Arizona Seeks Online Donations To Complete Border

Submitted by: Gerry1of1 6 years ago in
http://www.ocregister.com/news/fence-299679-arizona-border.html

Arizona to build taller fense along border with Mexico and they"re asking for your money. Worth the donation or not?
There are 71 comments:
Male 437
"I can tell you checked up because you said "caught violating the law" in your earlier post, and now it`s "lawful stop"."

I didn`t have to "check up" on anything. A lawful stop generally means you have done something to violate the law.

"and yes, that covers stopping grandma on her way to the ice cream store."

No, it doesn`t.

"which at least involves "reasonable suspicion" - though still not "caught violating the law"."

Reasonable suspicion... of having violated the law. It is the same thing.
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Male 144
Fense??? Really I-A-B... with all these Nazi`s around?
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Male 5,194
Still getting it wrong, but I`m glad to see you finally checked up on it a little bit. I can tell you checked up because you said "caught violating the law" in your earlier post, and now it`s "lawful stop".

The original version of the bill, which passed and was signed into law on April 23, 2010, used the phrase "lawful contact" - and yes, that covers stopping grandma on her way to the ice cream store.

The uproar from actual, real patriots in this country (as opposed to fascists in patriot drag) managed to get the wording changed to "Lawful Stop", which at least involves "reasonable suspicion" - though still not "caught violating the law".
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Male 437
How hard is it to prove that you are a citizen, if you really are a citizen? Who are you trying to protect when you say nobody should have to prove they are a citizen?
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Male 437
"SB 1070 allows the police to stop you and demand to "see your papers" with NO CRIME COMMITTED, and without even "reasonable suspicion". Clear violation of the 4th amendment."

You left one key part out - it has to be during a lawful stop.

Generally that means you were committing some sort of traffic violation. They cannot, contrary to popular belief, stop grandma on her way to the ice cream store and demand proof of citizenship.

"Clear violation of the 4th amendment.

(not that I would expect a guy like you to have even a vague familiarity with the Constitution of the United States)"

I am familiar with the Constitution. Under the 4th amendment, you can be detained if you are suspected of having committed a crime. Being in this country illegally is committing a crime. Therefore, if an officer suspects you of being here illegally, he should be able to detain you until you can prove you are a citizen.
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Male 5,194
"caught violating the law" - ? Obviously you never bothered to check into it, you`re just mindlessly parroting Glen Beck or one of your other conservitard icons. SB 1070 allows the police to stop you and demand to "see your papers" with NO CRIME COMMITTED, and without even "reasonable suspicion". Clear violation of the 4th amendment.

(not that I would expect a guy like you to have even a vague familiarity with the Constitution of the United States)
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Male 437
"Arizona took a crap on the US constitution anyway, screw `em."

Really? And how did they do that? By saying that you have to prove you are a citizen when you are caught violating the law?
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Male 5,194
Arizona? NO. Matter of fact, let`s just give that whole damn state to the Mexicans. Arizona took a crap on the US constitution anyway, screw `em.
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Male 1,116
It seems that Arizona`s gone full retard ever since I left.
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Male 382
@SvampeBob: Because yours was so drated up we had to leave.
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Male 39,935

The fence is not just about illegal people.
Lots of illegal drugs cross the border as well.
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Male 3,076
ah Americans, drating up their country since 1776
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Male 437
"If they are not letting Mexicans through their borders then who is going to build the fence?"

Uh, these guys?


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Male 382
If they are not letting Mexicans through their borders then who is going to build the fence?
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Male 516
*fence
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Female 52
@RobSwindol: you do realize that Jan Brewer vetoed the birther bill, right? we might have some extreme politicians in Arizona, but even our extremist governor isn`t a birther. you shouldn`t make hasty generalizations about an entire state based on a few of its politicians. also, you really expect people to completely relocate their families because they don`t like a bunch of new policies?
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Male 562
Land mines. That is all. Sorry, but you can come here legal ways. Many more would die if we made northern Mexico part of the U.S.
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Male 183
@Baalthazaq
i googled "aiding and abetting" and looked in many articles. i then quoted the relevant passages for you. if you want me to quote an entire page of text and let you find the relevant sentence i will gladly do that.

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Male 218
lolz you will never ever! stop mexicans from getting in the united states and thats a promise wether you like it or not
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Male 437
"They are too stupid to understand that a person isn`t technically and illegal imigrant until they get a job in this country."

Where do you get this? They are illegal immigrants as soon as they immigrate illegally. That means crossing the border, not getting a job.
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Male 2,402
Yes and to cut corners and save money. They will contract a company that hires illegals to do the job. Oh the irony.
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Male 15,510
Rolf, lost money!
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Male 591
If anyone knows where I can donate money to build an impenetrable fence around the entire state of Arizona, please tell me.
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Male 73
@rob What illegal immigration "technically" is, is irrelevant. The fact is its bad for the state and we want it fixed. 5)You seem to be a bit behind the times in AZ politics, Brewer vetoed that bill. Google it. 9) So we put up speed traps, sue us. The only people who fall for those are snowbirds, most actual residents of AZ rarely fall for those. 10) Right, here in Arizona we support drug trafficking. Its something we are all really proud of here /sarcasm. But really thats just another reason for tougher illegal immigration policy.
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Male 49
@NoArms5534
They`re asking for donations after having asked for tax dollars for decades.

Either way, the point was more that the fence is a useless, waste of money. Isn`t going to stop a family from climbing over to a better life, and it`s not going to stop drug trafficking.

That said, I think you know all too well the answer to your own question.
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Male 73
@ Gerry1of1 Yea, we can relate we have similar problems here. We try to fix it and pass legislation that discourages illegal immigration, but then people from other states (who have no idea what illegal immigration does to a state, f***ing easterners...)get pissed off at our immigration policy and label us as racists.....but were not mad or anything..

@rob Wow you really don`t like McCain do you? But thats ok, here in Arizona we really like him (and Brewer) and thats all that matters. You see, it our decision who we elect to be senators or governors, not yours. This is why McCain has been re-elected time and time again. Secondly, if you dont like our immigration policy, why dont you come on down here and Ill show you around Tucson or Nogales (Hint: its not pretty) and you`ll see why we want a fence. Ummm you`re third reason is absolutely asinine. Thats akin to saying "selling drugs isn`t illegal unless you get caught".
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Male 155
the only reason they want that fence drating done is so cars cant cross over.

If you live in az or near it you should know what im sayin
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Male 92
@Milo_Pretzel- So, what is your plan for stopping (or at least slowing down) the Human trafficking? The drug trafficking? The murder, rape, and kidnapping that is spilling across the border, fueled by drug cartels? I`m not saying the fence is a good way, but it`s a start.

BTW, if you get your paralyzing powers, how bout start with the coyotes that bring women and children half way, rape them, rob them, and leave them in the desert to die.
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Male 20
can we not come up with a better solution than fence or no fence?
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Male 196
Hey, fiveanthems, what`s it like to be an idiot? They`re asking for DONATIONS to complete the fence, not raising taxes. Reading comprehension: it`s important!
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Male 188
I wish they would spend the money on a method that actually keeps people out. Their are a ton of goverment agencies with their hands tied behind their backs right now who could really use the funding to do their jobs.
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Male 49
The fence isn`t going to keep anyone out. That is stupid. People can climb the fence in less than 20 seconds. It`s just going to be another waste of tax dollars, more a gesture than anything else.
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Male 10,855
[quote]so that we can keep illegal people/ drugs out of the country[/quote]

...and it will do niether and waste billions of taxpayer (or China`s) dollars.

If we even hope to curb either then we need to address the incentive to do so. Every time an employer hires an illegal alien we should fine the employer based on how much he paid the employee in question.
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Male 57
Also rob, you don`t have to be born IN the US but you have to be born on US soil, which McCain was. Plus the term "Immigrant" is a person who goes from one country to another, they don`t have to have a job in the country to be an illegal immigrant.
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Male 57
@Robswindol - You don`t like Arizona because it is a major drug trafficking hub but you also don`t like it because they passed a bill to try and cut that (which doesn`t at all promote racial profiling, do more research on it)?

@r66tramp - you`re lying, there i said it. Yes some walls are bad but some are good, like the one we need on the arizona border, so that we can keep illegal people/ drugs out of the country.
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Female 180
JEEZ, if I could paralyze everyone pro-fence, I would.
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Male 364
alibi19 - from one Arizonan to another, the politics in AZ are crazier than most would ever choose to believe. They make Louisiana look like textbook clean elections and New Orleans wards look like Monasteries.
This state, in the midst of horrific budget deficits, dropping home values, unemployment and embarrassing school outcomes managed to pass the birther bill, a law to permit weapons on school campuses AND repealed a law requiring a permit to carry concealed weapons.
I really can`t make this poo up...
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Male 2,528
"Why does everybody hate Arizona?"

1. John McCain

2. They encourage racial profiling

3. They are too stupid to understand that a person isn`t technically and illegal imigrant until they get a job in this country.

4. John McCain

5. Birther Bill: This one especially irritates me because you morons don`t realize that a person can actually be a natural born citizen without being born in the United States. Don`t believe me? Just ask John McCain. He was not born in the US and he`s a natural born citizen.

6. Jan Brewer

7. Many people in the state want to split to form a 51st state. JUST MOVE OUT OF THE STATE YOU MORONS!

8. John McCain.

9. Redflex

10. Major hub for trafficking of illicit drugs.

11. John McCain!
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Male 674
East/West Germany
Great Wall of China(Ming Dynasty vs Nomads)
Palestine/Israel`s Wall in the West Bank
South Africa/Mozambique
South Korea/North Korea

The list goes on and on and our history books tell us often how wrong these barriers were/are. It is a weird reality because we humans are building more walls today than ever thought possible. Look at all the gated communities? Look at Osama Bin Laden`s "compound" walls?

You see, walls are shameful. They hide things. Walls are built on insecurity, to force a sense of security which usually means somebody is making money or important friends somewhere else. Physical barriers, social barriers? All the same crap to me. One gigantic pile of dick heads have been running the show. One gigantic pile of dick heads will continue to run the show...now, if that`s a fact, tell me, am I lying?
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Male 39,935

@ alibi19 - not everyone hates on it. I`m a big fan!

I wish they`d do something here but California has already been lost. San Francisco and Los Angeles are safe-haven cities for illegals. Here in San Diego at the border it`s a hell of a mess. Steel your car, drive to mexico, cross the border next day. Steel another car, etc etc etc
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Male 73
Why does everybody hate Arizona? I live in Arizona and Im proud my state is taking measures do deal with an issue that has plagued us for years. I bet half of you don`t even live here and you`re just using this as an excuse to express you holier-than-thou opinions. Its not your state. You don`t have to deal with illegal immigration as much as we do. Let us Arizonans run OUR state.
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Female 320
Baalthazaq,


Make babies with me. I`ve seen too many of your posts to say otherwise.
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Male 49
xiquiripat has it right- we keep it illegal because it means we don`t have to pay them minimum wage or give them benefits. People who are saying the immigrants are taking advantage of us don`t seem to realize that they are keeping social security afloat, as well as our entire agricultural industry.

A fence isn`t going to stop a person from trying to get a better life, period.

The problem I have with immigration is that it means that the people who have the energy and spirit to do anything about their situation are just moving across the border rather than changing anything at home.
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Male 183
Short and sweet, Jim. Accessory after the fact is what you call someone who has added and abetted AFTER the actual crime has been committed. i.e. Past tense. e.g. The get-away driver, someone who knowingly houses a bank robber hiding from the police.
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Male 39,935
[quote]" it`s not illegal to provide food, water and shade to someone who has broken the law, especially people who have not committed violent offenses. They`re people who have crossed an imaginary line without filling out the proper paperwork. And tearing down those shelters IS a crime- it`s called vandalism." [/quote]

Not illegal to aid criminals? Tell that to Dr. Mudd. He was executed for assisting John Wilkes Boothe.

Vandalism? They construct them on public land without permission... It`s strash being hauled away, not vandalism.

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Male 4,546
Jimbro:
Lets actually make this simpler. What was your source? I`m guessing this saying as it`s the first link in google and your text follows certain patterns.

Why didn`t you include, oh I don`t know, the actual definition listed right above it.

Because you`ve data mined for an "appropriate" definition. Not a correct one.
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Male 362
yeah too many brown smelly people
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Male 114
"estimated cost to keep out people on foot could range from $400,000 to 15.1 million per mile". I think ill get a second opinion.
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Male 4,546
Jimbro:
So, after correcting your definition (which was wrong) to something closer to mine (which was correct), you`re expecting... what?

Well done? Congratulations?

However, I would also like to point out that what you`ve got there isn`t a "definition". You seem to have lifted the description of necessary acts of the prosecution from Wikipedia, skipping the actual definition, which does not include the extra points you wanted me to pay "special attention" to.

Well unfortunately for you, I did pay "special attention" to them, and that makes it look like you ignored the real definition to make a hack job of the wikipedia article, then rehashed it to defend your opinion.

Anything further?
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Male 10,855
Hey Arizona I got a donation for you right here!



@sbeelz

My thoughts exactly
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Male 183
@Baalthazaq

here is a definition of aiding and abetting:

"i a person, through his own act or omission, has helped as he would do if he wished for a criminal venture to succeed"

"if one willfully associate himself in some way with the crime"

"he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support"

"if you you do something to help the crime succeed.

pay special attention to those last two definitions.
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Male 4,242
mexicans are native americans
so they have a right to live here. Arizona was part of mexico befor the traier Texans took it.
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Male 2
@baalthazag - Actually if someone is crossing the boarder illegally and you are helping them cross the boarder illegally by providing them the means, whether it be shelter or transportation, to cross the boarder illegally, then you are aiding and abetting.
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Male 4,242
Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free

remember we let you in
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Male 10,440
[quote] I`ll donate for a tall concrete fence. [/quote]
Don`t forget the machine gun turrets.

It seems the further north you go, the better life is.
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Male 10,440
Public funds not allowed because such a fence is unconstitutional, and so it has to be funded through donations, however there are probably plenty of `patriots` dumb enough to give their money toward this fence, yet it`s only in Arizona? Couldn`t the oh-so-destructive immigrants and drug traffickers just go around?

This is a failure on multiple levels... barely worth mentioning as news, and certainly not work mentioning on IAB. ... I did get a small laugh out of it though.
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Male 4,546
Jimbro:
Aiding and abetting is effectively helping someone commit a crime, not helping someone who has committed a crime.

Otherwise hairdressers who have ever given someone a haircut after they`ve committed a crime (even after they`ve served their sentence), are guilty of aiding and abetting according to your definitions.

That makes them bad definitions.
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Male 183
@sbeelz

helping people who committed a crime is called "aiding and abetting" and yes, it is a crime.
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Male 2,868
@Gerry1of1- it`s not illegal to provide food, water and shade to someone who has broken the law, especially people who have not committed violent offenses. They`re people who have crossed an imaginary line without filling out the proper paperwork. And tearing down those shelters IS a crime- it`s called vandalism. But I guess it`s OK to fight crime with crime, right?
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Male 2,868
@RETARDEDBEAR- the main reason (not the only reason) it`s awesome to live in America is that you can make a decent living here compared to Mexico, and you can do so as an illegal immigrant because businesses are not held accountable for hiring illegal immigrants. Make it unprofitable for businesses to do so, they`ll stop doing it, only American citizens and people who came here legally will be able to find work, and the US will no longer be an awesome place to live for someone who immigrated here without going through the proper channels.
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Male 39,935

The hispanic comunity has set up way stations in the desert to make it easier for the illegals to sneak into the country. Mostly tarps for shade and water or energy bars.

Citizens tried to tear these down but got into trouble with the local governments. I always thought aiding a crime was wrong but I guess it depends of if you are a `person of color` or not.... see "racist" thread
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Male 2,868
@xiquiripat- pre-fcuking-cisely. I say pretty much the same thing every time I get into an argument about immigration, and it usually either ends the argument, or causes the person I`m arguing with to say something totally irrelevant.
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Male 11,739
Let them build it. Once they`re done with the Mexican border, they can extend it to the California, Nevada, Utah, and New Mexico borders. Just make the wall super tall and impossible to get through.
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Male 437
"the root cause of the problem is American business taking advantage of the cheap labor."

No, the root cause of the problem is that it sucks to live in Mexico, and America is awesome. I would jump that fence in a heartbeat if I found myself on the other side of it.
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Female 3,001
well, desperate times call for desperate measures i guess...
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Male 2,422
The fence is stupid and a product of America`s schizophrenic immigration policy. It won`t stop people from coming because the root cause of the problem is American business taking advantage of the cheap labor. If you`re serious about stopping or slowing it down, fine those businesses out the ass. Eventually, they`ll get the idea that cheap labor isn`t worth it and the immigrants will learn that there will no longer be any work at the end of their long and dangerous trek across the desert. The fence may well as be made of paper for all the good it does.
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Female 295
Why chain-link fencing? They should do concrete. Less footing. I`ll donate for a tall concrete fence.
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Male 437
Since the federal government would rather spend it`s money on welfare and sending illegal immigrants to college, it is now up to private donations to secure our border.
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Male 25,416
meh....
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Male 2,868
Hey Arizona:

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Male 39,935
Link: Arizona Seeks Online Donations To Complete Border [Rate Link] - Arizona to build taller fense along border with Mexico and they`re asking for your money. Worth the donation or not?
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