Canada Vs. USA: Suicide Edition!

Submitted by: 5cats 6 years ago in
http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2011/02/us-vs-canada-suicide-edition.html

Hey Canada, we"re falling behind! Features some truth about ""gun control"" as a bonus!
There are 90 comments:
Male 229
well another factor to take into is that america is 10 times freaking bigger than canada
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Male 253
@Musuko42
But you don`t have Oakland!
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Male 2,850
@MeGrendel

From your figures:

UK`s contact crime rate: 89% higher.
UK`s burglary crime rate: 50% higher.
UK`s auto thefts crime rate: 19% higher.

USA`s murder rate: 285% higher!

I`ll take my slightly higher rate of crimes that don`t KILL me, rather than your catastrophically higher murder rate, thank you very much.
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Female 1,070
It`s not surprising at all that there are more suicides in the US with the use of firearms because they`re easy to get to. I mean if someone`s serious about killing themselves, they`d go for the easiest way possible (firearms), but if that`s not an option it`s still no going to discourage someone who`s serious.

What I did learn though was that the suicide rate in both countries are the same. That I actually did not know.
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Male 8,406
Musuko42-"Who`s spinning."

You are. Your entire post was `This data does not support my position so we must ask every concievable question about the data.`

Other facts: % of people experiencing (by country)
Contact Crime: UK 3.6% - US 1.9%
Burglary: UK 3.9% - US 2.6%
Auto Thefts: UK 2.5% - US 2.1%

So, crime itself is not necessarily less in the UK. Granted, murders are higher in the United States with a rate of 5.0 per 100K (UK`s is 1.3), which is high enough to put the US in the top 100 countries (not the top 10, 25 or even 50, though).
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Male 2,850
@MeGrendel

Who`s spinning? I haven`t made any statements regarding the figures being wrong, or tried to twist them in any way whatsoever. In fact, I don`t think you can even deduce my views on this matter based on what I`ve said.

All I`ve done is give examples of the questions that should be asked, without which the figures you give mean nothing.
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Male 2,402
Those who say this study is flawed are making futile charges. These statistics come for the USCDC. Highly skilled in studies. I seriously doubt its remotely flawed.
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Male 5,413
Well....would you look at that.
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Male 8,406
@Musuko42.

Facts not going you way...spin spin spin.


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Male 2,850
@MeGrendel

"In 2009 the UK had 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people. In the same year the US had 429."

How many of those 2,034 violent crimes led to a death?

How many of those 429 violent crimes led to a death?

How are the crimes recorded? Are there certain actions that would be recorded as a violent crime in one country, but not in another? Were the figures adjusted for any difference in recording?

A violent crime can range from a simple push against someone (even an attempted push, in fact), all the way up to murder. The simple numbers mean very little unless you break it down into the actual crimes.
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Male 406
@ P-hocto: Flawed? Why, because it doesn`t take into account guessing what the figures would be if...? As long as the numbers are accurate (not made up), the study isn`t flawed at all.
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Male 8,406
boNeymiZz-"if i were gonna kill myself... i`d be awesome at it.... shotgun to the DICK!"

Doctor: "You`re in luck, it`s just a flesh wound."

gorgack2000-"And funnily enough we have 27 times less gun crime than the states. "

But does that equate to less crime? Not so much.

Official crime figures show the UK has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world`s most dangerous countries. In 2009 the UK had 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people. In the same year the US had 429. We didn`t even make the top ten.

And before you aske, these numbers came from reports by the European Commission and United Nations.
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Male 35
This study is flawed. In the report they make the case that there is little difference in suicide rate between the two countries, gun control or not.

BUT, what`s to say that the suicide rate in the US wouldn`t be lower if gun control was in place, (or that rates in canada would be higher if it wasn`t in place) thus changing the figures that their conclusion was made on?

Personally I don`t think it would make much difference to the figures, if someone wants to kill themselves they`ll find a way! However, the fact that their conclusion has not been reached through undeniable scientific methods makes their point somewhat invalid.
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Male 2,402
@phoneybone
Comparing the two nations does make sense. Both share the same borders. Have basically a high mixture of different ethnic groups. Similar democratic political and capitalistic systems. Basic same ratio of low income, middle income, and high income classes. A very good baseline to preform such a statistical survey.
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Female 3,001
i wasn`t aware we banned fire arms so that you couldn`t kill yourself, i thought it had more to do with the killing of other people.
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Male 1,744
my attempt:
a) comparing only two nations does not make for a very good statistical comparison, let`s include some more countries, preferable either all post-industrailized to keep an even base line (wouldn`t want to compare advanced to 3rd world, that`d be silly) BUT
b) if someone wants to kill themselves, they`ll kill themsevles. Jump off a bridge, hanging, whatever, there`s ways to do it, all effective.
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Male 359
SarahofBorg as a woman you of all people SHOULD own a gun.


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Male 307
What exactly is the point of this with gun control? I can`t recall any significant promotional push that we need tighter gun control to lower the number of suicides in the US - hell, if you are going to commit suicide, a gun is probably the way to go (considering the agony of other methods).

I believe that the US needs a revamp of gun laws - not for the shooter`s sake, but for everyone elses. Things such as mental evaluations, and required safety classes and limitations on what is available publicly... but for suicides? Give me a break!
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Male 275
Go USA for creativity at least with over 50% other.
Glass half full.
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Male 260
Greenbasterd - "GUN CONTROL DOES NOTHING FO RTHIS COUNTRY EXCEPT GIVE THE GUNS TO CRIMINALS" (referring to canada)

pretty damn good way to distinguish between bad guys and good guys though right? you see a guy wavin a gun around he must be a bad guy so you just book it and wait for a mountie to lasso him. also i think people should start noting the difference between bunny rabbit/harmless deer hunting guns and human hunting guns
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Female 3,562
Yes it does Burton. It`s pretty obvious to me, granted they took a passive-aggressive tone.
"they could quite legitimately be considered to be monsters, as they would appear to be very much in favor of seeing thousands more people hang or poison themselves when committing suicide"

So I`m a monster because I believe in gun control because I`m tired of hearing about 12 year old kids shooting up high schools with machine guns. I`M the monster. And yet it goes on:

"But then, they`ve apparently made other choices.
Actually caring about people just doesn`t seem to be among those choices. "

I don`t care about people because I believe in gun control. I would call that pretty damn blatant.
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Male 15,510
Like DUH
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Male 802
Not surprising, people use whatever tool they have access to. For example in Japan (with one of the highest suicide rates in the world) it is common to commit suicide by jumping in front of a train or by jumping from a tall building. These are simply just very easily accessible tools in this area.
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Male 1,540
I was getting ready to point out that Canada has far less people, making the chart inaccurate, but then it continued and I was happy.
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Male 6,060
To Guardin Gnome,
What a great idea! There could be competitions and judging and prizes could be given to the surviving family members! It would be better than Jersey Shore, don`t you think? Or am I being a little to non-P.C.?
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Female 185
Read the whole thing before you comment. Most of your comments don`t even make sense because you glanced at the first chart and didn`t read anything. The reason the first chart is so different is because of the population. People will kill themselves with whatever. Canada doesn`t have guns, so they use suffocation. Getting rid of guns won`t solve anything.
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Male 8,302
Ahhh, now if it was only 100,000 per 100,000 head of population, the rest of the world could rejoice.
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Male 7
The only thing i`m getting from this is that Canada needs better rope control.
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Male 616
It just means that we`re better shots.
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Male 25,417
Could it be that life in America is harder
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Male 1,116
I know some people who would probably get depressed and kill themselves if their guns were taken away.
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Male 69
"Total bollocks. If you want to kill yourself, you`ve usually already planned it through meticulously. Most people don`t suddenly decide to end their lives on a whim; it`s a lengthy span of time in which things add up and weigh on you until you decide you just can`t take it anymore."

Most thoughts on suicide are a passing moment thing, however it is true some people are utterly depressed and will plan it out.

Anyways whatever just a thought i felt like sharing.
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Male 4,680
Here in the UK we have very effective gun control.

And funnily enough we have 27 times less gun crime than the states.

Just saying.
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Male 815
Really Sarah, that`s what it BLATANTLY says about all person included in the group "people who want to control `guns`". That is quite a deduction.
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Male 2,893
Ohhhhhhhh, we should ban ropes and knives and breakfast cereal and pencils and books and computers and lighters and cars and water because you can hurt yourself with them!!!
Kill yourself any way you want, just don`t ruin it for the rest of us.
I recommend a tall building, that way you can do a flip and impress all of your friends!!
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Female 3,562
I like how it seems to make the argument that people who argue for gun control want people to hang themselves. It blatantly says that people who want gun control DON`T care about people. It`s like it`s trying to say that gun control EQUALS suicide. Wow.
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Female 1,427
"I don`t really agree with this, if somebody is thinking irrationally and thinking about suicide the will be more likely to do so if there are the means to immediatly do so (ie. if guns are available). On the other hand if they have to plan out a way to kill themselves, they will have more time to think over there actions and possibly exit that state of mind and not follow though."

Total bollocks. If you want to kill yourself, you`ve usually already planned it through meticulously. Most people don`t suddenly decide to end their lives on a whim; it`s a lengthy span of time in which things add up and weigh on you until you decide you just can`t take it anymore.

If people didn`t plan poo like this, there`d be no "notes," no elaborate jumps, etc.
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Male 1,341
Chimmeychang, that sounds like it would make an excellent public service announcement.
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Male 69
I don`t really agree with this, if somebody is thinking irrationally and thinking about suicide the will be more likely to do so if there are the means to immediatly do so (ie. if guns are available). On the other hand if they have to plan out a way to kill themselves, they will have more time to think over there actions and possibly exit that state of mind and not follow though.
Now Firearms isn`t the only form of suicide that is immediatly available, but definatly one that most people would immediatly think of and is also one of the quickest ways to commit suicide.
anyways I think that if gun laws were not availale in Canada the suicide rate would actually be higher. Considering Im Canadian, thats kinda sad
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Male 684
also, if you are going to kill yourself, hanging makes the least mess for others to clean up assuming you fast and use a laxative. So be considerate of others when offing yourself, people already hate you, why make them hate you more.
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Male 311
@Musuko42

Ya, if I had to live in Canada I`d probably be more likely to kill myself too
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Male 296
TheSpoon, learn to read.

Those are the average suicides per 100,000 from 2000-2007. Not just the data from 2007.

Sigh..
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Male 2,033
The entire "other" category of the canadian chart is suicide by kicking a polar bear in the nuts while skating home to your igloo after having a pancake breakfast.


True story.
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Male 604
NOW LET`S DO HOMICIDES!
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Male 2,850
@greenbasterd

"gun control???? has nothing to do with.. idiots.. per capita the suicide rate is the same!!!!!! look at the numbers you asshats.."

For all you know, the suicide rate in Canada could have been much higher were it not for the gun control: the assumption that Canadians and Americans are roughly equally likely to kill themselves when all else is equal is just that...an assumption.

It`s a pretty reasonable assumption...but still just an assumption.

You could look at these results and assume, quite equally, that "Canadians are so suicide-prone that it takes rigorous gun control in order to bring their suicide rate down to be on a par with America`s rate".

Neither assumption is backed by fact (in this report).

Besides, I thought Canadians had a higher rate of gun ownership than Americans.
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Female 9,557
"if i were gonna kill myself... i`d be awesome at it.... shotgun to the DICK!"

Or you just got a cheaper form of a sex change.
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Male 211
the graph that shows suicides per 100,000 shows that the US has 11.5 and Canada has 11.0... the other way around to what is said in the acticle
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Male 288
stupid
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Male 1,678
The only truth about gun control here is that the ability to own a gun doesn`t make you suicidal, but it does make it easier for you to kill yourself if you are.
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Male 2,376
gun control???? has nothing to do with.. idiots.. per capita the suicide rate is the same!!!!!! look at the numbers you asshats..

GUN CONTROL DOES NOTHING FO RTHIS COUNTRY EXCEPT GIVE THE GUNS TO CRIMINALS
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Male 1,548
@boNeymiZz
I am confused as to why you think dying without a dick is "awesome".
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Male 237
if i were gonna kill myself... i`d be awesome at it.... shotgun to the DICK!
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Male 39,524

If you`re gonna suicide, you should be polite about it.

I mean, someone has to find your body. Probably a family member. So don`t blow your brains out... The MESS!

And remember, the first thing your body does at death is "release". All that urine and poo is gonna really smell so be sure to get a high colonic before kicking your bucket.

I would say sleeping pills are the best way. You can pose your body nicely. Hanging is slow and if you change your mind it kinda sucks. Also, your spouse seeing you swinging from the chandelier might leave them with a negative image of you.

Also, would a note kill you? {pun} Explain why so those you leave behind aren`t wasting time blaming themselves.
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Male 2,229
Bah, that had little to with suicide, and everything to do with the worn out arguments of fore and against gun control.
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Male 356
"In the worst case interpretation, they could quite legitimately be considered to be monsters, as they would appear to be very much in favor of seeing thousands more people hang or poison themselves when committing suicide, which would be the nearly inevitable outcome of the restrictions they seek to impose upon others. "

BEHOLD THE GODLY LOGIC.
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Male 3,076
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Male 734
So is it more patriotic for me to hang myself than shoot myself?
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Male 684
@McFudge...did you happen to scroll down a bit, like 3 inches to the part where they listed the rate per capita?Why are you presenting an argument to information already presented, then calling people idiots?The article clearly states that the U.S had a suicide rate of 11 per 100,000 and Canada had a rate of 11.5 per 100,000. Please read more next time before trying to convince people of information they already have. I realise i said the same thing twice, but i am told redundancy is important for people like you:)
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Male 1,122
This is depressing. I think I`ll go shoot myself....I mean hang. Definitely hang.
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Male 10,855
[quote]you clearly are an idiot[/quote]



Says the man who can`t even make a logical rebuttal.
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Male 537
"Musuko42"

Wow... really. Congratulations, on your fantastic trolling attempt.
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Female 7,981
Why is suicide by shooting much nicer than hanging or overdose? If you do them right they may be equal - who knows how death by o/D feels, but all could be nasty if they are done wrong.
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Male 437
"33 million people has less suicidal people than 308 million people. Per 100,000 people, there are still going to be more suicides"

Not sure what you`re trying to say here, but if you have a 10 suicides for 1000 people, and 20 suicides for 2000, both groups have 1 suicide for every 100 people. The second group does not have a statistically higher suicide rate in that scenario, even though there are more suicides.

"Learn to logistics"

Huh?
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Male 2,850
@mcfudge

*pats you on the head*

You really shouldn`t try to think about things. It`s obviously distressing for you.

It`s adorable that you think you know what you`re talking about.
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Male 1,021
We`re #1
We`re #1
We`re #1!
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Male 537
"Musuko42", you clearly are an idiot.

33 million people has less suicidal people than 308 million people. Per 100,000 people, there are still going to be more suicides, especially ff the information is skewed and taken at face value. Understand? Or do you want me to dumb it down even more?

you have a country with a high population, then you have a country with a low population... the country with a high population has more suicides, you fcking idiot. Do you really think they are systematically analyzing the data? No, they are interpreting 100,000 as raw data.

Learn to logistics dumb poo.

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Male 3,745
so does the mean that americans are a bunch of spineless bitches for not wanting to die more slower agonizing deaths?
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Female 95
I see "other" as "more creative"...so I am sad that Canada is more creative in offing themselves lol. Come on America! JK, I do not support suicide you emos.
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Male 17,512
Maybe Canada should look into banning rope ownership as well.
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Male 85
Let me guess some democrat is squirming in their seat to say "see there is another reason why the us should ban firearms" well then maybe Canads should ban rope, pillow cases, plastic bags (all kinds), and while we are at it....water too!
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Male 2,850
@mcfudge

You clearly misunderstood the "suicides per 100,000 population" part.

Please escort yourself out. Remember, when the door says "PUSH", you need to make it swing AWAY from you.

*wince* Oh...you got that wrong too. Did that hurt? I`ll call an ambulance.

I think they can treat "too stupid to live" these days.
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Male 2,850
@IshiiDaFishy

I would think jumping is an awful way to kill yourself...

...what if you changed your mind halfway to the ground? :P
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Male 537
Population of canada: 33 million
Population of the USA: 308 million.

That`s a large gap, don`t ya think?

When you have more people in a country, you have more suicidal people in a country.
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Male 2,850
From the report:

"Consequently, we find that the restrictions that a nation might place on gun ownership by its citizens very likely do little or nothing to affect the number of suicides that take place within the nation."

While this is a reasonable conclusion, and likely accurate, it is worrying that they would make such a bold statement based on simple correlation.

For example: Canada`s suicide rate might otherwise be higher if it weren`t for the gun control, and is only on a par with America`s because the laws reduce the total number, by cutting the gun-related ones.

As I said before, their conclusion seems sound, but they shouldn`t have jumped to it.
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Male 1,587
rammo34- unless you have a very old car that wouldn`t work. With emission standards the way they are you would at worst probably fall asleep.

I don`t think I could ever commit suicide.
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Male 605
Dersn`t surprise me that much. Levels of suicide in rural areas, of which Canada has a lot of, are often very high.
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Male 10,855
[quote">I don`t think too many people `accidentally` hang themselves.[/quote">

They can sure as hell accidently shoot themselves
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Male 66
Gee, that`s a strawman argument at best. Either side of the gun control debate making any claims regarding suicide in service to their point are really dead wrong.
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Female 728
@rammo34: I don`t think I would consider suffocation a painless way to go. I`d almost rather die of hanging because, even though that too is sometimes death by suffocation, it`s a lot faster than suffocation by competitive inhibition of hemoglobin.
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Male 10,855
What really matters is per capita comparison. Since there`s not even a correlation there`s no need for gun control. Hell even my state has considered lifting its concealed gun ban at public universities.
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Female 728
I`m all for the right to bear arms, but this is just a little bit too obvious in its bias. First off, the difference in suicide rate is not significant, meaning that the written part should not even mention the fact that Canada`s average is slightly higher.

Second, the amount of data is deplorable. Negatively biased readers could easily assume that the presenter is cherry-picking data for a range of years that favors his/her position.

Finally, the emotionally-laden writing toward the end destroys any credibility the article may have had as a non-biased source.

The best way to present such data is to present the hard facts and talk about possible correlations. You might be able to sway opponents of your argument in that manner. By using emotional rhetoric, you are only preaching to the choir and annoying your opponents.
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Male 1,116
I`d just leave the car running in the garage. Seems like that would be the most painless way to go.
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Male 773
If I were ever to kill myself, I`d probably choose to jump. Those fleeting seconds of freefall, with the wind rushing past, the weightlessness of it all,I dunno, it`d just seems so...soothing.
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Male 773
`If it`s accidental self-inflicted injury is it still suicide then?`

I don`t think too many people `accidentally` hang themselves.
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Male 437
Guns don`t kill people, they just make it easier for people to kill people. I, for one, would choose a bullet over hanging 100% of the time.
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Male 437
"ROFL If I handed this into my Political Statistics professor I would get a C at best."

No, you would get an F, because that would be plagiarism.
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Male 39,524
[quote]the U.S. and Canada would appear to be very similar to one another where deaths caused by self-inflicted injuries are concerned[/quote]

If it`s accidental self-inflicted injury is it still suicide then? I think "suicide" has to have the intent-to-kill factor otherwise it`s just an accidental death.
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Male 252
Stupid
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Male 518
ROFL If I handed this into my Political Statistics professor I would get a C at best.
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Male 40,269
Link: Canada Vs. USA: Suicide Edition! [Rate Link] - Hey Canada, we`re falling behind! Features some truth about ``gun control`` as a bonus!
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