all the ILLEGAL aliens protest in a country to which they have no legal rights. Cracks me up every time. I`m going to go down to Mexico and protest for me to have free Margaritas now. [/quote]

Seems funny how people like you seem to forget that the 14th amendment says "all people", as in "govt doesn`t give a 5h17 about your citizenship".
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Female 582
Finally! A great court decision. Now lets just see if they uphold it....

I don`t have a problem with people wanting a better life, but this isn`t the way. Illegals aren`t actually immigrants. To be an immigrant, you have to leave your old country and establish yourself as a member of the new country. Illegals aren`t doing that. They are still very much tied to Mexico.

We can`t control illegals with a freaking fence. It`s absurd. Remove the reason they come here and they won`t do it anymore. OH! And if they keep getting stolen SSN cards, MAKE THE GODDAMN SYSTEM TIGHTER!
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Male 666
>>>they are paying a lot of taxes into the system<<<


Please provide evedence of this.

If you are talking about sales taxes, that money would have gone to the states if another person had that job a spent the money, so I fail to see how this is a net increase in tax revenue.

If you are talking about income taxes the same argument applies. I would add that I find it idiotic that an illegal filing a federal tax return using a stolen SSN number, is not arrested on the spot. Then again perhaps they don`t file.
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Male 734
I love it when all the ILLEGAL aliens protest in a country to which they have no legal rights. Cracks me up every time. I`m going to go down to Mexico and protest for me to have free Margaritas now.
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Male 14,331
So what the problem with this? God forbid companies have to hire legal citizens and have them pay taxes. IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE OH NOEZ!!! If they don`t like it apply for citizenship or go back to Mexico they`re called illegal for a reason and are compounding a problem that costs us a fortune.
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Female 1,101
@8BitHero why are you laughing at America? Like Europe doesn`t have the same problem with illegal immigrants *cough* Arabs.
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Male 120
oh, came back because i forgot something to point out earlier. new mexico. but all the "non"illegals there.like all "non: legal mexicans.
and i do not want too hear this crap about it not working.
it and Oklahoma solved oiur native Americana problem. i don`t hear Florida complaining about that one at all.
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Male 296
I don`t know why this was even an issue. The answer seems obvious to me.
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Male 143
>>>I`m pretty sure a sizable chunk out of that 9% would rather collect unemployment than work a terrible job.<<<

Which is why we have to crack down on unemployment and welfare benefits also. Unemployment and welfare should not be valid alternatives to actual work, no matter how menial the job.
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Female 3,001
oh you Americans
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Male 120
Congrats everyone who does not understand what an uneven taxation pyramid causes. i never realized how ben steins we had on this sight.

lokk, they are Mexicans. it says it in thier name where they belong. Mexico. how is this hard off for people up north past the common sense line not realize this?
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Male 5,413
Haha Americans
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Male 240
About time.
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Male 4,902
DEY TURK ER JERBS!!!!!
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Male 4,902
Cant we atleast agree on one thing.... THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!

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Female 4,084
when i apply for a job, its stated right on the application that i will have to prove my citizenship and thus my eligibility. unless i do so, i will not be employed.

by tacitly allowing corporations like tyson foods and wal-mart (to name two in my neck of the woods) to hire illegals with no consequences to them, you are saying, in effect, `go ahead and break some more laws, we really don`t care`. you also are giving these companies the opportunity to exploit and oppress anyone they please, not just the illegals. and if just one set of executives from any corporation in this country was to go to jail over this issue you would see sweeping changes.

its wrong to exploit people, whether they are here legally or not, whether they are gay or straight, man or woman, young, old, black, white, red, yellow, or brown. we all must fight oppression and exploitation wherever we find it.
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Male 40,250

fiveanthems [quote]"Why else would we be so limp wristed with enforcing it?" [/quote]

Because large corporations own politicians and they want cheep labor that doesn`t require health benefits and won`t report safety violations.

Even if they were paying taxes, a fact not in evidence, they STILL drive the wage price down in every industry. 36-42% are on welfare/food stamps and the make up {depending on the info source} 20-33% of the prison population.

You cannot reconcile the cost of keeping them with what the supposedly pay into the system. But the PRO-illegal alien ubber-liberals would have you believe they are peace loving, subserviant people who want to clean our dirty toilets for us.

it just aint so.

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Male 1,129
f*ck and i love mexican food.
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Male 66
If you can`t compete with a mexican for a job, quit competing.
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Male 49
@Gerry1of1
I don`t support the idea of immigration, illegal or otherwise.

Still, economists are finding that they are indeed good for our economy- they have fueled growth, and they are paying a lot of taxes into the system. They tend to be good for the fed but bad for individual states. It`s a small margin, but it is positive. Why else would we be so limp wristed with enforcing it?
The problem here, though, is our economy and culture. You didn`t lose your jobs because of immigrants, you lost them because of corrupt employers who put the bottom line above all else.

We could solve the problem by letting illegals know they could get citizenship if they reported employers who had unfair wages and unsafe conditions. We could solve it by increasing trade with Mexico and helping them with their cartel problems. But we don`t, and won`t, because our government doesn`t want to ruin a "good thing".
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Male 10,338
Well Mexico IS "Southern U.S." lol.
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Male 551
That`s because Mexico isn`t a part of IAB...



Don`t worry
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Male 10,338
@iceblack: Your profile says South America. Sorry `bout that.
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Male 551
@auburnjunky
I`m from Northern Mexico and I was being sarcastic, IT IS the
way it has to be if people want to keep Capitalism

@LazyMe484
It is a 3rd world country, c`mon... Just because we have like, what?
5 "big" cities, (Including Juarez which is basically El Paso`s backyard),
doesn`t mean we aren`t... And no, I`m not rejecting Capitalism, I`m actually
saying it has it`s pros and cons, you can`t just have the good things
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Male 10,440
Actually, I take that back Gerry makes some good points, but wouldn`t all that be solved by making them legal?

They would start paying taxes, and make minimum wage, rather than less.

If the price of unskilled labor is that cheap, construction projects should, in turn, also be cheaper. Sounds like your construction industry is raking it in.
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Male 40,250

Okay, done with my tirade. But I have been forced out of two careers by those damn mexicans and I`m having to start all over again all over again because of them. So I can speak with authority, they DO take our jobs.

[/soapbox]
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Male 10,440
@Deviros, that is sort of what we have. There is no tax on groceries, and if you make less than a certain amount, you don`t pay any income tax. It`s about $10k, more if you`re a student or live in the north or have dependents...

Beyond this is an incremental income tax that starts at 15% and climbs to 25%, last time I checked anyway...

It`s not perfect, but it`s better than a flat tax on everything.

@fiveanthems I agree with that. Nicely put.

[quote] How many of the 9% of Americans that are unemployed would like to have these jobs. [/quote]
I`m pretty sure a sizable chunk out of that 9% would rather collect unemployment than work a terrible job.
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Male 40,250

fiveanthems - [quote]"They`re also integral to our agricultural industry" [/quote]
Picking strawberries was a typical summer job for me and other in high school, so yes, americans do do that kind of work.

The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa`s "How Much Is That Tomato?" The study concludes that since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers` profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter ... hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.
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Male 40,250

fiveanthems [quote]"They DO contribute to our society- most pay taxes and social security, but they can`t take advantage of these ever." [/quote]
Illegal aliens absolutely do not contribute more than they cost. Certainly the millions in prison and on welfare aren`t contributing a dime to our economy, and the ones who are working often are paid in cash with no deductions for taxes at all. The ones who use fraudulent social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes. Lou Dobbs report some pay less than $100 in taxes and get back $4,000 refunds (thanks to earned income tax credits and multiple dependents).Some bargain, eh?
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Male 40,250

@ fiveanthems

You have been listening to stereotype propoganda. "They take jobs Americans don`t want." They are not all fruitpickers, gardeners or dishwashers. They are also painters, contractors, roofer, virtually every job in the construction business.
They are also truck drivers, in home health care people, security, house cleaners and waitresses.

In the 80`s a job at the Omaha stockyards paid $17.00 per hour. Now it`s full of illegals who are paid less than minimum. A few legals get minimum wage so the authorities don`t close them down. NO ONE gets benefits. The people who used to hold those jobs were forced out and had to look elsewhere.
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Male 10,440
Mexico is not a 3rd world country. They aren`t nearly that badly off, get your facts strait.

One would think that with such a huge border and such intense trade and tourism between you, you`d have more of a say in their affairs.

You can`t solve this problem with a wall nor by rejecting capitalism.
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Male 10,338
"How many children do you hear saying they want to be dishwashers, janitors, fruitpickers, and so on?"

How many of the 9% of Americans that are unemployed would like to have these jobs.

Just saying.

The illegals that do work, are either paid under the table untaxed, or they are paid under a flase SSN and do pay taxes, but they use our services when they aren`t entitled to them, so they break even.

They DO NOT contribute.
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Male 49
@gerry1of1: they don`t compete for the same jobs. We have made the jobs they take seem shameful and embarrassing to our kids. How many children do you hear saying they want to be dishwashers, janitors, fruitpickers, and so on? And how many americans are really lining up to work these jobs?

They DO contribute to our society- most pay taxes and social security, but they can`t take advantage of these ever. They`re also integral to our agricultural industry.

In fact, it`s likely that our government is so soft on catching and deporting them because of how beneficial it is to our country- they are nearly slaves and they are happy for the opportunity to make a living.

@auburnjunky: the problem I see with capitalism is that we ARE giving up our way of life. Slowly, citizens rights are slipping out the door as favors to our politicians business interests. Corporations would love to see us have the same rights and wages as workers in China.

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Male 535
@DickenMcHunt:

The fair tax that II`m referring to would be the abolition of income tax, and the subsequent taxation of non-essential goods somewhere around 23%-30%.

No one gets out of that. Want that new 62" TV? K - enjoy it, ,but pay us. Want that bag of groceries? Ok - no tax.

Key is though - you take home all of your pay, and if you choose to pay the government some of it because you want more than the basic necessities to live, then by all means, go ahead, but you`re not working 30-40% of the year just to _give_ your money to dumbass Uncle Sam.

The poor win out in this case because they don`t pay income tax and they can maybe actually afford to feed their families, and the rich get boned when they buy a $50million - that becomes a $65million - yacht - which as far as i`m concerned, is something that should never be able to be written off anyway.
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Male 10,338
What part of South America are you from iceblack?

Wherever it is, must be socialist. You are a freaking moron if you think we would trade Capitalism for socialism. We will build a 50ft. wall on the border, before we give up our way of life.
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Male 551
@LazyMe484

"Change Mexico"...
Man, all these years and you JUST came out and said it,
what took you so long?...

I said everything I needed to say on my previous post,
if you care to see an answer to that simplistic, almost
moronic suggestion (Even if it was sarcasm) then read it
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Male 10,338
@lazy: It`s not up to us to change it. We also cannot afford to do it.
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Male 10,440
Also, it seems a little counter intuitive, or maybe even counter productive to penalize businesses for hiring illegals. If they make money, they`ll pay income tax, which is money in your gov`t`s pocket.

This war on illegals of yours seems doomed to fail for obvious reasons, just like your war on drugs.
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Male 10,440
I`m just gonna throw this out there...

Change Mexico.
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Male 10,338
"This isn`t the "show me your papers" law."

Which would also be okay.
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Male 4,014
This isn`t even controversial. I`m fine with this law. This isn`t the "show me your papers" law.
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Male 10,338
YAY! Excellent decision!
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Male 40,250

I appreciate they only come here to improve their lives.
My problem with them is that they drag our standard of living down in the process. They compete for the same jobs you and I do but for far less money making it impossible to find decent wages or benifits. They`re usually paid cash or under-the-table so they pay no taxes but soak up hundreds of millions in social services.

We don`t have enough jobs for us now.
Schools are overcrowded and bankrupt so we can`t continue to support the children of people who do not contribute to society.
They cram our jails which costs tons of money.

America is broke.
We can`t afford illegal aliens.
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Male 551
Look, as much as I hate to admit it... This is the game:
- Mexico is a 3rd world country
- USA is a 1st world country with a HUGE border

The center-periphery model tells us this: THERE ARE GOING TO
BE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS TRYING TO GET TO THE 1ST WORLD
Because there aren`t enough opportunities in their own countries,
there just aren`t, and that`s just because of the
international division of labour

Now, how do you solve it? Pfft, why easy actually...
End with Capitalism! Told ya it was easy

That`s the deal, you want a capitalist world? Live with the
consequences as well. Want the best people for every scientific
field there is? Deal with the other not-so-wanted people who can
get a place in your country under the same circumstances for
the ones you like
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Male 551
@flingspoo

And exactly how are you going to do that with a $14.32 trillion
deficit?
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Male 49
Maybe he was just lazy, or afraid, or thought his wife being legal would prevent him from being deported? Maybe he even had a criminal record that would prevent him from citizenship. My point is more that the legal ways are more difficult and in some ways risky than the illegal ones.

I actually think buying Mexico would be a superior choice to building a border fence. Ultimately, the problem is that we end up with a lot of the most enterprising people from these countries, which means there will be fewer people to deal with the problems they face in their home countries.
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Female 999
But they aren`t becoming legal when they get here.

A family in our church was here originally illegally, they both got work visas, she became legal, he let his expire (his parents brought him when he was 3) and got deported. His wife and their kids all moved to Mexico cause he wasn`t allowed back. I don`t get why he let it expire?
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Male 49
@flingspoo:
They come over here illegally because they want better lives for their families, and the process to come over here costs thousands of dollars per person which they obviously don`t have, and won`t get back if rejected. It`s more feasible for them to risk crossing the border to get a job here (where we exploit them and their status,) then become legal once they are here.

Illegal immigration is GREAT for our economy, this is why we are so halfhearted in cracking down on it. It supports social security and medicare, and they are taking jobs we think are beneath us.
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Female 999
We could just buy Mexico?
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Female 999
When a person gets caught stealing from a store, they get arrested. Why is there such shock and commotion when there are consequences for hopping the border? I don`t wanna tear apart families, but there are legal ways to get here. Saying
"they`re Mexicans, they`re too stupid to understand these things" is no longer an acceptable excuse.
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Male 1,299
"a) fair/flat tax (with no income tax)
b) legalize them or kick `em out. "

Option A.) is meaningless and would only effect middle and lower class citizens. Companies/Business have completely different tax codes and the well-of ("rich people") are capable of avoiding taxation through a variety of means. Essentially, there is already a "flat tax" (it`s called "taxes") on the people that would pay it, and the people that wouldn`t already don`t.

Option B.) is largely a waste of money- it costs to hunt down and deporting someone, for what gain? Doing the same but forcing them through our current legalization process is equally a money sink- as it takes years and years and requires a great deal of hoop jumping.

We need to reform how people become legal American citizens, and reinforce the benefits of becoming legal over remaining illegal so that they do all the legwork for us.
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Male 1,299
This is the correct course of action, and frankly the only course of action that Arizona should have pursued- everything else they`ve attempted has been downright stupid.
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Male 183
I`ve worked for a number of years in construction and restaurants. This is how the problem will be fixed. Construction firms who can underbid because they are paying less in wages. Restaurant owners making higher profits by paying under the table since they can`t confirm paperwork.
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2,888
[quote]America should be making an effort to make those illegal immigrants legal, not deporting them back to their home country.[/quote]

i work at a community college in SW AZ where one of the biggest things we do is citizenship classes. if your an illegal and you come here, they wont deport you, they help you become a citizen. the programs are there, but the illegals have to make the effort to go. most of them dont want to become citizens, they want to make some money and go home. sure, good for them but i dont want my country being exploited that way.
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Male 40,250

Standards - [quote]"America should be making an effort to make those illegal immigrants legal" [/quote]
I applaud your compassion, but we tried that and it failed.

In the 80`s Pres. Reagan said all 6 million illegals would be given amnesty. Turns out there were 18 million. After gaining status here they immediately had their cousins come up. It only gave new ones a base to work from. An uderground railway for illegal aliens.

So now we have a whole new crop. Estimates are 12 - 20 million illegals.
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Male 535
@hwkiller: hear hear! That`s the root of the problem. Humanitarianism is great and all, and I`m all for helping out the underprivileged, but there are _laws_ in place that dictate how people enter this country and work here legally.

When you have a country that is virtually bankrupt, and a fairly good sized chunk of your workforce is
a) not paying income taxes and
b) funneling that money _out_ of the country without a significant tax
you are essentially lowering the value of the country as a whole with every monetary unit that`s sent out.

There`s two ways to solve that.
a) fair/flat tax (with no income tax)
b) legalize them or kick `em out.

a) won`t happen because the Dems and Reps are morons.
b) There`s a process to be legal. They choose not to take it. So kick `em out.

a) is the better option though. Pity. Could really work out the best for all of us.
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Female 3
I am glad that someone is taking action. Our country is in a lot of trouble financially without having to support illegals. We need to close the borders, deport all illegals and start over fresh. This is a melting pot, but too many take it for granted. What about the word ILLEGAL do they not understand. If a person commits a crime then punish them, not slap them on the wrist. Sure the labor is cheap, but the tax dollars are not and the hospitals that have closed down due to illegals using up the system is not fair to citizens. They can go back to their country and help make it better. We need a break!!
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Male 875
we should be making a greater effort to deport `aliens`

*cough*mexicans*cough*
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Male 490
@Standards: "America" shouldn`t have to do anything for non-citizens. Sorry to say it, but they aren`t citizens and we have no political obligation toward them.
By all means, let them become legal immigrants, and allow such a streamlined process, but we have no obligation to make them legal. THEY have an obligation to become legal.

I don`t support immigration witch hunting, but businesses who are caught using illegal labor must suffer the consequences. Play the game fairly.
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Male 2,422
Good. Those businesses are the root of the problem by taking advantage of the practically free labor. And they should be forced to pay.
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Male 564
America should be making an effort to make those illegal immigrants legal, not deporting them back to their home country.
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Female 3,598
So? why shouldn`t they penalize businesses that are breaking the law? ya know, come to think of it, why would anyone hire anybody with no proof of id or eligibility to work anyways? any job i`ve ever had required me to give them an ID and my Soc. Sec. card and fill out TAX forms. i think businesses SHOULD be punished for hiring illegals, i pay taxes out of my wages, shouldn`t they have to too?
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Male 40,250
Link: Supreme Court Backs AZ Law Against Illegal Aliens [Rate Link] - States now have right to close businesses that hire illegals. Say goodbye to your favorite restaurants...
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