Prayer Vs. Doing Something About Problem [Pic]

Submitted by: eugenius 6 years ago in Funny

But what about all us lazy slobs?
There are 238 comments:
Male 5
so many people misinterpret this, but now that i think about, prayer didn`t fix my truck, didn`t fix the water heater, or the dryer. the way i see it is prayer is not a practical choice
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Female 219
Um 1. just because a person prays doesn`t mean they give up and stop trying to fix the solution.
2. Sometimes when there is nothing else you can do to fix a solution like o say when you have cancer..praying is the last thing someone can do and it gives them some hope..3. whose to say that praying doesn`t fix or helps it get fixed just because you "think" it was all you doesn`t mean that was all that happened there. It all comes down to what you believe or not believe.. but there ya go making a broad assumption on an opinion.. hmm :P
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Male 12,138
vv UserIDTaken9, christfag is not the same thing as Christian, at least when I use it. Westboro Baptist Church are christfags. Normal and rational Christians (i.e., not hate-filled bigots) are Christians.
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Male 52
Did you really just ban a guy for that and then call him a christfag? Well, as long as we`ve got rid of all the people who like to use slurs to pass judgment on entire groups...
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Male 12,138
vv Sorry Altaru, once they`re deleted they`re gone, there`s no backup. I banhammer`d him, but I didn`t delete his posts, someone else must have. Generally speaking I always leave posts after a ban (unless it`s porn pics or spam) - I think it keeps things clean and leaves an "audit trail" so other users can read for themselves why a particular user was banned.

He did say things such as "go away gay dude...
WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT FROM A BI-SEXUAL DUDE...
gay boy" as quoted below, I gave him a warning for hate speech/personal attack, and then he went on a 4-post rant on how bisexuality and homosexuality was a sick perversion/mental disorder, you`re no better than a pedophile, etc etc.

Unfortunately fattpill shows once again that the most evangelical, misty-eyed, love-filled christfags are usually the very same ones who are the most disgustingly hate-filled bigots. Can`t say I was surprised.
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Male 3,482
Actually, before I go... Is it possible for the mods to send me a copy of what Fatty wrote?

Davy, you`ve sent me e-mails before. Is there some great database where deleted posts can be retrieved so I could see them?

It`s bugging me, I just wanna see it in his own words...
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Male 3,482
Huh... I kind of forgot about this for a while...

Now that I come back, it seems Fatty disappeared.

Though not with his usual nonsensical retaliation based on Ad Hominem and petty insults.

From what I gather, he must have checked my profile and saw that I`m bi?

I openly admit to being a hedonist. I look out for myself and try to make me happy at all times. That has, in the past, meant non-exclusivity in my sexual orientation. (That said, I avoid harming others for my own gain, so it`s not like it hurts anyone.)

That said, sexual orientation has nothing to do with intelligence or the validity of my comparison, and any attempt to link the two shows a level of bigotry and outright ignorance that I rarely see outside the most backwoods regions of America...

I think I understand how he met god now...

He tripped out on so many drugs, he saw god and killed half his brain cells in one go, lol.

I`m probably gonna stay gone
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Male 4,290
Clearly I was wrong about us getting anywhere. Never mind.
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Male 3,076
yeah fattpill disappeared :D
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Male 4,290
[quote]go away gay dude
WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT FROM A BI-SEXUAL DUDE
gay boy[/quote]
... come on man, don`t make me pull back and put my mod hat on JUST when I thought we might be getting somewhere in this discussion.

That sort of stuff is way, way out of line, aside from being massively counterproductive to your arguments.
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Male 4,290
[quote]first off for a 23 year old man I have to say your intelligence is astounding. If you learned about the word of God you could change the world for God.[/quote]
Instead of arguing about that second sentence I think I`ll just take it as the compliment you intended and say thanks :)

[quote]Check out Ravi Zacharias he is Indian that is from Scotland.[/quote]
I`ve heard the name, but I don`t know much about him. From what I gather he`s Canadian, not Scottish though, isn`t he?

[quote]I know you see this as if, If someone knows the choice you are going to make then there is 0% chance of you making the other decision.[/quote]
Exactly. To me, the maths speaks for itself. If the outcome of a choice is known with certainty, which is the case with omniscience, then alternatives become impossible.
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Male 12,138
[quote]@altaru

THIS IS INCREDIBLY MORONICALLY WRONG AND A RIDICULOUS COMPARISON BUT WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT FROM A BI-SEXUAL DUDE. [/quote]
So you clicked on his profile and it said "Bisexual".
Look, bub. When I said it`s cool to post whatever sentiments you like, what I should have said is, I will personally ban you into the Adminisphere if you`re a homophobic bigot. We have a Zero-Tolerance policy on hate-speech. Or at least I do. Maybe you can Email fancylad after I permaban you, and make an appeal. Maybe he`ll reinstate your account. Probably not.

We can do without people like you fattpill. Forget the nicey-nicey post earlier, (I was genuinely trying to be nice, you then raped it). If you`re a homophobic a*shole then you have no place here.

Dancing on the fault-line, Fattpill. You`re welcome to stay if you drop the bullsh*t. And yes, that`s an official warning.
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Male 4,290
I am trying to decide whether to bake a cake, or brownies. God, who is omniscient, knows with 100% certainty before I choose that I am going to bake brownies.

Therefore the probability of my baking brownies, P(brownies) = 1, i.e. completely guaranteed. And the probability of my baking a cake, P(cake) = 0, i.e. completely impossible (since God knows for sure that I will choose brownies).

So if my probability of making a cake is 0, then I have no choice, even if I`m not aware of the probabilities.

I might think I have a choice, but I don`t.

[quote]I just don`t see how if I was to go forward 10 years and come back knowing who you were going to marry that it would actually affect your decision making process, especially if you had no knowledge.[/quote]
It wouldn`t affect it. That`s the point - it`s guaranteed. If you knew, with 100% certainty, I will marry Mary, I have 0% chance of marrying Elizabeth.

See my cake/brownie analogy.
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Male 4,290
[quote]Almighty, I think you should do a little more research about Andrew Carnegie if you don`t think that the Infinite intelligence came in to play in how he went about building his wealth.[/quote]
Andrew Carnegie made his fortune in the steel industry. If you can tell me how he implemented his faith into the smelting of steel, then I will concede that his methods were not secular.
You are confusing methods with motivation.

[quote]Also, I`m sorry but I really don`t want to dig through 12 pages of comments to find one analogy about cakes. So we`ll just have to agree to disagree.[/quote]
The cake analogy was in the post before the one you responded to. You literally had to read the very next post to find it.

However, to avoid any possibility you`ll miss it, I`ll post it again in my next post (which will be immediately above this).
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Male 602
Almighty, I think you should do a little more research about Andrew Carnegie if you don`t think that the Infinite intelligence came in to play in how he went about building his wealth. He hired a man to follow him and his peers for 20 yrs. Check it out. "Think and Grow Rich." "Law of Success" or "The Master-Key to riches." Napoleon Hill. You are confusing infinite intelligence and master minds with religion. To quote "It supports all religions and none." (wise words)

Also, I`m sorry but I really don`t want to dig through 12 pages of comments to find one analogy about cakes. So we`ll just have to agree to disagree. DISCLAIMER: THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL, NOT SOMETHING I CAN ACTUALLY DO!(for psycho, who apparently has trouble inferring)

I just don`t see how if I was to go forward 10 years and come back knowing who you were going to marry that it would actually affect your decision making process, especially if you had no knowledge.
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Male 602
@psycho

I`m sorry, you are right let me rephrase to satisfy the nit in your pick.

Time travel forward is proven possible, relative to the time that we experience here on Earth (see clocks GPS/car). Time travel backwards is still in theory.

Note the key word "If" in my question. IF someone, not when, not someone has, but if, which calls in to doubt if it can or can`t happen, but presumes that it is a possibility.

Also note "is working on it" about Mallett. Everything anyone says about future technologies is speculation. That`s why I said "imagine" what we can do in 3000 years. I doubt we are just going to stop... I mean for Pete`s sake we are talking about time travel, alien species thousands of years ahead of us. I didn`t realize that this needed to be qualified with a "maybe" with all of the other indications that I was talking about a "thought experiment."
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Female 126
Fattpill, where are you getting this from? Righthearted? Legal structure? The bible says nothing about god giving himself rules to follow. And so now god is waiting for all the "right" people to accept Jesus, then he`ll show himself? Why? And where on earth did you read THAT? On a billboard in Arkansas?
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Male 4,290
[quote]Even if they are crackpots, you going to question their methods?[/quote]
No, because their scientific methods for their achievements were secular methods. They did not factor religion into their calculations.

[quote]Science and "logic" don`t have all the answers either.[/quote]
Science doesn`t make that claim. In fact, the basis of science is the very opposite claim - we will NEVER know everything there is to know. That is why any theory can always be overturned by new evidence.


In response to the hypothetical time traveller question:
[quote]He is omniscient at this point. He may know every action you are going to take, and what the end result is going to be. Does that take away your free will, or change how you act?[/quote]
Yes, if he is truly omniscient it means I have no free will, since the probability of me taking any action other than the one he knows with 100% certainty I will take is 0. See my cake/brownie analogy.
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Male 4,290
[quote]He knows what choices you are going to make but even still its up to you to make them. I do not think that just because He is aware of them that he orchestrates them.[/quote]
He doesn`t necessarily have to do anything to orchestrate them. But 100% foreknowledge of an event means the possibility of anything else happening is 0%.

Another example. I am trying to decide whether to bake a cake, or brownies. God, who is omniscient, knows with 100% certainty before I choose that I am going to bake brownies.

Therefore the probability of my baking brownies, P(brownies) = 1, i.e. completely guaranteed. And the probability of my baking a cake, P(cake) = 0, i.e. completely impossible (since God knows for sure that I will choose brownies).

So if my probability of making a cake is 0, then I have no choice, even if I`m not aware of the probabilities.

I might think I have a choice, but I don`t.

Do you follow that logic?
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Male 4,290
[quote]There have been Tsunami`s that have not made the news. come on you know that`s not a good argument[/quote]
Not at all. Tsunamis are fairly rare, but they are not unique. Someone being cured of a disease, for which there is no known cure, is unique.
As it happens, one man in recorded history has been cured of HIV. He was the subject of a bone marrow transplant in Germany. He was cured by modern medical science. And it was HUGE news.

Regardless, that was merely an aside. Why is Satkela`s anecdote evidence for God, and mine is not evidence against?

[quote]so I think you are saying that God put the wiring in you therefore he made you to make the choices you do. I think that is what you are asking me. [/quote]
Ehhmm... almost. It`s not quite the meaning I had in mind, but it`s fairly close. This analogy sounds more like a programmer writing a program and then knowing how it will perform - which is also a fairly good one.
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Male 121
It`s still a hypothetical question. Mallett has not conducted an experiment to PROVE his claim that time travel is possible. Sure, the way a circulating beam of light creates gravity waves is interesting, but that`s as far as he`s gotten. He`s still looking for funding for his research.
As far as Michio Kaku goes, everything he`s ever said about future technologies is just speculation. Granted, I think he`s cool and all too, but there comes a point where we need to stop substituting published scientific theories with speculation of the future.
Maybe time travel WILL be possible in the distant future, but please don`t try to sell your thought experiment being preceded by anything more than "maybe."
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Male 215
I look at a post on prayer and there`s a flame war about time travel going on. Leave it to IAB, I suppose.
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Male 602
And my personal favorite scientist, Michio Kaku!

Care to answer what was a hypothetical question in the first place?
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Male 602
Well here`s a physicist from university of CT who is working on it.

Video

One example. There`s also the group that says they have moved a few lil`bits about 3 ft on a miniscule scale.

And then there`s the whole fact that because of the weird relationship between time and distance your GPS satellites all have a different speed clock than you have in your car.

And that`s now, give us 3000 years and see where we`re at. After all, the athiests know we will just keep evolving into more and more awesomeness!
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Male 121
@T-Marley

Care to provide a source to back up your claim that time travel is "scientifically proven to be possible"?
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Male 602
Since everyone is avoiding the sensible ground, I have a direct question for you Altaru. Time travel is scientifically proven to be possible, as we know it now. Imagine what a civilization that was a little as 3 or 4 thousand years ahead of us can do with it?

Now if someone goes to the future and then comes back. And while he`s there he downloads the latest wikipedia that is a couple terrabytes of text. He is omniscient at this point. He may know every action you are going to take, and what the end result is going to be. Does that take away your free will, or change how you act? Only if he tells you what you do.

I don`t really take sides on the whole religion thing because I can`t say I know the answers for sure...and I`m not saying god is an alien, but if god exists I can`t think of a better definition for something alien to us.
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Male 3,482
[quote]No righteous person will take pleasure from anothers pain[/quote]
Last I knew, no righteous ANYTHING would deliberately breed hamsters to throw into a fire pit, for ANY reason.

Yet that`s exactly what god does to people.

I`d say that intentional infliction of suffering is pretty sadistic.

If we`re supposed to be "for companionship," then why bother punishing us for all eternity if we do something wrong? Why not just make us not exist at all?

Except that he`s sadistic, and gets some form of enjoyment, be it a sense of vengeance or justice, out of watching those that don`t kneel down to him suffer.

A righteous being would forgive and forget.

So what would you call the being that punishes skepticism or ignorance with eternal suffering?
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Male 3,482
[quote]See I said you would say it was a lie[/quote]
How is it NOT a lie?

For starters, he NEVER HAD AIDS IN THE FIRST PLACE. He had HIV, which is the precursor to AIDS and can be kept in check.

By the massive daily dose of all kinds of drugs that he, and more than a few other people, take in order to suppress it, and keep it from becoming AIDS.

He hasn`t been "cured," if he were to go off his medication for a while the virus would kick back in full gear.

Fortunately, Magic Johnson has enough money to pay for all of it. That`s why he`s such a "miracle" case of living with HIV, because he can AFFORD to live with HIV.

Stupid people like you are easily swayed by emotional stories, and quick to attribute them to god. Trying looking up facts once in a while. It has nothing to do with god. It has to do with science, something you clearly slept through Captain Bible Thumper.
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Male 164
This of course, versus not praying and doing nothing. Honestly, is the Christian hating jag that made this doing anything other than trolling with his anti-prayer graph.
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Male 3,482
[quote]When he created you he knew when you were wired that you would choose the road you have.[/quote]
So then he creates us simply to condemn us to hell?

He already knows what choices we`re going to make, so why make us if he`s just going to condemn us to eternal suffering?

How does that not make him sadistic?

[quote]What about Magic Johnson who claims to have had AIDS nationally and then later came out and said he was HEALED.[/quote]
Magic Johnson takes a roostertail of drugs DAILY to keep his HIV (not AIDS) in check and prevent it from advancing into the AIDS stage. That`s a triumph of science keeping the virus in check, not some man in the sky scooping the virus up out of his bloodstream.

And if there are all these "rules" he put on himself, then how come he breaks those rules for some people and not others?
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Male 602
Science and "logic" don`t have all the answers either. "What was there before the singularity?" (conjecture only) "How big is the universe?" (since we can only see to the extent of our own horizon (13.7 billion light years in every direction i.e. the age of the universe) "What caused the big bang?", "If you were to travel to the end of our universe (if possible) what is on the other side? (more conjecture).

Furthermore, with billions of planets and billions of possibilities, there is a theory that anything that could happen has, will, or is. Such as the multiverse theory. Or even the theory that out of several billion chances, humans could exist on another planet by pure probability. Considering our planet has only been around 4 billion years or so, who is to say that something hasn`t evolved beyond anything we understand? A civilization that started a billion years before us for example.
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Male 602
It is strange that for a group who has no clue as to the answers to these questions, the possibility of some greater entity influencing us is a nonstarter.

We can bicker over taking a book literally, or figuratively, whether god is a booming voice or a culture that just surpasses our own and possibly influenced our development, but you can`t rule out the possibility of either of these things.So again, neither side has enough damnable evidence to prove the other wrong.

Me, I say we are all star people, since really we are all made of the compounds created and spread through the universe when stars exploded during a period of rapid formation in the early universe.

The two don`t have to be exclusive to each other. Some of our greatest minds believe(d) in an infinite intelligence that spanned all of creation, and credit it with their success. Carnegie and Ford are just two of the most prominent. Even if they are crackpots, you going to question their methods?
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Male 185
Uhhh... Magic Johnson never had AIDS. He was HIV+. AIDS is a condition induced by HIV infection. He is taking medication that keeps his viral count so low it is undetectable, but nevertheless, if he stopped taking his medication, it is most likely it will come back and turn into AIDS, as this is what happens to those who are denied their HIV meds. There is no cure for HIV, although one person was recently cured by a complete bone marrow transplant, this is not considered a viable treatment. That said, prayer actually HAS been proven to be as effective as a placebo, which is about 40% effective as actual treatment, and sometimes the only effective solution; but the person has to be aware of the prayer/placebo to have any chance of working at all.
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Male 37
true. very true.
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Male 840
Wow, fattpill, take a chill pill. You know almightybob1 is right. No one has ever been cured of AIDS. Not by prayer or otherwise.
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Male 4,290
[quote]My cousin Kawuam was dying from aids and had given up taking his medication and treatment. Through encouragement and family prayer he was healed from his disease.[/quote]

My grandpa`s second wife was dying of bowel cancer, and doctors told her she had weeks to live. Those of my family who are religious prayed for her recovery. She died anyway.

If your personal testimony is evidence for God, then mine is equally evidence against God.



Also, someone being cured of AIDS, under any circumstances, is something that would make the news. Did it? If so, can you provide a link?
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Male 4,290
Yeah, fattpill, if I went around banning people for disagreeing with me we`d have a LOT fewer members :P I don`t want you to bow to my authoritah, I want you to acknowledge my arguments when I take the time to make them. I`m going to make another one now, please do really try to think about it before you answer.

[quote]God gave us TRUE free will.[/quote]
[quote]When he created you he knew when you were wired that you would choose the road you have.[/quote]

Can you not see that these two things are mutually exclusive? If God knows what I am about to do, and God is always right, how can I possibly have a choice? I`m obviously going to do what he already knows I`m going to do. Therefore free will cannot exist.

As an analogy - if I know for sure what numbers are going to come up in the next lottery, can you possibly say the lottery is random or fair? Or is it fixed?
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Female 584
Why does it seem like most of the post on IAB glorify sin and bash religion?
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Female 584
@yanging:
My cousin Kawuam was dying from aids and had given up taking his medication and treatment. Through encouragement and family prayer he was healed from his disease.
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Male 269
For the sake of some logic, please don`t write crap like
"The point I am making is that God either:

A) Created the plan, in which case he is the source of all evil in the world,

B) is a creation, and only another cog in the wheel, making him a liar for claiming to be the most powerful existence, because he is following a plan that something else created before he existed, meaning that that something else is, in fact, more powerful."

Since when does something have to be powerful to create something more powerful? And maybe the thing that created god in your scenario doesn`t exist anymore?

The bible has many many shortcomings, but trying to argue with it and being so completely wrong is kind of sad :(

P.S: Great post davy
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Male 12,138
[quote]I now know that the red highlighted names mean you are moderators or actual owners of IAB and Lazyme484 is Right I do not want to get banned so I apologize to you if I have offended you in the past. I recognize your authority [/quote]
Fattpill, don`t sweat it dude. The day a user/commenter gets banned for disagreeing with/dissing a Mod is the day I resign from Moderating I-A-B.

Generally, people get banned for posting porn or spam. Apart from that, people are free to post whatever they want, personal opinions very much included. It`s a free internet out there.

Please do not ever feel that you have to apologise for disagreeing with mods/admins on this site. We`re immune to being offended, it`s kinda in the job description.

Banning users for something as trivial as having a different viewpoint is not what we`re about, at all. Never has been, never will.
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Male 3,482
Go ahead, ignore me.

You can gouge out your eyes and cut open your ear-drums, but it won`t make your delusions true. It just means that you`re not only screaming nonsense, but now you`re blind and deaf to reality as well.
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Male 3,482
[quote]Ohh you completely disregard EVERYTHING I said[/quote]
I might pay attention to more of what you say if you could form a coherent sentence. It tends to help in the understanding process if the thing one is trying to understand isn`t a jumbled stream of consciousness.

[quote]and now you try to twist 7 words I said to foolishly "catch" Me in something. How simple minded of you to ask a question and when someone answers it for you then you act like a monkey and try to twist one phrase they said. Dude I am done with you your a moron[/quote]
A) I wasn`t asking a question. After your jumbled rant I called you out on something you said. Now you`re backed into a corner and don`t have an answer.

B)You love to throw out those "foolish" and "simple-minded" type insults a lot, don`t you?

Too bad they don`t help your debating skills one bit.
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Male 3,482
@Fat

I`m calling you out on the fact that you said, and I quote

[quote]Yes he knew about all the things that were going to happen the Bible says God knew the end from the beginning so it was all laid out before him[/quote]
My post wasn`t pulling your quote out of context, no matter what kind of crap you wanna make it out to be.

The point I am making is that God either:

A) Created the plan, in which case he is the source of all evil in the world,

B) is a creation, and only another cog in the wheel, making him a liar for claiming to be the most powerful existence, because he is following a plan that something else created before he existed, meaning that that something else is, in fact, more powerful.

Your quote, in fact your entire post, seems to support option B. And you offer no explanation or answer except "uhh... Uh, no, that`s, that`s totally not what I meant!"
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Male 734
Yeah for atheism! Even if there is a God.... It`s better to die standing, than to live forever on your knees praying.
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Male 602
Pill, they aren`t gonna not post your videos because of personality it is content that counts. The moderators here are very laid back until you cross a certain threshold and then you get banned. I have only seen it happen once (though I`m sure it has happened more in my 6 years here), other than spammers.

On a side note you are fighting an uphill battle as IAB is overwhelmingly anti-religion and ultra liberal. (Funny, considering liberals tout tolerance for gays, abortions, and minorities, but apparently tolerance on religion or gun legislation is an exception.)

Murphy, are you new here? People bicker on these boards for hours every day, just post something about religion, government, or america being fat and you`ll see. Most do so while at work in a spare tab to keep the boredom at bay. The "owners" love it because more comments and more fighting = more page views and more moolah. (Not the mods, as they are vols.)
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Female 126
Fattpill - Wow, I return to see how this discussion has turned out only to find that you`ve been commenting ALL DAY in this thread? You`re 35 and you sat here arguing for the last 11 hours? Pathetic, man.
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Male 51
I KNEW IAB was atheist! Awesome.
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Male 25,417
lol maybe?
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Male 121
I hate to be nitpicky, but this post isn`t saying anything about religion or religious people. The only thing this post says is that praying is, by itself, accomplishing less than actually going out and helping people.
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Male 3,482
[quote]the Bible says God knew the end from the beginning so it was all laid out before him[/quote]
So you`re saying God isn`t the highest power?
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Male 602
Furthermore, action can easily be free. Volunteering at a habitat for humanity doesn`t cost you a dime unless you count travel, or your own lost wages. And if you do? Pick up a piece of trash on the sidewalk, and there...free.

And lastly, "geting up and doing something" doesn`t necessarily `solve` any problem. You gonna solve world hunger with a couple of bags of rice? It lets you put a drop in the bucket and feel like you`ve done something (akin to what this chart claims about prayer), but guess what? That rice will be gone next week, and the problem will remain.

Donating money to Tsunami relief via shelterinabox.com is easy, and quick. So to review, action can be: Quick, easy, free, and make you feel better, however neither prayer nor "action" is going to solve the problems. So let`s check all the boxes on both columns, except for the bottom one.
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Male 602
Right because all religious people do is pray and hope for the best. They don`t feed their communities, act as quasi counselors, donate money to causes all over the globe, set up missionaries in backwards places to teach people how to read...or anything that actually amounts to action, right?

And of course atheists live their lives in humble servitude to all of those less fortunate than them, and not waste their time with self-righteous condescenion towards people who believe differently from them.

Stupid post, stupid debate. Both groups "know" they are right, and neither group has any real evidence. Good luck getting that argument solved. Bad people are all around, and generalities are just that.

Whether you push one drug or the other, you are still a pusher.
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Male 3,482
[quote]First off Omnipotent only means he is everywhere at all times it has nothing to do with his ability to handle evil.[/quote]
Might wanna check your dictionary on that one, bud. "Omnipotent" means all-powerful, which means he should be able to take out evil. He just chooses not to.

For that matter, it also means he should have been able to foresee the fall of Lucifer, Adam and Eve dis-obeying him, etc.

It ALSO means that he was powerful enough to prevent them, but he just let them happen.

Hell, it means he probably laid out the plans for all of it to happen.

Which means that he`s the cause of all evil in this world.

Which means that he`s just a two-faced liar, a sadist, and just generally an *sshole.

At least Satan is honest in his actions.

God`s just a hypocrite.

And if he`s NOT "omnipotent," then he`s still a liar for claiming to be.
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Male 3,482
[quote]He gave his Son to die for your sins so ONLY allowing people with rightheartedness to be shown his salvation is not shallow. What is that not good enough for you he has to come down here himself and tell you face to face?[/quote]
No, that`s NOT good enough, because any suicidal moron can get himself killed for a cause.

Just because he`s insane and claims to be the son of god doesn`t mean it`s true. It means he`s suicidal AND insane.

[quote]here is the video IAB censored [/quote]
Descending from one man or one woman does not mean no evolution occurred. It means that natural selection occurred, in that the descendants of that one genetic mutant were able to survive better than the others.

In other words, it doesn`t prove OR disprove your religious crap. It`s just a boring as hell video making a lot of conjectures.

Doesn`t help that he doesn`t present those studies.

Overall though, it`s BORING, that`s why it wasn`t passed.
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Male 2,988
[quote] apathetic ignorant people are dumb [/quote]

i agree, i don`t like religous people either.
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Female 3,598
@icedragon.... cuz it`s so much FUN!! :-P
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Male 255
God I love IABs religious arguments, the irresistable force vs the immovable object. Go Fatpill...
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Male 4
Ice Dragon... IAB don`t lie friend-o. Don`t hate the player, hate the game (that you religous nuts created)
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Male 490
IAB, why do you make these posts to intentionally poke at people with religious beliefs? Why cant you grow up and just let people live their lives regardless if they have different beliefs than many of you? In all honesty, im sure these posts do more harm to your website than help, as it agitates and irritates many users and can turn off many to your site.

Course half the commenting users on this site are trolls as well and go after the easiest target possible, so I wouldnt be all too surprised if you somehow throw this back into my face and post this crap even more often.
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Female 227
How would you know? Have you actually tried it?
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Male 2,988
lol. prayer is useless. and those that pray are dumb for doing it.
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Female 298
@fattpill

because the religious run the world... seeing as you`re from the US as well, there`s no denying the amount of laws derived from religious belief. it`s not right. that`s why "we" butt in!
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Male 58
"No, it is saying the don`t die as miserably."

Actually, prayer or not, one who dies due to cancer will in fact die equally as miserably.
Prayer may help a person `feel` better about dying, but the malignant destructive tumor inside their body will continue to spread to a person`s brain, stomach, lungs, liver, etc. Until at some point they lie in hospice emaciated to the likes of a death camp survivor until their ability to process oxygen and nutrients gives out and they spend their last days confined to a bed or couch in adult diapers gasping unconsciously for breath, while loved ones say goodbye.

Any person claiming prayer makes it easier is still speaking out of ignorant dogmatic bliss, and obviously hasn`t witnessed it for themselves.
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Female 3,598
HAHAHAHA oh truth and reason how i love thee.
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Male 10,855
By the very following definition prayer, and the presence of bandages or even physicians themselves can be considered to have a "placebo effect".

"The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health not attributable to an actual treatment."

So is prayer an "actual treatment"? Are the mere presence of bandages (other than keeping wounds covered), or physicians an "actual treatment"?

Yet as some studies have shown they can actually improve the health of some individuals.
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Female 1,181
"That does not mean that prayers, made with legitimate faith, are not answered."

maybe so, DGbME. they`re probably not answered because there`s no magical man in the sky to grant them.
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Male 10,855
[quote]that is not placebo effect.[/quote]

Again your comment does not prove this assertion. As Musuko pointed out prayer in this sense is a placebo.
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Male 210
Meh post is Meh...Satkela makes sense. People who think prayer is a substitute for action are clearly confused, but nothing is saying both can`t be done

I`m Buddhist, BTW, so I`m not referring to ever asking the magic old guy in the sky myself. Prayer (or whatever you want to call it) can change the person praying, but of course it doesn`t feed the hungry or fix a destroyed building.

Of course, posting on blogs doesn`t get much done, either.
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Male 172
"Snukatuff: No, it is saying the don`t die as miserably. We ALL are going to die, someday, from SOMETHING. It is saying those with faith suffer less and enjoy the end MORE.
Skeptics are so annoying with their misconstruing of information to suit their skepticism."

Because they`re too weak to rely on their family and friends and doctors?

Oh yeah, I forgot; my faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is what keeps me going strong.
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Male 172
"Real theist know that Hard work gets things accomplished. For the things that are above our heads we simply pray and leave it to God. I`m a firm believer in the principle "Accept the things you cannot change, Change the things you can and know the difference between the two" and as for prayers not being able to fix the problem, that`s bull to me. I have plenty pf personal experience where prayer was the only thing that could fix a situation. "

Name one, in detail.
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Male 1,378
let them waste their time
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Male 451
Snukatuff: No, it is saying the don`t die as miserably. We ALL are going to die, someday, from SOMETHING. It is saying those with faith suffer less and enjoy the end MORE.
Skeptics are so annoying with their misconstruing of information to suit their skepticism.
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Male 451
it is so annoying that people misconstrue "appropriate" prayer. CLEARY JUST PRAYING ABOUT SOMETHING TO BE DONE THAT YOU CAN DO YOURSELF IS NOT GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
That does not mean that prayers, made with legitimate faith, are not answered.
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Female 2,289
this didn`t make me chuckle... or smile... or interest me much... you`re stating the obvious... Where`s the catch line?
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Male 58
"The Southern Medical Journal featured a study from Andrew Weaver and Kevin Flannerly describing how the spirituality of cancer patients determined quality of life during care. Those with faith had a better quality of life than those with out it."

Yet they still die horribly from cancer. But... god works in mysterious ways??....
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Female 1,589
Lord_Voldemort7 tweeted "I`ll be yelled at as per usual for this but #prayforJapan? No. If you want to help DO something. They want money, aid & food; not thoughts." Lots of people were not happy with him.
He went on to say more.
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Female 584
Real theist know that Hard work gets things accomplished. For the things that are above our heads we simply pray and leave it to God. I`m a firm believer in the principle "Accept the things you cannot change, Change the things you can and know the difference between the two" and as for prayers not being able to fix the problem, that`s bull to me. I have plenty pf personal experience where prayer was the only thing that could fix a situation.
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Male 3,076
ohhh you religious people, , your gay, other religon, porn, drugs, "freedom" hating ways really are pathetic sometimes.
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Female 3,001
ohhh IAB, your religion hating ways really are pathetic sometimes.
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Male 17,512
Cajun: Bandages, even when not medicated, restrict movement and isolate the area from the outside. Those factors alone do lead to some pain control, that is not placebo effect.

MattPrince: Dr. Daniel Benor (Complementary Medical Research 4:1, 1990) found 131 controlled studies involving prayer or spiritual healing. Of these, 77 showed statistically significant results.

The Southern Medical Journal featured a study from Andrew Weaver and Kevin Flannerly describing how the spirituality of cancer patients determined quality of life during care. Those with faith had a better quality of life than those with out it.
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Male 4,290
[quote]Concerning the video I submitted. My claim comes from not having full knowledge of the subject at hand. It seems to me that the satements are true so if that is the case then I am sure someone on here could Illuminate me. I recognize there are some VERY intelligent people on here and I wanted their imput [/quote]
I have, in the past, taken the time to explain to you the logic flaws or erroneous statements you have made on various religious or scientific topics. And your response has invariably been to ignore it or reply that I can`t understand the Bible until I believe in God.
So why would I bother trying to explain the nuances of genetics, or pointing out that nowhere does the guy mention the names of anyone involved in this 6,000 year claim?

To use a charming phrase you often employ when someone counters one of your arguments, or to avoid having to explain something you say - why should I cast MY pearls before swine?
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Male 4,290
[quote]Greatest trick he ever pulled was to make People believe he doesn`t exist.[/quote]
I love that film.
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Male 812
But what if you pray really, REALLY hard? What then?
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Male 10,440
[quote] No intelligence to back up why I have holes just a dumb statement without merit. Typical ignorant jerk. Although I am NOT an extremist. you would NOT be able to understand if I explained because there`s a lot of big words [/quote]

There is nothing I would gain by explaining, regardless of how thoroughly, why you are a moron. I am not a troll, after all, unlike you.

Looks like you got the attention of Davymid. I would suggest backing down for now. Your antics may be entertaining, but recognize there is a fine line between being hilariously stupid and downright offensive. You wouldn`t want to get yourself banned now would you?

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Male 12,138
"Concerning the video I submitted. My claim comes from not having full knowledge of the subject at hand. It seems to me that the satements are true so if that is the case then I am sure someone on here could Illuminate me. I recognize there are some VERY intelligent people on here and I wanted their imput"

Fair enough. But this isn`t Yahoo Answers. If you want to know more on a subject, I suggest you don`t submit a lame video to IAB in the hope that some people will inform you in the ensuing comments. All the while bitching about how you were "censored".

To answer your questions though, you might find this link helpful.
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Male 149
youll be given cushy jobs
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Female 298
I need to live in an atheist community so that I do not have to deal with such intolerance and bigotry... Religion is seriously one of the biggest factors for me in whether or not to leave the US... I know I`ll get some stupid comment about atheists being intolerant and yada yada... So here is my response ahead of time:

Atheists only feel the need to butt in on religious comversations because the religious folk feel the need to rule everyone elses lives - either by just telling them or through some of the wacky laws we have today. We only want equality and tolerance. No tolerance for the intolerant! And the religious are usually VERY intolerant. Not all, I know, but MOST. But this is why atheists are viewed (normally) as hostile. In no way do I endorse the extremists or just plain rude a$sh0les, as you can find those types anywhere... but we need to stop this rediculousness... Tolerance - practice it.
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Male 3,076
fattpill oh sorry i didn`t quite get that
[quote]It clearly says satan has dominion of this world[/quote]
So you are telling me that god creates a world where there is a ruler of the world already?

if so, sorry, but that not verry logical...
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Female 78
Fattpill - I`m 16 and can`t legally patent something where I live, though I have ideas. My dad has co-signed on a piece of workout equipment, and we got all the way to the prototype stage, except they demanded $16,000. We don`t have a spare $16,000. I`ve also worked together with my physics teacher and we created a new way to calculate some stuff. And no, I will not tell you what, because I can`t do anything about it until I`m 18. I think humans, even you, have enough potential to figure it out. I am not mentally capacitated to allow a higher being, because I`m a narcissist. I AM the higher being. I just told you that you have potential to make something of your life, that you are valuable, and you threw that out the window. Think the way you want, I`m tired of trying to give people high self-esteem.
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Male 3,076
fattpill
[quote]You ignorantly said[/quote]
no I consciously said I didn`t wasted my time.
but that doesn`t mean I would ignore what you have to say.

I read you comment on how god doesn`t make the world suffer, and my comeback was:
then why doesn`t god make the devil disapear?

now I`m telling you I`m not going to ignore your respons so tell me why, and make me belive that there is a possibility of a god.
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Male 12,138
Heck, let`s throw it out to the community. Your submission is posted below. It`s a Youtube video with 31 hits at time of posting. Your submitted description reads "Y chromosone in Men - Dumb rude atheist need not reply (only smart ones)". In case anyone doesn`t have time, it`s a video proclaiming that genetics proves young earth creationism, that mankind is descended from Adam and Eve and that all humanity is 6000 years old, being the only survivors of Noah`s flood.

LINK TO FATTPILL`S "CENSORED" SUBMISSION

Now, if we`ve read the community wrong and this is the kind of thing you find relieving of boredom, then please let us know and we`ll post it.

Until then fattpill, please go have a lie down.
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Male 12,138
fattpill: "then that is a better answer don`t come on here Lying saying the video was too long cause that was bull crap. Either way IAB censored me"

Oh, stop whining. IAB gets between 100-200 submissions per day, of which we post around 10 a day. There`s currently 533 submissions in the queue. Even our highest-rating submitters get about 10% of their submissions approved. If you don`t get a submission approved, it`s not censorship. It`s because it was lame.
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Male 1,610
Fatpill

I`m genuinely interested in this post you keep complaining about not getting posted. Care to link to it so we can decide if it was IAB worthy ourselves?
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Male 7,378
fatpill, Hopefully you are aware that when the Bible was written there was no such thing as schools. Any secrets to life they had were dreamt up and now can be scientifically disciphered. There was no great flood, Noah didn`t save 2 of every animal, there was however a regional flood. We also know through science that the earth is some 4.5 billion years old and the entire universe some 13.5 billion. So if those items in your book are wrong wouldn`t everything else in the Bible become suspect?
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak.

"It is not `placebo effect`, when it actually works."

The placebo effect refers to the improvement in health that patients often show when they are convinced that a certain treatment will help them, irrespective of the actual effects of the treatment.

It`s the being convinced that causes the effect.

All you can prove is that prayer can help. You cannot prove that it`s due to supernatural powers.

We CAN prove that ISN`T due to supernatural power; run trials including patients who are:

Prayed for and told about it.
Prayed for and not told about it.
Not prayed for.
And most importantly: not prayed for and told they are being prayed for.

Then compare the results. I hypothesis you will see improvement in those who are told they are being prayed for, regardless of whether they are actually being prayed for or not.
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Female 78
It makes me wonder, though, why religious people think god helps them so much. Why can`t they accept that what they have done with their life happened from their own hands? Any achievement was done by YOU, not god. Life is what you make of it. You have the chance to improve this world - this hedonistic, completely physical, awesome, beautiful, ever-changing, dangerous, thrilling world. You could invent something. Think great thoughts and write them down. Be the change you wish to see in this world. You can pass on a better world to your children, and your children`s children, in the good faith that they will one day do the same. And no, you won`t be there to see it. You`ll be dead. But, you`ll die with a smile on your lips, knowing you were good. Not "good" by some idiotic standard invented by superstitious morons 2000 years ago. Good by YOUR standards. Good in the sense that you made YOUR world better for the future. YOUR STEPS will echo in ETERNITY.
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Male 1,931
America, this is why you`re fat.
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Male 10,855
[quote]Placebo effect is telling someone they are getting medicine when they really aren`t and they start to feel better.[/quote]

Nope sorry Crakr he does not have terms confused. The placebo effect is not limited in the scope you`ve defined. The mere presence of gauze bandages on wounds have been shown to provide pain relief even though:
1)The bandages were not medicated
2)No extra information regarding said bandages was provided to the patient

We even conduct placebo studies on rats all the time. Do they understand English? Nope.

Even your own comment does not back up it`s premise. So prayer itself is a placebo.
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Male 2,220
@fatpill, I`ve suggested many things that have not made "the grade" here. Its just the way IAB rolls.
Deal with it.
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Male 684
If god is all powerful fatpill, then why is Satan in charge of the earth which is full of humans that god loves? Either god isn`t all powerful, or he doesn`t really love you. Also with the genetics, have you ever considered the neanderthals?

www.time.com/time/health/article /0,8599,1987568,00.html

Recent studies suggest that modern humans have the remnants of neanderthal DNA, also LOL at trying to use science to prove religion... derp to you good sir.

@Zaokii...beat me to it, but the second part about the dna is still relevant:)
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Male 3,076
fatpill
make some logic out of all the controversy in the bible then, maybe then I could start to think of the possibility that it`s may be true.

ignoring a legit question doesn`t make it true just so you know
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Male 2,220
Hello again Crakrjack - sorry I did look at your link but I couldn`t find any peer-reviewed results that concluded "Heart patients were 14 times more likely to die following surgery if they did not participate in a religion."

If you have a link to that then yes, please, let`s see it.

Otherwise, yes, I would expect the ability to remain calm, via meditation or prayer, to have a (small) beneficial effect in some circumstances.
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Male 7,378
@fatpill I watched your video. IT WAS BORING! Stop your whining and grow up.
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Female 126
Fattpill, where are you getting this from? Righthearted? Legal structure? The bible says nothing about god giving himself rules to follow. And so now god is waiting for all the "right" people to accept Jesus, then he`ll show himself? Why? And where on earth did you read THAT? On a billboard in Arkansas?
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Female 78
Fattpill - Such ad hominem! If you don`t know what that means, you might want to look that up, too. You do know how to use a search engine, correct?
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Male 3,076
fattpill that`s not an answer...


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Female 78
Fattpill -
S: (adj) almighty, all-powerful, omnipotent (having unlimited power)
Please learn English.
Stop making excuses and lying to yourself. Do you really believe that bullcrap? You do realize you have been brainwashed, correct?

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Male 17,512
MattPrince: You quoted 1 study out of the 1200+ studies done in the link I provided. Most of the studies do show improvement in peoples health. It is not `placebo effect`, when it actually works. Placebo effect is telling someone they are getting medicine when they really aren`t and they start to feel better., So you have things confused.

Acupuncture was similarly reviled by the medical community at one time, but it is now an accepted method for treating pain and other miladies.

Even if you`re an atheist, it`s hard to refute that there is a strong connection between mind and body and that meditation (no matter what form it takes) can be helpful.
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Male 3,076
Zaokii thank you, that`s exactly what I was searching for
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Male 3,745
"says your 13 so how do you even know how a 35 year old is supposed to act. another silly girl"

im 19 and i know that a 35 yaer old is supposed to act like he has sence and NOT troll kids for a living...

also the bible says something like "God helps he who helps himself"...or something along those lines...most christians just want god to do everything for them but if you read the bible when they pray they pray for god to give them the strength to do said task...

"God didn`t do this. Haven`t you read the Bible. It clearly says satan has dominion of this world."

Satan never existed before God created the earth (or at least he didnt have anything to rule over before its creation). my point is God allowed/allows him to do whatever he wants. but thats just my oppinion...gonna go take a walk or something now...
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Male 3,076
uhm fattpill god kille the whole planet except the dude Noa so I would prefer that all the humans died once again and this time god could try noto mess up and make a brain that doesnt acsept "evil".

no I`m didn`t waste my time on this ilogical book
so where did satan come from? isn`t it from a fallen angel? and if so why the Fck can`t god make him disappear?
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Male 7,378
@fatpill, You got us wrong. We don`t censor anything because we don`t create anything. Your submission was long and boring and did the opposite of what IAB is about. Sorry but you should know that by now.
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Female 78
Fattpill - "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

-Epicurus, 341 BC, Samos – 270 BC, Athens
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Female 126
Fattpill, you telling me to think through what I`m trying to say is pretty hillarious, seeing as you haven`t been able to make one post without stumbling over your own fingers.
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Male 3,076
ok stop telling us that there is a god...



sorry for the wide pic
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Male 10,855
@fattpill



"Quite whining like a girlie man!"
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Female 78
Musuko42 - He`s just a sexist, pitiful troll. Well, he just said he`s not going to talk to girls anymore, I think he just came out of the closet.
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Male 10,855
[quote]have you thought through what you are trying to say[/quote]

Tu quoque
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Male 2,850
Incidentally, is anyone else appalled by Fatpill calling Murphybed "little girl"?

I`m astonished. His profile states he`s under 39 years old, yet he`s talking like a 19th century slave-owner.
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Male 10,855


Problem fattpill?
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Male 2,850
@MattPrince

"there is also a Y Chromosome Adam, which is what he is referring to, but no, he really doesn`t have a scooby does he."

I`m a little out of date, then. Last I`d read on the subject was that the "Adam" was only hypothesised. That`s pretty cool news. :)

@fattpill

"I am not sure of the details as I do not know a whole lot about the subject."

If you don`t understand a subject, it makes you look a fool when you draw incorrect conclusions from it and base your arguments around it.
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Female 78
Fattpill, it says I am between 13 and 17. I am 16. Unfortunately, it seems you possess an incapability to read more than two sequential numbers at a time.
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Male 2,220
@fatpill - you are welcome.
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Female 78
Fattpill, it says I am between 13 and 17. I am 16. Unfortunately, it seems you possess an incapability to read more than two sequential numbers at a time.
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Female 126
Haha, I`m 25, dude. And you`re 35 and you`re referencing Boxxy? Really? That`s pretty sad.
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Female 78
None of you are going to sway the others. It`s best to stop the ad hominem, it just makes all of you look ignorant. Everyone has their own views on a personal god, there`s no need to push it on anyone else. Fattpill, your profile says you`re 35, please act like it.
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Female 126
Fattpill - TROWLL? Did you seriously just try to spell "troll" and hit a "w"? How did you manage that?! The letter W is nowhere NEAR the letters O or L. I`m pretty sure you just f-cking with me. Your godawful typing has to be on purpose.
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Male 2,220
@mutsuko - there is also a Y Chromosome Adam, which is what he is referring to, but no, he really doesn`t have a scooby does he.
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Male 2,850
@fattpill

"scientist have proved that the "Y" gene that is in Men can be traced back to ONLY one man"

You`re thinking of mitochondrial Eve, not Adam.

Yes, we are all descended from one woman. But no, that does not mean that there was only one woman alive at the time that mitochondrial Eve existed.

All it means is that only her descendants survived until the present day, and the descendants of her living peers did not.

It`s that kind of sloppy thinking that makes us mock you.
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Male 24
Exactly what i said...he`s some kind of clown.This is my last post don`t worry.
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Female 78
Religion makes no sense. That`s all that needs to be said.
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Female 126
Fattpill`s troll status is confirmed. No one can be this stupid, right?

And if he`s serious, then I`m pretty sure that`s proof enough that god does not exist.
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Male 24
hahahaha,there goes fattpill....calling people stupid...no i don`t know who you are and i don`t want to waste my time with people like you ;)
Nobody likes you here fattpill....turn you computer off hahahahahaha
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Male 24
hahahaha,there goes fattpill....calling people stupid...no i don`t know who you are and i don`t want to waste my time with people like you ;)
Nobody likes you here fattpill....turn you computer off hahahahahaha
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Male 2,220
Though thank you, the proof of God via your misunderstanding of Y Chromosome Adam was priceless. You know there is also a mytochondrial Eve right? How about the bit that our Y Chromo papa and Mitochondrial mommy weren`t about at the same time - has that bit passed you buy?
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Male 24
Naah not pretestant either...I`m not a fan of religions and definatly not a fan of the pope :)
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Female 126
Har har, tn11. You sure are a clever one.
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Male 1,587
LunaticB83-YEAH! DOWN WITH THE POPE! GO PROTESTANTS!

wait what?
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Male 15,510
Aaah, the discussion that nobody wins
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Male 24
I think many people here will agree to say fattpill is a clown.
Go and see your friend the pope and ask him what does he do with the billons they have stollen from the poor people over the past 1000yrs and more...definatly not helping them.Why would a god let people like that represent him?
This is just the oldest mafia ever.
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Male 2,220
Erm, fatpill, this business with the `go to hell`, I`ll try and break it to you gently.

In a word...

meh.
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Male 1,587
[quote] You`re missing the points of everyone who is trying to debate you. You blow off valid points, call people names...you`re such a cliche. And your thought process is so backwards and nonsensical that I have to imagine you have some sort of autism.[/quote]

does anyone else see this as ironic?
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Male 1,587
murphybed- pointing out that someone has a good point does not make me condescending. Saying, "You all are full of poo because you aren`t doing anything and I am better than you" is condescending. Hey, I have my flaws, and I know that. I wish I did more to improve my life but it is easier to do nothing on the internet. =/
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Female 126
Fattpill - The only person making themselves look dumb here is you, boy. You`re missing the points of everyone who is trying to debate you. You blow off valid points, call people names...you`re such a cliche. And your thought process is so backwards and nonsensical that I have to imagine you have some sort of autism.

Tell me this, though: are you a "born-again"? Because you are SO annoying and close-minded that there is really no other explanation. Born-agains are the absolute worst when it comes to actually be rational.
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Female 535
I think spirituality is a personal thing. though it can be shared it cannot be proven. Prayer has many benefits to those who do it with a balanced life and the above chart is bullschit for such people as prayer is organically woven into their successful lifestyle. I normally wouldn`t mention such things because I would rather talk about eating pussy, but I don`t think it should go without mention that spirituality has had its place in history as a part of our human success. Yes religion was always there to squash many advances in science and philosophy, but spirituality has often been a drive for many to make their discoveries. Both Da Vinci and Newton had spiritual ideas that drove them and occasionally Einstein as well. I do not think that being involved in prayer or other forms of spirituality has to equal laziness and close any more than being involved in science. Even some of the founding fathers being deists (not christian) had an effect on how they formed our government.
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Female 126
Hey Fattpill, why don`t you stop and take a deep breath and actually form a coherent thought in your head before committing it to the screen? You are literally making ZERO sense. I can`t make heads or tails of your latest post.
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Male 543
i want to say so much...but ill just agree with gerry1of1
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Female 126
Trypno and tn11 - And what exactly are y`all doing? We`re ALL on the internet right now instead of out solving problems. How`d y`all manage to get computers up onto those high horses you`re sitting on?
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Male 684
I would argue that the human brain is indeed a powerful and misunderstood tool.The placebo effect is very real and is based on a lie.I would argue that prayer has the exact same power as any other placebo.People don`t hate religion because of the help and caring it "inspires"(though caring about others without a system of punishment and rewards is far more noble in IMO)people hate religion because it tries to tell them what to do without presenting a reasonable argument as to the pros and cons of said action. I assume this is because when religion was created,it was a system of control to help people who couldn`t really think not do stupid things(like eat undercooked pork,or slaughter the cow that provides milk and help plow the feilds and gather water)These simple folk couldn`t reason their way out of a wet paper bag and needed something beyond reason and logic to believe in...the smart folk at the time created god...God may indeed exists, but its not what you imagine if it
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Male 1,587
Trypno- that is a really good point.
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Male 474
Ironically enough posted by someone who`d rather be on the internet than actually out fixing problems
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Male 1,587
Deep stuff going on here in IAB...

[quote]*sticks head in*[/quote]

Ahh.... bashing religion... ummm...

[quote]*slowly backs out*[/quote]
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Male 10,855
[quote]so IAB is biased and pointless.[/quote]

After they just approved videos by Lee Doren, and allows `conservatives` to comment on these threads.

B17ch please
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Male 1,610
Fatpill

Listen to jpfu220, he speaks the truth. Besides, according to you, we`re all going to burn in hell for eternity, which should be enough. Unless, of course, you don`t really believe that yourself. I mean, if you honestly did believe that, you wouldn`t feel this need to condemn everyone on here for making a few jokes, right?
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Male 39,614

Sometimes, prayers are immediately answered . . .


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Male 10,440
[quote] the only reason this post is on here is to stir up the Christians so the atheist can laugh at them because they don`t understand.[/quote]
LOL. Yep. Statement verified. :-P

[quote] God has proved he exsist to me with out any shadow of a doubt [/quote]
...you have more holes that a sponge...

[quote] the moderator did not see that as post worthy so IAB is biased and pointless. [/quote]
Then maybe you should leave. Although I recommend you don`t. It`s been a while since we had an extremist, let alone an entertaining one.

[quote] so go to hell [/quote]
*yawn*
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Female 126
@inversegrav - I`m sure you`ll be just fine. You have god on your side, after all. Maybe if you pray hard enough, everyone on IAB will renounce their evil heathen ways and become christian.

Pfffffft. God can blow me, that good-for-nothing non-nice individual.
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Male 65
fattpill, you arent helping the cause man. if you don`t like IAB then don`t come here... but don`t insult people. they insult christians, but i don`t insult them back. love wins.
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Male 10,440
@SapphireHart your "joke" makes no sense because the boats and the helicopter would have come regardless of him praying.

Just sayin`... seems like a fairly LARGE oversight.
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Male 128
@Fattpill: "God has proved he exsist to me with out any shadow of a doubt "

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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Male 101
@fattpill
So let me get this straight, if I don`t have the "right heart" he won`t prove his existence, thus condemn me for eternal damnation just because he`s too shallow to prove his existence to people who contest his existence?
Your comment is just another proof that you, as a religious person have no reasonable argument to prove you are right. "Non believers won`t ever see". It`s just running away from the hard truth - there is no god, never was, never will be. But since you can`t prove it, you`re just gonna say I won`t believe it? So weak.

If i repeated some arguments sorry, please prove me wrong. Oh so pretty please.:)
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Male 49
Telling an athiest to go to hell....priceless
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Male 2,344
THE GOOD LAWD O`MIGHTY WILL FIX E`RYTHING IF WE JUST WAIT!
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Male 5,094
inversegrav: You`re not born religious.
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Male 770
its amazing how it is forbidden to post anything making fun of people of paticular races but you can insult, offend, make fun of, condemn, and genearlly accuse of being anything but normal humans, those of us who have faith in God.
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Male 2,893
This post makes me want to burn down a puppy mill.
WITH ALL THE PUPPIES INSIDE.
DUHN DUHN DUUUUUUUUUHN.........
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Male 2,220
Nice joke SapphireHart.

It does suggest a dangerous model though. You don`t have a direct communication from God, so you have to second guess what he`s saying to you. That`s not very far removed from the Dice Man
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Female 4,039
Prayer is a nice gesture - like sending someone a card. IMO, it`s just an expression of caring, love, support - whatever. Nothing wrong with it. I don`t believe it can cure, but it`s a nice thing to do if you are into that sort of thing.
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Male 2,220
Thank`s for posting the link Crakrjack - especially as you must have realised the results were a far cry from your original figures.

Still.. I`m surprised at the final findings, that there wasn`t a minor benefit from prayer, a placebo effect if you will.
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Female 412

A man in a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" he called. "No," said the man "I have faith in the Lord; he will save me." So the man in the speedboat left. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose. A helicopter appeared and the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man. "No" said the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; he will save me." So the helicopter left. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, drowned.

When he reached heaven, the man marched over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
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Female 412
"Studies have shown that there is no such thing as God." What studies? Can you link them in? If you can`t then come back when you know how to create a vaild argument.

I think the following joke sums up how prayer does not mean sitting on one`s butt praying and "waiting for God":

It had been raining for days, and a flood came over the land. The waters rose so that one man was forced to climb on a roof.

A man in a rowboat appeared, "Get in!" he called. "No" said the man "I have faith in the Lord; he will save me." So the man in the boat left. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

(See next post)
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Male 255
Continued...

Prespecified secondary endpoints were 6-month major adverse cardiovascular events, 6 month death or readmission, and 6-month mortality.
Findings

371 patients were assigned prayer and 377 no prayer; 374 were assigned MIT therapy and 374 no MIT therapy. The factorial distribution was: standard care only, 192; prayer only, 182; MIT therapy only, 185; and both prayer and MIT therapy, 189. No significant difference was found for the primary composite endpoint in any treatment comparison. Mortality at 6 months was lower with MIT therapy than with no MIT therapy (hazard ratio 0·35 (95% CI 0·15–0·82, p=0·016).
Interpretation

Neither masked prayer nor MIT therapy significantly improved clinical outcome after elective catheterisation or percutaneous coronary intervention.
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Male 255
Here are the results of the MANTRA study described in CrakrJaks article below. It`s published in the Lancet:

Background

Data from a pilot study suggested that noetic therapies—healing practices that are not mediated by tangible elements—can reduce preprocedural distress and might affect outcomes in patients undergoing percutaneous coronary intervention. We undertook a multicentre, prospective trial of two such practices: intercessory prayer and music, imagery, and touch (MIT) therapy.
Methods

748 patients undergoing percutaneous coronary intervention or elective catheterisation in nine USA centres were assigned in a 2×2 factorial randomisation either off-site prayer by established congregations of various religions or no off-site prayer (double-blinded) and MIT therapy or none (unmasked). The primary endpoint was combined in-hospital major adverse cardiovascular events and 6-month readmission or death. Prespecified secondary endpoints wer
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Male 17,512
Sorry I didn`t post the link guys, Was sleepy and went to bed.

Can Prayer Heal ?

4 pages long, Research done at places like Harvard and Duke.
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Male 7,378
Save your breath. Prayer doesn`t help.
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Male 270
Studies have shown that there is no such thing as God.
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Male 306
One morning I prayed for god to make me a sandwich, I was hungry all morning. Another day I prayed again, same thing happened. Then on the third day I told god to fu.ck off because I`m hungry and that morning I wasn`t hungry all morning. So basically telling god to fu.ck off works better then praying.
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Male 369
Gee, who would`ve thought -this- would stir up a religious debate?!?
Prayer (like a positive outlook on life) has the ability to improve one`s health and well-being...

Cure cancer? Nope...
Cure AIDS? Erm, no...
Cure that mild headache brewing at the back of my head? Get real...

But feel free to pray for my soul =)
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Male 369
Gee, who would`ve thought -this- would stir up a religious debate?!?
Prayer (like a positive outlook on life) has the ability to improve one`s health and well-being...

Cure cancer? Nope...
Cure AIDS? Erm, no...
Cure that mild headache brewing at the back of my head? Get real...

But feel free to pray for my soul =)
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Male 2,850
@zombeastxx

"im not saying that that every bad thing that goes on in the world is God`s decision, because if it were up to God everything would be perfect and not filled with sorrow."

If not everything is in your god`s control, then he`s not all-powerful.

So why do you worship him as an all-powerful being, yet excuse any failings of his by saying he is not in control?
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"Studies have shown that:"

WHICH studies?

Because I can do this too:

Studies have shown that:

People who use the online moniker CrakrJak are 100% likely to be in their 40s, alone, unmarried, and bitter at women and homosexuals in the belief that they are responsible for his loneliness.

You know it`s true. Studies have shown.
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Male 2,850
@Baalthazaq

"Hell the cardio alone makes it worthwhile, and you can do it during the ads then go back to Will and Grace."

That`s the most wonderful "sell" for Muslim prayer that I`ve ever seen! :D
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Male 369
Gee, who would`ve thought -this- would stir up a religious debate?!?
Prayer (like a positive outlook on life) has the ability to improve one`s health and well-being...

Cure cancer? Nope...
Cure AIDS? Erm, no...
Cure that mild headache brewing at the back of my head? Get real...

But feel free to pray for my soul =)
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Male 2,850
@RPGillespie

"What`s wrong with doing both?"

Nothing at all, so long as you:

A: Actually do both.
B: Don`t claim the good that you do is because of the prayer without testing the claim (do something and pray, then another time do something without prayer, compare the results).
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Male 369
Gee, who would`ve thought -this- would stir up a religious debate?!?
Prayer (like a positive outlook on life) has the ability to improve one`s health and well-being...

Cure cancer? Nope...
Cure AIDS? Erm, no...
Cure that mild headache brewing at the back of my head? Get real...

But feel free to pray for my soul =)
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Male 2,688
@Hiromi

Its not. I checked. Its all biased results. You CAN find those numbers online, but if you look, its all studies done by groups that benefit from the numbers being in THEIR favor. If you look up the REAL stats, there`s no difference either way.
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Male 555
I used to be Christian, prayed a lot... Then I realized I was gay, and that no amount of prayer could fix that. Parents will probably pray when I tell them too. Pray the gay away (never works!)
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Female 1,148
@crakrjak

And where did you find this information? Doesn`t sound too credible to me.
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Male 541
That`s not how we think prayer works.

I needed a job recently. I prayed about it but I also made a CV, searched through ads and jobsites, started applying, doing some interviews, and in the end I got a nice, well paid job.

We don`t pray and expect stuff to just happen. We pray for help as we try to make it happen.
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Male 2,841
Reason #462 why religion is unnecessary.
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Male 116
xblackstarx, What he said was that God worked through his group to get the results. As Christians we do things like that.
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Male 2,688
Steven, How`s that Kool-aid?
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Male 116
CrakrJak, Well said! Great stats.
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Male 1
Although the logical thinking about how life goes is how this picture depicts...

God is not an answering service...

yes bad things happen... but good things also happen as well in this world.

im not saying that that every bad thing that goes on in the world is God`s decision, because if it were up to God everything would be perfect and not filled with sorrow...

because this is just mere earth..... not heaven

just saying
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Male 116
Murphybed, God cares for all of us. What you and a great many people posting don`t seem to understand is that there is another powerful entity out there that will slip in when we lose our faith; Satan! There are to many of us that think we can go on our merry little way in this life with no consequinces to our actions. So many posts on here show just how strong lucifer is with regard to our souls. Jesus said,"no one comes to the father but by me". He died so that we may live. Please reconsider your remarks on this.
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Female 126
Ha, yeah, prayer. Like god gives a crap about any of us. Why ask god to take away your mother`s cancer when it was god who either gave it to her or allowed her to develop it? People pray all the time and god either "answers their prayers" or doesn`t (hmm, 50/50? kinda like normal random chance?).

If god cared about us, he would cure dying children and make it so no baby is ever stillborn. People will say "god works in mysterious ways" - oh, so there`s a reason? Is it to teach us some kind of life lesson? Why does a woman`s innocent baby have to die for god to teach her some bullpoo lesson about how precious life is? God sacrifices children all in the name of his "divine plan" - and it should come as no surprise to us; god had his own son killed, and it seems he`d like us to be willing to give up our own kids too.

I hate god.
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Male 359
Troll post is trolly.
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Male 490
So moral support isnt real support?! I guess ill have to tell some of my suicidal friends that my moral help wasnt help at all. =D Wonder where they would be now if it didnt really help... 6 feet under?
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Male 2,688
@Frankii

This is 100% true. But there`s a difference between being morally supportive and actually doing something that helps. Prayer is a form of moral support and should never be used to claim that you`re actually helping.
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Male 2,688
@CrakrJak

Let`s see the specific people who participated in those studies... They sound like biased results to me. As if some of those people who didn`t fit the result the study was TRYING to go for were omitted to give them the numbers THEY wanted.
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Female 437
Look, in some situations people need to feel like they can do something to help when they can`t actually do anything. It`s not necessarily a bad thing
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Male 1
@Crakrjak

[Citation Needed] :)
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Male 12,138
Crakr, what Matt said. Not anecdotes, statistics please. Scientific peer-reviewed literature would be ideal, but I`ll take whatever you`ve got as starters.
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Male 2,220
I call bull on that cracker, links or it didn`t happen.
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Male 17,512
Studies have shown that:

Hospitalized people who never attended church have an average stay of three times longer than people who attended regularly.

Heart patients were 14 times more likely to die following surgery if they did not participate in a religion.

Elderly people who never or rarely attended church had a stroke rate double that of people who attended regularly.

In Israel, religious people had a 40% lower death rate from cardiovascular disease and cancer.

Prayer does help, it does not replace action but does seem to assist it.
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Male 4,546
1) There are 2 types of prayer.
Using Arab concepts: Duat and Salat.
Salat is the 5 times a day stuff. Basically amounting to worship.
Duat is the popularized prayer. Basically amounting to asking for stuff.

Asking the all knowing all seeing creator of the universe to change his "grand plan" simply because you ask him to should be seen as ridiculous no matter how religious you are.

2) Most religious people I talk to understand this. It`s not asking and expecting to receive.

3) Muslims pray more than your average person. A big deal is made of the 5 times a day even in western culture.

It takes about 17 minutes a day.

The Average American spends 70 minutes a day watching ads.

Hell the cardio alone makes it worthwhile, and you can do it during the ads then go back to Will and Grace.
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Male 2,688
Prayer is for people who need to feel like they did something even though they did nothing... It gives a false sense of accomplishment, and allows a person to take some small amount of credit for when something actually DOES happen... When someone is down and people pray for them, the slightest positive outcome suddenly becomes a result of the prayer, thus giving the people who prayed a false sense of accomplishment. This is why I am Atheist... Religion is a food for people who want to do nothing but still feel like they did something. The only time I`ve ever seen a religious group make a difference is when they dropped the praying and got up and actually ACTED. (*points @ tfizzle*) And even THEN, they put more substance on the prayer than the act...
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Male 12,138
Let me draw an analogy. Let`s say last week I won the lottery. My sister meanwhile was in deep financial trouble. I took a pinch of salt in my right hand and threw it over my left shoulder, then turned three times around on the spot on my left foot while mumbling "Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice". Oh, and I went to the bank the next day and paid off the mortgage on her house for her.

Here`s a hint. The salt-chucking and foot-spinning wasn`t the bit that was useful.
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Male 12,138
[quote]let`s see here. A group of us prayed for ways to help widows from our church. A widows house got foreclosed on and then we: 1. Paid for her first and last months rent. 2. Paid her back utility bills. 3. Now we are paying for 5 months of utilities + getting drapes for her uncovered windows. And we (our small group) prays for her weekly. [/quote]
I think you`re missing the point here. Your points 1, 2 and 3 clearly fall within the right-hand column. And they helped, much kudos to you and your group for doing that.
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Male 173
Ghaddafi`s soldiers claim that God is with them.
The protesters claim that God is with them.

Whoever wins: God was not with the other guys. Then what good is prayer?

Prayer is not a ticket to anything for free. And it`s quite selfish imo. When did God become an all-year Santa?
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Male 588
I wasent on my knees in the first place.
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Male 3,076
well at least if you pray you are in perfect position to make some of us happy ;-)
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Male 134
I like to think that every time one of these particular posts is made, the administrator is probably chuckling and saying "look.. look what I`m gonna make these retards do.." and then you all do it.
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Male 526
@bucksteeth, George Carlin? I can roll with that:

"See I don’t worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we’re part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron…whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn’t punish, it doesn’t reward, it doesn’t judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while." Can we stop arguing please? kthx
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Male 718
LUL U GUYZ ATHEISM SUR IS COO IMO ^_^
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Male 134
I pray to Joe Pesci, just as good.
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Male 42
@tfizzle You pretty much just admitted that prayer did nothing and your group had to do something to fix the problem, and that`s exactly what the picture said, lol.
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Male 17,512
Well said Jib. :-)
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Female 1,324
@Francakes

they may be putting aside time and in their minds doing something but :/ it`s always good to donate too. honestly, in my experience, prayer has never really helped anything... you can`t pay for supplies with prayer

but that`s my two cents. I think doing anything in general is good really, it shows that at least you`re aware of what is going on.
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Male 25
let`s see here. A group of us prayed for ways to help widows from our church. A widows house got foreclosed on and then we: 1. Paid for her first and last months rent. 2. Paid her back utility bills. 3. Now we are paying for 5 months of utilities + getting drapes for her uncovered windows. And we (our small group) prays for her weekly.

BTW - Most of my prayers have little to do with God fixing things but more to do with God fixing me in broken relationships, selfishness, and courage to face obstacles that are overwhelming. Even if prayer goes to "nowhere" or a God who can intervene it does CALL me to action.
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Male 40,375
*snort!* @minigeko

But yes, as several posters have pointed out, these are NOT mutually exclusive (except in the atheist mind) and there are TONS of fine charitable works done by Christians that you`ve never heard about.
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Male 149
ooo a bake sale...
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Male 314
yes because religious people solve their problems by praying not building houses, holding bake sales, doing community car washes and using those funds to help their cause
...Nope God will do it for us, honestly some atheists remind me of some hardcore relgionuts
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Male 740
But so oooooolllllddddd
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Female 157
I think prayer is powerful. This chart is assuming that prayer causes no action. In the very least, people who pray are setting aside time in their day to think about other people. Most people give a few bucks cause it`s easy and forget about it. People who take time to pray each day kick butt.
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Male 985
No joke, my school today prayed for nuclear reactors in japan. Anglican school, fml.
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Male 249
A prayer sounds like a good infomercial right now haha. Oxy-clean or prayer, I wonder which I should order...
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Male 1,510
Good thing I do both.
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Male 1,021
Not that I care much, but I do see Christian groups helping in their community and around the world quite a bit. I think they say "God helps those who help themselves" so prayer is part of the getting off your ass thing.

I don`t have a problem with other people praying, and I don`t know why some other atheists are such dratholes about it.
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Male 490
Eh, I`m Christian and I agree.

Honestly, both Jesus and Paul said to "pray, but that doesn`t absolve you of action."
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Male 217
What`s wrong with doing both?
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Male 2,049
Nailed it.
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Male 437
I think the idea is that you pray prior to doing something about it; it isn`t a choice between one or the other. Of course, if you have a complete lack of spirituality, you won`t understand.
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Male 490
Ive seen prayer do things before. *Shrugs* Not that anyone would believe me.
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Male 2,576
Good Math doesn`t lie.
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Female 77
lol. so true.
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Male 1,620
Link: Prayer Vs. Doing Something About Problem [Pic] [Rate Link] - But what about all us lazy slobs?
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