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Date: 12/13/10 01:30 PM

74 Responses to Judge In Va. Strikes Down Federal Health Care Law

  1. Profile photo of Kozy
    Kozy Male 18-29
    118 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 1:15 pm
    Link: Judge In Va. Strikes Down Federal Health Care Law - A federal judge declared the foundation of President Obama`s health care law as unconstitutional.
  2. Profile photo of Ogen
    Ogen Male 18-29
    441 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 1:37 pm
    In Oregon you are required by law to have car insurance. Health insurance should be no different, but there needs to be an affordable option for the people that have a budget of basically... nothing.

    You can choose to not drive a car, you can`t choose to not be alive.
  3. Profile photo of jeffcomedy
    jeffcomedy Male 30-39
    178 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 1:39 pm
    Why the Pow?
  4. Profile photo of Kozy
    Kozy Male 18-29
    118 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 1:49 pm
    @jeffcomedy
    Why the Pow?
    Don`t look at me. I didn`t put it there when I submitted it.

    Can I get a moderate to emit it?
  5. Profile photo of SPARTAKITTY
    SPARTAKITTY Female 18-29
    2123 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 1:50 pm
    @Ogen
    You`re forgetting suicide, m`dear.
  6. Profile photo of patchouly
    patchouly Male 40-49
    4746 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 1:52 pm
    I have trouble understanding how forcing someone to buy insurance is in some way "socialized" health care.

    You guys really need to get what we have in the rest of the modernized world. Free health care, paid for through taxes. And don`t gripe to me about the rich having to pay for treatments when they aren`t even sick. How do you think folks who have no car like paying for the roads etc.?
  7. Profile photo of Kozy
    Kozy Male 18-29
    118 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 1:53 pm
  8. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:01 pm
    The headline is wrong. This judge ruled that part of the health care law is unconstitutional. He did not strike it down; by his own orders the law will remain in effect while appeals are heard. Not that it matters, since the law wouldn`t take effect for another three years anyway.
  9. Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:02 pm
    Oh boy, I can sense another debate on health care again. *Gets out the popcorn and takes a seat*
  10. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5863 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:04 pm
    Ogen-"In Oregon you are required by law to have car insurance. Health insurance should be no different...You can choose to not drive a car, you can`t choose to not be alive."

    See, you have it backwards. Oregon does not FORCE you to have car insurance. They only require it if you decide to drive. And then (as in most states), you`re only required to carry liability, which is to protect OTHER people, not you.

    What these have in common:
    To own a car, they require you to have car insurance...but only if you own a car and drive on gov`t roads.
    To drive, gas taxes and car tags...no car? not enforced.
    To hunt, must buy license...no hunt? Don`t pay.
    To own property, property taxes...which you can opt out of by not owning property.

    None of the above are you FORCED to pay. Only if you participate in the covered actions must you pay.

    BUT, Obamacare is being forced on EVERYONE (except, Obama`s friends), and YOU HAVE NO WAY TO OPT
  11. Profile photo of mericksonj
    mericksonj Male 30-39
    12 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:16 pm
    If the government forced everyone to buy a gun wouldn`t that be unconstitutional too? Giving them away for free because we have a right to bear arms would also be unconstitutional.

    I love that word, unconstitutional, it sounds so.. unconstitutional.

    Besides, auto insurance is required for liability reasons to protect the public, not to make sure you`re protected from yourself.

    A more apropros analogy would be motorcycle helmet laws.
  12. Profile photo of slab-of-rage
    slab-of-rage Male 18-29
    769 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:21 pm
    Are socialists the new American boogeyman like communists used to be?

    Anyway, I`m getting out of here before the fighting starts.
  13. Profile photo of iambuzzed
    iambuzzed Male 40-49
    93 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:31 pm
    MeGrendel is close to the point...but forgets to mention that everyone that is alive is participating in the covered actions. Everyone uses health care sooner or later; everyone should pay.
  14. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:32 pm
    I don`t want his healthcare and don`t want to be forced to buy it.

    I don`t have to buy their healthcare for them to offer FREE healthcare to all of the poor people that will vote for them to have it. All the free health care supporters have to do is be willing to raise taxes enough to pay for it.

    I think they like raising taxes. Should come easy.

    .... and yes Socialism doesn`t work for a free America. Many Americans don`t believe that the government should take personal property from one group to redistribute it and give it to another. and yes... our money is personal property, not the governments. What they do believe is that the government should make sure that all Americans have the chance to succeed. They believe in equal opportunity not equal results or outcome.
  15. Profile photo of RobSwindol
    RobSwindol Male 30-39
    2508 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:42 pm
    "A more apropros analogy would be motorcycle helmet laws."

    OK, you`re a moron. This has nothing like the helmet law for the simple fact that riding a motorcycle is not a right, but instead a privilage. And with such privilages come conditions, such as helmet laws.

    But good health = longer life, and life isn`t a privalage. In fact, our fore fathers called it an unalienable RIGHT.
  16. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:51 pm
    1) It`s 3 am.
    2) Please apply all anti-healthcare arguments to the military.

    Remember, if you`re against the military, you`re against America.
  17. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:56 pm
    "Health insurance should be no different, but there needs to be an affordable option for the people that have a budget of basically... nothing"

    As with everything to do with healthcare complaints, this is already in the bill. If you can`t afford it, you aren`t forced to buy it. You can argue about whether it`s good enough, but it`s there. (Republicans, this is where you knee jerk "NOT GOOD ENOUGH!", though you`ll probably look up the cutoff point after saying it rather than before)
  18. Profile photo of DoubleSteve
    DoubleSteve Male 30-39
    34 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:56 pm
    You need to realize that you`re already paying for Socialized healthcare. Everytime some uninsured crack-head goes into a hospital you`re paying for their healthcare through your elevated premiums. Forcing people to carry insurance distributes more of the cost to the people that are using it.

    You can`t Opt-out of needing healthcare, you shouldn`t be able to Opt-out of paying for it. You already pay taxes for infrastructure and education that you may or may not use, how is healthcare which is arguably the most necessary thing society provides any different? I don`t need a bridge to live, but if I get shot I need healthcare to live. I`m tired of taking on the burden of people who don`t want to pay for health insurance and end up dumping off their costs on people who actually do while screaming Obamacare. You people are the drating problem, not some mythical socialist who`s trying to raise your taxes.
  19. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5863 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 2:59 pm
    iambuzzed-" Everyone uses health care sooner or later; everyone should pay."

    But Obamacare is not about `everyone` paying. It`s about the productive being forced to pay for the non-productive. At its core, it is about redistribution of wealth (Max Baucus admitted that) . As in "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." From there it`s a small step to "Nothing in society will belong to anyone, either as a personal possession or as captal goods."

    The basic problem, is that a no other time has the Federal Government mandated that YOU WILL PURCHASE THIS ITEM, THROUGH PENALTY OF FINE OR IMPRISONMENT.

    And, quite frankley, that`s not a direction I want to go in.

    If it were about `everyone` paying, Obama wouldn`t have granted over 200 waivers to some of his favorite companies and unions?
  20. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25405 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 3:10 pm
    meh..
  21. Profile photo of Durrell
    Durrell Male 18-29
    136 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 3:19 pm
    This sucks, you guys need to see that this health insurance thing isn`t about `purchasing` its about keeping people alive. just because someone isn`t as productive as another doesn`t mean they have less right to live.

    I happily pay my taxes so that others in worse health than i can have a hope of getting better, and that is a feeling shared by my fellow canadians, you guys should learn from us on that point
  22. Profile photo of TopperHey
    TopperHey Male 18-29
    1930 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 3:48 pm
    Every time I hear "unconstitutional" I hear "illegal". Maybe the Constitution should be scrapped and you should just have "The Law". That way, when you pass a law it becomes legal. Or you could just bolt an "amendment" onto everything and have done with it. Easier that way.
  23. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 3:50 pm
    Kudos to the judge for ruling against it.

    Patchouly: "Free health care, paid for through taxes." That would make it not free. NOTHING is free. You need to "get" that, canuck.

    It`s no wonder Canadian health care is cheaper; Canada promotes massive theft of intellectual property to make their "generic" drugs.
  24. Profile photo of ruthless1990
    ruthless1990 Female 18-29
    3001 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 3:58 pm
    its sad that Americans don`t think healthcare is something everyone is entitled to, and that being looked after when your ill is something you have to work for.

    i don`t mind that a certain amount of my taxes go to the NHS to help people who need it, im glad that if someone in our country needs treatment, no matter what, they get it.

    not having a free health care system is something i just cannot comprehend.
  25. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 4:00 pm
    Well if that`s the case why must Americans be forced to buy Auto Insurance.
  26. Profile photo of Cruddup
    Cruddup Male 30-39
    56 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 4:22 pm
    Driving is a privilege, not a right. Apples and oranges.
  27. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 4:58 pm
    @handys003 - Several points to make about the auto insurance deal.

    1. The government built the roads.. you don`t have to have insurance if you don`t drive on them.

    2. You can find other means of travel. (e.g. Bicycling, taxis, horses - whatever).

    3. You don`t have to own a auto in America, but you can`t "not live" in order to not buy the insurance.

  28. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 4:59 pm
    @ruthless1990 We do think everyone is entitled to it. Just us working class don`t like the idea of having to buy it for everyone else.
  29. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:01 pm
    Canadians crack me up.. Even here in Kentucky they brag about how wonderful their "free health care" is, although when they need a major surgery they don`t mind one but coming to the UK Medical Center to have something done that requires a specialist.

    What`s the problem with waiting for the surgery in Canada? Oh.. it takes 6 months you say? Oh.. it is on the other side of Canada, and you have to pay for the trip there?

    I see..
  30. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:06 pm
    @patchouly "I have trouble understanding how forcing someone to buy insurance is in some way "socialized" health care."

    It is socialized because only the working class is paying for it, or being fined if they don`t. This country is a capitalist country, everyone has the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.. not a "guarantee.. that if you can`t afford it, we take it from those who have worked for it."
  31. Profile photo of vegascartman
    vegascartman Male 30-39
    735 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:12 pm
    WOO HOO! The first step toward getting rid of Obama`s Communism! This is a great day for America!
  32. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    I sincerely hope this goes straight to the Supreme Court.
  33. Profile photo of mal_BB
    mal_BB Male 18-29
    1231 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:14 pm
    I wonder if that judge has friends who are on the board of directors for an insurance company, which may lose out due to a nationalised health care system...
  34. Profile photo of angelbrat
    angelbrat Female 18-29
    178 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:21 pm
    But what about people who do work their butts off, and not in a simple office job where you sit all day but actual labor, but since it`s minimum wage you can`t afford health care? We pay our taxes too we just don`t make as much.
  35. Profile photo of BrimstoneOne
    BrimstoneOne Male 30-39
    2229 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:29 pm
    Canada doesn`t have "free" health care, we have universal health care. It much like insurance, everyone pays in (that`s what taxes are for), so that when something happens, you get BASIC coverage at minimal to no cost. It is a astounding that American citizens are allowing their government Representatives to cut their taxes, which is the same as cutting the government `necessities` (i believe you call them services)

    After I wrote the above, you have allowed the corporatazation of even your language, the mudding of terms that describe what is, has been "hijacked" by corporate terminology.

  36. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:33 pm
    @BrimstoneOne: And there you have it.. we don`t want "BASIC" coverage. We want to buy whatever coverage we choose to, or choose not to.

    That is part of our Constitution.. we buy and trade what we want.
  37. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:34 pm
    @angelbrat: I guess you will have to work overtime to pay for it. Or go to jail for not making enough money to pay for it (because not paying the fine, and not buying the insurance is against the Obama Medicare plan!).
  38. Profile photo of LtFurpie
    LtFurpie Male 30-39
    1014 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:36 pm
    The world is overpopulated enough and this bill is only going to help the decrepit survive for free. Look at China, too many people, well then kill your first born if its female. Now they`re complaining there`s too many helmets at the bar scene.
  39. Profile photo of Durrell
    Durrell Male 18-29
    136 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 5:56 pm
    @elkingo

    you are still more than welcome to purchase more comprehensive insurance here if you want. but the basics are provided through your taxes.

    plain and simple.
  40. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5385 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 6:03 pm
    @Durrell: You forgot to add "unconstitutionally" to provided.

  41. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 6:31 pm
    @elkingo and Crudup

    Actually my taxes paid and built the roads in the USA. It is a right and not a privilege by that alone. The government has you fooled as the government cannot force you to buy from private companies written into commerce laws. That`s what criminal lawyers tell you it`s a privilege and not commerce lawyers who are more aware of your rights.

    If you want auto insurance you should not be forced by the government. As twisted as it may seem. You should buy the insurance on voluntary protection for yourself when driving. To protect yourself from the idiots who drive. It should never be forced upon.

    Unfortunately this is on the states level and needs to be sued in each state.
  42. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 6:40 pm
    I have a question for those opposed to healthcare funded from taxes:

    What do you think should be funded from taxes?

    I think key infrastructure for a country should be funded from taxes and I include healthcare in that. Besides, it`s cheaper to do it that way than to have healthcare as a source of profit for insurance, drug and medical supplies companies.
  43. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5863 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 7:05 pm
    handys003-"Actually my taxes paid and built the roads in the USA. It is a right.."

    Yes, your taxes were used, and you have a right to use the roads. But NOT a right to use an automobile upon them. (Or will your next contention be that "Da Rich" buy you a car this exercise this `right` if you can`t afford one.) You`re free to ride a walk, ride a bike or even a horse-drawn carriage on most (not all).

    You do NOT have a `right` to operate a motor vehicle. IF you can afford one on your own, and the taxes and insurance, AND you demonstrate the capability, you will be ALLOWED to operate a motor vehicle on the national roads.
  44. Profile photo of knight3000
    knight3000 Male 40-49
    25 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 7:10 pm
    The Constitution neither grants Congress nor the President the power to compel every American to buy government-approved health insurance. The unconstitutional individual mandate is the centerpiece of the health care takeover and today’s ruling should signal the beginning of the end for Obamacare. Congress must listen to the American people and fully repeal Obamacare immediately. Then we can move to real solutions that make health care more affordable and increase choices that keep patients in control over their own care.
  45. Profile photo of trudenter
    trudenter Male 18-29
    69 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 7:23 pm
    i dunno im canadian and im lost, someone mind filling me in why healthcare is such a bad thing?
  46. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 7:25 pm
    @McGrendel
    Better counter.
    However I disagree with right on the other modes you offer. I cannot walk down the side of the road. It must be a side walk. Yet many of Outer Island roads are not equipped for pedestrians to walk including no shoulder. Same goes with horse or horse drawn carriage. You are not allowed to operate such modes of transport.

    The fact remains commerce laws state that government cannot force you to buy from private companies.
  47. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 7:34 pm
    @Angilion
    Actually the infrastructure is funded not from taxes gathered through paychecks. It`s funded by a .33 cent a gallon gas tax through out the nation. Then states like Hawaii charge an additional set amount for their use.

    Actually I don`t agree with any federal tax allocated to health care. We already have a separate Medicare tax taken out with Social Security on our paychecks. If the US government paid the 2.5 trillion it owes for borrowing that trust fund. We would have the money to offset for National Health.
  48. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2758 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 7:42 pm
    I`m really confused as to why this is a bad thing. Is it just the fact that people don`t like the government telling them they have to do something or is there a real reason?
  49. Profile photo of LtFurpie
    LtFurpie Male 30-39
    1014 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 7:46 pm
    @HalfPint, Whenever the government "governmentalizes" anything, we all loose. Look at how much the Federal Reserve Act has cost us over the life of the program. With all that money wasted, we could have had government *mandated* health-care
  50. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3142 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 7:59 pm
    HalfPintRoo, you would live comfortably in the book, 1984.

    "The government says it`s okay, then it must be good!"
  51. Profile photo of DickenMcHunt
    DickenMcHunt Male 18-29
    1299 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 8:59 pm
    Meanwhile- a there would be zero debate over the constitutional legality of a Public Option; and based on this judges argument would make the existing bill Constitutionally compliant.

    Let`s also keep in mind that this is one of four Judges that has officially reviewed the bill- this ruling is largely irrelevant, even if he had ruled in it`s favor as the previous judges had this bill would inevitably be on it`s way to the Supreme Court. It is the Supreme Court that will ultimately decide the fate of this legislation.
  52. Profile photo of DickenMcHunt
    DickenMcHunt Male 18-29
    1299 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 9:01 pm
    Elkingo:
    "Just us working class don`t like the idea of having to buy it for everyone else. "

    Speak for yourself.
  53. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5863 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 9:04 pm
    handys003-"I cannot walk down the side of the road. It must be a side walk."

    That is incorrect. Barring interstates, pedestrians, bicycles and even horse drawn vehicles are not only allowed, but have the right away. Most states driver`s manuals have a statement similar to this one from my state: "Traffic laws apply to all who use the streets and roads - drivers of vehicles, operators of motorcycles and bicycles, and pedestrians.

    In fact, the driver`s manual in my state goes on to state:
    "PEDESTRIANS MUST:
    • Obey traffic control signals at intersections.
    • Use sidewalks where provided and usable.
    • Walk on the left side of the roadway giving way to oncoming traffic.
    • Yield to all vehicles when crossing at points other than within a marked
    crosswalk or in a crosswalk (extension of the sidewalk) at an intersection.
    • Not stand in the roadway while hitchhiking."

  54. Profile photo of HalfPintRoo
    HalfPintRoo Female 18-29
    2758 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 9:35 pm
    but don`t we already pay for people without health care? When they walk in, get treated and don`t pay? (I am not trying to sound ignorant- honest question)
  55. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 9:45 pm
    @HalfPintRoo

    here is your base right.

    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America".


    Domestic Tranquility
    One of the concerns of the Framers was that the government prior to that under the Constitution was unable, by force or persuasion, to quell rebellion or quarrels amongst the states. The government watched in horror as Shay`s Rebellion transpired just before the Convention, and some states had very nearly gone to war with each other over territory (such as between Pennsylvania and Connecticut over Wilkes-Barre). One of the main goals of the Convention, then, was to ensure the federal government had powers to squash rebellion and to smooth tensions between sta
  56. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 9:47 pm
    @HalfPintRoo continued:

    Welfare
    welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [<ME wel faren, to fare well"> Source: AHD

    Welfare in today`s context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.





    http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Preamble
  57. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 9:56 pm
    @meGrendel
    Nice quoting of your states rules. However it is illegal for you to walk on certain roadways and conditions of roads in Hawaii. Only in designated Pedestrian zones. Some of the roads in Hawaii are far dangerous to walk upon due to various conditions and the way the roads are built, and signs are posted. For instance Queen K Hwy between mile Marker 85 and 137 is not allowed for Pedestrians as deemed unsafe due to size and terrain. However Queen Hwy 84 to 11 is wide open and built safely to even permit traffic/bicyclists/pedestrians during the Ironman triathlon.
  58. Profile photo of HKelch
    HKelch Male 30-39
    113 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 10:33 pm
    Its really not fair that Obama should be expected to follow the constution
  59. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 10:44 pm
    @Angilion
    Actually the infrastructure is funded not from taxes gathered through paychecks. It`s funded by a .33 cent a gallon gas tax through out the nation. Then states like Hawaii charge an additional set amount for their use.

    So it`s paid for by taxes. Which was my point. Besides, you do pay income tax in the USA, right? Do you think the government just throws it away or spends it on beer?
  60. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 11:02 pm
    @Angilion

    yes infrastructure is paid by the gas tax. However healthcare is not considered infrastructure. that money strictly goes toward road, bridges, water, and sewer and transportation such as subway systems. The money that comes out of paychecks is advance pay toward collection at the end of the year. it`s designed so that those workers don`t owe huge sums at the end of the year. The main ones are the Federal Income Tax which depends upon that weeks earnings a percentage is taken out and Social security which includes Retirement, disability and Medicare. That is to be separate of the Federal budget. At the end of the year you must file Income tax with the IRS to which any earnings minus the gadzillion deductions determines whether you get a refund or still owe more to pay. It`s a nuttty system. They make the most brilliant financial minds shutter with all the rules. I know several locals who make 7 figures and still don`t pay any taxes.
  61. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 11:06 pm
    @Angilion
    Concerning do we throw it away/ Do you consider writing checks for more than what you have. incurring debt you can`t repay such as borrowing the money for Social Security/medicare. Which btw could pay for healthcare. Then not being able to pay it back making SS bankrupt as well in reality we are. Then add onto we just cut the EU 330 billion in bailouts on money we don`t have. LOL! Yeah I would say we throw it all away like there is no tommorrow.
  62. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 11:16 pm
    Also Angilion what I consider what should be spent by taxes. Military as in defense and research and development. Science, Law enforcement, Education, and Housing. Health care if done right would come out of the SS/Medicare trust fund separate from the other federal taxes. Don`t get me started on the details where to cut though. that is so intricate among political bureaucrats you would go insane right now. even though I think the Presidential administration need to stay home and quit traveling and get elbow deep into such cuts. that`s what i would be doing and forget the political speeches and get it done and balanced. Oh BTW I forgot the states and cities have their own taxes plus local sales tax. Not all states have income tax though.

    Too long my diatribe?
  63. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 13, 2010 at 11:50 pm
    @belunan

    Is that in puka shells denomination?
  64. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 12:39 am
    Hmm...I`ve looked a little at the USA taxation system.

    Was it made up as a bet at a week-long drinking binge?

    "Dude, I bet I can totally make it more complicated than you can! Look at this plan, it`s so complicated that it`ll take all day to figure it out!"

    "Ha, I win the bet. Check this plan out, it`s so complicated I don`t understand it and I made it up!"

    "Hahaha, brilliant. Hey! Let`s do both of them!"

    "Great idea! And...and...we`ll make everyone work out their own tax, because that`ll be a laugh!"

    "I`ll drink to that!"

    On a serious note, I think healthcare should be considered part of a country`s essential infrastructure and therefore paid for from taxes.
  65. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 12:53 am
    "At its core, this dispute is not simply about regulating the business of insurance — or crafting a scheme of universal health insurance coverage — it`s about an individual`s right to choose to participate,"

    Can individual`s also choose not to participate in lawful actions? What about paying taxes?
  66. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 12:53 am
    @Angilion
    I`ll drink to that scenario.
  67. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4683 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 6:46 am
    "Free healthcare for all is evil, mmkay"

    Only in America!
  68. Profile photo of Grendel
    Grendel Male 40-49
    5863 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 6:56 am
    Angilion-"Was it made up as a bet at a week-long drinking binge?"

    Pretty much, it`s decades and decades of jury-rigging and exceptions, etc. That`s why I think the easiest, tax would be a flat tax. EVERYBODY gets taxed, EVERYBODY has a dog in the hunt, EVERYBODY is effected by any tax changes. (easy, but the fairest would be elimination of the income tax, and going to a national retail sales tax).

    Then your tax form would be very simple: "How much money did you make last year? You owe the IRS X% of that." (this is not to be confused with the new Obama Tax form, which states "How much money did you make last year? Send it all in.")

    Angilion-" I think healthcare should be considered part of a country`s essential infrastructure.."

    Fortunately, what you think is irrelevant. It`s about what is legal and what is constitutional.
  69. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 7:27 am
    gorgack2000: It`s not `Free` when everyone is then forced to buy heath insurance or face heavy fines and jail time.

    Thankfully there are some sane judges in our courts and this one made the correct decision.
  70. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 8:43 am
    Judge Hudson`s ownership of a stake worth between $15,000 and $50,000 in a GOP political consulting firm that worked against health care reform -- the very law against which he ruled -- is troubling, to say the least.

    Federal judges are required by statute to disqualify themselves from hearing a case whenever their impartiality might reasonably be questioned. Holding an investment interest in a political lobbying concern is essentially taking a financial interest in legislation before Congress. Hudson clearly should have recused himself.
  71. Profile photo of Axejst
    Axejst Male 30-39
    130 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 9:22 am
    IN THAT CASE, I WANT OUT OF SOCIAL SECURITY TOO. Hypocrites.
  72. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 9:39 am
    Axejst IN THAT CASE, I WANT OUT OF SOCIAL SECURITY TOO. Hypocrites.

    Me too! I agree. Just refund all of my money that was taken from my pay and I`ll handle it on my own.
  73. Profile photo of DuckBoy87
    DuckBoy87 Male 18-29
    3142 posts
    December 14, 2010 at 7:06 pm
    MeGrendel, there was actually a representative in PA that ran on that campaign; have a flat income tax and raise sales tax. And I agree with it.

    You jest Axejst, but SS is a piss poor system, and I agree with tridirk. Let me set up my own retirement fund...
  74. Profile photo of Baelzar
    Baelzar Male 40-49
    1399 posts
    December 15, 2010 at 9:45 am
    Axejst, you think just because something is currently in effect that makes it a good idea?

    HELL YES we need to privatize Social Security. It`s such an incredible rip off.

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