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Category: Misc
Date: 01/08/11 02:40 PM

309 Responses to Fancy`s Book Club: Coming Out Straight [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of HOBYandy
    HOBYandy Male 18-29
    3060 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:41 pm
    Link: Fancy`s Book Club: Coming Out Straight - We`ll just file this one under Fiction.
  2. Profile photo of JumboCookie
    JumboCookie Male 18-29
    1244 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:46 pm
    SOMEONE YOU KNOW NEEDS THIS BOOK! lol
  3. Profile photo of shaboinkin
    shaboinkin Male 18-29
    456 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:51 pm
    I think some "lols" are in order
  4. Profile photo of kralmir
    kralmir Male 18-29
    351 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    ....

    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

    thats a gay couple on the cover. seems the healing part failed since they are holding eachother and are quite happy.
  5. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9308 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:54 pm
    It`s one of five in a series. The next book is called:

    "Coming out White: Understanding and Healing Africans"
  6. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:55 pm
    I don`t think the idea of coming out as straight is silly, but healing homosexuaity is definitely stupid.
  7. Profile photo of quick1dunkno
    quick1dunkno Male 18-29
    99 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:58 pm
    fiction? u mad? being gay is a mental thing.. please dont tell me your`e another fairy that thinks its " genes" LOOL...
  8. Profile photo of Hawcon
    Hawcon Male 18-29
    44 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:59 pm
    I`d buy it... if it contained the /s/ board on 4chan to point out what homosexuals are missing out
  9. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8306 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 2:59 pm
    I`ve got News for her... hubby`s not `healed` yet. I can tell by the pixels and the `do I really have to touch you in the photo?` look.
  10. Profile photo of sawdusty
    sawdusty Male 40-49
    491 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:12 pm
    But what if your just a little twisted?
  11. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:15 pm
    You guys may have said already but, isn`t that a transsexual on the right?

    I`ll guess there`s a chapter on having things re-attached...


  12. Profile photo of the_phantom
    the_phantom Male 18-29
    510 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:16 pm
    i believe strongly that genes play a role in sexuality, not a definite decision but more of a guiding way. i have proof of this.

    i am an identical twin. me and my brother dont spend much time together and we dont discuss our sexuality with eachother (too awkward). we have fallen for the same women more than 5 times and we recently discovered (by my walkign in on him while `working`) that we enjoy the same sexual fetishes, despite never bringing ti up to one another.

    this cant just be a coincedence. im not saying that genes are everything, but definitely a large contributor on how LIKELY you are to be gay.
  13. Profile photo of MrYouKnow
    MrYouKnow Male 13-17
    1081 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:19 pm
    @quick1dunkno

    What goes on in the brain is influenced by genes.
  14. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9308 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:26 pm
    To all the straight guys in here who think homosexuality is a choice:

    I want you to make the choice to get down on your knees and LOVE my dick. Not just force yourself to suck it with tears in your eyes, I want you to LOVE my dick. Love it. Have a burning passion for getting me off.

    And no sneaking bi guys in to make your argument. I want the most heterosexual, breast-banging, football-humping, monster-truck-driving, beer-guzzling straight man to make the CHOICE of loving MY dick.

    If it`s all a mental thing then you shouldn`t have a problem with pulling my pants off with your teeth.
  15. Profile photo of TopperHey
    TopperHey Male 18-29
    1930 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:31 pm
    @Nidonemo: lol. good point, well made.
  16. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:35 pm
    meh...
  17. Profile photo of MissTokyo
    MissTokyo Female 18-29
    82 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:48 pm
    Bravo Nidonemo!
  18. Profile photo of quick1dunkno
    quick1dunkno Male 18-29
    99 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:49 pm
    NO .. being gay is NOT influenced by your asswiping genes..

    there is NO evidence to this..
    the stupid doctors at american psychiartrist association say there is no psycological proof either.. which is rooster and bull

    its a funny coincidence tho that homosexuality is wide spread in countries like america but countries like russia , you hardly ever hear about it? .. SOCIETY and your mind is the reason why you turn gay..theres a whole roostertail of reasons why people turn gay
    your proof that gayness is a mental thing - prison inmates , they can rape a man yet still be attracted to women- why? well in there case they were just desperate lol..
  19. Profile photo of quick1dunkno
    quick1dunkno Male 18-29
    99 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:52 pm
    @nidemo.. dumb gay retard.. does being homo make you lose intelligence too?
    its not as simple as just pressurising sum1 to turn gay :/
  20. Profile photo of Norsak
    Norsak Male 18-29
    161 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 3:59 pm
    Nidonemo, you`re my favorite.
  21. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:12 pm
    Congratulations, quick1dunkno, you are a total douche nozzle.
  22. Profile photo of osirisascend
    osirisascend Male 40-49
    3045 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:20 pm
    @ Nido: Awesome as always.
  23. Profile photo of kralmir
    kralmir Male 18-29
    351 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:23 pm
    Nidonemo,

    i ponder a lot of things and have tried what you said. and i can honestly say i would sooner kill every man alive and cut off my own dick(to be sure:P) then i would suck a dick, ever. then i pondered if i could somehow change that, and really no, never, nada, zip, nein, nikad, nooit, *enter japanese translation of never here*, just no. i dont know what part genes play but i do know that change is not possible if you are to far into gay or not gay.
  24. Profile photo of osirisascend
    osirisascend Male 40-49
    3045 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:24 pm
    I sense BanHammer in quick1dunkno`s future.
  25. Profile photo of Hiromi
    Hiromi Female 18-29
    1149 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:28 pm
    Nidonemo, I give you the ultra super sticker of approval.
  26. Profile photo of uunxx
    uunxx Male 30-39
    120 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:33 pm
    @quick1dunkno: you have no idea about countries like Russia, most of show business here is gay like your face.
  27. Profile photo of TheSharpest
    TheSharpest Male 18-29
    1767 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    Actually quikdunko, there is evidence that at least part of one`s sexuality is determined by nature, there are several morphologically different structures in the nervous system between homosexuals and heterosexuals of any gender. It is much more complicated than that but evidence is pretty strong in that nature does play a role in determining your sexuality. And even if it didn`t, you have no right to be a douche to those people.
  28. Profile photo of TheSharpest
    TheSharpest Male 18-29
    1767 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:41 pm
    "its not as simple as just pressurising sum1 to turn gay :/"

    That was kinda his point, how goddamn stupid can you be?
  29. Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:44 pm
    "there is NO evidence to this.. "
    Actually, there is.
    In fact, you can cross reference
    homosexual, with twin
    and come up with a very nice imbalance relating left-handedness against right-handedness which does then imply a physical influence on sexual preference.
  30. Profile photo of fivezones
    fivezones Male 40-49
    1021 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:47 pm
    quick1dunkno comments go against what many believe but to suggest a banhammer sounds like big brother.

    It`s always the liberals that resort to facism while calling everyone else a facist
  31. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4682 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:49 pm
    You can tell this guy was molested as a kid.

    Oh wait, he actually was.
  32. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4682 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:51 pm
    @fivezones- If he presented his opinions respectfully and logically then I`d understand, but he`s just being an non-nice individual.

    And being an non-nice individual is a bannable offense here on the INTERNET!
  33. Profile photo of robotobunneh
    robotobunneh Female 18-29
    265 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:52 pm
    @fivezones: Really? I could have sworn I`ve seen conservatives doing THE SAME DAMN THING.

    Crazies are crazies, no matter what side of the political spectrum they fall on :)
  34. Profile photo of robotobunneh
    robotobunneh Female 18-29
    265 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 4:54 pm
    @gorgack2000: I totally read "bannable" as "bananable". Both work, I guess.
  35. Profile photo of s0rd3dvis1on
    s0rd3dvis1on Male 18-29
    2388 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:02 pm
    homosexuality is a choice
  36. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:03 pm
    Nidonemo, allow me the honor of being your echo from across the bridge.

    Seriously people, if you have questions about this, try this little exercise. Get yourself a large, heavy mirror and some sticky notes. Write "Exibit A" on a note and facepalm yourself the hardest you most possibly can. When you come back from your blackout, look into the mirror.

    If you still don`t get it even after this, kindly beat yourself with said mirror repeatedly until it sinks in.
  37. Profile photo of s0rd3dvis1on
    s0rd3dvis1on Male 18-29
    2388 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:05 pm
    nidonemo`s post has actually convinced me otherwise.

    All your posts have been flaming recently (no pun)
  38. Profile photo of GasMaskKid
    GasMaskKid Male 18-29
    694 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:09 pm
    "Seriously people, if you have questions about this, try this little exercise. Get yourself a large, heavy mirror and some sticky notes. Write "Exibit A" on a note and facepalm yourself the hardest you most possibly can. When you come back from your blackout, look into the mirror. If you still don`t get it even after this, kindly beat yourself with said mirror repeatedly until it sinks in."

    I feel like I`m missing something obvious. I don`t get it.
  39. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:11 pm
    s0rd3dvis1on

    "homosexuality is a choice"

    You are lying about other people`s lives. Homosexuality is exactly as much a choice a heterosexuality is.

    quick1dunkno

    You are wrong. There are multiple studies indicating biological basis for sexual orientation, indicating two, at least, causes for homosexuality - a genetic basis, and a natal hormonal basis. There is a gene site that is strongly linked to homosexuality in males, a gene received from one`s mother. And men who have older brothers are more likely to be gay, with the likelihood increasing with the number of older brothers.

    Using oppressive, homophobic countries to prove that homosexuality is chosen and the result of liberalism or something, is irrational. Homosexuals are found in every culture, in every time period.

    Bigotry though is chosen, and it is the result of social influences, rather than genes or exposure to hormones in the womb.
  40. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:13 pm
    s0rd3dvis1on
    "nidonemo`s post has actually convinced me otherwise. "

    But you`ve already lied about the lives of millions of people, including myself and my partner and my friends, so your word is worthless.
  41. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:15 pm
    "Cohen has said, "If someone wants to live a gay life, that needs to be respected. If someone wants to change and come out straight, that too needs to be respected. Let us practice true tolerance, real diversity, and equality for all."". Quote from another of his books.. (According to wikipedia).. While his theories may be flawed, he doesn`t seem to be as much of an immoral non-nice individual as many of the other biblewaving gaybashers out there.?
  42. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:16 pm


    "Now approved for treating homosexuality."
  43. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:18 pm
    @Heureux: Stop feeding the trolls please..
  44. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:22 pm
    Forward by Dr. Laura Schlessinger? Great way to destroy all credibility before you even get to the title of the book.
  45. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:24 pm
    Everyone please put your food away.

  46. Profile photo of BenTheBug
    BenTheBug Male 18-29
    1195 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:41 pm
    The perfect gift.
  47. Profile photo of kralmir
    kralmir Male 18-29
    351 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:43 pm
    briliant post cajun247:D
  48. Profile photo of pocketmoron
    pocketmoron Male 18-29
    191 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 5:53 pm
    F*ck that sh*t
  49. Profile photo of SlothOfDoom
    SlothOfDoom Male 30-39
    2033 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 6:08 pm
    I usually go in straight, but come out floppy. Not sure what this book is talking about at all.
  50. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 6:27 pm
    So let me fet this straight!? The chick on the book cover is a Ladyboy coming to terms on being honest with the spouse. Who was deluded from a picture bride agency?
  51. Profile photo of Swaywithme
    Swaywithme Female 18-29
    3696 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 6:33 pm
    That is his wife- Can`t you tell by the intimate way he is holding her?




    </sarcasm>
  52. Profile photo of Namikaze
    Namikaze Male 18-29
    222 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 6:38 pm
    Read book, then comment on it please.
  53. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 6:41 pm
    studies show that within 5 years of being "cured" of homosexuality, he`ll be sucking c... I mean he`ll be a practicing homosexual again.

  54. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 6:43 pm
    @Namikaze
  55. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 6:45 pm
    1. That guy is SO gay. I hope he`s happy though...

    2. Why is everyone so hell bent on harnessing sexuality? I get this from both my straight and gay friends a lot. There`s no need to try to understand every little bit about your own or others sexuality. Is it going to make you feel better to know that I`m bi because of ________ reason? Probably not.
    Sexuality is an invisible force. It`s mysterious and embarrassing and raunchy and pure and colorful and always shifting. It`s going to do what it wants to do even if you try to stop it. So what I`m saying is... enjoy the ride, people :)
  56. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 7:57 pm
    I personally believe that homosexuality is a choice. It is safe to say that we as human beings have sexual desires right? I have had "sexual" feelings for both men and women. But I choose to be sexually active with men only because of my faith (and no I know I`m not a perfect Christian but faith is faith). To me just because I had a sexual fantasy about a woman doesn`t mean I should act out on it. I think what separates heterosexuality from homosexuality is when a person acts out on those sexual desires or lustful thoughts. I could be wrong, I might be right all I do know is that when it comes down to it everyone is responsible for their own person and what they do with their own lives.

    As far as the trolling (on both ends) come on people is it really necessary?
  57. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 8:18 pm
    @Satkela responds:
    As far as the trolling (on both ends) come on people is it really necessary?

    handys003 replies:
    100% absolutely.
  58. Profile photo of freddyferret
    freddyferret Male 40-49
    11741 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 8:30 pm
    It`s good to know that even total douchebag morons aren`t illiterate. They`re just douchebag morons.
  59. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 8:34 pm
    @handy:
    Lol I guess the discussion wouldn`t be as entertaining huh :p
  60. Profile photo of dielaughing
    dielaughing Female 13-17
    129 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 8:41 pm
    I don`t think it`s a choice, but I don`t think it`s a disease either. Maybe a little bit of homosexuality is in all of us? I don`t know I`m just throwing things out there but reguardless of where you stand have some respect for others.
  61. Profile photo of s0rd3dvis1on
    s0rd3dvis1on Male 18-29
    2388 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 8:49 pm
    I just noticed that the woman on the book looks like his mother. I think someoneneeds to go back to re-straightucation camp
  62. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 8:58 pm
    I have had "sexual" feelings for both men and women

    You made a choice to pick one over the other when you had feelings for both. What about those that don`t have those feelings towards women? Or that have a very minor, rare feeling towards women? Also vice versa for lesbians.
  63. Profile photo of noxert323
    noxert323 Male 18-29
    226 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 9:07 pm
    @dielaughing

    it isn`t uncommon for men to have other men sexually and still not be considered homosexual, in other cultures of course.

    Sexuality isn`t black and white like our society attempts to paint it. I believe it`s just a mess of grey area`s. if you have an urge for same sex relations, do it. it doesn`t change who you are or what you want from life.
  64. Profile photo of noxert323
    noxert323 Male 18-29
    226 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 9:07 pm
    I feel like I made grammatical errors
    SUE ME IAB!
  65. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 9:36 pm
    Satkela

    "I personally believe that homosexuality is a choice."
    Then you are trolling, because gays and lesbians have made it clear, we did not chose to be homosexuals. You are calling us liars about our own lives.
    "I have had "sexual" feelings for both men and women."
    So you are bisexual, not everyone is. Your experience does not dictate mine, nor does it invalidate mine. For you to say "since I chose which gender to have sex with, everyone does" is is irrational. I have no sexual interesting in the opposite gender, so, should I assume that you are lying about being atracted to men? No. I should trust your testimony about your life, and you should trust homosexuals when they testify about their lives.


  66. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 9:41 pm
    Satkela

    "I think what separates heterosexuality from homosexuality is when a person acts out on those sexual desires or lustful thoughts."

    So, what, everyone is really homosexual until they chose toa ct on their lustful thoughts for the opposite sex?

    You don`t get it. Homosexuality is as innate as heterosexuality, and homosexuals are still homosexuals even if they are virgins, or abstain from sex. Sexual orienation is not created by sexual activity, it exists whether or not people have sex. Virgins have a sexual orientation, people who are celibate for any reason, still have a sexual orientation. Go with out sex for a month, 6 months, a year, you are still heterosexual, or bisexual, or homosexual.
  67. Profile photo of Pravda7
    Pravda7 Female 18-29
    290 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 9:44 pm
    Lol. My parents made me read this when I came out at 16. Needless to say... it didn`t work lol.
  68. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 9:50 pm
    Kain1

    Actually, he`s a pretty nasty person. He`s been stirring up hate in South Africa:
    http://tinyurl.com/3x59twh

    Who is Richard Cohen? He is a discredited psychotherapist. ” The infamous and controversial cuddling “therapist” who cradles his clients in his lap. It had put out a release specifically retracting its endorsement of Cohen after numerous media appearances demonstrating his bizarre techniques”

    He`s tied to the `death penalty for gays` bill in Uganda.
    This is relevant too:
    http://tinyurl.com/37qctxz

    Richard Cohen was expelled by his professional association, The American Counseling Association, on 3/23/2002 for multiple ethics violations.

    Ex-gay therapy is destructive, known to inflict serious harm on the patients, and to drive many to suicide. It is
  69. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 10:32 pm
    It`s one of five in a series. The next book is called: "Coming out White: Understanding and Healing Africans"

    To all the straight guys in here who think homosexuality is a choice:

    I want you to make the choice to get down on your knees and LOVE my dick. Not just force yourself to suck it with tears in your eyes, I want you to LOVE my dick. Love it. Have a burning passion for getting me off.

    And no sneaking bi guys in to make your argument. I want the most heterosexual, breast-banging, football-humping, monster-truck-driving, beer-guzzling straight man to make the CHOICE of loving MY dick.

    If it`s all a mental thing then you shouldn`t have a problem with pulling my pants off with your teeth.
    Nido, quote of the year. Hell, I`d suck your dick. Don`t get me wrong, I`d find it nasty, but I still would, just because you`re that f*cking awesome. Way to lay the smack-down, brother.
  70. Profile photo of rainbowfarts
    rainbowfarts Female 18-29
    798 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 10:39 pm
    So a mail order bride cures homo? Hmm...
  71. Profile photo of yellowsquare
    yellowsquare Female 18-29
    1545 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 10:58 pm
    While I believe that being homosexual is not a choice (and my initial response to this post was disgust), isn`t it a person`s right to change their circumstances if they so choose?

    If a person is homosexual and doesn`t want to be that way (for whatever reason) isn`t it their right to read this book and become who they want to be?

    I don`t like this book, and Dr. Schlessinger makes me sick, but this book has every right to exist for those who decide they want to change.
  72. Profile photo of daniellee_x
    daniellee_x Female 18-29
    451 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 11:13 pm
    while i agree you don`t choose to be gay, not even girls love sucking dick. so you may need a better argument for that one.
  73. Profile photo of BrodyBoy1993
    BrodyBoy1993 Male 13-17
    102 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 11:17 pm
    Nidonemo... You just became my hero. I feel like I should keep a copy of that just to rant at ignorant straight guys so your words becomes internationally-recognised. You are a brilliant person, and I love you. And so will my boyfriend once he reads it.
  74. Profile photo of Oldfrt
    Oldfrt Male 50-59
    750 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 11:43 pm
    I don`t know if homosexuality is a choice or not, and I really don`t care. But there are some people who claim to be "reformed homosexuals". So my question is: why does there have to be one answer for everyone? Maybe for some people it`s a choice, others not so much.
  75. Profile photo of gbrzeatetee
    gbrzeatetee Male 30-39
    174 posts
    January 8, 2011 at 11:55 pm
    People who say that sexual orientation isn`t a choice are pussies. Of course it`s a choice. You can choose to do chicks, do guys, do both or any combination and it`s nobody`s f#cking business.
  76. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 12:10 am
    @Heureux: You misread what I posted. I said I "personally" believe it to be a choice because of my own experience. How is it trolling if I`m speaking for myself? I`m not saying that it applies to everyone else. And you saying that "because gays and lesbians have made it clear, we did not chose to be homosexuals" is not completely the truth. You can`t generalize everyone else`s beliefs based upon your own. My best friend is gay and he acknowledges that he chooses to be gay.

    The whole point of me saying "I think..." means that it is my own opinion. I`m not on here saying "I`m right and everyone else is wrong because they don`t agree with me". I consider myself heterosexual because I have only had sexual contact with men only. You may think that orientation doesn`t require actual physical contact I beg to differ. On that particular note I say we should agree to disagree. :)
  77. Profile photo of Locke357
    Locke357 Male 18-29
    128 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 12:18 am
    Sexuality, like anything in life, isn`t defined in black and white, but in shades of gray
  78. Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 12:28 am
    For me my sexuality wasn`t a choice, as I can think back all the way to age 7 and having thoughts that define my sexuality quite well. However, I do believe some people do make the choice to be gay or straight, like a large portion of bisexuals OR people who might feel rejected by the opposite (or like) gender. But those are just my opinions. Some people, a choice. Others, not so much.
  79. Profile photo of smidge47
    smidge47 Female 18-29
    39 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:06 am
    Why on earth would anyone CHOOSE to be homosexual, when that often leads to a life of marginality, rejection, shame and self-hatred? Use some sense.

    Note: I am aware not all gay people are marginalised, rejected, or filled with shame and self-hatred. But the coming out process is one that often leads to these things happening.
  80. Profile photo of banur
    banur Male 18-29
    250 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 2:51 am
    Sexuality, like anything in life, isn`t defined in black and white, but in shades of gay

    *fixed ;P
  81. Profile photo of Kain1
    Kain1 Male 18-29
    1473 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 2:57 am
    @Heureux: I stand corrected.. He most certainly seems to be a dirtbg.. I apologize for suggesting otherwise.. i forgot to take into consideration that dirtbgs lie :S..

    @Satkela: what you are describing is slight bi-curious tendencies.. not gayness.. gay people only (or predominantly at least) want to bang people of the same sex.. to them, the only options are sexy-times or abstinence.. i vote for sexy-times btw ! ;)
  82. Profile photo of Flibmeister
    Flibmeister Female 18-29
    833 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:01 am
    applauds Locke357.
  83. Profile photo of Owanie
    Owanie Male 18-29
    240 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:25 am
    A complaint on the infamous Dr. Laura.
  84. Profile photo of quick1dunkno
    quick1dunkno Male 18-29
    99 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:52 am
    drat me... your all so damn funny..
    ffs there is 0 evidence for homo-sexual being a genetic thing..
    all the so called evidence is rooster and bull..

    my analogy that homo-sexuality is less in countries that do not tolerate homo-sexuality does indeed prove me right.

    just because its not tolerated doesnt mean that sum poor soul doesnt fall prey to sum complicated " gay " trap and decides to turn gay..

    most faggots have sum odd childhood history etc.

    most of you are athiests here neways , the devils have a large hand in this .. ( in b4 mockery)

    and btw LOL what makes ne of you think i care about gettin banned...

  85. Profile photo of quick1dunkno
    quick1dunkno Male 18-29
    99 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:55 am
    For me my sexuality wasn`t a choice, as I can think back all the way to age 7 and having thoughts that define my sexuality quite well. However, I do believe some people do make the choice to be gay or straight, like a large portion of bisexuals OR people who might feel rejected by the opposite (or like) gender. But those are just my opinions. Some people, a choice. Others, not so much.

    niguh.. you`ve gone thru sum dratED up shiz in your childhood to be thinking u were gay since then... stop repressing your memories , did your older cousins ever touch you? LOL
  86. Profile photo of apk892
    apk892 Male 13-17
    183 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 5:33 am
    quick1dunkno

    ive got no problem with gay people and neither do my friends. do you know what we tend to think about people as anti-gay as you (and have so far been right every time)? That theyre gay and just trying to hide it. are you totally sure that you arent gay? go look at a picture of a dick and let us know if you get hard or not. or just take nidonemo`s advice. if you can do that then yeah, being gay is a choice. go ahead and prove us wrong
  87. Profile photo of bastrid
    bastrid Female 30-39
    47 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 5:41 am
    quick1dunkno

    The word is spelled some not sum.
    Sum is defined as `the aggregate of two or more numbers, magnitudes, quantities, or particulars as determined by or as if by the mathematical process of addition...
  88. Profile photo of wyngit
    wyngit Male 18-29
    153 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 6:18 am
    quick1dunkno
    Male, 18-29, Europe
    "For me my sexuality wasn`t a choice, as I can think back all the way to age 7 and having thoughts that define my sexuality quite well."

    So you fantasized about chickens?
  89. Profile photo of AmberCherry
    AmberCherry Female 18-29
    98 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 6:49 am
    Is it just me or has IAB comments gotten trolloliolio lately?
  90. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:22 am
    Nido: I find it remarkable that you would choose a "heterosexual, breast-banging, football-humping, monster-truck-driving, beer-guzzling straight man" to suck your dick.

    I find it hard to believe that you wouldn`t prefer a big breasted, voluptuous, red lipsticked, high heeled, long haired blond straight female to do that for you.

    That you would prefer this:


    Over this:

    You must be mental.
  91. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:30 am
    CrakrJak should be banned.

    Yellowsquare

    This is not about rights. If you don`t like that the sun rises in the west, is it your right to change the rotation of the earth? The fact is, sexual orientation is not changeable, and people claim that gays can be made straight in order to justify discrimination. See, the half of the Cohen`s position that is missing is "since homosexuals can be changed into heterosexuals, it is ok to discriminate against them, even execute people who refuse to change`.

    Ex-gay crap is about coercing people by telling lies about their lives.

    gbrzeatetee

    You are lying about other people`s lives.
  92. Profile photo of TheShgn2
    TheShgn2 Male 13-17
    626 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:31 am
    You can`t fix being gay because there really isn`t anything wrong with it. Some guy 2000 years ago said he didn`t like gay people, and then started a religion. And anyone who says it`s not natural: You`ve never heard of gay animals?
  93. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:32 am
    Yellowsquare- so should we allow these equally ridiculous, insulting, and quite possibly self harming titles to exist as well?

    How not to be Black/Asian/Romanian Gypsy/STRAIGHT anymore ect.ect.

    Get real, sexual orientation, for gays and straights, is not negotiable. You have a better chance of me growing wings from my back and breathing fire than you have of "turning" me lesbian.
  94. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:33 am
    homo-sexuality is less in countries that do not tolerate homo-sexuality does indeed prove me right.

    While you could be right, I think it more likely that the gays in those countries are just in closets and not known to the public. How can you count something you can`t see?
  95. Profile photo of caleb20
    caleb20 Male 18-29
    6 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:35 am
    Well, crakrJack has everything to be an homophobe : American, old, living in the bible belt...
  96. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:37 am
    "People who say that sexual orientation isn`t a choice are pussies. Of course it`s a choice."

    I`m about to say this assuming you`re straight. do you like titties? did you always like titties, or did you just wake up one morning and decide to start liking them?

    there you go. gay people don`t choose their orientation any more than straight people do. you`re born being attracted to one sex or the other, you don`t wake up one morning and decide which one you`d prefer.
  97. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:38 am
    Heureux: It is changeable and thousands have made that change. The fact is there are various degrees of sexual orientation from fully straight, slightly bi, bisexual, and fully gay means a choice is involved. Desire and disgust can be manipulated, This is a well known fact.
  98. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:40 am
    *Correction

    It`s not as though heterosexism is strictly an American problem.
  99. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:43 am
    Crakr, we`ve been over this before, these fraudulent faith based loonies have exactly ZERO objectively verifiable evidence, they won`t even keep their experiments on paper and subject them to peer review in the non faith based loony scientific community. They have ZERO proof or credibility.

    And you should be appalled at these brain washed lowlifes.
  100. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:51 am
    QueenZira: The same could be said of alcohol and drug rehabilitation, it doesn`t always work and the same approach doesn`t work for everyone.

    If people have the desire to change back to straight, then who are you to tell them not too ?
  101. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:54 am
    You know, when I was little I always wanted to be a wolf (I was a weird kid) and so I pretended to be a wolf in play all the time. But I could and can never be a wolf, and that is the difference between me and these sad cases. I am at peace with Objective Reality.

    As for this Alcoholism trope once again. When did I start using the drug STRAIGHT? And can I be "cured" without ripping soul from body?
  102. Profile photo of ohplease
    ohplease Male 50-59
    567 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:55 am
    Nidonemo for the win! "Coming out White: Understanding and Healing Africans" ahhahaha, and the next post, well put, you smoked the trolls!
  103. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:09 am
    @ Crakr:

    you can`t be either slightly bi, fully bi, slightly gay, or fully gay. you`re either straight, bisexual, or gay. if you like one more than the other but you STILL like both, you`re bi.

    it`s not a choice, and the scientific community has pretty much agreed on that.

    what you`re saying is not *fact* because it is open to interpretation. facts leave no room for argument and debate.
  104. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:23 am
    QueenZira: People create their own reality, they are influenced by events, people and circumstances in their life but they still make choices. Sometimes those same people realize they made bad choices and want to create a new reality for themselves. What you are saying "That it`s not changeable" is to condemn people, that want to change, to failure before they even begin.
  105. Profile photo of KPres
    KPres Male 30-39
    309 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:31 am
    "You know, when I was little I always wanted to be a wolf (I was a weird kid) and so I pretended to be a wolf in play all the time. But I could and can never be a wolf, and that is the difference between me and these sad cases. I am at peace with Objective Reality."

    The difference is that being a wolf is a biological phenomenon, being gay is a psychological phenomenon. The fact that SOME gay people have become straight shows that it`s an alterable thing, which is not the same as saying it`s a choice.
  106. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:32 am
    If it was a choice, like favorite Ice cream flavor, then one would simply choose and be done with it. This is not a superficial choice like Ice cream.

    No, I understand that they are fleecing scared, hurting, vulnerable people. *They* condemn them right out of the gate by completely bypassing current scientific consensus, insisting that something is wrong with them just because they are not heterosexual.

    When these craven, underhanded, downright evil people have the courage of conviction to put their "science" out for the rest of the world to see and be amazed by, then I`ll consider it.

    When these practices no longer leave broken, suffering people behind.
  107. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:34 am
    Kpres- psychology is biology in mini. And there is NO PROOF of any discernible change, period.
  108. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3359 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:35 am
    Crakr said: "If people have the desire to change back to straight, then who are you to tell them not too ?"

    That "desire" probably comes from years of people like yourself constantly bashing them.
  109. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:37 am
    @ Queen Zira:

    sing it, girl!! i agree with you 100%!
  110. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:45 am
    Ewww, I agree with Crakr a little bit.
    PSYCHGEEK, when he says that sexuality is more like a spectrum than just 3 separate definitions, he`s right.
    I mean, the rest he says is mostly bullpoo, but he`s right there.
    As a psychologist I would`ve thought you`d know this. TRy looking up the Kinsey scale.
  111. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:47 am
    Kinsey is somewhere out of the 40`s, the Venn diagram model is what I subscribe to.
  112. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:48 am
    ;D PsychGeek, thanks!
  113. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:50 am
    @ taintedeity:

    has the Kinsey scale been proven? nope, not really. the Kinsey scale is one man`s theory on sexuality, but not everyone subscribes to it or believes it. I agree with QueenZira, it`s a Venn diagram. if you`re a male and you truly believe you should have been a female, then biologically you`re gay if you`re attracted to men, but psychologically she`d be straight. it`s not so much a matter of degree as it is who the person believes himself to be and who he is biologically..if that makes sense lol.

    the Kinsey Scale is a little outdated, other theories and studies are coming out which never even mention the scale, and which have discredited it.
  114. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:51 am
    See, I read about the Kinset model and then shortly decided that I don`t give a poo about the labels or specific definitions. I think it`s called the `Whatever the drat you like` model. ;P
    Why find a strict name and definition for your sexuality? Just love who you love and drat who you want to drat. Don`t worry about the names of things. You`re more than just a word.
  115. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:52 am
    in the end however, we`re going to argue in circles because sexuality is one of those things that we just don`t know enough about to say 100% it`s this vs. that. as of right now, we`re still basing everything on personal experience and opinion. so eh, believe what you will.

    maybe i prefer the Venn diagram because that makes it easier for me to make sense of the world. maybe you prefer to believe in the Kinsey scale because you don`t want everything to be black and white, but a matter of degrees. whatever our reasons are for believing what we do, it`s impossible to say right now that any one of us is completely right.
  116. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:52 am
    See, I don`t really like this Venn diagram because it doesn`t take into account transfolk, agendered, bigendered or asexuals.
  117. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:53 am
    @ tainteddeity:

    you`d be a pansexual ;)
  118. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:54 am
    Well, first you have to understand that sexual orientation is not gender identity. They`re two separate things.
  119. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:54 am
    Do you want to give that comment some context?
  120. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:54 am
    @ taintedeity:

    how can you be so sure those labels exist? you`re the one saying be whatever you want, yet you diss the Venn diagram because it doesn`t include certain labels :p
  121. Profile photo of KPres
    KPres Male 30-39
    309 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:54 am
    "Kpres- psychology is biology in mini."

    Not exactly true. Psychological phenomena can be explained in biological terms, and are often influenced by that as well. However, psychology is generally thought of as the collection of beliefs and experiences that influence personality.

    "If it was a choice, like favorite Ice cream flavor, then one would simply choose and be done with it. This is not a superficial choice like Ice cream. "

    It`s not a choice like that. It`s more like this: I`m afraid of snakes. I can`t explain why, I just am. Nevertheless, I`ve seen people who have overcome their own fear of snakes, so I`m fairly confident that I could as well if I put my mind to it. It`s not a choice, nor is it an inalterable reality like gravity.

    "And there is NO PROOF of any discernible change, period."

    I`ve seen stories on gay people who have changed, period. Now, this is just their claim, but likewise, the only
  122. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:54 am
    Both of you :P
  123. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:54 am
    sex = male vs. female.

    gender = man vs. woman.

    there really is a huge difference.
  124. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:55 am
    Crakr, who would you prefer, this:

    Or this?


    You must be mental.
    Or perhaps just straight?


    Incidentally, if you do prefer the latter you should come to Glasgow since he just signed for Celtic :D a good player, hooray!
  125. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:55 am
    Ducking hell, PsychGeek. I KNOW people who identify as all those things. That`s how I know. That`s the nice thing about not caring about the names. It accounts for everybody. Be what you are.
  126. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:56 am
    @ KPres:

    sexuality is not like getting over a phobia. you are able to correct phobias with therapy and intense cognitive effort.

    there IS a biological origin to homosexuality, and there`s little argument against that. no one knows *exactly* what the source is, but there are a number of different theories that all play a role. you can`t just switch your brain chemistry, you`re born liking who you like.
  127. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:56 am
    OH wow, you`re trying to school me on the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation? Nice one.
  128. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:57 am
    Psychology is much more than personality, there are a couple different axis, just pick up any psych textbook. I do know however, that a phobia is not analogous to sexual orientation.

  129. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:58 am
    @ tainteddeity: so they label themselves, for whatever reason. no matter what you do, people will ALWAYS label themselves and other in order to make it easier to make sense of the world. it`s called a "schema", or a category we place people into: black vs white, gay vs straight, etc etc. it is human nature to categorize.

    do you know why someone would identify as asexual? do you believe it to be a choice, or were they always like that?
  130. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 8:59 am
    oh get over yourself tainted, you asked for context and we gave it to you.
  131. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:01 am
    I think you`re misunderstanding me. I`m merely using the labels so you know what I`m talking about. These people exist and they aren`t mapped on the Venn diagram model which would suggest it`s an insufficient model. It assumes a gender binary, and duck that.
    The people I know who, when pushed, identify as asexual just have no interest in sex with either gender - and never have.
  132. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:04 am
    well, like i said before--we each believe what we want to regarding sexuality. it`s fascinating really, for something so intimate and talked about we know so little about it. maybe you`re right, maybe i`m right...maybe we`re both right. or hell, maybe neither of us is right :p either way, sexuality is really quite an amazing thing.
  133. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:05 am
    Yeah, maybe all those people I know don`t exist because they don`t fit in your idea of sexuality.
    Nice one!
  134. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:05 am
    I have had "sexual" feelings for both men and women. But I choose to be sexually active with men only because of my faith (and no I know I`m not a perfect Christian but faith is faith).
    Then you are bisexual. Your sexuality is defined by what you feel, not what you do.

    If it was defined by what you do, then logically every virgin has no sexuality, which is obviously not the case - it is those feelings of sexual desire that cause people to lose their virginity in the first case.


    Can you stop yourself feeling those feelings for women? Or is it something that just happens without conscious decision? Regardless of whether you act on it or not, are you able to stop yourself being attracted to women as well as men?
  135. Profile photo of sgibson12
    sgibson12 Male 30-39
    93 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:06 am
    The foreward is by dr. Laura. It`s at least well thought out, likely.
  136. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:09 am
    oh shut UP tainted! hot damn you need to chill out and stop thinking everything i`m saying is an attack against your friends. your opinion on this (and that`s all it is), is not the only right one. jeez dude, it`s just an online discussion. relax.
  137. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:12 am
    When your definition (your opinion, remember) excludes my friends and many like them all over the world, is it any surprise I`m arguing with you?
    My opinion is merely `These people say they are X. Go for it!`.
    Why do you find that hard? :P
  138. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:15 am
    TD, incidentally have you ever seen a 3 bubbled Venn diagram? They exist you know. Just a heads up there.
  139. Profile photo of KPres
    KPres Male 30-39
    309 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:16 am
    "there IS a biological origin to homosexuality, and there`s little argument against that."

    False. The current consensus is indeterminate.
  140. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:17 am
    Also, when you`re calling many people all over the world liars, you ARE attacking my friends.
    You may not mean to do it, but intent isn`t that important. I`m not saying you`re a terrible person, I`m saying that you`re being ignorant and exclusionary - perfectly possible to do without meaning to.
  141. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:17 am
    QueenZira: Can you link me to the Venn Diagram model you speak of? I think I`m working from a different one to you.
  142. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:18 am
    Re: "Indeterminate", false.

    Genes or the hormonal environment in utero are both biological influences. Ie. it`s not like choosing to wear your favorite colored socks.
  143. Profile photo of KPres
    KPres Male 30-39
    309 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:22 am
    "Genes or the hormonal environment in utero are both biological influences. Ie. it`s not like choosing to wear your favorite colored socks."

    I specifically said it was not a choice like that. It`s a personality trait, most likely, and we don`t choose our personality traits. However, we can alter them by altering our environment, belief`s, etc.
  144. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:22 am
    @ tainted:

    when, my dear sir, did i ever call your friends liars? when did i ever attack them? i certainly don`t want to judge them, especially since i don`t know them or anything about them. YOU misjudged my intentions when i asked questions, which i find amazing since i said AT LEAST twice "we may BOTH be right or wrong about this".

    you were so determined to twist what i said as an attack, you didn`t pay attention when i tried to say that we both had valid points. so, in your immortal words, "nice one".
  145. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:24 am
    Every image I keep finding is too big. Just do a search.
  146. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:26 am
    Personality traits are from a different axis (I think). There is a world of difference between say, someone introverted becoming extroverted when in the company of the right people, and someone having red hair.
  147. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:27 am
    PsychGeek:
    You`re saying I may be wrong. In doing so, you`re questioning the validity of people all over the world who claim to be a sexual or gender identity that you don`t agree with. I`m not really sure what your opinion is because all you`ve given us is a cobbled together bunch of psychological models, but I`m not sure I`m that bothered.
    WHy do you refuse to accept that these other identities exist?
  148. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:30 am
    in the same vein as queen:

    you can choose your hair color on any given day, using different dyes. however, underneath it all, you are still one particular color, whether it be brown, blond, red, or black. or you could have a bit of more than one color, like brown with natural red highlights. in the end, you`re either one or the other, or both.
  149. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:31 am
    @ tainted:

    why do you refuse to accept that maybe the Venn diagram model is valid? i`m not at all saying i`m 100% right. again, if you`d actually READ MY COMMENTS, you`d see that i even allowed room for doubt in my position, not just yours. good god man, READ WHAT PEOPLE SAY before you spout off and try to bash their opinions.

    i may be right, you may be right, or maybe neither of us is right. for god`s sake.
  150. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:32 am
    in any case, i`m done with this argument. we`re both talking in circles and it`s pointless. thanks for a good conversation, tainted. :)
  151. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:33 am
    Due to a lack of context to that, Psych, I`m going to assume you`re saying something like `asexual people aren`t really asexual. They`re gay/straight/bi but pretending not to be or some poo`?
    Similarly, are you saying: "Trans women aren`t REALLY women, they`re really men who are just pretending."?
  152. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:35 am
    Psych, I smell a troll.
  153. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:36 am
    i agree Queen, he`s arguing for the sake of arguing. apparently he`s not reading what anyone says, he`s just trying to start a fight. i kinda feel sorry for him, you know? so determined to be right he doesn`t actually listen to what anyone says. oh well :p
  154. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:38 am
    however, i do think i should make one final response, in regards to my comment on the hair color.

    to give a tiny bit of context, i am all about gay rights, rights of transgenders, etc. all i`m trying to say is this: at the end of the day, a transgender is still BIOLOGICALLY what he or she was born as. if you`re talking GENDER, which is more PSYCHOLOGICAL and CULTURAL, it`s a completely different can of worms. at the end of the day, a person is either gay, straight, or bi. that is MY PERSONAL OPINION. and now i`m done.
  155. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:38 am
    Nice work BTW on the hair analogy, Psych, my old professor would`ve appreciated that.
  156. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:39 am
    aww thanks, Queen! :) i`ve really been liking your comments as well, you`ve made a lot of very valid points!
  157. Profile photo of tainteddeity
    tainteddeity Male 18-29
    848 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:44 am
    I have never been accused of being a troll before. You know, I don`t think this posting format is doing us any favours. Communication is hard.
  158. Profile photo of DamienLike
    DamienLike Male 13-17
    705 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:50 am
    Healing Homosexuality?
    I didn`t realise being gay is a disease.
  159. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 10:00 am
    The fact is there are various degrees of sexual orientation from fully straight, slightly bi, bisexual, and fully gay means a choice is involved.

    Can you explain how you reach that conclusion? I see no connection at all between your premise and your conclusion.


    Desire and disgust can be manipulated, This is a well known fact.

    Yes, it is. It`s why some extremely unpleasant people can manipulate some people into feeling so ashamed of their harmless sexuality that they try to suppress it.
  160. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 10:13 am
    For me my sexuality wasn`t a choice, as I can think back all the way to age 7 and having thoughts that define my sexuality quite well. However, I do believe some people do make the choice to be gay or straight, like a large portion of bisexuals OR people who might feel rejected by the opposite (or like) gender. But those are just my opinions. Some people, a choice. Others, not so much.

    You`re confusing two different things - sexuality and actions. If someone is bi and they choose to have sex only with people of one sex, they are still bi. Their sexuality is unchanged.

    Imagine that you are strongly brainwashed to only have sex with women over 5`10" feet tall. You`re still attracted to some women shorter than that, but due to the brainwashing you now think it`s morally wrong to have sex with shorter women so you suppress any such desires as much as you can. Your actions have changed, but your sexuality hasn`t.
  161. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 10:26 am
    You can`t fix being gay because there really isn`t anything wrong with it. Some guy 2000 years ago said he didn`t like gay people, and then started a religion.

    You`ve got the right idea but you`ve also got the wrong religion and the wrong year.

    There is no evidence at all of Jesus saying anything against homosexuality, let alone that he didn`t like gay people. I don`t just mean there`s no actual evidence - there isn`t even any faith "evidence", i.e. Christian scripture doesn`t support such a thing.

    The religion to blame is Judaism, not Christianity. Most Christians are very ignorant of their own religion and suppress their intelligence enough to mindlessly accept beliefs that are not even internally consistent, but the problem started with Judaism, not Christianity.
  162. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 10:29 am
    my analogy that homo-sexuality is less in countries that do not tolerate homo-sexuality does indeed prove me right.

    No, it proves that people are less open about homosexuality when and where it isn`t tolerated.

    Try to imagine that you lived in a society where heterosexuality was illegal and socially unacceptable. You`d probably try to keep your heterosexuality concealed, right? Most heterosexuals would, right? Which would make heterosexuality look much less common in that society, right?
  163. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 11:56 am
    almightybob1: Nice trick with the pictures, They are both men. Sorry not going there.
  164. Profile photo of kingofqueens
    kingofqueens Male 30-39
    35 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 12:01 pm
    @ Angilion

    Read Romans 1:26-28 if you don`t think Christians do not support homosexuality. The bible says it is a sin, but what Christ said was to treat everyone with respect and love.....even sinners. That`s why Christians who preach hatred against homosexuals are hypocrites and not really Christians. As for homosexuality, it is a sin, the Bible says so, but it is the same as any other sin in God`s eyes, and something we are all guilty of.
  165. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3849 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 12:03 pm
    as i`ve become older i`ve come to the opinion that sexuality and desire seem (to me at least) to be fluid. put more simply--sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you don`t.

    sorry for the smart-ass comment, but that pretty much sums up my opinion.

    as long as everybody`s of legal age and consenting, it ain`t nobody`s business what happens in the privacy of your own home.

    we should all be a lot less concerned about our neighbor`s sexuality and more concerned about the future--our own, our country`s, and our world`s.
  166. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    kingofqueens: You are correct, But that doesn`t mean we as Christians should tolerate gays hijacking the term marriage, or condoning their sinful nature.
  167. Profile photo of Gyzmo
    Gyzmo Female 18-29
    1 post
    January 9, 2011 at 12:43 pm
    Angilion, as a girl with a girlfriend, I appreciate your backup for the gays. lol

    However, it does actually say in the bible that a man shall not lay with a man like he does a woman, for it is a sin.

    I`m not saying it`s right, because the bible also forbids round haircuts, tattoos, and polyester, I`m just saying it`s there.
  168. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:01 pm
    Gyzmo: Since when does the bible forbid polyester ? Don`t get me wrong those 70`s poly suits looked awful, but they were sinful too ?
  169. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:11 pm
    KingofQueens

    "Read Romans 1:26-28 if you don`t think Christians do not support homosexuality. The bible says it is a sin, but what Christ said was to treat everyone with respect and love.....even sinners. . . .As for homosexuality, it is a sin, the Bible says so, "

    No, the Bible does not, ever, call homosexuality a sin. The passage from Romans that you cited is not about homosexuality, it is about sex as a religious practice - men and women having sex with priests and priestess of Cybele and Attis.

    The Bible constantly condemns injustice, and anti-gay theology is intrinsically unjust. Jesus said, in Matthew 7 15-24, that the test for false teachers are their fruit - and all of the fruit of anti-gay theology is evil.

    The anti-gay theology you and CrakrJak spread kills people. In Uganda, it is the reason for a bill that would make homosexuality punishable by death.
  170. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3849 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    @ CrackrJak & Gyzmo

    funny y`all should be discussing the presence of `polyester` in the bible. the other day my sister, who comes from the hyper-religious side of the family (as opposed to lil ole atheist me), told me that she saw the word `siesta` in her bible.

    LOL, indeed.
  171. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:15 pm
    CrakrJaK

    "But that doesn`t mean we as Christians should tolerate gays hijacking the term marriage, or condoning their sinful nature."

    Then you are not really a follower of Christ. Jesus said that you must treat everyone exactly as well as you wanted to be treated. If you are married, or want to be married, to obey Jesus you must allow same-sex couples to marry.

    Your use of the word `hijack` is malicious, which is more sin on your part. Same-sex couples are not forcing any change on the relationships of heterosexuals, you are simply bearing false witness.

    Instead, we are seeking to have exactly what you and every other het in the U.S. has - the right to enter into a civil contract to protect our relationship.

    Without that contract, we endure great hardship and loss that het couples are protected from by the contract of marriage.
  172. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:17 pm
    Heureux: What part of "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" Do you not understand ? It is a sin, don`t kid yourself.
  173. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:20 pm
    @CrakrJak

    Who do you love, CrakrJak?

    Come on, you`re in your 40s. You`re more than halfway to the finishing line. You must have someone by now.
  174. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:21 pm
    "Since when does the bible forbid polyester ? "

    Polyester is unnatural. By the heretical theology of anti-gay theology, wherein anything perceived as unnatural is sin, polyester is sin, as are computers, the internet, IAB, written language, and candy-coated popcorn with peanuts and a prize.

    Of course, homosexuality actually is natural, occuring in nature and being natural for about 10% of humanity. Just one of the flaws in the anti-gay interpretation of the passage from Romans 1.

    Another flaw is that Romans 1 doesn`t end at verse 28, the point Paul makes actually appears at the start of Romans 2: 1
    "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."
  175. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:23 pm
    Heureux: In many states gays can enter a contract with their partner, it`s called a civil union. But that, it seems, is not good enough for gays, They want the term `marriage` so they can legally force churches to marry them. Sorry, that goes way beyond `equal rights`.
  176. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:26 pm
    CrakrJak

    What part of Thou Shalt Not Bear False witness do you not understand?

    Gay men do not lie with other men as if with women.

    You do realize that the Bible was not written in English, don`t you? You are wielding an flawed translation to promote injustice.

    The passage from Leviticus, one of two parallel passages, and requiring the death penalty, is not about homosexuals. The term translated `abomination` - is `toebah` and it means ritual impurity, it connotes something related to idolatry. The Leviticus passages actually condemn married men (because `as with a woman` is actually `in a wife`s bed` in the Hebrew) having sex with priests of fertility cults. It is about a form of adultery. Heterosexual adultery is also condemned, with greater frequency, yet no heterosexual fundamentalist ever concludes that heterosexuality is a sin.

    Because they, you, are not interested in sin, but in excusing injustice.
  177. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:29 pm
    Heureux: I`m not passing judgment, I have no power to condemn or imprison anyone.

    You`re misusing the word `judgment`, In a vain attempt to silence any criticism or debate.
  178. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:30 pm
    CrakrJack

    "Heureux: In many states gays can enter a contract with their partner, it`s called a civil union. But that, it seems, is not good enough for gays,"

    Civil unions do not provide equal rights, they lack at least the +1500 federal protections, yet expose same-sex couples to greater taxation.

    "They want the term `marriage` so they can legally force churches to marry them."
    Sorry, but you are lying again. Please repent.

    We don`t need to force churches to marry us, there is a growing body of Christian churches that will bless our relationships with marriage ceremonies. And where same-sex marriage is legal, we can, like heterosexuals, go to a civil servant to honor our vows. You are bearing false witness, which is a sin. Your belief causes you to sin, so it cannot come from God.

    "Sorry, that goes way beyond `equal rights`."

    All we are seeking is equality, for us and for the Christian churches
  179. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:31 pm
    @CrakrJak.

    "But that, it seems, is not good enough for gays, They want the term `marriage` so they can legally force churches to marry them."

    Incorrect. Weirdly enough, gay people want the right to get married...SO THEY CAN GET MARRIED!

    Again, CrakrJak: Who do you love?
  180. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:33 pm
    Musuko42: You`re acting like a scientologist with the repeated questioning. I`ve already answered your question, If it doesn`t satisfy you, well that`s too damn bad.
  181. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:36 pm
    Come on CrakrJak, there must be someone.

    Wife? Ex-wife? Girlfriend? Ex-girlfriend? Secret crush? Mistress? Dominatrix? Boyfriend?

    Are you married? Divorced? Single? Virgin? A father? Childless?

    Come on, spill? Why so ashamed that you keep it so secret? Most everyone else here will quite happily tell you these things. Most people have in their facebook profiles!

    So come now, tell us from where you`re speaking...

    ...because your continued silence is just making me (and maybe others) assume that you`re a 40-something virgin, or divorced, or having sex outside of marriage, or using rentboys, or any number of things that go so directly against everything you are preaching.
  182. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:36 pm
    "Heureux: I`m not passing judgment, I have no power to condemn or imprison anyone."

    Sure you are. You are making a negative conclusion about millions of people. Homophobes frequently try what you have just done, use a falsely limited definition of the word judgment to lie about their own sinful and destructive behavior.

    judgment: the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind:

    "You`re misusing the word `judgment`, In a vain attempt to silence any criticism or debate."

    You are bearing false witness again, against me directly. Please repent. You actually mis-used the word, then blamed me for your error.

    Pathetically, you complain about my use of the word judgment, while you smeared millions of people by labeling their loving relationships `abominations` and cited a passage that, if it meant what you say it does, would demand their execution.
  183. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:37 pm
    CrakrJak, you haven`t answered my question. You`ve said that you`re not going to give me an answer.

    An answer of sorts, but not one that actually addresses the question.

    So are you ashamed of the truth of your love life, is that it?

    Don`t want us to know what you get up to whilst you tell the rest of us what we should and shouldn`t be getting up to?

    Come on, CrakrJak, who do you love? It`s a simple question.
  184. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:39 pm
    "You`re acting like a scientologist with the repeated questioning. I`ve already answered your question, If it doesn`t satisfy you, well that`s too damn bad."

    While your behavior looks like the product of a guilty conscience - lies, distortions, excuse-making and evasion.

    I just hope that you are not divorced and remarried, because according to Jesus, unless the divorce was because of adultery, remarriage after a divorce is itself adultery.

    Which the Bible condemns very, very strongly and very, very often.
  185. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:39 pm
    "Heureux: I`m not passing judgment, I have no power to condemn or imprison anyone."

    Yes, you do. You live in a democracy and are enfranchised within said democracy.

    That gives you the power to decide the systems that condemn and imprison people.
  186. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    @Heureux

    "While your behavior looks like the product of a guilty conscience - lies, distortions, excuse-making and evasion."

    Exactly my thinking. I`m glad at least one other person is seeing it.

    What do you reckon it is? Considering his anti-homosexual stance, my money is on homosexual desires being key to his silence.

    Divorced, perhaps, feeling desire for men, but too messed up in the head to embrace it, choosing instead to be ashamed of it and lashing out at any reminder of it.

    That`d be my guess.
  187. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    Heureux: Now look who is being judgmental. I know I`m a sinner, Everyone is. Apparently you feel superior and are more than willing to twist the word of God to justify your sins.

    Go ahead, wallow in your sins while judging those that trying to be informative. Your efforts to silence Christians will not be fruitful.
  188. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:46 pm
    Musuko42: You assume to much.
  189. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:48 pm
    @CrakrJak

    "Go ahead, wallow in your sins while judging those that trying to be informative."

    We`re trying to wallow in it.

    Interfering know-betters like you keep trying to stop us.

    So which is it? Do you want us to wallow in sin, or save us from it?

    "Your efforts to silence Christians will not be
    fruitful."

    We`re not trying to silence you. We`re trying to marry our loved ones. You`re the ones picking a fight with us, not the other way around.

    Speaking of loved ones; who do you love, CrakrJak?

    Let`s hope you don`t actually have a wife...she`d be pretty pissed off if she knew you`re too ashamed to admit her existance.
  190. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:50 pm
    Speculating, not assuming.
  191. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:51 pm
    "Heureux: Now look who is being judgmental."

    We`re allowed to be judgemental, because we don`t subscribe to your rules. You, however, are not allowed to.

    Just like I can wear cotton-polyester blends, and you cannot.
  192. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    Musuko42: If gays "didn`t want to pick a fight" with Christians then why not lobby for changes in the civil union law instead of hijacking the term `marriage` ? If gays "didn`t want to pick a fight" with Christians, then why have they picketed churches and sued other churches for not marrying them or allowing them use of their facilities ?
  193. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:53 pm
    Back to my speculation, though. I`m right, aren`t I?

    Homosexual feelings that you can`t come to terms with?

    Come on man, you`re in your 40s. Address thoes feelings, meet some people, enjoy yourself, fall in love, have another 30 years of love and happiness.

    That`s what your god should want you to be doing; live and love and make the world a little bit happier.

    And if not, then why is he worth obeying?
  194. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:54 pm
    "Musuko42: If gays "didn`t want to pick a fight" with Christians then why not lobby for changes in the civil union law instead of hijacking the term `marriage` ?"

    Because marriage doesn`t belong to Christians, as much as you seem to think it does. It belonges to everyone, and therefore we all have a right to help decide what it means.

    You do not own marriage.

    Especially as I don`t think you yourself are even married.
  195. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Musuko42: Whatever, I will not indulge your idiocy further. Make up whatever assumptions you want, Your efforts at trolling are in vain.
  196. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Are you married, CrakrJak?

    Come on, it`s a simple question. You`ve answered it on countless forms and applications. You no doubt felt fine telling your cell phone provider, or your electricity company.

    Why not us?

    Is it maaaaybe because we`re discussing the sanctity of marriage, and you don`t want us learnign that the loudest voice for protecting it is personally not upholding that sanctity?

    So what is it? Divorced? Never married? Gay thoughts?
  197. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 2:00 pm
    "Musuko42: Whatever, I will not indulge your idiocy further. Make up whatever assumptions you want, Your efforts at trolling are in vain."

    Yeah, I`ve heard that kind of response before; from politicians and preachers, RIGHT before some rentboy spills the beans to the press.

    I could ask around, find out if any tricks in the midwest US have been with a 40-something religious homophobic closet case lately, but I`d likely find that they all have.
  198. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 2:05 pm
    Oh, and PS: we both know that`s not true...the indulging in my idiocy part. You know full well that you`re going to keep indulging in it.

    Maybe because you`re simply envious; I am comfortable and happy with who I am, and I have found someone who I am head over heels in love with, who loves me in return. And you want the same. I mean, who doesn`t?

    But every time you try to get it, you find that the one thing stopping you is...yourself. So rather than come to terms with that, you lash out at the reminders of what you can`t seem to have, rather than fixing the problem and getting it for yourself.

    You are Miss Havisham.

    It`s a shame really.
  199. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    CrakrJak wrote: "Now look who is being judgmental."

    You endanger the lives of other people by spreading lies and libel about them, including myself and my partner. I am allowed to tell you that you are sinning against me.

    "Apparently you feel superior"
    Please don`t project. Nothing in my posts has indicating such a thing, while you have labeled millions of people `abominations`. You won`t make your sins against GLBTQ go away by falsely accusing me.

    "and are more than willing to twist the word of God to justify your sins."
    Please do not project. You are the one endorsing injustice, who has promoted violence and discrimination, libeled and lied about millions of people.

    "Go ahead, wallow in your sins while judging those that trying to be informative. Your efforts to silence Christians will not be fruitful."

    You are bearing false witness against me, CrakrJak. Please repent.
  200. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 2:56 pm
    CrakrJack

    "If gays "didn`t want to pick a fight" with Christians"

    First off, many of us are Christians. Second, we are the ones who are still openly oppressed in society, and have been for centuries, so actually, it is your side that picked a fight. You are bearing false witness, which is a sin.

    "then why not lobby for changes in the civil union law instead of hijacking the term `marriage` ? "

    Because we are as entitled to the word marriage as you are. And, CrakrJak, your side lost the word the moment homophobes fought same-sex marriage. Further, what you suggest would require changing thousands of laws, which would take centuries, and all the while, our families would be harmed.

    After millenia of persecuting us, you now expect us to wait more lifetimes as to piecemeal achieve what can be done in one step, so that our families can suffer even more?

    How heartless of you.
  201. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:01 pm
    CrakrJak

    "If gays "didn`t want to pick a fight" with Christians, then why have they picketed churches and sued other churches for not marrying them or allowing them use of their facilities ?"

    In contrast to the way anti-gay Christians have slaughtered us? In contrast to the way Rev. Fred Phelps pickets the funerals of GLBTQ people, or the way the Catholic Church used to torture us? How about the 1000+ hate crimes against us every year - that`s 4 a day, all caused by anti-gay theology?

    Or the way conservative churches violate the campaign and tax laws, to force their theology into our lives with laws?

    Never mind that you are using generalizations to describe situations that when examined specifically, are not as you pretend they are?

    When people like you stop persecuting people like me, there will be no cause to criticize conservative churches.

    Dismissing Musuko42 as a troll was sin, please repent.
  202. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:08 pm
    If I remember correctly, that Romans passage goes on to label "improper worship practices" for what Paul`s ogre god did. And yes, it was Gawd who did it. So I guess as a Neopagan, that makes *me* a prime candidate? So when is it going to happen exactly???

    Also, every once in a while, in my never ending quest for wisdom, I *do* find something to value even from the Bible. My favorite passage is as follows:

    "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen." 1 John 20
  203. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:08 pm
    Kpres

    "It`s a personality trait, most likely, and we don`t choose our personality traits. However, we can alter them by altering our environment, belief`s, etc."

    Some personality traits can be modified, others cannot. Handedness, for example, cannot be modified, and research has shown that attempts to make lefties become righties, harms them.

    The fact is that there is no credible evidence whatsoever that anyone has ever changed from homosexual to heterosexual. At best, there is evidence that some bisexuals have chosen to suppress their homoerotic attractions and focus on their heterosexual ones, but that is of no use to people with no hetero-erotic attractions.

    Exodus Intl, of the leading ex-gay groups, even admits that people do not change their sexual attractions, only the label they identify themselves with.

    Ex-gay/reparative therapy is a con game, that makes millions of dollars every year by harming people.
  204. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:14 pm
    Kpres

    "False. The current consensus is indeterminate."

    False. The majority of researchers not affiliated with fundamentalist religions agree that the majority of evidence indicates a biological mechanism for sexual orientation. The theory that homosexuality is chosen is dismissed completely. The "nurture" theory is completely disproven as well.

    However, people who make their living persecuting GLBTQ people or catering to those who do, promote forged or fraudulent studies trying to prove that homosexuality is chosen.

    By the way, if you believe homosexuality is chosen, you could become a millionaire very quickly. All you have to do scientifically demonstrate that you change from straight to gay and back again. The standard of evidence is high, but relatively painless - several no-lie MRIs, some tests of your arousal response to visual stimuli that demonstrate a change, and you`d be the darling of the homophobes and rolling in c
  205. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:14 pm
    Angilion, as a girl with a girlfriend, I appreciate your backup for the gays. lol

    However, it does actually say in the bible that a man shall not lay with a man like he does a woman, for it is a sin.

    I`m not saying it`s right, because the bible also forbids round haircuts, tattoos, and polyester, I`m just saying it`s there.

    You`re fine straight away, because the entries in the Christian bible are male-specific. There is absolutely no scriptural reason for any Christian to be opposed to homosexuality between women.

    As for men...it`s still actually unclear. You`re quoting a very bad English interpretation and translation of one of two verses in Leviticus (they`re duplicates), which is ancient Jewish law and written in ancient Hebrew. It`s not clear what it actually means and in any case why should Christians follow that rule and not the other 612 Jewish rules?
  206. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:19 pm
    Heureux: What part of "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" Do you not understand ?

    CrakrJak:

    Which part of "That isn`t what`s actually in the Christian bible" don`t you understand?

    Which part of "That`s Jewish, not Christian" don`t you understand?

    Which part of "Why don`t you follow the other 612 Jewish rules" don`t you understand?

    For example:

    Do you keep kosher, in every detail? No? If you don`t, you`re just another hypocrite.
  207. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:20 pm
    KPres

    "I`ve seen stories on gay people who have changed, period."

    And for every such "story", there are thousands of GLBTQ people who try to change, without any success at all. You are simply choosing to believe what you want to hear, and ignoring all of the testimony against it.

    Further, of those who claim to change, a huge percentage end up admitting that they were lying the whole time. So far, none have ever allowed their story to be verified scientifically.

    Even the ex-gay ministries are admitting that people do not change their sexual attractions, they simply change the word they call themselves.

    QueenZira is right - there is no credible or scientific evidence that anyone has ever changed from gay to straight, and the leading organizations of psychologists and therapists reject change therapies as harmful, useless, and needless.
  208. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:24 pm
    "They want the term `marriage` so they can legally force churches to marry them."
    Sorry, but you are lying again. Please repent.

    Actually, Heureux, CrakrJak is probably right about that.

    Here in the UK, we have exactly what you say you want. Have had for years now. Civil partnerships (homosexual) are exactly the same in law as civil marriages (heterosexual). They`re even defined that way.

    Now homosexualists (and that is the right term in this context) are campaigning to legally force religious approval of homosexual marriages. Which, of course, is a right heterosexuals don`t have.

    Group rights advocacy never stops at equality because it never has anything to do with equality. It`s always about more for the chosen group. Any references to equality are lies for the purposes of propaganda.
  209. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:25 pm
    "People create their own reality, "

    That`s called being delusional, CrakrJak.

    Quick1dunko - you are a liar. There are multiple studies confirming a genetic and other biological causes for homosexuality. For example, researchers altered a single gene in fruit fly`s, resulting in gay fruit fly`s.

    Your use of a pejorative to lie about our lives just proves that you are a bigot telling lies. The fact is that GLBTQ people are no more likely to have been abused, than heterosexuals. Nor are we more likely to be atheists. Your remarks regarding anti-gay countries prove you to be uninformed and incapable of critical thinking, that`s all.
  210. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:29 pm
    CrakrJak

    "It is changeable and thousands have made that change."

    No and no. The fact is that there is a relatively small number of people who claim something like that, but who also admit to still struggling with same-sex attractions, and who generally make their living from claiming to be ex-gay. But there are hundreds of thousands of GLBTQ people who tried to change into heterosexuals, without any success at all.

    "The fact is there are various degrees of sexual orientation from fully straight, slightly bi, bisexual, and fully gay means a choice is involved."
    No. That would mean then that the fact that there is a spectrum of color in light means that photons chose their energy level and wavelength, or that there is a spectrum of species complexity means that animals chose their species.

    Variety does not indicate choice. Humans come in a variety of skin colors, but skin color is not chosen.
  211. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:31 pm
    Angillion- even saying the word "homosexualist" to me or really to any left leaning yank, would get you a bugg eyed eye roll and then some scooting away from your general direction. It`s the language of the misinformed. Anyway, if xian gays want to reform their religion, they have that right.

    Furthermore, granting all rights and privileges but not the name, is really a hollow victory. It says plainly, "We don`t give you equal metaphysical footing, we acknowledge your lives and experience don`t matter and are inferior to ours anyway, so why care?" Bad form all around. And please don`t make me invoke the Patriotism vs. Nationalism argument again...
  212. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:33 pm
    If I remember correctly, that Romans passage goes on to label "improper worship practices" for what Paul`s ogre god did. And yes, it was Gawd who did it. So I guess as a Neopagan, that makes *me* a prime candidate?

    Yes. There`s no clarity about homosexuality in Judeo-Christian scripture(*) but there is about other religions. Not allowed at all.


    * Really, there isn`t. Any Christians who think there is should learn more about what was actually written in their bible, not the English interpretations and translations of it.
  213. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:34 pm
    Angilion

    "Actually, Heureux, CrakrJak is probably right about that."

    No. As a gay activist, I do know the motives of myself and my peers. CrakrJak is lying again.

    "Now homosexualists (and that is the right term in this context)"

    No, actually, it is not. It is a variant on homosexual that is only used by homophobes.

    "are campaigning to legally force religious approval of homosexual marriages. Which, of course, is a right heterosexuals don`t have."

    The UK, with a state religion tied into the contract of marriage, is a different situation than that found in the U.S., which is CrakrJak`s home base.


    Group rights advocacy never stops at equality because it never has anything to do with equality. It`s always about more for the chosen group. Any references to equality are lies for the purposes of propaganda.
  214. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:35 pm
    Angillion- even saying the word "homosexualist" to me or really to any left leaning yank, would get you a bugg eyed eye roll and then some scooting away from your general direction. It`s the language of the misinformed.

    People who ignore what is written because they look at one word and stop thinking are at best fools.

    I wrote "(and that is the right term in this context)" for a reason. If you don`t understand it, say so and I`ll explain it to you.
  215. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:36 pm
    Here`s a thought: if same-sex marriage is to be disallowed because it goes against Christian rules...

    ...then why aren`t Christians campaigning for straight non-Christians (Muslims, Jews, Hindus, athiests, etc etc) to be banned from marriage?

    Surely all of those groups are going against Christian rules too.
  216. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:36 pm
    Angilion

    "Group rights advocacy never stops at equality because it never has anything to do with equality. It`s always about more for the chosen group. Any references to equality are lies for the purposes of propaganda."

    You are projecting. As it is now, all opposition from heterosexual to same-sex marriage is about ensuring that heterosexuals continue to have more than homosexuals have. It is opponents of same-sex marriage who engage in propaganda and lies.

    Remember, in this struggle, there is one side arguing to deprive other people of a basic civil contract - homophobes. And there is one side seeking exactly the same contract that everyone else has - GLBTQ people and their het allies.
  217. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:38 pm
    Further, what you suggest would require changing thousands of laws, which would take centuries

    Why? In the UK it took one new law and a couple of months for it to pass easily through the usual process of a formal proposal becoming law.

    You don`t need to change existing law about marriage. You can just add a new one saying "this has the same legal status as marriage". Job done.
  218. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:39 pm
    "People who ignore what is written because they look at one word and stop thinking are at best fools.

    I wrote "(and that is the right term in this context)" for a reason. If you don`t understand it, say so and I`ll explain it to you."

    You wrote to defend prejudice and libel GLBTQ people, and then dismissed criticism because the criticism was accurate.
  219. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:40 pm
    You are projecting.

    You are a liar in denial because you are a group advocate who does favour discrimination.

    We`ve been here before. I advocate in favour of equality. You advocate against it and lie.
  220. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    You wrote to defend prejudice and libel GLBTQ people, and then dismissed criticism because the criticism was accurate.

    As usual, you are lying.

    You are a foul bigot. I have more respect for CrakrJak than I have for you, because he is at least an honest bigot who doesn`t embrace slander and libel as a first course of action, like you do.
  221. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    Angilion, again not true. Native American religions have looked upon GLBT individuals as specially blessed, the two spirit people, and made them shamans and medicine men. There are many concurring views among other indigenous peoples.

    Ancient Gods and Goddesses have been known to have same sex loves and relationships, and some deities were specifically dedicated to protecting and watching over those individuals who were GLBT.

    Hell, there are even early xian gay saints. I s#it you not.
  222. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:45 pm
    Angilion

    The U.S. is not the U.K. In the U.S., as multiple legal analysts have been saying for more than a decade, creating equivalency between civil unions and marriage would take creating thousands of separate laws, at every level of jurisdiction.

    Further, people who oppose same-sex marriage also oppose civil unions/domestic partners, and recent laws to ban same-sex marriage been written broadly enough to eradicate civil unions as well.

    In Oregon, anti-gay activists promised - if you don`t fight for marriage, you can have civil unions, and then turned right around and tried to make civil unions illegal as well.

    Further, homophobes have already lost the word marriage, and the laws are not about the word, but about the civil contract. The whole `hijacking the word` argument is a red herring, a deception.
  223. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:48 pm
    Furthermore, granting all rights and privileges but not the name, is really a hollow victory.

    i) It`s the fastest way to get the rights and privileges because it removes the biggest point of argument. Which do you want more - the rights and privileges or a fight?

    ii) It`s also the fastest way to get the word "marriage" in common usage. People in the UK don`t say "Bob and John are formalising a civil partnership". They say "Bob and John are getting married".

    The only reason to have a fight about the word "marriage" is if your main priority is having a fight. Which it is for many people - it makes them feel righteous. Fight the good fight!

    I`d rather get results.
  224. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:48 pm
    Angilion

    "As usual, you are lying.

    You are a foul bigot. I have more respect for CrakrJak than I have for you, because he is at least an honest bigot who doesn`t embrace slander and libel as a first course of action, like you do."

    The verbal abuse in your post means that you cannot refute anything I posted in a rational or accurate way. You respect CrakrJak because you share his prejudice, that`s all.

    "You are a liar in denial because you are a group advocate who does favour discrimination.

    We`ve been here before. I advocate in favour of equality. You advocate against it and lie."

    Thanks for describing your own behavior so clearly, Angilion. But telling lies about will not change the truth. Are you a sock puppet for CrakrJak, who conveniently fell silent when you started posting, or vice versa?
  225. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:50 pm
    Angilion, again not true. Native American religions have looked upon GLBT individuals as specially blessed, the two spirit people, and made them shamans and medicine men. There are many concurring views among other indigenous peoples.

    Ancient Gods and Goddesses have been known to have same sex loves and relationships, and some deities were specifically dedicated to protecting and watching over those individuals who were GLBT.

    What does any of that have to do with anything I`ve written? You claim it proves me wrong...how?
  226. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:51 pm
    Angilion may have some...unorthodox ways of getting his point across, but I don`t think he`s a bigot. He`s just awfully straightforward about things, I suppose.
  227. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:53 pm
    Angillion

    "It`s also the fastest way to get the word "marriage" in common usage. "

    The word is already in common usage, which is why ultimately, barring some horrific social disaster, same-sex marriage will be legal. The law will catch up with language - even homophobes use the word marriage to describe the intimate, committed relationship between two people of the same gender.

    You are not promoting equality when you endorse one contract, with centuries of gravitas for heterosexuals, and a separate contract for homosexuals. You are promoting injustice and inequality.

    Here`s a thought for you - heterosexuals get the new contract of civil unions, and we can have marriage. Why not - if they are equal? But funny, homophobes don`t say - ok, have marriage, we`ll make a new contract just for us.

    Instead they say - to hell with your families, we`ve got ours, scr*w you.
  228. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:53 pm
    @Angilion- when you said other religions roundly condemn homosexuality. A cursory look is enough to bring out some surprising results. Would only that modern religions rediscover their suppressed histories...
  229. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:57 pm
    QueenZira

    Angillion is making the same arguments that I`ve seen hundreds of homophobes use on-line. The same dismissals, the same frauds, the same core premise: GLBTQ have no right to the word marriage, are not qualified for the contract of marriage.

    It all comes from the assumption that our relationships are inferior to heterosexual ones. He`s offered nothing that advances equality, and resorted to libel when challenged, rather than present even a shard of a civil, rational, fact-based argument.

    His false accusations about me prove where he is coming from - prejudice and malice.
  230. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 3:58 pm
    The verbal abuse in your post means that you cannot refute anything I posted in a rational or accurate way.

    Since your first response to anyone who disagrees with your bigotry is to lie about them, your claims about verbal abuse are particularly reprehensible. You embrace slander and libel because you`re a very nasty person who either can`t refute anything or doesn`t care to try. You know lying is more effective, so you do that first.

    You respect CrakrJak because you share his prejudice, that`s all.

    If you`ve read anything I`ve written and you believe that, you`re insane.

    But you don`t believe it, do you? You just know it`s an effective lie and you always leap to lying as your first course of action.

    CrakrJak is an honest bigot. You`re a dishonest bigot. I therefore have even less respect for you than I do for him.

    You`re a poo-eating bottom-feeder, slithering in the filth at the base of humanity.
  231. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:00 pm
    Angillion is making the same arguments that I`ve seen hundreds of homophobes use on-line. The same dismissals, the same frauds, the same core premise: GLBTQ have no right to the word marriage, are not qualified for the contract of marriage.

    It all comes from the assumption that our relationships are inferior to heterosexual ones. He`s offered nothing that advances equality, and resorted to libel when challenged, rather than present even a shard of a civil, rational, fact-based argument.

    His false accusations about me prove where he is coming from - prejudice and malice.

    Every word of that post is a lie. Which is to be expected from Heureux.

    As you well know, my position is that there should be no distinction at all, neither in law nor in social custom, between homosexuality and heterosexuality.

    Only you could take something so clear and lie so much about it.
  232. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:00 pm
    Earlier on, his posts showed an enlightened tone. He has also stated before that he is Bisexual, from this I don`t see bigotry, but maybe perhaps some internalized homophobia?

    (Not an Insult dude, don`t take it as one.)
  233. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:01 pm
    QueenZira

    The angle angillion has played repeatedly, that GLBTQ seeking same-sex marriage are really seeking to oppress heterosexuals, is standard fare from homophobes - it is a wordy version of the `forcing it down our throats` meme.

    Notice that after I pointed out who really is oppressing who, Angilion resorted to libel, and then falsely accused me of it.

    His true feelings about this are clear, and his deception is not effective.
  234. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:02 pm
    Boys, please don`t fight! Save your blood and vinegar for the enemy, for cheesecake sake! (Redwall book series reference)
    *Is a well read dork*
  235. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:06 pm
    Oh QueenZira, you do make me smile. :)
  236. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:06 pm
    Here`s a thought for you - heterosexuals get the new contract of civil unions, and we can have marriage. Why not - if they are equal?

    That would be fine by me, especially if there was any practical reason for it.

    You can call it binglywibblething for all I care, as long as it comes with all the legal rights.

    Bear in mind that I`m bisexual - it`s possible that I might marry either a man or a woman. I`ve no wish to get married, but who knows what the future will hold? I want the rights. Stick whatever label you like on the forms, I don`t give a damn.
  237. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:07 pm
    He`s really anti group advocation for anything, which in my opinion is a little extreme. We`ve had discussions about it before.
  238. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:08 pm
    Angilion
    There are no lies in my posts, Angilion. I am confident that your guilt and sense of entitlement is driving you to be abusive. But dismissing my accurate statements as lies will do you little good.

    QueenZira - many of the nastiest homophobes at least live as bisexuals - married to women, sneaking off to have sex with men. It is often bisexuals who promote the `homosexuality is a choice` lie as well.

    His blanket dismissals and denunciations, in place of a reasoned rebuttal, tell the tale.

    He says he`d rather get results - but the results he seeks are discriminatory, create the impression that same-sex relationships are inferior, and stigmatize same-sex couples.

    All the while, if bi, he can still enjoy the contract he advises us not to seek. Let him convince hets and bi`s who marry someone of the opposite sex to take civil unions and give up marriage, then he`ll have some credibility.
  239. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:09 pm
    Always glad to be of service, Musuko!! 8-)
  240. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:09 pm
    The angle angillion has played repeatedly, that GLBTQ seeking same-sex marriage are really seeking to oppress heterosexuals

    Yet more lies from the Prince of Lies.

    I very explicitly made a distinction between people seeking to make same-sex marriage legal (many of whom are heterosexual - are you bigoted against heterosexuals as well, Heureux?) and people who are group advocates for homosexuals. Two completely different groups, as different as, for example, pale-skinned people in general and whitists.
  241. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:13 pm
    All I ask is that when you critique him, you keep in mind some facts about his personality and have a little compassion for where he might be.
  242. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:13 pm
    "That would be fine by me, especially if there was any practical reason for it. "

    What a revealing caveat. There is no reason, other than prejudice, for GLBTQ people to settle for civil unions, so why should they?

    "I`ve no wish to get married,"

    And yet, you tell those of us who do that we should settle for something that will be perceived as inferior, that will not protect our families, that lacks the honor and gravitas and social standing of an institution you do not even want to participate in.

    So what value does your input have except to muddy an issue that you can chose to exempt yourself from simply by ignoring your same-sex attractions?

    You can have marriage, but don`t want it, and have the audacity to tell me I should settle for something less than marriage?

    There`s no rational reason for such inequality other than bias and selfishness.
  243. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:15 pm
    He`s really anti group advocation for anything, which in my opinion is a little extreme.

    I am, and I agree that it is a little extreme. I am a fanatic about equality of all kinds, which inevitably makes me a little extreme in some ways.

    Different people would see different parts of my views as extreme. For example, some people would see desegregating toilets as extreme. I think that ideally it should happen immediately, everywhere.

    I do recognise the need for practicality and a limited pace of change, though. So if I was Dictator of the World, I wouldn`t immediately order the desegregation of all toilets. That wouldn`t stick. I`d start campaigning for it, so it would happen over time without the need for force. That way, it would stick.
  244. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:17 pm
    What a revealing caveat.

    And now you lie by omission, deliberately ignoring almost all of my post. You do so, obviously, because the rest of my post completely contradicts what you pretend to have believed a few words of my post to mean.
  245. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:17 pm
    "a distinction between people seeking to make same-sex marriage legal (many of whom are heterosexual - are you bigoted against heterosexuals as well, Heureux?) and people who are group advocates for homosexuals."

    This a verbose version of the "gay activists" as a slur meme. It is idea that people who advocate for equality, if they are also homosexuals, are actually seeking to oppress poor heterosexuals and bisexuals like Angilion.

    I`ve seen it too many times to be fooled by it, this false distinction. Notice that it has to be supported with more false accusations.

    And now, he`s called be satan, because `Prince of Lies` is one of the titles of satan. Angilion is playing "smear the qu**r" because he`s been caught out promoting inequality.
  246. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:18 pm
    Well Angilion, as long as you hold Justice itself as sacred, as I do, then you can`t be all bad. ;D
  247. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:21 pm
    You can have marriage, but don`t want it, and have the audacity to tell me I should settle for something less than marriage?

    Nice try, you nearly managed to sneak that lie past me.

    I do not and have not said that people in homosexual relationships should settle for something less than marriage.

    I am going to continue correcting your lies. You will, of course, continue making them because that`s your nature and because you know that if you lie often enough some people will believe you.

    I am very glad I am so much better than you.
  248. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:23 pm
    Angilion

    The constant stream of verbal abuse from you really does indicate where your true feeling are here. Name calling, false accusations, attacking my sanity - these are the standard tactics of homophobes when they are exposed.

    You falsely accused millions of GLBTQ people of seeking to oppress heterosexuals, and when called on that, unleashed a tidal wave of abusive behavior.

    I seen all the standard arguments and positions that homophobes use, and you`ve been presenting the very same thing. That parallel has meaning.
  249. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:24 pm
    You may want to tone down the rhetoric though, Angilion, after all, we`re all supposed to be working together now.

    In another observation, you guys totally have to get avies or something, it`s hard to follow all of you around the screen sometimes. (ba dum bump)
  250. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    It is idea that people who advocate for equality, if they are also homosexuals, are actually seeking to oppress poor heterosexuals and bisexuals like Angilion.

    Which, unsurprisingly, is not what I said. Heureux is lying as usual.

    And now, he`s called be satan, because `Prince of Lies` is one of the titles of satan. Angilion is playing "smear the qu**r" because he`s been caught out promoting inequality.

    More lies, as usual. I`m "smearing" you because you`re a lying bigot. I don`t care that you`re also homosexual in the same way that I don`t care about your shoe size - trivial irrelevancies.

    Since you`re a bigot and you`re fervently opposed to equality, you may have managed to delude yourself that my support for equality is support for inequality on the basis that it denies you the privileges you think you`re entitled to. So I won`t call you a liar about that because you might be delusional enough
  251. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    "I am very glad I am so much better than you."

    This is the heart of prejudice, you know. Prejudice is all about wanting to believe that other people are inferior. It is all about ego. Racists need to know that they are "so much better" than people of color. Misogynists need to know that they are "so much better" than women. Homophobes need to know that they are "so much better" than GLBTQ people - and if it takes endorsing civil unions to persuade GLBTQ not to seek marriage, they`ll do it.

    Anything to appear "so much better" than someone else.
  252. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:29 pm
    QueenZira

    Angilion`s rhetoric, like "You`re a poo-eating bottom-feeder, slithering in the filth at the base of humanity." tells us where he is coming from.

    It is carefully chosen hate speech.
  253. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:29 pm
    You falsely accused millions of GLBTQ people of seeking to oppress heterosexuals,

    That`s a lie. Have you ever spoken a true word in your life?

    and when called on that, unleashed a tidal wave of abusive behavior.

    Refusing to accept your lies and libel is a reasonable response.

    Every time you lie about me and I see it, I will say it`s a lie. I`m not going to let it pass.

    You`re angry because I won`t give you the preferential treatment you think you deserve. You`re like a medieval aristocrat furious that a peasant hasn`t tugged his forelock.
  254. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:31 pm
    "I am very glad I am so much better than you."

    This is the heart of prejudice, you know. Prejudice is all about wanting to believe that other people are inferior. It is all about ego. Racists need to know that they are "so much better" than people of color. Misogynists need to know that they are "so much better" than women. Homophobes need to know that they are "so much better" than GLBTQ people - and if it takes endorsing civil unions to persuade GLBTQ not to seek marriage, they`ll do it.

    Anything to appear "so much better" than someone else.

    But I`m so much better than you because you`re a lying bigot and I`m not.

    I`m not judging you on some group bullpoo. I`m judging you on your actions.
  255. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:33 pm
    QueenZira

    Angilion`s rhetoric, like "You`re a poo-eating bottom-feeder, slithering in the filth at the base of humanity." tells us where he is coming from.

    It is carefully chosen hate speech.

    It`s entirely personal to you. I don`t hate you, but I certainly strongly dislike you.

    You may be arrogant and bigoted enough to think that you are all homosexuals, but I assure you that you are not. So your claims that my dislike of you is prejudice against all homosexuals are silly lies and will not become true no matter how many times you repeat them.
  256. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:40 pm
    I`m going to repeat myself again, to make Heureux`s libel more obvious:

    As you well know, my position is that there should be no distinction at all, neither in law nor in social custom, between homosexuality and heterosexuality.

    That is what Heureux is calling homophobia.

    It is therefore obvious that what he calls equality is massive discrimination against hetereosexuals.
  257. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:41 pm
    You may want to tone down the rhetoric though, Angilion, after all, we`re all supposed to be working together now.

    No, we aren`t. Why on earth would would be? Heureux and I are diametrically opposed. I`d no more work with him than I`d work with any other lying bigot.

    In another observation, you guys totally have to get avies or something, it`s hard to follow all of you around the screen sometimes. (ba dum bump)

    avies...sounds like a disease. Maybe a bird form of scabies. I`m not sure I want that :)

    It took me a few minutes to realise you were refering to avatars :)

    I`ve never used one. They`re not needed in a proper forum and they`re not much use in a place like IAB, which can`t really be used as a proper forum. Maybe it`s just because for years I used a smaller screen with a high res, so avatars were tiny.
  258. Profile photo of beefno
    beefno Male 18-29
    76 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:43 pm
    I luV big wordz 2 lolz

    Get a hobby.

    And I don`t mean this crap vvvvvvvvvvv
  259. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:46 pm
    But Angilion, I don`t get that vibe from him at all, and I am heterosexual, see?
  260. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:46 pm
    There`s an interesting program on astronomy that I`ve been meaning to watch on iplayer, so I`m going to make a mug of tea and watch it.

    I`ll probably come back repeatedly over the next few days to make sure that the lies Heureux will no doubt continue to make don`t pass unchallenged.
  261. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 4:51 pm
    But Angilion, I don`t get that vibe from him at all, and I am heterosexual, see?

    I don`t attach much weight to "vibes" in a purely textual media. In person, where I can judge nonverbal communication, I`ll attach some weight to that.
  262. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 5:00 pm
    @Heureux and Angillion

    Crakr stopped spewing his BS and you two are arguing?

  263. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 5:12 pm
    holy poo...i go away for a few hours, come back, and it`s an all-out war. this is why i love IAB.
  264. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 6:36 pm
    Cajun247: I bailed out because it`s no use arguing with a rabid leftist. It`s akin to wrestling in the mud with a pig, You`ll never pin it down and the pig likes it.

    I feel sorry for Angilion becoming his target after I left, even though he and I disagree as well.
  265. Profile photo of kingofqueens
    kingofqueens Male 30-39
    35 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    @Heureux The Romans passage is condemning Homosexuality. It is speaking about God letting people go to their sins... ie: men doing shameful acts to each other.

    I don`t want to change the argument, because it takes study to understand this stuff, but God "keeps" people from their sins. Also, only the holy spirit can reveal Gods word to people... (predestination stuff, if you know what I mean) So in the Romans text, Paul is saying that people did not want to honor God anymore, so he turned them over to their sins. And their sins were homosexuality. There is a good dozen or so verses that condemn homosexuality...like this one
    "1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).
  266. Profile photo of Schr0dinger
    Schr0dinger Male 50-59
    359 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 6:54 pm
    Healing Homosexuality? Really? So its an injury?

    "Hey Paul how you doing after that drunk driver hit you?"

    "Well Steve I am still a bit stiff and sore but the bad news is that I am gay now. Guess this sort of thing happens all the time."

    "Wow man, that`s too bad. But hey, there is a book you really must read..."
  267. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 7:28 pm
    I bailed out because it`s no use arguing with a rabid leftist.

    Sometimes I don`t know why I`m arguing with you anyway.
  268. Profile photo of Swaywithme
    Swaywithme Female 18-29
    3696 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:23 pm
    I think Angilion, Crackr and Heureux just need to have a gang bang and get out the sexual frustration already =/ It`s kind of brutal in here!
  269. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 10:52 pm
    There is a good dozen or so verses that condemn homosexuality

    No, there aren`t.

    There are a dozen or so *mistranslations and very dodgy interpretations* that do so and nearly all of them are Mosaic law anyway. Since Christians ignore virtually all of Mosaic law, it makes no sense to consider just that one law important. What about the other 612?
  270. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 10:54 pm
    ...like this one
    "1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).

    A particularly famous piece of fiction. In reality, it was written in Greek, references unknown social norms for masculinity (Greek? Roman? Jewish? Nobody knows.) and uses a couple of words with no known meaning, so nobody really knows what the verse means. That translation is even more rubbish than the KJV one.

    For a quick intro to the point, just look up `arsenokoitai`. That`s the word translated as "homosexual offenders" in the NIV translation...and they just made it up. No-one knows what the word means. It isn`t used anywhere else.
  271. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 11:08 pm
    More on arsenokoitai...

    `arsen` is a male root. If that is one of the roots of the word, it would make the word a reference to maleness in some manner. It might not be one of the roots - since nobody has any idea what the word means, we can`t know what the roots of it are.

    Let`s assume it is something to do with maleness. It makes sense in context.

    One of the other items in the list of people who won`t inherit the kingdom of god is `malakoi`. It means `people who are malakos` and `malakos` means `soft`. NIV, rather bizarrely, decided to translate it as `male prostitutes`. Does that make any sense to you?

    It`s plausible that `malakoi` was meant to refer to men who are too effeminate and `arsenokoitai` to women who are too masculine (hence why `arsen` might be a root - women who are like men). It would be masculinity and femininity by other standards, though, not ours.

    Nobody knows, but that interpretation makes far more sense than the
  272. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 11:09 pm
    Dammit, cut off early as usual.

    The final sentence should read:

    Nobody knows, but that interpretation makes more sense than the NIV rubbish you quoted.
  273. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 11:16 pm
    If you like, kingofqueens, you can quote any verse from your bible that you think condemns homosexuality and I will be able to explain why you are wrong.

    Any verse you like. I know them all and I know what`s wrong with the "translations".

    It sounds odd to people who have never looked into it and have just accepted whatever they`ve been told without thinking or checking, but after spending many hours looking into it I feel confident in saying that it is perfectly valid for a Christian to think that homosexuality is fine and that Christian scripture does not condemn it at all.
  274. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    January 9, 2011 at 11:26 pm
    oh goodie! we`re going to debate the Bible.

    haven`t done that here in a while... at least 20 seconds or so.
  275. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 1:40 am
    @CrakrJak

    No, you bailed out because you can`t answer my question about who you love/your marital status without exposing yourself as a massive hypocrite.
  276. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10731 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 2:19 am
    @Musuko

    Okay dude seriously that`s a hasty generalization. Furthermore Angilion and Heureux made better arguments against Crakr than you did. All you did was make personal attacks. That`s not an argument.
  277. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 3:08 am
    @Cajun247

    "All you did was make personal attacks. That`s not an argument."

    I was taking some inspiration from the Christian rulebook and doing that whole "judge not lest ye be judge" thing.

    CrakrJak has been engaging in a lot of judgement of gay people like myself. I just want him to submit himself to my judgement in exchange.

    Don`t you think that`s fair? If he`s going to be telling me and others that we can`t marry, to protect its sanctity, I want to be sure that he himself has done nothing to marr the squeaky clean image of marriage.

    How about another biblical rule for you? The one about not casting any stones unless you yourself are free of sin? He`s been casting some pretty big stones all over the place. I want to make sure he`s living by the very rules he is wielding as a weapon against us.

    And so far, he`s evaded revealing anything. A guilty silence, methinks.
  278. Profile photo of megann_exoh
    megann_exoh Female 13-17
    688 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 4:54 am
    i`ve not read any of the comments on this, cuz i don`t wanna read people going IT`S AGAINST THE LAW OF GAWD!, so i`m sorry if im repeating anyone here.

    `it`s against god`s wishes` is NOT a valid argument. god is a belief, and if you don`t hold the belief you don`t have to live by his rules. if you`re a christian, the way you live your life goes against the rules of islam. you, as a christian, wouldn`t be impressed if a muslim came up to you and started attacking you because you don`t pray 5 times a day. IT`S EXACTLY THE SAME. your beliefs are YOURS, so don`t try and impart them on other people. ESPECIALLY when it`s about something the person has no choice over!
    i know some damn non-nice individuals that are christians, and some of the nicest people i know are gay. sure, it works the other way round too, i`m not denying that. my point is, LET PEOPLE LOVE WHO EVER THEY LOVE. it`s not exactly a choice! stop judging people based on who they sleep with!

    urgh, rant o
  279. Profile photo of PierreJeanFR
    PierreJeanFR Male 40-49
    1360 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 6:19 am
    that`s a book for Crakjakass
  280. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 6:27 am
    Musuko42: You can theorize and suppose all you want, But in the end you will be no wiser.
  281. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 7:05 am
    @CrakrJak

    Then how about you stop dictating other people`s love lives until such time as you`re not ashamed of your own?
  282. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 7:21 am
    Musuko42: Your assuming, again, that my silence on my marital status is somehow out of `shame`. Would you also assume that Obama`s reluctance to show his real birth certificate or his college record and papers out of `shame` as well ? I doubt it, and you would then bring up the issue of personal privacy.

    If you won`t condemn Obama for his privacy, then you shouldn`t condemn me either.
  283. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 7:30 am
    @CrakrJak

    "Your assuming, again, that my silence on my marital status is somehow out of `shame`. Would you also assume that Obama`s reluctance to show his real birth certificate or his college record and papers out of `shame` as well?"

    As I recall, he did show his birth certificate. The others I don`t know about.

    If someone in public office weren`t forthcoming with details about their legitimacy, then yes, I would wonder what the reason is, and shame would be a guess.

    "I doubt it, and you would then bring up the issue of personal privacy."

    I don`t think you deserve any personal privacy; you`re busy picking on the personal lives of others. So why aren`t you fair game in response?

    You stick your nose into other people`s affairs, then get a stick up your butt when the same happens back to you?

    Double standards, matey. You reek of them.

    Tell us your marital status. Tell us who you love.
  284. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 7:39 am
    Musuko42: I`ve never asked who`s dick you suck, nor do I care. Whom you love is your business, I have no control over that. Hell you live in Europe, So whatever I believe or vote for or against in America doesn`t affect you at all.

    I choose to maintain my privacy, If that drives you up the wall then perhaps that a bonus.
  285. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 7:42 am
    One quick question. If sexuality is not a choice then does the same apply to pedophiles and those that practice bestiality? No trolling here I just want to know peoples opinions.
  286. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 7:53 am
    @CrakrJak

    "I`ve never asked who`s dick you suck, nor do I care."

    Come now, we know you care. We know you care a LOT. That`s why you keep cropping up on these homosexuality-related threads.

    Honestly, I think you think about dick sucking more often than I do.

    "Hell you live in Europe, So whatever I believe or vote for or against in America doesn`t affect you at all."

    It affects friends of mine over there. Plus I`m bored. The clue`s in the site`s name.

    "I choose to maintain my privacy, If that drives you up the wall then perhaps that a bonus."

    It doesn`t drive me up the wall. It just makes everything you say about marriage and gay rights completely and utterly laughable; because you`re casting all these stones, yet remaining completley against proving that you`re free of sin yourself.

    In otherwords, we all just assume you`re a hypocrite.
  287. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 7:59 am
    @Satkela

    "One quick question. If sexuality is not a choice then does the same apply to pedophiles and those that practice bestiality? No trolling here I just want to know peoples opinions."

    My opinion: yes, it does apply to them equally. The attraction and compulsion is not a choice.

    Acting on it or not, however, is a choice. Acting on homosexuality (sex with consenting adults) does not cause harm (well, beyond the normal; heartbreak, lovesickness, relationship issues, fights, etc...everything you get in any relationship).

    Acting on paedophilia and bestiality does. Because while homosexual sex can be with consenting adults, paedophilia and bestiality, by definition, cannot possibly be with consenting adults, which makes it rape.

    That`s the key distinction.
  288. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 8:01 am
    I think Angilion, Crackr and Heureux just need to have a gang bang and get out the sexual frustration already =/ It`s kind of brutal in here!

  289. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 8:05 am
    Or to put it a little better:

    Rape is what`s wrong.

    The desire that leads to the rape is not what`s wrong, as that desire is not always acted upon. The desire is not chosen. Whether to act upon that choice is.

    Therefore, you cannot punish the desire; only punish those who harm by acting on it.

    If the desire is not acted upon, or if no harm is caused by acting on it, then there is no blame, no punishment.

    And to punish paedophiles or animal lovers who have not caused harm, on the justification that they might cause harm, is like punishing everyone else, heterosexual and homosexual alike, for the rapes they might commit due to their desire for sex with other adults.
  290. Profile photo of elderban99
    elderban99 Male 40-49
    180 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 9:41 am
    @Satkela: One question for you. When did you "chose" to be straight? Oh, wait, you didn`t, you were, I am guessing, born that way?
  291. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 9:42 am
    Satkela: That`s a good question. I`m going to be repeating some people`s posts, I`m sure (because MY GOD, tl;dr). But I would say probably not. Feelings and desires are most of the time uncontrollable... and different from actions and choices. Right?
    It`s not a choice to be in love with someone or sexually attracted to someone, but it is a choice to act on it or `practice` it, as you stated. But even if you don`t act on it, it still exists, right?
    I`ve read from your posts, that you have been attracted to women, but never been sexually involved with a woman, because of your faith. And that`s great. But do you think this makes you straight? In your heart of hearts? ...If so, fine.

    But, in my opinion (if I could be so bold) I would say that you are bisexual, but you are choosing to abstain from practicing.

    I think that pedophiles, beasties, and other people who have sexual desires that are `wrong` are still that way even if they aren`t practicing.
  292. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 9:58 am
    Satkela: Another example. I let`s just say I have `a friend` with a really hot cousin (everyone`s got one... you know who I`m talking about). He`s 29 and rich and funny and sexy and built like a Greek God. I would bone this man from here to Kentucky in a heart beat. BUT- he`s a COUSIN. We played in the kiddy pool together as tots. We have the same Grandmother. Our children would probably be a little retarded :)

    So my moral compass says `wrong`, even though my loins say `Uhhmm... hello there, Sailor". So I would never act on it. But the attraction still exists, right? It still means I`m a perv, right? Right. **ahem**... `my friend`, I mean.
  293. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 11:34 am
    @ Elderban: I chose to be straight when I was 12 and started thinking of boys in a more than friends kind of way.

    @DixxyRarr: Lol your "friend" huh? I get what your saying. To be totally honest with you though the only reason why I`ve ever had a sexual thought about a woman was because of the media. I saw two hot chicks kissing one day and though hmmm what if? I know that it was just the idea of it being so "forbidden" in a sense and even though I have thought about it or once or twice I would never act out on it, not only because of faith but because to "me" being a lesbian or bisexual doesn`t feel right.
  294. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 12:14 pm
    Satkela, you may imagine yourself to be straight, but the reality is you are anything but. How do I know? Because I`m the genuine article and I have never cared about women, period. You may need more time to come to terms with that, and please do. Seek decent resources, talk to the right people who can help you out, (NOT religious cultists).

    Until then, stop posturing, and stop hunting down others who are like you just because of your own insecurities.
  295. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 12:39 pm
    To be totally honest with you though the only reason why I`ve ever had a sexual thought about a woman was because of the media. I saw two hot chicks kissing one day and though hmmm what if?

    I`m going to be frank - you`re not making any sense.

    Media has nothing to do with you having sexual thoughts about other women. If you were completely heterosexual, your reaction to video of two women kissing would not be to fantasise about having sex with another woman. Nor would you be thinking of those women as "hot chicks".

    Seriously, does that really make sense to you?

    You`re bisexual. Simple as that. You`ve made it very clear indeed. You`re a woman who thinks some other women are "hot chicks" and you find the thought of having sex with another woman appealing. It`s really rather silly to think that`s heterosexual.

    You choose to not act on it because you wrongly think your religion disapproves of it, but you`r
  296. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 2:00 pm
    Satkela: Hm. If your feelings of attraction to women are extremely rare, then I don`t think your bi (I sorta think what Queen and Anglion are saying is a bit extreme).

    But, where we aren`t agreeing is on the concepts of choice and sexual attraction. When does sexual attraction or an emotion become reality? When you feel it? Or when you act it out?
    Do you really have control to choose your emotions? To some extent, I think yes. But ALL of them? Are there some emotions out there that are innate and irreversible?

    Why does it matter? Does it make them less valid if they are chosen or if they come from within?

    All rhetorical questions.... Until next time in the great Gay Debate :)
  297. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 2:36 pm
    DixxyRarr, for you, sexuality may be a kaleidoscope of possibilities, but trust those of us who are straight and gay alike(myself and Nidonemo are perfect examples) when we talk about what we experience. The rest of us walk down one lane roads.
  298. Profile photo of kingofqueens
    kingofqueens Male 30-39
    35 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 3:16 pm
    This is taking way to long to read the posts before I reply

    @ Angilion your ideas of translations are ruff at best. Yes the literal meaning of the word malakoi does mean homosexual, but it`s describing the two individuals in the act of homosexuality...the catcher and the pitcher, if you will.
    Since it is possible to debate the trasations of verses with you all day long, and we haven`t even gone to Mosaic law yet, I will just end with this.

    All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

    I beleive God has sustained his word and it`s translation throughout history. I prefer the ESV version myself, but the NIV KJV and some others are commonly accepted versions. If God is real, and he really sent his son to save us, it`s not a stretch to think that the common traslations, the one used around the world, would be sustained by him.

    Angilion are you a Christain? Maybe an Aglican?
  299. Profile photo of kingofqueens
    kingofqueens Male 30-39
    35 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 3:18 pm
    P.S. sorry for all the spelling mistakes, I did not proof read that at all....
  300. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    @ Angilion your ideas of translations are ruff at best. Yes the literal meaning of the word malakoi does mean homosexual

    Since that isn`t what I said and it isn`t true, it`s clear that (a) you haven`t read my posts and (b) you don`t know your subject at all well.

    `malakoi` comes from `malakos`, which means `soft`. It`s used for various different means in various different contexts, sometimes literally soft (as in some types of cloth) and sometimes more metaphorically to indicate a weakness in character (e.g. cowardice).

    Your claim that it literally means "homosexual" shows that you either do not know what you`re talking about or you are lying for the purposes of propaganda.

    So you`re utterly, ludicrously wrong with that one.

    Care to try again? You will be wrong with any verse you try and I will be able to prove it. Step up to the wicket if you think you`re able.
  301. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 4:28 pm
    QueenZira: Oooo, a kaleidoscope! I like that :)
  302. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 4:32 pm
    If God is real, and he really sent his son to save us, it`s not a stretch to think that the common traslations, the one used around the world, would be sustained by him.

    Oh, excellent.

    Many of the common mistranslations and misinterpretations can be unequivocally proven wrong.

    You are now claiming that your god is unequivocally, provably wrong.

    Did you really want to make that argument?
  303. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    January 10, 2011 at 5:27 pm
    @kingofqueens

    What evidence do you have that the bible is "god-breathed"?

    (and no saying "because it says so in the bible". That`d be like me saying I am never wrong, and it must be true because I said it and I`m never wrong).
  304. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    January 11, 2011 at 4:00 am
    @QueenZira: *scoff* Really? I have never got on here "hunting" homosexuals or pushing them into believing something that they didn`t want to. Almost everything I post on this website is purely opinions not meant to sway anyone`s personal beliefs. Who are you to tell me about my sexuality based off of your own? You can`t. We are two different people who lead two totally different lives and lifestyles. If anything having faith in God has saved me and of course I won`t seek "religious cultist". You`re being a hypocrite. You judge me saying that I am being pushy or whatever but then go on to not only insult my beliefs but are telling me to seek "decent resources" and prey tell would that be huh? You? riiiight.

    @Angellion:It`s really rather silly to insist on telling people about themselves, Is it not? I think that if it`s ok for SOME homosexuals to believe that they were born or destined to be gay then it should be ok form me to believe that I am het
  305. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    January 11, 2011 at 10:51 am
    they should make a book named:
    Coming Out Normal
    understanding and healing stupidity
    someone you know needs this book!
    because Richard Cohen really needs it!
  306. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 11, 2011 at 5:26 pm
    @Angellion:It`s really rather silly to insist on telling people about themselves, Is it not?

    You`re telling us about yourself. You`re a woman who is sexually attracted to other women who are, as you put it, "hot chicks". I didn`t tell you that about yourself - you told everyone here that about yourself.

    Or are you claiming that I somehow logged in as you and made those posts? I didn`t. Even if I did know your password, which I don`t, I wouldn`t do that.
  307. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 11, 2011 at 5:28 pm
    Incidentally, all the verses in the Christian bible that might, just might, condemn homosexuality are specific to male people. So even if you think they do condemn homosexuality (and it`s really very far from clear that they do), homosexuality between women is still allowed according to your bible.
  308. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 11, 2011 at 5:43 pm
    If God is real, and he really sent his son to save us, it`s not a stretch to think that the common traslations, the one used around the world, would be sustained by him.

    I`ve already shown why that is complete twaddle, but I`m going to do it again in a different way.

    For over a thousand years the only translation of the Christian bible allowed to exist at all was the Vulgate of Saint Jerome. The church vigorously suppressed any other translation, going as far as to kill the author and burn the translations.

    So, if you`re looking at widely accepted translations, you`ve got to be looking at the Vulgate.

    The Vulgate translates "malakoi" as "molles", which is a good translation into Latin as it also literally means "soft" and was also used to mean all sorts of things, good and bad...but never homosexuality.
  309. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    January 11, 2011 at 5:48 pm
    My key point, obviously, being that different widely accepted translations have different meanings for quite a few things. If, as kingofqueens argued, the widely accepted translations are approved by their god, that means that their god must have been and continues to be changing their mind about what the Christian bible means. So any meaning is the right meaning if enough people think it is.

    I think that if someone wrote a "translation" of the Christian bible that substitutes "Democrats" for "malakoi", plenty of people in the USA would accept it. Which would make it what the Christian god meant, right?

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