Genderless Baby In Canada Causing Controversy

Submitted by: edana42 6 years ago in

It begs the question--what does define gender? Its parents speak out about the public"s outcries.
There are 194 comments:
Male 16
its a boy
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Male 20
Caption fail. It doesn`t "beg the question", it raises it.
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Female 325
Oh for pity sake, why is this anyone`s business?? People beat on their kids, give them unhealthy food, expose them to things no child should be exposed to and one hippie couple decides to go gender-neutral and everyone has a hissy fit? Wait five minutes - you`ll know soon enough if the poor kid`s genitals dangle or not. Problem solved.
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Female 3
It`s funny how the people that are defending this couple keep saying that gender and sex is different, which is true, but clearly the couple think it is the same thing, otherwise why would they say they are hiding what is between its legs? Clearly the genitals between its legs is an identification of sex, not gender. There are plenty of people that can raise a genderless baby (my parents sort of did and they are somewhat traditional and conservative), however hiding the sex is not the way to do it. Knowing what people expect from me prepares me to deal with it in a healthy matter. Not telling the kid or people its sex is like not telling a kid to look both ways before crossing a street (ok I know it`s over-simplified). A good parent doesn`t want kids to fear the street (being themselves), but they don`t want them to get hit by a car (reality that the majority of society expects you to follow the gender rules), so they warn them. Also, the 5 year old is already having problems.
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Male 235
This kid will not fit into society. Men and women have different roles (sorry women`s libbers, but it`s a fact) and this kid will not know where he/she fits. Gender "Stereotypes" are there for a good reason. Men have certain roles to play, as do women. Anyone that defends this couple`s decision has obviously not thought this through.
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Female 614
auburnjunky, you`d think at around 30, you`d have outgrown these uneducated and very stubborn stances. you`re really not listening to what people are trying to tell you about gender and sex being different. why do you think people go through extensive operations to have their sex match their gender? sigh. you make us southerners look bad, and i apologize to the forum on behalf of him.
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Male 12,365
[quote]No. You guys have no facts to back up your claims. For years, it has been the consensus that men have penises and women have vaginas. Why has it changed?[/quote]

Are you that stupid or just trolling?

You have to be trolling. If you were as stupid as you`re pretending to be, you wouldn`t be able to read or write.

People keep telling you that `sex` and `gender` are different words with different meanings and you keep pretending that they`re the same word. Then you compound it by making silly claims about what other people are saying because you`re claiming that you can`t understand that two different words with different meanings are different words with different meanings.

You have to be trolling.
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Male 10,338
... fact of the matter is, you think my opinion is stupid, because it is different than yours.
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Male 10,338
...and No. I don`t think it would be automatic if my penis was cut off. Now if you cut off my testicles and I took estrogen supplements, that`s a different story.
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Male 10,338
No. You guys have no facts to back up your claims. For years, it has been the consensus that men have penises and women have vaginas. Why has it changed?
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Male 2,850
@auburnjunky

Oh it`s not because your opinion is different. It`s because your opinion is stupid.

You think you`d simply think and feel and act and live as a woman if I cut your penis off. Just like that.

And you can`t see why we think you`re stupid?
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Male 10,338
Yeah. I have a differing opinion. I must be stupid.
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Male 2,850
@sbeelz

He really doesn`t.
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Male 2,868
@auburnjunky- you have no idea what you`re talking about.
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Male 10,338
"if I kidnapped auburnjunky and surgically altered him into a female body, I`m pretty sure he would still identify himself as a male with a physical body that does not match his psychological aspect"

If I could no longer function as a male, I would function as a female. Period.

Then I would find you, and kill you.
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Female 515
I also have to agree with FatNinja01...attention seeking parents
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Female 515
I have to wonder...how many people saying there is nothing wrong with this actually have children?? Also, would any of them do the same to their child? I understand not forcing roles on your child but this is just simply absurd.
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Female 584
It`s Canada. Why am I not surprised. When I first saw this post I assumed that perhaps the child didn`t have any genitalia at all. But this experiment that the parents are performing on their child is in my opinion ludicrous. Wouldn`t it cause more confusion to the child if the parents treat him/her as a asexual being?
This seems to be just as wrong as the parents who say for instance want a boy really bad but have a girl and make her into a boy or vice versa.
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Male 2,850
@Heureux

"But simple minds pretend that their simplistic reality is everyone`s reality."

To borrow from the American parlance: Hoo boy, ain`t that the truth!
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Male 2,850
PS: for a simple illustration of how gender does not equal sex: if I kidnapped auburnjunky and surgically altered him into a female body, I`m pretty sure he would still identify himself as a male with a physical body that does not match his psychological aspect.

TL/DR: Gender is what`s in your head, sex is what`s between your legs. They don`t always match, and what`s between your legs does not necessarily control what`s in your head.
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Male 2,850
@auburnjunky

"Yes it drating does!"

It simply doesn`t. They are different words with different meanings. Often mistaken and conflated, but distinct nonetheless.

@davidildo123

"The parents are denying the sex of their kid."

Correct. They are. Do you know why?

So that people like auburnjunky here are unable to enforce gender roles on him or her based on the sex.

THAT is why they`re doing it; to allow the child to figure out their gender identity without being pushed one way or another by other people`s mistaken belief that gender is defined by physical sex.
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Female 64
who says boys HAVE to like blue, airplanes and firetrucks? and who says girls HAVE to like pink, dolls, and playing tea? the parents are not doing anythign wrong. this is so stupid.
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Male 559
lol`d hard @ auburnjunky
"get one sewn on"
LOL
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Male 10,338
Epic drating facepalm.

Here. Let me spell it out.

If you have a penis, but feel like a girl, then you are a boy who feels like a girl.

If you have a vagina, but you feel like a boy, then you are a girl who feels like a boy.

Yes it is that simple. Yes it is that black and white.

If you are having psychological issues with it (like this kid most definitely will), got get snipped, or go get one sewn on, whatever the case may be.

Until that day though, Boys have a penis, and girls have a vagina.

When you fill out a job application, do you answer the gender question based on how you feel that day?

Man: "Oh I`m feeling a bit girly today. I`ll check female."

Woman: "Oh I feel so masculine today! So strong! I`ll check Male!"

Whatever.
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Male 14
I have to agree with the parents on this one. it`s none of the world`s business. So long as the child isn`t being harmed, why does it matter how the parents raise him/her? the kid will learn its own gender role and ask questions when he/she is ready. this is NOT news worthy in the slightest.
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Male 2,868
@auburnjunky-
You`re confusing gender and sex. Sex is determined by your genital physiology. Gender is self-defined. Sexual orientation is who you are sexually attracted to. And just like sexual orientation and gender, sex is not binary.
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Male 1,054
"What you think you are, has no bearing on your gender.

Once again. Boys have a penis. Girls have a vagina."

If only life were so simple for everyone. But it isn`t, and there are people whose experienced gender does not match their physical body.

But simply minds pretend that their simplistic reality is everyone`s reality.
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Male 92
its a boy
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Male 10,338
What you think you are, has no bearing on your gender.

Once again. Boys have a penis. Girls have a vagina.
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Male 2,384
all babys look the same anyway, like weird aliens
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Male 210
No, the child does NOT have a defined gender. Gender and sex are totally different. Just because the child has a vagina or penis between their legs doesn`t mean they are male or female, mentally. I wish I had the chance to choose.
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Male 2,988
its a boy
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Female 876
I like the idea of this, but I feel like they`ve gone too far. Unless the child is intersex, it has a defined sex. They should raise the child to have a sex, while keeping the child`s gender ambiguous. Although I was raised to know what a vagina was and how it worked, I was encouraged to both play with Barbies and race dirt bikes. I was never taught to act a certain way because of my sex - except perhaps to sit to pee - and that is a healthy way to raise a child.

Of course, s/he isn`t old enough to be aware of what`s going on "down there" just yet, so we`ll have to see how it goes when the child gets older.
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Female 535
Being a transsexual I know I would have been far better off if my parents had done something like this. Before I could speak I had a sense of the gender I wanted to be and it was never the one others chose for me. That will phuck with your head. I always knew the choices I wanted to make and never could. It always seemed a stupid simple thing to me. Seriously though, it isn`t as though the child would be making the gender choices outside of a social setting. This means the child would be able to identify with others that it feels a gender similarity to and make real choices based in the real world. A child can know who it is even if picked on. I think the problem with folks who have an issue with this is that they do not understand how intelligent children can be about their own identities. Maybe not with other stuff, but you are you from the moment you are born and everybody else is pretty much in the dark about who that is until you come out with it. It`s nobody`s business.
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Male 143
Oh, I get it. =/= is supposed to mean not equal to.

In that case, Musucko42, you still miss the point. The parents are denying the sex of their kid. The child still has a sex, and by not recognizing that simple, basic, obvious fact, they are creating a problem where none exists. He/she is still whatever their biological gender says he/she is and fighting gender stereotypes is fine, but by denying the basic fact that there is a biological difference is just wrong. Factually wrong.
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Male 2,376
@greenbasterd

You wouldn`t feel happy to have been allowed to enjoy the things you like without the world telling you that you can`t do it for completely arbitrary reasons?

no i would be mad because now that im older i have to look back at the family pictures and be like wtf why am i wearing a dress?
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Female 177
its a boy

but its ridiculous that this is a major news story

I think they have good intentions
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Male 10,338
"Why do people care so much?"

It isn`t that we care. It`s really about how the child is innocent, and unaware that its (his/her) whole life is about to be screwed over by parents making a political/social statement.
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Male 1,081
What the hell do people care so much?
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Female 154
I think It`s none of my business and I don`t care
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Male 25,417
not sure on what to think, it could simply be just attention seeking parenting
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Male 237
I think it`s great
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Female 101
I don`t think it`s anyone`s business. The parent`s only mistake was taking this to the news.
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Male 10,338
@Musoko:

Yes it drating does! Jesus H Christ way are you guys this dense?!

If you are born with a Vagina, then you are a girl. If you are born with a penis, you are a boy.

If you are transgender, and you have the surgery, you are either a girl who has a dick, or a boy who had his cut off.

If you are transgender, and have not had the surgery, you are either a boy who thinks he is a girl, or a girl who thinks she is a boy.

There is no middle ground here, at all. These parents are stupid as all hell.

"Boys have a penis, and girls have a vagina." -Joseph, Kindergarten Cop
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Male 39
Attention Whores?
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Male 2,850
@ScissorFox

Once again, sex does not equal gender.

And biology isn`t the issue here: what stops a boy wearing a dress if he wants to is society, not his penis.
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Male 97
@lauriloo

So let me get this straight. You are all for gender manipulation. Even though psychologically it is valid to place that identifier on an individual because sexual identity is more than just a word or a choice. It boils down to biology and how similar yet completely different the male and female bodies function in every way shape and form. So yeah, I think the child deserves the right to know who he/she is.

You also mentioned something about religious beliefs which I thought was funny as it had nothing to do with your thesis at all and it made you look exponentially more stupid and close minded. I am not exactly a religious person myself. I was born with strong Catholic backgrounds yet I`ve formed my own beliefs in what is right or wrong. But to criticize religion is completely hypocritical of u as defined by your previous comment. It is part of human psychology to try to explain something that cant really be explained. Thus, believing in something, anything
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Male 2,850
@greenbasterd

You wouldn`t feel happy to have been allowed to enjoy the things you like without the world telling you that you can`t do it for completely arbitrary reasons?
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Male 2,376
these peoples other little boy wheres pink dresses.. if my parents let me wear a pink dress when i was to young to undertsand things.. i wouldn`t be happy.
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Male 10,338
@musuko: Thanks. That`s what I was shooting for. ;)
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Female 850
thought his brother was a sister.....
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Male 3,076
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Male 2,850
@auburnjunky

"This is true, because if you aren`t bat poo retarded, then your gender matches your genitalia, even if you`re gay."

I`m not sure how much more offensive and ignorant a person can be in a single sentence.

Congratulations, you win.
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Male 2,850
@auburnjunky

"Okay, fine. Call her a boy"

That`s exactly the REVERSE of what these parents are doing: they are letting the child decide what gender they want to be identified as, rather than deciding for him/her.

Seriously, why do you have such issue with this? It`s no weirder than letting the child choose their own name.
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Male 10,338
"they change the sex to match the gender, not change the gender to match the sex."

This is true, because if you aren`t bat poo retarded, then your gender matches your genitalia, even if you`re gay.
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Male 2,850
@madest

"His sex wasn`t changed."

Yes it was.

"The crudimentary changes doctors can make in reassignment surgery are to match what`s in their heads not what others perceive them to be."

That`s exactly what I said: they change the sex to match the gender, not change the gender to match the sex.

Are you even paying attention to what you`re reading?
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Male 411
Why doesn`t baptizing create such controversy?
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Female 1
Gender is defined by our culture.
Sex is determined at birth.
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Male 10,338
@pachouly:

"My daughter plays with dinosaurs and trucks and also likes dressing as a princess. She hates baby dolls,"

Okay, fine. Call her a boy, and prepare for the therapy bills when HE takes anatomy in school, or the kids at her school notice HIM growing boobs, or when HE gets a girlfriend......

Or you can do the sane thing, and call her girl, because she has a vagina.
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Male 39,533

What a great idea!
Another fun baby related experiment is drop one in with the apes
at the zoo and let them raise it. See if we gat a Tarzan
or something.
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Male 7,378
His sex wasn`t changed. The crudimentary changes doctors can make in reassignment surgery are to match what`s in their heads not what others perceive them to be.
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Male 2,850
@madest

"His story debunked sexual reassignment as a plausible form of psychology."

Gender =/= sex.

In crude terms, gender is in the head, sex is between your legs.

His sex was changed (by accident). They tried to change his gender to match his new sex. It failed.

When people have sex changes, it is to change the sex to match their gender, NOT the other way around.
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Male 96
Damn hippies
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Male 7,378
I remember story of a Canadian boy that lost his penis due to a botched circumcision. Parents raised him as a girl on the advice of psychologist. He eventually married a woman but when she wanted to separate he commited suicide. His story debunked sexual reassignment as a plausible form of psychology.
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Male 2,850
@davidildo123

"Gender stereotypes are one thing, but to deny a child their sexuality is just wrong."

Sexuality =/= sex =/= gender.

Unless you understand that, you should play no part in this conversation.
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Male 4,745
The whole world is nuts. Forcing a gender stereotype on a child is wrong. My daughter plays with dinosaurs and trucks and also likes dressing as a princess. She hates baby dolls, but likes kitchen stuff. We let her choose what she wants to like. We don`t force it on her. All you folks saying that not forcing is wrong, are just messed up.

Who cares if this kid is a boy or girl. The reason they aren`t saying is because they don`t want people buying stuff that will influence the child`s perspectives. Let a kid be a kid.
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Female 1,803
I LOVE how people just HAVE to know what sex a person is. Do you have to know in order to know how to treat it? I think that`s the point the parents are trying to make. They don`t want people to push their sex prejudices on their kid. Something all of you are apparently desperate to do or you wouldn`t be so upset. Can`t a person just be a human being and that be all you people need to know? Do you have to put a label on everything to be comfortable with it, as if putting a label on someone makes them less of a mystery for you? But, hey, that`s why so many people are dependent on religion to explain life`s mysteries. Even if the explanations are bogus, they make them feel less unsure.
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Male 161
it`s a boy. congratulations.
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Male 143
>>>>>You`re forcing the child to act the way you want him to be without giving him or her much of a choice. As someone who took and greatly enjoyed learning about Gender Psychology, I think this is actually a great idea<<<<<

Yes. That is called being a parent. Infants are really horrible about making choices, that is why control their environment and don`t give em toasters to play with. As someone who took and greatly enjoyed, Being A Parent, I think this is an idea best considered as a thought expirement and not one to subject an actual human to.
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Female 3,001
that baby is clearly a boy
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Male 143
This is just stupid. Gender stereotypes are one thing, but to deny a child their sexuality is just wrong. It is undeniably a female or a male, regardless of how you choose to label their gender socially.

One does not have to deny a childs biological gender to raise them free of the stereotypes that accompany the social gender of that kid. They still have either testes or ovaries and xx or xy chromosones.
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Male 182
@LuckyDave

You could replace the word "Furries" with any other word and your post still wouldn`t make any more sense in the context of this discussion.

One word to prove that?

ONIONS
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Female 570
I don`t think they are wrong per say, i just think they are taking it a bit too far.
also, that baby looks like a boy.
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Male 695
Oh lol, I just noticed squoggle already posted the same thing. My bad :P
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Male 695
I`ve seen a documentary where something similair happened. A boy`s privates were severely damaged during circumcision and they decided to just raise him as a girl. He ended up committing suicide.
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Male 176
PIGTAILS?!?!?!?!?!? ok ok ok, I can deal with this, I`m just gonna think of him as a viking, I`m ok with it now.
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Male 405
I like the idea, but surely the way to go for this would be the same way they`ve decided to raise their other two sons?
It just seems a little extreme to isolate the child and make it so different.
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Male 4,546
"It`s their baby not yours".

Logic: Arguments that are valid, work outside of context.

Yours does not.
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Male 4,546
Not pushing gender stereotypes: Positive effects.
Having your child referred to as "it" until it grows up: ... Yeah, they`re gonna be fiiiiiine.

Small detail:
Their other kids are all out of school now due to bullying.
The kids pick what they want to learn are, are getting no curriculum, aren`t socializing with other kids.
They are being encouraged to fit opposite expectations to the stereotypes which is just as bad as nudging them the other way plus the addition of social ostracism.

Also, it`s a boy.
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Male 5,413
It`s their baby not yours.
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Male 2,850
@Frankii
Female, 13-17, Europe

"What`s wrong with gender stereotypes? They`re not all bad and, as with all stereotypes, are there because they`re at least a bit true"

You`re right.

Now get back to the kitchen and stop filling your pretty little head with silly thoughts and ideas. Go do what women are meant for: do the cooking and cleaning, and make yourself look attractive so you can one day give a man a baby.

You utter...utter moron.
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Female 158
If every parent did this, children would grow up happier but this is going to isolate them. Essentially though, they`re putting a lot more effort into being a parent than a LOT of people

Kinda related, - there was a boy who`s penis was burnt off in an accident so his parents raised him as a girl but he was all confused as a girl and was depressed, so he had a sex change back but he ended up committing suicide after a divorce

The nature side is so obvious that stereotypes don`t NEED to be pushed onto people, and this way would be free for everyone, but you know, the only baby doing this
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Male 22
Yeah make your child a social experiment. That probably wont backfire.
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Female 142
The parents aren`t doing anything wrong. The kid will quickly find out what its gender is when it goes to school.
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Male 792
It doesn`t work. We tried not stereotyping our children when they were infants as a "boy" or "girl" (though, we didn`t go to this extreme)...my girl still gravitated towards dolls and stuffed animals, and my boy gravitated to trucks and superheroes.
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Female 512
It`s often quite easy to tell what gender a baby is simply by looking at their face...Storm looks like a boy.

As for gender stereotypes & all that...it never ceases to amaze me how much of all that is actually hardwired into us & has nothing to do with what the parents do to dissuade or encourage them. I have a son & 2 daughters & deliberately always gave/give all of them both cars & dolls to play with, etc. I was all for equal-opportunity-gender roles. My son plays completely differently to the way the girls play...he`s busy & boisterous & likes to play with cars & blocks (& often makes the cars crash in to the blocks). Whereas the girls gravitated towards dolls & nurturing soft toys, etc...& they play quieter games that don`t normally involve smashing or yelling. `Nature` is a strong force when they`re little...
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Male 133
They are attention whores. They most definitely don`t have the welfare of the child in their hearts, all they want is people to look at them. Pretty sad.
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Male 237
I wish I was liberal enough to know what was best for everyone no matter what

wait, isn`t that was the religious do?

You`re all idiots.
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Female 956
who...cares...
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Male 247
Yep, raise the child as a girl, end up hurting him if he turns out to be a boy vice versa. vry smart psychologist obviously has no credibility.
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Female 457
@BostonKaiser: I`m not going to get dragged into a whole debate, but suffice it to say that home schooling is not a mindf*ck if done correctly. I was home schooled, and not only am I more socially adjusted than a major portion of most publicly schooled Americans (can`t speak for the schools in other countries), but I feel now that I got a better education for living in the real world than most people got before being shell-shocked when they were dunked head first into college and after.

Yeah, some people go overboard and try to over-protect their children, (I would totally NOT recommend that these parents home school. lol!). But the vast majority of home schooled kids are well adjusted, intelligent, socially competent, and better mannered than most.

*steps down off soapbox*

Continue. :)
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Female 1,324
I honestly don`t see anything wrong with it. I mean, the people who buy all blue for boys and all pink for girls is ridiculous anyway. Just pick unisex things until they`re old enough to decide on their own. It`ll be interesting to hear what happens if they keep updated on it. Just because they aren`t bombarded into certain gender roles doesn`t mean they wont fall into them eventually anyway.
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Male 464
That poor poor boy! His life is, effectively, ruined, because of his douchebag parents
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Male 645
I can`t believe this kind of thing is what makes up a large part of our daily "news". Does anyone else not give a poo about this entire situation or is it just me...
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Female 437
What`s wrong with gender stereotypes? They`re not all bad and, as with all stereotypes, are there because they`re at least a bit true
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Male 675
This is great and all, yay for sticking up against social norms, but society has social norms for different various, and sometimes good, reasons.

One word to defend this?

FURRIES
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Male 1,215
Wow, now they just need to home school him/her to complete the mindf*ck.
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Male 4,902

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Male 182
Sleep Away Camp anyone.

Oh and its obviously a boy.
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Male 12,365
[quote]all gender arguments aside, the kid clearly needs a gender assigned to it, for the sake of pronouns.[/quote]

`them` will do. It`s an ungendered pronoun that doesn`t have the "not a person" implication of `it`. OK, it`s plural, but English is full of words with multiple meanings dependent on context. One more won`t hurt. It can double up as an ungendered singular person pronoun and it`s much more likely to catch on than making one up and trying to push it into the language.

Old English handled it better - words had an ungendered form and could be gendered by adding a sex-word as a prefix. Compound words can be unwieldy, but that`s fixed by smoothing them together (e.g. wif (female) + man (person) = wifman, smoothed together into woman).
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Female 4,086
i read the story on yahoo about a week ago and the parents are complete and utter morons. i encourage anyone out there to look it up and see what they`re putting their other two sons through.

being a parent means taking responsibility for another (at this time) helpless human being and doing right by them. its always amazing to me that you need a license to drive but just about anyone can have a kid.
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Male 1,083
giving them freedom of who or what they want to be is nice and all but i hope they`re prepared for other kids making fun of them or bullying them if they turn out to be outcasts.
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Male 177
@HalfPintRoo

Sex is whether you have a penis or vagina. Gender is how the child is raised, i.e. "gender roles," not "sex roles." Males are typically seen as masculine and females as feminine. By telling everyone the child is male or female the stereotypes (as explained in the video) with be forced upon the child. Do you have a boy? You`ll probably give him toy trucks and balls. Have a girl? You`ll probably give her dolls and a lot of pink.

You`re forcing the child to act the way you want him to be without giving him or her much of a choice. As someone who took and greatly enjoyed learning about Gender Psychology, I think this is actually a great idea. It will certainly be interesting to see how this turns out years from now or if nothing will really be "different" with the child.
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Male 95
all gender arguments aside, the kid clearly needs a gender assigned to it, for the sake of pronouns.

Referring to it as an `it` is dehumanizing, like there`s somethign wrong with it. and `he or she`, `him or her`, `his or hers` is unacceptable, because that defeats the purpose of using a pronoun.
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Male 1,378
Wow, that will be hurting the child? what a douchebag
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Male 897
I think that the world should be far more concerned with the fact that this child has a Bad Ass Name!
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Female 2,761
Gender is whether you have a penis or a vagina.

It is ok to tell your kid they are a boy or a girl.

Just don`t buy your kid one kind of toy over another. Barbies AND GI Joes. Hot wheels AND tea sets.

Isn`t that enough? Do we really have to keep the identity of their genitals from them?
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Male 2,004
i don`t think that is a good idea, but personally i would like to see how he behaves when hes older
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Male 12,365
[quote]ANGILION: WIN[/quote]

I`ve just looked back a couple of pages and seen other people saying the same thing. I rather like souladdict22`s more succinct explanation:

[quote]Gender is socially defined. Sex is biologically defined.[/quote]
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Male 63
I agree with these people completely. Only an idiot would see something like this and decide immediately that it should be stopped. I applaud these people for allowing the child to develop its own sense of sexual identity.
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Male 848
ANGILION: WIN
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Male 2,690
This is beyond stupid.
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Male 12,365
[quote]GENDER IS DEFINED BY SEX![/quote]

No, it isn`t. Gender is defined by whatever bunch of stuff is generally considered gendered in any given time and place. It changes often, both from place to place and over time in the same place.

Gender is about masculine and feminine, not male and female.

Random example:

Here in England, over a space of less than 100 years, pink changed from being gendered strongly masculine to being gendered extremely strongly feminine and is now changing again towards ungendered.

Basically, gender is whatever collection of stereotypes is normal at that time and place. It doesn`t really have any connection to sex at all.
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Male 15,510
Parents now days have forgotten what parents really have to be
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Female 245
If I ever get children, I`m going to do this, too.
I hate gender roles and the way people treat kids differently based on their gender.
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Male 2,344
@Cobra but their son jazz is a girl, they`ve brainwashed into thinking is a boy...

PLOT TWIST
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Male 1,151
no one cares
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Male 848
...that`s the idea, jessly. Giving the child the freedom to decide who it is by itself without other people in society treating it as male/female from the second the child is born.
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Male 7,811
im going with girl because it looks like a boy. i say this because their son jazz looks like a girl.
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Female 62
it`s not like the kid won`t figure it out on it`s own anyways.
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Male 219
Mind your own fu&king business, fu9k!
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Male 2,056
why couldn`t this just stay in sweden or where ever where it originated?
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Male 76
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Female 3,598
why is everyone so concerned? plenty of needy kids out there that could use the attention but instead we bicker about the choices of these parents who no matter what are going to care for and provide for this child? i think we all have our piorities a little skewed.
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Male 2,486
Put it inbetween a kitchen and an xbox, whichever one it goes to first will define the gender. If it goes to the kitchen it better damn well stay in there.
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Female 52
personally i don`t give a bloody damn if the child is a boy or a girl. also, i don`t think there is going to be any adverse affects. my sister gave her son a doll every year for christmas, and he is great with kids and will be a wonderful father. she gave her daughter a truck for christmas and she can do her own mechanic work, is married with 3 kids and does the same thing. nothing wrong with those kids.
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Male 164
First bag milk, now genderless babies. Damn never thought Canada was so exotic.
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Male 108
@ the windy
They`re going to be called all sorts of crap in their life and be told they`re wrong all the time by people who don`t love them. These kids are doomed once they leave the secuity of home and the protection of their parents. You know it. I know it.
I hate people like this. They`re the kind who live in freaking cupcakes and fart rainbows. They teach their children that life is all flowers and nobody can tell them what to do. It doesn`t suprise me that their mother would have a boy-ish haircut and and an older son who looks like a little girl. All they`re doing is setting their children up to be eaten alive by other kids, and by people who don`t give a crap about their feelings and the fake P.C. world they live in. Poor, poor kids.
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Male 761
1. Ugly baby
2. It`s a boy
3. Why the hell would anyone care?
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Male 7
Let`s also not impose on him/her which language to speak, what to call numbers, what math symbols mean, what a colors are called, or names of any emotions... That way he/she will independently decide what these mean to him/her.

good answer
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Male 848
AuburnJunky:

What about intersexed or transgender folk?
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Male 934
Is this going to make this kid`s life more difficult? Oh yeah.

That said, out of all the ways parents have managed to drat up their children`s lives over the years, this is pretty tame.
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Male 848
NexusLetum:

That`s confusing terminology. Every person i know who talks about or studies gender identity, sex etc uses gender to mean gender identity and sex to mean biological sex.

Having gender mean the same as sex is needlessly complicated.
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Male 39,533

auburnjunky - [quote]"GENDER IS DEFINED BY SEX!" [/quote]

No, actually, it`s not. ORIENTATION is defined by sex. Or rather SEX is defined by ORIENTATION.

GENDER is defined by whether you have an outie or an innie.
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Female 136
To all:

Gender = Sex: as defined by genitalia and genes.

Gender Identity: What gender you consider yourself.

That is all.
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Male 626
It`s obviously a boy. Just look at it.
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Male 757
somebody is OBVIOUSLY developing FEV, hes gonna grow up to be yellow. on a more serious note, he obviously is a he but whats it really matter?
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Male 10,338
"but you`ve still confused gender with sex."

GENDER IS DEFINED BY SEX!

Damn is it so hard?!

I for one do not want the Earth to become filled with a bunch of androgynous, whiny, bags of feelings.
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Male 848
Very informative, imatwirp, but you`ve still confused gender with sex.
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Male 74
Gender is determined by many genes. To explain... All humans start with generic genitalia that resemble female genitalia more than a males`.
The presence of the SRY gene on the Y chromosome is what gives the child a testicular sac, a penis, and the gonads develop into testis.
There have been cases where there was a mutation in the SRY gene and receptors that causes a male, with female parts. In other words. An XY individual with boobs, and a vagina.

There is more going on in the body that you can imagine that determines sex/gender.
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Male 3,745
"Am I the only one who looked at that kid and knew it was a boy?"

no...
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Female 1,589
I have no problem with this. I don`t think the child will grow up depressed or confused. They will be called what they want to be called once they are sure on how they feel inside. And no one can say they are wrong, because no one will know their actual gender (except for the parents, who already don`t care what their child wants to live life as). The parents have to talk to their kid before they start learning the human anatomy in school though if they do choose to be the opposite gender they were born.
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Male 3,745
who the drat cares if its a boy or a girl...why the drat is this even news?
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Male 130
I`m for this new type of developpement. I`d like to see how it works out when the child gets older. The reason psychologist don`t want this to happen is because it can put into question Sigmund Freuds work and these one minded psychologist wouldn`t be able to handle that.Asides from that its no one elses buisness except for the couples. There are so many worse things happening right now.
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Female 80
WHen I worked at Ren fest there was people who didn`t believe in gender stereotyping their kids. I realize it isnt the same thing but I couldn`t tell what was what. It was common to see boys with long hair and flowers in it and girls with short hair and blue overalls. They all seemed happy
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Male 512
Wow. This post sure has brought the AIB nuts out of the woodwork. Some of these posts, like "flingspoo,"Joeracoon" and "Paperduck," actually make Gerry or Crakr look pretty mundane by comparison. Leaping to absurd extremes, recommending child molestation, a conspiracy by two gay people. Priceless. ;~)
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Male 178
Gender is socially defined. Sex is biologically defined.
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Male 178
I like this.
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Male 10,338
"what does define gender?"

Ummm, let me think about it...

Genitalia! Period.

If it has a penis, it`s a boy. If it has a vagina, it`s a girl. These parents are idiots, and are going to spend thousands in therapy later.
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Male 10,440
[quote] To deliberatly subject a child to a sick "experiment" should result in criminal charges and jailtime for the parents.
[/quote]
It`s a good thing that practically nobody shares your views.
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Male 1,745
Let`s also not impose on him/her which language to speak, what to call numbers, what math symbols mean, what a colors are called, or names of any emotions... That way he/she will independently decide what these mean to him/her.
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Male 24
"It`s been done before, in Canada, and FAILED miserably! ie: lifelong depression and suicide."

Care to elaborate?

"A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl. 99.99% of the time this rule works just fine."

Keep on squaring that circle 5Cats.
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Female 15
Either way, growing up isn`t easy. Perhaps they have eliminated the pressure of having to fit into societies "gender norms" but therein created the problem of feeling exiled and odd around other children. I applaud the parents for giving their baby and children a choice, whether or not it imposes new problems, I believe it will shape strong individuals, people who will speak out for what they believe in, and put pressure on the world to give their children a choice. I know when I talk about having a child, I tell everyone that I will not be doing blue or pink, or decorating the room or picking out clothes based on the gender. I am going to yellows and greens, soft browns and reds. I want my child to form opinions of the world his/herself, without pressure to be what I want them to be, or what the world says they should be.
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Male 848
oh my ducking lord the amount of ignorance in these comments is unbelievable. You`re not usually this bad, folks.
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Male 191
Yeah, the parents might be gay, and decided to be together to have a family, and if homosexuality is actually in the genes, this seems like a good way to raise the child. The real question is: Why is this on the news?
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Female 302
@ RobSwindol

Technically, gender is a choice. You`re confusing "gender" with "sex".

World Health Organization
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Female 999
I bet they`re gonna be mad if their kids end up straight.
Why don`t they just molest the kid to make it effed up? Wouldn`t that be easier than this?
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Male 2,796
First: The child also didn`t ask to be born and therefore was "drafted" into a world where perception is reality and unfortunately the reality is that people are drating stupid.

I applaude the parents. It`s nobodies drating business.
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Male 418
Am I the only one who looked at that kid and knew it was a boy?
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Male 1,196
it`s a boy
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Male 3,894
"What defines gender?

Easy...

GENETALS!!![sic]"

You uh... realize that some people are born with both sets of genitals, right?

I`d say your best shot is their sex chromosomes... XY or XX. Although even then you can have babies born with XXY, etc.

And of course there are a lot of born-men out there who feel more comfortable being a "her" and vice versa.

So maybe it should be whatever they want to define themselves as. And, really... the kid`s gender doesn`t have to be anybody else`s business.

Finally.. That kid`s totally a boy.
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Female 455
To begin with, I thought the baby was actually androgynous, in which case I could understand not pushing one gender or another onto it, but this is just odd. I hope the kid comes out of it stronger, like they seem to think it will, rather than totally messed up from years of bullying. I understand what they`re trying to say, but they`re potentially risking their childrens` happiness by turning them into experiments.
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Male 1,008
only in canada......
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Male 1,435
While I can see the reasoning behind this let`s not forget the facts that the parents are hippies, especially with giving their children names like Jazz and Storm.
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Male 5,314
OH GOD. I dratING RAGED!!!!!! FUUUUUUUUUUU
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Male 2,528
What defines gender?

Easy...

GENETALS!!!

Gender isn`t a frame of mind. Gender isn`t a choice. Gender isn`t a "controlling factor". Gender isn`t a big deal (unless you make it one).
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Male 226
The gender of my child is not the world`s business.

But how will we attack them with marketing campaigns?!?!?!
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Male 132
PS I think braids are alright, but pigtails are hideous. Just my opinion
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Male 2,033
"what does define gender?"

Um..the genitals.

Also...damn that baby is ugly.
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Male 132
I remember a neighbor boy asked his mom to have red fingernail polish like his Little sister. When I saw it I instinctively said `boys don`t wear fingernail polish.` and it was enough to to the kid to demand his mom remove the polish.

One day, if these kids are not shut-ins,they will be told the difference between boy and girl and made to choose just to fit into whatever group they like more. They will STILL CONFORM no matter what.

Conforming to the non-conformist is still conforming
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Female 262
@5cats - Have you ever read/seen The 10th Kingdom?
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Male 71
and why is this stuff on the news? honestly who cares? it really is noone else`s business except their own -_- people really have nothing better to do sometimes
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Female 262
I think that the parents can raise their kids however they want to. But it`s a little weird for them to think that the children are deciding these things completely for themselves, I`m sure that someone/something will influence them to make decisions. It`s presumptuous of the parents to think that we`re born the people we`re going to become.
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Male 40,277
These people are IDIOTS!
It`s been done before, in Canada, and FAILED miserably! ie: lifelong depression and suicide.

A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl. 99.99% of the time this rule works just fine.

To deliberatly subject a child to a sick "experiment" should result in criminal charges and jailtime for the parents.

*huff! puff!*

There, I think I got it all out, thx!
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Female 166
Jizz isn`t in for a hard life. One of the hottest guys I know wheres his long black hair in a braid sometimes. He is intelligent, hard working and gets hit on constantly by women. Eh. I say let people do whatever. They obviously love their kids they just have different views. I wouldn`t do it but they seem educated enough. Leave them alone.
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Male 2,593
Yea, it`s undoubtedly a boy.
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Male 1,598
I can see both sides to this. They won`t be forcing their child into any predetermined gender roles, which I really do appreciate, but on the other hand he/she will probably be confused if they don`t tell him what sex he/she physically is.

The line at the beginning about "the world doesn`t need to know what`s between our baby`s legs, because it`s voyeuristic" initially made me think they were just being stupid. Knowing a gender has NOTHING to do with pedophilia.
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Male 1,451
Who cares? Let the people live their lives. The fact that this is national US news weirds me out.

Although, I would be very interested to see how the children turn out in 10, 15, 20 years. The older son with the pigtails, for example. I can see him either embracing that as a teen and being a stronger person because of it or possibly having culture shock when he is teased for being "a girl" and becoming another "it gets better" statistic.
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Male 295
Didn`t this happen in a tv show?
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Male 606
It`s a boy. End of story.
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Female 57



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Male 39,533

I feel bad for their older boy, Jazz.
First those braids. Kids are gonna make fun of him, and if they last till high school, kick his ass. And you know what knick-name the kids will use for Jazz ... Jizz! It`s the most obvious name.

Poor Jizz. He`s in for a hard life.

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Male 848
@a1butcher

This family isn`t the first to try this.
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Male 848
@Theyoyoguy

You appear to be confusing gender and sex. Please educate yourself.
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Male 2,436
Meh, looks like a boy. Parents are bat-s h i t crazy though...
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Male 4,807

Finally someone with the balls to try this experiment. Should be good for science and I`m looking forward to seeing what the outcome will be in a few years.
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Male 462
We`re gonna find out what gender it is in the long run anyway. The baby will learn he`s a boy and everyone will get on with their lives. The only way for them to truly hide his gender is to remove his private parts, and undergo facial reconstructive surgery to remove any gender defining characteristics.
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Female 2,027
bet it grows up to be queer whatever it is
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Male 535
...I`m not really seeing the point here. I cannot even begin to understand how this has hit the news - at all.

Not to mention the fact that the idea that the child will "form it`s own gender roles" is a bit odd - at some point, he/she is going to realize that they either do or don`t have dangly bits, and that other children of different sexes will probably _ask_ the child if they are a boy or girl and the first time it (see - i`m calling a human "it" - this isn`t healthy) says "I don`t know" the concept of dangly bits will be explained.

The pigtailed boy, though, now that`s just odd.

Still sounds like a massive case of attention whoring to me though =/
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Male 678
Mind your own [email protected] business people!
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Male 677
I`m pretty sure that`s a boy.
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Male 875
who cares? their kids will grow up to be gay anyway
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Male 1,091
It`s obviously a boy, who cares...
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Female 2,509
Link: Genderless Baby In Canada Causing Controversy [Rate Link] - It begs the question--what does define gender? Its parents speak out about the public`s outcries.
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