Alison Haislip Test Drives The Volt

Submitted by: cobrakiller 6 years ago Science

What do you guys think? It sounds great to me.
There are 89 comments:
Male 44
First mass produced electric car?? lies.

yes the most important feature is the usb port and touch screen /sigh

The generator is good.. but why not diesel.. and any stats on how long that will get you??
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Male 12,365
[quote]Also, the price alone just for the Jaguar name will be rediculous, as well as the new tech not helping the price out.[/quote]

That`s true, but the price won`t be much more ridiculous than an ICE supercar and the most expensive part of the new tech will almost certainly be R&D.

[quote]While I agree gas turbines would be pretty cool, I just don`t see them replacing the ICE, even in hybrids.[/quote]

I think they will be used to some extent, maybe at the more expensive end of the market. I think improvements in battery technology will make hybrids less relevant or irrelevant, maybe before turbines become a mainstream engine.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Yes and no. Gas turbines do have a greater power to weight ratio and can take a variety of fuels, but they are a lot worse at idling and fluctuating loads.[/quote]

I`ll be more precise - they are more efficient than ICEs in the context that I had explicitly stated in my post:

[quote]The basic idea is to use an engine running at constant speed, designed specifically for that speed, to generate electricity to charge batteries that power electric motor(s) that drive the car, or maybe power the motor(s) directly.[/quote]

For a range-extended electric vehicle done that way, gas turbines are more efficient than ICEs.
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Male 14,330
I`d like to test drive Alison Haislip. Yuck all that research money spent and this is the best looking style they could come up with it looks like a ugly clown car! No wonder we had to shovel our tax dollars into this company to keep it going.
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Male 6,694
Yep. Id hit it. The volts cool to but I think Ill stick with my Tahoe.
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Male 1,360
where does your electricity come from?
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Male 133
I might be a little off on the calculations with the quick info I got from wiki, but after all the increases in the price of electricity here in Western Australia... that car would cost around $13 a day to charge. Which really doesn`t make it much lower then small car.
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Male 277
@Angilion "Hence Jaguar`s C-X75 concept hybrid - 2 gas turbines (they`re more efficient than ICEs)"

Yes and no. Gas turbines do have a greater power to weight ratio and can take a variety of fuels, but they are a lot worse at idling and fluctuating loads.

Also, the price alone just for the Jaguar name will be rediculous, as well as the new tech not helping the price out.

While I agree gas turbines would be pretty cool, I just don`t see them replacing the ICE, even in hybrids.
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Male 1,744
wow, angillion, calm down there buddy, no big deal, just go w/ what you like, it`s all good
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Male 12,365
Hence Jaguar`s C-X75 concept hybrid - 2 gas turbines (they`re more efficient than ICEs) and 4 electric motors. 780HP and 1180 lb-ft from electric, 970HP and 1600 lb-ft if it`s set up so that the turbines can be used to drive the car. It would have a range of 70m on battery alone, so it even beats the Volt on that basis. As an added bonus, you can burn a wide variety of stuff in a gas turbine without having to modify it. Petrol, diesel, alcohol, vegetable oil, animal fat, paraffin...almost anything. On standard diesel, the turbines would get about 115mpg (~230mpg each).

The good news is that Jaguar have now decided to actually make it, rather than make a concept car of it. There are problems (e.g. a gas turbine is similar to a jet - it requires vast amounts of air intake and the exhaust is HOT) but the problems seem solvable and they`re looking at 2014 for production.
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Male 12,365
There might be a future for hybrids, but done differently.

The basic idea is to use an engine running at constant speed, designed specifically for that speed, to generate electricity to charge batteries that power electric motor(s) that drive the car, or maybe power the motor(s) directly.

It sounds overly complicated and thus inefficient, but the system has been used on trains for years (diesel-electric) because it is efficient. You can get a surprising efficiency from an ICE running at a constant low speed, much more than enough to offset the 10% loss in charging batteries and the efficiency loss from the extra weight.
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Male 12,365
[quote]8h charge for 50 miles? gonna be a long road trip.[/quote]

Theoretically, it should be possible to get more range.

The Volt apparently has a 16KWh pack. The car is too heavy, but it should still be possible to get 60 miles with regenerative braking. Surely it has regenerative braking. It would be stupid to noy have it.

However, actual road tests have returned a range of about 30-40 miles, depending on conditions. Woefully inadequate.

You can buy some rewiring in your garage or even on your driveway to get a charging point which delivers more power. I don`t know about the USA because the wiring is different, but in the UK you can have 12KW charging points on standard domestic premises without much bother. That would charge 16KWh in about 90 minutes (charging efficiency of 90% is a reasonable goal). Of course, the car needs to be able to accept that input.
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Male 230
8h charge for 50 miles? gonna be a long road trip.
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Male 12,365
In realistic real-world driving:

i) Battery range of the Volt is about 33 miles.

ii) The ICE in the Volt gets about 31.5 mpg urban and about 36 mpg highway.

Testing a Volt

GM give the usual 100,000 miles replacement distance for the batteries. The battery pack is only 16KWh, so it probably costs about $8000-$10000. It`s hard to be sure because EV manufacturers and advocates deliberately and fervently refuse to state actual costs, but that`s a reasonable estimate.

For a Volt on electricity you`re looking at a cost of about 11-13 cents per mile (about 3c for electricity and 8-10c for battery).

For a Volt on gasoline you`re looking at about 9.1c per mile (about 33mpg for combined cycle and $3.09 per gallon for gasoline).
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Male 12,365
[quote]step in the right direction.. but my vote still goes to hydrogen cells.[/quote]

Why? At the moment, they`re far, far less efficient energy carriers than batteries are and nearly all the hydrogen comes from oil anyway. They also use rare materials in the fuel cell, which would restrict mass market use anyway even if they weren`t such a monumental waste of energy. Platinum, for example, doesn`t grow on trees.

Unless you come up with a vastly more efficient way to obtain pure hydrogen, hydrogen fuel cells aren`t even in the running. Then there`s the issue of storing and transporting hydrogen (it`s much harder than you might think) and the issue of not being able to make enough fuel cells because of the rare materials.
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Male 12,365
[quote]oil will last forever, its just going to cost more chances of me trading in my car and bike for some pooty electric motor is 0[/quote]

There`s an electric bike that does a quarter mile in 7.469, crossing the line at 177mph.

There`s a crap 1972 Datsun converted to be wholly electric that does a quarter mile in 10.258, crossing the line at 124mph.

There`s no need for an electric motor to be "pooty". The motor in that Datsun develops ~450HP and ~1250 ft-lbs of torque, i.e. a fair bit of power and a boatload of torque. You`d have to look very hard to find an ICE car with that much torque.

Power doesn`t have to be an issue with EVs. They`re more expensive to buy and more expensive to run and of debateable environmental worth and commercial ones almost all have poor performance (Tesla Roadster has decent performance), but power doesn`t *have* to be an issue with current EV technology.
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Male 12,365
[quote]How much are you spending on electricity to charge it compared to what you`d be spending for gas in a comparable gas powered vehicle? Just wondering if anyones done the math.[/quote]

I have.

You spend *much more* on electricity and battery replacement cost for an EV (EV advocates are desperate for you to ignore that) that you would on fuel for a comparable ICE car.

For a hybrid like this one, an average driver will spend more on fuel anyway, because they`ll mostly be using the ICE and it`s not the most efficient ICE. It barely even counts a hybrid.

Anyone who tells you that EVs are cheaper to run than comparable ICEVs is either ignorant or deceitful, because they just plain aren`t.

If you want some actual numbers, give me some actual cars to compare. I`m not familiar with cars available in the USA, so I don`t know what would be comparable. I could use a comparable car from the UK, if you like.

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Male 1,744
Alison Haislip >>> Olivia Munn

For the non-math inclined, ">>>" means "muuuuch greater than"

And Nissan is already commercially advertising their 100% electrical car, still waiting on the ad for this car, just sayin`
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Male 149
How much are you spending on electricity to charge it compared to what you`d be spending for gas in a comparable gas powered vehicle? Just wondering if anyones done the math.
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Male 1,252
step in the right direction.. but my vote still goes to hydrogen cells.
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Male 44
cars like these will never take off where i live. western australia is a sprawling city 25 to 50 miles would get you half way to the northen suburbs. an why is it that people forget that most power still comes from big generators anyway
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Male 759
Reasons this will not work:

1) People with apartments aren`t going to run 6 stories of extension cords out their windows

2) 25-50 mile range per charge; I have a 25 mile commute to work each way. You think my employer wants me plugging in to the office wall outlets?

3) When people finally realize the damage caused by mining the stuff that goes into a NiCAD battery, they won`t think this is so "green"

4) You think your mechanic is going to work on this giant computer? HAH! You`ll be paying double for half the work.

Electricity is still burning energy, you`re just moving the pollution from your tailpipe to the electric company and battery makers. So feel good about yourself passing the buck while still managing to maintain the status quo.
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Male 626
Lol. The volt doesn`t go very far before the gas has to kick in. Unless you need to travel long distances, you should get the Nissan Leaf.
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Male 541
down with oil, up with electricity!
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Male 2,402
The cost is not worth it until the battery technology changes. Also I wonder what they do with all the old batteries. I can see the future of 2 billion batteries being a toxic waste issue. Go back to horse carts. You can take the manure and use it for fuel.
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Male 15,832
I like that it has one of the "lowest coefficient of drags."
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Male 12,365
I`m not asking people to take my word for any of this. Please, check for yourselves.

Just compare actual running costs on a like for like basis. For an EV, you need to look at electricity cost plus replacement battery cost. It`s the battery replacement cost that`s the main running cost.

It`s alleged in some circles that Nissan has managed to massively reduce the price of batteries, down to only $9000 for a 24KWh pack. That`s *half* the price other companies are giving. Nissan say the pack will need to be replaced every 100,000 miles - that works out at 9c per mile. The electricity cost of the Leaf is about 3c per mile. If the claims of Nissan`s halving of battery prices are not true, you`re looking at 18c per mile for batteries and the 3c per mile for electricity.

For ICEV costs, consider how much is tax. They will tax EV use as much as ICEV use if more than a handful of people use them - they will not just ignore the loss of tax revenue.
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Male 12,365
EVs would be truly viable and maybe even cheaper to run than ICEVs if these things happen:

i) The mass to charge ratio of batteries drops to about a tenth of what it is now.

ii) The volume to charge ratio also has a large reduction, though half would do for that.

iii) The cost of batteries drops to about a fifth of what it is now or the rate of maximum charge loss of batteries drops as much. The latter would leave EVs being far more expensive than ICEVs but would cut the running costs so you might be able to recoup the difference in your lifetime.

iv) The rare (or rare-ish) materials use of batteries drops dramatically, i.e. we can actually make enough batteries for the EVs.

v) The environmental cost of making them decreases a lot.

vi) Electricity generation can be increased by a third (assuming no other increase in use of electricity), much more if commercial vehicles go electric as well.
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Male 12,365
I don`t have the usual "OMG electric cars are wonderful in every way they heal the planet and cost half a bent penny a year to run" bias. So I seem biased from a normal viewpoint. I`m also annoyed at the scale of the deception from EV advocates, which harshens my posts.

But what I can do and they can`t is support my arguments and give relevant numbers (as opposed to just parts of some numbers).

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Male 10,440
Alright Angilion, you win. EVs are not cut out for mainstream use. Yet.

... you seem a little biased though...

Anyway, I`ll be sure to take a close look at the numbers when I buy my next car.
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Male 1,107
I`ll keep driving my pickup for now, thanks. U mad, hippies?
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Male 12,365
[quote">I`m pretty sure this thing will do performance wise what every other car at 150HP will do.[/quote">

Yes, because you`ll be running an ICE in it just like in an ICE car.

An EV with 150HP would perform somewhat differently to an ICEV with 150HP. With an EV, you get better low-end acceleration and worse high-end acceleration leading to a lower top speed. Wbich is better unless you`re track racing.

An EV with more power than that can have savage low-end acceleration. There`s an EV with about 400hp that does 0-60 in about 1.8s and a quarter mile in about 10.3s. Top speed is only 129mph though - see what I mean about track racing?

Annoying kids - mute is a good idea

He`s improved it a bit since then.

EVs have potential, but current technology doesn`t cut it, the running costs are much too high and the
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Male 12,365
It looks like I have a huge downer on EVs. I don`t. I do have a huge downer on the massively misleading and sometimes downright deceitful advocacy of EVs.

Current EVs are much more expensive to run, vastly more expensive in total cost of ownership (because their purchase price is much higher), are of arguable environmental value in most places (there`s a very large environmental cost to current battery production and there`s an environmental cost to electricity generation). So much is completely ignored by EV advocates that I`m inclined to conclude that most of them must be lying because they can`t be that ignorant.

EVs do reduce air pollution. Or they would if they replaced ICEVs. Which they can`t do, because we can`t generate enough electricity to power them and we can`t make enough batteries for them either.

Basically, the technology just doesn`t cut it yet.
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Male 12,365
[quote]25-50 miles in a charge....Seriously? That`s really not enough. And to wiat 8 hours to get it to a full charge means that you`re going to be using the back up gas generator a lot if you`re planning on going anywhere outside of 25 miles from your house.[/quote]

Hybrids are really not very good at all. The best of them uses *more* fossil fuel than an economical ICEV. You buy a hybrid if you`re ignorant or if you`re trying to improve your image in the eyes of people who are ignorant. Hybrids with an almost useless electric range are particularly bad.

"I`m going to put a 9V battery in my Lexus and call it a hybrid". Clarkson hyperbole, but in this case he has a legitimate point.
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Male 56
I think the car`s intended for people who only drive roughly 20-30 miles per day. I usually don`t drive more than 20 on a workday.
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Male 12,365
[quote]25-50miles? You`re pooting me?
The tesla goes like 180?[/quote]

211 miles on a standard combined cycle test including the effects of regenerative braking (which is fair because they`d be including in real driving).

The Tesla has a high capacity battery pack (54KWh). Of course, that also means it takes proportionally longer to charge. The distance you can drive an EV per KWh doesn`t vary greatly between the EVs commercially available at the moment and probably won`t change very much in the future. An electric drivetrain is already quite efficient, so there isn`t scope for huge improvements. Comparing current EVs is like comparing ICEVs with the same mpg but different fuel tank sizes - the ones with bigger tanks will have a bigger range.

The most recent stated price for a Tesla battery replacement is US$36,000 and Tesla say it will need replacing about every 100,000 miles. So there`s a cost of 36 cents per mile.
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Male 12,365
"...you can drive it for a buck fifty a day. So what does that mean?"

It means that people are lying to you and you`ve believed it.

At the moment, electric cars are more expensive to run than comparable ICE cars and the total cost of ownership is vastly higher. At the moment, an EV is a very expensive political statement.

If anyone thinks I`m wrong, I`ll spend a few posts giving actual cost comparisons. I`ll even get the USA figures if anyone there cares.

I`ve just done a comparison for the Nissan Leaf, which has just come out over here and is a reasonably decent car with a range of ~100 miles with regenerative braking (official range, going just on an initial full charge, is 70 miles). I bent over backwards to bias the comparison in favour of the EV and I still came up with a breakeven figure of 2.5 million miles.
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Male 2,506
25-50miles? You`re pooting me?
The tesla goes like 180?
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Male 58
This video solidifies my point that girls shouldn`t review cars. I want to know what Jeremy Clarkson has to say about this.
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Female 1,515
25-50 miles in a charge....Seriously? That`s really not enough. And to wiat 8 hours to get it to a full charge means that you`re going to be using the back up gas generator a lot if you`re planning on going anywhere outside of 25 miles from your house.
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Male 1,182
oil will last forever, its just going to cost more chances of me trading in my car and bike for some pooty electric motor is 0
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Male 510
50 miles in a charge? thats less than an hour on the highway. drating useless...
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Male 1,182
i hated this bitch
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Male 2,988
GM already proved they could make a fully electric car and did so years ago. This is nothing new, just go watch the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car". Nothing imoressive here. In fact it doesn`t look like they have even attempted to improve the technology at all since the events of that documentary took place.

Also, that car does NOT look sexy. It looks like a piece of poo.
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Male 25,416
*** recharge every day, these cars are bad, when running on petrol it has worse mile per gallon than a humvee, Althrough your charging with power, the coal that is bernt to make that much power actually is more painful to the worlds atmosphere.
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Male 5,194
I call BS. That 110V plug carries a maximum of 20amps. That`s 2200 watts, or about 3hp. Assuming a 100% conversion efficiency, that would be 30hp for 0.8hours, or 48 minutes. Unless it`s downhill both ways, you probably aren`t even going to make it to work and back.
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Male 633
Crappy left green eco crap...
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Male 798
Oh, so it`s not even completely electric? Ok cool, good to see another Prius out there.
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Male 74
Torison, they were both being sold in December 2010. probably within days of each other. You should probably not worry your pretty princess brain and not be so doubting.
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Male 145
Not a bad looking car, until you get to that hideous rear end. Christ, it looks like a Prius. So disappointing.
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Male 2,868
@Cruddup-
Electric car technology has been around for over 150 years.
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Male 38
Just looked up the specs for the Leaf interestingly on full charge it`ll do 109 miles so more that double what the volt will do.
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Female 676
I agree with torisen
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Male 40
Pretty sure the Nissan Leaf was the first all electric mass produced car. If they get that wrong, this is either badly informed which puts the rest of their data at risk or a paid and deliberately misleading commercial which makes me doubt EVERYTHING they say.
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Male 730
I miss G4:( stupid Directv
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Male 56
I`d give electric car technology a few years to mature before committing to a purchase. It`s time we move away from internal combustion.
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Male 10,440
I like it.

I was rudely reminded that this was "like" an advertisement by people here. If I`ve ever resented or insulted anything on these "threads", then it`s all your fault.

Anyway, this comment was funny:
[quote] Surely if the car didn`t have a 30gb hard drive etc. the electricity would last longer and the car could go further?.......[/quote]

That`s just stupid.
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I`m pretty sure this thing will do performance wise what every other car at 150HP will do.

You could say that because the power comes from the wall it therefore mostly comes from fossil fuels anyway. The problem with this is that a gasoline engine is already horribly inefficient, this car removes the burden from you and places it on the power grid, which should be adapting to cleaner sources anyway. If you live in Denmark, for instance, and you get one of these, then you unquestionably are reducing overall emissions no matter how you look at it.
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Male 503
now... if only they could make an electric car with some range on it for road trips... or at a price a little bit more accessible to a normal human being.
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Male 12
Say what you will about this specific car but there are more attractive electric cars with much higher distance per charge and less charge time being made/going into production soon. (Like the Tesla S, up to 300 kilometers a charge, and very sexy in my opinion. This should be plenty for your daily commute and it`s fully electric)

Also, saying that the electricity comes from burning fossil fuels is a weak argument. Yes, maybe it`s true now but at least with electric cars it`s possible the energy you`re using is from sustainable sources. We`re moving towards mainly sustainable energy, might as well start building that electric car infrastructure.



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Male 5,019
Hmm CrakrJak here in Europe we have some sperimental places for electro cars and they have placed columns on the street where you can charge your car while is parked.

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Male 812
About time they made electric cars appear sexy. Oil isn`t going to last forever, kids.
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Male 2,436
It`s an ugly piece of crap. Definitely not for me.
If I ever pull up next to one, I will leave it in a cloud of smoke from my tire shredding burnout.
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Male 17,512
You`re pretty much SOL if you don`t have a garage or own a house, with that car.
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Male 5,019
Yep there is still the problem of autonomy of the battery, but they are also studing a solution. One possible solution is to have places where you go with your car and they replace your exausted battery with one fully charged and all is automatic,so no more time to wait for recharge.
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Male 490
@CaptainPat look up the Tesla its an electric car modeled off the lotus elise.
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Male 5,019
CaptainPat Well also if i don`t find this car attractive i can expalin to you why all are like that. They must have a really low CX so they have created this kind of car not to be beautifull but to have the maximum coefficient of air penetration.Less friction they have with air and less they consume.
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Male 197
i like it. not practical for some people but hopefully this is the beginning of something that will work for everyone in the future.
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Male 541
I think the extra dollar you spend to fill up a car with gas is worth it. in my car at least, goes the same distance (30 something miles per gallon), and I would totally pay just 1 dollar more to not have to wait 8 hours.
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Male 1,584
i think i would be more into these hippy cars if they didnt all look like ugly space robots. I mean, things like this, and the prius are all ugly as hell. why cand you make an electric/hyrbrid car that doesnt look like poo?
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Male 256
One of the biggest issue with charging your own car is just that, charging it. How many of you have a spot that you can park this and charge it up? No drive way or apartment parking would rule out a large number of people. Than there`s the issue of cabling the power point. But 25-50 miles? That`s poor very poor. I think the average commute in the UK is 16 miles one way. Based on this you would be using the "backup generator" almost everyday. The mpg when using the generator is only 37. That`s also poor, I drive a corsa and I get 45+mpg. Given the above how much does this cost per mile to drive? I`m guessing a lot more than a petrol car...... which wins nothing.
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Male 357
you know why it`s here, mcfudge? because IAB wants to promote it`s liberal agenda.

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Male 126
What some people fail to realize is that a lot of available electricity goes wasted at night because it isn`t being used. If people were to charge their cars overnight then it would be a good way to use this otherwise wasted electricity. This is especially true if the source of electricity is from nuclear power plants, which can take days to start-up or shut-down, so they operate all the time. Of course if everyone had one then there might be some problems but from the comments here not everyone plans on getting one.
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Male 537
Why is this on IAB?

And why do people think they know what they are talking about? The "electricity uses fuels too!" argument was valid like 10 years ago, but not with today`s battery technologies. You can get watt hours from small amounts of fuel, which is then stored in high capacity/efficiency lipo batteries. It literally uses a few dollars worth of fuel to charge that car.
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Male 2,859
Waiting on the Tesla S, then I might look at electric.
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Male 359
I hope they make an E-car for men someday.
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Male 772
Lots of negativity here... at least someone`s trying to make a commercially viable electric car. Maybe they haven`t done it very well, but it`s just the first step in the right direction.
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Female 2,120
"8 hours later you`ve got a full charge."
LOL.
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Male 363
Ok, so where exactly do you think the electricity that you charge this vehicle comes from? Yep, you guessed it, fossil fuels...until they make these cars go for hundreds of miles on a charge, they wont be worth the money...
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Male 54
Compare to the Nissan Leaf and it doesn`t look so "amazing", but then this lady doesn`t make it look amazing anyway... wasted my time.
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Male 2,033
Who is this person and why should I care?

Is this just IAB making more advertising money?
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Male 1,108
The tesla does smart sh*t.
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Male 220
Who the hell is Alison Haislip and why should I listen to her sell cars?
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Male 220
"All guys like to look under the hood" - great interviewing question??!?!? WTF. I hope she didn`t hit the cyclists as she was busy pointing at the dash. Who paid for this ad - Chevy?
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Male 8
Jonno22:
I`m sure that a 30gb hard drive uses a LOT less power than the electric motor does. Without the hard drive, it probably wouldn`t make any noticeable difference

and Handsompod:
You think an electric car is going to have superb handling? It`s made for efficiency, not performance.
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Male 1,108
Not a word about handling. Oh wait, chevvy don`t do that on cars do they.
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Male 55
Surely if the car didn`t have a 30gb hard drive etc. the electricity would last longer and the car could go further?.......
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Male 6
25-50 miles per charge? I guess this is only for people with short commutes who are guaranteed not to get stuck in heavy traffic... According to Chevy`s website when driven in hybrid mode (with the 4 cylinder 1.4L gas engine on) it has a range of about 375 miles, but then it`s not a full electric, is it?
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Male 36,590
2:28 it seems to emit a LOT of "smug"... lolz!

It still has a gasoline engine, better than getting stranded but is it still an "all electric" car? I suppose so since the gas motor isn`t running all the time, but still.
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Male 7,593
Link: Alison Haislip Test Drives The Volt [Rate Link] - What do you guys think? It sounds great to me.
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