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Date: 12/18/10 04:38 PM

184 Responses to Senate Votes To Repeal `Don`t Ask, Don`t Tell`

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18847 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 4:40 pm
    Link: Senate Votes To Repeal `Don`t Ask, Don`t Tell` - Finally.
  2. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 4:48 pm
    I agree. It`s about time. We can now move on to other things.
  3. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    I will celebrate the day I no longer have to hear anything about gay marriage and weed. But I am glad that at least one thing is out of the way. Although now I have to go to work on Monday and hear all the ignorant bullpoo from my fellow Marines. For as tough as they are, some of them sure can`t handle something as simple as another persons` sexual preference.
  4. Profile photo of elHadji
    elHadji Male 70 & Over
    1455 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 4:56 pm
    You`re so slow America.
  5. Profile photo of fivezones
    fivezones Male 40-49
    1021 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 4:58 pm
    splurbyburbl: In a recent pentagon study, very few in the military care if someone is gay
  6. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 5:01 pm
    "splurbyburbl: In a recent pentagon study, very few in the military care if someone is gay"

    Oh, I read the same report. Unfortunately those same guys that did this so-called "study" don`t have to listen to all the crap I hear every day for the last 14 years. Don`t get me wrong, the Marines will fall in line with few problems, but it`s the ridiculous tough anti-fag talk that annoys me.

    Marine: "I don`t want no faggot starring at my junk while taking a shower"

    Me: "Get over yourself tool. Nobody wants to stare at your nastiness."

    (Actual conversation)
  7. Profile photo of prettymaryk
    prettymaryk Female 18-29
    74 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 5:06 pm
    America sucks a little less today.
  8. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4682 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 5:14 pm
    Better late than never!
  9. Profile photo of SmilinSam
    SmilinSam Female 18-29
    3599 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 5:24 pm
    @ elHadji... we know that... some of us are fighting to change that... this is a good step forward.
  10. Profile photo of duffytoler
    duffytoler Male 40-49
    5195 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 5:31 pm
    Yeah, yeah - LEGALIZE POT!
  11. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 5:47 pm
    Splurbyburbl:

    It`s pathetic isn`t it. The retarded assumption that if you`re straight every gay man wants you or wants to convert you. How people can honestly believe that is worrying.
  12. Profile photo of Winter_ICE_0
    Winter_ICE_0 Male 13-17
    976 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 5:51 pm
    Wait... this is IAB. And there`s a political post. And people have commented. BUT NOBODY`S ARGUING? Have I gone to the wrong site?
  13. Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 5:58 pm
    Hmm, bittersweet. Sure, people will not get kicked out because of their sexuality, but at the same time lets not hope the friendly fire count goes up. =/ Some people in the military can be quite the homophobes.
  14. Profile photo of DamienLike
    DamienLike Male 13-17
    705 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:00 pm
    @duffytoller
    So much agreeing
  15. Profile photo of SPARTAKITTY
    SPARTAKITTY Female 18-29
    2120 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:09 pm
    Woo!
  16. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:18 pm
    *Blows little rolling New Years type whistle*

    Note to Dem party- see you actually *can* get things done every once in while, MOAR of this please!
  17. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:21 pm
    Finally indeed.

    I hope one day our government actually is "FOR the people" in all aspects of our society.

    And I hope they actually start taking care of the veterans who have served our country.

    Veterans Affairs needs to have a Texas sized boot kick it in the arse.

    *grumble grumble*
  18. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:30 pm
    My god americans are wierd about the homo thing. It`s the most peculiar obsession... top politics, people! Homos! Let`s gather the nations leaders, and vote on homo issues!

    No one shall be discrminated by race, religion or sexual orientation. You`d think that would be enough with that, case closed. Next topic. Move on. But not here. The homos, the homos! What are they up to? I would`nt give a rats ass about other peoples sexual orientation. I mean... why?????

    Are the two of you grown ups? Are you happy? Go with god!
  19. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:33 pm
    Meh...
  20. Profile photo of infantry0
    infantry0 Male 30-39
    164 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:33 pm
    Served 8 years in the army infantry. Did tours in Somalia, Haiti, and Bosnia with the 10th Mtn Division. We had one guy, ONE, married with kids, that acted gay. He insisted he wasn`t. After 3 years sharing a suite tied by a common bathroom, he was arrested for 1st degree sodomy. A fellow soldier got drunk and passed out after his christmas party, and his wife walked in to the bathroom to find Spc. Hernandez fellating him, while he was unconscious. Hernandez was removed from the unit and convicted of 1st degree sodomy and served 6 mos in Levenworth and dishonorably discharged. His roomie awoke to him sneaking into his bed on several occasions after we went out and got drunk. We, as sodiers, have enough bs to worry about without having to add the stress of having to be P.C. with your fag teammate. Just Sayin`.
  21. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:36 pm
    @infantry: nice pic. Suits you.
  22. Profile photo of Kozy
    Kozy Male 18-29
    118 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:47 pm
  23. Profile photo of Schr0dinger
    Schr0dinger Male 50-59
    359 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:52 pm
    I got it on good authority - Gerry1of1- that there will be no special "gay units" and that there will be no "gay uniforms" or other designators. No gay units I agree with, but no gay uniforms? Seriously? That sucks. The government just wants to take all the fun out of everything.
  24. Profile photo of Levyn
    Levyn Male 18-29
    210 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    infantry0, I hope I never meet you. We, as human beings, have enough BS to worry about without having to add the stress of having to be narrow-minded d-bags at your level.
    So, the non-ignorant among us...we won`t.
  25. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 7:03 pm
    We, as sodiers, have enough bs to worry about without having to add the stress of having to be P.C. with your fag teammate.
    Wow. Just.... wow.
  26. Profile photo of spyrocheeks
    spyrocheeks Female 13-17
    112 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 7:12 pm
    So you can`t join the army just because you`re gay?I cannot comprehend this neither can I spell it...
  27. Profile photo of prettymaryk
    prettymaryk Female 18-29
    74 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 7:14 pm
    @Infantry- I don`t want someone like you serving my country anyway.
  28. Profile photo of Kozy
    Kozy Male 18-29
    118 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 7:17 pm
    @spyrocheeks
    So you can`t join the army just because you`re gay
    You can join the army and be gay, even before don`t ask don`t tell was repealed. You just couldn`t tell them that you were gay and they couldn`t ask you about your sexual preference. Now that`s changing.
  29. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 7:19 pm
    Shame on everyone for judging infantry0. He fought against those who would opress you, he fought for your freedom. Well he didn`t fight for your freedom "gays".

    Judging people of a sexual orientation based on the acts of one person isn`t even stereotyping, it`s retarded.
  30. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 7:23 pm
    Anyway would you really class it as "P.C." to show a basic level of decency to someone regardless of their sexuality?
  31. Profile photo of iceblack
    iceblack Male 18-29
    551 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 7:28 pm
    So... Is this supposed to be a move forward?
    It`s like saying that a serial killer now
    only tortures his victims and let them go

    I`m sorry, I expect WAY more from any government
    to be called a "success"
  32. Profile photo of 42467
    42467 Male 18-29
    743 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 8:07 pm
    America just got even crappier. Don`t ask don`t tell was a great policy.
  33. Profile photo of iplaymusic
    iplaymusic Male 18-29
    292 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 8:11 pm
    It`s a dark day for Republicans, and Fox News. =]
  34. Profile photo of fattpill
    fattpill Male 30-39
    255 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 8:15 pm
    All this drama so stupid people can advertise that they are homosexual. whats the point for real? you are there to serve not advertise your sexual preference. even if you are different you still have to be the same.
  35. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 8:47 pm
    Fattpill:

    Really? It`s not that they want to advertise who they are, it`s that they don`t want to have to hide it. Perfectly reasonable. I don`t see straight men having to hide that they`re married, or that they are straight.
  36. Profile photo of kw112
    kw112 Female 13-17
    243 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 8:47 pm
    I`m not exactly sure how this works. Does this mean that the government now has a right to ask potential recruits about their sexual orentation? If so, then mabey this wasn`t such a good move after all. If it means the government still CANT ASK, then this is great. Why should gays have to hide who they are? Its like if I told you that you cant let anyone know that you love Christian Rap Death Metal(sadly, we all know it will exist one day , if not now), because most people dont and it might weird others out when you listen to your music.
  37. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 8:50 pm
    Fatpill, is it "advertising" when a straight couple can openly date in the army, or when a husband can openly write back to a wife for Xmas (or vice versa) *and* there is no threat of that couple being discharged? No threat of losing their jobs?

    Do you consider valuable your ability to go about your business in or out of the workplace freely with no one spying on you conspiring to get you fired for whom you love?

    On a basic logistical level, do you understand the myriad talented personnel and vast amounts of money lost to a ridiculous Victorian standard/ bizarre witch hunt in the first place?

    Don`t think too hard now, I wouldn`t want to cause you any brain damage.

  38. Profile photo of Schr0dinger
    Schr0dinger Male 50-59
    359 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 9:20 pm
    "Does this mean that the government now has a right to ask potential recruits about their sexual orentation?"

    Yes

    "...mabey this wasn`t such a good move after all."

    We shall see. But at the pace things are getting done in DC I think this should have been overridden with a "We dont care" policy rather than a repeal.

  39. Profile photo of mervviscious
    mervviscious Male 40-49
    1793 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 9:27 pm
    At last... People are a little more free..... Yeah..
  40. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 9:38 pm
    Makes a lot of sense to make 60% of military personnel, who appose openly gay people in the military, feel uncomfortable.

    Lets do it guys!

    Statistics
  41. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 9:42 pm
    @Reganom: You act as if being homosexual is normal. Fortunately you are wrong, otherwise we would have a much more difficult time populating the earth.

    The reason people don`t want openly gay people in the military is because it may make other soldiers (60% compared to %30 who don`t care) feel uncomfortable. Great thing to do in a job that is a matter of life and death.

    Just look at infantry0`s story.
  42. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 9:47 pm
    "The reason people don`t want openly gay people in the military is because it may make other soldiers (60% compared to %30 who don`t care) feel uncomfortable."

    That same argument was used against desegregating the military - that white people just didn`t like blacks.

    THAT WAS WHITE PEOPLE`S PROBLEM, NOT BLACKS.....


    Anyways.......here is change we can believe in.
  43. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 9:49 pm
    Uh znaught, I`m not sure which planet you live on, but this current (real) study has 70% in favor and 30% opposed. Not that it should really matter anyway, back in the `40s no one wanted to serve with blacks and even less wanted to serve with Jews.

    Your petty prejudices about gays and lesbians, (and your stunning ignorance wowee) notwithstanding, "icky" is not valid reasoning.
  44. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 9:51 pm
    ZNaught - way to selectively cite old stories, ignoring the Pentagon Study of this year.

    "More than 70 percent of respondents to a survey sent to active-duty and reserve troops over the summer said the effect of repealing the ‘don`t ask, don`t tell’ policy would be positive, mixed or nonexistent"

    70 PERCENT OF THE MILITARY DOESN`T GIVE A F*CK. And I could give two s*its about making homophobes "uncomfortable."

    Link
  45. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:00 pm
    infantry0 - Male soldiers rape women soldiers all the time. Are you ok with that?

    I mean, women soldiers have to fear being raped too. Your story is about rape, but it seems to bother you more because gay rape is somehow less acceptable?

    By your draconian logic, men and women shouldn`t serve together, because women may get raped. I mean, you seem to be saying that you are afraid a gay guy will rape you. What about the exact same fear women have about men? Are you saying gay men are more likely to commit rape?

    Isn`t the better answer that rape is wrong, regardless of the perpetrator and regardless of the victim? In your story, the fact that he was gay was incidental to the fact that he was a rapist.

    He could have raped a woman and recieved the same punishment.

    Your argument fails because it wasn`t being gay that was the problem - it was that that guy was a rapist.
  46. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4017 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:05 pm
    Anyways, the Republican party is the bastion of the homophobe, but the walls they are a crumblin` down.
  47. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:13 pm
    @ infantry0 - I had a good fap fap fap to your story, it was hot! But I have a question... Why was his wife there in Somalia and Hatie with you? And since when to wives stay in the quarters with y`all?

    Military sure has changed since I was in. We just fncked in the showers back then.
  48. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:26 pm
    ...and it happens AFTER the dems lose majority. Hmmmmmmmm.
  49. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:28 pm
    Aj, Dems still have the majority until Jan 5.
  50. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:29 pm
    "We, as sodiers, have enough bs to worry about without having to add the stress of having to be P.C. with your fag teammate. Just Sayin`."

    Hey... asshat... I have been the same places as you; dodged the same bullets with the same guys for 14+ years now. And I, much like yourself, am afforded the cushy lifestyle to kick bakc and post on IAB at leisure. Are you seriosuly going to base all your "bullet-proof logic" based on one example that you had to deal with personally? If so, I have news for you... that cat that raped that dude... that poo happens often, and it`s not becuase they`re gay. It`s because they are mentally drating disturbed with sexual perversions. The fact that you can`t use that little thing called logic and see through this truism is indicative of the boneheaded culture of which you prescribe. Go read a drating book.
  51. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:30 pm
    To be more specific, they will retain the majority in the Senate and lose it in the House, but eh, trivialities amirite?
  52. Profile photo of Kozy
    Kozy Male 18-29
    118 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:34 pm

  53. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:35 pm
    @ infantry0:

    Furthermore: I am literally about at my wits-drating-end with all this bullpoo with my fellow service men and women not being able to see outside that proverbial box. It is embarrassing to be part of one of the most powerful militaries, yet feel surrounded by imbiciles constantly. Your boot camp not only trained you, but they also indoctrinated you much like they did me. We needed it, we were young and needed direction, discipline and a sense of purpose. However, if after a few years you are unable to think and reason for yourself... outside that box of indoctrination the Army gave you, then you are a sad sack. drating grow a pair and start picking apart the propaganda that surrounds you. You can be a good service member and yet still question the authority you have sworn to protect.
  54. Profile photo of Agent00Smith
    Agent00Smith Male 18-29
    2581 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:37 pm
    Hooooray gaaays!
  55. Profile photo of keetraver
    keetraver Male 18-29
    34 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:40 pm
    Hi Znaught, I looked at your statistics link and noticed something funny. Only 10% of respondents were women. 9.7% say they have been sexually harasment. Does this mean in the current straight army every woman is getting harassed? Is this acceptable or do you think women should not be allowed to `serve their country` in order to circumvent this problem. Also could you send me some pics of yourself in (partial) uniform?
  56. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:50 pm
    Everyone bringing up women in the army have a good point, after all they let women serve alongside men on submarines, SUBMARINES, and they didn`t even need to issue a study about that issue at all.

    *Goes into best Bender from The Breakfast Club impression* "If we let women on subs, it`ll be anarchy!!"
  57. Profile photo of keetraver
    keetraver Male 18-29
    34 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 10:54 pm
    harassed, it`s eight o clock on a sunday mornig in my country and I`m getting ready for bed. This seems to affect my grammar.
  58. Profile photo of pooki3
    pooki3 Female 18-29
    26 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 11:10 pm
    @ keetraver

    actually you should see the rates of reported sexual harassment in the military. almost every woman reports it once in 5 years service. I`m in the navy and its a constant thing
  59. Profile photo of Concetra
    Concetra Male 18-29
    2050 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 11:11 pm
    This is just purely awesome. I nearly threw my remote at my tv when I saw the results. Just awesome :D.
  60. Profile photo of keetraver
    keetraver Male 18-29
    34 posts
    December 18, 2010 at 11:13 pm
    @pookl3
    This does strike me as a bigger problem than someone lamenting he misses his boyfriend.
  61. Profile photo of Lapin
    Lapin Male 13-17
    48 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 12:07 am
    About damn time!
  62. Profile photo of securitywyrm
    securitywyrm Male 18-29
    89 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 1:03 am
    A frequently raised objection is the barracks situation. If you have sixty male soldiers sharing one shower area, and you allow homosexuals to serve openly, should we also have the men shower with the women? Or perhaps we should have the gay men shower with the women and the gay women shower with the men. It is an issue that no number of Equal Opportunity Power Point slides will get rid of. In the military you frequently share very close quarters, and sexual tensions can run high. Males and females sleep in separate areas for a reason, and open homosexuality makes the barracks a no-win situation for the person in charge.
  63. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 1:04 am
    America sucks a little less today.

    Or maybe a little more?



    Anywho it`s about fu<king time!
  64. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 1:06 am
    @securitywyrm

    But gays have been sleeping in the same barracks for THE WHOLE DAMN TIME!!! and you`re saying that now being open about it is going to create problems?
  65. Profile photo of securitywyrm
    securitywyrm Male 18-29
    89 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 1:08 am
    Let me put it in a different way
    To be openly homosexual is a "Civil right"
    To be openly homosexual is a "Human right"
    When you join the military you give up
    1. Your civil rights
    2. Your human rights
    In order to defend the civil and human rights of the rest of your country. If you`re a soldier, you don`t have freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, even freedom of religion (you can believe what you want, but what you practice may be limited). You can be compelled to testify against yourself, you have no protection against unreasonable search and seizure, you are less than human in the eyes of the law.

    "Those who consider themselves civilized sleep soundly at night, for rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

    Source: 4 years in the Army
  66. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 1:40 am
    While I agree with the repeal, I disagree with the timing. We are still embroiled with an ultra-conservative Muslim enemy in Afghanistan and they will likely use it as a propaganda tool as proof that America is sick and decadent and gain more recruits. When it comes to homosexuality the Middle East isn`t exactly open-minded. Furthermore I agree that the stepped aproach is best. Let them serve in a technical capacity first because the ability to manage complex war-systems is to valuable to get rid of qualified individuals, but hold off on deploying them in combat. Having just another gun is outweighed by the morale of the unit in a combat situation. Let the more macho services get used to the idea before forcing this on them, otherwise you`ll have big problems.
  67. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 1:40 am
    Also, you are deluding yourself if you don`t think there will be a backlash. There were racial riots in the military into the 70`s and women have been consistently targeted for harassment since they joined (Tailhook, anyone?). Before, violence against gays was sporadic, happening on an individual basis. Now it`s likely to become systematized, if unofficial. That said, it`s high time the culture of the military changed to reflect the reality of the country it is charged defending and to maximize its effectiveness by taking advantage of all the personnel at its disposal instead of firing highly trained and useful people over something so stupid. It`s going to be a rocky road, but a necessary one.
  68. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 1:52 am
    securitywyrm: "Males and females sleep in separate areas for a reason, and open homosexuality makes the barracks a no-win situation."
    Hey, at least now you`ll know that the fudge-packer in the next bunk is a fudge-packer. Before, you couldn`t tell. And neither could he. Seems like a win-win to me.

    Znaught: "You act as if being homosexual is normal. Fortunately you are wrong, otherwise we would have a much more difficult time populating the earth."
    Ah yes, the underlying problem with the planet right now is that we just don`t have enough people on it. 7 Billion ain`t enough, let`s make more!
  69. Profile photo of SwayzeCrazy4
    SwayzeCrazy4 Male 13-17
    234 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:08 am
    <long-winded speech about how I`m right and everybody else is wrong>
  70. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:15 am
    Having just another gun is outweighed by the morale of the unit in a combat situation. Let the more macho services get used to the idea before forcing this on them, otherwise you`ll have big problems.
    Soldiers take orders. They don`t "take time to get used to things". If being told to serve alongside a man you know is gay is more mentally traumatizing than to be told to walk down that street where every door and window is a potential enemy gun aimed at your head, something is seriously wrong with you.

    Besides, according to the freakin` pointless study the Republicans demanded, the vast majority of troops have absolutely no issue with serving alongside openly gay soldiers. If you have a 10 man unit, 8 are fine with the gay guy, and 1 isn`t... the gay guy isn`t the problem with the unit.
  71. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:42 am
    I have a feeling if I were to compile the pest points for/against this from this post, this is what I would come up with:

    Against: Lots of reasons why this isn`t so great right now.

    For: IT`S RAINING MEN! (and women to a lesser degree)

    _____________________________________

    DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED ON PRIVATE SANTIAGO?!
  72. Profile photo of phoneybone
    phoneybone Male 18-29
    1744 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 4:08 am
    i`m just glad i don`t have to hear this retarded argument anymore
  73. Profile photo of rammo34
    rammo34 Male 18-29
    1083 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 4:40 am
    Bout time. Time to move on.
  74. Profile photo of sidewyz8
    sidewyz8 Female 18-29
    843 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 5:27 am
    I`m glad the gay community can serve, but I`m afraid what might happen to them when the gay-bashers serving with them find out. Guess we`ll see...
  75. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 5:50 am
    @securitywyrm:

    You have absolutely zero idea of what you are talking about and it shows. And by the way, your "source" is not credible, not even a little bit.
    We service members don`t "give up" our Civil Rights and MOST ESPECIALLY our human rights. To think so is ridiculous. Our rights are just a little different than others but for the most part they are very similar. Plus, for the most part, service men and women belong to a strict organization with intense checks and balances (compared with civilians) that tend to help keep those that overstep bounds in check.

    Yeah, there will be problems. But they will be isolated and people able to use a litle logic and reason who are higher in rank (like myself) will innevitably drop the drating hammer on morons who want to cause drama. I am looking forward to it.
  76. Profile photo of sawdusty
    sawdusty Male 40-49
    491 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 6:08 am
    Put all the gay soldiers in the same platoon/ company. Problem solved and things will be fabulous.
  77. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 6:17 am
    drat the stupidity that they actually needed to unband this!
  78. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 6:46 am
    If being told to serve alongside a man you know is gay is more mentally traumatizing than to be told to walk down that street where every door and window is a potential enemy gun aimed at your head, something is seriously wrong with you.

    Good point.

    Experience elsewhere suggests that there will be some opposition amongst soldiers until a little while after the ban is lifted, when those who previously objected because they thought it would cause a lot of problems realise it didn`t make any difference at all.

    Soldiers are of necessity practical people, who must make judgements based on what is real and relevant. A report that the enemy have abandoned a position won`t stop you getting shot if they haven`t. A map showing a bridge over a river doesn`t mean jack if the bridge has been ruined. What matters with fellow soldiers is whether they`re up to the job and whether you can rely on them when the poo hits the fan. Not who they screw.
  79. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 6:51 am
    Let me put it in a different way
    To be openly homosexual is a "Civil right"
    To be openly homosexual is a "Human right"
    When you join the military you give up
    1. Your civil rights
    2. Your human rights
    In order to defend the civil and human rights of the rest of your country. If you`re a soldier, you don`t have freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, even freedom of religion (you can believe what you want, but what you practice may be limited). You can be compelled to testify against yourself, you have no protection against unreasonable search and seizure, you are less than human in the eyes of the law.

    That`s only partially true. You lose *some* of your rights.

    But let`s put it another way:

    Ignore rights completely. Does keeping out ~10% of potential soldiers strengthen the military? I argue that it weakens the military.
  80. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 6:55 am
    Also, you are deluding yourself if you don`t think there will be a backlash. There were racial riots in the military into the 70`s and women have been consistently targeted for harassment since they joined (Tailhook, anyone?). Before, violence against gays was sporadic, happening on an individual basis. Now it`s likely to become systematized, if unofficial.

    It didn`t happen elsewhere. If the USA military is as disciplined as it should be, it shouldn`t happen in the USA either.
  81. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 7:01 am
    A frequently raised objection is the barracks situation. If you have sixty male soldiers sharing one shower area, and you allow homosexuals to serve openly, should we also have the men shower with the women?

    Yes, we should. No segregation.

    However, in practice that wouldn`t work at the moment.

    Homosexuals and heterosexuals sharing barracks and showers does work at the moment. It`s already worked for millenia.

    Last week Bob was gay and you shared a barrack and shower with him but didn`t have sex with him.

    This week Bob is gay and you share a barrack and shower with him but don`t have sex with him.

    Where`s the difference? Seriously, where`s the difference?

    You`re worried he`s going to look at you? That would be a problem if you were a fragile Victorian lady who might have an attack of the vapours if a man looks at her.

    You`re worried he`s going to make a pass at you? You can say "No thanks, B
  82. Profile photo of HalfSandwich
    HalfSandwich Male 18-29
    145 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 7:35 am
    @Angilion:
    If I got to shower with females in the military, I would join today, even if I didn`t get to have sex with them.

    That being said, I hope the president shows the same respect and professionalism to the generals that they show to him going forward in this matter. It`s not something that can or should be implemented overnight and will need time to make adjustments.

    Besides I am for this, if someone is tough enough to take it in the butt they are clearly tough enough to serve in the military.
  83. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 7:42 am
    Angilion, just incidentally, in your mind should we scrap Patriotism all together? I mean after all if difference inherently causes discrimination and hatred, and groups that celebrate their own are inherently evil, then Patriotism is an inherent evil being as there is essentially no salient difference between Patriotism and Nationalism in your mind.

    Likewise, we should just stop loving our own children, because loving our own children inherently means hating everyone else`s children, It`s just unavoidable right?

    I bring this up not to be a jerk, but merely to point out some flaws with this stance.
  84. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 7:49 am
    Angilion, just incidentally, in your mind should we scrap Patriotism all together?

    It wouldn`t be a bad idea. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

    I mean after all if difference inherently causes discrimination and hatred

    It doesn`t, obviously. Only when people consider differences to be defining and assign them an importance far beyond their actual relevance.

    and groups that celebrate their own are inherently evil

    Also not true. Inherently prejudiced and discriminatory, but not inherently evil.

    Likewise, we should just stop loving our own children, because loving our own children inherently means hating everyone else`s children, It`s just unavoidable right?

    Wrong. It does mean placing your own children above other people`s children, though.
  85. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 7:49 am
    I bring this up not to be a jerk, but merely to point out some flaws with this stance.

    Then why are you adopting that stance?
  86. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 7:53 am
    It`s a reflection of your thought process.

    Besides, I saw a great treatment of this in a philosophy course I really loved, it combined HP with these questions and offered a way in which one may be Patriotic, and in their words, "not join the Dark Lord in the process."
  87. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 7:55 am

  88. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 7:59 am

  89. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 8:24 am
    The homos, the homos!

    Student_Law, that cracked me up... too bad it`s so true.
  90. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 8:46 am
    Angilion

    someday show me how you do italics here.
    I wish they had simple buttons for editing text.

    okay, back to the flame wars now
  91. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:05 am
    It`s about goddamn time.
  92. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:30 am
    Heck if Santa is accepting why not the military?

    click here for the video
  93. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:42 am
    Gerry1of1:

    He`s quoting

    text no spaces.
  94. Profile photo of Gentle-Tramp
    Gentle-Tramp Male 13-17
    498 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:42 am
    yay
  95. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:53 am
    "If you have sixty male soldiers sharing one shower area, and you allow homosexuals to serve openly, should we also have the men shower with the women?"

    Short answer: yes.

    Long answer: with a modern, highly-trained, skilled volunteer military, rather than a low-trained conscript army, you can and should expect high standards of self-control, which can and should include being able to see a naked body without being instantly and helplessly compelled to have sex with it.
  96. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:53 am
    oh

    thanks
  97. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:00 am
    @Student_Law

    "My god americans are wierd about the homo thing."

    I know!

    You meet and talk to individual Americans, and they seem no different to anyone else, with all the usual variations from extreme to extreme.

    Yet the country as a whole...looking westward across the Atlantic towards the United States is often like looking backwards in time by about 50 years.
  98. Profile photo of ElMustache
    ElMustache Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:09 am
    =) You don`t need to be straight to shoot straight.
  99. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:10 am
    @goaliejerry: I don`t really trust studies by of all people, the government. I would rather go with a 3rd party. Besides, 3 years is far from old.

    @QueenZira: Not wanting marriage for homosexuals nor wanting them to be openly serving as such in the military is not prejudice.

    @goaliejerry: Men tend to serve in the same units as other men. Women are the same. So I would think it to be much more likely for this to be an issue when they are surrounded by people that fit in with their sexual preference.
  100. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:14 am
    @keetraver: So I must be a member of the armed forces to have an opinion on this?

    I would personally say that women should not be serving in the same units for the most part as men. Nor should they serve on the front line at all.

    You may call it sexism, I call it chivalry.
  101. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:20 am
    Musuko- and just think, 50 yrs ago all we could talk about was the blacks and ending segregation and acquiring justice for all like our cherished national Ideals keep challenging us to do! Wow, we yanks sure do have some strange hobbies eh?
  102. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:21 am
    @Angilion: Homosexuals making up one out of every 10 recruits? I find this complete BS. If anything it does not affect the military at all if they were to be prevented from joining as you state. We are moving to a civilianization or occupational form of the military anyway where military contractors are essentially replacing much of our military.

    @Musuko42: Looking across the pond I only see socialism and countries who cannot even sustain themselves because of their cohabitation practices. Marriage is rare in Europe and as such so is having children. Have fun being taken over by the "peaceful" Muslims. I mean, if you are into that kind of thing.
  103. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:23 am
    Znaught- calling a "donut," instead a "tasty sugary pastry," still will not eliminate the fact that it is, in fact a Donut.
  104. Profile photo of polglowa
    polglowa Male 30-39
    43 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:23 am
    Do you people not realize that gays are already serving and have been serving in the military? The military has it`s own set of laws and rules and the civilian courts should not be dictating what goes on.
    When you sign on, you voluntarily give up certain freedoms.
    Bad idea all the way around!
  105. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:25 am
    Wow znaught, you know nothing about the world outside your own front door! Ye Gawds!
  106. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:26 am
    @QueenZira: Could you please tell me what precisely you are addressing? If not, I am afraid I cannot respond and your point is worth nothing.
  107. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:27 am
    Polglowa, In the states the highest commander of our army is a civilian, the President. For the rest of your concerns please see any one of the excellent posts by Spulrbyburbyl.
  108. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:30 am
    Znaught, defending discriminatory practices in spite of no good reasons to support them, is Prejudice. Point Blank.
  109. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:33 am
    @QueenZira: I provided reasoning. Obviously you haven`t read all of my posts.
  110. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:34 am
    Your "reasoning" is not attached to Reality.
  111. Profile photo of ZNaught
    ZNaught Male 13-17
    351 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:42 am
    @QueenZira: At least I am backing up my claims with reason. You are currently just criticizing me without citing what exactly I said that was wrong and how it was wrong. If you cannot do this, well.... it is just a waste of time for me event o respond to you.
  112. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 11:02 am
    "Marriage is rare in Europe and as such so is having children"

    Sorry, maybe i didn`t understand that because you pulled it out of your arse. Did you mean to say that marriage creates children? Damn i always thought it was good old fashioned fncking.
  113. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 11:13 am
    @ZNaught
    I thought the same about females on the front line a long time ago. The truth is, they are effective and needed with the proper training. Look up the Marine Lioness Program. I know some of these chicks, and they are just as hardcore as the guys.

  114. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 11:54 am
    It`s a reflection of your thought process.

    Apart from the fact that it isn`t.
  115. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 11:56 am
    Angilion

    someday show me how you do italics here.

    quote tag, so text to be in italics

    Without the spaces, of course.

    `italics` would make more sense than `quote`, but we`re stuck with what we`ve got when it comes to IAB.
  116. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 11:59 am
    @Angilion: Homosexuals making up one out of every 10 recruits?

    No, about 1 in 10 of the population in general. Either homo or bi enough for the same things to apply.

    So 1 in 10 of *potential* recruits. That`s a lot to be excluding for no apparent reason.
  117. Profile photo of BrimstoneOne
    BrimstoneOne Male 30-39
    2229 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 12:02 pm
    It`s about time The United States joined the rest of the major world powers on this issue, now only if they would re-join the major world powers of the ban on torture.
  118. Profile photo of furryblob
    furryblob Male 18-29
    574 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 12:15 pm
    Repeal it.
  119. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 12:38 pm
    ...looking westward across the Atlantic towards the United States is often like looking backwards in time by about 50 years.
    Piss off, look East then.

    It`s about time The United States joined the rest of the major world powers on this issue, now only if they would re-join the major world powers of the ban on torture.
    ...and you too.
    There is no need to be insulting.
  120. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 12:56 pm
    There is no need to be insulting.
    Actually, there is. And I say this as someone who lives in the United States: It is flat out shameful it has taken the US so long to catch up with the rest of the first world on this issue. It`s also shameful that we have yet to catch up with them on other issues.

    The US used to be a world leader not only due to its unmatched military might, but because it was a progressive force of betterment in the world. Now, the US is the mentally-challenged cousin of other first world countries. Always a step behind and prone to violent fits that drag our allies down with us.
  121. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:02 pm
    Rest of the world powers? What other world powers are there? China? Oh wait, they`re very fond of torture. Please don`t for a second think that there are any "world powers" in Europe. Even their "union" is failing miserably :)
  122. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:06 pm
    Thank goodness I got out when I did. I think it would be weird as hell having to get undressed and shower in front of someone or multiple someones who were openly gay. I`m not sure why they thought this was a good idea. I haven`t talked to one single soldier that supports this, and any of the officers in washington that support it do so for political reasons.
  123. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:15 pm
    Yaezakura: which part of europe are you referring to that doesn`t have it`s own problems with violence and isn`t dragging the rest of the world down with it`s pooty economy/ european union? Where do so many Americans get the idea that europe is some utopia where everyone and everything is accepted and everyone is living happily and prospering? Probably that fat drat Michael Moore, huh? Seriously, watch or read some news other than Fox/MSNBC some time... there`s not many countries in europe that are doin so hot these days
  124. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:26 pm
    ...and by the way, what kind of moron president changes military policy like DADT right in the middle of a war we aren`t winning? Hey, I know you guys probably need better arms, armor, intel, and strategy, so here`s what we`re gonna do for ya.... gay dudes are allowed to be openly gay! I know, i know, you`re welcome!
  125. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:29 pm
    Eric, wow you must feel threatened every time you enter a public urinal then huh? With that many unidentified dongs hanging about, why you must curl into the fetal position every day.

    Seriously, grow up.
  126. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:51 pm
    QueenZira, you`re pretty pro at ad-hominem attacks huh? There`s a pretty big difference between using a public restroom and taking group showers with openly gay men, don`t you think? I`ll spell it out further for you if you`re still not getting it ;)
  127. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:51 pm
    @QueenZira

    "Musuko- and just think, 50 yrs ago all we could talk about was the blacks and ending segregation and acquiring justice for all like our cherished national Ideals keep challenging us to do! Wow, we yanks sure do have some strange hobbies eh?"

    And it took you long enough to do it.

    You`re speaking to someone from a country that never had segregation in the first place. So you`re not onto a winner if you`re going to try and preach about how forward-thinking your country was.
  128. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:57 pm
    @ZNaught.

    "

    "@Musuko42: Looking across the pond I only see socialism and countries who cannot even sustain themselves because of their cohabitation practices."

    The aging population has nothing to do with marriage. It has everything to do with longer lifespans and fewer births.

    In case you haven`t noticed, but marriage is not the same thing as childbirth.

    And American marriage rates have plummetted just the same as ours.

    "Have fun being taken over by the "peaceful" Muslims."

    Ah, the happy racist.

    Britain was once under attack by radical Irish extremists (the IRA). Would you expect us to call all Irish people violent because of it?

    The actions of one tiny group of nutjobs do not define all the others of that group, something that most Americans will be grateful of when threatened with the notion that they might be judged by the comments made by people such as yourself.
  129. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 2:59 pm
    I raised a good point, you do very personal things every day of your life with other dudes and there is a good chance that at more than one of those times you were in the same vicinity with a gay guy.

    Musuko- We yanks are a roughem and toughem, loud and divisive bunch that isn`t afraid to debate a policy Battle Royale, it`s what we do, It`s how we work. Oh and you don`t get any points for not having ever had segregation either, after all first you have to have black people to begin with.
  130. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:01 pm
    @tridirk

    "Piss off, look East then."

    East contains cultures that don`t compare neatly to my own.

    West contains America: Britain of 50 years ago.

    And how is it insulting to remind you of the abject shame that your country regularly and unabashedly engages in torture?
  131. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:03 pm
    Musuko- If I remember correctly, some European countries were all too happy to help by ferrying away "enemy combatants" to secret black sites for us. But then we digress...
  132. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:04 pm
    @QueenZira

    "Musuko- We yanks are a roughem and toughem, loud and divisive bunch that isn`t afraid to debate a policy Battle Royale, it`s what we do, It`s how we work. Oh and you don`t get any points for not having ever had segregation either, after all first you have to have black people to begin with."

    What, you think Britain is all white?

    Don`t let the whitewashed Harry Potter films fool you.

    Though I will concede a fair point that we never had as large a black population as you did...but are you really defending segregation with the excuse of "well, there were just so many of them"?
  133. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:06 pm
    @QueenZera.

    "Musuko- If I remember correctly, some European countries were all too happy to help by ferrying away "enemy combatants" to secret black sites for us. But then we digress..."

    I don`t claim that my country (UK btw) is innocent in the scandal. And we`re not being biblical here; I can still point out the mote in your eye while there`s one in mine.
  134. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:08 pm
    I`m not defending segregation. Period.

    Although I agree, you Brits are probably the whitest people on earth. Bad teeth and pasty faced is what first comes to mind. Every once in a while though you come up with a couple cute ones, I`m thinking of a young Michael Caine here. *Drool*
  135. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:10 pm
    @EricWRN

    "Even their "union" is failing miserably :)"

    If by "failing miserably" you mean "maintaining peace across many diverse and historically warring countries, establishing a continent-wide currency that now has a greater circulated value than the US dollar, and contains member states that are successfully helping eachother weather the economic storm (that started with YOUR housing market, btw...thanks for that)", then yes, the European Union is failing pretty badly.
  136. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:18 pm
    @QueenZira.

    "Although I agree, you Brits are probably the whitest people on earth."

    We`re actually one of the LEAST white communities in the English-speaking world. The UK has an extensive history of multiculturalism. There are regional variations, of course (London and Cornwall are going to be very different, for example), and problems along the way. But it`s generally been a resounding success (despite what reactionist extremists like the EDL or BNP might scream).

    "Bad teeth and pasty faced is what first comes to mind."

    Ah the teeth thing. Pure white and straight teeth aren`t natural, and are generally thought as a bit creepy and overdone over here.

    "Every once in a while though you come up with a couple cute ones, I`m thinking of a young Michael Caine here. *Drool*"

    Not my first choice, given a time machine, but I doubt I`d turn him down if he had the machine and stepped out of it today. :P
  137. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:22 pm
    Now see, that`s what I like about gay guys. We have a good rapport because we already have so much in common. ;D
  138. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:24 pm
    @EricWRN

    "I think it would be weird as hell having to get undressed and shower in front of someone or multiple someones who were openly gay."

    Get over yourself. I`m sure they`d not be the least bit interested in you.

    At least if you`re right, however, it bodes well for us if we ever go to war with America; by what you`re claiming, your military is full of precious flowers who get all scared if someone looks at their winkle and likes it. Bless!

    We`d just send Julian Clary with a megaphone to our front line and watch as all your soldiers run away squealing in fear that he might comment on their "nice buns"!
  139. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:31 pm
    @EricWRN: When did I ever explicitly reference Europe? I said "first world", which includes far more than the US and Europe. Hell, not even all of Europe qualifies. Nowhere on earth is some Utopian society without its share of problems. That doesn`t mean we shouldn`t constantly strive for improvement.

    And the kind of president who challenges military policy in the middle of war is the kind of president who thinks doing what is right outweighs all other considerations. The United States just got a little bit freer today, and any soldier worth the title should think that an amazing thing. The US is one step closer to actually being a country worth fighting for.
  140. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:37 pm
    Last week Bob was gay and you shared a barrack and shower with him but didn`t have sex with him.

    This week Bob is gay and you share a barrack and shower with him but don`t have sex with him.
    I would just like to clarify, I have never showered with securitywyrm.
    We totally boned though.
  141. Profile photo of Victim
    Victim Male 70 & Over
    219 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:50 pm
    @europe

    umad?
  142. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10732 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 3:54 pm
    @Gerry1of1

    Type this "quote" insert quote here "/quote" and replaced the quotes with brackets [].
  143. Profile photo of ruthless1990
    ruthless1990 Female 18-29
    3001 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 5:17 pm
    woah guys! where did this Britain vs America fight stend from? I think as countries were both doing okay...
  144. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 6:30 pm



    Hmmm... interesting.
  145. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 6:31 pm
    This is also relevant

  146. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:20 pm
    I hereby petition Mod almighty to smite these spammers with their most righteous iron banhammers. Amen.
  147. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:27 pm
    And a grateful community thanks you!
  148. Profile photo of alk3v
    alk3v Male 18-29
    340 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 9:38 pm
    About time. Now the LGBT community can`t accuse Obama of `leaving them behind` any more.
  149. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 10:52 pm
    The argument of "X was gay last week and you showered with him and slept in the same barracks" is moot.

    Now he has the ability to make advances with no recourse.

    Lots of late night soap-in-a-sock beatings will soon commence.
  150. Profile photo of belunan
    belunan Male 30-39
    1507 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 11:56 pm
    In one of my Navy units there were 2 people that were known to be gay, a guy and a girl. Nobody cared. They were good at their jobs.

    Every time this comes up, I think back to them and wonder why this is such an issue.
  151. Profile photo of belunan
    belunan Male 30-39
    1507 posts
    December 19, 2010 at 11:57 pm
    "Now he has the ability to make advances with no recourse. "

    No true. Sexual harassment rules still apply to all.
  152. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 12:20 am
    "No true. Sexual harassment rules still apply to all."

    Hey you wanna go on a date is not sexual harassment. It also would never be asked openly if DADT was kept in place.
  153. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 12:37 am
    Hey you wanna go on a date is not sexual harassment. It also would never be asked openly if DADT was kept in place.
    And what, precisely, is wrong with that? If a male soldier asks out a female soldier, I suspect you`d have no qualms with it. So why is it such a big deal if a guy asks another guy, or a gal asks another gal? The worst that happens if both people involved are sane is one of them says "no", and that`s the end of it.
  154. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 12:53 am
    Not saying I have a problem with it. Joe Bob Billy Frank does though.

    DADT was put in place to protect gays and lesbians from that sort.

    DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED?!?!
  155. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 1:05 am
    DADT was put in place to protect gays and lesbians from that sort.
    No. DADT is a discriminatory policy put in place to silence the contributions of homosexual individuals in our society. It`s a lot harder to hate the gays when they`re the men and women defending you.

    As for protecting them, it seems a far better form of protection would be to kick out people who would respond violently to a romantic advance (not that such people are very likely to be the target of such an advance in the first place). Such a person obviously has no place in an occupation that requires disciplined behavior.
  156. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 1:37 am
    Hey, I might get told to shut up, and if I do, I respect that and will.

    Look, I`m not military. 4 years in the RAF Cadets in high school (that`s the British Royal Air Force for those not aware) is the best I can muster. I`m just a civilian.

    Seems to me that the people railing against the repeal of DADT are civilians like me, who don`t know what the f*ck they`re talking about. Those "soldiers" that I hear railing against it (correct me if I`m wrong) are nowhere near danger, they`re cooks, maintenence crews, logistics people, pen-pushers.

    Meanwhile, I hear actual service members (who I respect deeply) saying it`s no big deal, let`s get on with the job at hand.

    Forgive me if I pay more attention to the latter crew, who are serving on the front lines, rather than twats typing on their laptops and opining on things they have no direct concept of, like front-line combat.
  157. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 1:38 am
    I have respect enough to listen to what these guys are saying, do you?
  158. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 1:43 am
    The Commandant of the Marine Corps has gone on record saying it works. The Joint Chiefs of Staff agree with it, and General Petreaus says we shouldn`t change policy in time of war.
  159. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 1:48 am
    The Commandant of the Marine Corps has gone on record saying it works. The Joint Chiefs of Staff agree with it, and General Petreaus says we shouldn`t change policy in time of war.
    And all those people can suck it.

    You don`t keep persecuting a minority because "it works". You don`t deny the contributions of your citizens because they were born a certain way.

    And even if it causes us to lose this freakin` pointless war (which is highly unlikely), it is NEVER a bad time to do the right thing.
  160. Profile photo of Golden1
    Golden1 Female 18-29
    123 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 2:09 am
    It`s about time. I`m proud of the senate and the republicans that voted to get rid of this.
  161. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 3:50 am
    "The Commandant of the Marine Corps has gone on record saying it works. The Joint Chiefs of Staff agree with it, and General Petreaus says we shouldn`t change policy in time of war."

    And I persoanlly feel they know exactly what they are talking about, so I am not trying to discredit them at all. I strongly feel they would rather not make any drastic changes during a war, but on the other hand I feel that if it were not for war, there would be another excuse.

    Bottom line is, with any large change within the military, there is always a period of complaint and grumbling, but in time they all fall in line and it becomes business as usual. It happened with females, and it will happen with this too. And after all is said and done, we will still be a good fighting force.
  162. Profile photo of EricWRN
    EricWRN Male 30-39
    590 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 4:56 am
    "i only hear civilians complaining about the repeal of DADY" - that`s because you aren`t around any military

    I got out of the Army 2 years ago and i work on an Army post as a DoD Civilian now and I haven`t heard a single soldier who thinks this isn`t a horrible idea.

    And I agree that a president who changes BATTLE STRATEGY in the middle of a war we`re not winning is noble. A president who has NEVER SERVED who pushes a change in the SOCIAL STRUCTURE of the military during an actual war is a drating thoughtless, useless, moron
  163. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 5:18 am
    Having been in combat a number of times, I find it doubtful it will significant negative effects on morale, combat effectiveness or discipline. There will be some, however I have a feeling it will be no more than usual. Meaning, the same people who will cause a problem, would have caused a problem over a different subject/circumstance sooner or later anyways.
  164. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 6:25 am
    @auburnjunky

    "General Petreaus says we shouldn`t change policy in time of war."

    Hasn`t the US been at war pretty much non-stop since 2001?

    If you waited for peace before making changes, they`d never happen. There will ALWAYS be something going on.

    And are you honestly claiming that your highly-trained best and bravest are going to be driven to violence by merely being asked out on a date?

    Because that`s what you`re saying here:

    "The argument of "X was gay last week and you showered with him and slept in the same barracks" is moot.
    Now he has the ability to make advances with no recourse.
    Lots of late night soap-in-a-sock beatings will soon commence."

    Is that how little you think of your armed forces? That they`re just out-of-control thugs?

    If they are, then your military has major problems. If they`re not, you owe them a HUGE apology for that insult.
  165. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 8:31 am
    @musoko:

    While I love and appreciate our military, I also acknowledge that it is a safety net for rednecks, white trash, and thugs who have no hope of making it in a real, mid level paying job. They enlist right out of high school.

    It is definitely a good thing they do, because in 90% of cases, the military teaches them discipline and the skills needed to be productive in the world. Our current school system in this country fails at that for some people.

    That small minority of stupid, inbred, idiots who join the military to play with guns and kill legally though, I feel that it will be much easier for them to find an outlet for their meaningless existence with DADT being lifted.
  166. Profile photo of reptilia
    reptilia Female 18-29
    34 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 8:32 am
    EricWRN, weren`t gays serving in the military before the repeal of Don`t Ask, Don`t Tell? I mean, DADT didn`t actually prevent gay people from joining the military if they kept it hidden. Which means that no "social structure" is actually changing. These are the same guys there were before. Only, some people you`re serving with will just stop lying to you about how hot they think girls are. Deal with it, you freaking baby.
  167. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 9:22 am

  168. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 9:26 am
    Okay. Let me ask you this.

    Is it okay to have an 18-25 year old man shower with a bunch of 18-25 year old women? (maybe for the guy!)

    Is it okay to have an 18-25 year old gay man shower with a bunch of 18-25 year old men? (maybe for the gay guy!)

    Just a question.
  169. Profile photo of Atlas325
    Atlas325 Male 18-29
    9 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 9:48 am
    The way it goes period is that it is still at the soldiers discretion to come out. They know the danger w/ the "ruffians" Just be a man about it. Gay romances aren`t going to be allowed any more they straight ones are. And I don`t know why every man is scared that a guy will be interested in him. If you`re thick-headed enough to be anti-gay, then there is a HUGE probability they won`t think poo of you.
    And no, he doesn`t have the ability to make advances without recourse, he just has the ability to be true about who he is and still serve the country he loves. Even if you do hate it, the majority of the country doesn`t. Which means you are over-ruled. If you love your country enough to fight for it you should agree with the principle of majority rules. And now that said ruling has passed, be a man, grow up, and live with it.
  170. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 10:25 am
    @auburnjunky
    "While I love and appreciate our military, I also acknowledge that it is a safety net for rednecks, white trash, and thugs who have no hope of making it in a real, mid level paying job. They enlist right out of high school."

    Well, see... I am really glad you just came out and said that in the open. Now I don`t have to wonder if you have any character worth mentioning or if you are at all a credible source of information. Whatever credibility you may have had just went straight out the window in the time it took you to press "Post Reply". It must be nice and cozy in that little bubble of yours if you actually believe the filth that I quoted you. The military harbors some of the greatest minds and/or the best talents. And like any large organization, the miltary also harbors it`s ten percent of morons and trouble makers. I thought you were smart enough to understand that.
  171. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 10:28 am
    "Is it okay to have an 18-25 year old gay man shower with a bunch of 18-25 year old men? (maybe for the gay guy!)"

    Why is there this grand assumption that gay men should be at all considered females? I don`t think most gay men consider themselves female, why should we??

    Auburn, you truly are an ignorant little runt.

  172. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 10:53 am
    @auburnjunky

    "Is it okay to have an 18-25 year old man shower with a bunch of 18-25 year old women?"

    Yes.

    "Is it okay to have an 18-25 year old gay man shower with a bunch of 18-25 year old men?"

    Yes.

    There exists such a thing as "self-control" and also "just because I`m attracted to men/women, does not mean I am attracted to EVERY man/woman", otherwise known as "get over yourself, you`re not all that".
  173. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 10:57 am
    @auburnjunky

    The modern militaries of nations that do not employ conscription or national service are, on the whole, extremely well-trained and specialised, and anything but "rednecks, white trash, and thugs".

    Again, if what you say is true, then your military has serious problems unrelated to sexuality. And if what you are saying is incorrect, then once again you owe a huge apology to your armed forces.
  174. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 10:58 am
    @splurbyburbl: You totally missed the point.

    "Why is there this grand assumption that gay men should be at all considered females?"

    Because they LIKE MEN SEXUALLY. That`s why. People equate things they do not understand, with things they do understand. I do not understand what makes a man like a man, so I equate it with a woman liking a man.

    Also: "The military harbors some of the greatest minds and/or the best talents. And like any large organization, the miltary also harbors it`s ten percent of morons and trouble makers."

    That`s basically what I said.
  175. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 11:05 am
    @musoko:

    I understand self control. I also understand that, just speaking for myself here, don`t want another male fantasizing about my dangly parts.

    Now do not skewer me for that comment. No I do not think I`m such hot poop that a gay man would desire me. I have no idea what goes into that though process. I am just saying that Women have hangups about men seeing them naked (which is why the military has segregated barracks/shower areas for men and women), so as such, SOME MEN would have a hang up about an openly gay man showering with them. I don`t want a guy looking at me with his rock hard erection okay? Do you think a woman would like to see a guy gawking at her naked body while they shower and he`s set to burst?
  176. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 11:05 am
    Forget it. We agree to disagree. Please refer back to this post when the hate crimes within our military begin. Our high level leaders are going to have to have meetings on how to make this work, rather than making plans to end our stupid war.
  177. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 12:01 pm
    Has anyone ever seen a military shower here? Seriously, I`m sure they let you wear towels and everything... Or you can just handle it like my straight male friends do, take it as a compliment and kindly explain why it just wouldn`t work out.

    But when it comes to coed showers, I`m against it. There`s too much of a power imbalance there and it`s just inviting trouble. If it weren`t for that I would have no problem taking a shower with a cute guy (whom I`m in a relationship with of course).
  178. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    Enough with this ignorant talk about military showers. It`s complete nonsense. I know this as fact considering I am 14+ years in the Marines and have had to, on various occasions, take showers in the open.

    If you think that a gay man is going to see another naked man and instantly pop a boner, you are straight up drating retarded. Yes, that is a direct character attack on YOU if you believe it.

    Some of the people proclaiming things about situations they obviously have NEVER had to deal with in their cushy, sheltered life makes me sad that I have sworn to lay down my life for halfwits like you.

    If you have never actively been part of a war or actually showered with other naked men... I can`t say that you shouldn`t comment, but at least do some research and/or use some drating logic.
  179. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 1:23 pm
    @splurbsdfblawef:

    Showered in open showers during High School/College sports.

    I`m really just playing devil`s advocate here. I really, to be honest, don`t give a crap unless it causes problems.

    If I have to hear about it every night on the news, and gay servicemen/women start getting hazed all the time, then I say bring it back.

    Other than that, hooray.
  180. Profile photo of Reganom
    Reganom Male 18-29
    505 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 1:46 pm
    If I have to hear about it every night on the news, and gay servicemen/women start getting hazed all the time, then I say bring it back.

    Or discharge the idiots that do the hazing.

    Also, why does it come across to me that you think that with out the DADT you`re suddenly showering with gay guys where as you weren`t before. They haven`t changed, all that is changed is that you know. If they weren`t getting their rocks off over you in the shower before they won`t be now.

    Also one of my friends is gay and he makes the BEST wingman ever.
  181. Profile photo of belunan
    belunan Male 30-39
    1507 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 3:08 pm
    "Also one of my friends is gay and he makes the BEST wingman ever."

    This comment wins the Internet.
  182. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 8:52 pm
    Yep.

    With a gay wingman, you can avoid the friend zone.
  183. Profile photo of reptilia
    reptilia Female 18-29
    34 posts
    December 20, 2010 at 8:54 pm
    auburnjunky, your logic is flawed. You`re basically saying that makes it okay for lesbians to watch straight men get naked in the changing room because they`re NOT attracted to them. By your standards, it shouldn`t matter so long as there`s no attraction. So you and all men should be totally comfortable getting naked for an audience of gay women.

    Also, your argument basically justifies laws in middle eastern countries that make women cover themselves head to toe so they won`t "tempt" men to rape them. Gay guys should lie about who they are so as not to tempt hicks into kicking their asses. America isn`t supposed to prohibit freedoms, even if it`s just to "protect" somebody and prevent crime against them. That`s completely backward, that`s just punishing the innocent. America holds people responsible for their own actions, not the actions of others. If you can`t deal with the law, you`re the one who gets punished. The really homophobic can choose not to joi

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