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Date: 11/13/10 10:33 AM

201 Responses to Illinois Teens Wear `Straight Pride` Shirts

  1. Profile photo of EmoGangster
    EmoGangster Male 13-17
    185 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:12 am
    Link: Illinois Teens Wear `Straight Pride` Shirts - The shirt also called for death to all gay activity via a passage from the Bible. Is this a case of free speech, I-A-B?
  2. Profile photo of cjap2011
    cjap2011 Male 18-29
    72 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:37 am
    Yet, if a gay student wears a "gay pride" shirt, it`s deemed offensive?
  3. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25407 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:43 am
    Eeeek!
  4. Profile photo of Glowy
    Glowy Male 18-29
    355 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:47 am
    No why the drat would a gay pride t-shirt be offensive?
  5. Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:49 am
    I`m going to make a shirt with timothy 2:12 on it. It`s my favorite bible verse EVER
  6. Profile photo of Challenger23
    Challenger23 Female 18-29
    346 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:51 am
    ok I don`t have a problem with free speech and all that but they went a little over the top. Being proud of who you are in whatever case is perfectly fine but they were doing it to attack others which is not fine. On the other hand there is freedom of religion and while I disagree with them because I myself am not a religious type person, I believe the passage used on the shirts was from the old testament and if they were christian then they would know that that law or whatever had been thrown out or whatever in the new testament. So really it was just rather bigoted of them.
  7. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:51 am
    "Homosexuals deserve to die" is not a legitimate opinion. I think if all the shirts said were "straight pride," the school would have been doing the right thing by not banning them (even though the position is inherently adversarial. Declaring "Gay pride" is much different, since people are actively trying to make people feel horrible about being Gay. No gay people are, in earnest, taking the position that heterosexuality is "evil" or "an abomination.")
  8. Profile photo of Kane132
    Kane132 Male 18-29
    374 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:52 am
    `Yet, if a gay student wears a "gay pride" shirt, it`s deemed offensive?`

    Nope, neither is "straight pride" as the headmaster of the school pointed out. The difference is that on the back of "gay pride" t-shirts it doesn`t say that straight people should be killed. The school is allowing their students to wear both "straight pride" and "gay pride shirts", but have to be tolerant of other sexual orientations.
  9. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4683 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:52 am
    WGNTV sure has a lot of facebook notifications.
  10. Profile photo of Kane132
    Kane132 Male 18-29
    374 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:54 am
    To save everyone`s time in looking up Timothy 2:12, here is the quote: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;Or over her husband she must be quiet."
  11. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:56 am
    I like Leviticus 11:13: "“‘These are the birds you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat."

    I want a shirt with this on the back that says "drat the dirty herons, owls and bats" on the front.
  12. Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:58 am
    "I believe the passage used on the shirts was from the old testament and if they were christian then they would know that that law or whatever had been thrown out or whatever in the new testament."

    None of the laws get thrown out. It`s the word of God!!!! Which is why, in my opinion, the Bible is one of the most bigoted, hate-filled books of all time.

    Moreover, the passage in the Old Testament is referenced somewhere in one of Paul`s letters in the Old Testament, reinforcing this kind of homophobia.
  13. Profile photo of lilylilylily
    lilylilylily Female 13-17
    83 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:58 am
    I think the district handled it alright. If students are allowed to wear "gay pride" shirts, then they should also be allowed to wear "straight pride" shirts. The biblical passage on the back is too offensive and disrespectful, in my opinion.
  14. Profile photo of Skabashas
    Skabashas Male 18-29
    1255 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:59 am
    HOLY COW, St. Charles North is literally a stone`s throw from my house! I have a few buddies who went to high school there!
  15. Profile photo of TR-Wolf
    TR-Wolf Male 18-29
    1557 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 11:17 am
    Although I don`t like gay pride (even though I`m gay), the difference in gay pride is that it doesn`t condemn heterosexuality.
  16. Profile photo of bex753
    bex753 Male 40-49
    221 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 11:17 am
    The bible seems quite a lot of the time the rantings of a grumpy old man moaning about his neighbours.
  17. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 11:31 am
    more proof conservatism is a disease.
  18. Profile photo of Jammey
    Jammey Male 18-29
    239 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 11:38 am
    Let them say what they want, as soon as anything remotely physical happens, "strike down upon with great vengeance and fuuuurious anger] (Ezekiel 25:17) ;)
  19. Profile photo of evilducky00
    evilducky00 Male 18-29
    430 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 11:38 am
    If we gonna follow old laws then this give me a reason to wipe out entire high schools. If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him… They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.
  20. Profile photo of WalkinAftr12
    WalkinAftr12 Female 18-29
    169 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 11:44 am
    As a pretty-much lesbian, I`m all for the straight pride, its the whole "killing the gays" thing that gets me.
  21. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 11:51 am
    I`m all for freedom of speech. It definitely helps one identify dangerous individuals such as religious zealots and conservative nutjobs.
  22. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 11:58 am
    @TR-Wolf, straight pride wouldnt condemn homosexuality, don`t let some highschoolers with shirts and a magic marker become your definition of straight pride.
  23. Profile photo of msieg007
    msieg007 Male 18-29
    2035 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:01 pm
    Free speech? Yep.

    The rule of thumb in schools is that students can basically wear whatever they want as long as it doesn`t interfere with the learning process.

    These shirts are pretty close to that line though.
  24. Profile photo of SuperOnion
    SuperOnion Male 18-29
    151 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:05 pm
    Aren`t there laws against inciting violence?
  25. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:06 pm
    @fiizok: That`s why we have Fox "news".
  26. Profile photo of Solvent
    Solvent Male 18-29
    2842 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:14 pm
    Straight pride is fine, condemning all homesexuals to death based a 2,000 year old passage is not.
  27. Profile photo of SapphireHart
    SapphireHart Female 18-29
    412 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:18 pm
    "None of the laws get thrown out. It`s the word of God!!!! Which is why, in my opinion, the Bible is one of the most bigoted, hate-filled books of all time."

    Jesus came to modify issues in the old testament, because man as a whole are sinners. If Jesus came to save us and all we have to do is believe he took our sins away when he died and rose again then that is hardly hate-filled. If we then choose to do things that God might see as wrong (eg stealing) we now have the option to ask for forgiveness should we wish it, instead of burning a lamb and holding rituals etc. As far as I am aware it is only the physical acts of gays that is "wrong" in the bible, but then so is promiscuity, so virtually everyone (gay or straight) is sinning anyway!

    Paul even says some parts are not direct from God but his own thoughts on certain matters.

    I myself believe that each christian has their own personal relationship with God and noone else has a right to
  28. Profile photo of SapphireHart
    SapphireHart Female 18-29
    412 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:19 pm
    (that was meant to end) judge anyone else when it comes to that.
  29. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:26 pm
    Paul even says some parts are not direct from God but his own thoughts on certain matters.
    2 Timothy 3:16 - "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
  30. Profile photo of asurazero
    asurazero Male 18-29
    185 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    i just hate everyone.....
  31. Profile photo of shizzamX
    shizzamX Female 18-29
    2697 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:31 pm
    i don`t see a problem with wearing "straight pride" shirts but the biblical reference was unneeded. surely if i wore a shirt with my own bs "religious" reference about killing all straight people, there would be an issue with it.
  32. Profile photo of BrimstoneOne
    BrimstoneOne Male 30-39
    2229 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:33 pm
    I find it rather strange to hold the bible up as moral and with virtue, when the "god" that it portrays is one of the biggest `killers`. And some of the figures in the bible holds as "heroes" are some of worst `sinners`.

    The hypocrisy in the bible is so mirrored by the fundamentalists, that it be funny, if it weren`t so damn dangerous.
  33. Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:34 pm
    Jesus did not come to modify issues in the old testament. In christian doctrine, he came simply to be the savior. Apologists like to spout that the coming of Jesus caused all of the old testament laws to be thrown to the wayside; this is not true. Here are some verses spoken by Jesus:

    "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

    “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
  34. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:39 pm
    Why don`t you just drop the whole "Bible was written by god" for a minute and look at your actions.

    Are you being a dick?

    Are you causing people to feel horrible as a result of your actions?

    Are you happy with your self, regardless if your deity tells you to do this or not? What would make you feel happy, regardless of your deity`s wants/commands?

    What gets things done faster? People fighting, or people working together?
  35. Profile photo of hatface
    hatface Male 18-29
    605 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:40 pm
    At first I was thinking `heh, I guess thats kinnda funny, a satire on `gay pride`. Then...oh what? death to gays on the back? Never mind.`
  36. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:40 pm
    Free speech.
  37. Profile photo of darkgear6
    darkgear6 Male 70 & Over
    1378 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 12:51 pm
    Religion up to no good again
  38. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7425 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:05 pm
    having a "straight pride" shirt is no problem, but calling for the death of anybody is just wrong.

    straight pride of gay pride, just be proud of who you are.

    a public service announcement brought to you by cobrakiller.
  39. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7421 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:06 pm
    It is Free Speech- but a bloody thin line between that and all sorts of nasties. I think you can say it and state your opinion- but not incite others to act upon it, nor act yourself. I feel so sad for these people.
  40. Profile photo of RiseAgainst3
    RiseAgainst3 Male 13-17
    394 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:08 pm
    @hatface.

    That is literally the exact comment I was about to post.
  41. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31771 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:09 pm
    They didn`t need to add a Bible passage, just plain "Straight Pride" would have had the exact same effect.
  42. Profile photo of Tisjokar
    Tisjokar Male 18-29
    985 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:16 pm
    I go to a religious school and about 95% of the students are Christan, if you asked them if being gay is a choice, they say "Yes it is and they will burn in hell for it" or along those lines.
    Then if you ask why they think that, they say their priest/pastor/youth group told them that.

    Its absolutely sickening what Christianity is putting in to those kids brains. They laugh when I say that evolution has really good evidence and is very possible even in the current state of theory.

    They love telling me how im going to die, but if i said "The bible can be proven false by X" (Fill X with many many reasons), they put there hands on their ears and go "lalalalalalala"
    You have to wear a mask at a Christan school, (well mine), but they tell you that "Being yourself is what matters"
    What about the gay students?...

    Just one small part of my life experiences with religion...
  43. Profile photo of a1butcher
    a1butcher Male 40-49
    4812 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:17 pm
    Oh god... here we go again.
  44. Profile photo of Jasonbobdude
    Jasonbobdude Male 18-29
    1598 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:20 pm
    Free speech does give people some room to be stupid... It`s sad, but getting rid of it would be giving up rights, so there`s no way to really win.

    As long as they don`t act on it, it`s legal.
  45. Profile photo of PsychGeek
    PsychGeek Female 18-29
    1798 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:24 pm
    @ Tisjokar:

    it`s not Christianity putting those ideas into kids` heads...it`s homophobic men who have written those passages into the Bible, it`s homophobic people who are too closed-minded and bigoted to open their eyes and see the truth about homosexuality.

    @ jason: when you are in a school, your right to that kind of freedom of speech is taken away. you are under the authority of the administration.
  46. Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:26 pm
    arguing about truth in fiction is as ridiculous as living as though the fiction were true.
  47. Profile photo of SilverThread
    SilverThread Male 30-39
    3435 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:31 pm
    I am all about straight pride.

    I am not about killing people for not being straight.

  48. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:56 pm
    "Gay Pride" is a play on the term "Black Pride" invented during the civil rights movement to help lift the spirits of a downtrodden segment of society. In that era it was quite obvious that black Americans were discriminated against and even some white people wore Black Pride shirts to show solidarity.

    Today we live in a world where privileged, lily-white, Christian pricks act as if they`re the downtrodden segment of society and use their fairy tale to hold onto their god given right to hate. Where supporters of gay rights wouldn`t be caught dead in a Gay Pride t-shirt.

    Don`t worry rednecks, unlike gay people, you have all the protections the constitution provides. So yeah you have free speech and the right to be a douchebag. Good luck with that.
  49. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 1:56 pm
    madest wins.

    /thread
  50. Profile photo of SlimPickins
    SlimPickins Male 18-29
    120 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 2:18 pm
    I am about we should all get free ice cream cones with sprinkles on top.
  51. Profile photo of EdiMesic
    EdiMesic Male 18-29
    594 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 2:48 pm
    Madest already said everything I wanted to say.

    My post is hereby obsolete.
  52. Profile photo of Delos
    Delos Male 18-29
    205 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 3:10 pm
    It seems a little silly that people have to take pride in individual attributes..
    gay pride or straight pride... why not just pride? I may not have the healthiest esteem, but I at least base what I am and am not proud of on my on perceptions and expectations, not someone elses..
    noisy people can drat themselves with rose-stems..
  53. Profile photo of slut_etta
    slut_etta Female 50-59
    3773 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 3:21 pm
    can`t we all just get along? life is way too short for all this crap. whatever you like to do in the privacy of your own home with the consenting adult of your choice is your business, not mine. and vice versa.

    so now i`ll put my ball-gag back on and shut the hell up.
  54. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 3:25 pm
    @Delos: I don`t think they`re taking pride in individual attributes. I think they`re taking pride in overcoming adversity, which kinda takes the wind out of the sails of "straight pride" or "white pride", doesn`t it?
  55. Profile photo of IseeingI2I
    IseeingI2I Male 18-29
    271 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 3:39 pm
    i find it monstrous that one can have a shirt that says pride and a bible verse at the same time. this just shows a lack of intellect for other cultures and religions, as the bible clearly states one is to be humble if one is to truly know god. although the just pride shirt is a good idea it does somewhat dilute individuality. i believe pride is ok german pride, italian pride, US pride all are acceptable. but if i had a german pride shirt that said i steal some of polands pride as well that would not be correct. as a individual power white power, black power, etc. stating that one is better than another is not so.

    TL:DR? less intellectual argument:
    people need to get their poo together and enjoy the positives not the negatives
  56. Profile photo of phoneybone
    phoneybone Male 18-29
    1744 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 4:26 pm
    the bible passage may have been a bit much, but love the "straight pride" part
  57. Profile photo of NDLOgan
    NDLOgan Male 30-39
    218 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 4:35 pm
    Madest - you are friggin` awesome!
  58. Profile photo of Slmmhmmr161
    Slmmhmmr161 Male 18-29
    606 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 4:35 pm
    It doesn`t really make sense to me to be "Proud" of something you have no control over, like your sexuality.
  59. Profile photo of duffytoler
    duffytoler Male 40-49
    5196 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 4:44 pm
    Great. My religious crap says I should kill you.
  60. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    I have no problem with "straight pride". I`m gay, and I wouldn`t feel offended by seeing a shirt like that, just as I would hope straight people wouldn`t feel offended by seeing anything labelled "gay pride". There`s nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and celebrating that.

    But as soon as you mix pride in who you are with criticism of who someone else is, as they have done by putting the bible verse on there, that`s a problem.

    Gay people are able to engage in "gay pride" without slandering straight people. Why are these people unable to do the same?
  61. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    @Musuko42-
    If someone were to wear a "straight pride" shirt with an attitude of GENUINE acceptance for other sexual orientations, that would be fine. But honestly, can you imagine a situation where someone would bother wearing a "straight pride" shirt without the ulterior motive of trolling the sh*t out of gay people? Madest already hit the nail on the head in an earlier post.
  62. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:30 pm
    @sbeelz

    I would be glad for them to wear a "straight pride" shirt, whatever their attitude (so long as it doesn`t have an attacking message against someone else, as these ones did)...

    ...so then they experience me leaving them alone and not causing a stink over it or their sexuality.

    Then perhaps they`d get the message that I want them to treat me the same way that I`m treating them.
  63. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:36 pm
    It makes me sick at the people who bash christianity and religion in general and in the same breath would take offense to a straight pride shirt. Madest that kind of comment only furthers anger towards one another. I`m straight, I`m a Christian, but i have nothing against homosexuals. It just irks me when theres a double standard, and while I understand there`s a double standard in gay and straight rights, more and more straight people are being alienated from the cause because of sheer obnoxiousness. If you knew a black person who wore around a black pride shirt everywhere he went, as another race, would that not alienate you? What if a white person wore a white pride shirt? Would that not alienate you? I understand not all homosexuals walk around in rainbow shirts, but think of it like this: if there are 20 little kids, 15 get candy, the other 5 don`t, only fair that they do too! So 10 of the 15 with candy support the 5 with none, but one of the 5 w/o starts wearing "no candy pr
  64. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:42 pm
    @Delos: I don`t think they`re taking pride in individual attributes. I think they`re taking pride in overcoming adversity, which kinda takes the wind out of the sails of "straight pride" or "white pride", doesn`t it?

    No, it doesn`t. You`re changing definitions on an ad hoc basis to suit what you`d like things to mean.

    Group pride, *any* group pride, is about being proud of being in that group, which is based on thinking that being in the group indicates superiority. Otherwise it wouldn`t be something to be proud of, obviously.

    If membership of the group is defined by an achievement, the pride might be legitimate. Nobel Laureate Pride...Medical Doctor Pride.

    If membership of the group is defined by a choice, the pride might be legitimate. Teetotaller Pride...Vegetarian Pride.

    If membership of the group is neither an achievement nor a choice, then the pride is just prejudice. White Pride, Gay Pride, etc
  65. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:43 pm
    ide" shirts, and fighting with the 5 of the 15 with candy who aren`t helping. These 5 are still friends with the other 10, they just don`t believe those 5 deserve candy. Unwarranted i agree, but their belief. Now the other 10 are helping a group of kids with people who find every chance to criticize and argue and shout "discrimination!" at the 5 who aren`t helping. The 10 who are helping wouldn`t really appreciate it.
    TL;DR I`m all for gay rights, but i feel alienated when gays criticize christianity or straights, calling them rednecks. Especially when it`s the ones who are the first to cry foul at anything pro-straight or pro-religion.
  66. Profile photo of Delos
    Delos Male 18-29
    205 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:50 pm
    @jtre:
    A good point, but society has so many groups that are treated unfairly that I don`t see why it has to counter a certain type of prejudice. I see this as "gay people are people too!" Where I`m more interested in "people are people too." I know that this is just a way of chipping away at inequality.. it just seems like an odd way of going about achieving equality, you know?
  67. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:51 pm
    I have no problem with "straight pride". I`m gay, and I wouldn`t feel offended by seeing a shirt like that, just as I would hope straight people wouldn`t feel offended by seeing anything labelled "gay pride". There`s nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and celebrating that.

    I disagree, on two grounds:

    i) I will not define everyone on the basis of whatever single unchosen criterion I`m ordered to consider of paramount importance. To do so is to be irrationally prejudiced. That`s pretty much what irrational prejudice is in the context of judging people.

    I can`t stop you thinking that everyone is their sexual orientation and nothing else, but damned if I`m going to be that bigoted myself.

    ii) Pride stems from a feeling of superiority. If it`s not something you see as being better, it`s not something you see as cause for pride.

    So unchosen group pride is doubly bigotted.
  68. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:53 pm
    Angilion

    "Group pride, *any* group pride, is about being proud of being in that group, which is based on thinking that being in the group indicates superiority."

    Umm, no, that`s not what pride means.

    Pride: a feeling of self-respect and personal worth, satisfaction with your (or another`s) achievements; "he takes pride in his son`s success"

    It doesn`t mean "thinking you`re better than someone else".

    If your misunderstanding of such a simple concept is common, then no wonder there are so many people who get angry at "gay pride".

  69. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:56 pm
    Just to make sure I`m being crystal clear here:

    Yes, I am very explicitly calling anyone and everyone who advocates any unchosen group pride a bigot. Gay pride, black pride, white pride, straight pride, tall pride, short pride, right-handed pride, left-handed pride, ambidestrous pride...any and all such things.

    If you think it`s a good thing to define and judge everyone based on one criterion that no-one has any control over and you think that one such group is superior to the others, then I think you`re a bigot.
  70. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 5:58 pm
    @Angilion

    "If you think it`s a good thing to define and judge everyone based on one criterion that no-one has any control over and you think that one such group is superior to the others, then I think you`re a bigot."

    You`re misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting what "pride" actually means.

    The fact that it DOESN`T mean "feeling superior to others" invalidates your entire argument.
  71. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:03 pm
    Umm, no, that`s not what pride means.

    Yes, it is.

    You are proud of something when you consider it better than the alternatives.

    Consider the example you use: "he takes pride in his son`s success".

    The man in this example considers success to be better than failure. Which is hardly a suprise.

    But even then, you`re still missing the key point - I was explicitly talking about pride in being a member of the "right" group when that group wasn`t defined by achievement or choice. So when you gave an example of pride in achievment, you showed that you haven`t understood at all.
  72. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:06 pm
    You`re misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting what "pride" actually means.

    You`re not even reading the text you`re replying to.

    You stated that everyone is wholly defined by their sexual orientation. (Saturday, November 13, 2010 4:52:46 PM)

    I disagreed.

    That is not "misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting what "pride" actually means."

    It`s disagreeing with your simplistic bigotry.
  73. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:07 pm
    "Yes, it is."

    Find me a dictionary that says it is.
  74. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:07 pm
    Musuko you stated one definition of pride. Others do describe what angillion spoke of. When someone puts gay pride on a shirt or bumper sticker, some feel thats over and beyond sufficient. If you won a spelling bee, you would take pride in your spelling abilities, you wouldnt put it on a shirt.

    It just sounds arrogant.
  75. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:08 pm
    "The man in this example considers success to be better than failure. Which is hardly a suprise."

    Someone else does not have to fail for your success to be a success.

    And the planet could be entirely empty of other human life, and my pride in being gay would remain; because it is my expression in being happy with who I am, and it is NOT a comparison of myself against others, as you seem to think it is.
  76. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:09 pm
    I`ve just noticed something else:

    According to you your own publically stated definition, you regard it as an achievment to not be straight.

    Do you really wonder why I think you`re a bigot?
  77. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:10 pm
    @ShamaziaV2

    "Musuko you stated one definition of pride. Others do describe what angillion spoke of."

    Show me a dictionary that has that definition.

    Otherwise, I could just say that some people define "ShamaziaV2" to mean "prat who talks out of his arse", and declare that a legitimate meaning of that word.
  78. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:13 pm
    "According to you your own publically stated definition, you regard it as an achievment to not be straight."

    No. It`s an achievement to be a happy, well-adjusted, confident, contented, openly gay person.

    It`s nothing to do with what straight people are doing.

    Why do you make everything about other people?
  79. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:14 pm
    I`m still waiting for that dictionary definition.
  80. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:18 pm
    Find me a dictionary that says it is.

    Every one. Including the one you chose.

    You regard being homosexual as an achievement, according to the definition you put forward as the right definition.

    Which means you must regard being heterosexual as a complete failure to achieve homosexuality.

    You, and everyone else, is proud only of things they consider much better than the alternatives. If you prefer tea to coffee, are you proud of being a tea-preferrer? Would you be proud of liking green more than blue?

    You also regard a person`s sexuality orientation as being the sole definition of who they are, according to several of your posts. I find that reprehensible too.
  81. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:18 pm
    @Angilion

    "You stated that everyone is wholly defined by their sexual orientation. (Saturday, November 13, 2010 4:52:46 PM)"

    Quote my exact words where I said that everyone is wholly defined by their sexual orientation.
  82. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:19 pm
    @Angilion

    "Every one. Including the one you chose."

    Show me one then.

    Saying it doesn`t make it so. I am waiting for your evidence.

  83. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:21 pm
    "You, and everyone else, is proud only of things they consider much better than the alternatives."

    I am proud of my accomplishment of managing to crochet a line of stitches without totally messing it up, as I am currently learning how to do it.

    I do not believe that my wonky, sloppy, slow crochet work is better than everyone else`s.

    I am proud of it because it is my own personal accomplishment. It is not a comparison against anyone else`s accomplishment.

    Just as pride in my own sexuality is not a comparison against anyone else`s sexuality.
  84. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:22 pm
    No. It`s an achievement to be a happy, well-adjusted, confident, contented, openly gay person.

    It`s nothing to do with what straight people are doing.

    Why do you make everything about other people?

    I`m not. You are. I`m not the one who defines everyone solely by their sexual orientation and regards having the "right" sexual orientation as a achievement to be proud of, remember? That`s you.

    You`re not talking about being proud of being happy, well-adjusted, confident and contented.

    You can try to disguise your position by throwing some extra stuff on it as camoflauge, but it doesn`t fool me.
  85. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:22 pm
    @Angilion

    "You also regard a person`s sexuality orientation as being the sole definition of who they are, according to several of your posts. I find that reprehensible too."

    Show me where I have said that.
  86. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:23 pm
    @Angilion

    "I`m not the one who defines everyone solely by their sexual orientation and regards having the "right" sexual orientation as a achievement to be proud of, remember? That`s you."

    Again, show me where I have said that.
  87. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:24 pm
    And I am still waiting on that dictionary definition evidence, Angilion.
  88. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:24 pm
    Saying it doesn`t make it so. I am waiting for your evidence.

    I`ve given it.

    I`ve even used *your own chosen words*.

    I`ve explained it.

    You are not waiting for evidence. You`re just ignoring it and repeatedly asking for it again, so you can pretend it isn`t there.
  89. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:25 pm
    "I`ve given it."

    Where?

    "I`ve even used *your own chosen words*."

    Where?

    "I`ve explained it."

    Where?
  90. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:27 pm
    Again, show me where I have said that.

    Why should I do it again?

    You ignored it the last time.

    You will ignore it when I do it again.

    You`re just going to keep on ignoring everything and asking for it it over and over again so that you can pretend it isn`t there.

    That`s an effective tactic on a transient forum like this one.
  91. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:27 pm
    1: Provide a link to a dictionary definition that shows your definition of the word "pride".

    2: Copy and paste the exact wording where you believe I have stated that homosexuality is the "right" sexuality.

    3: Copy and paste the exact wording where you believe I have stated that I consider a person`s sexuality to be the sole definition of who they are.

    You have made these accusations. Back them up.
  92. Profile photo of Satkela
    Satkela Female 18-29
    583 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:28 pm
    @yangying:
    I prefer 2 timothy 2:12...much better verse in my opinion
  93. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:31 pm
    OK ShamaziaV2,
    I`ll ignore the rambling candy analogy because it made no sense and is irrelevant to this post. Yes I do indeed have black friends. I don`t know if they have Black Pride t-shirts. I`ve never seen them wear, but if they did it wouldn`t offend me at all. Black people are still discriminated against today.
    I mock your religion because it commands the simple minded to put a 2000 year old fairy tale written by uneducated imbeciles, who thought the world was flat, ahead of your neighbors and relatives. Here`s a secret, you have a gay or two in your family.
    You and I both won the Earths genetic lottery. We were born white males in a mans world with rules written by white men in a white society. You need to understand how lucky that makes you before you earn the right to attack another. It`s important to be supportive of the minority and makes you a better person.
    PS: Took a peek at your profile, what`s with all the Whitest Kids You Know posts?
  94. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:33 pm
    @Angilion

    I`m still waiting on your evidence.
  95. Profile photo of SomeShoes
    SomeShoes Male 13-17
    2056 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:37 pm
    i agree with the teachers point, but they`re still a$$ holes
  96. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:37 pm
    1) I will say it again - even the definition you quoted matches mine.

    2) I`ve already done that in numerous posts and explained why. This is the only point you`ve made any counter to, so I might address that if you stop repeatedly demanding I do things I`ve already done.

    3) I`ve done it and you`ve replied quoting me doing so. Then claimed I hadn`t. Same old same old. I gave the post details so that anyone who cared can check. You stated that a person`s sexuality is who they are. Not *part* of who they are. *All* of who they are. i.e. the sole definition of who they are.
  97. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36192 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:38 pm
    I don`t think teenagers should have the same rights as adults. Pro Gay or Anti Gay doesn`t matter. At school, concentrate on books. That`s why I favor uniforms, it ends all this kind of poo
  98. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:39 pm
    @Angilion

    I`m still waiting on your evidence.

    No, you aren`t.

    You`re still ignoring it and repeatedly asking for it, so you can pretend I don`t have it. It`s still an effective tactic on your part. An immoral and unpleasant tactic, but an effective one.
  99. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:43 pm
    "You`re still ignoring it and repeatedly asking for it, so you can pretend I don`t have it."

    I`m not ignoring it. You haven`t provided it.

    I asked you to show your evidence. Why will you not do so?
  100. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:44 pm
    "1) I will say it again - even the definition you quoted matches mine."

    It does not. Being proud of one`s success does not require someone else to fail. Not everything is a zero-sum equation.
  101. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:44 pm
    "2) I`ve already done that in numerous posts and explained why. This is the only point you`ve made any counter to, so I might address that if you stop repeatedly demanding I do things I`ve already done."

    I have asked you to quote my exact wording. You have not done so.
  102. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:45 pm
    "3) I`ve done it and you`ve replied quoting me doing so. Then claimed I hadn`t. Same old same old. I gave the post details so that anyone who cared can check. You stated that a person`s sexuality is who they are. Not *part* of who they are. *All* of who they are. i.e. the sole definition of who they are."

    I have asked you to quote my exact wording. You have not done so.
  103. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:46 pm
    I don`t think teenagers should have the same rights as adults. Pro Gay or Anti Gay doesn`t matter. At school, concentrate on books. That`s why I favor uniforms, it ends all this kind of poo

    Same here, although I wouldn`t say "teenagers" and "adults" as some teenagers are adults.

    The point stands even without the distinction between adults and legal minors. Adults are usually denied a free choice in clothing at work and are very often restricted to a uniform.
  104. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:46 pm
    To sum up, Angilion:

    You said earlier that you are a small field mouse with a head made out of melon seeds, and you spend every evening playing the bassoon at the bottom of the ocean with Michael Gambon and sixteen Welsh rugby players.

    That`s what you said.
  105. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:48 pm
    It does not. Being proud of one`s success does not require someone else to fail. Not everything is a zero-sum equation.

    Since you`re the only person talking about requiring someone else to fail, why are you saying that it is my definition of pride? You`re the only person talking about it - far from being my definition, it has nothing to do with me.
  106. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:51 pm
    To sum up, Angilion:

    You said earlier that you are a small field mouse with a head made out of melon seeds, and you spend every evening playing the bassoon at the bottom of the ocean with Michael Gambon and sixteen Welsh rugby players.

    That`s what you said.

    Post the date and time of the post in which I said that.

    You can`t, because I didn`t say that.

    Explain why the arguments I am making lead to the conclusion that I am a small field mouse, etc.

    You can`t, because they don`t.

    So the comparison is invalid and your argument, though well written and cute, fails.
  107. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:53 pm
    "Since you`re the only person talking about requiring someone else to fail, why are you saying that it is my definition of pride? You`re the only person talking about it - far from being my definition, it has nothing to do with me."

    Because it links into your statement that being proud of being gay means you`re proud NOT to be straight. It is not the same thing.

    If heterosexuality didn`t exist, one could still be proud of being homosexual; pride in one thing does not require an alternative to feel superior to. I am proud of life on this planet and all that it is, despite there being no life elsewhere to compare it to.
  108. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:54 pm
    "Post the date and time of the post in which I said that."

    I already did. You just ignored it.
  109. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:54 pm
    "You can`t, because I didn`t say that."

    Yes you did. I already showed you proof. Stop ignoring it.
  110. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:55 pm
    "Explain why the arguments I am making lead to the conclusion that I am a small field mouse, etc."

    I don`t need to. I already did.
  111. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:55 pm
    "I mock your religion because it commands the simple minded to put a 2000 year old fairy tale written by uneducated imbeciles, who thought the world was flat, ahead of your neighbors and relatives. " madest

    So you mock something you know very little or nothing about. The foundation of Christianity is "love your neighbor as yourself". Atheism has no comparable belief.

    Be honest, you mock religion for the same reason homophobes mock GLBTQ people - so you can feel good about yourself at the expense of others.

    Atheism is a prejudice just like homophobia, and you are no better than any homophobe, including the kids wearing the straight pride/death penalty for gays t-shirts.

    As a gay Christian, I`m telling you flat out - your prejudice against religious people is identical to homophobia.
  112. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:55 pm
    "You can`t, because they don`t."

    Yes they do. I even used your own words.
  113. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:57 pm
    @Angilion

    What exactly is behind your inability or reluctance to provide a weblink to a dictionary definition, or a copy-pasted quote of my own words?

    I am handing you the exact method you need to prove your points and win your argument against me. Why don`t you take it?
  114. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 6:59 pm
    "So you mock something you know very little or nothing about. The foundation of Christianity is "love your neighbor as yourself". Atheism has no comparable belief."

    The foundation of Christianity is the belief that Jesus Christ is the son of god.

    Hence the name of the religion itself.

    Otherwise you`d think it`d be called Loveianity.
  115. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:00 pm
    I`m not ignoring it. You haven`t provided it.

    I asked you to show your evidence. Why will you not do so?

    I have, as you know. Your tactic of repeatedly asking for it in order to give the impression that it doesn`t exist is still an effective one.

    I`m willing to keep repeating this forever, but it must be boring the hell out of anyone else and it has become spam.

    Hmm...maybe you`re thinking that if we keep repeating the same pattern over and over again it will force the posts with actual content down a few pages so that hardly anyone will see them. That would be a clever move as it would save you the trouble of trying to come up with a counter-argument.

    You did make a point in one post, but it`s been drowned in this rather tiresome "yes I did no you didn`t" charade, along with the posts of mine that contained all my points, now languishing several pages back. So you`ve won overall - congratulations.
  116. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:01 pm
    @Heureux

    Incidentally, my own personal beef with your religion isn`t the religion itself.

    It`s what some people do with it.

    I`m sure you look at people like Fred Phelps and agree with me?
  117. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:04 pm
    @Angilion

    A link to a dictionary definition, and a couple of quotes showing my actual wording.

    That`s all you need to prove yourself right. You`ve spent more time arguing "I`ve already done it" than you`d need to spend actually doing it.
  118. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:06 pm
    @Angilion

    So here`s the throw down, the ultimatum:

    For your very next post on here, you could provide the evidence (weblink, direct quotes) and prove yourself right and win the argument.

    Or, you can not do that, and I can go to bed.

    Pick.
  119. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:06 pm
    @Angilion

    What exactly is behind your inability or reluctance to provide a weblink to a dictionary definition, or a copy-pasted quote of my own words?

    I am handing you the exact method you need to prove your points and win your argument against me. Why don`t you take it?

    You have already drowned my points in this deluge of spam we`ve generated between us in this neat little sidetrack.

    You know as well as I do that I cannot provide a link to the definition of pride THAT YOU HAVE MADE UP AND CLAIMED IS MINE.

    You also know as well as I do that I have posted both precise references to the post from you and detailed explanations. References to the post matter because (a) the posts can`t be edited and (b) they show context.

    @Angilion

    What exactly is behind your inability or reluctance to provide a weblink to a dictionary definition, or a copy-pasted quote of my own words?

    who you are
    <
  120. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:07 pm
    "You know as well as I do that I cannot provide a link to the definition of pride THAT YOU HAVE MADE UP AND CLAIMED IS MINE."

    So you cannot provide a link to that definition, despite claiming that every dictionary carries that definition?

    Point to me.
  121. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:09 pm
    "You also know as well as I do that I have posted both precise references to the post from you and detailed explanations."

    I honestly, genuinely, do not know that. I have not seen you directly quote my own words to back up your accusations against me.
  122. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:09 pm
    I`ve just done it again. Your ultimatum is met again.

    Now acknowledge I`ve won the argument.

    You won`t, of course.

    You`ll just carry on doing what you`ve been doing, because your repeated demands are just a tool.
  123. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:10 pm
    @Angilion.

    As you may not have seen my ultimatum (see below your last post) before you made your post, I`ll allow you one last post:

    Provide the evidence as I have requested (weblink, direct quotes), or I`m off to bed.
  124. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:10 pm
    "I`ve just done it again. Your ultimatum is met again."

    You have not provided direct quotes of my own words, as I have requested.
  125. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:11 pm
    Be honest, you mock religion for the same reason homophobes mock GLBTQ people - so you can feel good about yourself at the expense of others.
    ---------------
    That crazy lady a few posts ago Colleen Thomas, believes the US military has made a deal with the "reptilian controlled greys" in exchange for UFO technology. Her belief is as sure as Christians but shhhh, she only hates things that don`t exist. How come Christians eat at Red Lobster? Why don`t preachers rail from the pulpit against it? They somehow got over the shell fish thing but can`t get over the gay hate. That`s shameful because many times it`s the heterosexual Christian who creates the homosexual child that`s been brought up to think they are inferior. You Heureux are as bat sh*t crazy as that lady if you think the Bible is the word of God. In fact if there was a God wouldn`t he be disappointed in his "child" if he didn`t use that magnificent mind to question long held "truths
  126. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:11 pm
    "You know as well as I do that I cannot provide a link to the definition of pride THAT YOU HAVE MADE UP AND CLAIMED IS MINE."

    So you cannot provide a link to that definition, despite claiming that every dictionary carries that definition?

    Point to me.

    You have made up a definition, claimed it was my definition, claimed the onus is on me to prove the definition (that you made up, remember, not me) and now you`re claiming a point because I`ve pointed out that you made the definition up and it has nothing to do with me at all.

    I am fascinated by your bare-faced cheek. It`s...weird.
  127. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:15 pm
    You have not provided direct quotes of my own words, as I have requested.

    yes, I have.

    Here they are again.

    who you are

    Of course they are meaningless without context, but you`ve spent dozens of posts demanding that I ignore context and quote only the words.

    I have provided references to the post itself, so anyone who cares can see exactly what you said and in what context. But you have said, over and over again, that is pointless.

    On the vague chance that anyone else cares, here it is again:

    Saturday, November 13, 2010 4:52:46 PM
  128. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:15 pm
    Hey Angilion & Musuko42, That`s two pages of semantics arguing. Get over it. It`s not interesting to anybody but you two. Stop.
  129. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:17 pm
    "You have made up a definition, claimed it was my definition, claimed the onus is on me to prove the definition"

    Angilion: Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:03:19 PM

    "You are proud of something when you consider it better than the alternatives."

    ShamaziaV2: Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:07:52 PM

    "Musuko you stated one definition of pride. Others do describe what angillion spoke of."

    Musuko42: Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:10:22 PM

    "Show me a dictionary that has that definition."

    Angilion: Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:18:15 PM

    "Every one. Including the one you chose."
  130. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:19 pm
    "who you are"

    That`s it? From those three words you accuse me of stating that I believe that your sexuality is the SOLE definition of who you? From those three words you accuse me of stating that homosexuality is the "right" sexuality?

    Really?!

    Christ. I`d best not say the words "where you are", otherwise you`ll accuse me of supporting experimentation on animals and the destruction of the world`s coral reefs!
  131. Profile photo of Scotchy
    Scotchy Male 18-29
    592 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:22 pm
    There are many definitions. What your all forgetting is the context its used in.

    Pride
  132. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:22 pm
    Well, Angilion, it`s been fun. But I`m afraid my cat is giving me grumpy looks and wants me to go to bed so he can sleep on my feet.

    I need to find room in my bed for your goat, because I`m sure I`ve got it.

    And you`ve got to get to the bottom of the ocean. Michael Gambon and those Welsh rugby players are waiting for you, and you`re late.

    Goodnight. xxx
  133. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:22 pm
    Musuko42...you have succeeded in drowning the inconvenient points I made. They`re half a dozen pages back now, so hardly anyone is ever going to see them. You may as well go to bed - you`ve won.

    If you want to carry on pretending that I need to provide links to definitions that you`ve made up and falsely attributed to me, go ahead.

    If you want to carry on pretending that a reference to a post that can`t be deleted or edited doesn`t count for anything when it comes to the content of that post, go ahead.

    You`ve already won, by drowning my points, but if you want the last word, go ahead and have it. I`m moving on to anyone who has any point.
  134. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:29 pm
    That`s it? From those three words you accuse me of stating that I believe that your sexuality is the SOLE definition of who you? From those three words you accuse me of stating that homosexuality is the "right" sexuality?

    Obviously not, but that won`t stop you claiming that`s what I`ve done.

    Since you`ve drowned your own posts as well as mine, hardly anyone would have seen you stating that a person`s sexual orientation is who they are (i.e. every person is SOLELY defined by their sexual orientation) and that it is a achievement worthy of pride to not be heterosexual. Which only makes sense if you think that homosexuality is the right sexual orientation. Although I didn`t say you stated that, so you`re wrong about that too. Statements you have made are meaningless unless you believe it, but that`s not the same thing.
  135. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:30 pm
    Hey Angilion & Musuko42, That`s two pages of semantics arguing. Get over it. It`s not interesting to anybody but you two. Stop.

    It isn`t interesting to me either. It was a diversion that I was gullible enough to fall for.
  136. Profile photo of pjonkml
    pjonkml Female 18-29
    42 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:32 pm
    I know it`d suck to see them with their straight pride shirts walking the halls. But I`d just have to suck it up because I`d want to be able to wear my gay pride paraphernalia without any problems.

    I think people tend to victimize ourselves too much. They wear their shirts to go against what gay students believe. As long as the gay students are allowed to showcase their pride the way their straight peers are, I see no real issue.

    Yes, we are a minority group, but we can`t expect equal rights if we cry when someone is doing the same things we are doing.
  137. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:38 pm
    The foundation of Christianity is "love your neighbor as yourself".

    Rubbish. The foundations of Christianity are:

    i) Faith in the existence of the Abrahamic god as sole god and creator.

    ii) Faith that the man now generally known as `Jesus` was at the very least a messenger from that god.

    Anything and everything else, whether "love thy neighbour" or "burn the witches", is topping. Topping that each Christian picks and chooses parts from like a gigantic rummage sale.

    Atheism is a prejudice just like homophobia, and you are no better than any homophobe

    You can`t write that and expect to be taken seriously.
  138. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 7:45 pm
    As long as the gay students are allowed to showcase their pride the way their straight peers are, I see no real issue.

    I think that the inevitable conflict and promotion of bigotry is a real issue. It always is with group pride when membership of the group is neither an achievement nor a choice.
  139. Profile photo of madcherries
    madcherries Female 18-29
    179 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:06 pm
    Imagine no religion...

    Man, how nice would that be?

    Let people be who they want to be.
    I don`t disagree with the students rights to make the statements they want to make, but I find it sad that they had parents who were bigoted enough to teach them that calling for death to homosexuals was a-okay.

    F that.
    We only get one life on this earth. One, only one. No one should be insulted for the choices the chose to make with their life so long as they are not hurting anyone else.

    What a BS situation.
  140. Profile photo of LastJuggalo
    LastJuggalo Female 18-29
    212 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:08 pm
    @pjonkml

    Amen.
  141. Profile photo of moefreak
    moefreak Female 18-29
    1963 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:09 pm
    Wearing a "straight pride" t-shirt is just as wrong as wearing a "white pride" t-shirt. When an oppressed minority showcases pride, they are saying "Even though you think that we are inferior, I am proud to be what I am". When the group with power showcases pride, they are essentially saying "We deserve to have all of this privilege, because your group is inferior".
  142. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:24 pm
    Moefreak:

    Why do you make that distinction?

    How do you define who you think is right to be proud of being in a group without any choice or achievement and who is wrong to do so?

    How do you define when that situation changes? Say, for example, gay pride succeeds hugely and most people believe that it`s better to be gay than straight and homosexuals become a dominant minority as a result. Would it still be right because they`re still a minority? If not, how could you tell when it stopped being right and became wrong?
  143. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:43 pm
    As for power...here`s an example of another reason why your group-based thinking is an imperfect match for reality.

    A person, call them Jonathon, is from a wealthy family and combines high intelligence with beauty and every advantage conferred by wealth and social status. He went to excellent private schools, then on to Eton and Oxford, then into industry at a high level, from which he rose rapidly. He`s now CEO of a multinational and paid £5M a year plus extras.

    Another person, let`s call then Wayne, is from a poor family in a run-down estate in the worst part of a bad city. He had far more education in avoiding getting beaten or stabbed than in anything at school. He`s essentially uneducated, not even really literate. After years on the dole, he gets a job paying minimum wage cleaning toilets at one of the sites owned by Jonathon`s company.

    Jonathon is gay. Wayne is straight.

    So...Wayne is all-powerful and Jonathon is oppressed, right?
  144. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:45 pm
    Madest
    If you read the example about the kids with candy, you would know it is relevant to my argument. I was simply stating that when gays openly speak against religion, or expect a double standard from straights, it can alienate religious or straight people in support of gay rights.

    Can we agree on this?

    Discrimination against blacks today is almost purely personal, as blacks now have equal rights, and in some cases are awarded a double standard. I can honestly say i would feel a little uncomfortable if i saw someone wearing a black pride shirt, but would also find it understandable if someone was uncomfortable with a white pride shirt. Many times there has been controversy involiving whites and the rebel flag or "southern pride".

    You saying that about Christianity is like saying modern Muslims are all about "killing infidels".

    also, is that a genuine question about WKUK? orrr..?
  145. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:51 pm
    ALSO @Musuko

    http://www.merriam -webster.com/ dictionary/pride
  146. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:54 pm
    pjonkml
    Thats what i`ve been saying, but of course, if you`re straight, not speaking completely positively about gay rights, you`re ignorant.
  147. Profile photo of Cajun247
    Cajun247 Male 18-29
    10722 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 8:56 pm
    I don`t agree with the "Leviticus" quote. Those guys fit Takei`s definition of d-bags. There`s nothing wrong with pride just don`t ask for anyone else`s death.
  148. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 9:32 pm
    no right to free speech for high school students whose "free speech" is disruptive to school.

    I mean, a student was disciplined by his school for holding a sign at a school sponsored parade - off school grounds - that read "Bong Hits for Jesus." The U.S. Supreme Court upheld his discipline, ruling that students may not express statements disruptive to an orderly learning environment.

    You can`t reference murdering homosexuals on a t-shirt in high school. I`m ok with that.
  149. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 9:35 pm
    "and in some cases are awarded a double standard."

    Yeah, because as the evidence shows, if there is one American demographic ensured fair treatment by society and the government, it is black people. Ooooooookkkkk.
  150. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 9:40 pm
    Really? I said today, not in history. You`re really gonna say theres never a double standard? And that for the most part blacks aren`t treated fairly?
  151. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 9:40 pm
    "Discrimination against blacks today is almost purely personal"

    This is a ridiculous statement, as it seeks to deny institutional racism and blame it all on bad individuals. As if the disparities in both income and incarceration rates between blacks and whites are only the result of "purely personal" reasons.
  152. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 9:42 pm
    "Really? I said today, not in history. You`re really gonna say theres never a double standard? And that for the most part blacks aren`t treated fairly?"

    Blacks are statistically more likely to be incarcerated in their lifetime. Is it that black people are more prone to crime, or is there some other societal pressure at work that leads blacks - statistically more likely to be impoverished - to wind up arrested and convicted more often.
  153. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 9:43 pm
    That isn`t from todays government or society. It`s the repercussions of past events.
  154. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 9:48 pm
    I`m sorry what "societal pressure" would that be jerry?
  155. Profile photo of Buck176
    Buck176 Male 30-39
    379 posts
    November 13, 2010 at 10:01 pm
    Goaliejerry, YOu are right about one thing. Institutional racism exists. Affirmative action ensured that Caucasian males were discriminated against by law. It`s is really hard to argue that blacks are discriminated against when groups like NAACP and the AAL make sure everyone walks on eggshells, but a student tries to start a Caucasian group on a college campus and she gets called a racist.
  156. Profile photo of kittehdee29
    kittehdee29 Female 18-29
    803 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 12:18 am
    @Nidonemo, to answer your question "Are you happy with your self, regardless if your deity tells you to do this or not? What would make you feel happy, regardless of your deity`s wants/commands?":

    A lot of the religious hypocrites that I know (the ones that act like these kids, not ALL religious people I know, just to clarify) are indeed happy with themselves because they feel like they`re fulfilling God`s word of carrying out the Gospel, making it known that are sinners, just in case they didn`t know this before, and that they should repent for their sins. It doesn`t matter if you try to tell them to think for themselves and their own happiness, because their happiness comes in the form of making God happy.


    Seriously. Like I said, not all religious people think like that, but the ones that act like these kids do.

  157. Profile photo of Student_Law
    Student_Law Male 30-39
    1010 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 12:22 am
    I guess "white pride" would be just as acceptable then... i mean, it`s just like your opinion, man...
  158. Profile photo of jbwhite
    jbwhite Male 18-29
    1292 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 2:42 am
    you guys need to chill, we`ve all got our over the top opinions because we`re all a bunch of hot-headed idiots, so in a sense we are all the same.

    now let`s smoke some pot and coexist motherdraters.
  159. Profile photo of Djarum
    Djarum Male 18-29
    307 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 3:07 am
    Sure it wasn`t an ironic hipster tee?
  160. Profile photo of mindy89
    mindy89 Female 18-29
    8 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 4:20 am
    Personally, I think it`s important to allow teens to be able to have free speech. If it were just the front side of the shirts that say "Straight Pride," as a school official, I would completely allow it. Allow their peers the chance to argue against their ideas and perhaps change some more minds while they`re still malleable. However, the Bible verse is far too over the top. If the kids want to cite in their argument for why they are against homosexuality, that`s perfectly fine, but putting it in writing like that, in my mind, not only constitutes a threat to gay, etc. teens in the school, but also invites retaliatory violence against the children who wore the shirts. It is important to allow children the ability to refine their critical thinking and persuasive skills, but it is just as important to ensure the safety of the students.
  161. Profile photo of pinksocks
    pinksocks Female 18-29
    113 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 5:49 am
    @jbwhite, nicely said.
  162. Profile photo of trippyhippy9
    trippyhippy9 Male 18-29
    559 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 6:02 am
    I think the administration did a wonderful job handling that.
  163. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 6:13 am
    @ Angillion, Masuko, and Delos: Looks like we`re all right. End of conversation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_pride
  164. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36192 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 6:14 am
    And the winner of the `Mr. Hanky` award goes to goaliejerry for this hot, steaming mess.

    "Blacks are statistically more likely to be incarcerated in their lifetime. Is it that black people are more prone to crime, or is there some other societal pressure at work that leads blacks - statistically more likely to be impoverished - to wind up arrested and convicted more often. "

    So quick to find excuses for behavior instead of letting the individual take personal responsability for personal behavior. You don`t see criminals.... You see Victims. Touching.

    That seems to be the "American Way" now. Suing McDonalds for being fat and pointing the finger of blame always away from themselves.

    I love America. But I`m not overly fond of Americans.
  165. Profile photo of bram
    bram Male 18-29
    577 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 6:41 am
    At my high school they wouldn`t have even made them cover up the bible verse, so I feel like this is progress.

    In fact, kids started wearing shirts like that to my high school, the year after I graduated. They had stickers on their trucks, too. The whole area was covered with ati-gay stuff for awhile. Kinda freaked me out and disgusted me the first time I came home from college. I hadn`t realized just how redneck my town was. It was on the news at the time.
  166. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 7:22 am
    ShamaziaV2, I read the candy analogy again and came to the same conclusion. It was stupid and doesn`t apply because kids aren`t born with or without candy, duhhhh. Now go read my response again and study harder in school and stop worrying about blacks and gays, they don`t adversely affect your life.
  167. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 7:23 am
    Angillion said: "So...Wayne is all-powerful and Jonathon is oppressed, right?"

    I suppose you are assuming that Jonathan was never bullied for being gay. In a perfect world, you would`ve made a point, but, because we don`t, you didn`t.
  168. Profile photo of PinkHomicide
    PinkHomicide Female 18-29
    355 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 7:55 am
    I`m really impressed at how well the school handled it. My old high school would have jumped at the chance to blow it out of proportion and suspend somebody.
  169. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3275 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 8:20 am
    The straight pride shirt by itself is OK. A Bible passage on the back saying that homosexuality is wrong, is borderline OK. Anything on a shirt that calls for the death of any group of people is bullying.
  170. Profile photo of Musuko42
    Musuko42 Male 18-29
    2850 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 8:41 am
    Hey Angilion, how was your evening under the ocean? :)
  171. Profile photo of CapnAwesome
    CapnAwesome Male 18-29
    236 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 10:35 am
    This school did an amazing job of handling this, I`m proud of us americans
  172. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 1:00 pm
    Madest, technically in the US you aren`t allowed to marry when you`re born, so your argument about that is invalid. But that example wasn`t about being born with the right, just having it.

    Also, saying my study is inadequate doesn`t make a point for your side. Maybe you should study how to form an argument.

    Gay rights are a huge issue in my country, and my president is black. So i would say that`s more than enough reason to be worried about these issues. I know theres people other than straight white males in my country.
  173. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 1:36 pm
    I suppose you are assuming that Jonathan was never bullied for being gay.

    You can suppose what you please, but doing so won`t make it true. The assumptions that *you* make have nothing to do with me, so don`t pretend they`re my assumptions.

    You`re actually arguing that a person who has has a massive advantage in life and is massively successful is oppressed and a person who has a massive disadvantage in life and is lucky to have a job cleaning toilets at the bottom end of the company the first person runs is hugely powerful.

    You make your ludicrous argument on the basis that the powerful, wealthy, charming, intelligent, well educated person *might* have been bullied.

    The powerless, poor, uneducated person definitely was bullied, but you ignore that because it doesn`t fit in with the incredibly narrow-minded stereotyping that you are so desperate to believe is all of reality.
  174. Profile photo of pyrrhios
    pyrrhios Male 30-39
    185 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 2:25 pm
    The administration dealt with the situation correctly.
  175. Profile photo of ChickODee
    ChickODee Female 18-29
    152 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 2:37 pm
    Hm, I`m surprised at how well they handles this.
    I`m gay, and I have no problem with people wearing "straight pride" shirts, specially if there`s gay and bi pride shirts, (Hell, let`s make some pan pride shirts while we`re at it!)
    But the death to homosexuals on the back is a bit much. Wishing death upon someone no matter what race/religion/orientation etc, isn`t appropriate to have out in the open, on the back of a tshirt. That`s stuff you keep to yourself on converse amongst your friends about :/
  176. Profile photo of DamienLike
    DamienLike Male 13-17
    705 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 3:42 pm
    Did that teacher just say you have to hold your opinion that Gays should be put to death?
  177. Profile photo of ROK9
    ROK9 Male 18-29
    1834 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 4:40 pm
    damn what the hell is wrong with people. let gays be gays and straights be straight
  178. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 6:05 pm
    Also, saying my study is inadequate doesn`t make a point for your side. Maybe you should study how to form an argument.
    --------
    Again dude you let that ignorance shine. First of all you didn`t provide a "study". What you gave was something called an analogy. It was horrible as I explained last time. Nothing you say about people and candy could compare to racism or homophobia. In fact going back and forth with you over this is clearly a waste of my time. Another thing, just because Obama was elected president doesn`t mean racism magically disappeared. Nor does institutionalized homophobia only encompass Gay marriage. The world is full of hate and stupid people like you that support it. Go to church and pray your overlord doesn`t fry your dumb ass for all eternity.
  179. Profile photo of Aerfy
    Aerfy Male 18-29
    232 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 8:09 pm
    People who quote the bible in saying Gays and what-not should be killed should go back and read their own damn book.
    `Forgive thy neighbor` and `Turn the other cheek` are up there a lot more. So does `Thou shalt not kill`
  180. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 9:09 pm
    People who quote the bible in saying Gays and what-not should be killed should go back and read their own damn book.

    Better yet, they should try to find out what was actually written in it, before it was translated and interpreted several times.

    I can (and have, in several threads) argued that there isn`t any scriptural reason for a Christian to be opposed to homosexuality. Not that they should ignore their bible, but that *it`s not really in their bible*.

    I`ll do it again if anyone cares.

    `Forgive thy neighbor` and `Turn the other cheek` are up there a lot more.

    More importantly from a Christian POV, that sort of thing was the teachings of Jesus himself. Who said nothing at all about homosexuality. If it didn`t matter to the Christ, why should it matter to Christians?

    So does `Thou shalt not kill`

    That`s not really in the bible. It`s yet another mistranslation.
  181. Profile photo of Moscow17
    Moscow17 Male 13-17
    36 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 9:19 pm
    I think the school made the right decision, "Straight Pride" shirts just as approprate as "Gay Pride" shirts. The violent Bible verse, however, was innaproprate. Encouraging violence in schools, in any form, is unacceptable.
  182. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 9:43 pm
    Angillion said: "The powerless, poor, uneducated person definitely was bullied, but you ignore that because it doesn`t fit in with the incredibly narrow-minded stereotyping that you are so desperate to believe is all of reality."

    ..um....no...that`s usually the bully.
  183. Profile photo of Isafan
    Isafan Male 18-29
    243 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    Lol

    Religion.

    Lol

    Believing in something that will never be proven or seen with your own eyes.

    Lol.

    Religion.
  184. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 10:07 pm
    @ Isafan: Isn`t the opposite of religion Believing in something that will never be proven or seen with your own eyes? I agree with you to a point, but in all fairness, doesn`t science still relyy in some cases on theory? Just sayin`...
  185. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 10:21 pm
    ..um....no...that`s usually the bully.

    And also the victims.

    I would say that you`re clutching at straws to prop up your extreme stereotyping, but you`re not even anywhere near the straws.

    You`re arguing that a hugely disadvantaged person who is lucky to get a job cleaning toilets is hugely powerful and the CEO of the company who owns the building the toilets are in is oppressed.

    You`re so far away from the straws you`re grasping at that you couldn`t even see them with a telescope.
  186. Profile photo of bamfaber09
    bamfaber09 Male 18-29
    28 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 10:24 pm
    Now i know better than to get into an argument about religion, but how about just be proud of who you are, let others have pride in who they are, and don`t kill others for their beliefs...simple enough right?
  187. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 14, 2010 at 10:36 pm
    @ Isafan: Isn`t the opposite of religion Believing in something that will never be proven or seen with your own eyes? I agree with you to a point, but in all fairness, doesn`t science still relyy in some cases on theory? Just sayin`...

    Science always relies on theories.

    There are massive differences between theory and faith:

    Scientists will try to prove theories wrong, including their own theories. Repeatedly.

    Even if a million people have tried to prove a theory wrong a billion times in different ways and every attempt fails to disprove the theory - every attempt, every time - it`s still a theory.

    But if any evidence goes against a theory, the theory is wrong and will be rewritten or discarded.

    Right now, physicists are ready to bin lifetimes of work if the LHC doesn`t find a Higg`s particle.

    Theory is completely different to faith, although Isafan was over-stating their case.
  188. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    November 15, 2010 at 3:21 am
    WTF starting a facebook page stop being a big pussy and shove their T-shirt up their ass!
  189. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 15, 2010 at 8:14 am
    Angillion said: "You`re arguing that a hugely disadvantaged person who is lucky to get a job cleaning toilets is hugely powerful and the CEO of the company who owns the building the toilets are in is oppressed."

    No...I`m arguing that the CEO may have overcome some form of oppression. You presented a scenario where the gay CEO was never bullied, and I stated that that scenario was more likely in a perfect world. We don`t live in a perfect world, so why don`t you try coming p with a more realistic scenarion, like the gay guy becoming a powerful CEO despite the fact he was bullied.
  190. Profile photo of meepmaker
    meepmaker Male 30-39
    6694 posts
    November 15, 2010 at 12:04 pm
    I have seen shirts that are a lot worse than that. Im just sayin.
  191. Profile photo of startech
    startech Male 30-39
    235 posts
    November 15, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    "WTF starting a facebook page stop being a big pussy and shove their T-shirt up their ass!"

    Ummm... they`re GAY (effeminate pussy by nature)
  192. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 15, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    You presented a scenario where the gay CEO was never bullied

    No, I didn`t.

    So your point, which was already beyond ludicrous, becomes even more so because you`re basing it on something that never happened.

    And you`re still arguing that a person from a hugely privileged background who`s the CEO of a multinational company is oppressed and a person from a massively deprived background who cleans the toilets in one of the buildings owned by that company is all-powerful.

    You`re talking insane rubbish because you can`t bear the thought that reality doesn`t have to be and often isn`t as simple as the ridiculous stereotypes you cling so desperately to.
  193. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 16, 2010 at 7:10 am
    @Angillion: No...you`re using a typical conservative tactic of pretending a problem doesn`t exist. Ok, fine...in your world, the powerful CEO was never bullied or had to overcome adversity. Are you happy now? Now, let`s get back to reality. As a whole, the gay population here in the states still faces discrimination and adversity, hence, when they do become a powerful CEO, they have something to be proud of. (or, they`re in the closet)
  194. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 16, 2010 at 7:37 am
    Oh, and one more thing, Angillion. Regardless of how wonderful and supportive his upringing was, the powerful CEO still cannot marry who he wants, so yes, he is oppressed.
  195. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25407 posts
    November 16, 2010 at 1:33 pm
    meh,...
  196. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 16, 2010 at 4:51 pm
    You can make up any lies you like and pretend I said them, jtrebowski.

    You`ll just be showing everyone what kind of person you are.

    You won`t be proving that the hugely privileged CEO of a multinational is oppressed and the massively deprived toilet cleaner at one of that CEO`s buildings is hugely powerful.

    That`s what you`re claiming and it is still obviously drivel.

    You`re clinging desperately to an extremely simple fantasy world consisting only of two groups, one of which is the oppressor and the other of which is the victim, and in which there are no other relevant factors at all.

    Your fantasy world is not real.

    No amount of making things up and claiming I said them will make it real.
  197. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    November 16, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    Regarding that "one other thing".

    i) You have absolutely no idea what `oppression` means, do you? You`re just using it as a tool, a weapon to silence anyone who disagrees with you about anything.

    ii) Homosexual marriage is legal in various places. I didn`t require my example to be in the USA.
  198. Profile photo of Levyn
    Levyn Male 18-29
    210 posts
    November 16, 2010 at 11:13 pm
    You`re right...I won`t let my gay marriage fawk with your straight divorce.
  199. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 17, 2010 at 3:09 pm
    Angillion...how is the person who is cleaning toilets a "victim"? I don`t remember anyone in your little scenario actively preventing said toilet scrubber from being accepted in his community or getting a job, or marrying who he wants, or anyone bullying him simply because he`s poor. No one oppressed him. It`s just an unfortunate, but simple fact that poor people have a harder time getting ahead and becoming sucessful. I wish that wasn`t true, but anytime we try to lessen that impact, the right-wingers start screaming how we`re "Communists".
    You`re right..things are different in Europe. You live in a more Liberal society, so there`s no point in discussing with you attitudes that are directed towards gay people, because you don`t have a scintilla of an idea how conservatism works to oppress people here in America. They are not considered equal, therefore, regardless of how sucessful they become, they have overcome oppression. Why is that so hard for you
  200. Profile photo of ShamaziaV2
    ShamaziaV2 Male 13-17
    236 posts
    November 17, 2010 at 10:14 pm
    Madest if you remember, you stated that i had poor study habits. Now whether you couldn`t think of something to say and had to twist my words around, or genuinely couldn`t recall your previous statement, it doesn`t win you the argument.

    I never said Obama as president made racism disappear. You said black issues don`t affect me, but having black friends, black peers, and a black president all qualify as legitimate reasons to be concerned over those issues.

    "The world is full of hate and stupid people like you that support it."

    hmm...

    "Go to church and pray your overlord doesn`t fry your dumb ass for all eternity."

    You`re right, there is definitely hate, and DEFINITELY stupid people.
  201. Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    November 18, 2010 at 9:10 am
    arguing about truth in fiction is as ridiculous as living as though the fiction were true.

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