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Date: 11/04/10 04:00 PM

142 Responses to Hello, I`m A Tea Partier

  1. Profile photo of ElMustache
    ElMustache Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 3:24 pm
    Link: Hello, I`m A Tea Partier - A Tea Party Patriot tries to explain how our freedoms are in jeopardy. If only this was a parody, instead of reality.
  2. Profile photo of SPARTAKITTY
    SPARTAKITTY Female 18-29
    2123 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:08 pm
    OH NOES GIVING THE POOR HEALTHCARE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!
  3. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:13 pm
    This is brilliant. Great find ElMustache! Spot on.
  4. Profile photo of Saskuel
    Saskuel Male 13-17
    343 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:14 pm
    What are these things called? I love these things and i cant find any of them.
  5. Profile photo of jak22
    jak22 Male 18-29
    154 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:17 pm
    haha
  6. Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    *Faceclaw* I-am-bored is turning more and more I-am-political every day..

    And on the healthcare, my thoughts are that we cannot afford a program at this time and it shouldnt be forced upon us. If the government wants to make their own healthcare that lower income peoples can afford, go ahead. Just dont force it upon me if I don`t have it and expect me to pay.
  7. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36187 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    They may be stupid, but they won the elections
    so we better get used to being stuck in stupid for a while.
  8. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:21 pm
    Annnnoyyying
  9. Profile photo of jak22
    jak22 Male 18-29
    154 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    i cant wait to see what crakrjack says. haha i love that guy. theres a few people who post on here who are so die hard. its great.
  10. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:30 pm
    And on the healthcare, my thoughts are that we cannot afford a program at this time and it shouldnt be forced upon us. If the government wants to make their own healthcare that lower income peoples can afford, go ahead. Just dont force it upon me if I don`t have it and expect me to pay.
    --------------
    There`s a lot of people like you. Sadly there`s lots of people like you who are uninsured and as a result those of us who are insured need to pick up the tab on your ignorant asses.. ahhh nevermind. You`re too bone headed to understand that our healthcare is the most expensive in the world because dumb asses like you who aren`t insured... baaah!
  11. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:38 pm
    These are called "Text-to-Movies".

    They are made on a site called "Extranormal" and here`s the link for those interested in making their own. It takes a little time but it`s a lot of fun.

    http://www.xtranormal.com/
  12. Profile photo of Lobotomy
    Lobotomy Male 13-17
    495 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 4:48 pm
    Well actually it is a parody, but whatever.
  13. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 5:03 pm
    Ben Franklin f`ed s up when he proposed that damn government-funded fire department and postal service. God damn socialist.
  14. Profile photo of ElijaBlack
    ElijaBlack Male 18-29
    275 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 5:05 pm
    long island iced tea party
  15. Profile photo of monkeyman828
    monkeyman828 Male 18-29
    103 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 5:16 pm
    "Nancy Pelosi is a she devil who hates America"
  16. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 5:26 pm
    Nooo, not a PARODY at all!
    Nope, not a chance! It`s the real deal! 100% actual Tea PArty content! Not the smallest bit of liberal paranoia here! No siree! In fact, all Tea Partiers talk just like that! So obviously it is NOT a parody!
    (It`s also not funny either, btw)
  17. Profile photo of paddyt07
    paddyt07 Male 18-29
    1067 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 5:31 pm
    This is so unnatural.
    Also, the white patches around their eyes make it look like one really big eye D:
  18. Profile photo of ElMustache
    ElMustache Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 5:36 pm
    5cats lives in his own world. You hear tea baggers say sh*t like this all the time!
  19. Profile photo of IseeingI2I
    IseeingI2I Male 18-29
    271 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 5:41 pm
    ugh you had me up to global warming it is not real its a climate shift this happens bout once 40-70 years in 1974 time magazine posted this article a possible catastrophic global cooling ?!? yep watch in 20 years people are gonna look back and say wow we were pretty stupid to think global warming
  20. Profile photo of Kalimata
    Kalimata Male 30-39
    661 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 5:45 pm
    "...bigoted f*ckturd." that line had my wife screaming at me for laughing like an idiot and blocking out her tv show.
  21. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 6:31 pm
    This is so stupid and miss characterizing, Especially when most of the liberals in the `Keynesian` video reacted as if it said Kenyan.
  22. Profile photo of tugsalot
    tugsalot Male 18-29
    8 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 6:37 pm
    I love this
  23. Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 6:44 pm
    "This is so stupid and miss characterizing, Especially when most of the liberals in the `Keynesian` video reacted as if it said Kenyan."

    ^This.
  24. Profile photo of Hightech90
    Hightech90 Male 18-29
    72 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    I don`t get why people hate the tea party. They want limited government, a balanced budget and lower taxes. What is there not to like. If you think they are racist you are dumb. Yes, there have been probably a couple of racists in the parades but the group as a whole shouldn`t be blamed for a select few retards.
  25. Profile photo of IceDragon77
    IceDragon77 Male 18-29
    490 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 7:09 pm
    @Hightech90 Its what society does. They look at the smaller, `dark` or negative side to something and blow it out of proportion and/or take it too far. I mean, look at furries for example. They`re always thought as horn dogs that just live for sex, which from what I have seen isn`t true.
  26. Profile photo of mykunter
    mykunter Male 40-49
    2424 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 8:05 pm
    Wow, this is so delutional... just... wow. The left lost on tuesday for a reason. Americans are pissed.
  27. Profile photo of Thdot
    Thdot Male 30-39
    658 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 8:36 pm
    delutional is not a word.
  28. Profile photo of Eavalos
    Eavalos Male 18-29
    286 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 8:37 pm
    well..... that was a liberal smackdown.
  29. Profile photo of xKrazyKoalax
    xKrazyKoalax Male 18-29
    208 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 8:40 pm
    Obviously this makes good points. And obviously Republicans make good points against democrats at times. Usually though, they just make points about themselves by doing stupid stuff. But, I stand by my decision that the only way I will actively get up and go vote is if Glenn Beck is running. Then I will vote against him.
  30. Profile photo of KeePay
    KeePay Male 18-29
    494 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 8:43 pm
    Six minutes of your typical strawman argument. I no longer care about what point was trying to be made; this whole video is so lazily done and scripted I just stopped two minutes in.
  31. Profile photo of Dolomyte
    Dolomyte Male 18-29
    102 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 8:53 pm
    @madest

    About health care, I understand the more people who are paying into health care spreads the over all risk and therefor reduces the insurance premiums. But I am against the forced purchase of goods I may or may not want or need. I have carried health insurance through my employers most of my life and have never used it, not dental or eye exams or just medical services. When I had the money for the co-pay I did not have the time off to use it, when I had the time off I would not have the money to pay the co-pay. At best it then only works as a safety net for emergency use only which has relatively low risk for the insurance I actually pay for.
  32. Profile photo of Dolomyte
    Dolomyte Male 18-29
    102 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:02 pm
    @madest

    Do you know how Al Capone got his start in Chicago? He sold insurance to shop owners on their wares. He would visit a shop and propose his insurance plan, after the shop owner would tell him to piss off he would send his goons to trash the place and then come back the next day with the proposal again, it is called racketeering. In essence mandatory health insurance is the same, if I do not get the health insurance then I will get fined, if I do not pay the fine I get jailed, if I resist from getting kidnapped at this point then I will most likely be injured in some way and need use of some sort of health insurance. Racketeering is profitable that is why the insurance companies proposed it.
  33. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:05 pm
    Words have actual meanings.
  34. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:23 pm
    Wow, conservatives sound really stupid when liberals are putting words into their mouths.

    I`d love a chance to debate the arrogant dickhole who made this.
  35. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:34 pm
    @ OldOllie
    "Wow, conservatives sound really stupid when they open their mouths."

    Fixed.
  36. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:36 pm
    Lame... it`s like watching MSNBC and listening to one of their hosts.

    Here is an article from a bastion of conservative thought.... and NO, it`s not FOX News.

    So... if it`s such a grand idea and so good for all us, why the lack of support?
  37. Profile photo of xxsmudgexx41
    xxsmudgexx41 Male 18-29
    55 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:38 pm
    it`s not hard to find an uneducated republican like that. they should have had that same conversation with another republican just as educated on the same subjects.
  38. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:52 pm
    nubblins, I seriously doubt that you`ve ever actually listened to a conservative for more than a 5-second, out-of-context soundbite on MSNBC or NPR.
  39. Profile photo of Dolomyte
    Dolomyte Male 18-29
    102 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:53 pm
    Most republicans parrot what they have heard rather than try to reason through the statement to find the kernel of truth. So questioning someone who has not thought about their response, just parroting the originator yields incoherent argument.
  40. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 9:57 pm
    It`s probably because all of the conservatives that I happened to debate with are Glen Beck fanboys and have no idea what Marxism, socialism, and fascism actually are. They DO parrot talking points, just as some Liberals do from MSNBC.
  41. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 10:13 pm
    @nubblins I would wager that your conservative acquaintances know better what Marxism, socialism, and fascism REALLY are than you or the Marxist, socialist, fascist professors that you have learned to parrot.

    Actually, those "isms" are all just minor variations of the same fundamental idea: centralized state control as opposed to individual liberty.

    Actual government ownership of the means of production has been abandoned by most statist regimes as unworkable because a hired bureaucrat will never work as hard as a business owner. Therefore, it`s much more practical to let someone else hold the title and work his ass off to survive, while the government maintains effective control through regulations and skims the lion`s share of the profits through confiscatory taxation.

    Call them what you like, these systems all have one thing in common: a bunch of arrogant pricks think they can run your life better than you can. In your case, they may be right.
  42. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 10:18 pm
    Lib=Arrogant SOP So much more intelligent, and think they think for themselves? LOL

    The right has the Tea Party and the left Drinks the Koolaid and calls themselves intellectuals.

    The have the smartest woman in Hillary and the smartest man in Barack! Do you buy it?

    Do you have the tingle in your leg that Chris Mathews has?
  43. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 10:45 pm
    The title of this dreck should have been, "Hello, I`m a Straw Man." This form of intellectual dishonesty is Obama`s favorite rhetorical ploy. It involves creating a caricature of your opponent, and having him say stupid, preposterous things so that you can then cut him down like a straw man.

    How may times have you heard Obama say, "There are those who say we should [do something really f***ing stupid">," when actually NO ONE has ever said what he claims his opponents are saying?

    Don`t believe it? Here, let me Google that for you.

    You`ll notice that you get 113,000 hits. Just the 1st page returns 4 DIFFERENT examples him using this form of arrogant, condescending bull$#!+.

    The liberal idiot who made this is engaging in nothing more than rhetorical masturbation.
  44. Profile photo of mdg
    mdg Male 30-39
    44 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 10:45 pm
    Both the Dems and Republicans get their kicks by making laws to govern others. Eff off, I say.

    The Libertarian Party is least insane of any of the parties. Too bad most folks seem to take the "anybody but Bush" approach and vote against another party, rather than vote for someone they actually agree with.
  45. Profile photo of SephirothA83
    SephirothA83 Male 18-29
    955 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 10:47 pm
    haha so true, wish this was played last week though
  46. Profile photo of D3rAnG3d
    D3rAnG3d Male 18-29
    1598 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:01 pm
    Kinda funny. Too long though. I got the point during the first minute...
  47. Profile photo of skullgrin
    skullgrin Male 18-29
    937 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:06 pm
    global warming is a lie though
  48. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:09 pm
    The Libertarian Party is least insane of any of the parties.
    Of course, you are correct, mdg. However, after more than 40 years, they have failed to become a viable political force. That`s why I went from being a Libertarian to being a libertarian.

    These days, I`ll wager you`ll find more libertarians at a Tea Party rally than at the Libertarian party`s national convention. I think our best hope is to take over the Republican party, or at least influence it as best we can, because, let`s face it, the Democrats are completely hopeless.

    While my philosophy is libertarian, my politics are most accurately described as anti-Democrat. I`m not particularly thrilled with the Republicans, but I think I`d rather see an office left vacant or occupied by a chimp than filled by a Democrat.
  49. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:14 pm
    "I don`t get why people hate the tea party. They want limited government, a balanced budget and lower taxes. What is there not to like."

    They want limited government - Unless you`re gay, or want an Abortion. Then they want the government in your bed and in your vagina.

    They want to protect the constitution - Except the parts they want to amend, and ignoring and reinterpreting the first amendment.

    They want smaller government. The government is always the wrong thing to run anything. - Except other countries via a government run military.

    They want freedom - Not for untried gitmo detainees though.

    There is nothing in your list of "what the tea party wants", that isn`t a talking point that can be equally (or better) applied to Democrats.
  50. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:26 pm
    They want lower taxes: Barack Obama overall cut taxes, didn`t raise. If you can`t count, you shouldn`t complain when people call tea partiers stupid.

    Overall, the Dems can say everything the Tea Partiers are saying "Constitution! Freeeedoomm!" and in most cases will come out on top.

    When you come out and say "how can you argue against freedom" you`re making a massive strawman out of what you`re titling your beliefs and policies.

    Just cow I stick a name tag on my penis with "Freedom" on it, doesn`t suddenly mean you better go get the lube or else you "hate freedom".

    Also Old Ollie:
    Obviously, a Republican talking point brings up a hundred thousand hits.

    Lets check, most of them are "defer healthcare", and almost all are from a Republican sites regurgitating it.

    That is not a strawman.
  51. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:36 pm
    "Wow, this is so delutional... just... wow. The left lost on tuesday for a reason. Americans are pissed."

    I wholeheartedly agree with this. Pissed however, does not require thought.

    You`re arguing that regaining 260K jobs "isn`t enough", but aren`t remembering at the end of the bush years you lost 4 MILLION in the last year compared to 1.5 M in the first year of Obama because of him slamming on the brakes.

    In 2010, you gained more jobs overall than were created during the Bush years.

    You have smaller government (150K fewer government employees), lower taxes (Tax cuts), and so on and so forth, but you`re not cheering for the facts, you`re cheering for whoever yells the prettiest things at you the loudest, and you`re doing it no matter how much that differs with the reality.
  52. Profile photo of ROK9
    ROK9 Male 18-29
    1834 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:41 pm
    nice, good job
  53. Profile photo of Dolomyte
    Dolomyte Male 18-29
    102 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:44 pm
    @Baalth

    I believe you are wrong in your analysis of what the tea party represents.

    The tea party was a resultant of Ron Paul`s run up to his presidential candidacy 2007-2008. In a large part the republicans ignored him and fronted McCain/Palin instead. Ron Paul is very libertarian and was the Libertarian party candidate for president in 1988.

    The libertarian position is liberal social policy and conservative fiscal policy so you can understand why they do not fit well in either of the major parties.

    Early in 2010 the social conservatives basically hijacked the tea party movement and the liberal media quickly made them appear to be uneducated bigoted racists.

    What a real tea party member is for:
    Social tolerance including gay rights, religious freedom, drug legalization, etc.
    Fiscal responsibility including auditing fed, reduced spending by delegating departments to the states, balanced budgets, sound money, etc.
  54. Profile photo of joosen52
    joosen52 Male 18-29
    206 posts
    November 4, 2010 at 11:56 pm
    too little, too late. *sigh*
  55. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:06 am
    WTF is wrong with you stupid red neck Americans. a social health care is nothing to fear, you are not a communist if you help a man that fell on ice so why would you be communist if you help somebody that need medicine. look at Norway, I receive money from the government, a pc for school, free school, and free health care but Norway isn`t communist and I still have freedom. grow up so that you don`t need a drating teddy bear (or wtf is that thing) to explain the basics in humanity.
  56. Profile photo of JoexBro
    JoexBro Male 18-29
    540 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:14 am
    this is effing brilliant
  57. Profile photo of JoexBro
    JoexBro Male 18-29
    540 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:22 am
    and for all you who think we are all liberals and bashing them, some of us are progressives man, we want to see this country progress into good, but we have all these conservative fools who need to cry like little babies and stomp their feet when a president comes in and tries to work with both sides of the fence, and then we have these tea partiers stupidly educated by glenn beck who want to really destroy this country. We need to all stop living on fear, we are America and we can be effing great so lets effing get there and stop the bullpoo
  58. Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:24 am
    @Svampebob: They`ll not listen, they have been brainwashed to believe that we are all communists desperate to infiltrate the US with our evil socialism. My NHS is old, creaky and has all sorts of problems but I am proud of it and proud that my country has such an altruistic view on care for the less fortunate.
  59. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:30 am
    Yeah - altruistic as long as it`s someone else`s money.
  60. Profile photo of Ozmose
    Ozmose Male 30-39
    448 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:42 am
    Lol, most of these retarded teabaggers that scream about having our freedom taken away, are the same people that religiously support the patriot act. They exist in a state of constant fear and panic, and they`re willing to **** up the entire planet just to maintain their little bubble of delusion.
    To all you idiots out there still support that freedom and privacy destroying pile of **** they actually had the balls to call "The Patriot Act", keep this in mind.

    "Any man who would sacrifice an essential liberty for temporary safety, deserves neither liberty, nor safety". - Benjamin Franklin

  61. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:14 am
    Do you know how Al Capone got his start in Chicago? He sold insurance to shop owners on their wares.
    -------------
    Did you know your insurance premiums go to paper pushers 6 figure salaries? And insurance CEO`s multi-million dollar salaries? And lawyers to figure out ways to drop the insured who have paid their premiums on time? Al Capone lives and republicans want him back in control.
  62. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:54 am
    `yeah altruistic as long as its someone elses money`

    actually we all pay into it to help our fellow man woman and child its a moral obligation to assist those less fortunate than ourselves.
  63. Profile photo of flexus
    flexus Male 30-39
    50 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:56 am
    global warming(climate change) is not a lie skullgrin the scientific evidence is undeniable its the cause they can not agree on
  64. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:36 am
    This Tea Party mentality is spreading across the USA like a virus. It`s actually kind of scary.

    It`s like watching someone I once loved slowly destroy themselves and not being able to do a thing to help them, because they refuse to listen to anyone else.

    My life plan was to move back to the USA once I graduate but if Sarah Palin ever gets elected and this mentality of fear, hatred and bigotry continues to grow I might just stay over here in Europe. They`re a lot saner.
  65. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31766 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:43 am
    when a president comes in and tries to work with both sides of the fence
    That`s RIGHT @JoexBro! Obama pandered to the left, AND the far-left! Both sides were `equally` represented! You are delusional dude, "We won" - B.Obama
  66. Profile photo of Vanadil
    Vanadil Male 18-29
    151 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 6:23 am
    Anytime I think that the UK has a dodgy Goverment I merely have to look at half the U.S and think "Hmmm maybe we`re ok actually :D"
  67. Profile photo of jtrebowski
    jtrebowski Male 40-49
    3348 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:19 am
    Old Ollie said: "The title of this dreck should have been, "Hello, I`m a Straw Man." This form of intellectual dishonesty is Obama`s favorite rhetorical ploy. It involves creating a caricature of your opponent, and having him say stupid, preposterous things so that you can then cut him down like a straw man."

    Stupid and perposterous? Yes. Caricature? Um...I`ll let you decide for yourself:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y&feature=fvw
  68. Profile photo of Oblivia
    Oblivia Female 18-29
    812 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:23 am
    I like this, now can I see the vid from the tea party point of view cause it can`t be serious that they have no real arguments, right?!
  69. Profile photo of mdg
    mdg Male 30-39
    44 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:24 am
    Gotta love all the comments from the idealistic kiddos and our "superior" counterparts in Europe who have it all figured out. Reality will catch up to all of us someday.
  70. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:34 am
    What a real tea party member is for:
    Social tolerance including gay rights, religious freedom, drug legalization, etc.
    Really? THAT`s what the tea party stands for? And here`s me thinking they were a bunch of old white conservative christian far right-wing uber-nationalistic xenophobic exceptionalists.

    Who knew?
  71. Profile photo of kilroy5555
    kilroy5555 Male 30-39
    496 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:55 am
    "When you come out and say "how can you argue against freedom" you`re making a massive strawman out of what you`re titling your beliefs and policies"

    This has been standard Democratic playbook for years, only it`s "how can you argue against tolerance". All our opponents are stupid/ignorant/racist/bigots (pick one or more) so we don`t have to treat opposing ideas seriously as long as we can characterize our opposition as such. Doesn`t feel so great when the tables get turned on you does it, you freedom hating socialist!
  72. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:12 am
    Why conservatives believe stupid S*it.

    And before all you cons whine about Rachel Maddow just watch the tape, and consider that there is *no* equivalence, no parity, between Fox and msnbc, between glen beck and keith olbermann. We Liberals have a crippling need to remain tethered to Objective Reality at all times. It`s our greatest weakness really.
  73. Profile photo of Dolomyte
    Dolomyte Male 18-29
    102 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:37 am
    @Madest

    You just explained what the anti-incumbent revolution is all about. The health care bill was even explained in the video, it was originally proposed by republicans then passed by democrats. They are both working for the best interests of the insurance companies. When the bill hit the house floor Nancy Pelosi said "Well we just have to pass the bill to see what`s in it." I believe the democrats did not talk about the bill openly because of the concessions that were made to get it passed. I firmly believe the health care bill will amount to a racket.

    How about health insurers cannot be run from a for profit corporation, only non-profit corporations. I think that may fix much of the crap we deal with in HMOs.
  74. Profile photo of Heilsquav
    Heilsquav Male 18-29
    21 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:43 am
    Rachel Maddow is the Glenn Beck of liberals. I couldn`t watch the video because she her mannerisms just piss me off.
  75. Profile photo of Dolomyte
    Dolomyte Male 18-29
    102 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:43 am
    @Davymid

    Anyone who seriously talks about freedom and liberty must have a stance of social tolerance. Imposing your beliefs on me or my beliefs on you is the opposite of freedom. If confronted many republican supporters will go to the bible as a source to impose beliefs, as if they are not the active enforcer when they actually are. Confront a libertarian with the views of social tolerance and rights of private property and they will completely agree.
  76. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:48 am
    ...Even though Rachel deals with empirically provable or disprovable *facts*, I get it. And the simple excuse of, "oh I don`t like her personally," AKA Ad Hominem, isn`t going to work here.

  77. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:54 am
    @jtrebowski So, out of 300,000 people you managed to find a few crackpots, and you claim that they represent an entire movement? Fine, then these examples of scintillating brilliance represent all liberals.

    (There`s plenty more out there if you want to keep playing this game.)
  78. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:02 am
    @QueenZira I tried to watch your Rachael Madcow clip -- I really did, but I could only stomach about 30 seconds. I believe I got the gist of her "point" -- that the $200 million per day estimate of the cost of the Obama trip is wrong. Well, what IS the cost? I suspect that when you add up all the costs, the $200 million per day figure is going to be pretty close, and she provided NOTHING to refute it.

    Plus, she`s an insufferable, condescending, arrogant bitch.
  79. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:40 am
    serious question:- Why do Americans think its right that insurance companies make profits out of illness?
  80. Profile photo of Toider
    Toider Male 18-29
    452 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:05 pm
    oh whoops, this isn`t the rational discussion I was hoping it would be...

    *backs away slowly*
  81. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:13 pm
    Thank you Ollie, for providing such a great textbook example of Ad Hominem.

    Furthermore, had you watched further you would`ve seen myriad more examples of conservative talking heads & *elected officials* spouting all kinds of bullpucky completely foreign to folks who live in this universe or on this planet.

    I really don`t know which Bull concern is more fun to contemplate, the nonexistent Palinesque "Death Panels," the whole Birther phenomenon, or the guy with the "Lesbian Vampire" theory.
  82. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:18 pm
    I should also probably add that there is refutation (note, refudiation is not a word) about the Bull India trip concern from the Pentagon itself.

    Fancy that.
  83. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    Whatever the cost OldOllie, It`s just a fraction of the cost of lying about the reasons for war wouldn`t you agree? It`s hypocritical to go off on Obama spending without mentioning Bush`s spending. Every trip Bush took to Iraq was a costly trip. How much did the taxpayers pay for the "Mission Accomplished" extravaganza and the subsequent years of continual war. You republicans have no room to piss and moan about spending.
  84. Profile photo of Kougaiji
    Kougaiji Male 18-29
    604 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:41 pm
    I think any republicans who act like "liberal" is a 4-letter curse word have no place to judge a parody of tebaggers. Same strokes, different folks.
  85. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:42 pm
    Why do Americans think its right that insurance companies make profits out of illness?
    Because if investors cannot make a reasonable return on their investment, they won`t invest. They`ll take their capital somewhere else, and there won`t be ANY insurance.

    But that`s exactly the point, isn`t it: take away the profits and run the insurance companies out of business. Then the government has to step in and take over the entire industry.

    But that`s not "socialist," now, is it?
  86. Profile photo of kilroy5555
    kilroy5555 Male 30-39
    496 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:58 pm
    Is it me or does Maddow look like she`s doing a bad impression of the Daily Show? Oh well, maybe even a pale imitation of Stewart will help boost the old ratings for her.

    Maddow strung together a bunch of soundbites and is trying to paint all conservatives as being mindless monolithic automotons. It`s yet another example of "people who disagree with me don`t think rationally, so I don`t have to consider the substance of their ideas." It`s intellectually dishonest demagoguery from the left in a very piece attempting to paint all conservatives as intellectually dishonest. There`s a reason no one watches this tripe.
  87. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:03 pm
    @ madest Who lied us into war? Oh, I don`t know...could it have been these guys?

    It`s bad enough the way you libs lie about WMD, but the way you like slander and denigrate the crew of the USS Abraham Lincoln is despicable. These brave men and women went on the longest deployment and flew more sorties than any aircraft carrier in history. They were instrumental in defeating the Iraqi military and taking down the government of Saddam Hussein, and yes, they absolutely DID accomplish their mission. The banner was requested by their command officer to honor their them for their service.

    When liberal @$$hole f***tards like you piss on those heroes to try to score cheap political points, I wish I could reach through the screen and slap your ugly face.
  88. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:04 pm
    Democrats weren`t the president OO... Republicans have no credibility because the buck never stops at a republican president.. You guys always find a way to blame the democrats and therefore anything you say is jaded.
  89. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:07 pm
    Perhaps some of the Europeans here can help me, but having a safety net, a government service that provides health care (which everybody pays for and benefits from via taxes) like the NIH, is not socialism. Sweden is socialist, (and for the record, they do quite well for themselves).

    It`s providing for the common good which is *not* possible in a privately owned for profit insurance company. After all, these are people who make money when they *don`t* cover you. They make money when they kick sick kids off the rolls, they make money when they raise premiums so absurdly high that old people can`t pay. They make money when you and the country go into debt because you can`t pay for healthcare.

    I know, I know, it`s just a crazy Liberal idea that no one should have to die because they can`t pay...
  90. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    Anyone who thinks the government handing insurance companies a oligarchy will get them to lower prices has their head in the sand. It will encourage price gouging because everone will have to buy it.
  91. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    Killroy- so I should take seriously Bull concerns and pure fantasies like "Death Panels" and Birtherism? I don`t think so. And these are *not* clever Liberal concoctions of what Cons think (for lack of a better word). They actually believe this cr@p!

    You have audio and visual of actual Bull coming from the horse`s mouth and everytime, *everytime* the Cons here all cry, "That`s not us, we`re not that Stupi!. Honest we aren`t!" The video (and history itself) do not lie gentlemen.
  92. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:20 pm
    Oh and I love that last remark killroy- using ye olde and very common Fox bandwagon fallacy for ratings, right? Well, if you want to go there American Idol outperformed both Fox and Msnbc on the Neilson scorecard, so therefore AI is a more trusted newsource.
  93. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:34 pm
    QueenZira, I guess you missed the story about the FDA rescinding endorsement of Avastin for advanced breast cancer, because it`s too expensive, just as Britain`s NHS did earlier.

    So this government PANEL has made a decision based entirely on cost that will result in early DEATH for women with cancer, but we shouldn`t call them a "death panel." Well, what would YOU call them?
  94. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:41 pm
    Well, if you want to go there American Idol outperformed both Fox and Msnbc on the Neilson scorecard, so therefore AI is a more trusted newsource.
    Well, that certainly explains a lot.
  95. Profile photo of Kougaiji
    Kougaiji Male 18-29
    604 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:41 pm
    "When liberal @$$hole f***tards like you piss on those heroes to try to score cheap political points, I wish I could reach through the screen and slap your ugly face"
    good job right there. great debate. get a life.
  96. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:42 pm
    I`m sure this legitimate government office, in doing it`s job keeping defective, dangerous or otherwise unsafe medications off the market, saved many lives. I don`t think you have that right at all.

    You conservatives should really go look into an old book by Upton Sinclair on the glories of the unregulated meat industry at the turn of the century. Maybe you`ve heard of it, "The Jungle"? Just don`t read it on a full stomach.
  97. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4683 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:45 pm
    @QueenZira- I can`t believe it. Someone`s actually making valid points and sensible arguments ON THE INTERNET.

    This is history in the making people!
  98. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:47 pm
    Aww shucks, Gorgack, thanks! ;D
  99. Profile photo of Phosphoreign
    Phosphoreign Male 30-39
    309 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:15 pm
    Someone needs to actually talk to a tea partier before they make something like this. This is just uninformed.
  100. Profile photo of kilroy5555
    kilroy5555 Male 30-39
    496 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:17 pm
    Influential supporters of universal health care within the Democratic Party have openly spoken about the idea that we need to "rationally" distribute health care resources once we have a universal health care system. Let`s take Robert Reich`s words as a poignant example, "we`re not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It`s too expensive...so we`re going to let you die." And given that Progressives and the concept of eugenics are old friends (check your history on this one) and that the Dems controlled the entire U.S. government, you might be able to guess that people may have had some founded concerns about death panels. Now let`s hope they don`t spring into existence eventually "as the Secretary shall determine".
  101. Profile photo of kilroy5555
    kilroy5555 Male 30-39
    496 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:23 pm
    Health care debate aside, you missed my point. Maddow is attempting to paint all conservatives with a broad brush as being entirely irrational. I can put together a bunch of liberal protesters and congressional candidates saying lunatic things, but that doesn`t mean that democrats are all lunatics. If you go back to my point, I`m talking about the dishonesty of painting your opponents with a broad (and false) brush as a way to completely discount an argument without having to really consider it. And especially ironic since Maddow herself is a member of an echo chamber on the leftist side.

    Regarding the ratings comparison, you have to compare apples to apples- news shows to news shows. Wouldn`t be sensible to compare MNF to a documentary about elk, would it? And anyway, that was just a throwaway cheap shot at Maddow because I don`t particularly care for her :-P
  102. Profile photo of kilroy5555
    kilroy5555 Male 30-39
    496 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:37 pm
    Just received another transmission from Rush Limbaugh... hang on...

    Regarding Birtherism, I happen to think that your physical presence on the soil of the USA at birth is irrelevant so long as you were born a citizen of the United States.

    Will you similarly repudiate the efforts of Democrats to kneecap McCain`s run for presidency because he was born on a military base? Sounds like the Dems were concerned about the exact same issues the birthers were, right?

    But if you want to play the lunatic game, the crazies on the left want to take the US government over by force and "purge" the millions us of everyone who can`t be reeducated. Thankfully, now some of those people are merely just respected academics. Note how I`m not going to try and attempt to paint all left of center people with these clearly extreme views (though why so many of you are apologists for this, I will never know), yet that`s exactly what Maddow is trying to do in that clip.
  103. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25407 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:49 pm
    wow, makes me want an iphone, i love this, its brilliant, argueing with intellagance agaisnt uneducated people! such is life!
  104. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:56 pm
    @oldOllie you didnt actually answer my question

    what makes it acceptable to make a profit off suffering? why is that morally acceptable?
  105. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:44 pm
    McDuff73: Doesn`t a mortician/funeral home profit off suffering ? Doesn`t a hospital profit off suffering ? Don`t personal injury lawyers profit off suffering ?

    You`re hung up on the profit = greed = evil falsehood. Of course neither of us are greedy, It`s always the other guy. Do you think there is some society that doesn`t run on greed ? Pursuing your own self interest is not illegal or immoral. Socialism attempts to make everyone, Except the elite, Equally miserable. Socialism gives no reward for innovation or imagination or invention. Why invent anything if the state is going to confiscate most of your hard earned money ? No one risks anything if there is no reward for doing so.
  106. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:17 pm
    Killroy- the fact that you even bring up eugenics and "conservative internment camps" (see vid) when talking about this subject tells me you`re not rational. Seriously, how much fear mongering does the RW need to keep supporters anyway?

    You will never find an elected Dem pushing Truther claims as fact. (Truthers being people who believe 9/11 was an inside job done by Bush when he fired missles at the towers and made it look like a terrorist attack) You will find sites like DKos that go to pains to cut those people from participating because what they say is not rational and has no bearing on reality. Meanwhile sites like World Net Daily go out of their way to embrace their conspiracy theorists.
  107. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:21 pm
    Secondly, Birtherism is the belief that Obama is not a US citizen, that he was born in Kenya or Ethiopia or Mars. Lots of elected reps believe this. I would`ve been happy to stop any Dem efforts to stop Mccain from running, If there were any that is. Most Dems realize that the law of Jus Sanguinis (Law of the Blood) applies to Americans born abroad.
  108. Profile photo of scarytropin
    scarytropin Male 30-39
    67 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:33 pm
    People should have an immediate distrust of a description of beliefs X, Y and Z when the person describing those beliefs holds the beliefs ~X, ~Y and ~Z. This holds for realms outside of politics as well.
  109. Profile photo of kilroy5555
    kilroy5555 Male 30-39
    496 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:55 pm
    Euthanasia: "the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy"

    Advisor to Obama and influential Democrat Robert Reich: "It`s too expensive...so we`re going to let you die."

    Sounds like it fits the definition of euthanasia. These are words directly out of Reich`s mouth. More rational now?

    Never said anything about conservative internment camps. I was referring to the stated objectives of the Weather Underground as a way to refer to the most extreme segment of the left (whose members still have influential in the party), not to state that this is something imminent.

    Birthersim v. Disqualifying McCain: 7/11/2008 article written by the NYT on the subject of disqualifying McCain. The idea was certainly being kicked around. Apart from disqualifying Obama from the presidency, I hardly see the relevance o
  110. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:34 pm
    sorry crackr thats a rubbish response others make profits why shouldnt everyone!?
    Undertakers and lawyers could easily be gotten rid of so they are no example and as far as I`m aware hospitals in the UK are state funded so dont make profits off the back of the sick, maybe your right I do see greed at the expense of another human suffering as evil maybe I was brought up to think of my fellow man as better and not a source of income.
    I think we in the UK have done fairly well for a nation of `socialists` that have no incentive to invent anything.
  111. Profile photo of xKiesix
    xKiesix Female 18-29
    448 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 6:42 pm
    God...do you people ever actually go to a teaparty rally? None of this poo is true or even what we believe--well except for how we dislike how they are taxing big businesses. We are libertarian in nature. We want less government, less taxes. The social issues? Yeah, don`t give a poo. I just think it`s wrong that we tax the hell out of people who went out, accumulated debt to go to school, got a good job, paid off that debt, and are now doing really well for themselves.

    Teapartiers and conservatives are not necessarily born rich. My mother was one of 8 kids in the city of Detroit who got her clothes from the church`s charity. My father was an immigrant from Chile who joined the army to pay for school. They both got an education and now are doing really well for themselves. Why should they be punished for making their dreams come true? Even when I was growing up we didn`t have everything. It wasn`t until I started college that we became blessed.
  112. Profile photo of Dragonlord
    Dragonlord Male 18-29
    734 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 8:02 pm
    I hate tea-partiers as much as the next guy, but even I recognize that this is a straw man taken to an extreme.

    This program has been used for all sorts of arguments like this, and each and every one of them is a sack of shet.
  113. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 8:13 pm
    @McDuff73 What is is with you liberals that makes you think that the more one contributes to the well being of one`s fellow man, the less one should be compensated? I never hear you whine and complain about athletes and entertainers making $millions for something we could all get by fine without, but let somebody produce something that we actually need to survive -- food, energy, drugs, medical care -- and you think they should all work as slaves.

    Let me ask you, if those are the rules, why would ANYBODY want to spend their time and efforts or risk their money to provide you with what you need to survive? Why should someone invest a $billion to develop a new life-saving drug, or drill a new oil well when the government is just going to confiscate all the profits? I`d rather invest in a casino. Why spend a decade learning to become a doctor or a CEO when you`re going to set me pay lower than that of a second-string shortstop? I`d rather be a union bus driver.
  114. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 8:47 pm
    Jesus was the original Socialist. Tea-Partiers, meditate on that. Seriously.
  115. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:01 pm
    Jesus was the original Socialist.
    Gee, I guess I missed the passage where Jesus called on the Romans to take from the rich and give to the poor. Maybe you could provide a reference...

    I do recall several passages where Jesus called on us to be generous with our own money, but I don`t think it counts when you`re being generous with other people`s money.
  116. Profile photo of SilverThread
    SilverThread Male 30-39
    3435 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:12 pm
    Voting ended on November 2, this video was posted on November 4.

    Clearly this is another attempt at the liberal media to undermine the constitution of the free peoples of Middle Earth.

    Sauron was a Democrat People!
  117. Profile photo of Gleeballs
    Gleeballs Female 18-29
    850 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:52 pm
    wtf is this animation? why did they choose those weird pig creatures?
  118. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 4:51 am
    @OldOllie firstly i think the levels of wages of entertainers sports stars etc.... are disgusting I`d rather pay dr`s and nurses and firemen and soldiers a better wage than have some idiot paid millions to kick a football around a pitch.
    Now I know this concept sounds alien to you but have you ever heard of doing something for the common good? something that benefits mankind just for the reward of knowing you helped others?
    I would argue that the thing that holds mankind back is your kind of backward thinking where people `have` to be rewarded for what they did.
  119. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 9:04 am
    How about turnabout? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGwtG8nVpUU
  120. Profile photo of mdg
    mdg Male 30-39
    44 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 10:42 am
    What`s with the emasculated men in Europe relying on the government to take care of their families? Pansies!
  121. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 12:35 pm
    almost as amazing as a nation allowing a group of rich companies make crap loads of money out of them for being ill! idiots.
  122. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 1:14 pm
    It is funny the different ways we see each others countries and systems.

    Now what we need is for all of us to move to countries with people that think in a similar manner.

    To the more liberal of us, they are more caring and sensitive and standing up for the little guy and for the more conservative they aren`t comfortable with taking from some to give to others.

    I already posted a link showing that the USA donates more personal money to charity than other countries. So, if we are so selfish and uncaring why is that? The same article also showed that conservatives in the US actually contribute more to charity than do US liberals? As insensitive as they are US conservatives set the pace on charitable donations of time and money?

    Who`d a thunk?

    I guess if you believe in the almighty government, they can even do your donating for you?
  123. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 1:16 pm
    OH... and it`s very easy to be charitable with money taken from others isn`t it! Gives one power!
  124. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 1:29 pm
    we donate via our larger taxes which go to paying for our NHS and our benefits system that helps the people that are unable to contribute and I personally feel its a moral obligation to pay my higher taxes to help those less fortunate, heck maybe thats why I have less money to be personally charitable with.
  125. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 3:54 pm
    we donate via our larger taxes which go to paying for our NHS and our benefits system that helps the people that are unable to contribute and I personally feel its a moral obligation to pay my higher taxes to help those less fortunate, heck maybe thats why I have less money to be personally charitable with.

    That was exactly what the article said most Europeans answered when asked. That they didn`t feel inclined to donate money because it was being taken care of by their taxes.

    But the USA donates more than double the next country (Great Britain) as a percentage of GDP. As fas as raw dollars.... it`s not even close.

    So the argument that somehow we Americans don`t give enough or are not charitable just doesn`t compute.
  126. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 4:06 pm
    @McDuff73 So, what the world really needs is an elite cadre of brilliant enlightened liberals like yourself to hold guns to the heads of the rest of us greedy, selfish bastards so you can confiscate our money and give it to those you feel are more deserving of it. Well, I hate to tell you, but it`s been tried before, and not only has it failed miserably, it has resulted in the deaths of over 100 million people.

    The fact is, the USA has the most capitalistic economic system in the world, and yet we greedy, selfish, American bastards give more in charitable contributions than the entire rest of the f***ing world COMBINED, not to mention the fact that we have shed our blood and spent our treasure to free hundreds of millions of people from the very kind of tyranny you are longing for. And we do it wall without being forced to by idealistic do-gooders like you.
  127. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 4:27 pm
    @tridirk as a Nation you fall way behind others on Development aid you gave .2% in 2008 of your GNI as opposed to the UK which gave .52% more than twice as much!
    As a percentage of GNI your country gave 0.03% in humanitarian aid behind such nations as Saudi Arabia 0.15% some way behind in fact.
    In donations per citizen you gave $14 as opposed to the UK`s $17 and both of which are far behind Luxembourgs $114. All of this is data from 2008.
    @OldOllie why so hostile and antagonistic I havent killed your dog have I?
    I dont claim to be either elitist nor an `enlightened liberal` and I wont hold a gun to anyones head but to point out the obvious we all give in the UK to help our fellow man and we`re still going strong.
    I`m neither a do-gooder nor an idealist I`m just human and care for my fellow man a trait it would appear you are shamefully lacking.
    all of which is lovely conversation but fails to answer the original question is it morally right to earn money off the
  128. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 5:01 pm
    I think Ollie owned this thread.
  129. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    McDuff73 If you haven`t figured out the answer to your stupid question, it`s YES. Who better deserves to be rewarded for his efforts than someone who provides a valuable good or service that benefits his fellow man -- something for which said fellow man is willing to pay in a free and voluntary exchange of value for value?

    What is disgustingly IMMORAL is to tell someone he CAN`T be fairly compensated for helping his fellow man, so he doesn`t do it at all, and consequently, they both suffer. (And no, neither of them needs the likes of you telling them what it means to be "fairly compensated." That`s strictly between them, and it`s none of your damned business.)

    And there you have not only the answer to your question, but the sad history of the world in two paragraphs.

    And to Suicism, I`m not sure there`s anything here worth owning, but thanks. ;-)
  130. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 10:39 pm
    You really are a hostile wee fellow aren`t you!?
    well I suppose thanks for finally answering a question from a few pages ago.
    You really do have a skewed perception of the word wherin its more immoral to be concerned about your fellow man more so than to turn a profit and how is it considered free and willing if your only choice is pay or die?
    Sad that you consider profit over welfare, theres the history of the 20th and 21st century in those first seven words of this sentence!

    @sucism how exactly has he owned if hes been proved wrong and to be selfish too?
  131. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 11:27 pm
    I`m not really hostile. I just have a congenital inability to suffer fools gladly.

    I think P.J. O`Roarke described you much better than I could when he said, "A liberal is someone who would gladly give you the shirt off of someone else`s back."

    And if you can`t see how you`ve been owned, I have nothing else for you.
  132. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 1:06 am
    In other words hostile to someone that doesnt share your very narrow view of the world.
    PJ O`Roarke`s quote is as ridiculous as it sounds but I can see why you have such a skewed view of the world when your quoting buffoons like that.
    As to being `owned` do you mean where I pointed out you were wrong repeatedly!?
  133. Profile photo of iaburton
    iaburton Male 18-29
    6 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:31 am
    err oldollie, somebody said that jesus was the original socialist, and their partly correct. The early Christians (pre-constantine) lived in community (g.k. koinonia) and shared things in common (koina). As for specific passages Matt 19:23-24, Mark 10:17-25, Luke 10:24-25. Also you should definitely check out the story of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts.
    Also when you were talking about morality, ethics can really only be considered when it is `a priori", that is to say consequence cannot be considered when judging if an action is moral (ethically sound) or not, instead the only thing that can be put into account is intention. A truly moral action must also be universal, and done for the sake of itself.
    But then again, open skepticism of deeply held beliefs are tough for most people, so... you might just forget that
  134. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 4:21 pm
    McDuff73, the only thing you`ve pointed out here is your extraordinary capacity for self-delusion.
  135. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 8:04 pm
    iaburton, if you can`t tell the difference between a voluntary association of free people and a police state with armed guards, attack dogs, and razor wire (which is how ALL socialist "Eutopias" end up), I can`t explain it to you in 1000 characters.

    When charity is compelled by the state, it`s no longer charity. It`s just a bunch of arrogant pricks who think they`re more intelligent, better educated, more enlightened, and more moral than you are, which to them means that they`re better qualified to spend your money than you are.
  136. Profile photo of McDuff73
    McDuff73 Male 30-39
    870 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 3:44 am
    @ollie ignoring the fact you were wrong doesnt make it go away it just means your still wrong.

    This nonsense you rattle on about socialism leading to police states is just evidence of how you`ve been indoctrinated to beleive in the mighty dollar, your not free at all you shackled by the need for money.

    Arrogance is in a Nation refusing to recognise it has a moral obligation to provide health care to its populace free of charge.
  137. Profile photo of iaburton
    iaburton Male 18-29
    6 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 7:29 am
    say huh?? ha
    I said nothing about the free market vs. socialized market, I just said that there are a number of instances of people living in common(ism) in the Bible, you said there wasn`t and there certainly is, you can look it up.

    And just for the heck of it, a number of logical fallacies you committed: Ignore the evidence, hedge what you say, insist loudly on a minor point, oversimplify the issue, straw man argument, slippery slope, create misgivings, appeal to fear, talk in vague generalities, rewrite history, shift the burden of proof.

    and to say that I do not "understand" your view on reality, that is true. Because I am certain that there is no "one true way" and all others are false, as there is no way to quantify opinions. I was simply stating a fact (-:
  138. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 9:52 pm
    This nonsense you rattle on about socialism leading to police states is just evidence of how you`ve been indoctrinated...
    So, I guess that the USSR, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania, China, North Korea, Viet Nam, Khmer Republic, Myanmar, Angola, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Cuba, and Iran are just exceptions to the rule.

    Finally nations have no moral obligations save those of their individual citizens. All the pain and suffering in the world has been because some people feel they have a "moral obligation" to steal the property of one individual and give it to another (keeping a small "administrative fee" for themselves, of course). Call it what you want -- liberalism, progressiveism, fascism, socialism, Marxism, Stalinism, Leninism, Maoism, or social justice -- it`s all the same, and it never ends well.
  139. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 10:08 pm
    iaburton, socialism is a system of GOVERNMENT, not a voluntary living arrangement. You can`t equate communal living with socialism any more than you can equate marriage with gang rape. Socialism, like gang rape, involves one group of people using force to compel an individual to act against his or her will. Whether it`s your money or your @$$, if you don`t give it up, someone`s going to pull a gun on you.

    Early Christians may have lived communally, but it wasn`t because Jesus threatened to send them to prison if they didn`t.
  140. Profile photo of iaburton
    iaburton Male 18-29
    6 posts
    November 9, 2010 at 6:36 am
    Well, not socialism, in fact it may have been true communism, they shared all things in common, there were no personal possessions. And again, really read the Bible before you quote Jesus on something, because in story of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts Chapter 5, he didn`t threaten to throw them in Jail, because Ananias sold some of his land and did not give all of the profits (he held some for himself), he not only lied to the elders but he lied to God, and died on the spot. Mark 10 he states that it is easier for a camel to pass through a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. Achan in Joshua 7, ect. There are a number of passages.

    The main point though is that, according to the Bible, our possessions are what attaches us to the earth, and moves us away from God. When we own things we no longer have a praxis of agape, face-to-face communion, but instead have a praxis of subject-to-object. cont.
  141. Profile photo of iaburton
    iaburton Male 18-29
    6 posts
    November 9, 2010 at 6:44 am
    con`t. While it certainly isn`t the Grace of God force you to come this conclusion, as he gave us the ability to create (reason/intellect), in order to trancend this world to become closer to God, one need to give up on the world and its possessions.

    Again, I never said ANYTHING about Government (to be honest socialism isn`t even my governmental preference), I was just trying to illuminate you on the Word, beyond what Pat Roberson, Beck, or any other evangelicals with a mission might lead you to believe about the Word.
  142. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    November 9, 2010 at 9:47 am
    iaburton, Jesus was not in ANY sense of the word a socialist. Until you acknowledge the difference between voluntary giving and having your property stolen by threat of force, there`s really nothing more to discuss.

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