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Date: 12/05/10 08:49 AM

472 Responses to Teacher Sued For Criticizing Creationism

  1. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:51 am
    Link: Teacher Sued For Criticizing Creationism - Teacher went on an inappropriate rant, but yet is sued for rightfully calling creationism `Superstitious nonsense.` WTF?
  2. Profile photo of TheHyra
    TheHyra Male 13-17
    211 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:00 am
    why is his name chad?
  3. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:02 am
    Haha, Chad.
  4. Profile photo of alisia
    alisia Female 18-29
    166 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:03 am
    OMG you can sue for anything now. Yeah a teacher should be respectful of people`s beliefs but it`s true, "Jesus glasses" do askew the truth. It`s true that strong believers pick and choose from their religion what they need to bash and judge other people.
  5. Profile photo of hwkiller
    hwkiller Male 18-29
    490 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:04 am
    For "rightfully" calling creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

    Noooo, that title isn`t incredibly biased at all.

    I`m religious, but I`m more of an theological darwinist than I am one for intelligent design, but c`mon IAB. It wasn`t his place to discuss such an issue. It wasn`t professional, and it`s unscientific, tbh.

    Yes, unscientific. Science shouldn`t even be touching theological matters, because those aren`t within the scientific boundaries.
  6. Profile photo of coffeekoneko
    coffeekoneko Female 18-29
    1008 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:04 am
    So by exercising his constitutional right of free speech, this teacher is taking away this student`s right to free speech.

    Times sure have changed since I was a schoolgirl.
  7. Profile photo of hwkiller
    hwkiller Male 18-29
    490 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:06 am
    I`d like to add that I don`t support his being sued, but surely others can agree that his rant was inappropriate.

    The title doesn`t even make sense to me. He went on an inappropriate rant, YET was sued?
    It was inappropriate. I don`t think he should be sued, but certainly isn`t his position to discuss a matter like that.
  8. Profile photo of champbronc3
    champbronc3 Male 40-49
    118 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:07 am
    What a douche. (The kid)
  9. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:07 am
    On the one hand, the kid is right. A teacher should not be drawing conclusions for his students. Especially not a history teacher. The whole point in history is to provide "facts" and allow the students to arrive at their own conclusions; to decipher meaning from the material presented to them. It`s especially unprofessional to get political in a classroom and openly bash religion.

    On the other hand, f*ck creationism and their any-means-necessary tactic to shove their pseudo-scientific bullsh*t into the heads of students.
  10. Profile photo of Megido
    Megido Male 18-29
    439 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:09 am
    Maybe it`s just me but it`d seem like a rather substantial chunk of the appropriate material for a class in European history would indeed involve religion.

    Also i agree, it is superstitious nonsense. How is somerthing that there is zero proof of and requires unquestioning, blind faith to believe NOT superstitious nonsense?
  11. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7378 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:09 am
    Teacher should have paid for a competent lawyer. Religion is a fraud on the weak minded masses and yeah it`s been proven in court and should be taught in schools.
  12. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36679 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:10 am
    Though I agree with the Professor, the class room is not the place for his personal soap box.

    Sued? You can sue for action, not just cash. If the student sued to "stay his stupid mouth" then okay. Disciplinary action, fine. But not money.
  13. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4682 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:10 am
    Suing is going a bit far but I agree with the kid. It`s a classroom, teachers should remain neutral about these issues (when teaching kids at least).
  14. Profile photo of Samuelsoon
    Samuelsoon Male 18-29
    346 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:10 am
    I agree with the kid, school is not the place for any religious discussion. Oh and btw im an athiest, and think Creationism is rediculous.
  15. Profile photo of Ghostofme16
    Ghostofme16 Female 18-29
    386 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:11 am
    That teacher is awesome. drat that kid.
  16. Profile photo of champbronc3
    champbronc3 Male 40-49
    118 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:13 am
    Actually I have to change my mind. I don`t like conservatives, but the teacher shouldn`t mix religion and education so heavily. It isn`t right...
  17. Profile photo of repost
    repost Male 13-17
    190 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:13 am
    wouldn`t it be easier to just take it to higher authorities within the school.
    Seems to me like he`s a fame/money grabbing idiot
    What he should of done is talk in private to the teacher about how he isn`t comfortable with the comments etc then taken it further, not secretly filmed it to take to court
  18. Profile photo of FrigginMo
    FrigginMo Male 18-29
    266 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:20 am
    I loled at "but yet"
  19. Profile photo of ApostleT
    ApostleT Male 18-29
    182 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:20 am
    "sued for rightfully calling creationism `Superstitious nonsense.` WTF"

    Seriously, IAB? If people don`t want Christians criticizing and shoving their views in other peoples faces, maybe the rest of the world should try to do the same?
  20. Profile photo of newbzoorz
    newbzoorz Male 13-17
    217 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:22 am
    I fully agree with the teacher, but the classroom is the wrong place to rant about this. I really hate that kid. He wasn`t insulted, he just knew he could get some money and fame off this.
  21. Profile photo of hwkiller
    hwkiller Male 18-29
    490 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:25 am
    @newbzoorz,
    1) How do you know he wasn`t insulted?
    2) Even if he wasn`t, he was taking action against something he viewed was inappropriate for the classroom.

    Man, talk about a perfect example of the fundamental attribution error.
  22. Profile photo of BrimstoneOne
    BrimstoneOne Male 30-39
    2229 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:29 am
    Of course this is nonsense is brought you by ...Fox News channel. The height of stupid, brought to the `masses` by conservative idiots, to be "consumed" by fundamentalist nut cases.

  23. Profile photo of newbzoorz
    newbzoorz Male 13-17
    217 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:29 am
    @hwkiller If he was insulted, he would have gone to the school board first. Instead his first thought is to sue. I don`t care what you say, that is ridiculous.
  24. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:32 am
    It`s a classroom, teachers should remain neutral about these issues (when teaching kids at least).
    They absolutely should not. A teacher is supposed to educate their students. If I asked my schoolteacher what Ohm`s Law was, I would want him to reply "I = V/R", not "I am to remain neutral on this issue".
  25. Profile photo of hwkiller
    hwkiller Male 18-29
    490 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:33 am
    @newbzoorz
    I wasn`t aware that, somewhere, written in stone it is officially known that when people are insulted, they won`t sue, but rather take a road of a lesser magnitude.

    As I said, I don`t agree with his suing, but to say his goal was to be famous is an uninformed conclusion.
  26. Profile photo of newbzoorz
    newbzoorz Male 13-17
    217 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:33 am
    @hwkiller If he was insulted, he would have gone to the school board first. Instead his first thought is to sue. I don`t care what you say, that is ridiculous.
  27. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:35 am
    Religion 1
    Logic 99 Trillion
  28. Profile photo of Sarph
    Sarph Male 18-29
    194 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:36 am
    The idea of suing your teacher is too American for me to understand. You people amaze me.
  29. Profile photo of ApostleT
    ApostleT Male 18-29
    182 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:36 am
    "A teacher is supposed to educate their students. If I asked my schoolteacher what Ohm`s Law was, I would want him to reply "I = V/R", not `I am to remain neutral on this issue`."

    Terrible analogy. Separation of church and state is not akin to separation of state and science, which is basically what your comparison is saying.
  30. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:45 am
    "The idea of suing your teacher is too American for me to understand."

    Nauseating, isn`t it? Not all Americans are this litigious though.
  31. Profile photo of Sarph
    Sarph Male 18-29
    194 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:47 am
    @ ApostleT, asking a question about Ohm`s Law does indeed force the teacher to make the assumption that Ohm`s Law is true (or at least to point to the fact that this is only one version of the "truth"), and that brings on a lot of other assumptions about physics in general that do not correlate with religion.

    Perhaps the teacher wouldn`t have to say "I have to remain neutral", but wouldn`t you quickly tire of a long list of assumptions when asking a fairly simple question?

    Having teachers stuff student`s throats with anti-religion propaganda (because that`s what it is) is just as silly and stupid as stuffing down religious propaganda. Especially since intelligent people would react negatively to propaganda no matter where it came from.

    As for the video, I still don`t fathom why the student would sue his teacher - to prove a point? That some people just can`t handle the fact that people have different opinions and instead of buckling up and
  32. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:48 am
    @ApostleT
    no, he`s saying teachers should be allowed to teach the truth, even the POPE realizes creationism makes no sense
    (although that`s doesn`t fully describe ohm`s law)
  33. Profile photo of taelmx
    taelmx Female 18-29
    247 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:50 am
    Isn`t his suing a violation of the Teacher`s free speech?
  34. Profile photo of Sarph
    Sarph Male 18-29
    194 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:51 am
    .. a) Gandhi style; asking why they have those opinions and really try to understand them,
    b) having a dialogue to present your arguments in order to convince them otherwise,
    c) a mix of both.

    He proves that he is not capable of any of the options, which is having a dialogue, and instead makes a big deal out of it ending up in costing society a lot more. Neither does he prove that he is right, he only proves that he is incapable of taking criticism to his beliefs and such uses said right to criticize against people in a rather cowardly way if you ask me.
  35. Profile photo of hatface
    hatface Male 18-29
    605 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:53 am
    Wait how was what the teacher said a `clear violation of first amendment?`
  36. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:55 am
    My history teacher (a great guy, by the way) would never even touch the subject of religion.

    We had almost 50/50 christians and muslims in class. One day an heated argument about Charles Darwin escalated. The teacher held up his pen, and dropped it to the floor. And then he said: "the pen hit the floor. Was that something i saw happen, or something i believe happened?"

    "That, is the difference between religion and history: we disguss things that occur infront of us, as in science and math as well as history."

    "Believe is something else, and not a subject in school. The topic will not be disgussed."
  37. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:57 am
    While I do believe that creationism is nonsense, I don`t believe it is appropriate for teachers to ridicule their students beliefs. I`m glad this a$$hole got sued.
  38. Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:59 am
    if the instructor had said that creationism has little or no scientific basis, he would not have lost the case. It was less a case of what he said, and more a case of how he said it. superstitious nonsense could be considered offensive, and an expression of opinion.
  39. Profile photo of hwkiller
    hwkiller Male 18-29
    490 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:01 am
    @Chimmeychang,
    Exactly.
    Providing the facts, that creationism is not scientifically supported, is fine.

    Ridiculing Christians and Christianity as a whole with insulting statements is not fine. That`s not the role of a teacher.
  40. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:02 am
    "Wait how was what the teacher said a `clear violation of first amendment?`"

    I would say that it is because he stepped over the line between teaching science and preaching it. He was expressing a very strong OPINION on religion in the classroom, and opinion which favors secularism over all religions. While this doesn`t DIRECTLY violate the First Amendment by establishing a law impeding the free exercise of religion, he violated the spirit of the First Amendment by creating an atmosphere where his students are made to feel stupid for having religious beliefs.
  41. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:07 am
    How is it liberal to tell kids the truth? Creationism is patently wrong, and mythological. Well, whatever.
  42. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:10 am
    People should feel stupid for having religious beliefs without evidence. You know what? How about all you religious folks can do blood-letting and leeches, and carving your skulls up to release the evil spirits instead of modern medicine--since science is the devil. I think you should have to sign a waver or something, because your faith must be tested if you need any help whatsoever outside of god to survive. It was just your time, no?
  43. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:12 am
    Q "Wait how was what the teacher said a `clear violation of first amendment?"

    A Everyone (especially those who have never read it) ignore the second half of this statement from the first amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

    If the first part of this statement can be used as justification for not talking about religion in school, then the second half also protects religion from being bashed in school.
  44. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:13 am
    Imagine another hateful, intolerant lib educator from southern California, that can`t just teach his subject but instead wants to indoctrinate the children of the masses with his political views?

    Does he sound angry, and filled with hate towards those that don`t agree with his values or views?
    All the while representing his political, moral point of view as tolerant and inclusive?

    Imagine that?

    The mistake he made isn`t in his views about creationism, religion, or conservatives. He has a right to believe what he will. The mistake is that he is paid to teach History, not his politics. So Mr. AngryTeacher just teach and wait until you get home where you can to turn on MSNBC and agree with Olberman, Maddow or the others that share your opinons.
  45. Profile photo of tn11
    tn11 Male 18-29
    1587 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:22 am
    wait... I`m shocked this wasn`t on Fox News until the court case was OVER...
  46. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:23 am
    Why do idiots from the midwest always think Liberal = Atheist, and Conservative = Christian?

    In fact, why people think politics has anything to do with religious philosophy is beyond me. I`ve met plenty of religious liberals, and atheist conservatives.
  47. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:23 am
    Q "Isn`t his suing a violation of the Teacher`s free speech?"

    A No, because the classroom is not the forum to exercise free speech. The teacher is there to teach a class on European history. If teachers were allowed to exercise free speech in class then a teacher could also teach religion or pedophilia for that matter if they so desired.
    Imagine what would happen if he dared to say that he believed in religion, or even mentioned that it is scientifically possible that God created our universe?
  48. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:24 am
    The teacher is right, but he presented it in a wrong way in a wrong class and in a wrong country while doing a wrong job. A teacher in a class is held to different standards, and rightly so.

    Although I would like to see context and unbiased reporting, because this reporting is so biased that it`s unwise to use it to draw conclusions as to what actually happened.

    I`m willing to bet that a large majority of the people who find the statement that creationism is superstitious nonsense offensive are hypocrites who think almost all creationism is superstitious nonsense. Just not their own creation story.

    As for being a clear violation of the first amendment - bullpoo. The presenter obviously hasn`t read the first amendment.

    An indirect violation because he was acting in a position of authority, maybe. A clear violation because he had plenipotentiary powers of the USA congress and his word is law...ridiculous.
  49. Profile photo of Blackmage53
    Blackmage53 Male 13-17
    25 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:27 am
    This is really old news, happened some odd years ago?
  50. Profile photo of DHalo
    DHalo Male 13-17
    10 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:27 am
    See, the problem here isn`t his beliefs. I`m a Christian, and yet one of my friends in an Atheist. We got along because we agreed to disagree. We once in a while had a discussion about it and it was very stimulating and thought provoking.

    The problem is respect. None of you who bash the ever living hell out of theological believers has any respect for the other party. What you`re doing is labeling an entire group by their loudest, most annoying voices, which is honestly something intelligent people DON`T do, because it isn`t objective thinking. You`re sitting here trying to tell me that Christianity is utter nonsense and calling me a nutjob when I am a person who respects others` opinions.

    I think those of you who are sitting here bashing people who believe in a God need to sit back and wonder if you`re just as bad as the ones trying to shove it down YOUR throats.
  51. Profile photo of tenty
    tenty Male 18-29
    425 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:30 am
    Teacher`s an idiot, the kid`s a prick.
  52. Profile photo of roariamadino
    roariamadino Male 18-29
    270 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:30 am
    good work chad, drating slimeball.
  53. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:33 am
    Imagine what would happen if he dared to say that he believed in religion, or even mentioned that it is scientifically possible that God created our universe?

    Nothing.

    It isn`t forbidden for a teacher to be a theist.

    The questions of whether the universe was created by some higher power and whether that higher power was the Abrahamic god are not scientific, so he`d be wrong to say that. It would be an issue if he was teaching science, because it would indicate that his understanding of science was badly flawed.

    Science doesn`t rule out the idea that the universe was created. That`s a non-falsifiable hypothesis and so has nothing to do with science. Ditto for any specific god or gods.

    Creationism in practice is usually very different because it usually teaches things that are proven false.
  54. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:40 am
    Telling Christians, Like myself, That their beliefs are `superstitious nonsense` is asinine.

    The theories of the `Big bang` and `Evolution` have more holes in them than cheesecloth, But let`s bash Christians to make us look better </sarcasm>
  55. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:41 am
    Although I would like to see context and unbiased reporting

    According to the teacher he sends home at the beginning of each year a letter for the parents to sign that states something along the lines of "there will be many discussions in this class which may be provocative, it is to encourage free thinking and discussions. If you have a problem with any of the topics discussed come and see me to talk about it".

    Also in European History religion plays a large part in our history. To ignore the religion involved would be wrong.

    If someone could clarify for me, isn`t the 1st ammendement to protect freedom of speech and the freedom to believe in ones religion? It seems to me the teacher is being sued for expressing a different opinion and that is somehow a breech of the first ammendement?
  56. Profile photo of apk892
    apk892 Male 13-17
    183 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:42 am
    This whole video just pisses me off. They make it sound like the teacher was torturing the poor kid. I don`t even get why the damn kid sued his teacher. This whole thing could`ve been solved with a simple talk between the student, the teacher, and possibly the students dean/counselor.

    It`s a European History class. People should have listened to what the professor has to say because it is a very valid opinion on a lot of issues involving religion. It doesn`t matter how religious the students are, religion was and still is a huge reason for why countries go to war. His rant probably started with why he thought religion was stupid because it oppressed poor people and was the reason for many wars.
  57. Profile photo of Buiadh
    Buiadh Male 30-39
    6739 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:44 am
    My God, you can get sued for THAT?

    The world has truely gone drating apepoo.
  58. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:48 am
    I don`t even get why the damn kid sued his teacher.

    The usual motive - power. Money is a likely motive as well, as is fame, but it`s mostly about power. The student has now demonstrated his power to control the teacher.

    This whole thing could`ve been solved with a simple talk between the student, the teacher, and possibly the students dean/counselor.

    Which wouldn`t have given the student an opportunity to take and use power, nor would it have given him any fame, nor would it have given him any money.
  59. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:49 am
    @Angilion

    "Nothing.

    It isn`t forbidden for a teacher to be a theist.
    "

    Agreed. Nor is it forbidden for a teacher to be Muslim, Christian, or a Raelian. But the context of my statement is free speech in a classroom, not personal beliefs.
  60. Profile photo of crazy4ruger
    crazy4ruger Female 18-29
    32 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:50 am
    that kid looks like a young heath ledger
  61. Profile photo of Intaresting
    Intaresting Male 18-29
    812 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:52 am
    Crazy people need the law to protect their delusioned reality. Religion should never have been part of school or government.
  62. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:56 am
    "The theories of the `Big bang` and `Evolution` have more holes in them than cheesecloth, But let`s bash Christians to make us look better </sarcasm>"

    Evolution is a fact. The Big Bang is a measurable fact as well. Where do you people get your education? It`s just astounding that so many people claim so much and know so little about what they claim. At least I read the bible and know it is the ideations of men who didn`t wear underwear, who lived in a time where computers weren`t invented, and the earth was barely understood as round.

    Evolution and the big bang are facts. The theories explain the facts. Simple as that. Time and space expanded, and things evolved from simpler things, using simple rules that culminated into complex organisms. You wouldn`t say our weather patterns are a theory, or that geological formations were a theory. Things change over time.
  63. Profile photo of GasMaskKid
    GasMaskKid Male 18-29
    694 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:57 am
    Fox News is and always will be a load of bullship. Having said that, I am on the kid`s side. This counts as bullying, which is serious business nowadays..
  64. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:58 am
    CrakrJak said: The theories of the `Big bang` and `Evolution` have more holes in them than cheesecloth, But let`s bash Christians to make us look better

    Like? I study the big bang theory and it doesn`t have "more holes than a cheesecloth"; it`s pretty solid. My wife studies evolution, and it`s the same story.

    Both are proven hypothesis (theories).

    On the other hand, the teacher was out of line ranting about something completely out of his subject.
  65. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:58 am
    "Imagine what would happen if he dared to say that he believed in religion, or even mentioned that it is scientifically possible that God created our universe? "

    Then he`d be lying, and that`s a little different than stating an opinion. In the end though, if you say that God created the universe, then what created God? Oh, it`s always been? Well perhaps the universe has "always been". Same level.
  66. Profile photo of kw112
    kw112 Female 13-17
    243 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:59 am
    The teacher needs to stop talking about religion in his class. If he wants to do that he should teach a religion class. Even then he needs to omit his opinion when he`s teaching. He can talk about his opinion after class is over OR if someone asks him.

    As for the kid he needs to stop pulling the same old "I`m a Christain and I`m offended", crap. I don`t know why religious people talk as if they are a minority in the world sometimes.

    If we censor ourselves from fear of offending one group, we have to do the same for all groups, and then nothing comes out of our mouths at all.

    Theres always going to be someone that claims they are offended. If its not one side, its the other.
  67. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:00 am
    "Nothing.

    It isn`t forbidden for a teacher to be a theist.
    "

    Agreed. Nor is it forbidden for a teacher to be Muslim, Christian, or a Raelian.

    What do you think "theist" means? You`ve obviously got the wrong meaning if you think that Muslims and Christians aren`t theists. Raelians would be more of a grey area.

    But the context of my statement is free speech in a classroom, not personal beliefs.

    No it isn`t. You implied that a teacher stating in class that they were a theist would result in something worse than this case. You wrote this:

    Imagine what would happen if he dared to say that he believed in religion

    You`re trying to portray theists as a greviously oppressed group in the USA and you`re just plain wrong.
  68. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:01 am
    SprinkZ said: Evolution and the big bang are facts. The theories explain the facts. Simple as that.

    Evolution is a fact, natural selection is the theory.
    The expansion of the universe is a fact, the big bang is the theory.
  69. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7562 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:02 am
    Head Bang- that has every place in the classroom. Or do they no longer teach logic? How can you POSSIBLY sue a teacher for that?
  70. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:06 am
    This is exactly what I have been banging on about. There is no need for disrespectful rhetoric in the classroom. It has less a place in the classroom as religion.

    Anti-theists can yell and kick and scream about Christians being delusional, illogical, and that they "shove religion down my throat", yet they don`t see that they are nothing more than trolls and hypocrites.


  71. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2514 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:06 am
    I completely agree with everything the teacher said.
  72. Profile photo of Thesphinx
    Thesphinx Male 18-29
    353 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:06 am
    I think it was fair this teacher got sued. Don`t get me wrong; I`m atheist/agnostic. But I at least respect religion enough to know that most of the crap he was saying was just hyperbolic and offensive. I mean, religion is meant to keep women barefoot in the kitchen over a hot stove? That`s just plain sexist.
  73. Profile photo of xKiesix
    xKiesix Female 18-29
    448 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:07 am
    Good. He should be. We are not paying teachers for their opinions. We are paying teachers to teach the curriculum.
  74. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:07 am
    "I study the big bang theory and it doesn`t have "more holes than a cheesecloth"; it`s pretty solid. My wife studies evolution, and it`s the same story."

    Neither theory neither confirms nor denies Christianity. I think that is the point that anti-theists and Christians alike can`t get over.

  75. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:08 am
    Hey Teach, keep the Conservative-bashing out of the classroom.
  76. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:09 am
    @SPrinkZ The big bang theory is not a "scientific fact". It is a theory.
  77. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:09 am
    Oh and more on the subject, the judge was out of line allowing such a preposterous lawsuit to take place. Stay classy america
  78. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2514 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:09 am
    Why do the teacher`s remarks on religion have no place in a history class? Do people not realize that a majority of history revolves around religion? The two go hand in hand in many ways.
  79. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:09 am
    it is not this teachers place to do this in high school. a teacher of a public high school should not be attacking the views of his students, and he deserved whatever he got.

    now, something similar happened in my evolution class. he was talking about having a conversation with a creationist and the arguments that were used by the guy. he attacked the other guys christian beliefs and a couple of kids complained and walked out. my professor doesnt deserve to get in trouble (and thankfully didnt) because you attending that class is your choice. the arguments against creationism are a good way to learn why evolution makes more sense, just like a pastor spouts arguments against evolution to try to make creationism make more sense.
  80. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:09 am
    @elkingo: I already said that biatch
  81. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:10 am
    "Hey Teach, keep the Conservative-bashing out of the classroom."

    I would like to add on to this, to say that there should be no bashing within the classroom. The material should be taught, nothing more; nothing less.
  82. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:10 am
    The theories of the `Big bang` and `Evolution` have more holes in them than cheesecloth, But let`s bash Christians to make us look better </sarcasm>
    And you`re going to tell me that creationism and belief in god period isn`t just one MASSIVE hole that relies on unverifiable evidence and faith?

    The circular logic you rely on for your belief does not fill in holes. If anything, it puts more holes in your brain.

    As for this case:

    In context of European history, some discussion of religion is necessary. However, when you`re a teacher, interjecting with your own opinions and snide remarks should not be permitted.

    He shouldn`t have been sued, but the kid should have spoken with him about it, and if the teacher continued, taken it to a higher power within the school, from there a higher authority in the district, etc.

    Tier systems exist for a reason.
  83. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:12 am
    @jendrian Didn`t see it goof.
  84. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:12 am
    Thesphinx said :"I mean, religion is meant to keep women barefoot in the kitchen over a hot stove"

    A quote taken out of context. That isn`t the whole post, and that wasn`t what your point was at all. Due to the fact that he teaches european history that aspect may have very well been relevant.
  85. Profile photo of xKiesix
    xKiesix Female 18-29
    448 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:13 am
    Honest to God, what if this guy had been saying the same things about Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.? Is it just because its Christian that his hate-filled speech is OK? It`s a European History class, NOT biology, sociology, or religious studies.
  86. Profile photo of Renaud-
    Renaud- Male 18-29
    423 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:13 am
    LOL evolution has more holes on it than creationism? are you drating retarded? How does the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple from a magical tree makes perfect sense to you christians? Your religion IS superstitious nonsense like all the others religion...they`re all drating bullpoo...
  87. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:15 am
    hey what is wrong with you people, you`re acting like everything that`s taught in a classroom isn`t the opinion of somebody.

    Thing is, the teacher was out of line with his sexist, racist, and segregational comments. Ranting takes no place in a classroom no matter what kind.

    The opinions of the teacher on the other hand should be very well received. It`s not like any of them complained of something like: "and then Germany attacked France and they lost because..."

    No french descendant has ever said: "oh I wazz offendood avout thee wai yoo teech hau françe lozzt"
  88. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:16 am
    @elkingo: lol
  89. Profile photo of xKiesix
    xKiesix Female 18-29
    448 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:16 am
    @Cobra, actually, at his age a lot of times it isn`t about choice. When I wrote my schedule for high school I made a list of the classes I wanted to be in and the school put me in the spots that fit. I had no choice but be in a class with a Biology teacher who would include her own political ideas. I couldn`t get out of the class or switch times. I was stuck there and I felt I learned a LOT less because of it. I can`t tell you how amino acids work but I can tell you how she compared birds kicking eggs out of their nest to abortions. How is that productive to my learning?
  90. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:17 am
    It isn`t like he said, "... and when the settlers came to the new world, they decided then and there that from now on Canada would be used as a proverbial `hat` for America."
  91. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:18 am
    According to the teacher he sends home at the beginning of each year a letter for the parents to sign that states something along the lines of "there will be many discussions in this class which may be provocative, it is to encourage free thinking and discussions. If you have a problem with any of the topics discussed come and see me to talk about it".

    If THIS is true, however, then it`s a game-changer.

    Provocative discussions and debates in classes will help to reinforce the material presented to the students by allowing them to form their own opinions about it.

    Present the facts, then get the students thinking about them by presenting something that will make the facts stick in their head.

    I had a teacher that deliberately incited debates in his classes. No one got less than a B by the end of the year. Not even me.

    Mind you, flame-wars are NOT provocative discussions or debates...
  92. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:18 am

  93. Profile photo of heartx3jess
    heartx3jess Female 18-29
    1578 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:22 am
    I`ll probably get bashed for this comment... But I think that they were absolutely right to sue the teacher. Religion should not be in the classroom. Now, don`t get me wrong, I agree with what the teacher was saying. However, there is a time and a place for him to say those things, and in a classroom is not the place. I`m sure you would all feel differently if the teacher was constantly bashing atheists, right? I think that the beauty of public schools is that everyone is free to have their own religious beliefs and not force their opinions on other people.
  94. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:24 am
    @altaru:

    I spent a bit of time googling this a couple of nights ago and i came across a blog where he apparentely presents his defence. Granted it coule be anyone.

    "The letter says, in part:

    Most days we will spend a few minutes (sometimes more) at the beginning of class discussing current events from either the Orange County Register or the L.A. Times. I may also use material from a variety of news websites. Discussion will be quite provocative, and focus on the “lessons” of history. My goal is to have you go home with something that will provoke discussion with your parents. Students may offer any perspective without concern that anything they say will impact either my attitude toward them or their grades. I encourage a full range of views."


    The blod
  95. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:26 am
    xkiesix, thats exactly what i said. he is probably in that class because he has to be, not by choice. thats why in high school, teachers need to keep their personal beliefs to themselves.
  96. Profile photo of jendrian
    jendrian Male 18-29
    2516 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:28 am
    @Reganom: and he still lost the lawsuit? ... What is signing a contract good for then?
  97. Profile photo of xKiesix
    xKiesix Female 18-29
    448 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:28 am
    @Cobra
    Oh I get it. Sorry, I thought you were talking about a high school class.
  98. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:29 am
    "The blod" was meant to be blog. It`s winter and my heating is broken so forgive clumsy fingers.
  99. Profile photo of JDplaysFF
    JDplaysFF Male 30-39
    626 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:30 am
    I think its crazy that people think they have a right to not be offended.
  100. Profile photo of Metum
    Metum Male 13-17
    155 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:30 am
    lol what a pussy faggot with gay hair
  101. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:33 am
    I`m also forced to wonder if Chad may have taken the quotes out of context by recording and editing the clips to have them say what he wanted them to say in order to win the case.

    Seriously, video editing isn`t as hard as people make it out to be. The teacher may have said these things, but what about what he said before and after? Was this spoken in a context? Was he quoting someone else?

    Does anyone have a link or something containing everything Chad recorded?

    @Reganom

    Thanks. Honestly, if he`s able to get hold of and present a parent-signed copy of that letter to a court on an appeal, it could serve as a total game-changer.
  102. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:37 am
    xkiesix, its cool, i miss high school a little, but alas, it was so long ago.
  103. Profile photo of EntrE
    EntrE Male 18-29
    535 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:38 am
    god`s gonna strike that teacher with lightning fo sho!
  104. Profile photo of SoggieBread
    SoggieBread Male 18-29
    36 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:40 am
    mommy and daddy sure did teach him right, if you have a problem with someone..... sue them.
  105. Profile photo of Digital_Babu
    Digital_Babu Male 30-39
    77 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:45 am
    I agree that teachers shouldn`t use their teaching time for their own agenda. Yet this baffles me, since it -again- tries to set religious belief on par with scientific understanding.

    And imagine how mediocre history class would be if history class would be just about conveying historical facts. Especially European history, which is all about clashes between science and believes. Guess who won in the end.
  106. Profile photo of Slmmhmmr161
    Slmmhmmr161 Male 18-29
    606 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:46 am
    Teacher was probably having a pooty day. I feel bad for him. The student`s such a troll.

    Oh snap... I just realized this is on Fox News. I can`t assume anything about a fair and unbiased discussion about this incident. My bad.
  107. Profile photo of Kegomatix
    Kegomatix Male 18-29
    1341 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:46 am
    Teacher should have kept his mouth shut... Must have been aching to get those opinions out to those kids. Its a shame though because he is so right...

    I can`t help but feel like maybe the students provoked that rant somehow...
  108. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:52 am
    Muhahaha! I haz started flamewar! :D

    Dance, monkeys! DANCE!
  109. Profile photo of Xpekt
    Xpekt Male 18-29
    134 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:57 am
    What I dont understand is how they keep saying that religious discussion has no place in a history classroom... OF COURSE IT DOES!!!!! How many of the worlds largest events were caused directly if not indirectly BY religion? Pretty sad that you can get sued based upon your beliefs. I wonder how many teachers are out there spewing religious propaganda at kids right now. Never see that on the news though because when your theories MAKE SENSE, you don`t have to defend them fanatically.
  110. Profile photo of 420foy
    420foy Male 18-29
    671 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:57 am
    dear chad, stfu you ASS
  111. Profile photo of MauserTM
    MauserTM Male 18-29
    1222 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:58 am
    I guess the judge didnt finish school
  112. Profile photo of izzy_meow
    izzy_meow Female 13-17
    63 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:00 pm
    Even as an athiest, someone who agree`s with this man`s point of veiw, it`s totally innapropriate to bash peoples religions in the classroom. There are many students with many beliefs.
  113. Profile photo of ggolbez
    ggolbez Male 18-29
    1933 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:02 pm
    Watched the first minute. I raged. Not going to finish it.
  114. Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:02 pm
    Context? Maybe a student asked a question that pertains to the answers he gave.
  115. Profile photo of ElMustache
    ElMustache Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:02 pm
    You mean creationism isn`t superstitious nonsense? Huh.
  116. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7562 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:09 pm
    How is it possible to sue a damn teacher, I would have been in detention for months if I had even thought it. Teachers are there to teach kids how to thiink, and how to learn- they guide a process, not shove random crap into kids ears and hope they retain it all.
  117. Profile photo of apermal
    apermal Male 18-29
    322 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:14 pm
    `rightfully calling`?

    Right, I get it. Talk about bias right there in the title, when you are reporting about bias against someone in the report. Way to go, IAB.
  118. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:19 pm
    oh drat i want to punch them! non-nice individuals! FUUUUUuuu
    god damn religious non-nice individuals! even if you win the law suit, it`s still some drating superstitious nonsense.

    ahhh just had to get it out
  119. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    Apermal:

    As soon as Creationism or intelligent design if you prefer, gains the status of a scientific theory. Then i`m sure i along with many atheists will take back our statements similar to this.

    Consider this though, is it biased to claim that earth is not the center of the universe, and rightfully calling the outdated belief that earth is the center of the universe superstitious nonsense?
  120. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:38 pm
    Elkingo,

    The big bang is a fact. Or rather, I should say the EXPANSION OF SPACE AND TIME IS A FACT.

    God damn. Semantics with you f*cking turds.
  121. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:39 pm
    Usually don`t like siding with Crakr but big bang and evolution do have an s-ton of holes in them. However the difference between science and religion is that people are looking to update science and develop a more complete understanding of the nature of the universe. Religion change mostly when it is seen as being in the favor of political leaders, Sunnis vs. Shiites, Church of England, Protestant Reformation, Constantine. Religion doesn`t update based on recent and measurable developments, which, to me, makes it an outdated system for understanding the nature of the universe.
  122. Profile photo of Oscola
    Oscola Male 18-29
    349 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:40 pm
    I think someone should get a tape recorder inside a lesson on creation inside a christian school and when they say that evolution is a lie, sue the crap out of them.
  123. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:41 pm
    Kingpong:

    Not an attack, but what are the numerous hole in evolution and the big bang?
  124. Profile photo of TysonRP
    TysonRP Male 13-17
    312 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:51 pm
    "This is European history professor, I mean what place does it have in your class room?"

    I know right! It`s not like Christianity was ever the driving force behind anything that happened in Europe in history!... oh wait.
  125. Profile photo of jag1989
    jag1989 Male 18-29
    47 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:52 pm
    @Kingpon & Reganom

    There are many holes in the big bang theory, and it`s now not widely regarded as "the right answer"

    Struggling to think of one flaw or hole in evolution though? would be interested in hearing any.
  126. Profile photo of SmilinSam
    SmilinSam Female 18-29
    3599 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:56 pm
    If i were to sit down and have a conversation with this teacher, and he were to say those things to me i would be in total aggreance with him. BUT, it was pretty inappropriate to just bash on christianity in a classroom setting like that. it`s like that guy was just using his teaching postition as a forum to spout his own hatred for christianity... those kids don`t want his opinion, especially when his subject in school didn`t spark any kind of religious discussion anyways.
    {that kid still looks like he`d be a douche anyways, regardless of religious affiliation}
  127. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 12:59 pm
    SmilinSam:

    Religion plays a huge role in european history. It is the basis for many acts in American history. People fled europe because of religious persecution ( i believe anyway). You are also basing your opinion that it was out of place on out of context evidence. In an earlier comment i presented there is the defence (or at least i think it is the defence) from the teacher.
  128. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:00 pm
  129. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:03 pm
    I should have left out evolution, its pretty solid. But big bang has a lot of holes, other than things like what started it. Superluminal travel would have been required, unequal distribution of matter/antimatter throughout the universe, fusion of em/strong/weak force but not gravity, arrival of gravity, extra spatial and maybe temporal dimensions. These are some of the many holes in Big Bang theory, which is actually losing favor to other theories like expansion. But that helps prove my point, when new developments are validated, they are incorporated into new theories that better match our understanding of the universe.
  130. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:04 pm
    @tridirk
    that`s completely unrelated to actual facts about how religious and political ideologies influenced the events of history
  131. Profile photo of zucedamoose
    zucedamoose Male 13-17
    60 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:04 pm
    I`m getting kind of tired of all the christian bashing on this site. I do believe atheists completely have the right to believe what they want but I don`t think they should repeatedly insult people who dont believe the same as them. even the description is anti-christian "rightfully calling creationism superstitious nonsense" I understand you dont believe it but u dont have to put down everyone who does. Live and let live
  132. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:07 pm
    @I-IS-BORED

    Don`t mind him. It`s his usual thing. Absolutely nothing productive, just a whole bunch of anti-lib bullsh*t.
  133. Profile photo of XxCraigxX
    XxCraigxX Male 13-17
    114 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:08 pm
    Anyone who legitimately watches Fox is f*cking r*tarded.
  134. Profile photo of zucedamoose
    zucedamoose Male 13-17
    60 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:09 pm
    And weather you believe in creationism or not school is no place to talk about it. ever heard of the seperation of church and state? that`s why he`s getting sued, not because he`s not religious
  135. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    Ugh. I don`t know why I started watching this. Or why I read the comments. People who blantantly refuse to acknowledge verifiable evidence of evolution (not to mention the multitude of vegetables and fruit and grains that you eat everyday as proof right in front of you of evolution--or the dog you own--or that flu shot that gets made every year) make my mind want to explode.

    But I do agree that the teacher shouldn`t be spouting his biased opinion at students. Obviously not all conservatives believe the same things/
  136. Profile photo of HunterKiller
    HunterKiller Male 18-29
    363 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:11 pm
    Who are you to say what is "right"?
  137. Profile photo of GHudston
    GHudston Male 18-29
    182 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:19 pm
    It has nothing to do with belief. I don`t believe anything until I am presented with some evidence for it.

    Based on the facts, we can "rightfully" call creationism "superstitious nonsense" because it is. That isn`t my opinion, that is a fact.

    I am not naive enough to think that anything that I could say will change your mind, but if you honestly think that creationism has a single shred of solid evidence to stand up against the sheer, enormous weight of evidence in support of evolution then you are severely misinformed and we have every right to challenge you.

    Your belief does not make you immune to (valid) criticism.
  138. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:19 pm
    @zucedamoose
    Actually it does belong in the classroom, his job is to teach those people how to THINK and pointing out how religion was used to change the opinions of peasants with historical examples applies very well to pointing out the same today. You can`t tell me that an institution, regardless of how it was founded, that has been shown to be very obviously corrupt throughout all events that we can look back and analyze as third parties is now magically pure.
  139. Profile photo of soulsender76
    soulsender76 Male 30-39
    182 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:27 pm
    Nobody loves the court of law like Americans !!!!!!!!!!!#1
  140. Profile photo of Lucky2u
    Lucky2u Male 18-29
    315 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:34 pm
    whoa whoa... "rightfully calling...etc" what the hell IAB? shouldn`t you strive to be a little more nuetral on the subject?
  141. Profile photo of Feuyaer
    Feuyaer Male 18-29
    56 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:41 pm
    drating religious nut. I hope he gets counter-sued.
    Religion is a joke. That kid needs to die.
  142. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:41 pm
    whoa whoa... "rightfully calling...etc" what the hell IAB? shouldn`t you strive to be a little more nuetral on the subject?
    I-A-B is mostly user-submitted content. You want to flame, go flame the submitter (Pooptart) - it`s his caption.
  143. Profile photo of HarryDresden
    HarryDresden Male 18-29
    99 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:42 pm
    okay i gotta ask how bad is it to be an athiest in the states??

    cos my entire knowledge on the matter comes from stories like this which leads gives the impression that athiests are chased through the town with pitch forks
  144. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:42 pm
    @I-IS-BORED that`s completely unrelated to actual facts about how religious and political ideologies influenced the events of history

    Yes if that were the point of being sued, but totally relevant to this discussion. Too many public school teachers inject their political views into the classroom. (On either side Altura)...

    Which was this teacher`s problem. Had he not injected his own politics and tried to force feed the young high schoolers he would have not had a problem.

    What hasn`t been discussed here is this. How would a student be graded for his performance if he is Christian or God forbid a conservative? Do you think this fair minded teacher would be able to put aside his own feelings and not discriminate?

    How many of you have written papers to fit what your teacher or professor wants to hear? Because you need the grade?
  145. Profile photo of Mogulman
    Mogulman Male 18-29
    295 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:43 pm
    WOOOOOOOOO!!!!
    YEAHHHHHHH!!!


    sorry... i just love me a good sunday afternoon flamewar.
  146. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:46 pm
    Actually I`m going to take back that there aren`t many holes in evolutionary theory, there are still questions as to the original development of RNA and DNA and early life forms and how they were able to reproduce, various other stuff related to the chemistry behind the biology, but as far as the basic principles of evolution and natural selection go, they are observable and measurable. There are holes in both theories that need to be fixed, but people are trying to fix the holes.
  147. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:47 pm
    Law: 1
    Truth: 0
  148. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:53 pm
    @everyone

    Evolution doesn`t have holes. There are gaps in understanding, but it`s not like there are actual holes in the understanding--we don`t just go "MAGIC!" for when we can`t explain something of the biological sciences.

    I am seriously tired of people challenging evolution. I am not tired of people challenging how it happened though. Maybe if we can just get past the first point, we can finally work on real answers to our origins, and how we can help fix ourselves to be better than nature ever could intend.
  149. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:54 pm
    And to Harry, being an atheist isn`t bad unless you are a douche. I`d say probably about 80% of people on both sides honestly don`t give a drat so long as you aren`t being a douche to them. But then you have the Dawkinses (I know he`s not American) and Phelpses who go out of their way to be dicks to anyone who isn`t on their side, its just the loud ones you hear about though, the douches. Every discussion I`ve ever had with anybody about religion has been completely reasonable and level-headed, they were passionate arguments sometimes but not vicious or attacking. It`s just that only the loud-douches make the news and so that`s all y`all see. It`s only difficult for people who make it so.
  150. Profile photo of YoungOola
    YoungOola Male 13-17
    325 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:55 pm
    You are entitled to your opinion, but he just sounds like a dick.
  151. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:56 pm
    "whoa whoa... "rightfully calling...etc" what the hell IAB? shouldn`t you strive to be a little more nuetral on the subject?"

    When it come to batsh*t lunacy, already struck down by the Federal Courts as bulls*it creationism gussied up as fake-ass purposefully deceptive non-science, Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, 400 F. Supp. 2d 707, No. 04cv2688 (M.D. Penn. 2005), THEN YES, REPORTING CREATIONISM AS BULLS*IT IS REPORTING FACT.

    IT IS GOD DAMN ILLEGAL UNDER FEDERAL LAW TO TEACH CREATIONISM IN SCHOOLS. Thus, it is NOT illegal to say creationism is bullsh&t.
  152. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:57 pm
    And Jesus Christ I`m back already. SPrinkZ A gap is a hole. It needs to be fixed to develop a full understanding, until then it`s an incomplete theory. It is a usable model but not a complete model, like Bohr`s atom.
  153. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:58 pm
    And that doug funny looking mofo should just go back to Catholic school. Go get some leeches, and roll around on your flat-earth.
  154. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 1:59 pm
    So tell me one `hole` in the understanding of evolution. I use the word gap incorrectly. I should have said, a hotly contested area of science, rather than a gap, because there are no gaps in evolution.

    Show me one gap in the understanding of evolution. Abiogenesis doesn`t count, and neither does any other science that doesn`t pertain to biology. GO!
  155. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:00 pm
    "okay i gotta ask how bad is it to be an athiest in the states??"

    Lots of otherwise sane non-believers fake religiosity due the influence of crazy bible beaters in every day life. Join almost any civic group in America, you run into people who factor Jesus into their every decision.
  156. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:01 pm
    Dude, evolution is not an incomplete theory. You use the word theory colloquially like most people who are so profoundly misinformed. If it was incomplete it would not be called a theory--or at least, not a SCIENTIFIC THEORY. Which has its own definition.

    I have a strong inclination to believe you think laws are greater than theories. If that is true, then we cannot discuss this, because you need a definition of a scientific law and a theory first so you can grasp the disparity in your thinking. If that is the case.
  157. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:02 pm
    I believe in growing from monkeys (we look like them) rather than the magic-man-in-the-sky creating everything as static and unchanging, with Jesus riding a Dinosaur to the last supper, what with all things that ever were being present on earth from Day One.
  158. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:05 pm
    " If that is true, then we cannot discuss this, because you need a definition of a scientific law and a theory first so you can grasp the disparity in your thinking."

    They loath educated learning, you have to understand this. It challenges deeply held bulls*it religious beliefs, and rather than abandon the deeply held belief for being full o` crap, THEY ATTACK EDUCATION ITSELF INSTEAD.

    How dare you question Jesus with you Science!
  159. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:06 pm
    @kingpong, you use the word "side" as if each has an equally valid point, but they don`t. Evolution happened. Creationism didn`t. If you subscribe to creationism, know that it the equivalent to believing in Santa Claus, ghosts, and a flat earth Earth. Your choice to believe it, as long as you don`t claim it to be factual. Dawkins isn`t being a dick, he is simply giving Creationism the amount of respect it is due, which is none. The same amount of respect you would give to a man who claimed that he had intercourse with the invisible dragon that lives in his basement.
  160. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:10 pm
    Any jackass in America can sue. That doesn`t mean they don`t get laughably thrown out of court.
  161. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:12 pm
    a man who claimed that he had intercourse with the invisible dragon that lives in his basement.

    That was said in confidence you meanie! Now everyone knows -.-
  162. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:12 pm
    A theory, colloquially, is a hypothesis. Scientific theories are well supported hypotheses, but not definitively proven. Laws are definitely greater than theories, that`s what makes them laws, they work 100% of the time regardless of the circumstances. If theories are not allowed to be incomplete then please explain why it is called quantum theory and not quantum hypothesis? There is an s-ton of support for quantum mechanics, but even more holes than the bible itself. If you can argue that quantum mechanics is either fully developed or not an accepted theory, then I will accept your statement.
  163. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:12 pm
    Terrible analogy. Separation of church and state is not akin to separation of state and science, which is basically what your comparison is saying.
    No, my analogy is saying that some things are just facts. Ohm`s Law is one. Evolution is another. It has been observed. It happens. If I were to postulate that, in fact, I = VR, the teacher should rightly correct me, because it`s just plain wrong. Similarly, if I were to postulate that, in fact, evolution did not happen, the teacher should correct me.

    The theories of the `Big bang` and `Evolution` have more holes in them than cheesecloth, But let`s bash Christians to make us look better </sarcasm>
    That reminds me CJ, congrats on getting your very recent PhDs in astrophysics and evolutionary biology. </sarcasm>
  164. Profile photo of DHalo
    DHalo Male 13-17
    10 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:13 pm
    NottaSpy:

    This country was founded on the understanding that anyone is allowed to believe what they want. The founding fathers were religious. If you don`t want to respect the fact that anyone is allowed to believe whatever the hell they want, even if that is that they had intercourse with a mythical dragon, then get the drat out.
  165. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:17 pm
    I swear to magic, everytime I post there is a new comment I have to respond to, Notta: I`m definitely not on the creationist side, Dawkins is a douche, not a dick (the difference being in how he sees himself), and he`s a drating idiot if he thinks he`s going to change anyone`s mind with logic and reason when the people whose minds he is trying to change have already decided not to use logic and reason. There are only two reasons he would bother with this tactic: 1, he is an idiot, which I highly doubt, or 2, he is a huge douche, which is much more likely.
  166. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:17 pm
    Scientific theories are greater than laws because they incorporate laws into them and account for all facts. Laws start off as theories but they become `laws` after they are tested for quite a long time. Eventually evolution will too be a law someday.

    You just don`t get it. There is more evidence for evolution than let`s say gravity, or light. But for some reason you don`t find holes in that, do you?

    Why don`t you go back to school, learn a bit, come back and we can discuss this as equals--because I know by now we have a different understanding of the same material, and we really shouldn`t.
  167. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:17 pm
    Not only that, most laws are just axioms. They don`t postulate how, the why, the who, the whatever. Theories do all of that.
  168. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:17 pm
    DHalo:

    If someones belief is that weak that purely expressing a contrary oppinion is considered a threat to your belief then you clearly don`t believe strongly.

    With regards to the fact about respecting others beliefs. I hardly think its respectful to be told that i will be going to hell for not believing in JC and God. Or for homosexual to behave as how they want, as they believe is right, to be condemned to hell.

  169. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:19 pm
    And King Pong. If God is omnipotent why has he no power over iron chariots? That`s a big gaping hole I can call off the top of my head.

    Name a hole in evolution. Name a gap in quantum mechanics. Go ahead. I just really want to hear it, so I can dismiss it with a little logic and some research you never did.
  170. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:19 pm
    Now, perhaps he could have said it in a nicer way. But then he supposedly has constitutionally protected freedom of speech, which lets him say whatever the hell he wants.

    It seems that after this ruling, the right to not be offended or have your religious beliefs insulted trumps the right to freedom of speech.

    I strongly suggest that every American atheist starts using this case as precedent to slam everyone who calls us immoral for millions of dollars. After all, I am VERY offended every time I am told I deserve eternal torture.
  171. Profile photo of hiddenid958
    hiddenid958 Male 30-39
    34 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:25 pm
    A teacher is suppose to create a classroom where a student is allowed to come up with their on conclusion on a subject by providing proof of their argument. Not forcing students to believe in what they believe, no matter if they are Right or not.
  172. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:28 pm
    SPrinkZ, Did you not read anything earlier than the first post you responded to, I even have a post on Atheism in America from my perspective as an atheist. I will state clearly now again, there is no god. I have already listed some holes in evolution that I believe you responded to, the holes aren`t sufficient to discount the theory but they exist. Also explain retrocausality or superpositioning, I know that they happen but please tell me why, unless you can tell me the entire workings or either theory then the theory is inherently incomplete. They work well enough for our understandings and are even applicable in modern technology, but holes exist in all of these theories, if you can`t accept that our understanding of literally everything is incomplete, then you need to shut the drat up because you obviously don`t know why we still have scientists to do research.
  173. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:28 pm
    Too many public school teachers inject their political views into the classroom. (On either side Altura)...
    Oh

    My

    GOD!

    Tridirk admits for once that the cons can be in the wrong at times too! Chalk one up in the record books, boys.
  174. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:29 pm
    And how are Unification Theory and the Theory of Everything considered theories if they don`t even exist yet?
  175. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:36 pm
    .... blinded by your ideology you are wrong once again. No brains no headaches.

    What`s the Koolaid flavor today?
  176. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:36 pm
    I have a strong inclination to believe you think laws are greater than theories.
    They`re completely separate areas of science.

    A LAW is a mathematic equation that is verifiable through experimentation. Laws are the only known truths about science, because they are numbers, and numbers don`t change.

    THEORIES are ideas that descend from what we have observed and seen to be true in most cases. Theories can be changed and even proven false if new evidence arises.
  177. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:37 pm
    I believe in growing from monkeys (we look like them)
    We DID NOT grow from monkeys, you ignoramus.

    We evolved from a common ancestor. As in, at some point thousands or even millions of years ago, there was a creature that was similar to either a monkey or a human, and through evolution the descendants of said creature separated into two distinct species, the monkey and the human being.

    Sounds to me like BOTH of you need to get your science straight before getting involved in the science vs. religion debate, or ANY scientific debate PERIOD.
  178. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:37 pm
    "A theory, colloquially, is a hypothesis."

    No, it isn`t.

    "Scientific theories are well supported hypotheses, but not definitively proven."

    Scientific theories are never `proven`, they are only tested to exhaustion. The term `proven` suggests some definitive end to the testing process, for which there is none. Before this turns into an argument of semantics, `proof` and `proven` are not the same. You can offer proof for a scientific theory, but this does not prove the theory.

    "And how are Unification Theory and the Theory of Everything considered theories if they don`t even exist yet?"

    They aren`t considered theories then. If they have not been tested extensively, then they are not theories, they are hypotheses. Anyone referring to a hypothesis, that has not been tested, as a theory does not understand what a theory is.
  179. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:40 pm
    "What`s the Koolaid flavor today?"

    What is this Koolaid insult about? Completely off topic but so is most of this thread. I`ve seen loads of people talking about drinking Koolaid as a sort of rebuttal, why though?
  180. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:40 pm
    Altaru, I drating love you right now, first person to even somewhat support me. We are so going to Massachusetts and getting gay-married even though I`m not really into dudes like that. Or is it Maine? I can`t remember which ones allow that anymore.
  181. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:40 pm
    No brains no headaches.
    Must be why I`m buying up all the aspirin compared to you...
  182. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:48 pm
    Brass, most people use the term theory when they should use hypothesis, as in "My theory is that this happened" instead of "My hypothesis is that this happened." Other than that, your argument is exactly the point I was trying to make. There is a Grand Unification Theory, which states that there is only one forces that gives rise to other forces and it is referred to as a theory although only two forces have been combined so far (EM and weak). Same idea for Theory of Everything. It is conceptualized and referred to as a theory when it shouldn`t be because it isn`t even at a testable state, yet both are accepted theories.
  183. Profile photo of alibi19
    alibi19 Male 18-29
    73 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:50 pm
    I dont like creationism, but I completely side with the student. This teacher had no right to continuously bash religion like that, especially in a European history class.

    If you hate religion shoved down your throat, dont shove atheism down people`s throat. Its just hypocritical.
  184. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:57 pm
    "especially in a European history class."

    Religion plays a large part in European history, it was a huge motivating power behind many major conflicts and/or decisions. It also plays a large part in many disgusting crimes.
  185. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 2:59 pm
    What is this Koolaid insult about?
    It has to do with Jim Jones. Basically, he was an extremist liberal preacher who formed a cult and convinced his followers to kill themselves by drinking spiked Kool-Aid.

    They use it when they have absolutely nothing else to say except insulting people for being liberals. Basically, ad hominem.
  186. Profile photo of alibi19
    alibi19 Male 18-29
    73 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:05 pm
    @ Reganom, I understand that. But teaching the failures of religion belongs in a world religions class, not in a history class. Sure the teacher could have taught the class about all of the horrible things the Catholic church did. Thats history, but he crossed the line when stated stating his opinions not history. Additionally creationism vs. evolution belongs in a bio course, I dont know what he was thinking even talking about that.
  187. Profile photo of Dragonlord
    Dragonlord Male 18-29
    734 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:05 pm
    The teacher not only had the right to bash creationism, but I feel as though he would be a poor educator if it came up and he DIDN`T.

    That having been said, the rest of his statements were indeed unnecessary, and I have no qualms with him being punished for it.
  188. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:06 pm
    I-A-B is mostly user-submitted content. You want to flame, go flame the submitter (Pooptart) - it`s his caption.
    Davy`s right; When I originally wrote the caption I had it as "incredibly inappropriate rant" but I didn`t have enough room.

    If I had the authority, I would`ve fired the teacher for his rant, but not for stating that creationism is bunk (note that if he had stated that every Christian is some sort of creationist tard, then I would`ve fired him for that too). Would it be right to fire/sue a teacher for calling Holocaust denial insane? (rhetorical question is rhetorical).
  189. Profile photo of Eroneus
    Eroneus Male 18-29
    44 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:11 pm
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA faith and freedom? Christianity and indeed all organized religion are forms of slavery
  190. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:11 pm
    Yo professor just teach history.

    Leave the trolling to us armchair warriors!
  191. Profile photo of keith2
    keith2 Male 30-39
    2588 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:12 pm
    this pisses me off.
  192. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:14 pm
    Thanks to all for the spirited discussion. For me this though has gotten off topic and become a debate about evolution or creationism. Both religious beliefs of sort that require some sort of study and faith in those you study. You might as well discuss the merits of Catholicism vs Judaism vs Buddhism vs Atheism, etc. No one in our history as a people can give you definite proof of his God, or a lack there of, much less who is more right. That is what personal decision and faith in that decision is all about.

    Time to watch some NFL and wait for the next topic of interest.

    Thanks again except Altura, he is just too much an angry liberal for me to thank.
  193. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:18 pm
    Kingpong

    I see your point. I guess it is a colloquialism now. *sigh*
  194. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:25 pm
    Yeah, Brass it`s sad but true, also its been over an hour since SPrinkZ last responded, does that mean I win?
  195. Profile photo of ErinBtx
    ErinBtx Female 18-29
    83 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:29 pm
    i`m not surprised at all that many of the posts here miss the point completely... the issue in this lawsuit was the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT of freedom of religion, which some of you can`t grasp.
  196. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:31 pm
    Tridirk:
    Thanks to all for the spirited discussion.
    Thanks again except Altura, he is just too much an angry liberal for me to thank.
    A) You never actually debated, you insulted liberals and acted high and mighty. Excuse me, you made ONE on-topic debate post.

    B) Seeing as how you can`t even spell a six-letter name right, you lose a lot of credibility for being dyslexic (not that you ever had any to begin with). After all, if you can`t read, how does anyone know you`re actually reading what they`ve written?

    C) Thanks for proving that cons can be just as arrogant and in the wrong as you claim libs are. Have fun being a f*cking hypocrite.

    Not that you`ll read this. It`s typical con behavior to not see anything that they don`t like or that doesn`t agree with them.
  197. Profile photo of SuperOnion
    SuperOnion Male 18-29
    151 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:37 pm
    I`ll agree with the teacher insofar as creationism is superstitious nonsense but he went a little far in terms of bashing a political party`s ideology. I`d punish the teacher but I wouldn`t suppress his free speech.

    It saddens me that respect for Free Speech is taking a backseat to respecting religion (at least in this case). Opinions are just that: opinions. They`re statements of what someone believes, not statements of fact. Let the man state his beliefs about conservatives and Christianity but please don`t make so much melodrama about it. Religion, is opinion. Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah but Muslims believe he was just a regular ol` prophet. Christianity would have you believe that you get to go to Heaven or Hell for the life you lived while the Bhagavad-Gita would have you believe that your soul is reincarnated until you reach enlightenment and thus salvation (Kaivalya Jnana and moksha respectively).

    It`s a matter of opinion so let the man have his.
  198. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:42 pm
    Wow, silly people!
  199. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:43 pm
    I applaud the teacher for standing up for Atheists. It`s time to put the crazy fairy tails behind us and move into this century.
  200. Profile photo of SPARTAKITTY
    SPARTAKITTY Female 18-29
    2120 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:45 pm
    That guy went a little too far, but I don`t think suing him is the right way to deal with it. Sit down with the principal and have a little talk. When I was in highschool, I remember a teacher randomly bringing up abortion in class, and saying he would call it by it`s true name "Baby Killing". Instead of giving him a hearty punch in the balls like he deserved, I sat down with the principal and got the teacher to calm down with his crazy nonsense. Talk > Sue
  201. Profile photo of Cherrybawls
    Cherrybawls Male 18-29
    167 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:45 pm
    God damn it we are regressing. The teacher was harsh but he was fulfilling his responsibility of providing the kids with accurate information as opposed to nurturing their childish fantasies
  202. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:45 pm
    @tridirk, do you understand that God and religion are completely different subjects when discussing proof. God is not falsifiable, but religion sure the hell is! It is impossible to prove or disprove God. Creationism, on the other hand, has long ago been debunked.

    @DHalo, I do believe everyone has the freedom to believe what they want. I defy you to find anything the founding fathers wrote saying that we have the right to not be offended. If someone believes in that dragon, then they should be prepared for the ridicule that will follow. Also note that our founding fathers wanted us to question, and even ridicule, authority. That is why we have a freedom of speech. Rather than demanding someone "get the drat out", how about you try to understand how peer pressure is a valuable mechanic of social interaction. I`m sure the founding fathers understood it.
  203. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:46 pm
    ErinBtx:

    In the very same ammendement it also mentions freedom of speech.

    I don`t feel that his freedom of belief was affected. Otherwise every preacher on the street, every sign for a particular religion could be counted as threatening someones freedom of belief. The teacher stated his opinion, yes he could have done it better. Although a small bit of research shows that he will have discussions that are provocative. The student had the choice of speaking to the teacher and not once does it say that he used that right. I haven`t got the link at hand, but the teacher sent a letter to the parents saying that there will be provocative topics discussed and that if they had a problem with one of them to speak to him.

  204. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:47 pm
    evolution or creationism. Both religious beliefs of sort that require some sort of study and faith in those you study
    Evolution is not a religion. It does not require faith.

    No one in our history as a people can give you definite proof of his God, or a lack there of
    Agreed. But we can give evidence of evolution. It is a fact.

    The fact of evolution does not disprove God, but it does disprove creationism.
  205. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8306 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 3:53 pm
    > almightybob1
    > The fact of evolution does not disprove God, but it does disprove creationism

    No it doesn`t; you`re assuming that once created, something never changes. That is observably untrue. But the fact that things adapt and change doesn`t prove they weren`t created in the first place by an omnipotent Being.
  206. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:00 pm
    Lionhart:

    Whilst yes creationism in its original form can exist with evolution. Creation in the sense that is being discussed, or atleast the one i`ve been discussing, is the creationism of the book of genesis. That everything is created as is.
  207. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:05 pm
    @Lionhart
    we`re using creationism to refer to the young Earth belief that says that dinosaurs were never alive and were put there to test your faith
  208. Profile photo of rubored
    rubored Male 18-29
    165 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:08 pm
    And here you are insulting it. There`s no real proof for evolutionism. Nothing + nothing = nothing. Not something. Where did that first "particle" come from? Nothing? Where did that come from? Ah, I`m not going to continue here. Everyone is entitled to their own believes, I just found this particular IAB article comment to be quite.. idiotic.
  209. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:09 pm
    Kingpong

    I`m not even sure what you guys were arguing about anymore. You said you took back your statement that the theory of evolution has holes, but then it still seems like that is what you were are arguing about. All I can say is that if a theory were incomplete it wouldn`t pass peer review and be published. The only holes I know of concerning evolution are the gaps in the fossil record, which don`t undermine the theory, and are supplemented with DNA evidence.
  210. Profile photo of lumie
    lumie Female 18-29
    23 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:12 pm
    Sueing does seem pretty extreme, but at the same time teachers with religious beliefs aren`t allowed to mention them at all in the classroom. I`ve heard many atheists argue that it`s brainwashing. A Christian teacher would be fired under the same terms if he talked with any mention or bias about his beliefs, so it`s double standards to support the atheist teacher doing the same just because you agree with his beliefs.
  211. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:12 pm
    Where did that first "particle" come from? Nothing?

    You`re demonstrating a clear lack of understanding of what evolution demonstrates. Evolution is not the answer to the origin of life on earth. Evolution is the change of life from less complex organisms.
  212. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:13 pm
    Yeah I took back taking back my statement when I realized I was right initially, like I always am.
  213. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:14 pm
    This is nuts. If that same teacher had said something against gays or someones race he`d be the most hated man in America, but since he was ranting against Christianity (many peoples belief) its no big deal...that is the WTF?
  214. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:15 pm
    @rubored, that same stupid argument also works for God. Where did God come from? Nothing? Always existed? You have a fundamental, and profound misunderstanding of our current understanding of the universe. The difference is that science doesn`t stop at "because God did it"
  215. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:16 pm
    Altaru,

    one of our most distant ancestors was a monkey. So to say that we evolved from monkeys isn`t wrong.
  216. Profile photo of BigMordecai
    BigMordecai Male 18-29
    94 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:17 pm
    Ok did people watch the clip? While that may have been the stated problem, did anyone notice his extremely bigoted approach to politics and people with religion? His statements were extremely politically charged and opinionated. I am the last one to believe in creationism, but I don`t see that as the major issue here. He is making quite outrageous claims as well, which people on either side should be removed for doing. He is essentially trying to portray conservatives and religious people as evil or wrong. Ideally a teacher should be objective in representation. Personally I wouldn`t even care if Creationism was taught in social studies (not science) as a belief people have. I am working towards a PhD, but understand that skills in being able to work with others and understanding viewpoints may be even more valuable to most people than certain scientific theories. Also, interesting to whomever brought up Ohm`s law, it actually only holds when the Drude law is an accurate representation
  217. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:20 pm
    "If that same teacher had said something against gays"

    You mean like the christians? If you`re going to look at one source, which is firstly clearly biased as the evidence was the same put forward by the kid, and secondly because its fox news, not the most impartial source, then i`ll leave your comment at that.

    If you do however want to know both sides of the story, i made a post about it earlier, which presents a blog and an extract of a letter sent to parents.
  218. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:22 pm
    If that same teacher had said something against gays or someones race he`d be the most hated man in America, but since he was ranting against Christianity (many peoples belief) its no big deal...that is the WTF?

    It depends on on if what he said about was true. If he said gays like other men and blacks have darker skin color, then it would be no big deal. Creationism is nonsense, what he said was accurate. Just because the truth is offensive to someone does not make it the same as racism.
  219. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:24 pm
    BigMordecai:

    Did you watch the clip? It clearly only presents extracts of a lesson. It clearly only presents on side of the story.

    I quote you: "conservatives and religious people...evil"

    As you can clearly see that is out of context and completely inccorect about what you said. Quotes out of context can not be taken as fact without that context.

  220. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:24 pm
    There are plenty of gaps in the chemical understanding of evolution. The theory of natural selection is adequately developed, but this is not the same as evolution. Natural selection only takes into account the macrobiological levels (for the most part) while evolution requires more work on the chemical processes involved. This does not mean that it is incorrect, merely that more work needs to be done. I get the impression that people think I am anti-evolution, I`m not, I`m just saying that it isn`t fully developed and that there are questions that still need to be answered before we can say that we have a complete theory of evolution. Most of the problems are with the development of early life and how it could reproduce/express genes without having the necessary pathways or did the pathways give rise to gene expression as we understand it. It`s a chicken and egg argument, but it`s important for a complete theory of evolution.
  221. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    SPrinkZ I see you`re back, I`m still waiting for a response to my earlier questions. And also I agree with your last statement.
  222. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    one of our most distant ancestors was a monkey. So to say that we evolved from monkeys isn`t wrong.
    With all due respect, you are a f*cking idiot.

    One of our distant ancestors was also a distant ancestor of a monkey.

    By your (wrong) logic, that means that either humans evolved from monkeys, or monkeys evolved from humans.

    OR, we could go with the RIGHT logic and say that the ancestor was neither, and therefor we did NOT evolve from monkeys, but we both evolved from a common ancestor.
  223. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:29 pm
    "Yeah I took back taking back my statement when I realized I was right initially, like I always am."

    lol, ok. Then you still haven`t answered SPrinkZ`s question.
  224. Profile photo of tatripp
    tatripp Male 18-29
    1196 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:32 pm
    @almightybob1
    Evolution is not a fact and evolution does require faith.
    Here is a video i hope you enjoy
    http://www.youtube. com/watch?v=FI4rpNrkfps
    (just remove the giant space)
  225. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:35 pm
    Okay then to clarify, If he had stated BIGOTED comments about Gays or someone`s race he`d be the most hated man in America.

    Bigotry against others is WRONG no matter who you are!
  226. Profile photo of kummi90
    kummi90 Male 18-29
    541 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:38 pm
    rubored: The same deduction can be used against you. God must have come from something too!
    Besides, evolution does not concern itself with the origin of lifeforms, that is abiogenesis...
  227. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:39 pm
    "And here you are insulting it. There`s no real proof for evolutionism. Nothing + nothing = nothing. Not something. Where did that first "particle" come from?"

    first particle? evolution? wtf? what do you think evolution is exactly?
  228. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:40 pm
    @almightybob1
    Evolution is not a fact and evolution does require faith.
    Here is a video i hope you enjoy
    http://www.youtube. com/watch?v=FI4rpNrkfps
    (just remove the giant space)
    tatripp, you poor little ignoramus. For f*ck sakes, you have the INTERNET at your disposal and you still haven`t the slightest clue about evolution. I pity you.
  229. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:43 pm
    Which SPrinkZ question? The one about there being an omnipotent god (already said I`m atheist on that one so no point in arguing against something I agree with) or the holes in quantum and evolution (I`ve already brought up lack of understanding of some the processes involved in both, which seem to be important gaps in our understanding to me).
  230. Profile photo of JoeZombie
    JoeZombie Male 18-29
    19 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:44 pm
    This is nonsense, Fox News is absolute garbage, just another piece of propaganda to throw at the "Average American"
  231. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:46 pm
    "Creationism is nonsense"

    Everyone has the right to believe in what they wish to believe in. I believe in creationism and evolution. Both support the other in some way or another. Just because you don`t "believe" GOD to be true does not mean that there isn`t any proof of HIS existence. I for one believe that GOD exist and that HE created this planet and the entire universe. Evolutionist believe that everything just expanded from nothing. How is that so far off from the Creationist who believe that "GOD did it"?
  232. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3447 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:49 pm
    I go to Fox for my comedy an to Comedy Central for my news.
  233. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    @Satkela
    You`re horribly misusing those words, evolution claims nothing about the beginnings of life, evolution itself is the fact that life forms adapt and change overtime, the theory of evolution is a list of reasons for why and how. Creationism says the animals that man has observed in only a few thousand years (because that`s all the time the Earth existed right?) are all that there are, humans never didn`t exist in their current form, no animal that exists today wasn`t created the moment God made the animals, etc.
  234. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:53 pm
    "I believe in creationism and evolution"

    You`re seriously confused about your science.

    "Evolutionist believe that everything just expanded from nothing"

    No we don`t. It`s that simple. That would be like me saying that "christians believe that i am the second son of God, the less well known and clearly not the favorite". Completely untrue, atleast i hope it is.
  235. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:57 pm
    pooptart19

    Actually, evolution does require faith, but not the way that naywayers mean.

    Like every conclusion that is based on information that other people have acquired, and unless someone has personally studied every fossil, and repeated every experiment in the process of developing tree ring and carbon dating methods,

    there is a required in faith in the people who did do all that work. But that is perfectly ordinary and acceptable. We have use faith when we order something online that actually will be delivered at the price we paid, and that if there is a problem, the courts are available if necessary.

    The real problem is that in the war over creationism vs evolution - fundamentalist Christians vs. fundamentalist atheists, is that people on both sides demand that others take their word about things on faith, but refuse to return the favor.

  236. Profile photo of wigamondo
    wigamondo Male 30-39
    7 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:58 pm
    lol more reasons why the rest of the world is loosing its respect for America. I remember being a kid in the 80`s thinking America was the greatest country in the world.....oh how the mighty have fallen. (btw you can`t tell tone of voice in this text, im not bashing, i`m actualy quite sad that I have lost respect for what was once a great nation)
  237. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 4:58 pm
    @Satkela, ahh, thanks for going into more detail. You believe in creation, not necessarily creationism. creationism claims the earth is only 6,000 years old. That is nonsense and it doesn`t matter if you believe it or not, it has been proven to be nonsense. Evolution doesn`t not claim a damn thing about how the universe was created. The current thoughts on the origin of the universe do not say it came from nothing. While there are some science that speaks to what came before the Big Bang, it is still hotly debated. Scientists are fine with not knowing what came before the Big Bang. Religion only needs "God did it" to be satisfied, and religion is never satisfied with not being able to answer a question.
  238. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 5:01 pm
    Evolution requires all laypeople to accept much of its data, and its conclusions of faith in the work of the scientists who collected the data. Which is fair.

    Religion requires people who have not had experiences of the divine, to have faith in the people who have. Which is fair.

    But, atheism declares that all people of faith are wrong about their own experiences, while demanding that the experiences - the experiments, of scientists be believe.

    Anti-science religious types pull the same thing in reverse - demanding that their testimony be believed, while refusing to believe that of scientists.

    Both are equally wrong.
  239. Profile photo of Pooptart19
    Pooptart19 Male 18-29
    2441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 5:05 pm
    Heureux, how have you not drowned in your bowl of soup yet?
  240. Profile photo of som-tam
    som-tam Male 18-29
    714 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 5:06 pm
    chad, why didn`t iab pick up on that?
  241. Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 5:07 pm
    "Evolution requires all laypeople to accept much of its data, and its conclusions of faith in the work of the scientists who collected the data. Which is fair.

    Religion requires people who have not had experiences of the divine, to have faith in the people who have. Which is fair.

    But, atheism declares that all people of faith are wrong about their own experiences, while demanding that the experiences - the experiments, of scientists be believe.

    Anti-science religious types pull the same thing in reverse - demanding that their testimony be believed, while refusing to believe that of scientists.

    Both are equally wrong."

    I hate people that use faith in its two different contexts. Religious faith is not required for Evolution. I don`t need faith in something other scientists did because I CAN SEE AND READ AND REPEAT THE DATA THEY HAVE DISCOVERED. Religious faith requires blind acceptance of the unseen and untestable. They are NOT the
  242. Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 5:08 pm
    They are NOT the same.

    Regarding your claim about Atheism, you are correct about the first statement. However, Atheism does not say anyone must adhere to anything.

  243. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    Okay then to clarify, If he had stated BIGOTED comments about Gays or someone`s race
    Apples and oranges. Saying Creationism is nonsense is not "against" Chad`s religion, it is the truth. What he in a sense said was the Earth is not 6,000 years old, that all variations of life did not appear at the same time, and dinosaurs did not play with human children. Saying Creationism is nonsense is about as bigoted as saying Santa Claus doesn`t exist.
  244. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 5:43 pm
    Evolution is not a fact and evolution does require faith.
    It is. It has been observed. Google "observed instances of evolution".

    Here is a video i hope you enjoy
    Thanks, it was a good laugh.
    Especially the many times Chesterton brought up long-debunked arguments. Here are a few I spotted:
    - "no missing link", 3:47
    - argument from design, 4:12
    - confusing evolution with abiogenesis, 4:04

    Although I suppose since that debate is almost 80 years old, perhaps the evidence we have since discovered was not available at the time. Was an 80-year-old debate the most recent you could find where the creationist position looked remotely tenable?


    The rest was interesting, but not relevant to creation or evolution.

    Also lol at the end, where he states that animals do not make tools. When in fact, that exact behaviour has been observed in several species.
  245. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 5:49 pm
    "When in fact, that exact behaviour has been observed in several species."

    Yeah that made me laugh, just like watching those chimps use their tools to eat the termites.
  246. Profile photo of moefreak
    moefreak Female 18-29
    1963 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:05 pm
    1) Personally, I pretty much agree with the teacher.
    2) As a teacher, he should not have been voicing his personal opinions, certainly not as fact.
    3) Suing over this is completely ridiculous. I had plenty of teachers who spouted their own personal beliefs (including one in elementary who slammed a bible down on his desk and said "everything you need to know is right here") but I didn`t sue any of them. You can inform the principal, and after that it`s up to him to deal with as far as I am concerned.
  247. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:07 pm
    damn, i wish i could have been apart of the evolution/creationism argument. i have been busy studying for my evolution final.
  248. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:11 pm
    "i have been busy studying for my evolution final."

    I wish i was doing evolution. I`m currently having to prepare for my tests on enzyme kinetics and inhibitors and neuroendocrinology.

    Good luck with your final =]
  249. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:14 pm
    "i wish i could have been apart of the evolution/creationism argument. i have been busy studying for my evolution final."

    then you were apart from it lol
  250. Profile photo of seabass101dg
    seabass101dg Male 18-29
    478 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:20 pm
    Well the religious portion is fact, but the conservatives remark is a but out of line regardless of your political affiliation.
  251. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:25 pm
    damn, i wish i could have been apart of the evolution/creationism argument
    I wish I could evolve the way the creationists portray evolution. *poof* and I suddenly become something better.
  252. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:39 pm
    There`s no real proof for evolutionism. Nothing + nothing = nothing. Not something. Where did that first "particle" come from? Nothing?
    Evolutionist believe that everything just expanded from nothing.
    I find it amusing that the vast majority of people who challenge evolution don`t actually have the first concept of what evolution actually *IS*.

    Besides, please stop using the term "evolutionist". Nowadays its called "biologist". Would you call everyone who believes the earth goes around the sun a "galilean"? Seriously, stop it.
  253. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:40 pm
    Stating that creationism is not science, or creationism is not consistent with the observable phenomena in our Universe would both be totally appropriate. True, "nonsense" almost means the same thing, but carries a sense of personal judgment not appropriate for the classroom. His choice of words and tone were intended to insult those who disagree with him.
  254. Profile photo of Septemberex
    Septemberex Female 13-17
    646 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:45 pm
    I myself believe in the evolutionary theory, but Creationism is legitimate belief and I understand why people would want to stick to their religious beliefs even in the face of undeniable fact. This teacher was completely inappropriate to teach in that manner and deserves what he gets.
  255. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:45 pm
    @nottaspy
    that would be awesome, since i live so far up in this building you would think an intelligent designer would give me wings
  256. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:48 pm
    @Septemberex
    no, no it`s not
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS
    FOSSILS

    & anything else that`s over 6000 years old
  257. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 6:51 pm
    davymid- you make an excellent point. Most of the arguments I see against evolution and the big bang theory involve a ridiculous straw-man argument. Kind of like if I were to say "Genesis says that man was made from clay, but I`m not made of clay therefore Genesis is incorrect."

    Also building on what Davymid said, I kindly ask creationists to keep in mind that you will be remembered by history in much the same way as those who called Galileo a heretic- in fact much of the world already sees you that way.
  258. Profile photo of Fojos
    Fojos Male 18-29
    170 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:14 pm
    @Septemberex.

    You yourself say stick to their own belief even if it`s proven wrong by fact, and you also say it`s a legitimate belief?

    Wow.

    Only fools believe in creationism, the same kind of fools who believe in ghosts and not "aliens".
  259. Profile photo of Ogen
    Ogen Male 18-29
    441 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:16 pm
    Sorry, but you can`t talk about religion in school. Not even to insult it. If Atheists don`t want religion taught in school, religious people get that you can`t teach against religion.
  260. Profile photo of plastinum
    plastinum Male 30-39
    329 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:17 pm
    hmm.. so much for fair and unbiased reporting...but then again we ARE talking about FOX news here......
  261. Profile photo of hammerdrop
    hammerdrop Male 13-17
    199 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:31 pm
    The fact of the matter is that this teacher is way out of line. As far as I know, he`s teaching in a public school, where religious tolerance must be upheld. If the tables were turned, and this teacher was bashing atheism or gay rights, all you liberals would be up in arms against him, but because he`s calling out religion the kid is in the wrong.

    Before you go calling me another "right wing, Fox watching conservative asshat", just know that I`m a libertarian and an atheist, I do think religion is bullpoo. But that doesn`t mean I`m not insensitive to other peoples beliefs (despite how blind I know them to truly be) I let them live in blissful ignorance.
  262. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:36 pm
    Scientific theories are greater than laws because they incorporate laws into them and account for all facts. Laws start off as theories but they become `laws` after they are tested for quite a long time.

    That`s not how it works. You seem to know better, as your next post stated:

    Not only that, most laws are just axioms. They don`t postulate how, the why, the who, the whatever. Theories do all of that.

    Scientific laws and theories are different things. A theory can`t be "promoted" into a law with enough evidence. A law is a precise description of a very specific thing. A theory is an explanation with a much wider scope.
  263. Profile photo of GHudston
    GHudston Male 18-29
    182 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:39 pm
    @Ogen

    We`re not saying that they should teach Atheism. We`re saying that they should teach science and history. The Atheism part just comes naturally once a person understands these things.

    Facts are not there to "insult" religion. It is religion that is incompatible with the facts.

    Besides, I think that schools in the US should teach religion like we do here in the UK. Most students here are taught the facts about all major world religions and cultures from a totally neutral standpoint; allowing them to form their own conclusion. Guess what conclusion most of them come to?
  264. Profile photo of maniacalg
    maniacalg Male 40-49
    92 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:52 pm
    Just wait until they find a fossilized snake near an apple core, then you`ll all be sorry!
  265. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:53 pm
    We DID NOT grow from monkeys, you ignoramus.

    We evolved from a common ancestor. As in, at some point thousands or even millions of years ago, there was a creature that was similar to either a monkey or a human, and through evolution the descendants of said creature separated into two distinct species, the monkey and the human being.

    The available evidence indicates that the last common ancestor was at least 12 million years ago. There`s a long way between humans and monkeys.

    Even the closest of the other primates (chimpanzees) doesn`t appear to have a common ancestor with humanity in the last 6 million years or so.

    There were other primate species much closer to humans, but the last of them (homo neanderthalenis) became extinct by about 30,000 years ago.
  266. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 7:57 pm
    And here you are insulting it. There`s no real proof for evolutionism. Nothing + nothing = nothing. Not something. Where did that first "particle" come from? Nothing? Where did that come from? Ah, I`m not going to continue here. Everyone is entitled to their own believes, I just found this particular IAB article comment to be quite.. idiotic.

    Yes, you are. Or maybe, being charitable, just spectacularly ignorant.

    You are confusing evolution with abiogenesis. Until you learn the difference, you will continue to be an ignorant fool ranting rubbish at people because of your own ignorance.
  267. Profile photo of Llamaz
    Llamaz Male 13-17
    339 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:01 pm
    His "Jesus glasses" comment was relevant to history. Throughout history, religion has been used to persuade peasants to support things that would negatively affect them.
  268. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    one of our most distant ancestors was a monkey.

    No it wasn`t.

    So to say that we evolved from monkeys isn`t wrong.

    Yes it is.

    Monkeys and humans have a distant common ancestor (more than 10 million years distant). That`s a completely different thing.

    Saying that humans are descended from monkeys is far less true than saying that you are descended from me. You and I have a common ancestor far more recently than 10 million years ago. Likely more recently than 10 thousand years ago.
  269. Profile photo of AfroAussie
    AfroAussie Male 18-29
    73 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:04 pm
    Lol, you American`s and your strange beliefs.
  270. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:10 pm
    The available evidence indicates that the last common ancestor was at least 12 million years ago. There`s a long way between humans and monkeys.
    Okay, now we have a time frame that I severely under-estimated. But you get the point, right?

    That all these people who think they know evolution don`t really know a thing about it?
  271. Profile photo of hammerdrop
    hammerdrop Male 13-17
    199 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:11 pm
    @Afroaussie

    All Australians are criminals.

    Hey look! I can make unreasonable stereotypes too!
  272. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:11 pm
    Natural selection is fact and has been observed. Biological evolution is fact. What is there to debate?
  273. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:15 pm
    @nubblins
    unfortunately there will always be the issue of creationists not being able to stick to words meaning what their definition is
  274. Profile photo of DHalo
    DHalo Male 13-17
    10 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:39 pm
    Reganom:

    "If someones belief is that weak that purely expressing a contrary oppinion is considered a threat to your belief then you clearly don`t believe strongly.

    With regards to the fact about respecting others beliefs. I hardly think its respectful to be told that i will be going to hell for not believing in JC and God. Or for homosexual to behave as how they want, as they believe is right, to be condemned to hell. "

    That may be the Christian belief, but I don`t personally approach gay people and tell them "You`re going to hell." I simply leave them be, as they have the right to believe whatever they want. You`re basing an entire populace on the loudest and most annoying, thus making you just as bad as them.
  275. Profile photo of lucidexistan
    lucidexistan Male 30-39
    59 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:46 pm
    Oooh, this makes me angry and loses even more faith in humanity. Religion is rather evil!
  276. Profile photo of yusterdai
    yusterdai Female 18-29
    126 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:48 pm
    Im suprised more teachers dont get sued for trying to teach creationism..
  277. Profile photo of agl126
    agl126 Male 18-29
    51 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:51 pm
    @hammerdrop

    Cultural context. Australia is much more secular than the US, and frankly a whole lot of us DO think that a lot of you hold strange beliefs. I`ve just been in North Carolina for 6 months, and to be fair, the stereotype held true!
  278. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:55 pm
    All Australians are criminals.
    That`s not true. They`re just descended from criminal ancestors.

    See what I did there?

    Just kidding, Aussies!
  279. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 8:59 pm
    Okay, now we have a time frame that I severely under-estimated. But you get the point, right?

    That all these people who think they know evolution don`t really know a thing about it?

    I think a few of them do know a bit and are lying, but in almost all cases yes, they`re totally ignorant. Certainly no-one can know anything about evolution and argue it doesn`t exist without lying. The few who are lying mislead the many who are ignorant.

    I`ve given a quick overview of what evolution actually is to a fair few theists IRL who thought they were dead set against it. Those that actually listened realised that they weren`t dumb enough to ignore what evolution actually is, as opposed to the disinformation they`d been fed about it. So they switched to thinking that their god created life, created evolution and used it to make humans, sort of like a smith making their own tools to smith with.
  280. Profile photo of kingadaQ
    kingadaQ Male 18-29
    21 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:05 pm
    Teachers do have a responsibility to respect the beliefs of their students... But c`mon... why is this still an issue?? Evolution happened... and continues to progress even today. It`s scientific fact. Deal with it Christians!!!

    Check it out:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sxh_L1LUNk
  281. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:16 pm
    angilion, homo neandratalis didnt really go extinct, they are still around. at least their genes are, which is how we constitute a species now. when homo sapien expanded from africa that mated with homo neandratalis that had already been around in europe and asia. most non-africans nowadays share just as much (if not more) genetic information with homo neandratalis as homo sapien.
  282. Profile photo of Darkhumour
    Darkhumour Male 18-29
    257 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:25 pm
    i just hope that all students know they have the right in the classroom that they don`t need to be discriminated against oh ! and that i have the right to sue the school board for 16 million but of course i`m not gonna mention my selfish reasons for doing this when pandering for sympathy over the news
  283. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:29 pm
    @cobrakiller, last I heard it was 1% to 4% of modern, non-African genes were Neanderthal. Did I misunderstand that you are saying it is over 50%?
  284. Profile photo of knw257
    knw257 Male 18-29
    2 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:29 pm
    My only objection to this story is the "rightful" comment in the description. Creationism can neither be proven nor disproven. Other than that, both what the teacher said and what the kid did were both insane.
  285. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:29 pm
    Ohhh wow that teacher was soooooo right he bashed a students belief awesome if the kid was gay it would be wrong if it was a racist rant its wrong but if your a christian everything should go? If that`s what some you guys have come to condone I`d rather be superstitious than just another a hole. On another note who wins here money taken away from an already failing public school system just to oppose "superstitious nonsense" and they say religion is fail.
  286. Profile photo of ledzeppeloyd
    ledzeppeloyd Male 18-29
    2385 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:30 pm
    only on fox news, trying to protect their kind (white republican christians)
  287. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:31 pm
    @agl126-
    You do realize that North Carolina is not particularly representative of the rest of the US, right? I mean really, no state is. You`ve gotta do a lot of travelling to really get a good picture of the US and the people in it.
  288. Profile photo of beerbaby
    beerbaby Male 30-39
    84 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:32 pm
    Am I wrong in saying that this is what Socrates was condemned for? Am i wrong in thinking that?
  289. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:33 pm
    angilion, homo neandratalis didnt really go extinct, they are still around. at least their genes are, which is how we constitute a species now. when homo sapien expanded from africa that mated with homo neandratalis that had already been around in europe and asia. most non-africans nowadays share just as much (if not more) genetic information with homo neandratalis as homo sapien.

    The largest estimate is a 1-4% overlap of genes in Europe, and that`s disputed. It`s very hard to tell because homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis had a very close common ancestor - do the overlapping genes come from homo neanderthalensis or homo erectus?

    But no-one who has a clue, absolutely no-one, is arguing that at least 50% of homo sapiens DNA outside of Africa comes from homo neanderthalensis. Especially since neanderthals didn`t even exist in most of the world (just in Europe and part of Asia).
  290. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:36 pm
    "Throughout history, religion has been used to persuade peasants to support things that would negatively affect them."

    Now it`s religion and political ideology. Republicans convince poor people that it`s in their own interests to cut taxes to billionaires and cut programs that would benefit them directly (education, medicare, unemployment benefits). But at least they`re honest about their agenda- they do what they say they`re gonna do. Democrats pretend to stand up for peace, equality and human rights in order to get the vote of people who care about those things, while in reality most Democratic politicians are actively working against those things.
  291. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:38 pm
    Ohhh wow that teacher was soooooo right he bashed a students belief awesome if the kid was gay it would be wrong if it was a racist rant its wrong but if your a christian everything should go?

    Are you seriously arguing that Christianity is biological and Christians have no choice but believe provably incorrect things?

    Really? You believe that?

    Even if it was true, it would still be completely different to "race" or sexual orientation.

    You have also failed to recognise two important things:

    i) The teacher didn`t even mention Christianity.
    ii) The teacher didn`t bash any religion.

    You`re talking rubbish.
  292. Profile photo of mahe4
    mahe4 Male 18-29
    57 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:44 pm
    somehow i want to smash chads face...
  293. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:46 pm
    um...what did the teacher do wrong?
  294. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:48 pm
    Are you seriously arguing that Christianity is biological
    Oh, you`d be surprised. I was recently debating with a well-known and outspoken Christian who frequents these boards. I pointed out to him that he`s only a fervent Christian because he was brought up in America, and that he had been born into a Muslim family in the Middle East he`d be a fervent Muslim etc, if he were brought up in India he`d be a Hindu, if he were brought up in Ancient Greece he`d be a believer in Zeus and Apollo.

    He told me in no uncertain terms (and presumably with a straight face) I was talking bullcrap and that he would be a Christian no matter where or when he was brought up. He presumably believes just that, that being Christian is as biological as being caucasian, or black, or asian. Of course, this same user affirms that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice (and also a disease/addiction), so he won`t agree with you on the biological nature of homosexuality.
  295. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:49 pm
    "Am I wrong in saying that this is what Socrates was condemned for? Am i wrong in thinking that?"

    Yes, you are. Socrates did not declare people`s assumptions and beliefs to be nonsense- he asked questions which challenged those beliefs and assumptions. He pissed people off by getting them to demonstrate their own ignorance. This guy is just flat out calling people ignorant. There is a difference.
  296. Profile photo of mrpuddle
    mrpuddle Male 18-29
    385 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:52 pm
    lol i love how the trolls come out for these posts...best not to feed a troll. Best way to tell one is over 1000 posts in less than a year.
  297. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 9:54 pm
    I wonder if that "well-known and outspoken Christian" is the same one that made the claim that school textbooks haven`t changed much since 1980 and thus that science is dying.
  298. Profile photo of lilsheep
    lilsheep Male 18-29
    225 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:01 pm
    lol @ BIAS
  299. Profile photo of Vemados
    Vemados Male 13-17
    41 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:02 pm
    when did iab get so one sided
  300. Profile photo of Francakes
    Francakes Female 18-29
    157 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:23 pm
    I still think it`s possible we were created even if evolution is all around us. I`m not stupid either. In my opinion, this was a freak out and as a teacher he should have been more mature then that.
  301. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:34 pm
    "Creationism can neither be proven nor disproven."

    lol...
    so you think it can`t be proven or disproven that the world is only 6000 years old?
  302. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:51 pm
    I think some of us are arguning at cross purposes here. Some definitions are required.

    Some people think of Creation in terms of there being a divine creator of the universe, who set the universe in motion with all the laws science that goes along with it. Although I don`t personally believe it, I have no argument with that position. Though in some circles that would be called Deism rather than Theism.

    Then there`s Young Earth Creationism, which is a different fish altogether. I personally have no problem with someone believing in divine creation, as long as you keep it the f*ck out of the science classroom and leave the science to the scientists. When you bring *THAT* sh*t to the table, I`m going to shoot it down. Every goddam time.
  303. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:52 pm
    A fun link seeing as the thread is fizzling out, and one of my personal favourites.

    http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=34934

    p.s. not defending that teacher, I thought he went too far, especially when he went on to bash modern-day conservatism.
  304. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 10:54 pm
    angilion and notaspy, technically we share over 90% of our DNA with Homo Sapiens, Homo neadratalis, Homo erectus, and even chimpanzees. i messed up what i said, that 50% just refers to variable genetic information. Think of how big even 1% pointed toward a specific species is when 90% is shared amongst that whole group.
  305. Profile photo of knw257
    knw257 Male 18-29
    2 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:06 pm
    "so you think it can`t be proven or disproven that the world is only 6000 years old?"

    You`re assuming when I say Creationism, I mean Young Earth Creationism. Probably shouldn`t make assumptions such as that.

    When I say Creationism can`t be proven or dis-proven, I mean just that. It`s not possible to determine if there was in fact an intelligence or other force at work in creating the universe, because that force would be, by definition, outside the universe (and natural laws). So, IF there is a creator of some kind, it`s unknowable to us.
  306. Profile photo of ROK9
    ROK9 Male 18-29
    1834 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:10 pm
    stupid teacher is stupid
  307. Profile photo of Chaosmaster
    Chaosmaster Male 30-39
    234 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:19 pm
    Ah, creationism vs. evolutionism. The subject that brings out the worst fanatics of both sides.

    Now to make things worse.
    Atheism is a religion as it is a belief in nothing.

    Wrap your heads around that.
  308. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:41 pm
    All right, where do you think the apes came from? How do you think they um...hmm...lost their tails? Or rather, they shrunk? Unless, just maybe...we all come even more DISTANTLY from a monkey ancestor. I am not saying that is our most recent ancestor, but if you go back far enough it isn`t far off to say that we evolved from monkeys. Not that it`s our most recent ancestor. I just hate when people use these cookie-cutter "homo-erectus" and "lucy" yadda yadda as the only bit of information they know about our ancestors. We also come from monkeys, an ancestor like a lemur, an ancestor like a marsupial rat, etc. etc.
  309. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:44 pm
    @Sprinkz
    ancestor means your parents or their parents or their parents ...
    your cousin is not your ancestor, your cousin species is not your ancestor species
  310. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:48 pm
    All right then explain how I have no ancestors beyond apes. Are you meaning to tell me that a bunch of animals just conglomerated together or something? Or they passed on their DNA like almost everything else on this planet by sexual reproduction? It`s not a total lie to say that we evolved from monkeys more distantly. I don`t get what the aversion to it is. I know that our most common ancestor wasn`t even an ape. So to say we evolved from apes is just downright stupid if you want to get to the meat of it. Our common ancestor was nothing like the apes that we are familiar with.
  311. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:50 pm
    "You`re assuming when I say Creationism, I mean Young Earth Creationism. Probably shouldn`t make assumptions such as that."

    that`s the only version that comes to mind that conflicts with evolution, evolution doesn`t say God couldn`t be the source of the beginning of it
  312. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:58 pm
    Ah, creationism vs. evolutionism. The subject that brings out the worst fanatics of both sides.
    Please, for the love of God, stop calling it evolutionism. Your post should read, "Ah, creationism vs. science". Read that back to yourself as you type on plastic keys which decode individual keystrokes which are sent at close to the speed of light down fibre-optic cables to be decoded on my end and displayed on my liquid crystal laptop screen so that I can respond to you, via the medium of the internet.

    Atheism is a religion as it is a belief in nothing.
    To wheel out an old adage, atheism is not a belief in nothing, it`s a lack of belief in god or gods of any kind. Atheism is to religion as bald is a hair colour. Atheism is to religion is not collecting stamps is a hobby. Atheism is to religion as not giving a f*ck about the NFL is the football team you support.
  313. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 5, 2010 at 11:58 pm
    Atheism is simply the default position. It`s vanilla. No child is born Christian, or Muslim, or Scientologist, or whatever. Children are a blank slate, and by default are atheist until told otherwise. Religion is a personal world-view that is imprinted on people through their experiences and social environment. To say that atheism is just another religion is deeply, deeply retarded.

    It`s like saying that people that don`t support Manchester United are soccer fans too, just of a different sort.

    I assure you, we`re not.
  314. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 12:10 am
    @Sprinkz
    monkey - "any cercopithecoid (Old World monkey) or platyrrhine (New World monkey) primate. All primates that are not prosimians or apes are monkeys."
    even assuming you mean a monkey that predates man, monkeys &#8745; apes = {0}, so you can`t evolve from a monkey
    Humans are Great Apes (hominidae)
    i think you`re confusing monkey with primate, you and monkeys share primate ancestors, but neither you nor a monkey are the others ancestor
  315. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 12:12 am
    @davy
    aw you totally shoulda gone from the keys to his screen to his evolved eyes/brain etc, to his thought process of confirming he typed it right, back to the computer, then to you :P
  316. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 12:19 am
    "monkeys &#8745; apes = {0}"
    k that`s supposed to say monkeys intersect apes is null but the intersect symbol is apparently not supported here, point is they don`t overlap
  317. Profile photo of KMeTG
    KMeTG Male 18-29
    1265 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 12:20 am
    So, basically:

    TEACHER: Religions control people. Creationism is wrong.
    STUDENT: I`m offended and will sue you and win.

    Why do people have the freedom to openly state their beliefs while other people don`t have the freedom to say they disagree?

    It sends a very clear message: a person`s faith is on an unassailable plinth. If you tell them their beliefs are wrong, you will suffer the consequences. Why should the topic of religion be handled with kid-gloves?
  318. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:20 am
    I feel like I`m talking to a kid who just recites what they hear in class. I am talking about way back. Not 10 million years back. I never said a recent ancestor, and they are not recent by any measure of mine.

    In a distant way we are related to everything on the planet.
  319. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 2:24 am
    SPrinkZ...

    I`m a little curious now as to your position overall.

    You are strongly supporting a piece of propaganda that creationists made up as deliberate disinformation against science, namely that people who accept that evolution exists think that humans are descended from monkeys.

    Yet you don`t openly advocate young earth creationism.

    So are you a YEC pretending to be someone who accepts the reality of evolution, in order to spread the anti-evolution propaganda more effectively? That would be a clever move.

    Or are you just conned by the creationist disinformation propaganda?

    It has to be one of those because the idea that humans evolved from monkey has absolutely nothing to do with evolution. It`s a lie made up by creationists claiming it`s part of evolution.
  320. Profile photo of teph2112
    teph2112 Male 13-17
    650 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 2:30 am
    Ah darn, I see how that one "superstitious nonsense" can be viewed at hate speech against a religious group.
    Still, w/e America, have fun with your ignorant majority :D
  321. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 2:37 am
    cobrakiller:

    I am curious about something which is a logical conclusion from your stated belief about humans and neanderthals.

    Do you think that people from Africa are a different species to people from elsewhere?

    More specifically, people whose ancestors were in Africa during the period of time that humans and neanderthals co-existed in Europe and part of Asia.

    You`re arguing that they are pure human while everyone else is less than half human...so are you arguing that they are superior to everyone else?
  322. Profile photo of TokioKoos
    TokioKoos Female 18-29
    412 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 2:52 am
    I totally agree with KMeTG.

    On a funnier note: the boy is called Chad? XD
  323. Profile photo of TokioKoos
    TokioKoos Female 18-29
    412 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 2:55 am
    Angillion: Didn`t you see that documentary where this guy traced the males` Y-chromosome DNA and found that all males` original ancestor was from Mongolia, not from Africa. Nothing can be said about maternal DNA, though, but know your facts. Were there humans in Africa before the humans in Mongolia? Undoubtedly. But are they our ancestors? Can`t be said with certainty.
  324. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 2:57 am
    I am not speaking about modern monkeys, and we didn`t evolve from modern apes either. I am talking about very very very very very very very far back. Most recently we evolved from a common ancestor we share with apes, but not directly on the line with modern day monkeys. But apes came from an ancestor that was similar to a monkey, and they to a lemur, and they to a marsupial esque rat. If I am wrong, then let me know, but I am pretty sure I am not talking out of my ass and I`d appreciate if it you would stop just contradicting me and tell me why I am wrong, because I feel this is just a misunderstanding.
  325. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 3:02 am
    Maternal DNA is easier to trace since it is carried through the mitochondrial DNA. I am pretty sure we can be traced to a single female ancestor, and a single male ancestor. But, they never lived at the same time together. No Adam and Eve.
  326. Profile photo of Greylights
    Greylights Male 18-29
    29 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 4:05 am
    Strange - I more or less agree with the teacher, though his comments were too religious to be acceptable in a classroom. But calling creationism `superstitious nonsense` seems completely fine to me. The courts came to that conclusion themselves some time ago.
  327. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 4:29 am
    Angillion: Didn`t you see that documentary where this guy traced the males` Y-chromosome DNA and found that all males` original ancestor was from Mongolia, not from Africa.

    No. Are you confusing original ancestry with the study showing a remarkable number of men descended from Genghis Khan?

    I`ve seen studies tracing patrilineal ancestry using Y chromosomes and they point back to Africa, just as those tracing matrilineal ancestry using mDNA do.

    Nothing can be said about maternal DNA, though, but know your facts.

    A great deal can be said about maternal lineage, due to mitochondrial DNA. I know my facts fairly well.

    Were there humans in Africa before the humans in Mongolia? Undoubtedly. But are they our ancestors? Can`t be said with certainty.

    i) Humans in Africa before Mongolia.
    ii) All male humans descended from those in Mongolia.

    How do you reconcile that?
  328. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 4:33 am
    If I am wrong, then let me know, but I am pretty sure I am not talking out of my ass and I`d appreciate if it you would stop just contradicting me and tell me why I am wrong, because I feel this is just a misunderstanding.

    There have been a few posts doing that already. So I`m starting to shout in frustration.

    The essence of where you are wrong is that HUMANS ARE NOT DESCENDED FROM MONKEYS.

    That statement is creationist propaganda, deliberate disinformation.

    The actual position from biologists is that humans and monkeys are both descended from a common ancestor WHICH WAS NOT A MONKEY.

    NOT

    A

    MONKEY
  329. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 4:50 am
    Angillion, sorry, but I`m coming over all pedantic today... you missed out a point in your `reconcile this` statement

    iii) Unbroken human occupancy of Africa.

    Otherwise i) and ii) would be possible, though seriously unlikely, if the population had died back to a mongolian stronghold before repopulating the planet.

    (for the stupid - this did not happen OK)
  330. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 4:56 am
    Also i`m going to re point this out. The vast majority of what was filmed was not help up in court. If i recall correctly only one clip was allowed.

    It seems many people are still under the impression that fox news is unbiases and will present only the pure unadulterated facts. For those that know not to just listen to one side, here is the teachers explanations.

    The teachers defence
  331. Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 5:10 am
    Can any of you creationists please tell me why your creation theory is correct and every other theory (other non-christian religion, evolution etc.) is wrong without saying anything that is a negative proof fallacy. ie. we can`t explain why it happens therefore god must make it happen.
  332. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 5:21 am
    "When I say Creationism can`t be proven or dis-proven, I mean just that. It`s not possible to determine if there was in fact an intelligence or other force at work in creating the universe"

    What you`re describing here isn`t creationism, or rather it`s not what most people mean when they say it. Creationism generally refers to a literal interpretation Genesis, which is incompatible with a scientific explanation. Neither The Big Bang Theroy nor the Theory of Evolution say explicitly that there is or is not a God. Both describe HOW things came to be, saying nothing about the what caused creation.
  333. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 5:44 am
    Of course we didn`t come from monkeys because. they`re still here haha. Isn`t that how it works? Something evolves and the old disappears....I guess.
    Short answer is simply: No, that`s not how it works.

    Long answer: The old does not disappear. If someone or maybe several people are born with, say, an extra finger, the five-fingered will not die out within a generation.

    Evolution is like a tree, and we are one the twigs at the end. But each branch can have plenty of twigs coming off it. And those offshoots can have offshoots of their own.
    Similarly, because a subset of a species takes a certain evolutionary step does not mean the whole species necessarily will. Sometimes the population may split and the separate groups might take quite different evolutionary paths.
  334. Profile photo of MechBFP
    MechBFP Male 18-29
    813 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 5:47 am
    Hey look 334 posts of HUURR DERP DERP DURRRR
  335. Profile photo of DamienLike
    DamienLike Male 13-17
    705 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 5:52 am
    BUT HE`S TELLING THE TRUTH!!!
  336. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 6:11 am
    Hey look 334 posts of HUURR DERP DERP DURRRR
    The stupidest, most pointless posts in this thread are ones like that. Literally nothing of value to contribute.
  337. Profile photo of paddy215
    paddy215 Male 18-29
    1677 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 6:11 am
    Everyone involved in this story, the teachers, the student (who just had to be called chad), the lawyer and the newsreaders. Of course the teacher should be sacked for his comments, but why the drat should this weasel get money for it?

    By the way the teachers right, I have to go to work in -12C and feck knows how many inches of snow, there clearly is no God!!!
  338. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 6:21 am
    His defense was a good read, as well as the comments on the defense below it. Thanks for posting it. I agree with the court`s ruling after reading this. Religion and atheism should stay out of public schools. Offer both sides and leave it at that, and you won`t find yourself in court with a derpderp student who is butt hurt about his beliefs being challenged.

    He`s probably right in that it was taken out of context. Fox likes to do that. They`re really pro at taking things out of context to spoon-feed their viewers what they want to hear.
    Even those who view Fox and enjoy its programming have to admit that this is true.
  339. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 6:22 am
    By the way the teachers right, I have to go to work in -12C and feck knows how many inches of snow, there clearly is no God!!!
    The snow meant my exam today was postponed, there clearly is a God :P
  340. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 6:47 am
    Nubblins:

    It was quite lucky that this video came up as recommended on youtube for me just a couple of days before this was posted. So i still had the blog in my history and remembered it.

    "Offer both sides and leave it at that"

    I think i`m recalling correctly but only one religious comment, i think about creationism, was allowed by the judge. I believe it was the creationism one, but for me creationism is superstitious nonesence. When creationism is the literal interpretation of genesis. It clearly goes against science. When teaching about the orbits of planets theres no way on (non-flat) earty i`m letting a teacher present the falsehood of earth being the center and would expect him/her to debunk it. Creationism may have been brought up by a student, or pertinent to the lesson.
  341. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 6:48 am
    Bob:

    Mine wasn`t =[ today was just freezing so i still had to do my test. I`m fairly sure i made up a new way of doing maths. By new i mean complete bullcrap.
  342. Profile photo of skite111
    skite111 Male 30-39
    99 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 6:56 am
    It is a terrible thing when a teacher gets sued for teaching his students the truth.
  343. Profile photo of netbaby
    netbaby Female 18-29
    24 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 7:02 am
    I don`t think the issue is whether he is right or wrong. He wasn`t sued for criticizing creationism, he was sued for not doing his job properly. He`s a teacher, he`s paid to teach not to voice his opinion. The whole point of education is to be taught unbiased facts not be rambled at by an opinionated old fool

    If he wants to tell people how he feels, he is free to discuss it with his friends, stand on a soapbox on a street corner and shout about it, whatever he wants, just not in a classroom full of students taking everything he says as fact when really it is his opinion. Very unprofessional and very irresponsible man
  344. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 7:13 am
    "He wasn`t sued for criticizing creationism, he was sued for not doing his job properly"

    Actually he was sued for criticising creationism. Hence why it was considered, wrongly to me, a breach of the kids first ammendement.

    Oh by the way, evolution isn`t an opinion. It`s a scientific theory.
  345. Profile photo of PierreJeanFR
    PierreJeanFR Male 40-49
    1360 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:02 am
    scary when a teacher is sued for doing is job.
    USA! USA!
  346. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:03 am
    angilion, it has nothing to do with superiority. its kind of a controversial study right now, but its just that most people are form homo sapiens who at some point hybridized with homo neandratalis. this even includes people of northern africa including egypt, libya, sudan, and algeria. it doesnt make anybody better than anyone else.
  347. Profile photo of Fuego
    Fuego Male 40-49
    1287 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:18 am
    Holy dratnut! 14 pages of meaningful debate and comments. heh, yeah right.
  348. Profile photo of pumba62
    pumba62 Male 40-49
    1018 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:25 am
    "Christianity is my religion" ...Christianity is NOT a religion ......It is a belief that Jesus is the son of God and one can do this without actually being part of a religion !

    "In this day and age when we are having problems with the economy".....Whaaaaatttt? What does this have to do with the subject at hand ???? I am surprised he didn`t mention 9-11 and terrorists

    "Well I hope there are fewer teachers out there like James corbitt." ...Way to keep and impartial stand on the issues and present the facts as they should be !!!

    Faux news .....it`s our way or you are UnAmerican and a terrorist
  349. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:31 am
    mwaha ha ha they fired you, where is your God now!?!? oh wait
  350. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2335 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:36 am
    Creationism IS superstitious nonsense.

    No number of lawsuits will ever change that.

    Sucks to hold 12th century belief systems in the 21st century, doesn`t it?
  351. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:37 am
    "Christianity is my religion" ...Christianity is NOT a religion ......It is a belief that Jesus is the son of God and one can do this without actually being part of a religion !
    I like how you first state that Christianity is not a religion and then give a definition that exactly meets the criteria for it being a religion.
  352. Profile photo of damokiwi
    damokiwi Male 40-49
    75 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:48 am
    Ha, he`s called Chad.... Nuff said

  353. Profile photo of togoth
    togoth Male 13-17
    129 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:58 am
    i cant believe that of all the stuff he said the court picked on that creationism is crap. It is. its possibly the one thing he says that is definately undeniably true
  354. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:10 am
    Christianity is Not a religion, it is the acknowledgment of Jesus Christ and our relationship with HIM as HIS followers.

    As for creationism, I myself do not take Genesis literally and do not believe that the world was created in 6 (human) days. The length of time we may consider as days can be significantly different from what GOD considers days.

    I do not believe that the world is only 6000 years old because even in the bible it states that earth was here but it was without form, so who knows how long it was actually here before GOD decided to add life to it.

    For those of you out there who have such a cynical view of Christianity and other forms of belief, I`m going to pray for you all, and sincerely hope that you don`t continue to live your lives so negatively whether you believe in a deity or not.

  355. Profile photo of pumba62
    pumba62 Male 40-49
    1018 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:17 am
    "I like how you first state that Christianity is not a religion and then give a definition that exactly meets the criteria for it being a religion."

    Religion is organizations like Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc.etc....Who believe in Jesus but have their own doctrines in which the sheep believe closely reflect their beliefs.
  356. Profile photo of pumba62
    pumba62 Male 40-49
    1018 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:19 am
    Does nobody else think Chad looks like Heath Ledger ?
  357. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:20 am
    Christianity is not a religion?
    lolwut?

    Please do yourself a favor and read a dictionary.
    Christianity is a religion, just as Islam and Judaism are religions.
    Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, etc..
    These are all different denominations of Christianity.
    They all believe in the same superstitious nonsense, they just have different shaped churches and different names for clergy and some have rock bands about Jesus and some wave crazy potpourri in the air.
    If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it`s a duck, you know.
  358. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:21 am
    @ pumba62: Somebody already said that like 10 pages ago. And well said on Religion.
  359. Profile photo of thesandwich
    thesandwich Male 18-29
    150 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:22 am
    Calling a particular group stupid, bad but free speech (note: free speech doesn`t really exist in schools as it does outside them)

    Bluntly stating your opinion on a highly controversial topic, bad but free speech.

    Being sued and ultimately fired for the latter as opposed to the first is honestly the part where I stop and shout WTF?!

    Exposing people to a broad range of ideas is a good thing. The world is not a bubble were the only people living are the only ones who agree with you. And, while not the most polite way to expose people to these different ideas is to bluntly state them.

    I can say from personal experience that I wouldn`t have learned as much if not bluntly exposed. And this is coming from a guy who`s college Bio professor was a creationist and actually taught that in a state that is not Kansas.
  360. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:30 am
    @thesandwich: There`s a difference between being blunt and just being a opinionated jerk.

    EX:
    (Blunt)
    Teacher: The Church is a place where Christians go to worship God.
    (Jerk approach)
    Teacher: The "church" is a place where Jesus-freaks go to worship their phony bologna "god"

  361. Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:52 am
    "Can any of you creationists please tell me why your creation theory is correct and every other theory (other non-christian religion, evolution etc.) is wrong without saying anything that is a negative proof fallacy. ie. we can`t explain why it happens therefore god must make it happen."
    Seriously, I`d like to hear your arguments.
  362. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:18 am
    @Satkela, unfortunately words do have specific definitions and those definitions aren`t, "what Satkela thinks they mean". You believe in Creation, not Creationism. You believe God created the Earth, but not 6,000 years ago.

    Christianity is a religion. Go find a dictionary and look up the definition of "religion". Believing in Jesus as the son of God is a religion and it goes by the name of Christianity.

    You do not need to pray for me, I do not lead a negative life. If there is a God and He judges me on how moral a life I led and not on how I worshiped him, them He would offer me a place in heaven where He would turn some Christians away.

    You have fallen for the church`s propaganda. Atheists are every bit as good and bad as Theists. Atheists find wonder in the universe and give of themselves to help others and enjoy leading positive lives and find the strength to carry on through the hard times, just without a God.
  363. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:27 am
    Angillion, are you denying that my ancestors were once single-celled organisms? Are you denying that my ancestors were lemur like? Are you denying that my ancestors were small, marsupial esque rats?

    Can you address that already. Because I am pretty sure that if you go back far enough you will find an ancestor of humans that RESEMBLES A MODERN DAY MONKEY.

    Our most RECENT ancestor is shared between us and great apes. I am not spouting creationist propaganda. I am spouting what I have heard from biologists. It is not far off to say that we evolved from monkeys in a distant sense. So Old world monkeys -> Great Apes -> Man`s ancestors -> Modern Man

    That is what the hell I am saying for the LAST TIME. I am not saying we directly evolved from modern day monkeys! Clearly you can`t drating read.
  364. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:42 am
    @Nottaspy: I said I`ll pray for those who hold a cynical POV towards others beliefs. If that doesn`t apply to you then don`t reply to that. Every comment I make on here is my opinion and what I deem is my belief on certain topics. To ME Christianity is a relationship with Jesus, not a religion. because I, MYSELF do not like to be religious. I do not view the world as black and white and I do not go by church propaganda. I also know what GOD says in HIS own words--I John 5:12 "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." If you don`t believe in Christ you will not see heaven. point blank. Especially if you know of Christ and choose not to follow him.
  365. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:54 am
    I said I`ll pray for those who hold a cynical POV towards others beliefs.
    What form will this prayer take? Will you be praying for God to change my mind?
  366. Profile photo of NotTHATbored
    NotTHATbored Female 18-29
    1101 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:00 am
    @Satkela

    "If you don`t believe in Christ you will not see heaven. point blank. Especially if you know of Christ and choose not to follow him."

    ^This is the kind of crap that makes people angry and feel like ranting (inappropriate or not)^

    Point blank you have no way of knowing if there is a heaven or who is going to it. So don`t preach to that you are going and others aren`t.
  367. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:05 am
    Satkela:

    I hold no negative views to those who believe in a creator. What i do hold a negative view of is the bible, and those that use it to preach hatred under the guise of freedom of religion.
  368. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:12 am
    @Satkela

    How can you suggest that you don`t follow church propaganda and quote the Bible.
    This is contradiction.

    The Bible is propaganda. It is testament to make non-believers into believers.
    Also, I am of the opinion that it is the worst rubbish ever printed on paper, save for maybe Twilight. But that is neither here nor there. :P
  369. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:13 am
    Nubblin:

    Twilight and the Bible are on par i think. Although twilight is more consistent in it`s story...
  370. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:16 am
    But at least the bible is bad ass with all the rampant baby killing, genocide, rape, etc. Twilight is a bunch of fags with glitter. The bible has people being converted into pillars of salt, lots of fire and brimstone, mass drownings, etc.
  371. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:19 am
    @Satkela, I seem to have misjudged you. It is not that you do not understand the definition of words, it is that you do not think logically. You claim you are not religious, yet you quote the Bible and believe in Jesus and God and Heaven. Sorry to break it to you, but you are religious and Christianity is a religion.

    ...that is the WTF?
    Btw, that is your post that you posted on the Sabbath. Guess you`re not going to heaven either since you can`t even keep 1 day a week holy.

    Trading Bible quotes is stupid. Anybody can quote the Bible to suit any view point they want.
  372. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:19 am
    Fair enough.
    I especially enjoyed the part about stoning non-virgins to death.

    I had to delete my last post because I meant to say non-virgins and I wrote virgins. woooops. heh.
  373. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:23 am
    @NotTHATBored: I`m going by what is in the BIBLE, if you don`t like it then that`s on you.

    @almightybob: No sir, you are entitled to your own opinion, I`m just praying for you to have good health in general.
  374. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:38 am
    Call me what you wish but I know what I am. I am not a religious person, I do not take EVERYTHING in the bible literally, and I shall continue to pray for you cynics (you know who you are) and those who take the bible completely out of context. (Those who are stating event that occurred in the OLD testament BTW) and those who are comparing the holy bible to that poorly written book about sparkly vamps and the chicks that love them...that`s just low...real low...
  375. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:39 am
    "Those who are stating event that occurred in the OLD testament BTW"

    is it a different God in the old testament?
  376. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:53 am
    I am not a religious person

    I shall continue to pray
    LOL, we know what you are too.
  377. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 12:05 pm
    @Reganom
    Genesis does say that man was made in `their` image.
    :D Now that could just be poor translation, but hey, you never know.

    @Satkela
    It`s not fair to pick and choose what to take from the Bible and what not to take from the Bible. It`s either the word of God, or it`s not.
    Make up your mind and stick with it.
    Either you believe Genesis or you don`t. You can`t just say, `God`s days are different..` Then why call it a goddamn day? At least Young Earth Creationists have the balls to stand by their delusions.
  378. Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 12:35 pm
    @Satkela:`I myself do not take Genesis literally`, `even in the bible it states that earth was here but it was without form` `Every comment I make on here is my opinion` `I also know what GOD says in HIS own words--I John 5:12`
    `I`m going by what is in the BIBLE`
    `Those who are stating event that occurred in the OLD testament` -
    I`m confused, which bits of the bible are real and which aren`t. How do you know which to take literally and which not? I thought the old testament was Gods word and the new was Jesus`s teachings but aren`t they the same? Or is Jesus an improved version of God.
    Your religion makes science look simple
  379. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 12:44 pm
    @Satkela
    So you stick to the Bible? Ever eat pork? or any other not kosher animal?

    7 Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.

    8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

    9 These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:

    10 And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
    - Deuteronomy 14:7-10

    From there it goes on to talk about birds, but few people eat storks or eagles so I`ll leave that part out.

    Seems pretty literal and straightforward to me but I`m betting you broke it and so God`s gonna send you to hell because that`s how he rolls.
  380. Profile photo of sssfdg
    sssfdg Male 18-29
    190 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:04 pm
    I agree with the teachers opinions, thats for damn sure... I could rant for hours on how backwards conservatives and christians are.

    but... Religion has no place in the class room..

    consequently ... as creationism is a part of religion (and not fact)... it has no place in the classroom as well. Only evolution does.

    Religion and creationism is for sunday school not highschool.
  381. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:19 pm
    For those of you out there who have such a cynical view of Christianity and other forms of belief, I`m going to pray for you all,

    No you aren`t. You`re going to pray for yourself, so you can feel righteous. If you were considering other people, you`d ask them.

    and sincerely hope that you don`t continue to live your lives so negatively whether you believe in a deity or not.

    But then who would you feel superior to?

    I don`t regard my position as being negative, so I don`t care. In fact, I regard it as being more positive than theism.
  382. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:27 pm
    That is what the hell I am saying for the LAST TIME. I am not saying we directly evolved from modern day monkeys! Clearly you can`t drating read.

    Here are quotes from you:

    Sunday, December 05, 2010 11:41:06 PM
    We also come from monkeys

    Sunday, December 05, 2010 4:16:10 PM
    one of our most distant ancestors was a monkey. So to say that we evolved from monkeys isn`t wrong.


    I said it before and I`ll say it again:

    Saying that humans are descended from monkeys is far less true than saying that you are descended from me. You and I have a common ancestor far more recently than 10 million years ago. Likely more recently than 10 thousand years ago.
  383. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:35 pm
    Call me what you wish but I know what I am. I am not a religious person, I do not take EVERYTHING in the bible literally, and I shall continue to pray for you cynics (you know who you are) and those who take the bible completely out of context.

    So you make up your own religion and claim biblical authority for it by picking out bits that you can interpret to mean what you want and ignoring the rest.

    Given how foul and vile the Christian bible is, that`s not surprising. A Christian who`s a decent person has to do that.

    I know a Christian who`s managed to convince herself that adultery is absolutely fine according to Christianity, because that`s what she wants in her Christianity. I used to think that was weird, but on reflection it`s not really any weirder than is normal for Christians.

    By the way, you can`t pray for me. You can only pray for yourself.
  384. Profile photo of majornougat
    majornougat Male 13-17
    48 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:35 pm
    @ I-IS-BORED

    Im not even christian and i know that later in the bible after Jesus comes or whatever that he turns that law around...

    About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

    "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

    The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
    Acts 10 (9-15)

    regardless of how BS it is trolling is not teh answer.
  385. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:39 pm
    and those who are comparing the holy bible to that poorly written book about sparkly vamps and the chicks that love them...that`s just low...real low...

    I agree. The Twilight books don`t command their fans to kill people for things such as working on the wrong day of the week (amongst many other things - that`s just the first example that came into my head), or order women to be silent in the company of men, or celebrate the ultimate bully`s mass murdering sprees, or...well, I think I`ve made my point.
  386. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:50 pm
    Either you believe Genesis or you don`t. You can`t just say, `God`s days are different..` Then why call it a goddamn day? At least Young Earth Creationists have the balls to stand by their delusions.

    I disagree on that point. It is internally consistent to think that the six days referred to isn`t 144 hours:

    i) "day" is being used non-literally. We do that in English all the time, e.g. "in Caesar`s day", "olden days", etc.

    ii) A time-concept that doesn`t have a direct translation into Hebrew was written as `day` for want of a better word. Time is not going to be the same for an immortal, omnipotent and omniscient deity.

    iii) God was arranging lighting as they saw fit. `day` and `night` are just defined as light and dark periods in the Christian stories of genesis - it doesn`t say how long they are. The sun wasn`t even created until halfway through.
  387. Profile photo of ruthless1990
    ruthless1990 Female 18-29
    3001 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:55 pm
    I have two words to describe how i feel about the debates that go on over religious beliefs on IAB.

    fed. up.
  388. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 1:55 pm
    majornougat, I counter you with Matthew 5:18, which is stated to be a direct quote from Jesus:

    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    So the Mosaic laws, including all the food laws, do apply to Christians, according to that verse.

    And they don`t, according to the verses you quoted.

    The Christian bible contradicts itself frequently.

  389. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 2:51 pm
    Less true =/= True. Thank you for at least acknowledge we have ancestry that goes back PAST our common ancestor. Thank you for FINALLY RECOGNIZING THE OBVIOUS POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE. >_<fdsajfdsajfdsajksdadas kfasdfasdp[fdasasdplfwejfpowefasd
  390. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 3:23 pm
    @majornougat
    that`s part of the point, one book says one thing and another says another, we both quoted books that are accepted as part of the new testament
  391. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 3:41 pm
    The Christian bible is a contradiction. One big slew of contradiction after contradiction after contradiction. Some directly and cannot be misinterpreted or taken out of context, and some more ambiguous, but mainly it is a book of contradictions. I don`t understand how it holds up to any scrutiny. Wait, it doesn`t...but somehow it still survives. What a virus it is.
  392. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 5:07 pm
    This forum went from being about why you shouldn`t belittle someone in public, to religion vrs science.

    Way to go.
  393. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 5:11 pm
    @Angilion 6 posts in under 40 min. Are you that desperate to get your point across, or do enjoy trolling? Seriously man, you may have some kind of anti-theist point to get across, but it comes off as pathetic.
  394. Profile photo of etrg92
    etrg92 Male 18-29
    43 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 5:23 pm
    @elkingo I agree!,

    This video was not meant to turn you christian or religious, or to be an argument over translations of the bible. I am not christian but what I am is an open minded person and I am glad he stuck up for himself. I would not just sit there and let some one tell me that the sky is green and that what I see is fake. Good for him. Way to turn something moral into something completely insane. d-bags
  395. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 7:35 pm
    Less true =/= True. Thank you for at least acknowledge we have ancestry that goes back PAST our common ancestor.

    Oh yeah, because before now I was saying that humans were created as primates because I`m a creationist. Obviously. That must have been why I was arguing against creationism right from the start of this thread (and for 30-odd years before it).

    Thank you for FINALLY RECOGNIZING THE OBVIOUS POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE

    You were making the point that humans are descended from monkeys.

    You were wrong.
  396. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 7:38 pm
    @Angilion 6 posts in under 40 min. Are you that desperate to get your point across, or do enjoy trolling? Seriously man, you may have some kind of anti-theist point to get across, but it comes off as pathetic.

    If you had actually read the posts, rather than freaking out because someone can read and type more than a couple of words per minute, you might have noticed that they were replies to different posts with different points.

    It isn`t *that* hard to read and reply to an extremely short post in 5 minutes.
  397. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:34 pm
    how dare angilion respond to people responding to him! that`s so uncalled for!
  398. Profile photo of buscompany
    buscompany Male 18-29
    106 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:36 pm
    @Angillion

    You clearly don`t know as much about the bible as you think. Jesus said on multiple occasions (including right before the verse you quoted) that his mission was not to destroy the law, but fulfill it. If you`re a christian, you most likely (actually, definitely) believe that Jesus was successful. Therefore Christians can (and should) interpret that verse to mean that the law was fulfilled and now all the jots and tittles in the world can pass from the law.
  399. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 8:56 pm
    You clearly don`t know as much about the bible as you think. Jesus said on multiple occasions (including right before the verse you quoted) that his mission was not to destroy the law, but fulfill it. If you`re a christian, you most likely (actually, definitely) believe that Jesus was successful. Therefore Christians can (and should) interpret that verse to mean that the law was fulfilled and now all the jots and tittles in the world can pass from the law.

    While it`s true that some Christians do believe that heaven and earth have already ended and new ones started, it is not something that is clearly true.

    So your interpretation is just one interpretation. A fairly odd one at that - what makes you think heaven and earth were ended and new ones made a couple of thousand years ago? Where`s that information in your bible?

    I know more about your bible than you do, because I don`t just know what I want it to say.
  400. Profile photo of buscompany
    buscompany Male 18-29
    106 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:10 pm
    @Angillion

    When did I say anything about a new heaven and a new earth? All I said was that the first half of the sentence you quoted is Jesus stating that his purpose is to fulfill the law. The actual part of the sentence that you quoted said that nothing about the law is to be changed until it is fulfilled. One of the most basic beliefs of Christianity would be that Jesus was successful. It follows from those three premises that then that the law is now capable of being changed. I`m not just interpreting what I want it to say, I don`t want it to say anything. I`m just pointing out that if you read that verse in it`s entire context, it`s making the opposite point than what you say it is.
  401. Profile photo of DavioMagnifi
    DavioMagnifi Male 13-17
    600 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:18 pm
    He should be sued and fired, its a fudrucking public school, I don`t go around school pissing all over atheists.

    "Faulty logic. Very faulty logic"
    it`s more logical that a divine being created existence than that nothing created something.
  402. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:39 pm
    @Angilion 6 posts in under 40 min. Are you that desperate to get your point across, or do enjoy trolling?
    You made 2 posts in under 5 min. Does it really take you that long to make absolutely no point, or contribution, at all? It did take you a whole 35 minutes less to troll, so congrats on that.
  403. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    When did I say anything about a new heaven and a new earth?

    When you referred to the Christian bible, because it`s in there.

    Matthew 5:18.

    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Note "till heaven and earth pass". It`s an explicitly stated requirement for anything being removed from "the law", i.e. the rules of the old testamant.
  404. Profile photo of buscompany
    buscompany Male 18-29
    106 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:17 pm
    My bad, I forgot that the verse did make reference to heaven and earth, hence why you brought it up. Luke quotes Jesus as saying that it is easier for heaven and earth to pass then for a jot or tittle to be removed before all is fulfilled. Matthew quotes Jesus as saying that while heaven and earth remain, not a jot or tittle is to be changed while the law is unfulfilled, which means that the law could be changed either once heaven and earth have passed, or once the law has been fulfilled. Luke`s quote makes this even clearer.
  405. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:22 pm
    "Are you seriously arguing that Christianity is biological and Christians have no choice but believe provably incorrect things?

    Really? You believe that?

    Even if it was true, it would still be completely different to "race" or sexual orientation.

    You have also failed to recognise two important things:

    i) The teacher didn`t even mention Christianity.
    ii) The teacher didn`t bash any religion.

    You`re talking rubbish."

    @ angilion sorry for late response, but as far as we "know" being gay may be a choice, and the Big Bang is still a theory so to say Christians believe incorrect things already shows that your ignorant and one sided you just have a bigger vocabulary then the other ones. Counter example of the idiocy of points i & ii: Btw someone who shares your ideals are stupid, the amount of time someone like you spends posting is ridiculous, but that`s not bashing you since I didn`t say you directly
  406. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:37 pm
    @ angilion sorry for late response, but as far as we "know" being gay may be a choice

    When did you chose to be gay or not be gay?

    Homosexuality used to carry a death sentence and was totally socially unacceptable. Some people were homosexual anyway - it makes no sense to think they chose it given a free choice.

    the Big Bang is still a theory so to say Christians believe incorrect things already shows that your ignorant and one sided

    You`re arguing that the existence of one theory proves that everything Christians believe is true, including all the things that have no relevance to that theory. That doesn`t make any sense.

    (i) and (ii) aren`t about "not saying you directly". They`re about the fact that creationism and Christianity don`t mean the same thing. You can have either without the other.
  407. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:44 pm
    My bad, I forgot that the verse did make reference to heaven and earth, hence why you brought it up. Luke quotes Jesus as saying that it is easier for heaven and earth to pass then for a jot or tittle to be removed before all is fulfilled. Matthew quotes Jesus as saying that while heaven and earth remain, not a jot or tittle is to be changed while the law is unfulfilled, which means that the law could be changed either once heaven and earth have passed, or once the law has been fulfilled. Luke`s quote makes this even clearer.

    If it said what you think it said, then it would contradict Matthew. But it doesn`t say what you think it says.

    Luke 16:17
    And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

    You added a bit that isn`t there but is crucial to your argument: "before all is fulfilled".

    It`s not in verse 18 - that`s about adultery and seperation in marriage.
  408. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:56 pm
    Matthew quotes Jesus as saying that while heaven and earth remain, not a jot or tittle is to be changed while the law is unfulfilled, which means that the law could be changed either once heaven and earth have passed, or once the law has been fulfilled.

    Requoted because I couldn`t address it in the last post.

    The English translations don`t state one requirement *or* the other, although I see how they could be interpreted that way.

    Which means we`d have to hear the original speech to know what the original speaker meant, which is obviously impossible. We`re looking at interpretations/translations of copies of copies of approved copies of something written much later, maybe by someone who heard what was said decades earlier and maybe by someone else who heard what the second person said about what the first person said decades earlier.

    My main point is that by choosing different verses you can argue either way, but either way you have t
  409. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 10:57 pm
    Grr...cut off at ~980.

    ...either way, you have to ignore some verses.
  410. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:04 pm
    1) I`m not gonna beat the dead horse of why I feel being born gay is BS mainly because either way it shouldn`t matter if your gay your gay congratulations or my condolences it doesn`t effect me so why should I care but I will respond to smart remarks. When did you decide not to have sex with animals or not murder?

    Deleted my post had to add
    *Holocaust some people were killed for their religion Jews were killed as well as witnesses who are christian they were allowed to live if they would simply denounce there god and they chose to stick to their god so by your reasoning were they born christian?*

    No, I was showing that we don`t exactly know when or how this earth came about so to say Christians believe provably incorrect correct things was ignorant. I believe in god but I have no proof so I can`t blame someone to come to a conclusion that there is not a god, neither of know who`s right till the end even then we may still not know, so why knock the other guy?
  411. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:15 pm
    When did you decide not to have sex with animals or not murder?
    Ah, the old "slippery slope" logical fallacy. So you`d lump being a homosexual together with being into f*cking animals, murdering people, and I`m going to presume, being a paedophile. All are perversions, right?

    The difference here is quite clear, it`s consent.

    Animals or children don`t, can not, consent to being raped. People also don`t generally consent to being murdered. Gay people tend to have consensual relationships with each other. That`s very different from bestiality, or murder, or whatever.

    Besides, when did you decide to be heterosexual? At what point did you decide to get turned on by naked women? Could you turn around tomorrow and "decide" to be gay? To get a hard-on from the vision of a buff naked dude sucking your dick? I know I couldn`t...
  412. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:18 pm
    @Angilion
    It just seems to me that for someone who doesn`t *believe* you certainly are passionate about arguing the Bible.

    I am merely suggesting that your dedication to argument is leading you to unwanted stress, and therefore (since the majority of people don`t care), you should pursue more fulfilling endeavors.

    For example, you have derailed this thread into something that has nothing to do with the post. How is that constructive? I did start reading your posts, but as I soon found out they have nothing to do with the actual post - what I came here to discuss and comment on. I didn`t bother looking at other threads, but if this is your primary goal in these forums, you need to give it a rest and do something that is more beneficial to yourself.
  413. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5441 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:19 pm
    @mischeif954

    I have two words for you:

    Godwin`s Law
  414. Profile photo of buscompany
    buscompany Male 18-29
    106 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:26 pm
    You`re right about the Luke passage, I misquoted it by mistake. The Matthew verse is still a straight forward conditional with a disjunctive antecedent. If heaven or earth remains or the law is unfulfilled, then the law cannot be changed. Although, at this point we`re arguing semantics, which is hard to debate when it becomes clear that the exact wording isn`t reliable when you compare different accounts from the different gospels.

    So yes, I agree that the heaven and earth part could go either way. I still think the most obvious interpretation is that Jesus was trying to say that the law remains until he fulfills it, which presumably he did before leaving earth, especially since he had just saw fit to mention that the whole reason he came was to fulfill the law. This does not contradict the other verse about making that which is unclean clean.
  415. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:28 pm
    Your answer for bisexuality? Because apparently some of us can...

    No, I lump being gay with all other behaviors for it to be a product of your environment mixed with your personality to create an extreme behavioral trait, desperately wanting others approval, being superficial there`s a million of em I picked two extremes of the top of my head.

    What does exactly consent have to do with being born with a behavioral trait? That makes absolutely no sense. So are people born to be more likely to overeat but wait no, the food doesn`t consent to being eaten? So its impossible or is it were gonna start picking and choosing what you are and are born with?
  416. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:31 pm
    @ elkingo I`ve never heard of that before when i looked it up it made me lol.
  417. Profile photo of buscompany
    buscompany Male 18-29
    106 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:32 pm
    @davymid

    So if someone has intercourse with animals by allowing the animal to do the mounting so to speak, does that make it ok?

    Just fyi, I`m not arguing against homosexuality or for bestiality, I just wondered if the only distinction you make for bestiality is consensus.
  418. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:54 pm
    Your answer for bisexuality? Because apparently some of us can...
    Again, you assume that bisexuality os a choice. Let me paraphrase my question again, with slightly different wording:

    "Besides, when did you decide to be heterosexual? At what point did you decide to get turned on by naked women? Could you turn around tomorrow and "decide" to be bisexual? To be EQUALLY turned on by the vision of a buff naked dude sucking your dick as a beautiful woman sucking your dick? I know I couldn`t..."

    What does exactly consent have to do with being born with a behavioral trait?
    You lumped homosexuality with bestiality and murder. I simply pointed out that homosexuals being in a consensual loving relationship is very different from people raping a chicken or murdering someone else. The former involves consent, the latter does not.
  419. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:54 pm
    So are people born to be more likely to overeat but wait no, the food doesn`t consent to being eaten?
    OK, this is starting to get a bit silly. A pizza can`t consent to being eaten. It`s a pizza. A better analogy would be, we all like to eat (we all like sex). But I prefer pepperoni pizza and you prefer hawaiian. And that`s fine. I didn`t wake up one day and "make the lifestyle choice" that I like pepperoni and not hawaiian. Nor could I magically change my personal taste tomorrow. I just like pepperoni better. I was born that way. Simple.
  420. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:55 pm
    So if someone has intercourse with animals by allowing the animal to do the mounting so to speak, does that make it ok? Just fyi, I`m not arguing against homosexuality or for bestiality, I just wondered if the only distinction you make for bestiality is consensus.
    No, that would still not be consent. Animals cannot give consent, adult humans can. If someone were to lube up their arsehole and go down on all fours in front of a male dog in heat (do people do that?), that dog would probably mount them. However, it`s a dog, it`ll hump a stuffed animal as its base instinct is to hump something. By doing so, you`re abusing the animal`s base instincts to satisfy your own sexual gratification. That`s still bestiality.

    I don`t have a dog, but if I did, I could smear peanut butter all over my genitals and the dog would come to lick it off. Is that dog consenting to lick peanut butter off my balls? Yes, it`s peanut butter. Is it a disgusting act of bestiality? Yes.
  421. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 6, 2010 at 11:55 pm
    (Sorry for quad post)

    Bestiality is taking advantage of a dumb animal for personal sexual gratification. To equate that, in any way, with being homosexual is wrong in the extreme, and as I mentioned before, a "Slippery Slope" logical fallacy.
  422. Profile photo of buscompany
    buscompany Male 18-29
    106 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 12:06 am
    So does that mean that mentally slow people can`t have sex? Or at least can`t be had sex with?
  423. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 12:16 am
    Meh maybe on pizza night dad always ordering pepperoni may have affected your taste for that style of pizza? Would explain why different regions have different foods with "acquired taste" aka friggin gross. For example my parents are from an island they eat some stuff I thing is disgusting however most of the people on the island like those things. I was born here. Most people born here whose parents are form that same island share my distaste. Born that way or product of our environment? Your call. When did I decide it was gross right away reaffirmed by my American peers maybe if I was in an environment were they said "man you don`t know what you`re missing" I`d be more open and maybe come to like it.
  424. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 12:18 am
    So does that mean that mentally slow people can`t have sex? Or at least can`t be had sex with?
    buscompany, I really don`t understand where you`re going with this line of reasoning. What do you mean "mentally slow people"? Do I think a person with mild Downs Syndrome who functions perfectly well in society should be allowed to have sex? Of course I do, they can give informed consent. Do I think it`s OK to clamber aboard a wheelchair-bound person who`s in a permanent vegetative state? No, of course not.

    I`m simply stating that equating people living in a consensual homosexual relationship to bestiality, murder, paedophilia etc (as mischeif954 did) is a gross, grotesque fallacy. I`m not gay, but if I was, I`d be horrifically offended by that assertion.

    Anyways, this has got wildly off-topic, largely my own fault I freely admit. My apologies, suggest we get off this tangent.
  425. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 12:19 am
    Have you ever not liked something and tried it later and loved it I`m guilty of that, possibly due to changes in your behavior and/or environment. So while the notion that there`s a mutant gene that makes you attracted to the same sex, and wear tights and possibly gives you the ability to shoot lasers beams from your eyes sounds cool, I`ll pass on that one. If only they thought that one up before wait the X-men...
  426. Profile photo of buscompany
    buscompany Male 18-29
    106 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 12:23 am
    I really wasn`t arguing with you, well I was, but I didn`t really disagree with you. I was just asking out of curiosity.
  427. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 12:34 am
    Whoa whoa before you take my quote out of context and run away

    1) You threw in pedos

    2) I have nothing against homosexuals I posted murder and bestiality for a reason being able to murder is an extreme personality trait, bestiality was an extreme sexual personality trait that didn`t include hurting people in the process.

    3) Even if I were to group them as you claim I did I think its still way better than how people are trying group them as born that way.

    It`s not your fault your gay you were born that way? "I`m not gay, but if I was, I`d be horrifically offended by that assertion."

    How about It doesn`t matter if your gay as long as that makes you happy.
  428. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 12:37 am
    It`s not your fault your gay you were born that way? "I`m not gay, but if I was, I`d be horrifically offended by that assertion."

    How about It doesn`t matter if your gay as long as that makes you happy.
    Yeah, what I meant was, "I`m not gay, but if I was, I`d be horrifically offended by your assertion that being gay is somehow similar to f*cking animals or murdering people".

    Anyways, time for bed. Catch y`all later.
  429. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 12:49 am
    Lol, I like that exit how you don`t address the fact how you assert they have some sort of birth defect, but its all good goes hand in hand with the concept why I claimed it to be BS in the first place if you have pick and choose what people are born with then the theory "ain` really logic".

    BTW the reason people usually pick murder and bestiality to argue the point is to encourage you to think about the double edged sword your swinging around not to put a stigma on homosexuality.

    Good night.
  430. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 4:03 am
    You`re arguing that the existence of one theory proves that everything Christians believe is true, including all the things that have no relevance to that theory. That doesn`t make any sense.
    Actually I think he was arguing that "Big Bang theory" means "Big Bang guess". The old "just a theory" line.


    buscompany: You say you believe that Jesus has abolished the old laws, since you believe he fulfilled the law before he left earth, correct? So do you believe he abolished the Ten Commandments? They were old laws too. As was the "homosexuality is an abomination" line.
    If Jesus abolished them all, then homosexuality must be OK, just as wearing clothes made from two materials is OK.

    Do you believe the Ten Commandments still apply?
  431. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 4:13 am
    mischief: I don`t know of any study that has shown that some people are just born with the innate desire to commit murder. If you can find one it would be interesting.

    I see where you`re going with bestiality though. That, and paedophilia, are commonly used "slippery slope arguments" brought up against things like gay marriage. "If we allow gay marriage now, how long before kiddyfiddling or bestiality is OK?" That kind of thing.

    Perhaps you are right - maybe some people`s sexual orientation is bestial or paedophilic just like some people`s is gay or straight or bi or asexual.

    If that is the case, and people are born that way, then I can`t blame them for FEELING the way they do. But I can blame them for ACTING upon it.
    Because the animal or child they are acting upon CANNOT give their consent, and to perform sex acts on an unconsenting living being, AKA rape, is unacceptable in my moral code.
  432. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 5:42 am
    Humans are descended from apes as much as monkeys, and other ancestors. That is what descent is. Stop being a f*cking tool Angillion and read for once. I`m sick of explaining the same damn thing over and over again. It`s not far off to say we evolved from monkeys. It`s just not accurate in terms of a recent ancestor. We come from a primate relative really far back that is like a monkey. Our line has diverged multiple times, and obviously we had to follow SOME line to get here. That is the point I was making. Not that our ancestors (our most recent) is a monkey, or even was an ape, because it wasn`t like any ape I`ve ever seen. It was a hominid. It stood upright, and used tools. Apes can barely sling their own crap with purpose.

    I wasn`t trying to put forth creationist propaganda that we evolved from monkeys, and even if I said we evolved from monkeys and believed it, what does that matter? At least I believe in evolution, albeit incorrectly.
  433. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 5:43 am
    at least that`s better than thinking we all came from a spare rib and some wispy dirt off the fertile crescent.
  434. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 5:50 am
    Not enough trolling up in here.
  435. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 6:02 am
    Just googling the lineage (Sprinkz give it up dude your looking increasingly desperate) and maybe the tangent into bestiality was
    on topic after all
  436. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2279 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 8:19 am
    Desperate? No, increasingly frustrated. I like how your diction is so piss poor. I`ll just resume ignoring you pseudopedantic non-nice individuals.
  437. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 9:08 am
    That whole discussion on gay being a choice really wasn`t needed. The science shows that being gay is not a choice. That is supported by many studies from bran scans to infant startle response. The APA does not list it as an illness or deviation anymore because of the science. No drugs, therapies (sorry Ted Haggard), surgeries, or electro-shocks will change a gay person straight.

    The true evil here are the gay hating religions and the intentionally ignorant who place no value on "fancy edjumakayshun".
  438. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 9:54 am
    @sprinkz : I dropped an apostrophe, big wow. At least I`m smart enough to know the difference between monkey, ape and common ancestor. ;)
  439. Profile photo of buscompany
    buscompany Male 18-29
    106 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 2:01 pm
    @almightybob1
    I never said I believed any of that, just that I believe that Angilion was misinterpreting (or at least not choosing the most likely interpretation of) that particular verse, and so that verse isn`t necesarrily contradictory. To answer your question, if I was a christian my answer would be yes, and I would have no problem with it because I don`t think there`s anything wrong with homosexuality.
  440. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 2:10 pm
    @Nottaspy there`s millions of theories of how being gay is not a choice a lot of them are inconclusive due to either lack of evidence or inconsistencies in recreating test results. I can theorize gay people eat fruits so if you eat fruits your gay and as most gay people eat fruits once in their life time therefore scientifically I`m correct and incorrect. You can see activity in a an area of the brain of an infant and get all sorts of diff activity doesn`t mean that you know the child`s sexual orientation. At the end of the day what it comes down to is that even if 100 different people came and told you stories of sexually experimenting and told you they decided what was there preference after trying both and saying they felt happier one way over the other, even then you still wouldn`t be convinced that being gay is a choice. Me on the other hand if you show me irrefutable proof then I`d believe it till then I call BS.
  441. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 3:50 pm
    Humans are descended from apes as much as monkeys, and other ancestors. That is what descent is. Stop being a f*cking tool Angillion and read for once.

    You don`t even bother reading the various posts from various people pointing out why you`re wrong and now you`re raving at me with your silly claim that I never read anything.

    You`re making a complete fool of yourself. Feel free to continue. I don`t care either way, but I`m sure some people find it amusing.

    What the hell, I`ll explain it again. You`ll ignore it again of course, but I have some spare time.

    You and I are almost certainly distantly related. Go back far enough and we`ll almost certainly have common ancestors.

    That does not mean that you are descended from me.

    Monkeys and humans are distantly related. Go back far enough and there is a common ancestor.

    That does not mean that humans are descended from monkeys.
  442. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 7:42 pm
    "I can theorize gay people eat fruits so if you eat fruits your gay and as most gay people eat fruits once in their life time therefore scientifically I`m correct and incorrect."

    No, no you`re not. That`s nowhere near a scientific theory.
    Please never go into science. Don`t even try.
    A=>B, B=>A, and A<=>B all have their own meanings, A=>B does not mean B=>A. Gays eating fruits does not mean eating fruits makes you gay.

    Sincerely,
    People who make sense.



    @Sprinkz
    Seriosuly? You called Humans NOT Apes when we ARE, HOMONIDS ARE APES.
    The group homonidae includes chimpanzees, orangutans, humans, and gorillas. THOSE ARE THE GREAT APES AKA HOMONIDS.
  443. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 8:01 pm
    "if 100 different people came and told you stories of sexually experimenting and told you they decided what was there preference after trying both and saying they felt happier one way over the other"

    that`s proof it ISN`T a choice, that says they tried both but found their nature preferred one, not they tried both and chose one because they felt it was better for their popularity
  444. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 8:16 pm
    Lol @ I is bored uhmmm that`s from math more specifically discrete math not science please don`t try to correct people.

    Lol If i decide to pick a different food to eat today its not my choice its preordained in my genes GTFOH, I don`t mind sensible arguments but lets stop with the when did you decide you liked women, when do you decide you didn`t like roaches? Now even if you make a choice is not a choice? Really?

    Sincerely,
    Nah, I take that back.
  445. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 8:27 pm
    @mischief
    I can`t believe you can recognize math and not realize that`s the basis for how proper logical statements are put together.

    Do you choose to prefer the taste of chocolate ice cream over vanilla ice cream? No, it`s in your taste buds, now stop using food because saying you LIKE lots of foods and you happen to pick one today is only equivalent to being bisexual and tonight you happen to pick a partner of a particular sex.
  446. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 8:34 pm
    @mischief
    I`ll make the logical statements really easy for you

    All Human females are Humans.
    This does not imply all Humans are Human females.
  447. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 8:58 pm
    Logical statement towards saying people are born gay.
    That`s the thing though your trying to limit my scope to things that are black and white but is gay black and white? You can like manly looking women or feminine men sexual attraction is not black and white, there`s transsexuals, there butches there`s givers there`s takers when did you decide you preferred being the dominant one maybe you switch it up these are all behaviors that are developed through experiment like homosexuality.
  448. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 9:26 pm
    nobody ever said sexuality was black and white
  449. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 9:49 pm
    "now stop using food because saying you LIKE lots of foods and you happen to pick one today is only equivalent to being bisexual and tonight you happen to pick a partner of a particular sex."

    My understanding from this is unless your bisexual, you are gay or straight there was no time before that you just were ignorant to sexual behavior and developed your own behavior according to your environmental factors.
  450. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 10:32 pm
    @mischief
    Do you understand what calling a subject `black and white` means? Saying I`m calling sexuality a black and white subject means I`m saying bisexuality doesn`t exist, which is something I NEVER did.

    No idea what your sentence is trying to say. Obviously if you aren`t bisexual then you are heterosexual, homosexual, or asexual. The only other alternative being attracted to sexless inanimate objects/substances or plants, but even those people typically assign a sex. You are also obviously just ignorant to your sexuality if you are attracted to a sex but are unable to recognize it yourself. No clue what you`re getting at.
  451. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 5:37 am
    Hmmm didn`t think it was hard to understand but ok what the sentence meant is according to you at developmental stages of 0-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-10, 10- puberty before you could even have "sex" or have an urge to have sex. The ages of infancy up until puberty you already knew what sex you were attracted? You seemed to observe my point, but still can`t seem to understand it in a sense yes you there was a point where you had no sexual orientation because you had no sexual attraction. Is there a check box for sexual orientation for a 3 mo olds patient form? Do you suggest that the moment you do find a sexual orientation it was preordained by your genes and not through environmental factors? If you can so eagerly agree by that logic, why is then if I were to ask could a person were to be born on some other spectrum like good or evil, perky or emo, aggressor or pacifist you would immediately dismiss it?
  452. Profile photo of klobuerste
    klobuerste Male 18-29
    7 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 7:04 am
    I like that professor
  453. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 8:30 am
    @mischeif954, you want me to show you irrefutable proof? on the internet? LOL, I`ve been in too many link fights to know better. There are too many think tanks out there manufacturing evidence, falsifying facts, and breeding doubt for me to do that again.

    The real test is if you have an open mind or if you have already decided that being gay is a choice. If you really are interested in the science, then I urge you to do your own research. Google it; find and read the studies. They haven`t figured out how to fake publishing studies without being called out by the rest of the scientific community.

    You`ll see that I am not talking about theories in the colloquial sense. I am talking about real published studies that rely on real math. Yes it is a complicated subject, that is why science uses controls and looks for statistical significance.

    I was not talking out my ass and I`ll assume, based on your post, that you just don`t understand the scientific method.
  454. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 3:13 pm
    @mischeif
    dunno bout you, but i liked boobies long before i thought about having sex
  455. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 3:32 pm
    @ Nottaspy I can look around and yes I know the scientific method and math methods also, also know that people have came up with algorithms using math before you can pick numbers anywhere and say they mean something people say you can find mathematical codes in the bible to fore tell events I`m very open minded the problem is no one comes with intelligent article or even a logical argument.

    i.e.: I`ve always liked boobies seriously? We all did we fed from them.

    And every time you point to the fallacy in the argument of preordained behavior people deflect or digress.

    Close minded is saying even if people who are in fact gay or bisexual told you why and or how they became who they are today you still would say its not a choice. Theres people who were one way and live another way now.
  456. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 5:44 pm
    @mischief
    so when nottaspy says scientific method you hear `bat poo crazy method`? where did you get the idea that he believes "people say you can find mathematical codes in the bible to fore tell events" is true? you seem to be padding your responses with unrelated statements
  457. Profile photo of IndigoIndigo
    IndigoIndigo Male 18-29
    29 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 7:32 pm
    Sounds like a typical college professor. What I can tell from this, including the obvious gap in knowledge of the details on this lawsuit, the court just set a precedent. You can now sue your teacher/professor for being annoying.
  458. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 10:11 pm
    @ I is bored

    NO, he said there some methods backed by math I was pointing out the fact just because math was used in a method doesn`t mean it a correct theory the bible thing I was referring to is that if you picked select verses correlated them with numbers that there is a code to predict events.

    I didn`t not call which ever method he was referring to as wrong because he didn`t even refer to a method he just said there`s methods out there...

    What I mean by substantial evidence and your definition are completely different a good scientific theory involves a theory that is tested and if tested again under the same conditions in a different test group produce the same or similar results the theories thus far for the notion of being born gay thus far are inconsistent and have varying results, but I`ve strayed from the threads topic long enough. We`re not even talking about the same thing anymore sooooo l8r.
  459. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 8, 2010 at 10:36 pm
    Holy Jesus mischeif954, learn 2 punctuate. That last one literally hurt to read.
  460. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 5:21 am
    Wow mischief... You do realize his post was about the significant number of published and repeated tests with results that don`t vary? And THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD refers to A SINGLE method. See how it has a `the` in front?

    And if you really believe the bible contains encoded future events you should also realize that ANY sufficiently large text can be used to do the same.

    Moby Dick contains lots of `predictions` and all of them happened after it was published. That doesn`t make them any more than pure random chance.
  461. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 8:27 am
    @mischeif954, the math part comes in the form of statistical analysis. It is also where they get the margin of error at the bottom of poll results. If a study shows a statistical significant result, that means that it is a real affect or someone screwed with the base data. When someone publishes, that is when other scientists get a chance to make sure everything is above board. If they find something questionable, they can try to repeat the study to see if they get the same result. With careers and reputations on the line, you rarely see people willing to screw with the results.

    What you are saying is that they can pick an algorithm that suits their purpose to make it look like they have a result. That type of crap wouldn`t even get past the committee that determines what gets published. When they submit their finding, they also submit their data.

    mischeif954 must think scientists are a bunch of monkeys playing football in the dark.
  462. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 9:11 am
    I don`t think that NottaSpy what I`m saying is that if anyone of these studies published and released none of them have shown time and time again that a person is born gay and what factor is it that exactly determines it. It`s not a known fact that people are born gay it`s a popular opinion.

    Lol @ Davymid lol nothing more to add then grammar nazi comment.

    @ I-Is-Bored once again you are reading my post and "observing" my point. I don`t believe you can predict with a code in the bible or any other code in a book. I was showing an example of how if you know a wanted and outcome its not "random chance" you can to a point manipulate what your studying to get the desired result.

    So back to NottaSpy since he`s the only talking about the same thing and has sense to use "context clues" and notice I didn`t say "scientific methods" when I said methods I was referring to the methods in the studies he was referring to.
  463. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 10:05 am
    @mischeif954, you are wrong. There are studies that show that you can be born gay.

    They did a study with twins. With identical twins, if one was gay, then there was a 52% chance the other was gay. But with fraternal twins, the rate is only 26%. The difference between identical and fraternal rates shows there is a strong link to either genetic or hormonal influence that produces a gay baby at birth. The study did also show that there was environmental elements, but mainly it shows that there are babies that are born gay, no choice.

    There are also brain scans that show the a gay males brain is wired like a straight female and a gay female is wired like a straight male. I do not see how someone chooses to rewire their brain. It is a good argument against gay being a choice.

    There are also startle response test that show that people acquire their sexual orientation very early in life, maybe even before they are born.
  464. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 10:16 am
    They have found a gene in female fruit flies that when flipped makes them gay.

    They have found that the sexual center of a gay man`s brain are activated by the smell of the male pheromone.

    Studies have shown links to hormone level in utero, and biological advantage through related female fertility, and links to birth order affecting the rate of gay birth.

    Seriously, for you to make that claim that there is no evidence clearly shows an ignorance on the subject. Which begs the question, why did you decide to come here and spout your bullpoo when you clearly have no idea?
  465. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 12:42 pm
    @nottaspy
    To mischief those all have the same credibility as somebody claiming the bible foretells the future. When you talk about studies that follow the scientific method, use proper statistical analysis, and are published in professional journals what he thinks you`re referring to is studies that use a methodology comparable to that used to prove the bible foretells the future. Basically he takes your documented experiments that can be repeated and will yield results within the established control limits every time and says they`re just meaningless claims.
  466. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 3:03 pm
    @ Notta Spy

    1) Without a wink or a chuckle, Odenwald claims that these male fruit flies are gay -- and that he and Zhang made them that way. The scientists say they transplanted a single gene into the flies that caused them to display homosexual behavior. And that`s very interesting, they assert, because a related gene exists in human beings, although there is no evidence yet that the human gene has an effect on sexual preference.

    2)
    The research demonstrates a likely link between brain function and sexual orientation, Savic suggests. But she told New Scientist that the study "does not answer the cause-and-effect question"

    So the brain-activation of gay men by AND may contribute to sexual orientation of those men, or simply be the result of their orientation and sexual behaviour.

    Those the studies you were referring to? You left those parts out, but interesting none the less.
  467. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 4:38 pm
    I don`t know what that is or where it comes from. Had this still been a page one topic I`d Google it to find out, but this is now page 4 and I`m moving on.

    The fruit fly study I was talk about was the cover story of the science journal Cell. The title was Genetic and Neural Control of Drosophila Sexual Behavior. The fruit fly study isn`t too useful since it is fruit flies and not humans, but it does show a pattern of evidence that is quickly becoming undeniable. There are environmental factors after birth that affect orientation, but there is also evidence that some have their orientation set before birth.

    In Nature there are no hard an fast rules. I`d be willing to bet that some people do choose to be gay, but the evidence is mounting that the majority of people do not choose their orientation. There is good evidence that that orientation is set in utero.
  468. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    December 9, 2010 at 7:24 pm
    Fair enough, it`s a study still in progress. That sounds far more reasonable then every person sex being established before they are even conceive we`ll see.
  469. Profile photo of BootneckBaz
    BootneckBaz Male 30-39
    17 posts
    January 25, 2011 at 2:25 pm
    Burn that student! He is a witch!!!!! Buuuurrrrrrn him!
  470. Profile photo of ICantNameMe
    ICantNameMe Male 18-29
    34 posts
    March 23, 2011 at 1:37 am
    ... I`m pretty sure it`s illegal to record a class without prior consent from the teacher and or principal...

    Religion has a VERY big impact on human behavior, which influenced history. Yes, the teacher was inserting his own opinion, but it was used quite well in older times as leverage to control people.

    Also the teacher seems a lot more correct to me -.-

    Possible Resolutions:
    1. Teacher does not rant at all
    2. Teacher gives a disclaimer before he starts his rant.
    3. Student complains about how the teacher is bashing his religion.

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