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Date: 03/24/11 09:45 PM

238 Responses to Prayer Vs. Doing Something About Problem [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of eugenius
    eugenius Male 30-39
    1620 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 4:18 pm
    Link: Prayer Vs. Doing Something About Problem - But what about all us lazy slobs?
  2. Profile photo of misiz_sjmxo
    misiz_sjmxo Female 18-29
    77 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 9:49 pm
    lol. so true.
  3. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2578 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 9:49 pm
    Good Math doesn`t lie.
  4. Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 9:50 pm
    Ive seen prayer do things before. *Shrugs* Not that anyone would believe me.
  5. Profile photo of RETARDEDBEAR
    RETARDEDBEAR Male 18-29
    437 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 9:52 pm
    I think the idea is that you pray prior to doing something about it; it isn`t a choice between one or the other. Of course, if you have a complete lack of spirituality, you won`t understand.
  6. Profile photo of Concetra
    Concetra Male 18-29
    2050 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 9:57 pm
    Nailed it.
  7. Profile photo of RPGillespie
    RPGillespie Male 13-17
    217 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:01 pm
    What`s wrong with doing both?
  8. Profile photo of hwkiller
    hwkiller Male 18-29
    490 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:02 pm
    Eh, I`m Christian and I agree.

    Honestly, both Jesus and Paul said to "pray, but that doesn`t absolve you of action."
  9. Profile photo of fivezones
    fivezones Male 40-49
    1021 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:02 pm
    Not that I care much, but I do see Christian groups helping in their community and around the world quite a bit. I think they say "God helps those who help themselves" so prayer is part of the getting off your ass thing.

    I don`t have a problem with other people praying, and I don`t know why some other atheists are such dratholes about it.
  10. Profile photo of DingDingDong
    DingDingDong Male 30-39
    1511 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:10 pm
    Good thing I do both.
  11. Profile photo of Johnny_Blaze
    Johnny_Blaze Male 18-29
    249 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:22 pm
    A prayer sounds like a good infomercial right now haha. Oxy-clean or prayer, I wonder which I should order...
  12. Profile photo of Tisjokar
    Tisjokar Male 18-29
    985 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:27 pm
    No joke, my school today prayed for nuclear reactors in japan. Anglican school, fml.
  13. Profile photo of Francakes
    Francakes Female 18-29
    157 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:33 pm
    I think prayer is powerful. This chart is assuming that prayer causes no action. In the very least, people who pray are setting aside time in their day to think about other people. Most people give a few bucks cause it`s easy and forget about it. People who take time to pray each day kick butt.
  14. Profile photo of urbanlegend
    urbanlegend Male 18-29
    741 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:34 pm
    But so oooooolllllddddd
  15. Profile photo of jib
    jib Male 18-29
    314 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:37 pm
    yes because religious people solve their problems by praying not building houses, holding bake sales, doing community car washes and using those funds to help their cause
    ...Nope God will do it for us, honestly some atheists remind me of some hardcore relgionuts
  16. Profile photo of minigeko
    minigeko Male 18-29
    149 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 10:59 pm
    ooo a bake sale...
  17. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    33117 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:04 pm
    *snort!* @minigeko

    But yes, as several posters have pointed out, these are NOT mutually exclusive (except in the atheist mind) and there are TONS of fine charitable works done by Christians that you`ve never heard about.
  18. Profile photo of tfizzle
    tfizzle Male 18-29
    25 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:06 pm
    let`s see here. A group of us prayed for ways to help widows from our church. A widows house got foreclosed on and then we: 1. Paid for her first and last months rent. 2. Paid her back utility bills. 3. Now we are paying for 5 months of utilities + getting drapes for her uncovered windows. And we (our small group) prays for her weekly.

    BTW - Most of my prayers have little to do with God fixing things but more to do with God fixing me in broken relationships, selfishness, and courage to face obstacles that are overwhelming. Even if prayer goes to "nowhere" or a God who can intervene it does CALL me to action.
  19. Profile photo of gothmo
    gothmo Female 18-29
    1324 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:10 pm
    @Francakes

    they may be putting aside time and in their minds doing something but :/ it`s always good to donate too. honestly, in my experience, prayer has never really helped anything... you can`t pay for supplies with prayer

    but that`s my two cents. I think doing anything in general is good really, it shows that at least you`re aware of what is going on.
  20. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:15 pm
    Well said Jib. :-)
  21. Profile photo of xblackstarx
    xblackstarx Male 13-17
    42 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:32 pm
    @tfizzle You pretty much just admitted that prayer did nothing and your group had to do something to fix the problem, and that`s exactly what the picture said, lol.
  22. Profile photo of bucksteeth
    bucksteeth Male 18-29
    134 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:39 pm
    I pray to Joe Pesci, just as good.
  23. Profile photo of Fleaman1797
    Fleaman1797 Male 18-29
    718 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:43 pm
    LUL U GUYZ ATHEISM SUR IS COO IMO ^_^
  24. Profile photo of krisley
    krisley Male 18-29
    525 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:49 pm
    @bucksteeth, George Carlin? I can roll with that:

    "See I don’t worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we’re part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron…whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn’t punish, it doesn’t reward, it doesn’t judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while." Can we stop arguing please? kthx
  25. Profile photo of bucksteeth
    bucksteeth Male 18-29
    134 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:51 pm
    I like to think that every time one of these particular posts is made, the administrator is probably chuckling and saying "look.. look what I`m gonna make these retards do.." and then you all do it.
  26. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:57 pm
    well at least if you pray you are in perfect position to make some of us happy ;-)
  27. Profile photo of mr_fribbles
    mr_fribbles Male 13-17
    588 posts
    March 24, 2011 at 11:59 pm
    I wasent on my knees in the first place.
  28. Profile photo of Izaq
    Izaq Male 30-39
    173 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:05 am
    Ghaddafi`s soldiers claim that God is with them.
    The protesters claim that God is with them.

    Whoever wins: God was not with the other guys. Then what good is prayer?

    Prayer is not a ticket to anything for free. And it`s quite selfish imo. When did God become an all-year Santa?
  29. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:10 am
    let`s see here. A group of us prayed for ways to help widows from our church. A widows house got foreclosed on and then we: 1. Paid for her first and last months rent. 2. Paid her back utility bills. 3. Now we are paying for 5 months of utilities + getting drapes for her uncovered windows. And we (our small group) prays for her weekly.
    I think you`re missing the point here. Your points 1, 2 and 3 clearly fall within the right-hand column. And they helped, much kudos to you and your group for doing that.
  30. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:13 am
    Let me draw an analogy. Let`s say last week I won the lottery. My sister meanwhile was in deep financial trouble. I took a pinch of salt in my right hand and threw it over my left shoulder, then turned three times around on the spot on my left foot while mumbling "Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice". Oh, and I went to the bank the next day and paid off the mortgage on her house for her.

    Here`s a hint. The salt-chucking and foot-spinning wasn`t the bit that was useful.
  31. Profile photo of taylor_stone
    taylor_stone Male 30-39
    2688 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:40 am
    Prayer is for people who need to feel like they did something even though they did nothing... It gives a false sense of accomplishment, and allows a person to take some small amount of credit for when something actually DOES happen... When someone is down and people pray for them, the slightest positive outcome suddenly becomes a result of the prayer, thus giving the people who prayed a false sense of accomplishment. This is why I am Atheist... Religion is a food for people who want to do nothing but still feel like they did something. The only time I`ve ever seen a religious group make a difference is when they dropped the praying and got up and actually ACTED. (*points @ tfizzle*) And even THEN, they put more substance on the prayer than the act...
  32. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:43 am
    1) There are 2 types of prayer.
    Using Arab concepts: Duat and Salat.
    Salat is the 5 times a day stuff. Basically amounting to worship.
    Duat is the popularized prayer. Basically amounting to asking for stuff.

    Asking the all knowing all seeing creator of the universe to change his "grand plan" simply because you ask him to should be seen as ridiculous no matter how religious you are.

    2) Most religious people I talk to understand this. It`s not asking and expecting to receive.

    3) Muslims pray more than your average person. A big deal is made of the 5 times a day even in western culture.

    It takes about 17 minutes a day.

    The Average American spends 70 minutes a day watching ads.

    Hell the cardio alone makes it worthwhile, and you can do it during the ads then go back to Will and Grace.
  33. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:50 am
    Studies have shown that:

    Hospitalized people who never attended church have an average stay of three times longer than people who attended regularly.

    Heart patients were 14 times more likely to die following surgery if they did not participate in a religion.

    Elderly people who never or rarely attended church had a stroke rate double that of people who attended regularly.

    In Israel, religious people had a 40% lower death rate from cardiovascular disease and cancer.

    Prayer does help, it does not replace action but does seem to assist it.
  34. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:53 am
    I call bull on that cracker, links or it didn`t happen.
  35. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:55 am
    Crakr, what Matt said. Not anecdotes, statistics please. Scientific peer-reviewed literature would be ideal, but I`ll take whatever you`ve got as starters.
  36. Profile photo of KHAAAAAAAANN
    KHAAAAAAAANN Male 18-29
    1 post
    March 25, 2011 at 1:06 am
    @Crakrjak

    :)
  37. Profile photo of Frankii
    Frankii Female 18-29
    437 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:07 am
    Look, in some situations people need to feel like they can do something to help when they can`t actually do anything. It`s not necessarily a bad thing
  38. Profile photo of taylor_stone
    taylor_stone Male 30-39
    2688 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:16 am
    @CrakrJak

    Let`s see the specific people who participated in those studies... They sound like biased results to me. As if some of those people who didn`t fit the result the study was TRYING to go for were omitted to give them the numbers THEY wanted.
  39. Profile photo of taylor_stone
    taylor_stone Male 30-39
    2688 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:28 am
    @Frankii

    This is 100% true. But there`s a difference between being morally supportive and actually doing something that helps. Prayer is a form of moral support and should never be used to claim that you`re actually helping.
  40. Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:32 am
    So moral support isnt real support?! I guess ill have to tell some of my suicidal friends that my moral help wasnt help at all. =D Wonder where they would be now if it didnt really help... 6 feet under?
  41. Profile photo of Schr0dinger
    Schr0dinger Male 50-59
    359 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:38 am
    Troll post is trolly.
  42. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 2:17 am
    Ha, yeah, prayer. Like god gives a crap about any of us. Why ask god to take away your mother`s cancer when it was god who either gave it to her or allowed her to develop it? People pray all the time and god either "answers their prayers" or doesn`t (hmm, 50/50? kinda like normal random chance?).

    If god cared about us, he would cure dying children and make it so no baby is ever stillborn. People will say "god works in mysterious ways" - oh, so there`s a reason? Is it to teach us some kind of life lesson? Why does a woman`s innocent baby have to die for god to teach her some bullpoo lesson about how precious life is? God sacrifices children all in the name of his "divine plan" - and it should come as no surprise to us; god had his own son killed, and it seems he`d like us to be willing to give up our own kids too.

    I hate god.
  43. Profile photo of steven8124
    steven8124 Male 50-59
    116 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 2:53 am
    Murphybed, God cares for all of us. What you and a great many people posting don`t seem to understand is that there is another powerful entity out there that will slip in when we lose our faith; Satan! There are to many of us that think we can go on our merry little way in this life with no consequinces to our actions. So many posts on here show just how strong lucifer is with regard to our souls. Jesus said,"no one comes to the father but by me". He died so that we may live. Please reconsider your remarks on this.
  44. Profile photo of zombeastxx
    zombeastxx Male 18-29
    1 post
    March 25, 2011 at 2:59 am
    Although the logical thinking about how life goes is how this picture depicts...

    God is not an answering service...

    yes bad things happen... but good things also happen as well in this world.

    im not saying that that every bad thing that goes on in the world is God`s decision, because if it were up to God everything would be perfect and not filled with sorrow...

    because this is just mere earth..... not heaven

    just saying
  45. Profile photo of steven8124
    steven8124 Male 50-59
    116 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:02 am
    CrakrJak, Well said! Great stats.
  46. Profile photo of taylor_stone
    taylor_stone Male 30-39
    2688 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:04 am
    Steven, How`s that Kool-aid?
  47. Profile photo of steven8124
    steven8124 Male 50-59
    116 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:14 am
    xblackstarx, What he said was that God worked through his group to get the results. As Christians we do things like that.
  48. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:32 am
    Reason #462 why religion is unnecessary.
  49. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:34 am
    That`s not how we think prayer works.

    I needed a job recently. I prayed about it but I also made a CV, searched through ads and jobsites, started applying, doing some interviews, and in the end I got a nice, well paid job.

    We don`t pray and expect stuff to just happen. We pray for help as we try to make it happen.
  50. Profile photo of Hiromi
    Hiromi Female 18-29
    1149 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:43 am
    @crakrjak

    And where did you find this information? Doesn`t sound too credible to me.
  51. Profile photo of unbwogable
    unbwogable Male 18-29
    555 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:12 am
    I used to be Christian, prayed a lot... Then I realized I was gay, and that no amount of prayer could fix that. Parents will probably pray when I tell them too. Pray the gay away (never works!)
  52. Profile photo of taylor_stone
    taylor_stone Male 30-39
    2688 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:14 am
    @Hiromi

    Its not. I checked. Its all biased results. You CAN find those numbers online, but if you look, its all studies done by groups that benefit from the numbers being in THEIR favor. If you look up the REAL stats, there`s no difference either way.
  53. Profile photo of sourkraut
    sourkraut Male 40-49
    359 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:18 am
    Gee, who would`ve thought -this- would stir up a religious debate?!?
    Prayer (like a positive outlook on life) has the ability to improve one`s health and well-being...

    Cure cancer? Nope...
    Cure AIDS? Erm, no...
    Cure that mild headache brewing at the back of my head? Get real...

    But feel free to pray for my soul =)
  54. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:20 am
    @RPGillespie

    "What`s wrong with doing both?"

    Nothing at all, so long as you:

    A: Actually do both.
    B: Don`t claim the good that you do is because of the prayer without testing the claim (do something and pray, then another time do something without prayer, compare the results).
  55. Profile photo of sourkraut
    sourkraut Male 40-49
    359 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:23 am
    Gee, who would`ve thought -this- would stir up a religious debate?!?
    Prayer (like a positive outlook on life) has the ability to improve one`s health and well-being...

    Cure cancer? Nope...
    Cure AIDS? Erm, no...
    Cure that mild headache brewing at the back of my head? Get real...

    But feel free to pray for my soul =)
  56. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:25 am
    @Baalthazaq

    "Hell the cardio alone makes it worthwhile, and you can do it during the ads then go back to Will and Grace."

    That`s the most wonderful "sell" for Muslim prayer that I`ve ever seen! :D
  57. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:28 am
    @CrakrJak

    "Studies have shown that:"

    WHICH studies?

    Because I can do this too:

    Studies have shown that:

    People who use the online moniker CrakrJak are 100% likely to be in their 40s, alone, unmarried, and bitter at women and homosexuals in the belief that they are responsible for his loneliness.

    You know it`s true. Studies have shown.
  58. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:34 am
    @zombeastxx

    "im not saying that that every bad thing that goes on in the world is God`s decision, because if it were up to God everything would be perfect and not filled with sorrow."

    If not everything is in your god`s control, then he`s not all-powerful.

    So why do you worship him as an all-powerful being, yet excuse any failings of his by saying he is not in control?
  59. Profile photo of sourkraut
    sourkraut Male 40-49
    359 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:35 am
    Gee, who would`ve thought -this- would stir up a religious debate?!?
    Prayer (like a positive outlook on life) has the ability to improve one`s health and well-being...

    Cure cancer? Nope...
    Cure AIDS? Erm, no...
    Cure that mild headache brewing at the back of my head? Get real...

    But feel free to pray for my soul =)
  60. Profile photo of sourkraut
    sourkraut Male 40-49
    359 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:42 am
    Gee, who would`ve thought -this- would stir up a religious debate?!?
    Prayer (like a positive outlook on life) has the ability to improve one`s health and well-being...

    Cure cancer? Nope...
    Cure AIDS? Erm, no...
    Cure that mild headache brewing at the back of my head? Get real...

    But feel free to pray for my soul =)
  61. Profile photo of martinikene
    martinikene Male 18-29
    306 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:43 am
    One morning I prayed for god to make me a sandwich, I was hungry all morning. Another day I prayed again, same thing happened. Then on the third day I told god to fu.ck off because I`m hungry and that morning I wasn`t hungry all morning. So basically telling god to fu.ck off works better then praying.
  62. Profile photo of Turf_Moor
    Turf_Moor Male 18-29
    270 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 5:01 am
    Studies have shown that there is no such thing as God.
  63. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 5:41 am
    Save your breath. Prayer doesn`t help.
  64. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 5:52 am
    Sorry I didn`t post the link guys, Was sleepy and went to bed.

    Can Prayer Heal ?

    4 pages long, Research done at places like Harvard and Duke.
  65. Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 6:04 am
    Here are the results of the MANTRA study described in CrakrJaks article below. It`s published in the Lancet:

    Background

    Data from a pilot study suggested that noetic therapies—healing practices that are not mediated by tangible elements—can reduce preprocedural distress and might affect outcomes in patients undergoing percutaneous coronary intervention. We undertook a multicentre, prospective trial of two such practices: intercessory prayer and music, imagery, and touch (MIT) therapy.
    Methods

    748 patients undergoing percutaneous coronary intervention or elective catheterisation in nine USA centres were assigned in a 2×2 factorial randomisation either off-site prayer by established congregations of various religions or no off-site prayer (double-blinded) and MIT therapy or none (unmasked). The primary endpoint was combined in-hospital major adverse cardiovascular events and 6-month readmission or death. Prespecified secondary endpoints wer
  66. Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 6:14 am
    Continued...

    Prespecified secondary endpoints were 6-month major adverse cardiovascular events, 6 month death or readmission, and 6-month mortality.
    Findings

    371 patients were assigned prayer and 377 no prayer; 374 were assigned MIT therapy and 374 no MIT therapy. The factorial distribution was: standard care only, 192; prayer only, 182; MIT therapy only, 185; and both prayer and MIT therapy, 189. No significant difference was found for the primary composite endpoint in any treatment comparison. Mortality at 6 months was lower with MIT therapy than with no MIT therapy (hazard ratio 0·35 (95% CI 0·15–0·82, p=0·016).
    Interpretation

    Neither masked prayer nor MIT therapy significantly improved clinical outcome after elective catheterisation or percutaneous coronary intervention.
  67. Profile photo of SapphireHart
    SapphireHart Female 18-29
    412 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 6:21 am
    "Studies have shown that there is no such thing as God." What studies? Can you link them in? If you can`t then come back when you know how to create a vaild argument.

    I think the following joke sums up how prayer does not mean sitting on one`s butt praying and "waiting for God":

    It had been raining for days, and a flood came over the land. The waters rose so that one man was forced to climb on a roof.

    A man in a rowboat appeared, "Get in!" he called. "No" said the man "I have faith in the Lord; he will save me." So the man in the boat left. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

    (See next post)
  68. Profile photo of SapphireHart
    SapphireHart Female 18-29
    412 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 6:21 am

    A man in a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" he called. "No," said the man "I have faith in the Lord; he will save me." So the man in the speedboat left. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

    The waters rose. A helicopter appeared and the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man. "No" said the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; he will save me." So the helicopter left. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

    The waters rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, drowned.

    When he reached heaven, the man marched over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
  69. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 6:31 am
    Thank`s for posting the link Crakrjack - especially as you must have realised the results were a far cry from your original figures.

    Still.. I`m surprised at the final findings, that there wasn`t a minor benefit from prayer, a placebo effect if you will.
  70. Profile photo of Oystah
    Oystah Female 40-49
    4032 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 6:36 am
    Prayer is a nice gesture - like sending someone a card. IMO, it`s just an expression of caring, love, support - whatever. Nothing wrong with it. I don`t believe it can cure, but it`s a nice thing to do if you are into that sort of thing.
  71. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 6:50 am
    Nice joke SapphireHart.

    It does suggest a dangerous model though. You don`t have a direct communication from God, so you have to second guess what he`s saying to you. That`s not very far removed from the Dice Man
  72. Profile photo of GuardinGnome
    GuardinGnome Male 18-29
    2893 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 6:56 am
    This post makes me want to burn down a puppy mill.
    WITH ALL THE PUPPIES INSIDE.
    DUHN DUHN DUUUUUUUUUHN.........
  73. Profile photo of inversegrav
    inversegrav Male 30-39
    770 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 7:13 am
    its amazing how it is forbidden to post anything making fun of people of paticular races but you can insult, offend, make fun of, condemn, and genearlly accuse of being anything but normal humans, those of us who have faith in God.
  74. Profile photo of Tiredofnicks
    Tiredofnicks Male 30-39
    5097 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 7:30 am
    inversegrav: You`re not born religious.
  75. Profile photo of ryan99
    ryan99 Male 13-17
    2345 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 7:40 am
    THE GOOD LAWD O`MIGHTY WILL FIX E`RYTHING IF WE JUST WAIT!
  76. Profile photo of robbstercraw
    robbstercraw Male 30-39
    49 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:04 am
    Telling an athiest to go to hell....priceless
  77. Profile photo of asnodeus
    asnodeus Male 18-29
    101 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:09 am
    @fattpill
    So let me get this straight, if I don`t have the "right heart" he won`t prove his existence, thus condemn me for eternal damnation just because he`s too shallow to prove his existence to people who contest his existence?
    Your comment is just another proof that you, as a religious person have no reasonable argument to prove you are right. "Non believers won`t ever see". It`s just running away from the hard truth - there is no god, never was, never will be. But since you can`t prove it, you`re just gonna say I won`t believe it? So weak.

    If i repeated some arguments sorry, please prove me wrong. Oh so pretty please.:)
  78. Profile photo of Locke357
    Locke357 Male 18-29
    128 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:13 am
    @Fattpill: "God has proved he exsist to me with out any shadow of a doubt "

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
  79. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:16 am
    @SapphireHart your "joke" makes no sense because the boats and the helicopter would have come regardless of him praying.

    Just sayin`... seems like a fairly LARGE oversight.
  80. Profile photo of jpfu220
    jpfu220 Male 18-29
    65 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:16 am
    fattpill, you arent helping the cause man. if you don`t like IAB then don`t come here... but don`t insult people. they insult christians, but i don`t insult them back. love wins.
  81. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:23 am
    @inversegrav - I`m sure you`ll be just fine. You have god on your side, after all. Maybe if you pray hard enough, everyone on IAB will renounce their evil heathen ways and become christian.

    Pfffffft. God can blow me, that good-for-nothing non-nice individual.
  82. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:27 am
    the only reason this post is on here is to stir up the Christians so the atheist can laugh at them because they don`t understand.
    LOL. Yep. Statement verified. :-P

    God has proved he exsist to me with out any shadow of a doubt
    ...you have more holes that a sponge...

    the moderator did not see that as post worthy so IAB is biased and pointless.
    Then maybe you should leave. Although I recommend you don`t. It`s been a while since we had an extremist, let alone an entertaining one.

    so go to hell
    *yawn*
  83. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36842 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Sometimes, prayers are immediately answered . . .


  84. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:29 am
    Fatpill

    Listen to jpfu220, he speaks the truth. Besides, according to you, we`re all going to burn in hell for eternity, which should be enough. Unless, of course, you don`t really believe that yourself. I mean, if you honestly did believe that, you wouldn`t feel this need to condemn everyone on here for making a few jokes, right?
  85. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:43 am
    so IAB is biased and pointless.

    After they just approved videos by Lee Doren, and allows `conservatives` to comment on these threads.

    B17ch please
  86. Profile photo of tn11
    tn11 Male 18-29
    1587 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:57 am
    Deep stuff going on here in IAB...

    *sticks head in*

    Ahh.... bashing religion... ummm...

    *slowly backs out*
  87. Profile photo of Trypno
    Trypno Male 18-29
    474 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:01 am
    Ironically enough posted by someone who`d rather be on the internet than actually out fixing problems
  88. Profile photo of tn11
    tn11 Male 18-29
    1587 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:04 am
    Trypno- that is a really good point.
  89. Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:05 am
    I would argue that the human brain is indeed a powerful and misunderstood tool.The placebo effect is very real and is based on a lie.I would argue that prayer has the exact same power as any other placebo.People don`t hate religion because of the help and caring it "inspires"(though caring about others without a system of punishment and rewards is far more noble in IMO)people hate religion because it tries to tell them what to do without presenting a reasonable argument as to the pros and cons of said action. I assume this is because when religion was created,it was a system of control to help people who couldn`t really think not do stupid things(like eat undercooked pork,or slaughter the cow that provides milk and help plow the feilds and gather water)These simple folk couldn`t reason their way out of a wet paper bag and needed something beyond reason and logic to believe in...the smart folk at the time created god...God may indeed exists, but its not what you imagine if it
  90. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:09 am
    Trypno and tn11 - And what exactly are y`all doing? We`re ALL on the internet right now instead of out solving problems. How`d y`all manage to get computers up onto those high horses you`re sitting on?
  91. Profile photo of muffalletta
    muffalletta Male 18-29
    543 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:10 am
    i want to say so much...but ill just agree with gerry1of1
  92. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:18 am
    Hey Fattpill, why don`t you stop and take a deep breath and actually form a coherent thought in your head before committing it to the screen? You are literally making ZERO sense. I can`t make heads or tails of your latest post.
  93. Profile photo of mithraela
    mithraela Female 18-29
    535 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:23 am
    I think spirituality is a personal thing. though it can be shared it cannot be proven. Prayer has many benefits to those who do it with a balanced life and the above chart is bullschit for such people as prayer is organically woven into their successful lifestyle. I normally wouldn`t mention such things because I would rather talk about eating pussy, but I don`t think it should go without mention that spirituality has had its place in history as a part of our human success. Yes religion was always there to squash many advances in science and philosophy, but spirituality has often been a drive for many to make their discoveries. Both Da Vinci and Newton had spiritual ideas that drove them and occasionally Einstein as well. I do not think that being involved in prayer or other forms of spirituality has to equal laziness and close any more than being involved in science. Even some of the founding fathers being deists (not christian) had an effect on how they formed our government.
  94. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:28 am
    Fattpill - The only person making themselves look dumb here is you, boy. You`re missing the points of everyone who is trying to debate you. You blow off valid points, call people names...you`re such a cliche. And your thought process is so backwards and nonsensical that I have to imagine you have some sort of autism.

    Tell me this, though: are you a "born-again"? Because you are SO annoying and close-minded that there is really no other explanation. Born-agains are the absolute worst when it comes to actually be rational.
  95. Profile photo of tn11
    tn11 Male 18-29
    1587 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:32 am
    murphybed- pointing out that someone has a good point does not make me condescending. Saying, "You all are full of poo because you aren`t doing anything and I am better than you" is condescending. Hey, I have my flaws, and I know that. I wish I did more to improve my life but it is easier to do nothing on the internet. =/
  96. Profile photo of tn11
    tn11 Male 18-29
    1587 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:34 am
    You`re missing the points of everyone who is trying to debate you. You blow off valid points, call people names...you`re such a cliche. And your thought process is so backwards and nonsensical that I have to imagine you have some sort of autism.

    does anyone else see this as ironic?
  97. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:34 am
    Erm, fatpill, this business with the `go to hell`, I`ll try and break it to you gently.

    In a word...

    meh.
  98. Profile photo of LunaticB83
    LunaticB83 Male 18-29
    24 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:35 am
    I think many people here will agree to say fattpill is a clown.
    Go and see your friend the pope and ask him what does he do with the billons they have stollen from the poor people over the past 1000yrs and more...definatly not helping them.Why would a god let people like that represent him?
    This is just the oldest mafia ever.
  99. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:36 am
    Aaah, the discussion that nobody wins
  100. Profile photo of tn11
    tn11 Male 18-29
    1587 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:37 am
    LunaticB83-YEAH! DOWN WITH THE POPE! GO PROTESTANTS!

    wait what?
  101. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:38 am
    Har har, tn11. You sure are a clever one.
  102. Profile photo of LunaticB83
    LunaticB83 Male 18-29
    24 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:38 am
    Naah not pretestant either...I`m not a fan of religions and definatly not a fan of the pope :)
  103. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:41 am
    Though thank you, the proof of God via your misunderstanding of Y Chromosome Adam was priceless. You know there is also a mytochondrial Eve right? How about the bit that our Y Chromo papa and Mitochondrial mommy weren`t about at the same time - has that bit passed you buy?
  104. Profile photo of LunaticB83
    LunaticB83 Male 18-29
    24 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:42 am
    hahahaha,there goes fattpill....calling people stupid...no i don`t know who you are and i don`t want to waste my time with people like you ;)
    Nobody likes you here fattpill....turn you computer off hahahahahaha
  105. Profile photo of LunaticB83
    LunaticB83 Male 18-29
    24 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:44 am
    hahahaha,there goes fattpill....calling people stupid...no i don`t know who you are and i don`t want to waste my time with people like you ;)
    Nobody likes you here fattpill....turn you computer off hahahahahaha
  106. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:46 am
    Fattpill`s troll status is confirmed. No one can be this stupid, right?

    And if he`s serious, then I`m pretty sure that`s proof enough that god does not exist.
  107. Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:47 am
    Religion makes no sense. That`s all that needs to be said.
  108. Profile photo of LunaticB83
    LunaticB83 Male 18-29
    24 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:48 am
    Exactly what i said...he`s some kind of clown.This is my last post don`t worry.
  109. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:50 am
    @fattpill

    "scientist have proved that the "Y" gene that is in Men can be traced back to ONLY one man"

    You`re thinking of mitochondrial Eve, not Adam.

    Yes, we are all descended from one woman. But no, that does not mean that there was only one woman alive at the time that mitochondrial Eve existed.

    All it means is that only her descendants survived until the present day, and the descendants of her living peers did not.

    It`s that kind of sloppy thinking that makes us mock you.
  110. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:52 am
    @mutsuko - there is also a Y Chromosome Adam, which is what he is referring to, but no, he really doesn`t have a scooby does he.
  111. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:56 am
    Fattpill - TROWLL? Did you seriously just try to spell "troll" and hit a "w"? How did you manage that?! The letter W is nowhere NEAR the letters O or L. I`m pretty sure you just f-cking with me. Your godawful typing has to be on purpose.
  112. Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:56 am
    None of you are going to sway the others. It`s best to stop the ad hominem, it just makes all of you look ignorant. Everyone has their own views on a personal god, there`s no need to push it on anyone else. Fattpill, your profile says you`re 35, please act like it.
  113. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:00 am
    Haha, I`m 25, dude. And you`re 35 and you`re referencing Boxxy? Really? That`s pretty sad.
  114. Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:00 am
    Fattpill, it says I am between 13 and 17. I am 16. Unfortunately, it seems you possess an incapability to read more than two sequential numbers at a time.
  115. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:01 am
    @fatpill - you are welcome.
  116. Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:02 am
    Fattpill, it says I am between 13 and 17. I am 16. Unfortunately, it seems you possess an incapability to read more than two sequential numbers at a time.
  117. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:02 am
    @MattPrince

    "there is also a Y Chromosome Adam, which is what he is referring to, but no, he really doesn`t have a scooby does he."

    I`m a little out of date, then. Last I`d read on the subject was that the "Adam" was only hypothesised. That`s pretty cool news. :)

    @fattpill

    "I am not sure of the details as I do not know a whole lot about the subject."

    If you don`t understand a subject, it makes you look a fool when you draw incorrect conclusions from it and base your arguments around it.
  118. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:02 am


    Problem fattpill?
  119. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:03 am
    Incidentally, is anyone else appalled by Fatpill calling Murphybed "little girl"?

    I`m astonished. His profile states he`s under 39 years old, yet he`s talking like a 19th century slave-owner.
  120. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:04 am
    have you thought through what you are trying to say

    Tu quoque
  121. Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:05 am
    Musuko42 - He`s just a sexist, pitiful troll. Well, he just said he`s not going to talk to girls anymore, I think he just came out of the closet.
  122. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:06 am
    @fattpill



    "Quite whining like a girlie man!"
  123. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:07 am
    ok stop telling us that there is a god...



    sorry for the wide pic
  124. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:07 am
    Fattpill, you telling me to think through what I`m trying to say is pretty hillarious, seeing as you haven`t been able to make one post without stumbling over your own fingers.
  125. Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:13 am
    Fattpill - "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

    -Epicurus, 341 BC, Samos – 270 BC, Athens
  126. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:18 am
    @fatpill, You got us wrong. We don`t censor anything because we don`t create anything. Your submission was long and boring and did the opposite of what IAB is about. Sorry but you should know that by now.
  127. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:21 am
    uhm fattpill god kille the whole planet except the dude Noa so I would prefer that all the humans died once again and this time god could try noto mess up and make a brain that doesnt acsept "evil".

    no I`m didn`t waste my time on this ilogical book
    so where did satan come from? isn`t it from a fallen angel? and if so why the Fck can`t god make him disappear?
  128. Profile photo of collegebound
    collegebound Male 18-29
    3745 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:22 am
    "says your 13 so how do you even know how a 35 year old is supposed to act. another silly girl"

    im 19 and i know that a 35 yaer old is supposed to act like he has sence and NOT troll kids for a living...

    also the bible says something like "God helps he who helps himself"...or something along those lines...most christians just want god to do everything for them but if you read the bible when they pray they pray for god to give them the strength to do said task...

    "God didn`t do this. Haven`t you read the Bible. It clearly says satan has dominion of this world."

    Satan never existed before God created the earth (or at least he didnt have anything to rule over before its creation). my point is God allowed/allows him to do whatever he wants. but thats just my oppinion...gonna go take a walk or something now...
  129. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:23 am
    Zaokii thank you, that`s exactly what I was searching for
  130. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:24 am
    MattPrince: You quoted 1 study out of the 1200+ studies done in the link I provided. Most of the studies do show improvement in peoples health. It is not `placebo effect`, when it actually works. Placebo effect is telling someone they are getting medicine when they really aren`t and they start to feel better., So you have things confused.

    Acupuncture was similarly reviled by the medical community at one time, but it is now an accepted method for treating pain and other miladies.

    Even if you`re an atheist, it`s hard to refute that there is a strong connection between mind and body and that meditation (no matter what form it takes) can be helpful.
  131. Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:25 am
    Fattpill -
    S: (adj) almighty, all-powerful, omnipotent (having unlimited power)
    Please learn English.
    Stop making excuses and lying to yourself. Do you really believe that bullcrap? You do realize you have been brainwashed, correct?

  132. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:28 am
    fattpill that`s not an answer...


  • Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:28 am
    Fattpill - Such ad hominem! If you don`t know what that means, you might want to look that up, too. You do know how to use a search engine, correct?
  • Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:28 am
    Fattpill, where are you getting this from? Righthearted? Legal structure? The bible says nothing about god giving himself rules to follow. And so now god is waiting for all the "right" people to accept Jesus, then he`ll show himself? Why? And where on earth did you read THAT? On a billboard in Arkansas?
  • Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:28 am
    @fatpill I watched your video. IT WAS BORING! Stop your whining and grow up.
  • Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:34 am
    Hello again Crakrjack - sorry I did look at your link but I couldn`t find any peer-reviewed results that concluded "Heart patients were 14 times more likely to die following surgery if they did not participate in a religion."

    If you have a link to that then yes, please, let`s see it.

    Otherwise, yes, I would expect the ability to remain calm, via meditation or prayer, to have a (small) beneficial effect in some circumstances.
  • Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:34 am
    fatpill
    make some logic out of all the controversy in the bible then, maybe then I could start to think of the possibility that it`s may be true.

    ignoring a legit question doesn`t make it true just so you know
  • Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:35 am
    If god is all powerful fatpill, then why is Satan in charge of the earth which is full of humans that god loves? Either god isn`t all powerful, or he doesn`t really love you. Also with the genetics, have you ever considered the neanderthals?

    www.time.com/time/health/article /0,8599,1987568,00.html

    Recent studies suggest that modern humans have the remnants of neanderthal DNA, also LOL at trying to use science to prove religion... derp to you good sir.

    @Zaokii...beat me to it, but the second part about the dna is still relevant:)
  • Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:36 am
    @fatpill, I`ve suggested many things that have not made "the grade" here. Its just the way IAB rolls.
    Deal with it.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:39 am
    Placebo effect is telling someone they are getting medicine when they really aren`t and they start to feel better.

    Nope sorry Crakr he does not have terms confused. The placebo effect is not limited in the scope you`ve defined. The mere presence of gauze bandages on wounds have been shown to provide pain relief even though:
    1)The bandages were not medicated
    2)No extra information regarding said bandages was provided to the patient

    We even conduct placebo studies on rats all the time. Do they understand English? Nope.

    Even your own comment does not back up it`s premise. So prayer itself is a placebo.
  • Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:41 am
    America, this is why you`re fat.
  • Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:45 am
    It makes me wonder, though, why religious people think god helps them so much. Why can`t they accept that what they have done with their life happened from their own hands? Any achievement was done by YOU, not god. Life is what you make of it. You have the chance to improve this world - this hedonistic, completely physical, awesome, beautiful, ever-changing, dangerous, thrilling world. You could invent something. Think great thoughts and write them down. Be the change you wish to see in this world. You can pass on a better world to your children, and your children`s children, in the good faith that they will one day do the same. And no, you won`t be there to see it. You`ll be dead. But, you`ll die with a smile on your lips, knowing you were good. Not "good" by some idiotic standard invented by superstitious morons 2000 years ago. Good by YOUR standards. Good in the sense that you made YOUR world better for the future. YOUR STEPS will echo in ETERNITY.
  • Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:47 am
    @CrakrJak.

    "It is not `placebo effect`, when it actually works."

    The placebo effect refers to the improvement in health that patients often show when they are convinced that a certain treatment will help them, irrespective of the actual effects of the treatment.

    It`s the being convinced that causes the effect.

    All you can prove is that prayer can help. You cannot prove that it`s due to supernatural powers.

    We CAN prove that ISN`T due to supernatural power; run trials including patients who are:

    Prayed for and told about it.
    Prayed for and not told about it.
    Not prayed for.
    And most importantly: not prayed for and told they are being prayed for.

    Then compare the results. I hypothesis you will see improvement in those who are told they are being prayed for, regardless of whether they are actually being prayed for or not.
  • Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:49 am
    fatpill, Hopefully you are aware that when the Bible was written there was no such thing as schools. Any secrets to life they had were dreamt up and now can be scientifically disciphered. There was no great flood, Noah didn`t save 2 of every animal, there was however a regional flood. We also know through science that the earth is some 4.5 billion years old and the entire universe some 13.5 billion. So if those items in your book are wrong wouldn`t everything else in the Bible become suspect?
  • Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:51 am
    Fatpill

    I`m genuinely interested in this post you keep complaining about not getting posted. Care to link to it so we can decide if it was IAB worthy ourselves?
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:53 am
    fattpill: "then that is a better answer don`t come on here Lying saying the video was too long cause that was bull crap. Either way IAB censored me"

    Oh, stop whining. IAB gets between 100-200 submissions per day, of which we post around 10 a day. There`s currently 533 submissions in the queue. Even our highest-rating submitters get about 10% of their submissions approved. If you don`t get a submission approved, it`s not censorship. It`s because it was lame.
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:53 am
    Heck, let`s throw it out to the community. Your submission is posted below. It`s a Youtube video with 31 hits at time of posting. Your submitted description reads "Y chromosone in Men - Dumb rude atheist need not reply (only smart ones)". In case anyone doesn`t have time, it`s a video proclaiming that genetics proves young earth creationism, that mankind is descended from Adam and Eve and that all humanity is 6000 years old, being the only survivors of Noah`s flood.

    LINK TO FATTPILL`S "CENSORED" SUBMISSION

    Now, if we`ve read the community wrong and this is the kind of thing you find relieving of boredom, then please let us know and we`ll post it.

    Until then fattpill, please go have a lie down.
  • Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:53 am
    fattpill
    You ignorantly said
    no I consciously said I didn`t wasted my time.
    but that doesn`t mean I would ignore what you have to say.

    I read you comment on how god doesn`t make the world suffer, and my comeback was:
    then why doesn`t god make the devil disapear?

    now I`m telling you I`m not going to ignore your respons so tell me why, and make me belive that there is a possibility of a god.
  • Profile photo of Zaokii
    Zaokii Female 18-29
    78 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:01 am
    Fattpill - I`m 16 and can`t legally patent something where I live, though I have ideas. My dad has co-signed on a piece of workout equipment, and we got all the way to the prototype stage, except they demanded $16,000. We don`t have a spare $16,000. I`ve also worked together with my physics teacher and we created a new way to calculate some stuff. And no, I will not tell you what, because I can`t do anything about it until I`m 18. I think humans, even you, have enough potential to figure it out. I am not mentally capacitated to allow a higher being, because I`m a narcissist. I AM the higher being. I just told you that you have potential to make something of your life, that you are valuable, and you threw that out the window. Think the way you want, I`m tired of trying to give people high self-esteem.
  • Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:01 am
    fattpill oh sorry i didn`t quite get that
    It clearly says satan has dominion of this world
    So you are telling me that god creates a world where there is a ruler of the world already?

    if so, sorry, but that not verry logical...
  • Profile photo of missPWNAGE
    missPWNAGE Female 18-29
    298 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:03 am
    I need to live in an atheist community so that I do not have to deal with such intolerance and bigotry... Religion is seriously one of the biggest factors for me in whether or not to leave the US... I know I`ll get some stupid comment about atheists being intolerant and yada yada... So here is my response ahead of time:

    Atheists only feel the need to butt in on religious comversations because the religious folk feel the need to rule everyone elses lives - either by just telling them or through some of the wacky laws we have today. We only want equality and tolerance. No tolerance for the intolerant! And the religious are usually VERY intolerant. Not all, I know, but MOST. But this is why atheists are viewed (normally) as hostile. In no way do I endorse the extremists or just plain rude a$sh0les, as you can find those types anywhere... but we need to stop this rediculousness... Tolerance - practice it.
  • Profile photo of JimboSlice
    JimboSlice Male 18-29
    149 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:06 am
    youll be given cushy jobs
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:34 am
    "Concerning the video I submitted. My claim comes from not having full knowledge of the subject at hand. It seems to me that the satements are true so if that is the case then I am sure someone on here could Illuminate me. I recognize there are some VERY intelligent people on here and I wanted their imput"

    Fair enough. But this isn`t Yahoo Answers. If you want to know more on a subject, I suggest you don`t submit a lame video to IAB in the hope that some people will inform you in the ensuing comments. All the while bitching about how you were "censored".

    To answer your questions though, you might find this link helpful.
  • Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10441 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:36 am
    No intelligence to back up why I have holes just a dumb statement without merit. Typical ignorant jerk. Although I am NOT an extremist. you would NOT be able to understand if I explained because there`s a lot of big words

    There is nothing I would gain by explaining, regardless of how thoroughly, why you are a moron. I am not a troll, after all, unlike you.

    Looks like you got the attention of Davymid. I would suggest backing down for now. Your antics may be entertaining, but recognize there is a fine line between being hilariously stupid and downright offensive. You wouldn`t want to get yourself banned now would you?

  • Profile photo of Intaresting
    Intaresting Male 18-29
    812 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:36 am
    But what if you pray really, REALLY hard? What then?
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:38 am
    Greatest trick he ever pulled was to make People believe he doesn`t exist.
    I love that film.
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:49 am
    Concerning the video I submitted. My claim comes from not having full knowledge of the subject at hand. It seems to me that the satements are true so if that is the case then I am sure someone on here could Illuminate me. I recognize there are some VERY intelligent people on here and I wanted their imput
    I have, in the past, taken the time to explain to you the logic flaws or erroneous statements you have made on various religious or scientific topics. And your response has invariably been to ignore it or reply that I can`t understand the Bible until I believe in God.
    So why would I bother trying to explain the nuances of genetics, or pointing out that nowhere does the guy mention the names of anyone involved in this 6,000 year claim?

    To use a charming phrase you often employ when someone counters one of your arguments, or to avoid having to explain something you say - why should I cast MY pearls before swine?
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:51 am
    Cajun: Bandages, even when not medicated, restrict movement and isolate the area from the outside. Those factors alone do lead to some pain control, that is not placebo effect.

    MattPrince: Dr. Daniel Benor (Complementary Medical Research 4:1, 1990) found 131 controlled studies involving prayer or spiritual healing. Of these, 77 showed statistically significant results.

    The Southern Medical Journal featured a study from Andrew Weaver and Kevin Flannerly describing how the spirituality of cancer patients determined quality of life during care. Those with faith had a better quality of life than those with out it.
  • Profile photo of ruthless1990
    ruthless1990 Female 18-29
    3001 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:13 pm
    ohhh IAB, your religion hating ways really are pathetic sometimes.
  • Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:17 pm
    ohhh you religious people, , your gay, other religon, porn, drugs, "freedom" hating ways really are pathetic sometimes.
  • Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:24 pm
    Real theist know that Hard work gets things accomplished. For the things that are above our heads we simply pray and leave it to God. I`m a firm believer in the principle "Accept the things you cannot change, Change the things you can and know the difference between the two" and as for prayers not being able to fix the problem, that`s bull to me. I have plenty pf personal experience where prayer was the only thing that could fix a situation.
  • Profile photo of the_windy
    the_windy Female 18-29
    1589 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:29 pm
    Lord_Voldemort7 tweeted "I`ll be yelled at as per usual for this but #prayforJapan? No. If you want to help DO something. They want money, aid & food; not thoughts." Lots of people were not happy with him.
    He went on to say more.
  • Profile photo of snukatoof
    snukatoof Male 18-29
    58 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:31 pm
    "The Southern Medical Journal featured a study from Andrew Weaver and Kevin Flannerly describing how the spirituality of cancer patients determined quality of life during care. Those with faith had a better quality of life than those with out it."

    Yet they still die horribly from cancer. But... god works in mysterious ways??....
  • Profile photo of britt566
    britt566 Female 18-29
    2290 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    this didn`t make me chuckle... or smile... or interest me much... you`re stating the obvious... Where`s the catch line?
  • Profile photo of DGbME
    DGbME Male 40-49
    451 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:10 pm
    it is so annoying that people misconstrue "appropriate" prayer. CLEARY JUST PRAYING ABOUT SOMETHING TO BE DONE THAT YOU CAN DO YOURSELF IS NOT GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
    That does not mean that prayers, made with legitimate faith, are not answered.
  • Profile photo of DGbME
    DGbME Male 40-49
    451 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    Snukatuff: No, it is saying the don`t die as miserably. We ALL are going to die, someday, from SOMETHING. It is saying those with faith suffer less and enjoy the end MORE.
    Skeptics are so annoying with their misconstruing of information to suit their skepticism.
  • Profile photo of darkgear6
    darkgear6 Male 70 & Over
    1378 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    let them waste their time
  • Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:16 pm
    "Real theist know that Hard work gets things accomplished. For the things that are above our heads we simply pray and leave it to God. I`m a firm believer in the principle "Accept the things you cannot change, Change the things you can and know the difference between the two" and as for prayers not being able to fix the problem, that`s bull to me. I have plenty pf personal experience where prayer was the only thing that could fix a situation. "

    Name one, in detail.
  • Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    "Snukatuff: No, it is saying the don`t die as miserably. We ALL are going to die, someday, from SOMETHING. It is saying those with faith suffer less and enjoy the end MORE.
    Skeptics are so annoying with their misconstruing of information to suit their skepticism."

    Because they`re too weak to rely on their family and friends and doctors?

    Oh yeah, I forgot; my faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is what keeps me going strong.
  • Profile photo of mackin
    mackin Male 30-39
    210 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:19 pm
    Meh post is Meh...Satkela makes sense. People who think prayer is a substitute for action are clearly confused, but nothing is saying both can`t be done

    I`m Buddhist, BTW, so I`m not referring to ever asking the magic old guy in the sky myself. Prayer (or whatever you want to call it) can change the person praying, but of course it doesn`t feed the hungry or fix a destroyed building.

    Of course, posting on blogs doesn`t get much done, either.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:20 pm
    that is not placebo effect.

    Again your comment does not prove this assertion. As Musuko pointed out prayer in this sense is a placebo.
  • Profile photo of Xerasia
    Xerasia Female 18-29
    1181 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:22 pm
    "That does not mean that prayers, made with legitimate faith, are not answered."

    maybe so, DGbME. they`re probably not answered because there`s no magical man in the sky to grant them.
  • Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10742 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:28 pm
    By the very following definition prayer, and the presence of bandages or even physicians themselves can be considered to have a "placebo effect".

    "The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health not attributable to an actual treatment."

    So is prayer an "actual treatment"? Are the mere presence of bandages (other than keeping wounds covered), or physicians an "actual treatment"?

    Yet as some studies have shown they can actually improve the health of some individuals.
  • Profile photo of SmilinSam
    SmilinSam Female 18-29
    3599 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 1:52 pm
    HAHAHAHA oh truth and reason how i love thee.
  • Profile photo of snukatoof
    snukatoof Male 18-29
    58 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 2:01 pm
    "No, it is saying the don`t die as miserably."

    Actually, prayer or not, one who dies due to cancer will in fact die equally as miserably.
    Prayer may help a person `feel` better about dying, but the malignant destructive tumor inside their body will continue to spread to a person`s brain, stomach, lungs, liver, etc. Until at some point they lie in hospice emaciated to the likes of a death camp survivor until their ability to process oxygen and nutrients gives out and they spend their last days confined to a bed or couch in adult diapers gasping unconsciously for breath, while loved ones say goodbye.

    Any person claiming prayer makes it easier is still speaking out of ignorant dogmatic bliss, and obviously hasn`t witnessed it for themselves.
  • Profile photo of missPWNAGE
    missPWNAGE Female 18-29
    298 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 2:12 pm
    @fattpill

    because the religious run the world... seeing as you`re from the US as well, there`s no denying the amount of laws derived from religious belief. it`s not right. that`s why "we" butt in!
  • Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:13 pm
    lol. prayer is useless. and those that pray are dumb for doing it.
  • Profile photo of LittleMickey
    LittleMickey Female 18-29
    227 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:18 pm
    How would you know? Have you actually tried it?
  • Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:24 pm
    IAB, why do you make these posts to intentionally poke at people with religious beliefs? Why cant you grow up and just let people live their lives regardless if they have different beliefs than many of you? In all honesty, im sure these posts do more harm to your website than help, as it agitates and irritates many users and can turn off many to your site.

    Course half the commenting users on this site are trolls as well and go after the easiest target possible, so I wouldnt be all too surprised if you somehow throw this back into my face and post this crap even more often.
  • Profile photo of phunkmunkie
    phunkmunkie Male 30-39
    4 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 3:45 pm
    Ice Dragon... IAB don`t lie friend-o. Don`t hate the player, hate the game (that you religous nuts created)
  • Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:05 pm
    God I love IABs religious arguments, the irresistable force vs the immovable object. Go Fatpill...
  • Profile photo of SmilinSam
    SmilinSam Female 18-29
    3599 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:08 pm
    @icedragon.... cuz it`s so much FUN!! :-P
  • Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 4:10 pm
    apathetic ignorant people are dumb

    i agree, i don`t like religous people either.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 5:27 pm
    He gave his Son to die for your sins so ONLY allowing people with rightheartedness to be shown his salvation is not shallow. What is that not good enough for you he has to come down here himself and tell you face to face?
    No, that`s NOT good enough, because any suicidal moron can get himself killed for a cause.

    Just because he`s insane and claims to be the son of god doesn`t mean it`s true. It means he`s suicidal AND insane.

    here is the video IAB censored
    Descending from one man or one woman does not mean no evolution occurred. It means that natural selection occurred, in that the descendants of that one genetic mutant were able to survive better than the others.

    In other words, it doesn`t prove OR disprove your religious crap. It`s just a boring as hell video making a lot of conjectures.

    Doesn`t help that he doesn`t present those studies.

    Overall though, it`s BORING, that`s why it wasn`t passed.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 5:37 pm
    First off Omnipotent only means he is everywhere at all times it has nothing to do with his ability to handle evil.
    Might wanna check your dictionary on that one, bud. "Omnipotent" means all-powerful, which means he should be able to take out evil. He just chooses not to.

    For that matter, it also means he should have been able to foresee the fall of Lucifer, Adam and Eve dis-obeying him, etc.

    It ALSO means that he was powerful enough to prevent them, but he just let them happen.

    Hell, it means he probably laid out the plans for all of it to happen.

    Which means that he`s the cause of all evil in this world.

    Which means that he`s just a two-faced liar, a sadist, and just generally an *sshole.

    At least Satan is honest in his actions.

    God`s just a hypocrite.

    And if he`s NOT "omnipotent," then he`s still a liar for claiming to be.
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:00 pm
    Right because all religious people do is pray and hope for the best. They don`t feed their communities, act as quasi counselors, donate money to causes all over the globe, set up missionaries in backwards places to teach people how to read...or anything that actually amounts to action, right?

    And of course atheists live their lives in humble servitude to all of those less fortunate than them, and not waste their time with self-righteous condescenion towards people who believe differently from them.

    Stupid post, stupid debate. Both groups "know" they are right, and neither group has any real evidence. Good luck getting that argument solved. Bad people are all around, and generalities are just that.

    Whether you push one drug or the other, you are still a pusher.
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:09 pm
    Furthermore, action can easily be free. Volunteering at a habitat for humanity doesn`t cost you a dime unless you count travel, or your own lost wages. And if you do? Pick up a piece of trash on the sidewalk, and there...free.

    And lastly, "geting up and doing something" doesn`t necessarily `solve` any problem. You gonna solve world hunger with a couple of bags of rice? It lets you put a drop in the bucket and feel like you`ve done something (akin to what this chart claims about prayer), but guess what? That rice will be gone next week, and the problem will remain.

    Donating money to Tsunami relief via shelterinabox.com is easy, and quick. So to review, action can be: Quick, easy, free, and make you feel better, however neither prayer nor "action" is going to solve the problems. So let`s check all the boxes on both columns, except for the bottom one.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:15 pm
    the Bible says God knew the end from the beginning so it was all laid out before him
    So you`re saying God isn`t the highest power?
  • Profile photo of psychosax
    psychosax Male 18-29
    121 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 8:56 pm
    I hate to be nitpicky, but this post isn`t saying anything about religion or religious people. The only thing this post says is that praying is, by itself, accomplishing less than actually going out and helping people.
  • Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:07 pm
    lol maybe?
  • Profile photo of Maxables
    Maxables Male 70 & Over
    51 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:41 pm
    I KNEW IAB was atheist! Awesome.
  • Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 9:52 pm
    Fattpill - Wow, I return to see how this discussion has turned out only to find that you`ve been commenting ALL DAY in this thread? You`re 35 and you sat here arguing for the last 11 hours? Pathetic, man.
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:06 pm
    Pill, they aren`t gonna not post your videos because of personality it is content that counts. The moderators here are very laid back until you cross a certain threshold and then you get banned. I have only seen it happen once (though I`m sure it has happened more in my 6 years here), other than spammers.

    On a side note you are fighting an uphill battle as IAB is overwhelmingly anti-religion and ultra liberal. (Funny, considering liberals tout tolerance for gays, abortions, and minorities, but apparently tolerance on religion or gun legislation is an exception.)

    Murphy, are you new here? People bicker on these boards for hours every day, just post something about religion, government, or america being fat and you`ll see. Most do so while at work in a spare tab to keep the boredom at bay. The "owners" love it because more comments and more fighting = more page views and more moolah. (Not the mods, as they are vols.)
  • Profile photo of AngryYouth
    AngryYouth Male 18-29
    734 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:25 pm
    Yeah for atheism! Even if there is a God.... It`s better to die standing, than to live forever on your knees praying.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 10:35 pm
    @Fat

    I`m calling you out on the fact that you said, and I quote

    Yes he knew about all the things that were going to happen the Bible says God knew the end from the beginning so it was all laid out before him
    My post wasn`t pulling your quote out of context, no matter what kind of crap you wanna make it out to be.

    The point I am making is that God either:

    A) Created the plan, in which case he is the source of all evil in the world,

    B) is a creation, and only another cog in the wheel, making him a liar for claiming to be the most powerful existence, because he is following a plan that something else created before he existed, meaning that that something else is, in fact, more powerful.

    Your quote, in fact your entire post, seems to support option B. And you offer no explanation or answer except "uhh... Uh, no, that`s, that`s totally not what I meant!"
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:03 pm
    Ohh you completely disregard EVERYTHING I said
    I might pay attention to more of what you say if you could form a coherent sentence. It tends to help in the understanding process if the thing one is trying to understand isn`t a jumbled stream of consciousness.

    and now you try to twist 7 words I said to foolishly "catch" Me in something. How simple minded of you to ask a question and when someone answers it for you then you act like a monkey and try to twist one phrase they said. Dude I am done with you your a moron
    A) I wasn`t asking a question. After your jumbled rant I called you out on something you said. Now you`re backed into a corner and don`t have an answer.

    B)You love to throw out those "foolish" and "simple-minded" type insults a lot, don`t you?

    Too bad they don`t help your debating skills one bit.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 25, 2011 at 11:05 pm
    Go ahead, ignore me.

    You can gouge out your eyes and cut open your ear-drums, but it won`t make your delusions true. It just means that you`re not only screaming nonsense, but now you`re blind and deaf to reality as well.
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 1:07 am
    I now know that the red highlighted names mean you are moderators or actual owners of IAB and Lazyme484 is Right I do not want to get banned so I apologize to you if I have offended you in the past. I recognize your authority
    Fattpill, don`t sweat it dude. The day a user/commenter gets banned for disagreeing with/dissing a Mod is the day I resign from Moderating I-A-B.

    Generally, people get banned for posting porn or spam. Apart from that, people are free to post whatever they want, personal opinions very much included. It`s a free internet out there.

    Please do not ever feel that you have to apologise for disagreeing with mods/admins on this site. We`re immune to being offended, it`s kinda in the job description.

    Banning users for something as trivial as having a different viewpoint is not what we`re about, at all. Never has been, never will.
  • Profile photo of mitha
    mitha Male 18-29
    269 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 3:22 am
    For the sake of some logic, please don`t write crap like
    "The point I am making is that God either:

    A) Created the plan, in which case he is the source of all evil in the world,

    B) is a creation, and only another cog in the wheel, making him a liar for claiming to be the most powerful existence, because he is following a plan that something else created before he existed, meaning that that something else is, in fact, more powerful."

    Since when does something have to be powerful to create something more powerful? And maybe the thing that created god in your scenario doesn`t exist anymore?

    The bible has many many shortcomings, but trying to argue with it and being so completely wrong is kind of sad :(

    P.S: Great post davy
  • Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 8:15 am
    @yanging:
    My cousin Kawuam was dying from aids and had given up taking his medication and treatment. Through encouragement and family prayer he was healed from his disease.
  • Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 8:17 am
    Why does it seem like most of the post on IAB glorify sin and bash religion?
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 9:59 am
    Yeah, fattpill, if I went around banning people for disagreeing with me we`d have a LOT fewer members :P I don`t want you to bow to my authoritah, I want you to acknowledge my arguments when I take the time to make them. I`m going to make another one now, please do really try to think about it before you answer.

    God gave us TRUE free will.
    When he created you he knew when you were wired that you would choose the road you have.

    Can you not see that these two things are mutually exclusive? If God knows what I am about to do, and God is always right, how can I possibly have a choice? I`m obviously going to do what he already knows I`m going to do. Therefore free will cannot exist.

    As an analogy - if I know for sure what numbers are going to come up in the next lottery, can you possibly say the lottery is random or fair? Or is it fixed?
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 10:02 am
    My cousin Kawuam was dying from aids and had given up taking his medication and treatment. Through encouragement and family prayer he was healed from his disease.

    My grandpa`s second wife was dying of bowel cancer, and doctors told her she had weeks to live. Those of my family who are religious prayed for her recovery. She died anyway.

    If your personal testimony is evidence for God, then mine is equally evidence against God.



    Also, someone being cured of AIDS, under any circumstances, is something that would make the news. Did it? If so, can you provide a link?
  • Profile photo of Cartunze
    Cartunze Male 60-69
    841 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 11:45 am
    Wow, fattpill, take a chill pill. You know almightybob1 is right. No one has ever been cured of AIDS. Not by prayer or otherwise.
  • Profile photo of jburgh
    jburgh Male 18-29
    37 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 2:13 pm
    true. very true.
  • Profile photo of pyrrhios
    pyrrhios Male 30-39
    185 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 2:14 pm
    Uhhh... Magic Johnson never had AIDS. He was HIV+. AIDS is a condition induced by HIV infection. He is taking medication that keeps his viral count so low it is undetectable, but nevertheless, if he stopped taking his medication, it is most likely it will come back and turn into AIDS, as this is what happens to those who are denied their HIV meds. There is no cure for HIV, although one person was recently cured by a complete bone marrow transplant, this is not considered a viable treatment. That said, prayer actually HAS been proven to be as effective as a placebo, which is about 40% effective as actual treatment, and sometimes the only effective solution; but the person has to be aware of the prayer/placebo to have any chance of working at all.
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 3:15 pm
    It is strange that for a group who has no clue as to the answers to these questions, the possibility of some greater entity influencing us is a nonstarter.

    We can bicker over taking a book literally, or figuratively, whether god is a booming voice or a culture that just surpasses our own and possibly influenced our development, but you can`t rule out the possibility of either of these things.So again, neither side has enough damnable evidence to prove the other wrong.

    Me, I say we are all star people, since really we are all made of the compounds created and spread through the universe when stars exploded during a period of rapid formation in the early universe.

    The two don`t have to be exclusive to each other. Some of our greatest minds believe(d) in an infinite intelligence that spanned all of creation, and credit it with their success. Carnegie and Ford are just two of the most prominent. Even if they are crackpots, you going to question their methods?
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 3:23 pm
    Science and "logic" don`t have all the answers either. "What was there before the singularity?" (conjecture only) "How big is the universe?" (since we can only see to the extent of our own horizon (13.7 billion light years in every direction i.e. the age of the universe) "What caused the big bang?", "If you were to travel to the end of our universe (if possible) what is on the other side? (more conjecture).

    Furthermore, with billions of planets and billions of possibilities, there is a theory that anything that could happen has, will, or is. Such as the multiverse theory. Or even the theory that out of several billion chances, humans could exist on another planet by pure probability. Considering our planet has only been around 4 billion years or so, who is to say that something hasn`t evolved beyond anything we understand? A civilization that started a billion years before us for example.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 4:47 pm
    When he created you he knew when you were wired that you would choose the road you have.
    So then he creates us simply to condemn us to hell?

    He already knows what choices we`re going to make, so why make us if he`s just going to condemn us to eternal suffering?

    How does that not make him sadistic?

    What about Magic Johnson who claims to have had AIDS nationally and then later came out and said he was HEALED.
    Magic Johnson takes a roostertail of drugs DAILY to keep his HIV (not AIDS) in check and prevent it from advancing into the AIDS stage. That`s a triumph of science keeping the virus in check, not some man in the sky scooping the virus up out of his bloodstream.

    And if there are all these "rules" he put on himself, then how come he breaks those rules for some people and not others?
  • Profile photo of infantry0
    infantry0 Male 30-39
    164 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 4:51 pm
    This of course, versus not praying and doing nothing. Honestly, is the Christian hating jag that made this doing anything other than trolling with his anti-prayer graph.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 9:09 pm
    See I said you would say it was a lie
    How is it NOT a lie?

    For starters, he NEVER HAD AIDS IN THE FIRST PLACE. He had HIV, which is the precursor to AIDS and can be kept in check.

    By the massive daily dose of all kinds of drugs that he, and more than a few other people, take in order to suppress it, and keep it from becoming AIDS.

    He hasn`t been "cured," if he were to go off his medication for a while the virus would kick back in full gear.

    Fortunately, Magic Johnson has enough money to pay for all of it. That`s why he`s such a "miracle" case of living with HIV, because he can AFFORD to live with HIV.

    Stupid people like you are easily swayed by emotional stories, and quick to attribute them to god. Trying looking up facts once in a while. It has nothing to do with god. It has to do with science, something you clearly slept through Captain Bible Thumper.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 9:12 pm
    No righteous person will take pleasure from anothers pain
    Last I knew, no righteous ANYTHING would deliberately breed hamsters to throw into a fire pit, for ANY reason.

    Yet that`s exactly what god does to people.

    I`d say that intentional infliction of suffering is pretty sadistic.

    If we`re supposed to be "for companionship," then why bother punishing us for all eternity if we do something wrong? Why not just make us not exist at all?

    Except that he`s sadistic, and gets some form of enjoyment, be it a sense of vengeance or justice, out of watching those that don`t kneel down to him suffer.

    A righteous being would forgive and forget.

    So what would you call the being that punishes skepticism or ignorance with eternal suffering?
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 9:24 pm
    Since everyone is avoiding the sensible ground, I have a direct question for you Altaru. Time travel is scientifically proven to be possible, as we know it now. Imagine what a civilization that was a little as 3 or 4 thousand years ahead of us can do with it?

    Now if someone goes to the future and then comes back. And while he`s there he downloads the latest wikipedia that is a couple terrabytes of text. He is omniscient at this point. He may know every action you are going to take, and what the end result is going to be. Does that take away your free will, or change how you act? Only if he tells you what you do.

    I don`t really take sides on the whole religion thing because I can`t say I know the answers for sure...and I`m not saying god is an alien, but if god exists I can`t think of a better definition for something alien to us.
  • Profile photo of psychosax
    psychosax Male 18-29
    121 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 9:32 pm
    @T-Marley

    Care to provide a source to back up your claim that time travel is "scientifically proven to be possible"?
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 9:53 pm
    Well here`s a physicist from university of CT who is working on it.

    Video

    One example. There`s also the group that says they have moved a few lil`bits about 3 ft on a miniscule scale.

    And then there`s the whole fact that because of the weird relationship between time and distance your GPS satellites all have a different speed clock than you have in your car.

    And that`s now, give us 3000 years and see where we`re at. After all, the athiests know we will just keep evolving into more and more awesomeness!
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 26, 2011 at 10:05 pm
    And my personal favorite scientist, Michio Kaku!

    Care to answer what was a hypothetical question in the first place?
  • Profile photo of Qwertyuiop95
    Qwertyuiop95 Male 18-29
    215 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 12:44 am
    I look at a post on prayer and there`s a flame war about time travel going on. Leave it to IAB, I suppose.
  • Profile photo of psychosax
    psychosax Male 18-29
    121 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 7:13 am
    It`s still a hypothetical question. Mallett has not conducted an experiment to PROVE his claim that time travel is possible. Sure, the way a circulating beam of light creates gravity waves is interesting, but that`s as far as he`s gotten. He`s still looking for funding for his research.
    As far as Michio Kaku goes, everything he`s ever said about future technologies is just speculation. Granted, I think he`s cool and all too, but there comes a point where we need to stop substituting published scientific theories with speculation of the future.
    Maybe time travel WILL be possible in the distant future, but please don`t try to sell your thought experiment being preceded by anything more than "maybe."
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 7:37 am
    There have been Tsunami`s that have not made the news. come on you know that`s not a good argument
    Not at all. Tsunamis are fairly rare, but they are not unique. Someone being cured of a disease, for which there is no known cure, is unique.
    As it happens, one man in recorded history has been cured of HIV. He was the subject of a bone marrow transplant in Germany. He was cured by modern medical science. And it was HUGE news.

    Regardless, that was merely an aside. Why is Satkela`s anecdote evidence for God, and mine is not evidence against?

    so I think you are saying that God put the wiring in you therefore he made you to make the choices you do. I think that is what you are asking me.
    Ehhmm... almost. It`s not quite the meaning I had in mind, but it`s fairly close. This analogy sounds more like a programmer writing a program and then knowing how it will perform - which is also a fairly good one.
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 7:42 am
    He knows what choices you are going to make but even still its up to you to make them. I do not think that just because He is aware of them that he orchestrates them.
    He doesn`t necessarily have to do anything to orchestrate them. But 100% foreknowledge of an event means the possibility of anything else happening is 0%.

    Another example. I am trying to decide whether to bake a cake, or brownies. God, who is omniscient, knows with 100% certainty before I choose that I am going to bake brownies.

    Therefore the probability of my baking brownies, P(brownies) = 1, i.e. completely guaranteed. And the probability of my baking a cake, P(cake) = 0, i.e. completely impossible (since God knows for sure that I will choose brownies).

    So if my probability of making a cake is 0, then I have no choice, even if I`m not aware of the probabilities.

    I might think I have a choice, but I don`t.

    Do you follow that logic?
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 7:52 am
    Even if they are crackpots, you going to question their methods?
    No, because their scientific methods for their achievements were secular methods. They did not factor religion into their calculations.

    Science and "logic" don`t have all the answers either.
    Science doesn`t make that claim. In fact, the basis of science is the very opposite claim - we will NEVER know everything there is to know. That is why any theory can always be overturned by new evidence.


    In response to the hypothetical time traveller question:
    He is omniscient at this point. He may know every action you are going to take, and what the end result is going to be. Does that take away your free will, or change how you act?
    Yes, if he is truly omniscient it means I have no free will, since the probability of me taking any action other than the one he knows with 100% certainty I will take is 0. See my cake/brownie analogy.
  • Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 10:58 am
    Fattpill, where are you getting this from? Righthearted? Legal structure? The bible says nothing about god giving himself rules to follow. And so now god is waiting for all the "right" people to accept Jesus, then he`ll show himself? Why? And where on earth did you read THAT? On a billboard in Arkansas?
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 2:15 pm
    @psycho

    I`m sorry, you are right let me rephrase to satisfy the nit in your pick.

    Time travel forward is proven possible, relative to the time that we experience here on Earth (see clocks GPS/car). Time travel backwards is still in theory.

    Note the key word "If" in my question. IF someone, not when, not someone has, but if, which calls in to doubt if it can or can`t happen, but presumes that it is a possibility.

    Also note "is working on it" about Mallett. Everything anyone says about future technologies is speculation. That`s why I said "imagine" what we can do in 3000 years. I doubt we are just going to stop... I mean for Pete`s sake we are talking about time travel, alien species thousands of years ahead of us. I didn`t realize that this needed to be qualified with a "maybe" with all of the other indications that I was talking about a "thought experiment."
  • Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 2:30 pm
    Almighty, I think you should do a little more research about Andrew Carnegie if you don`t think that the Infinite intelligence came in to play in how he went about building his wealth. He hired a man to follow him and his peers for 20 yrs. Check it out. "Think and Grow Rich." "Law of Success" or "The Master-Key to riches." Napoleon Hill. You are confusing infinite intelligence and master minds with religion. To quote "It supports all religions and none." (wise words)

    Also, I`m sorry but I really don`t want to dig through 12 pages of comments to find one analogy about cakes. So we`ll just have to agree to disagree. DISCLAIMER: THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL, NOT SOMETHING I CAN ACTUALLY DO!(for psycho, who apparently has trouble inferring)

    I just don`t see how if I was to go forward 10 years and come back knowing who you were going to marry that it would actually affect your decision making process, especially if you had no knowledge.
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 6:06 pm
    Almighty, I think you should do a little more research about Andrew Carnegie if you don`t think that the Infinite intelligence came in to play in how he went about building his wealth.
    Andrew Carnegie made his fortune in the steel industry. If you can tell me how he implemented his faith into the smelting of steel, then I will concede that his methods were not secular.
    You are confusing methods with motivation.

    Also, I`m sorry but I really don`t want to dig through 12 pages of comments to find one analogy about cakes. So we`ll just have to agree to disagree.
    The cake analogy was in the post before the one you responded to. You literally had to read the very next post to find it.

    However, to avoid any possibility you`ll miss it, I`ll post it again in my next post (which will be immediately above this).
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 27, 2011 at 6:09 pm
    I am trying to decide whether to bake a cake, or brownies. God, who is omniscient, knows with 100% certainty before I choose that I am going to bake brownies.

    Therefore the probability of my baking brownies, P(brownies) = 1, i.e. completely guaranteed. And the probability of my baking a cake, P(cake) = 0, i.e. completely impossible (since God knows for sure that I will choose brownies).

    So if my probability of making a cake is 0, then I have no choice, even if I`m not aware of the probabilities.

    I might think I have a choice, but I don`t.

    I just don`t see how if I was to go forward 10 years and come back knowing who you were going to marry that it would actually affect your decision making process, especially if you had no knowledge.
    It wouldn`t affect it. That`s the point - it`s guaranteed. If you knew, with 100% certainty, I will marry Mary, I have 0% chance of marrying Elizabeth.

    See my cake/brownie analogy.
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 12:57 am
    @altaru

    THIS IS INCREDIBLY MORONICALLY WRONG AND A RIDICULOUS COMPARISON BUT WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT FROM A BI-SEXUAL DUDE.
    So you clicked on his profile and it said "Bisexual".
    Look, bub. When I said it`s cool to post whatever sentiments you like, what I should have said is, I will personally ban you into the Adminisphere if you`re a homophobic bigot. We have a Zero-Tolerance policy on hate-speech. Or at least I do. Maybe you can Email fancylad after I permaban you, and make an appeal. Maybe he`ll reinstate your account. Probably not.

    We can do without people like you fattpill. Forget the nicey-nicey post earlier, (I was genuinely trying to be nice, you then raped it). If you`re a homophobic a*shole then you have no place here.

    Dancing on the fault-line, Fattpill. You`re welcome to stay if you drop the bullsh*t. And yes, that`s an official warning.
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 4:21 am
    first off for a 23 year old man I have to say your intelligence is astounding. If you learned about the word of God you could change the world for God.
    Instead of arguing about that second sentence I think I`ll just take it as the compliment you intended and say thanks :)

    Check out Ravi Zacharias he is Indian that is from Scotland.
    I`ve heard the name, but I don`t know much about him. From what I gather he`s Canadian, not Scottish though, isn`t he?

    I know you see this as if, If someone knows the choice you are going to make then there is 0% chance of you making the other decision.
    Exactly. To me, the maths speaks for itself. If the outcome of a choice is known with certainty, which is the case with omniscience, then alternatives become impossible.
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 4:29 am
    go away gay dude
    WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT FROM A BI-SEXUAL DUDE
    gay boy
    ... come on man, don`t make me pull back and put my mod hat on JUST when I thought we might be getting somewhere in this discussion.

    That sort of stuff is way, way out of line, aside from being massively counterproductive to your arguments.
  • Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 10:24 am
    yeah fattpill disappeared :D
  • Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 10:32 am
    Clearly I was wrong about us getting anywhere. Never mind.
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 2:46 pm
    Huh... I kind of forgot about this for a while...

    Now that I come back, it seems Fatty disappeared.

    Though not with his usual nonsensical retaliation based on Ad Hominem and petty insults.

    From what I gather, he must have checked my profile and saw that I`m bi?

    I openly admit to being a hedonist. I look out for myself and try to make me happy at all times. That has, in the past, meant non-exclusivity in my sexual orientation. (That said, I avoid harming others for my own gain, so it`s not like it hurts anyone.)

    That said, sexual orientation has nothing to do with intelligence or the validity of my comparison, and any attempt to link the two shows a level of bigotry and outright ignorance that I rarely see outside the most backwoods regions of America...

    I think I understand how he met god now...

    He tripped out on so many drugs, he saw god and killed half his brain cells in one go, lol.

    I`m probably gonna stay gone
  • Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 2:57 pm
    Actually, before I go... Is it possible for the mods to send me a copy of what Fatty wrote?

    Davy, you`ve sent me e-mails before. Is there some great database where deleted posts can be retrieved so I could see them?

    It`s bugging me, I just wanna see it in his own words...
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 5:15 pm
    vv Sorry Altaru, once they`re deleted they`re gone, there`s no backup. I banhammer`d him, but I didn`t delete his posts, someone else must have. Generally speaking I always leave posts after a ban (unless it`s porn pics or spam) - I think it keeps things clean and leaves an "audit trail" so other users can read for themselves why a particular user was banned.

    He did say things such as "go away gay dude...
    WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT FROM A BI-SEXUAL DUDE...
    gay boy" as quoted below, I gave him a warning for hate speech/personal attack, and then he went on a 4-post rant on how bisexuality and homosexuality was a sick perversion/mental disorder, you`re no better than a pedophile, etc etc.

    Unfortunately fattpill shows once again that the most evangelical, misty-eyed, love-filled christfags are usually the very same ones who are the most disgustingly hate-filled bigots. Can`t say I was surprised.
  • Profile photo of UserIDTaken9
    UserIDTaken9 Male 18-29
    52 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 10:27 pm
    Did you really just ban a guy for that and then call him a christfag? Well, as long as we`ve got rid of all the people who like to use slurs to pass judgment on entire groups...
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    March 28, 2011 at 11:46 pm
    vv UserIDTaken9, christfag is not the same thing as Christian, at least when I use it. Westboro Baptist Church are christfags. Normal and rational Christians (i.e., not hate-filled bigots) are Christians.
  • Profile photo of ericka225
    ericka225 Female 18-29
    219 posts
    March 30, 2011 at 9:42 pm
    Um 1. just because a person prays doesn`t mean they give up and stop trying to fix the solution.
    2. Sometimes when there is nothing else you can do to fix a solution like o say when you have cancer..praying is the last thing someone can do and it gives them some hope..3. whose to say that praying doesn`t fix or helps it get fixed just because you "think" it was all you doesn`t mean that was all that happened there. It all comes down to what you believe or not believe.. but there ya go making a broad assumption on an opinion.. hmm :P
  • Profile photo of kdawg646
    kdawg646 Male 18-29
    5 posts
    April 6, 2011 at 2:14 pm
    so many people misinterpret this, but now that i think about, prayer didn`t fix my truck, didn`t fix the water heater, or the dryer. the way i see it is prayer is not a practical choice
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