Rockin' in the free world since 2005.

[Total: 27    Average: 3.8/5]
233 Comments - View/Add
Hits: 35552
Rating: 3.8
Category:
Date: 01/30/11 09:09 AM

233 Responses to This 12-Year-Old Will Be Tried As An Adult

  1. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36191 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:11 am
    Link: This 12-Year-Old Will Be Tried As An Adult - Is this kid too young or is justice being served? What he did was pretty brutal. Your call, I-A-B.
  2. Profile photo of ScottSerious
    ScottSerious Male 18-29
    5316 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:17 am
    so if he didn`t kill her, then why even try him as a juvenile
  3. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:23 am
    While it`s possible for a 12 y.o to have the intelligence of an 18 y.o, they still lack the emotional and psychological maturity. As heinous as this crime is, he should be tried as a juvenile.
  4. Profile photo of furryblob
    furryblob Male 18-29
    574 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:23 am
    How`s that second amendment working out for ya?
  5. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1794 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:24 am
    Too young... I think the women at the end of the video did it...
  6. Profile photo of hatface
    hatface Male 18-29
    605 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:24 am
    "little boy, big crime" what a cap headline. Also, it hasn`t been proved he did anything, yet. All we know if what the media has reported. And it could well be that they did not get the full information or story.
  7. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3441 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:25 am
    I learned how to shoot under my father`s instruction when I was five years old with a single shot .22 cal. rifle. He was an ex Airborne Ranger and was very strict in explaining and making me and my brothers follow certain safety rules. I was hunting woodchucks and squirrels by myself when I turned nine. I believe this kid should sit on death row until he turns eighteen and then executed. He knew what a shotgun would do and he has to be made accountable.
  8. Profile photo of kralmir
    kralmir Male 18-29
    351 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:25 am
    end a life, lose your life. makes sense to me.
  9. Profile photo of hyeonkim0805
    hyeonkim0805 Male 18-29
    667 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:30 am
    This kid is one evil mtherfcker. 12 years old? Wuts that middle school? He knew exactly what he was shooting at and that a shotgun would kill her and the baby. This kid is the "The Omen" come to life.
  10. Profile photo of TenaciousB
    TenaciousB Male 18-29
    46 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:36 am
    He should be strapped down to a chair with a shotgun pointed at his face and a trigger to go off at a random time.
  11. Profile photo of TopperHey
    TopperHey Male 18-29
    1930 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:37 am
    Yey, guns.
  12. Profile photo of Skeezer1991
    Skeezer1991 Male 18-29
    722 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:37 am
    He should just get manslaughter.
  13. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:46 am
    This is sad for everyone involved. Where did he get the gun anyway? How come it wasn`t locked away safely?
    The boy should be in big trouble, sure. But so should the person who was careless enough to let a gun get into the hands of a 11 year old.
  14. Profile photo of HoorayForJay
    HoorayForJay Male 18-29
    36 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:57 am
    All you haters seem to miss the part where they said: "brown said he didn`t shoot her, and the only witness was an 8 year old girl who changed her story"

    I`m not saying he`s innocent, but I`d be a bit more analytical first rather than suggest how he should be punished.
  15. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:57 am
    There is a reason we try children in a different way and with different penalties to adults. If you are a child, you should be tried as a child- for everything. Quite often children are tried as adults to appease the public.
  16. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:58 am
    Haha! America sucks.

    ... I could say something like how unfortunate it is for the woman and her baby, but I don`t feel like these people deserve my sympathy.
  17. Profile photo of ShadowVamp
    ShadowVamp Female 18-29
    362 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:05 am
    @HorrayForJay: That could easily have been spun, though. We don`t know how drastically the story was changed. Did the new version sound completely different, or did the little girl add some small detail she hadn`t remembered the first time?
  18. Profile photo of NoArms5534
    NoArms5534 Male 18-29
    196 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:06 am
    Are you stupid, TopperHey? Would it be better if the woman was stabbed to death? There are a million ways to kill someone, getting rid of guns would cause more problems than you could possibly understand. Oh wait, you`re from Europe, you don`t get it.
  19. Profile photo of Ska_Machine
    Ska_Machine Male 13-17
    153 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:08 am
    As American pro-gun people would say "well if the 8-year old witness had a gun, she could`ve stopped this whole thing from happening."
    American laws are a joke.
  20. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:10 am
    Sad, just sad. There`s no easy solution to a 12 year-old murderer.
  21. Profile photo of CoyoteKing
    CoyoteKing Male 18-29
    2988 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
    The lady`s comment at the end makes me sick. It seems she was vengence, not justice.
  22. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
    DixxyRarr said: ". Where did he get the gun anyway? How come it wasn`t locked away safely?
    The boy should be in big trouble, sure. But so should the person who was careless enough to let a gun get into the hands of a 11 year old."

    You are absolutely correct. There was a police officer here in Orlando that was killed with a stolen gun. Had the original owner been responsible enough to keep his weapon secured, that cop would be alive today.
  23. Profile photo of sidewyz8
    sidewyz8 Female 18-29
    843 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:20 am
    The dad did it and blamed his son and told the little girl to agree or he`d get her too o_O
  24. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36191 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:21 am
    @ the people who say Try Him As An Adult...

    He`s 12 now, 11 yo when he commited the crime {allegedly}.

    So you`re saying an 11 year old has the faculties to understand the repurcussions of life and death choices. Then if follows that 11 year olds have the faculties to make lesser choices.

    11 year olds should be allowed to buy and use alcohol and tobacco.
    11 year olds should be allowed to vote and serve in the mmilitary.
    11 year olds should be allowed to drive and enter into any type of contract.
    Age of sexual consent should be dropped to 11 also.

    No? You don`t think a little kid who probably hasn`t hit puberty yet could make those choices and fully understand the consequences?

    Yeah, it sucks when children do rotten stuff but they are still children, not adults.
  25. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:24 am
    Noarms5534 said: "Are you stupid, TopperHey? Would it be better if the woman was stabbed to death? There are a million ways to kill someone, getting rid of guns would cause more problems than you could possibly understand. Oh wait, you`re from Europe, you don`t get it."

    Let me ask you something, mouth-breather. How many cops have been shot to death in Europe this month. I await your reply, because I can tell you that 14 police officers here in the states in just this month alone. Criminals get access to these guns by stealing them from people who keep them in their wife`s panty drawer instead of a safe or gun locker. IMO, they have blood on their hands as well.
  26. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:26 am
    We shouldn`t discern between juvenile and adult crimes if it makes no difference anyway.
  27. Profile photo of sinisterspid
    sinisterspid Female 18-29
    121 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:28 am
    sure he`s 12 but he still shot a pregnant woman, whether or not he`s able to understand the gravity of situation right now is irrelevant. I`m sure by the time he`s old enough he`ll probably think he belongs in prison to.
  28. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:34 am
    Commit the crime, do the time. Regardless of age.
  29. Profile photo of james20
    james20 Male 13-17
    154 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:36 am
    He`s gonna get so ass raped in jail
  30. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:37 am
    @gerry1of1

    try watching the full video before you make another dumb assumption.
  31. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:39 am
    do america have child prisons? wonder how he will be treated by the inmates,

    now thats a documentary i would like to watch somewhere in the near future
  32. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36191 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:41 am
    tedgp

    The question is "should a 12 year old be tried as an adult"

    try to keep up
  33. Profile photo of mykunter
    mykunter Male 40-49
    2424 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:42 am
    Life in prison? Hell no, let`s put that 12 year old in the electric chair! Imagine that.
    No, he should not be tried as an adult.
  34. Profile photo of Volsunga
    Volsunga Male 18-29
    1548 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:45 am
    @jtrebowski
    So victims of theft are responsible for another person murdering someone? Your moral compass is seriously f*cked up. Please fix that so you aren`t considered a sociopath.

    @Gerry1of1
    11 years old is old enough to understand that if you shoot something, it dies. This was an execution, completely in cold blood, in a calculated manner. An adult trial is reasonable to consider. If you`re really worried about this kid`s welfare, it sounds like the defense has a fair case, and they`d have better chance of acquitting him in an adult trial.
  35. Profile photo of Mitchster
    Mitchster Male 18-29
    544 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:48 am
    It`s funny because we`ve all been conditioned to assume guilt, even though the kid`s innocent until proven otherwise.
  36. Profile photo of MauserTM
    MauserTM Male 18-29
    1222 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:49 am
    I think the father should be on jail for providing the gun, and the kid with treatment.
  37. Profile photo of zombieland
    zombieland Male 18-29
    418 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:53 am
    "should he be tried as an adult?"
    "is he an adult?"
    "no"
    ....this is stupid.
  38. Profile photo of kralmir
    kralmir Male 18-29
    351 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:53 am
    "You are absolutely correct. There was a police officer here in Orlando that was killed with a stolen gun. Had the original owner been responsible enough to keep his weapon secured, that cop would be alive today."


    because it`s not possible for the killer to get a gun? or... you know.... break in at night and slit the officers throat. just one of about a milion .3 ways a HUMAN CAN KILL A HUMAN. gun or no gun, killers will kill.

    even a 12year old can easily enough kill without a gun if he wants to.
  39. Profile photo of Norris
    Norris Male 18-29
    1011 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:55 am
    to have separate laws for ages is dumb imo..its called ageism. You do something you get the same punishment.

    If he were black and got a heavier sentence because of that fact people would be enraged.
  40. Profile photo of rbt_food
    rbt_food Male 18-29
    322 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:55 am
    i`m completely surprised at the number of people saying to try him as an adult.
    the kid was eleven when he allegedly committed the crime. and with an unreliable witness, he should be tried as a juvenile.
  41. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3275 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:55 am
    Apparently, the gun was not left around for him to pick up. It was HIS gun. A shotgun designed specifically for use by "youth." Also, the boy told his cousin that he wanted to kill the lady, who was his father`s girlfriend.

    I say that he should be locked up until 18, at the least, and then maybe re-assess from there. If he seems remorseful, and like he knows not to do it again, release him. If he seems a threat to society, keep him in.
  42. Profile photo of darkgear6
    darkgear6 Male 70 & Over
    1378 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:59 am
    DOUBLE KILL
  43. Profile photo of whatevs
    whatevs Female 13-17
    126 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:00 am
    i think we should wait to make this judgement until he`s actually been proven guilty. to be honest i dont think we`re really given enough information to make up our minds about this. regardless of the boy`s age, murder is a very serious conviction and life in prison is a very serious penalty.
  44. Profile photo of Volsunga
    Volsunga Male 18-29
    1548 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:10 am
    @whatevs
    You don`t seem to understand what "tried as an adult" means. It`s a TRIAL to find if he`s guilty or not. Right now (before the trial) we have about the same information as both the judge and jury, who decide what class of trial it will be. Whether he is guilty or not is irrelevant to the type of trial to be done.
  45. Profile photo of Firebee
    Firebee Female 18-29
    55 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:11 am
    He was 11 years old, 11 year olds aren`t idiots, he knew what he was doing. (That is, if he actually did it)
  46. Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:11 am
    Rick, before you go hating. Just because a gun is designed for a youth to shoot it(which is done for reasons of safety), and is "his" doesn`t mean he should be able to hang it over his bunk bed with a bandolier of shells.

    It still should have been kept from him. He should not have had access to both the gun and the ammunition unsupervised at any time. The adult chooses when you go shoot guns, not the child.

    What do you tell the woman`s family when you `re-assess` him, "Oh well, he`s really sorry and he knows now it was bad, so we are going to let him go!"

    No matter what you do here lives are ruined, including two that had barely started. The negligence is in the person who unwisely stored the firearms and ammunition. (With the exception being in cases where the access is gained unlawfully through the act of the minor)

    The poor dad. He`s lost everything, and he`s probably the one who let the kid have a gun.
  47. Profile photo of WeePee
    WeePee Male 18-29
    612 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:11 am
    there are enough video games, violent TV, movies, ECT to prove that this kid knows what happens when you shoot someone with a shotgun. and if he is able to understand the consequences of his actions theres no reason he should not be tried as an adult.
  48. Profile photo of T-Marley
    T-Marley Male 70 & Over
    602 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:18 am
    Weepee, when I shoot someone in Call of Duty they respawn in a few seconds. When I shoot someone in GTA an ambulance comes by and fixes them right up.

    When I shoot my buddy with toy guns, it doesn`t hurt him. In the movies, a gun rarely hits, never runs out of bullets, and when it does hit wounds someone so that I can catch them and get a witty one liner from it...

    If you are looking at popular media and video games to teach firearm safety, we have a real problem here.
  49. Profile photo of SKINNERNSC
    SKINNERNSC Male 30-39
    359 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:20 am
    I say let CSI sort em out...
  50. Profile photo of redser99
    redser99 Male 30-39
    114 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:21 am
    The kid killed two people, not one...she was pregnant. If the kid had knowledge of what he was doing as well as the consequences of his actions then I`d think he`s an adult. There`s got to be undisclosed reasons that would come out during the hearings that support the decision. It`s not like this is the very 1st incident of murder by a minor in the history of the state.
  51. Profile photo of Floupe
    Floupe Male 13-17
    203 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:22 am
    @ T-marley
    Also,when cops come after You in gta, you punch in a cheat and your off the hook.
  52. Profile photo of FeelTheRide
    FeelTheRide Female 18-29
    515 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:31 am
    Well, the judge decided that he should be tried as an adult back in March of last year.
  53. Profile photo of noxert323
    noxert323 Male 18-29
    226 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:34 am
    @Firebee
    I`ll agree, I don`t think that you need to be 18 to think, guns are loud.. I should be quiet.

    regardless he was 11
    11
    11
    11
    11
    11
    that`s 7 years away.
    TEH DRAT
  54. Profile photo of cbax819
    cbax819 Female 40-49
    21 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:35 am
    IF he didn`t "do it" then who did? The Father?? Would depend greatly on the people present at the time of the shooting. Not hearing much info on this little snippet here...
  55. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:39 am
    Age is irrelevant. Criminals deserve to pay for what they do.
  56. Profile photo of Matholameu
    Matholameu Male 70 & Over
    493 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:42 am
    Woah. Man, why does that stuff happen down there? Holy poo U.S.A! You gotta settle down!
  57. Profile photo of zombieland
    zombieland Male 18-29
    418 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:42 am
    How can any sane human being believe that an 11 year old should be tried as an Adult????
    11 is not an adult, F*uck!

    And you cannot say age isn`t relevant "criminals are criminals" if a 5 year old reached over and pulled the handbrake in a car and caused an fatal accident. its not that same as if a 25 year old did it. AGE IS RELEVENT
  58. Profile photo of thomas27pa
    thomas27pa Male 18-29
    25 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:45 am
    damn im from pennsylvania and didnt hear a word about this
  59. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:45 am
    There are too many people on earth. Kill the boy and lets move along.
  60. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:52 am
    this kid need help, if he did it. he don`t need to be in prison his whole dratin life! everybody need a chanse, and prison is not the place to be if your mind is drated up!
  61. Profile photo of Mr_Pedo_Bear
    Mr_Pedo_Bear Male 70 & Over
    997 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:54 am
    Please be Texas, please be Texas, Please be Texas.... Pennsylvania ah drat.

    Some things aren`t done by age for obvious reasons. Kid can understand right and wrong between stealing but not understand full concept yet. Murder however and firearms from a young age playing cowboy indians, computer games, tv whatever you get an impression guns knives etc are dangerous. Most places including the states recognise you don`t turn 18 (or 21 with drinking for instance) and suddenly become fully and morally responsible. Murder I think it totally appropriate to take responsibility and be deemed adult from the age of 9. Therefore have no problem with him being trailed as an adult.
  62. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36191 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:55 am
    maybe he`s not a cold blooded animal

    maybe it`s just a case of impulse control issues

    can`t we all just hug now and stop fighting?
  63. Profile photo of beternal
    beternal Male 18-29
    2589 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:59 am
    well, if he gets tried as a juvie, maybe it will start the trend for mass-murdering 7 year olds!

    they can kill as many people as they want and get tried as kids for not knowing better... like the pack of kids in *The Hostel* lol
  64. Profile photo of simmerslodra
    simmerslodra Male 18-29
    96 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:02 pm
    So that just begs the question:
    What happens to the person who thought it was alright to let an 11YO have unfettered access to a shotgun and ammunition? IMO whoever did that has effectively ended 3 lives and needs to accept responsibility. And that`s is coming from a 2nd amendment is sacred shooting since I was 10 uber-libertarian gun-lover.
  65. Profile photo of premierwondr
    premierwondr Male 18-29
    975 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:04 pm
    Zomebieland: "And you cannot say age isn`t relevant "criminals are criminals" if a 5 year old reached over and pulled the handbrake in a car and caused an fatal accident. its not that same as if a 25 year old did it. AGE IS RELEVENT"

    Are you equating loading a shotgun and fatally shooting a pregnant woman to a 5 year old pulling a lever without knowing what it does?

    I understand that 11 year olds lack the capacity to understand many things but shooting someone doesn`t fall under that category.
    When you load a gun, and you shoot someone, you already know the outcome. You want to kill someone.

    No matter how you try this little piece of sh*t we still can`t bring back the two lost lives.
  66. Profile photo of myrtheus
    myrtheus Male 30-39
    228 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:04 pm
    This kid should be tried as an adult. He knows the difference between right and wrong. He knows that you do not take a shot gun and kill some one. If he did it, then it was a calculated decision on his part. He decided to pick up the gun and kill that woman, knowing that guns kill.
  67. Profile photo of simmerslodra
    simmerslodra Male 18-29
    96 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:05 pm
    Because of the extreme nature of the crime and the sort of moral/emotional confusion that his committing it clearly exhibits, the boy`s punishment, if he`s convicted, should be more than just a slap on the wrist, maybe even an extremely long stay in juvenile facilities or life with possibility of parole. That may be impossible without trying him as an adult, in which case I can see the motivation to try him as an adult.
    That said, outside of a legal context, it is absurd to say that an 11YO has the same cognitive ability as an adult. The prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that dampens emotional response and allows for strategic thinking, typically doesn`t fully develop until the mid-twenties, and, erring on the side of caution, is only adequately developed to prevent deadly lapses in judgment by the late teens. An 11YO that otherwise seems completely in control and composed could reasonably be expected to act at some point without fully considering consequences.
  68. Profile photo of xblackstarx
    xblackstarx Male 13-17
    42 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:09 pm
    @zombieland a little kid pulling a handbrake because they don`t know what it does is different than an 11 year old taking a shotgun, loading it, then walking over to that lady and pulling the trigger. He may not have had a developed enough brain to fully consider the consequences, but his intentions were the same. You sound like one of those people that would let off those children who murder animals for fun because, "Oh shucks, they`re just kids :B"
  69. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:11 pm
    Zombieland are you fudgetarded? There is a difference between ignorance and what just happened here. Shtit, even the kids I know who were just general dicks grew up to be bigger dicks. This kid kills a pregnant woman with a shotgun, you can`t claim ignorance on his part for this, not the same as pulling a handbrake. 11`s not an adult but this was definitely done with malice and intent. There is no way this kid stands a chance of being a decent member of society, I`d ask for death penalty if it were up to me.
  70. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:14 pm
    And one quick question, does anyone know anybody who as a kid attempted murder and didn`t turn out to be a complete fudge-up? If someone can find me one example I`ll gladly retract my previous statements.
  71. Profile photo of Land_of_Ice
    Land_of_Ice Female 13-17
    22 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:14 pm
    Trying him as an ADULT.Surely to be tried as an adult you have to be one? Unless the USA deems 12 to be the entrance year into adulthood?
  72. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:20 pm
    It is highly unlikely that an 11-year-old is mentally mature enough to be compared to an adult. As simmerslodra pointed out, the parts of the brain responsible for rational decision-making aren`t fully developed until a person is much older. It`s tragic that he took two lives, but it may have happened in an emotional moment that he didn`t rationally think through. There are adults that are let off the hook for temporary insanity, often in iffier circumstances than this, so why is a child, who can`t be held responsible for his actions, going to be treated as a responsible adult? He should certainly get some punishment as a deterrent to doing something like this again, but life in prison/the death penalty is too harsh, as well as pointless. Those penalties are supposed to be for people who can`t be changed and must be removed from society. Punishment that doesn`t deprive a person of everything can be given to those who can learn and change and become functional members of society.
  73. Profile photo of Maxables
    Maxables Male 70 & Over
    51 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:23 pm
    Try him as an adult. He`s a poisonous little poo.
  74. Profile photo of simmerslodra
    simmerslodra Male 18-29
    96 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:27 pm
    @kingpon
    Retraction time.
    Mary Bell of the UK was sexually abused as a toddler by her mother, a sex-worker, and her mother`s clients. Subsequently she went insane and killed a bunch of little boys, served 12 years, got out of prison and led a peaceful life raising her daughter in complete, state-protected anonymity, until the press ruined it.
    People do change
    She`s still alive, and so, could still drat up, but after about 20 years of not murdering, it seems unlikely.
  75. Profile photo of hatface
    hatface Male 18-29
    605 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:29 pm
    Can someone actually tell me why he`s allowed to be tried by law? I would have thought it wasn`t something that could be argued against. Does anyone know? I`m genuinely interested.
  76. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:29 pm
    Volsunga said: "@jtrebowski
    So victims of theft are responsible for another person murdering someone? Your moral compass is seriously f*cked up. Please fix that so you aren`t considered a sociopath."

    In certain cases, yes, they do hold some responsibility, especially if the item stolen was a gun. Just about any yahoo can own a gun, but gun ownership carries responsibilties, one of which is insuring that the gun doesn`t fall into the wrong hands. That`s what safes and gun lockers are for. If those precautions aren`t taken, and the gun is used in a crime by someone else (much like this case with the child), the gun owner has blood on his hands and should be treated accordingly.
  77. Profile photo of tn11
    tn11 Male 18-29
    1587 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:32 pm
    well I want to hear an interview with the dad, I think it was negligent of the reporters not to include that.
  78. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:34 pm
    I`ve seen a few comments about how people should keep their guns securely locked in a safe so they can`t be stolen and used to kill people.

    Sounds fair enough, as a stolen gun is very much more likely to be used for violent crime. The problem is that it completely invalidates the oft-stated reason for having guns in the home in the first place - defence against intruders. A gun locked away in a safe is less useful for defence than a soggy marshmallow.

    Can`t have it both ways. Either you have guns available for defence or you don`t. If you do, some will be stolen to kill people and some will be used to kill people on the spur of the moment and some will be found by children who then accidentally kill themself or other children. Make your choice but don`t pretend you can choose both. That`s just dishonest.

  79. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:38 pm
    Developmental psychologists have demonstrated thoroughly that kids this age do not possess the same capacity to make rational decisions, nor the capacity to exercise self-restraint, as adults- which is why they shouldn`t be tried as adults. The problem is, the US does not have an adequate system for addressing juvenile criminality- especially involving violent behavior.

    If he is tried as a juvenile, he will almost certainly not get the help he needs to learn how to control his behavior, and will almost definitely go on to commit more violent crimes. On principle, I don`t think he should be tried as an adult, but for the sake of everyone else in society, and given the present options, trying him as an adult so he can be locked up for life looks like the better choice.
  80. Profile photo of LuckyDave
    LuckyDave Male 18-29
    675 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:39 pm
    Ok, I`m sure that I`m not the only one here who thought of this, but, if he -did- kill her, how and where the hell did he get his hands on the shotgun???

    Not blaming this on the firearm, God no. I am, however, questioning the responsibility of the one who supervised the use of said firearm. And, I`m sorry, if the 8 year old is the only witness, could she not have been intimidated into saying something contrary to what she saw? Muffling the sound of the gun, if that`s what happened, and not simply by happenstance, then that sounds like the mechanics of a much more rational mind than that of a 12 year old.

    Granted, if he did it, yes, he should go to prison for at least the minimum sentence (20 years if I`m correct), but I`m simply playing Devil`s Advocate on this one.
  81. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:43 pm
    Life in prison? Hell no, let`s put that 12 year old in the electric chair! Imagine that.

    Why is that any worse than executing an 18 year old?

    We`re talking about murder here, not an accident. A deliberate killing, planned in advance and carried out. That is not a childish act. That is not an action that requires a person to have reached a magic age in order to know if it`s OK or not. That is not a grey area of ethics.

    In a case like this I`d take a person`s age into account for sentencing if they were convicted, but not before.
  82. Profile photo of punk7634
    punk7634 Female 18-29
    192 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:43 pm
    @hatface
    It`s not that`s he`s not going to be tried under law, it what laws should he be tried under. The US has a special set of laws for Juveniles. Who`s considered under those laws varies from state to state and sometimes case to case, but it`s generally anyone under 18. And in Pennsylvania, usually 16 and under are tried as juveniles. Considering how sever this kid`s crime was and it appears if he did it, he had deliberate intent to commit murder, they want to try him as an adult, which has harsher punishments. Juveniles generally go to a facility for the most sever offenses or just probation for less stuff.
  83. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3771 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:57 pm
    i read the original story on yahoo a little while back. it was reported that he got the gun, went into her room while she was asleep, shot her in the head, picked up the spent shell, put the gun back and supposedly calmly went off to school, leaving the body to be found by her nursery-school-aged daughter. he`s continued to deny this scenario however and protest his innocence.

    i don`t pretend to know the solution to this but i think that he should spend much more time in confinement than a family court would impose--usually only until the 21st birthday--which, at the rate the system is proceeding, would hardly amount to any time at all.

    i reiterate that i don`t know the answer to this but i do know that i would not want to have any dealings with him, either now or in the future. i think also that if the family cared deeply for him they would suggest he spend as much time as possible in treatment while incarcerated.
  84. Profile photo of SashaTheBrit
    SashaTheBrit Female 18-29
    45 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 12:57 pm
    The kid knew that what he did was wrong. He`s old enough to know that murder isn`t done in polite society. Try him as an adult.
  85. Profile photo of ardystic
    ardystic Male 18-29
    1083 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    damn kid witness can`t get her story straight. your mom just got murdered, tell the drating truth to help put away her killer you stupid bitch.
  86. Profile photo of LTimeLurker
    LTimeLurker Female 18-29
    723 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:01 pm
    Sbeelz- Agree entirely.
  87. Profile photo of Dragonluna
    Dragonluna Female 13-17
    158 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:03 pm
    He is probably the kid from Orphan. KILL HIM WITH FIRE.
  88. Profile photo of liklepip
    liklepip Female 18-29
    136 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:09 pm
    if a 12 year old doesn`t know it`s wrong to murder people i don`t think they ever will
  89. Profile photo of Inter237
    Inter237 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:11 pm
    Jeez depressing day IAB
  90. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:16 pm
    "damn kid witness can`t get her story straight. your mom just got murdered, tell the drating truth to help put away her killer you stupid bitch."

    You`re either a troll, an idiot, an non-nice individual or all three. Kids make notoriously bad witnesses because they don`t have a solid concept of reality or truth- those are things which are developed over time. Small children generally rely on adults to tell them what is true- so much so that it can overpower the evidence of their own senses.
  91. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25407 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:26 pm
    meh....
  92. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:28 pm
    Angillion said ".......Can`t have it both ways......."

    Yes you can. If you are home, then you keep the gun out for self-defense. That`s not when these weapons are being stolen. When you leave your home, either take the gun with you, or keep it secured in a place where it cannot be stolen. That`s called "responsible gun-ownership", and it`s a concept that far too few people, espicially right-wing NRA types fail to grasp.
  93. Profile photo of mclovin973
    mclovin973 Male 18-29
    407 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:40 pm
    that kid got issues
  94. Profile photo of SmilinSam
    SmilinSam Female 18-29
    3599 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    why life? give him 30+ years and when he`s learned his lesson, let him go? it isn`t the kids fault that he had ACCESS to the gun... that right there is the true crime, parental stupidity. aren`t you supposed to have a gun cabinet for shotguns? one that locks? especially if your kid is a psycho?
  95. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2423 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:05 pm
    "it isn`t the kids fault that he had ACCESS to the gun"

    I had access to a gun since I could crawl. I never shot a pregnant woman with one.

    "especially if your kid is a psycho?"

    According to the report he had no history of dangerous or violent behavior.
  96. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:08 pm
    @simmerslodra, I did some research on Miss Bell, she`s still a manipulative bitch and exploits her past actions as well as her daughter. We may have varying definitions of what a phuk-up is, but to me profiting off murder while showing little to no remorse qualifies.
  97. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:13 pm
    How is this a gun issue? This kid would have murdered her with something else if it weren`t the gun. People who kill pregnant women are probably not going to be worried about getting there hands a little dirty.
  98. Profile photo of MurphyBed
    MurphyBed Female 18-29
    126 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:26 pm
    It`d be cool if they gave him the death penalty.

    I mean, my god, look at his eyes. There`s not even a person there.
  99. Profile photo of samidoll
    samidoll Female 18-29
    616 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:28 pm
    make him an example. kids shouldn`t get away with doing bad things just because they are kids. truth, there is a part of the brain that only develops fully in most people at age 25, but that makes us question ourselves as to what is truly an adult, and who can truly be tried as one? 18yr olds? 25yr olds? and if their brain is stunted, are they considered juveniles? no.

    i just think that this is not something that can be looked at as "well, he`s a kid, he had access to a gun, didn`t know any better" no. my father had guns at home. we never knew where they were, to begin with, and he tells us now that we are in our twenties that he re-hid them regularly.

    is this the fault of the parent? no. is this the fault of the kid, for seeking out anything to harm a pregnant woman? yes. try the f><cker as an adult.
  100. Profile photo of appledoc
    appledoc Male 50-59
    28 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:36 pm
    Little boy, big crime? Big crime, big punishment. Premeditated murder, no conceivable justification? Die for it.

    This is a down-the-street local issue for me... and I say f**k the little POS. He did it. No question about it, slam dunk. Now there are a bunch of peolple wringing their hands over "Why?" and "How did he get the gun?" and blah blah blah. He did it. A psychopathic killer surfaced at 12 instead of waiting. Let him out of jail when his victims come back to life... since we`re not allowed to just permanently remove the threat to society.
  101. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:36 pm
    "can`t we all just hug now and stop fighting?"

    Maybe he should be sentenced to hugs?
  102. Profile photo of popsiclemyk
    popsiclemyk Male 13-17
    531 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:49 pm
    Wtf? wow, he should go 2 jail dude... and she was pregers? Thats effed up man...
  103. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 2:51 pm
    MurphyBed said: " It`d be cool if they gave him the death penalty.

    I mean, my god, look at his eyes. There`s not even a person there."


    Uh-oh..Now you`ve done it. The whole thread is gonna turn into a pro/con discussion about excorcism.

    Oh BTW, you DO realize that innocent people have been killed by the death penalty, don`t you? Or do you not care?
  104. Profile photo of Listypoos
    Listypoos Male 40-49
    3069 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:02 pm
    If his lawyer really thinks he`s innocent why would it matter to him how he`s tried? It would surely only matter if he`s found guilty and is then sentences as either a minor or an adult....

    That aside, at 12 years old you know right from wrong.... you may not totally grasp the concept of consequences, especially if your parents are poo ones... but that doesn`t alter the fact of knowing right from wrong, it`s just that they`ll bitch about being caught and cry about it later.
  105. Profile photo of Reignblazer
    Reignblazer Male 18-29
    2334 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:17 pm
    If you`re going to put him on trial as an adult, why not put all minors on trial as adults? It would be setting a bad precedent on these matters.

    Was it messed up for him to do what he did? Yes, it is undeniably f`d up. But what is the main issue we should be adressing here? The fact a 12 year old with a grudge attacked this woman? Or the fact that said 12 year old had access to a deadly weapon and knew how to use it?

    It`s the same issue that`s plagued the US since its inception: irresponsible people with access to guns.

    As far as sentencing goes, I don`t see the merit in convicting a 12 year old that knows nothing more that what his parents instilled in him to a life long in gladiator camp.
  106. Profile photo of OsirisXero
    OsirisXero Male 40-49
    38 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:23 pm
    Another case of a kid thinking he`ll get away with it if he only acts innocent, denies it and pretends it didn`t happen. Like so many other generation Y and Internet generation kids, he wants and takes, no matter what rules are broken and who it hurts, and it the first to bitch and moan about how they have to suffer consequences and start with the "but I`m just a kid" BS.

    I`ve got news for all you "kids" out there: you`ve been taught the difference between right and wrong; if not from your parents, then from your relatives, and if not from them, from your teachers, and if not there, from all the TV and internet you absorb through your computers and phones... You want to be treated like adults, have all the benefits and freedoms you think adults have and are willing to forsake your family and you childhood for it, fine. But be ready to take everything else that accompanies it. If you aren`t ready for that, shut the hell up and do as your told.
  107. Profile photo of Mani-Jac
    Mani-Jac Male 40-49
    805 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:27 pm
    Yay for free guns for everyone and everywhere....
  108. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:34 pm
    Makes me want to legalize exile now.
  109. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:37 pm
    @jtrebowski, of course innocent people have been killed by the death penalty, but I assure you that the number of innocent people killed by repeat offenders is much higher than the number of innocent people killed by the death penalty. No system is perfect but there are certain cases when an execution is called for and I personally believe that this is one of them.
  110. Profile photo of lukeforv123
    lukeforv123 Male 18-29
    1053 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    The kids obviously a psycho, his life is ruined. Just give him the death penalty and get on with it. There`s really no reason to keep him alive, he`ll never be normal.
  111. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:42 pm
    @Angillon: Children are capable of terrible things, but it doesn`t mean that they are as responsible for those things as adults. Children often don`t know right from wrong as firmly as adults do, and, as has been stated a few times already, their brains aren`t developed properly for rational decision-making and self-restraint. Just because you can`t imagine a kid killing, doesn`t mean that a kid can`t kill and still have the mentality of a kid. Further, why even have a juvenile prison system if certain offenses will be tried as an adult, whether the offender is an adult or not? When a kid steals, you don`t throw the book at him. You give him a slap on the wrist because he didn`t know better and/or couldn`t help himself, but you want to teach him to be better than that. The same should apply for any crime committed by a child.
  112. Profile photo of tincel1372
    tincel1372 Female 18-29
    423 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 3:46 pm
    lol OsirisXero :
    ``...you`ve been taught the difference between right and wrong from all the TV and internet you absorb...``

    I think you might want to rethink that last bit.
  113. Profile photo of BoredIAm
    BoredIAm Male 18-29
    146 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:01 pm
    Execute the little psycho drater. Next case.
  114. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:03 pm
    Quick question: Did anyone here not know that murder was wrong by the time they were this kid`s age?
  115. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:04 pm
    @kingpong: So, if a few innocent people are wrongly executed, it`s a small price to pay? Are you willing to tell the families of said innocent people that? Would you feel the same way if it were your Mother that was wrongly executed?
  116. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:10 pm
    Kingpong said: "Quick question: Did anyone here not know that murder was wrong by the time they were this kid`s age?"
    Sure I did, but I doubt I grasped the finality of the act, or I might have thought there was justification for my actions. We can argue ad nauseum how kids know the difference between right and wrong, but you can`t ignore the fact that a childs mind is incredibly less developed than an adults. That`s not opinion. It`s fact.
  117. Profile photo of SilverThread
    SilverThread Male 30-39
    3435 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:15 pm
    Just to be sure, we should imprison his father too.
  118. Profile photo of SilentFray
    SilentFray Female 18-29
    683 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:23 pm
    This is all over the news here.

    Local news tells a more in depth story. The murder used a youth shotgun and killed the mother by shooting her in the back of the head (execution style).

    Hmmm.....sounds pretty ruthless to me.
  119. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:44 pm
    @Silentfray: Well, I guess now we can`t blame the kid or the Dad. If this was intentional, clearly they would`ve used the "youth model" AK-47, or the "youth model" Uzi. Even the the "youth-model" Glock would have done more damage. This is clearly just one big misunderstanding designed by the Socialist "lame-stream" media to make real Americans look bad. As a matter of fact...that kid should be given a medal for expert marksmanship. You wait...it`ll soon be revealed that the "victim" was actually a Liberal who refused to have vacuum the floor everynight, and have Daddy`s slippers and newspaper ready for him! Oh and furthermore....Hey WAITTT! Who the hell turned off Glenn Beck?? I was on a roll!


    jk :)
  120. Profile photo of Arrowman325
    Arrowman325 Male 13-17
    15 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:52 pm
    Ive only read a couple of pages of this, but it seems that a majority of the people seem to think that he was the only one who could have done it. The only "evidence" that was presented was an eight year old saying that he did it, who they said was unreliable and changed her story when she talked to investigators, and an apparent grudge. If he were to be tried as an adult, what would happen? How could you put somebody in jail with little to no evidence. Hey, who knows? Maybe the eight year old did it herself. I haven`t seen that on here yet at all. Maybe since she also could be suspected, we should put an eight year old into prison for life. But, oh wait, she said that the twelve year old did it? And that she saw him? Obviously she has to be telling the truth. That would explain the change in story. But still, no evidence against her. If a child is going to be tried as an adult, at least do it right.
  121. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 4:54 pm
    Would I want to tell the families, no, but there is a difference between looking at this from a rational perspective and an emotional perspective. I would be willing to tell the families if they were willing to listen to me. I support the death penalty in extreme cases like this and feel that it is necessary, if my mom was executed I`d be pissed and try to clear her name, but I highly doubt I`d change my beliefs on this issue. and I`m well aware of the differences in a child`s mind but this isn`t the action of a child, it`s the action of a psychopath. If it weren`t for the rarity of these stories I`d consider thinking differently, but seeing as how the vast majority of kids don`t murder anyone I`d say that this anomaly shows this one particular person`s failings and not that of the brains of children.
  122. Profile photo of hatface
    hatface Male 18-29
    605 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 5:28 pm
    @punk7634

    Thank you, punk7634. You`ve managed to clear things up for me a little better. I was starting to think no one on here has any answers.
  123. Profile photo of sylphies
    sylphies Female 18-29
    282 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 5:40 pm
    wait so the only evidence against him is that the 8 year old SAID HE DID IT?
  124. Profile photo of Darkhumour
    Darkhumour Male 18-29
    257 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 5:41 pm
    for doing something at the age of 12 that as an actual adult you would never do because lets face it at 12 the biggest thing in your life was your (insert gaming device) and you would get so dratnig upset about it if someone took not that this is the case i`m jsut saying as a child you don`[t think as rationally as someone over 20. and to condemn this child to prison for the rest of his life because some stupid drat thought it would be funny for a 12 year old boy to have access to his own gun and ammo is absolutley rediculous.
  125. Profile photo of BloodyBob
    BloodyBob Male 18-29
    3 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 5:46 pm
    The messed up thing about this situation is that if he`s going to be in jail for an extended amount of time, odds are he`ll become desensitized to criminal behaviour. When he is released, he`ll probably just end right back in jail because he won`t know how to function in regular society (spending a critical part of his childhood in jail and all).
    @Arrowman325 Although your theory about the little girl committing the murder could technically be right, I`m pretty sure the trauma of watching her mother (and unborn sibbling) die would be a more probable reason to why she might mix up details of her story.
  126. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 5:47 pm
    @sylphies, and that they found the murder weapon in his room. and that he had a motive, not a good one, but he apparently hated her.
  127. Profile photo of SarahofBorg
    SarahofBorg Female 18-29
    3564 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 5:49 pm
    Saying the action is adult and therefore should be treated like one is like saying kids who have been raped are now adults.
  128. Profile photo of fabbatruffs
    fabbatruffs Male 18-29
    111 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 5:52 pm
    yes to life in prison
  129. Profile photo of premierwondr
    premierwondr Male 18-29
    975 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 5:52 pm
    Do you really think he would have killed her without the gun?
    If I was killed by a 12 year old, even with a knife I would be really embarrassed. (or as embarrassed as I can be once I`m dead)
    Plus the chance of surviving a stabbing has got to be much greater than surviving buckshot.
  130. Profile photo of simmerslodra
    simmerslodra Male 18-29
    96 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:01 pm
    @kingpong
    I assumed you were talking about recidivism, not just any behavior that pisses you off, legal or not. What crimes did she commit after release? You can`t expect someone who was that drated up/over as a kid to be completely free of problems later, but, how horrible could she have been if she never wound up in jail again? Especially with the attention authorities must have paid to her after release.
    Also, out of fairness, what were your sources documenting her "remorselessness" and "manipulative" personality. I only found references to remorselessness when she was first caught. I`ll admit IDK much more than the basics about the case. I just remembered a little from the Joe Coleman documentary and wanted to bring it up.
  131. Profile photo of FfanaticR
    FfanaticR Male 18-29
    43 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:03 pm
    He can`t even god damn reproduce. Tried as an adult my ass.
  132. Profile photo of kangoala
    kangoala Male 18-29
    702 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:16 pm
    There`s no way he`ll get a life sentence. I doubt he`ll even be tried in criminal court. There are droves of child psychologists and psychiatrists that are just waiting to step up and embarrass a prosecutor trying to get a life sentence.
    Does he deserve a pretty harsh punishment? Definately. Could he, at that age, even comprehend the concept of life in prison? I doubt it.
    He`ll get off. I`d bet money on it.
  133. Profile photo of TheShgn2
    TheShgn2 Male 13-17
    626 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:19 pm
    He should be confined to a mental hospital for at least 10 years. He`s obviously not ok in the head, but he`s only 12.
  134. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:26 pm
    "of course innocent people have been killed by the death penalty, but I assure you that the number of innocent people killed by repeat offenders is much higher than the number of innocent people killed by the death penalty. No system is perfect but there are certain cases when an execution is called for and I personally believe that this is one of them."

    Life imprisonment achieves the same effect of protecting the public from repeat offenders- prison breaks are relatively rare. And if you mistakenly imprison someone for life, they can be let out again.
  135. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:33 pm
    Also, given the choice, I`d MUCH rather be randomly killed by a repeat offender than wrongfully executed. Think about it- knowing you`re innocent, being unable to convince jury after jury to acquit, being unable to stop what`s coming for years and years until you`re finally strapped down to a chair or table and murdered by agents of the government- people you paid with your taxes when you were still free. You would die knowing that you would be remembered as a violent criminal- knowing that even the people you love may question your innocence. I can not think of many deaths more horrible than that.
  136. Profile photo of frEbAsnSuga
    frEbAsnSuga Female 18-29
    133 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:41 pm
    Put him in a padded room for the rest of his life. I believe he should be locked away, but that it should be in the right place. He would get torn apart in prison. Trying him as a juvenile and taking it easy on him would teach children that they can commit crimes as long as they do it before they are 16, or 18, or whatever that cutoff is.
  137. Profile photo of NotTHATbored
    NotTHATbored Female 18-29
    1101 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:43 pm
    @sbleez Yes, but what if it is known that someone committed the crime? What if there is DNA evidence or a handful of eye witnesses? There are plenty of cases where the person is known to be guilty. Maybe better guidelines are needed, but there is no real reason to allow a known murderer to live at the expense of the taxpayer and the victims family.

    This KID should spend life in prison or a mental ward period. He`s a bad one and he`ll never be anything different. Better to have him locked up where he can`t hurt himself or anyone else. If they can try him as an adult I hope they do.

    @Kingpong of course we did! I think the better question is who didn`t?!
  138. Profile photo of shappy
    shappy Male 18-29
    757 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:44 pm
    sent to a mental ward and look into who the drat let the kid anywhere near a gun. if you have kids in the house keep your guns at a friends or at a relatives.
  139. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:48 pm
    @frEbAsnSuga
    I`ve heard of cases where people under 18 are tried as adults, but they carry out the first portion of their sentence in a juvenile detention center. Then when they are 18, they are transferred to a prison to carry out the rest of their sentence. Sending a 12 year old to jail would be terrible. Might as well just sentence him to get F`d in the A until dead.
  140. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:51 pm
    "Yes, but what if it is known that someone committed the crime? What if there is DNA evidence or a handful of eye witnesses? There are plenty of cases where the person is known to be guilty. Maybe better guidelines are needed, but there is no real reason to allow a known murderer to live at the expense of the taxpayer and the victims family. "

    The fact is, errors are made in the judicial system. It happens. Supposedly, everyone who is convicted is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt- but innocent people get convicted every year. It`s just not worth the risk of executing innocent people.

    As far as cost goes- executions are far more expensive than life imprisonment because of the lengthy appeals process- the very process designed to reduce the number of innocent people sent to their deaths. So if you want to make executions cheaper than life imprisonment, you have to be willing to murder more innocent people.
  141. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:54 pm
    Now that I think about it...maybe some of you right-winger can change my mind. Those radical left-wing countries with all their "progressive western values" wouldn`t even consider trying him as an adult. we`re in much better company: "The US is the only country where juveniles are serving life imprisonment without parole under the so-called "life means life" policy. Only the US and Somalia have refused to ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which rules out life sentences with no chance of release for crimes committed before the age of 18."

    Guesss it`s time conservatives start waving the Somali flag. Why not? They already wave the Iranian and Ugandan flags when it comes to equality for gays.
  142. Profile photo of jessyfish
    jessyfish Female 18-29
    90 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 6:58 pm
    I don`t think age matters when it comes to murder. He knew what he was doing, he should pay the price.
  143. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 7:19 pm
    @simmersoldra, I found a couple of sites saying that she only showed remorse when she was talking about the events, but would instantly "recover" when she didn`t need to play the part any more. A lot of people claim she is manipulative and exploits herself and others around her. Not necessarily illegal activities, but that doesn`t mean she is a good person. She wrote a book detailing the events to make money, I don`t care the motivation or legality of this, this is sick. There are plenty of sick twisted people who aren`t necessarily criminals, and not being arrested doesn`t make you a good person. Second Google Search
  144. Profile photo of Lucky2u
    Lucky2u Male 18-29
    315 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 7:23 pm
    In this one particular case I am for the trying as an adult. That kid will never be a productive member of society.
  145. Profile photo of collegebound
    collegebound Male 18-29
    3745 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 7:26 pm
    "if you have kids in the house keep your guns at a friends or at a relatives."

    wouldn`t that defeat the purpose of owning a gun in the first place? id say just use that thing called a safe...a lock box...gun case...something that would be impossible for a child to open...
  146. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 7:34 pm
    @sbeelz, in my opinion life imprisonment is far worse than the death penalty for everyone involved. First off, I`d be pissed if I were paying people to hold me hostage for years on end than to just off me. Nobody can just leave prison untouched, it`s a breeding ground for violence and all sorts of badness, after you`ve been in you get institutionalized and then you can`t just rejoin society, whether or not you were innocent to begin with. Our current judicial system trains criminals and keeping them all together just creates better criminals. Prison is a lengthy torture, but I`ll only die once. There is certainly an emotional desire to not just kill people, but there are times when it is the best option. I really don`t care about the cost, I just don`t want better trained killers and thieves and rapists. I personally believe that the benefit would outweigh the cost if we were to execute.
  147. Profile photo of sgibson12
    sgibson12 Male 30-39
    93 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 7:37 pm
    The lady at the end has the mind of a 12 year old. Not to bright that one.

    No one under 18 she be charged as an adult. That`s why we differentiate between adults and juveniles.

    The video references that the kid didn`t have a bad history. He was 11! Almost no one has a recrod at eleven. What were they going to say, he had a history of not cleaning his room? That prosecutor should be fired.
  148. Profile photo of quaintness
    quaintness Male 13-17
    1086 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 7:43 pm
    Unless there`s some other evidence, I don`t see any "probable cause" reason for prosecution?
  149. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 7:52 pm
    I`m sorry, when I was twelve I still knew the difference between right and wrong. I don`t have a problem with life imprisonment.
  150. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 7:57 pm
    "First off, I`d be pissed if I were paying people to hold me hostage for years on end than to just off me."

    But they don`t "just off you" when you get the death penalty- the appeals process takes years. Don`t try and tell me you wouldn`t fight your damnedest to survive and clear your name if you were sentenced to death for a crime you didn`t commit.

    "There is certainly an emotional desire to not just kill people, but there are times when it is the best option."

    The desire to seek revenge through the death penalty is just as emotional. There is no pragmatic reason to execute people rather than hold them in prison for life when they pose a danger to society.
  151. Profile photo of Kougaiji
    Kougaiji Male 18-29
    604 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 8:00 pm
    If this was any other country the father would get poo on by the state for being a bad parent
  152. Profile photo of littlebaggie
    littlebaggie Female 18-29
    71 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 8:07 pm
    when i was 12 i knew how it use a gun, and was pretty good, but theres a big difference between a deer and a women..
    and whatever happend to gun cabnets with locks??
  153. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 8:09 pm
    Yeah I`d work my ass off to clear my name but I also think the appeal process should be sped up. I`d off myself if I got life or death penalty. And dead people are a much smaller threat than live people. Seriously, what`s the point of living if you`re gonna be in prison for your life. The issue you and I appear to disagree on is whether or not the benefit outweighs the cost. To me it appears that you find life imprisonment less costly than death in all cases, I don`t. We`ll never agree on this, but I`m glad we can have this discussion as I believe it allows us to explore the strengths and weaknesses of ours and each others arguments. Oh, and quit telling me to be 100% practical when your arguments so far have primarily been "What if it happens to you/your mother?" It`s not an argument that can be decided rationally, however I try to be as rational as I can about it.
  154. Profile photo of godthaab
    godthaab Male 18-29
    220 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 8:26 pm
    Non violent kid? BS! He was wearing a football uniform - tell me there is no violence there!
  155. Profile photo of nijd
    nijd Male 18-29
    267 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 8:50 pm
    "Non violent kid? BS! He was wearing a football uniform - tell me there is no violence there!"

    You are such a homo if you`re serious.
  156. Profile photo of Korris
    Korris Female 18-29
    21 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 8:57 pm
    I`d say the last statement isn`t necesarily true. We start to learn how to stay out of trouble at a pretty young age.

    "Sunday, January 30, 2011 7:37:44 PM
    The lady at the end has the mind of a 12 year old. Not to bright that one.

    "No one under 18 she be charged as an adult. That`s why we differentiate between adults and juveniles. "

    Do our minds automatically switch over when we`re 18? I agree that he shouldn`t be tried as one, but I think 18 is more of a guideline.

    Plus, it`s a bit dodgey when their only witness is an 8 year old child. Also it could just be the clip, but is there any other evidence? =/
  157. Profile photo of chunkymonkie
    chunkymonkie Male 13-17
    670 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:04 pm
    Btw even if you think 11 is too young, ANYBODY who is a teenager should be charged as an adult. By the age of 13 it is not even arguable that the mind is developed enough to know the consequences of killing.
  158. Profile photo of freddyferret
    freddyferret Male 40-49
    11742 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:22 pm
    Fry the little bastard. Don`t waste our money with life in prison.
  159. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 9:30 pm
    @freddyferret: I think you meant to give him life in prison. It costs taxpayers more money to execute.
  160. Profile photo of freddyferret
    freddyferret Male 40-49
    11742 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:02 pm
    If he`s that young I doubt it would cost more to execute. If it`s truly life in prison he could be there for 60 or 70 years or more.
  161. Profile photo of evilducky00
    evilducky00 Male 18-29
    430 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 10:46 pm
    Send him to prison. I got a whole neighborhood of these pre-teen bastards, they can do anything and their slates get wiped cleaned at 18.
  162. Profile photo of Bullish
    Bullish Male 30-39
    108 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:02 pm
    This is a symptom of our ph cked up society. The US has over 2,500 kids serving life sentences. The rest of the world has 1 dozen limited to Israel, Tanzania and one other country I can`t recall atm. This is not an isolated incident. We have to ask ourselves what is broken in the US?
  163. Profile photo of simmerslodra
    simmerslodra Male 18-29
    96 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:06 pm
    @kingpong
    Thanks for the link.
    I think I see why you don`t count the Bell case as an example of effective reform, even though I still do.
  164. Profile photo of NotTHATbored
    NotTHATbored Female 18-29
    1101 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:28 pm
    @Sbeelz yes exactly some innocent people do get put to death, which is why the rules need to be more stringent. That doesn`t mean that the penalty is necessarily bad or wrong just that they need to wield it better. Give it only to people who can be linked to the crime with DNA or multiple witnesses.
  165. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:52 pm
    When a kid steals, you don`t throw the book at him. You give him a slap on the wrist because he didn`t know better and/or couldn`t help himself, but you want to teach him to be better than that. The same should apply for any crime committed by a child.

    I think that shows where we disagree. I think the crime is relevant, you don`t.

    Someone who doesn`t know any better than to commit premeditated murder or who can`t help committing premeditated murder is not safe to be in society. It`s not something done innocently. It`s not like shoplifting or pickpocketing.

    It`s true that humans develop with age and that brings a better understanding of consequences and decision-making abilities, but it doesn`t occur overnight at 18. It starts at birth and can continue up until death. I`m much older than you - should we be tried under different systems for the same crime? If not, why not?

    It varied between individuals, too.
  166. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 30, 2011 at 11:57 pm
    Saying the action is adult and therefore should be treated like one is like saying kids who have been raped are now adults.

    You appear to be confusing victims and perpetrators. People who are raped aren`t making an action - they`re having one made against them. Different thing entirely.

    It`s like saying that if murder is an adult act, then if a child is murdered they (or, more accurately, their corpse) become an adult. It doesn`t make sense.
  167. Profile photo of phoneybone
    phoneybone Male 18-29
    1744 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 12:37 am
    yes, try as adult....agreed, brutal crime, but something tells me there`s more to the story, like molestation or abuse of some kind, for the most part kids don`t go batsh*t crazy and kill their parents; some do, but very unusual.
  168. Profile photo of Genocyde
    Genocyde Male 30-39
    712 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 12:39 am
    Just based on the news clip here, I have to say that it would be fair to first establish whether or not the kid actually did shoot and kill the woman. This is something that the state must first prove. If he`s tried as an adult, I have no problem with that as long as the defense does it`s job and the prosecution also does theirs to the letter. Furthermore, as an adult, the kid is also entitled to certain constitutional rights that he otherwise wouldn`t have as a juvenile.

    I can see where the defense is going with this and where others may agree but I honestly don`t think you`re looking at the benefits here.

    It would be best to first prove that he did it and then determine whether or not he should be sentenced as an adult or juvenile.
  169. Profile photo of tedgp
    tedgp Male 30-39
    3287 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 1:13 am
    Gerry1of1
    Male, 40-49, Western US
    5512 Posts Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:41:34 AM
    tedgp

    The question is "should a 12 year old be tried as an adult"

    try to keep up

    ---------------

    And as multiple people said, it depends on the severity of the crime and the situation. This kid consciously muffled teh gun as not to make a noise.


    try to keep up.
  170. Profile photo of jbwhite
    jbwhite Male 18-29
    1292 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 1:39 am
    chair him and have it done with
  171. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:11 am
    chair him and have it done with

    Many people cling to the archaic notion of a trial despite the infallible ability of the modern media to determine guilt.
  172. Profile photo of damokiwi
    damokiwi Male 40-49
    75 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:25 am
    You don`t try children as adults. That`s it. To do anything else is revenge not justice. Of course he should be tried but as what he is, a child.
  173. Profile photo of Anger
    Anger Male 18-29
    218 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 5:10 am
    that women at the end of the clip makes me cringe
  174. Profile photo of Poachi
    Poachi Male 13-17
    2 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 5:38 am
    This is the current topic of Lincoln Douglas debate in high school, whether or not violent juvenile offenders should be sent to adult prison. The big argument is a child`s moral culpability for their crimes. There are experts who say they`re less developed, no one who says they aren`t culpable. Age is an arbitrary social construct because rationality is not something that comes with turning 18. It comes, in many studies, to people by middle-school age. If you want to argue against that, then please prove that he didn`t know that it was wrong, and that other American youth who murder didn`t know that murder was wrong.
  175. Profile photo of Klix
    Klix Female 18-29
    92 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 6:11 am
    I can see why there`d be debate. The age of the witness as well as the offender himself. But still if he did silence a shot gun and blow away a pregnant woman that boy is a murderer and a cold blooded one at that. Jealousy is motive and a damn strong one too. I`m sorry but he should go to jail for life like any other murderer would. And I`m sure the eight year old changed her story she a) just lost her mum and b) was probably being heckled by defence. I imagine she`s scared pooless. Still hopefully they`ll find more evidence than her statement to put him away.
  176. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 6:21 am
    @damokiwi
    they have to try them as adults, when they`re tried as juveniles they can`t get a life sentence
  177. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 6:21 am
    "I`d off myself if I got life or death penalty."
    Fine, you do that.
    "Seriously, what`s the point of living if you`re gonna be in prison for your life."

    Like I said- you can release someone who has been wrongfully imprisoned, but you can`t bring someone back from the dead. It is the height of arrogance to think that our justice system is so great at determining innocence or guilt that we have the right to put people`s very lives in the balance.


    "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." -J.R.R. Tolkein
  178. Profile photo of Pinkminx22
    Pinkminx22 Female 30-39
    1081 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 6:37 am
    I believe they should try him as an adult..at 12 yrs old I knew damn well cold blooded murder was wrong, and I knew the consequences for my actions, especially when you do something so horrible such as murder..and what did that boy think was gonna happen when you point a gun and pull the trigger at someone, that confetteii and flower peddles were gonna shoot out of the barrel.
  179. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2205 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 6:59 am
    Why prison?

    Hang his ass.

    It`s time to thin the herd.
  180. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 7:16 am
    First off, If he is tried as an adult that does not mean he will be sent directly to adult penitentiary. If he is found guilty, As and adult, He will spend the rest of his youth in a juvenile facility until he reaches the age of 18 (That age varies by the state, some don`t send their juvenile offenders to adult prison until the age of 21).

    The main reason to try him as an adult would be to get the death penalty and or a life sentence, which wouldn`t be imposed on him till after he became of age.

    If he was tried as a juvenile, and found guilty, he would most likely be set free after he became of age.

    This kid deserves a life sentence, If he`s found guilty. This sounds like he was thoughtful and deliberate in his actions, I`d find it hard for the defense to claim that it was `temporary insanity`, and badgering an 8-year old witness on the stand will not help their client.
  181. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 7:35 am
    America on its non stop race to become a third world country?
  182. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 7:49 am
    Seeing as the primary witness is a child herself, and has changed her story, I would not want to be sent to prison for such little evidence. To convict, you need to eliminate reasonable doubt. From what little I have heard in this video, there is plenty of reasonable doubt. But I don`t know all the facts.

    If I knew the kid did it? Yes, send him to jail. But if there was doubt? Then no, try him as a juvenile.
  183. Profile photo of BunnyNaku
    BunnyNaku Female 18-29
    5224 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 8:00 am
    :( hard to say. Glad Im not the juror on this case.
  184. Profile photo of Selfluminous
    Selfluminous Male 18-29
    86 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 8:23 am
    what about the man who raised this kid ? the guy who let his son gain access to a gun? the guy who failed to deal with his kid`s jealousy problem ? this kid`s feeling must have been pent up for a long time.
    Sure the little guy was fully aware of the crime the he planned and committed but this case needs more counseling and investigation. The prosecutor sounds like he would fail to raise a kid
  185. Profile photo of flexus
    flexus Male 30-39
    50 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 8:25 am
    please tell me that they have more evidence than just the word of an 8 year old
  186. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36191 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 8:45 am
    Okay, going with the whole "Try the 12 Year Old as an Adult" thing...

    What other things would you hold children to Adult Standards?

  187. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:17 am
    "What other things would you hold children to Adult Standards?"

    Driving my car, doing my taxes, and fixing the wiring in my house.
  188. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:20 am
    I`ve noticed a lot of people making very absolutist statements about what should happen to this kid as if they were there in the room when that pregnant woman died. It doesn`t sound like there are too many facts available in this case, and even fewer were contained in this brief news report. I hope none of you end up with jury duty if I`m ever tried in court.
  189. Profile photo of terracottus
    terracottus Male 30-39
    280 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:28 am
    Since when do you get judged as as an adult according to what you did? You get judged by how old and how mentally stable you are, no matter how brutal the crime is.
    Also, the evidence seems a bit fishy, in dubio pro reo.
  190. Profile photo of duderlydude
    duderlydude Male 30-39
    110 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:33 am
    maybe if they didnt leave shotguns lying around - this wouldnt happen - just a thought
  191. Profile photo of DiePSPolice
    DiePSPolice Male 30-39
    493 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:34 am
    @Genocyde "It would be best to first prove that he did it and then determine whether or not he should be sentenced as an adult or juvenile."

    No sh*t Sherlock?

    Most of you Americans seem to have a severe lack of understand of our justice system. You try him as an adult if you think the crime is bad enough that IF he is found guilt, the punishment will be applied as if he were an adult. The whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing always applies, to everybody, always. If he is tried as an adult, it does not mean we`ve already decided he`s guilty.
  192. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:35 am
    Yay.. I must have the mind of an 18 year old..
  193. Profile photo of duderlydude
    duderlydude Male 30-39
    110 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:35 am
    he is a child not an adult so its pretty straightforward - try him as a child
  194. Profile photo of pocketmoron
    pocketmoron Male 18-29
    191 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:45 am
    Honestly, the justice system is really f*cked up if you can give a 12 yr old a life sentence with an 8 yr old as the only witness.

    This reminds me of a case that was settled last year where a woman was wrongly accused of child molestation and had her children taken away for over two years, solely on the witness of 3 coached kindergarteners.
  195. Profile photo of D3rAnG3d
    D3rAnG3d Male 18-29
    1598 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 11:21 am
    Kill the sick bastard. If he doesn`t know right from wrong by then, he never will.
  196. Profile photo of 8BitHero
    8BitHero Male 18-29
    5414 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 11:27 am
    Try him as an adult! I don`t get it. He murdered someone so take his life away and make him rot!
  197. Profile photo of Oystah
    Oystah Female 40-49
    4033 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 11:33 am
    Cute kid - NAWT
  198. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 11:52 am
    Okay, going with the whole "Try the 12 Year Old as an Adult" thing...

    What other things would you hold children to Adult Standards?

    Here`s a simple solution - stop calling it "adult standard" and "child standard".

    The difference is one of sentencing. If you think 6 years is the right sentence for premeditated murder, fine.

    But why is 6 years the right sentence if the killer is 12 at the time and 5 years is the right sentence if they`re 13 at the time and 4 years is the right sentence if they`re 14 at the time...but then life suddenly becomes the right sentence if they were 18 at the time? What about if they killed someone at 23:59 the day before their 18th birthday? Would 1 minute in jail be the right sentence?
  199. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 11:53 am
    If your 11 and can`t comprehend what death and murder are or what a gun does your messed up and need to go find a window to lick. I say hang the little f**ker instead of letting him leech off the government for the rest of his pathetic existence when he told his friend he wanted to kill her that`s what you call premeditation and would`ve been done with or without a gun.
  200. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 11:56 am
    There`s something else I`d like to point out:

    "innocent unless proven guilty" is more than just meaningless noises. I`d hope that if any of those who presume guilt ever serve on a jury they will pay some attention to the idea.

    So he is innocent. Even if he did it, right now he is innocent because he has not been tried.
  201. Profile photo of meepmaker
    meepmaker Male 30-39
    6694 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:06 pm
    Hang Him.
  202. Profile photo of ericka225
    ericka225 Female 18-29
    219 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:10 pm
    It doesn`t matter if he did it or not that is for the jury to decide that is not the issue. It would not matter if they tried him as an adult or a juvenile that would not effect whether he is found guilty or not it will only effect exactly what he is guilty of and how he will be punished for it. No we do not know the whole story so this post is based only on what i have seen if the information is not true so be it. When people insist on trying juviniles as juviniles regardless of the crime they are including all juviniles that do henus crimes and often repetedly. Do you relize that when they turn 18 they will be released from containment? Maybe they have seen the error of their ways, but maybe not. Many children get angry and throw temper tantrums and many will say i hate you or even hit you but it takes it past a childish tantrum when you decide to kill an innocent person and an unborn child in cold blood with a gun. That is an adult crime and should be treated as such.
  203. Profile photo of ericka225
    ericka225 Female 18-29
    219 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:11 pm
    If he decides to do this because of being jelous of her and her children at 12 years old then whats to say that he would not commit simmalar or worse crimes when he gets older and is set free at 18. Sure he may mature and relize the error of his ways but he then again may not. That is what you have to think about. This is but one example of what could happen when you charge a juvinile as one for such crimes. What about a violent child sex offender at 14? If they were to be charged as one and then get out in 4 years they might be inclinde to offend again and then those are lives you can never get back because you chose to improve the life of the person that took them. I think the punishment should fit the crime no exceptions.
  204. Profile photo of ericka225
    ericka225 Female 18-29
    219 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:16 pm
    And they are not going to charge him with anything juvenile or adult if they don`t have the evidence thats just what they said they had so far
  205. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:40 pm
    “It`s true that humans develop with age and that brings a better understanding of consequences and decision-making abilities, but it doesn`t occur overnight at 18. It starts at birth and can continue up until death. I`m much older than you - should we be tried under different systems for the same crime? If not, why not?

    It varied between individuals, too.”

    I agree that it doesn’t occur overnight at 18, but I highly doubt that it occurs at 11/12. Didn’t you do anything you regretted when you were 12? I know I was a raging mess of hormones and that I spent most of my time being angry or depressed. That’s not a mentally stable state. Many children of similar age go through a similar experience. Puberty is irrational hell.
  206. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:40 pm
    No, I don’t think that you and I should be tried by different standards. I think that there is simply a standard of responsible/not responsible. It takes a certain level of mental development and rationality to make the responsible demarcation, but, after that, you are just as responsible as everyone else because you are self-aware enough to take responsibility. I think our laws may even ask too much of people to set the age of responsibility at 18, but it seems to work out well enough, so I’m not going to argue. I’ll just say that Aristotle thought we couldn’t be fully responsible beings until about age 30 and neuroscience points to about age 25, with some variation from individual to individual. Admittedly, both of those exclude me from the responsible group, but I’m also a little more self-aware and morally aware than many my age.
  207. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 2:41 pm
    And I agree that it varies from individual to individual, but that it tends more towards adults being declared not responsible through some form of mental issue than it does toward children being declared responsible because they did something that people can’t wrap their mind around a child doing. People can do heinous things without being aware of what exactly it is that they’re doing. It doesn’t mean that that heinous act is an indicator of greater responsibility. I would say it tends to be an indicator of less mental stability, and therefore, less responsibility. But it is also important to try to discourage heinous activities, so some form of punishment is appropriate, so long as the criminal isn’t so far gone that it is clear he/she would never learn.
  208. Profile photo of Vindictive
    Vindictive Female 18-29
    1077 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 3:55 pm
    Hang him and his father.
  209. Profile photo of bloop_326
    bloop_326 Female 13-17
    30 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 4:43 pm
    @green_batman

    I remember regretting things from when i was 12, but i never took a shotgun and killed someone. Just saying...
  210. Profile photo of sender02
    sender02 Male 18-29
    189 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 5:34 pm
    If he`s guilty, give him a life sentence. Hell, its mercy not to give him death. No matter how old you are, you don`t accidently shotgun your dad`s girlfriend in the gut. Most if not all of the people on this site passed the age of 12 without attempting a crime that serious, much less succeding.
    If he`s innocent, the daughter should be tried as an adult for perjury. Almost sending a 12 year old to jail for life is serious business.
  211. Profile photo of whydoucare
    whydoucare Male 13-17
    33 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 5:54 pm
    Send him to the corner for 15 minutes! That should be enough.
  212. Profile photo of green_batman
    green_batman Female 18-29
    728 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 5:55 pm
    @bloop326: If you weren`t capable of proper judgement in those things that you regret, can you say that a 12-year-old has good judgement? Yes, this is more severe than the typical actions of an irrational 12-year-old, but it doesn`t mean that the 12-year-old in question has judgement any better than the typical 12-year-old.

    Think of it this way: he was probably exposed to the concept of killing things by hunting, if he had his own shot gun. So he knew how to kill, but he had the poor judgement capacity of a 12-year-old. Your typical 12-year-old doesn`t know how to kill, at least not efficiently. I would imagine that this has something to do with why more 12-year-olds don`t kill. If we as a society decided that we were going to train our children to be deadly killers, I think we would have more deaths by the hands of children when they have moments of irrationality. This is why weapons are generally things we don`t put in the hands of children, unless they are supervised.
  213. Profile photo of Bountykat
    Bountykat Female 18-29
    399 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 6:01 pm
    If he did it on purpose, DO IT. He`ll probably grow up to do it more as an adult.
  214. Profile photo of Bountykat
    Bountykat Female 18-29
    399 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 6:03 pm
    "Because he`s a child..." uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, he deliberately drating shot the pregnant lady.
  215. Profile photo of chunkymonkie
    chunkymonkie Male 13-17
    670 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 8:50 pm
    "Your typical 12-year-old doesn`t know how to kill, at least not efficiently."

    Please, he took a shotgun and SHOT HER. He knew what he was doing, an 11 year just doesn`t shoot a lady and thinks he gets a get out of jail free card.
  216. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:15 pm
    Just sell him to the medical college.
  217. Profile photo of riseplease19
    riseplease19 Male 18-29
    106 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 9:53 pm
    death sentence. eliminate the bad seeds...
  218. Profile photo of dance_freek
    dance_freek Female 13-17
    14 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 10:02 pm
    most of you guys are narrow minded...you need to look at this deeper. There are so many reasons why he did this and couldnt have thought it clearly. He knew how to handle a gun and thats it. Most kids do from hunting. He probably had no concept on what he was doing, maybe from a disability, maybe cause of his age, psychological damage?
  219. Profile photo of chunkymonkie
    chunkymonkie Male 13-17
    670 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 10:35 pm
    No, some people on iab just can`t accept the fact that an 11 year old can kill someone without being legally insane. If he hated his stepmom so much as to put a bullet in her head he should be willing to accept the consequences. Its not hard to realize that killing is illegal and that you`ll go to jail for it. I just hope that they find more evidence besides an 8 year old, it would be terrible to put an innocent kid in jail.
  220. Profile photo of britt566
    britt566 Female 18-29
    2291 posts
    January 31, 2011 at 10:40 pm
    if you`re old enough to take a gun and kill someone and KNOW THAT YOU ARE KILLING SOMEONE then you are most definitely old enough to be tried as an adult.
  221. Profile photo of NOCASH
    NOCASH Male 18-29
    423 posts
    February 1, 2011 at 7:53 am
    Guns are the problem, without them you silly people wouldn`t have to shoot each other. You have an army for a reason as well as police, it is far too easy in these instances for a child to get a hold of a gun do horrible things like this.
  222. Profile photo of hopeislost
    hopeislost Male 30-39
    196 posts
    February 1, 2011 at 2:25 pm
    Give me a f@#$ing break. You`re g##damn right he knew what he was doing. If you think that this little bastard didn`t know what the f@#$ he was doing, you`re either stupid or incredibly naive. Why wasn`t the gun locked up properly? How did the little prick have such easy access to a shotgun? This world is going to s@#t. Lock him the f### up.
  223. Profile photo of hopeislost
    hopeislost Male 30-39
    196 posts
    February 1, 2011 at 2:26 pm
    And what`s worse, CNN puts these cutesy f@#$ing photos of the little prick on tv, but not the mugshot...subliminally trying to convince us that trying him as an adult is wrong...f@#$ you CNN!
  224. Profile photo of Zombiesrule8
    Zombiesrule8 Male 18-29
    4 posts
    February 1, 2011 at 3:51 pm
    I wonder how innocent that mother was or the daughter makes me curious. Everyone always sees it from the victims side. Not me. I`m always curious whether they should`ve died or not. Is that bad?
  225. Profile photo of lee-schizo
    lee-schizo Female 18-29
    296 posts
    February 1, 2011 at 10:01 pm
    NO the kid probably knew that he was killing her i don`t think he FULLY understood she died her life ended. YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK YOU SHOULD BE A BETTER PARENT AND LOCK UP YOUR GUNS AND KEEP THEM ON KEY. probly wouldn`t had happened if dada was smarter.
  226. Profile photo of mithraela
    mithraela Female 18-29
    535 posts
    February 2, 2011 at 1:25 am
    Ignorant fools think removing guns would stop murders. If this kid really wanted her dead he would have used anything. In New York State it is even illegal to carry an 18 inch long stick. (it was the last time I checked the laws anyway.) It`s because they know that people will kill with anything. Sadly, they think making sticks illegal will stop murders. All sorts of knives are illegal too, even though a kitchen knife serves pretty well for a vast amount of murders that happen. Doesn`t seem any different than what they think the regulation of guns will do. Nothing. I hate gun crime as much as I would hate to be shot, but to blame the crime on the idea that the kid had access to a gun is stupid. I have been shot at in two drive by shootings, and the weapon was a phucking nail gun. Thankfully nail guns are about as accurate as peoples` thoughts concerning what will curtail violent crime. If someone wants you dead bad enough they will be creative. killers are smarter than lawmakers.
  227. Profile photo of NOCASH
    NOCASH Male 18-29
    423 posts
    February 2, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    Mithraela, do some research yourself and you will see firearms are the most common weapon used in murder incidents in the USA. Firearms led the way with close to 15,000 murders in 2007, next on the list were knives or cutting instruments with close to 1800 murders. It`s quite obvious that removing firearms from the public would not stop murder altogether but it would greatly reduce the number.
  228. Profile photo of simmerdown
    simmerdown Female 18-29
    62 posts
    February 3, 2011 at 5:42 am
    @mithraela
    The problem with guns is that they make murdering someone far easier. With a knife the victim not only has more of a chance to defend themselves, but it`s a more personal and less distancing method of execution and therefore, harder for most people to bring themselves to do. Besides you`ve kind of contradicted your own argument by saying you were shot at with a nail gun, but weren`t harmed becuase they`re not as accurate. You had a higher chance of survival because a real gun wasn`t used. What the kid did was wrong. No doubt about that, but I wonder if he would`ve been able to pull off murder if he`d only had a knife.
  229. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    February 3, 2011 at 8:43 am
    premeditated? maybe, but prove it. seems more like an act of pasion to me. try him as an adult, but you will find that he couldn`t even try to hide cover up the scene. manslaughter at the most. kid will be MAX 22-27 by the time he is released in such a case.
  230. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    February 3, 2011 at 8:48 am

    There also seems cause to make a case for neglegance. wtf is a 12 yr old doing with a shotgun?! this should also soften the sentencing of the lil shyte.
  231. Profile photo of tuapui
    tuapui Male 18-29
    94 posts
    February 5, 2011 at 10:33 am
    The kid is a result of bad parenting and negligence, not given proper guidance, and unable to control emotions and judgement, or understand morality.

    The court of law putting a 12 year old on trial as an adult is irresponsible. I know there are still gray areas in 100 year old judicial systems but this is insane.

    I say the parent should be responsible for the child`s offence. They should be punished together.

    And I agree that removing guns would reduce murders. And it would make the intent to kill alot clearer. You can impulsively/accidentally shoot a person to death, but it takes intent and fearlessness to stab a person to death. The idea is to be able to spot the difference between accidental and intentional.
  232. Profile photo of Linkenberger
    Linkenberger Male 18-29
    1164 posts
    February 5, 2011 at 11:42 am
    I say try him as an adult, tell him he`s going to jail for the rest of his life, scare the finger-licking drat out of him, then let him out in a few years. Just send him to a prison where he`s not gonna get raped, and he should buck up just fine. Maybe a little counselling afterwards, some therapy during, oh yeah.
  233. Profile photo of tika12001
    tika12001 Female 18-29
    324 posts
    March 4, 2011 at 3:32 am
    Wow, the gun laws in America need to be seriously rethought. Get them out of suburban homes and maybe some of these tragedies can be prevented! As for the boy, if he did do it, he`s certainly old enough to be aware of what he was doing. I remember being 11 or 12 and knowing the difference between right and wrong, I`m betting he knows it too.

Leave a Reply