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Category: Science
Date: 11/05/10 10:00 AM

144 Responses to Evolution:Addressing Falsehoods, Explaining Basics

  1. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 6:59 am
    Link: Evolution:Addressing Falsehoods, Explaining Basics - One of then most educated videos we`ve seen. Not trying to start a flame war, just trying to educate.
  2. Profile photo of regediT
    regediT Male 18-29
    716 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:13 am
    I agree with the main concept, yet to me it`s like sitting through a dull lecture
  3. Profile photo of Wundt
    Wundt Male 40-49
    410 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:14 am
    This is old, but all of his videos are very good.
  4. Profile photo of sepia-tenshi
    sepia-tenshi Female 18-29
    353 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:21 am
    awesome, finally some sense around here!
  5. Profile photo of domisgood
    domisgood Male 18-29
    4868 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:27 am
    anyone who still doesn`t accept evolution should be thrown in a well...
  6. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32822 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:32 am
    Nice! And the best stuff was in the first minute, for those with short attention spans... lolz!
  7. Profile photo of pyrrhios
    pyrrhios Male 30-39
    185 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:40 am
    Thank you. I was unaware of all the propaganda against the theory of evolution. I was under the misconception that creationists were all simply loony.
  8. Profile photo of LordJim
    LordJim Male 60-69
    6961 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:43 am
    So why are there still monkeys? Huh? Huh?
  9. Profile photo of c3rv4
    c3rv4 Male 18-29
    270 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:44 am
    bananas killed christians!
  10. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:47 am
    guys, play nice. like i said, im not looking for a flame war.
  11. Profile photo of xiquiripat
    xiquiripat Male 18-29
    2422 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:00 am
    Good stuff. But I don`t think it`s going to change people`s minds.
  12. Profile photo of darkgear6
    darkgear6 Male 70 & Over
    1378 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:01 am
    Jesus died, lol
  13. Profile photo of BoredFrank
    BoredFrank Male 40-49
    2342 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:04 am
    Creationists are usually extremely averse to both rational argument and basic education.

    Still, a good effort.

  14. Profile photo of Pheeshy5
    Pheeshy5 Male 18-29
    1312 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:18 am
    Ha! Atheists worst nightmare huh? Now who feels stupid?
  15. Profile photo of LTimeLurker
    LTimeLurker Female 18-29
    723 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:24 am
    <--Christian who "buys into" evolution.
  16. Profile photo of belunan
    belunan Male 30-39
    1507 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:25 am
    I`ve seen the loony preacher trying to use a banana to support creationism but I wasn`t aware that the same banana he talks about didn`t come around until the 19th century. This vid just handed me another grenade to lob at the fundies.
  17. Profile photo of CrzyWhtGrl
    CrzyWhtGrl Female 18-29
    255 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:28 am
    Man, I love this guy`s voice... I`m a Christian, and I have never understood why people freaked out when they started teaching evolution in schools around here a few years back. I always just figured they didn`t understand it, and thought it challenged their faith when it really did not.
  18. Profile photo of Wildcats2008
    Wildcats2008 Male 18-29
    237 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:36 am
    "So why are there still monkeys? Huh? Huh?"

    Go watch the video again. It clearly explains that organisms evolve to adapt to the challenges in their environment. (I don`t fall to either side of the fence just yet so I`m going completely off what the video explains) At some point there was a separation of the group and one group had a different set of challenges to overcome and became humans and the other had different challenges and became monkeys.

    I`m sure if humans lived in the jungle for long enough they`d eventually start living in the trees to avoid predators just like monkeys do and the strengths needed to survive in the jungle would be emphasized while those who couldn`t adapt would be killed off.
  19. Profile photo of nubblins
    nubblins Female 18-29
    1743 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:41 am
    Makes a lot more sense than the magical sand/rib theory..
  20. Profile photo of frajola
    frajola Female 18-29
    99 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:44 am
    This is one of the best videos explaining evolution there is!

    And that crockoduck thing is the dumbest idea I`ve ever heard. Some ppl just seem to forget (or choose to ignore) the aspect of natural selection.
  21. Profile photo of frajola
    frajola Female 18-29
    99 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:46 am
    And I thought plaintains were newfangled bananas and not the other way around
  22. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:54 am
    preaching to the choir. I`m not into intelligent design. I only have to look at my idiot cousins to know they are not a product of inteligent design.
  23. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:56 am
    LOL @ CobraKiller - " im not looking for a flame war"

    then why`d you give us this kind of gasoline-n-matches?

    just sit back and watch the fun
  24. Profile photo of SPARTAKITTY
    SPARTAKITTY Female 18-29
    2120 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:04 pm
    Ooooh, I love QualiaSoup! His brother, TheraminTrees, is also very good at this sort of thing.
  25. Profile photo of bacon_pie
    bacon_pie Male 30-39
    3061 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:29 pm
    i am a devout christian. i don`t believe in the teachings of dawinism or that we all came from a primordial soup, but i do believe in evolution to a point. i believe that people as well as animals evolve from their environment and surroundings.
  26. Profile photo of pocketmoron
    pocketmoron Male 18-29
    191 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:31 pm
    Megalike this vid.
  27. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:37 pm
    Excellent vid.
  28. Profile photo of NICKYNUTSACK
    NICKYNUTSACK Male 30-39
    3 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:39 pm
    The process of natural selection has been clearly demonstrated by science; that much is clear. I still have yet to see any evidence of any species evolving, through natural selection, into a different species. The Gallapagos finches are still finches, right? Am I being naive here? I have no problem with the theory of evolution, and it does not conflict with my beliefs in God, but why is it taught as "fact" in our schools?
  29. Profile photo of sed8908
    sed8908 Male 18-29
    62 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 12:40 pm
    RhinoCrocoDuckPuss should be a new Sci-Fi movie
  30. Profile photo of WooTBananA
    WooTBananA Male 18-29
    18 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:14 pm
    Question for someone... okay so I take a species and it has a ton of mutations over time and turns into another species.. But why don`t we have any fossil records of the animals with the small mutations? If it happened over such a long period of time, you`d think those animals would fossilize. But there`s no proof that they ever existed. They only take an animal, show a different but similar animal and say look it mutated and evolved... But the problem being, you just showed me a different animal, not any of the steps along the way. Can anyone show me the other mutations along the way? That`s the problem I see with this video... Any answers? In your answer, include a credible website with a full fossil record of the animal and mutations along the way. Otherwise, I don`t see how you could ever prove to me that evolution in this form is true.
  31. Profile photo of jag1989
    jag1989 Male 18-29
    47 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:17 pm
    @ NICKYNUTSACK
    " still have yet to see any evidence of any species evolving, through natural selection, into a different species"

    What about animals such as whales and snakes that still have small useless limbs (often hind legs)? surely this shows that once this species had legs, and therefore by modern standards would have been a different species, but now those legs have reduced to small segments of bone due to natural selection. perfect proof of one "species" becoming another?

    as for it being taught as "fact", gravity is still just a theory based on the best evidence available, but you wouldnt want your children being taught that if they jump in the air there`s a chance they`ll float into space becasue gravity isnt hard "fact"? thats why both gravity, evolution and many other scientific theries are taught as fact.
  32. Profile photo of neutronstar
    neutronstar Female 18-29
    7 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:18 pm
    @ NICKYNUTSACK: the example that you used about the Galapagos Finches, saying they are not different species is wrong because for example the medium ground finch and the cactus finch CANNOT mate with each other as they either have different mating seasons, songs, they are not compatible,and if they are able to mate any offspring they might have will be sterile. just the fact that these two type of finches cannot produce viable offspring with each other makes them a DIFFERENT species. if you need more examples read about the HIV virus.
  33. Profile photo of jag1989
    jag1989 Male 18-29
    47 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:20 pm
    @WooTBananA

    half way between a fish and a land mammal.....done.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_fish
  34. Profile photo of Maelstrom_x
    Maelstrom_x Male 18-29
    1883 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:21 pm
    Unfortunately, the anti-evolution people that listen to the likes of Kent Hovind, Kirk Cameron, Ray Comfort, etc. probably turned it off 30 seconds into the video.

    "Because the Bible said so."

    ;)
  35. Profile photo of WhoaHeyDude
    WhoaHeyDude Male 18-29
    133 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:22 pm
    "The process of natural selection has been clearly demonstrated by science; that much is clear. I still have yet to see any evidence of any species evolving, through natural selection, into a different species. The Gallapagos finches are still finches, right? Am I being naive here? I have no problem with the theory of evolution, and it does not conflict with my beliefs in God, but why is it taught as "fact" in our schools?"

    Dear this guy,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo
  36. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:27 pm
    Evolution does not exist in humans. We have halted it.

    If "survival of the fittest" is the rule, then we are reversing evolution. Our least fit... Least able to support themselves, care for themselves, handle modern life.... those people are outbreeding the capable people who can cope that have only 1 child per couple.

    Unable to survive by themselves, we support them through welfare and other programs. And we encourage them to breed by giving them more money for each child they have.

    People that can survive well and thrive only have 1 child per couple. maybe 2. Smart numbers are declining.

    You can see this theory in action by the dropping school test scores and the incease in lazy obesity.

    I`m done on my soap box now..... let the flame war commence.
  37. Profile photo of NICKYNUTSACK
    NICKYNUTSACK Male 30-39
    3 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:38 pm
    Glad I joined this site. I learned something, heard intelligent arguments, and (so far) haven`t seen the discussion derail into a mud-slinging contest. Thanks to all.
  38. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4682 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 1:52 pm
    "Dear this guy,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo"

    This comment could start a massive flame-war if it was wrongly interpreted.
  39. Profile photo of SmilinSam
    SmilinSam Female 18-29
    3599 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:03 pm
    Very good explanation, leaves no holes that people can jump through to come to ridiculous conclusions. i hate that (usually christian) people are always so edgy when it comes to this subject, i grew up in an extermely religous household and at church they had a whole month where the pastor was just debunking evolution in any way he could. they had a speaker that had written a book called "don`t buy the lie" and he came in and they were selling the book and everyone was just freakin brainwashed by the end of it. i was. it took me a long time to break free of those mental constraints. ugh which is why it`s awful to try to argue with someone when they are fighting for their "faith", they just won`t hear it, they view it as a challenge to overcome and they reward themselves when they "win" an argument or just completely ignore anyone that slightly disagrees with them. i remember how i was. it makes me sad now to look back on it.
  40. Profile photo of chrunchy
    chrunchy Male 30-39
    77 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:09 pm
    This video won`t make a lick of difference - it uses too complicated words like "species" and "of".

    That being said, I did enjoy it.
  41. Profile photo of tobyvictory
    tobyvictory Male 70 & Over
    406 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:18 pm
    Great video! But it won`t do any good. The bible thumpers believe god created the earth and every thing as is about 6000 years ago. There is no deviating.
  42. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:24 pm
    @NICKYNUTSACK - stick around. the mud comes later
  43. Profile photo of chrunchy
    chrunchy Male 30-39
    77 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:27 pm
    This video won`t make a lick of difference - it uses too complicated words like "species" and "of".

    That being said, I did enjoy it.
  44. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:35 pm
    Somepeople dont understand, someone does! somepeople understand but refuse to believe!
  45. Profile photo of magoo22
    magoo22 Male 30-39
    660 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:39 pm
    @Gerry1of1 how can you reverse evolution? Isn`t that still just evolution? I didn`t think there was a direction. ie from primordial slime to us..
  46. Profile photo of chrunchy
    chrunchy Male 30-39
    77 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:51 pm
    This video won`t make a lick of difference - it uses too complicated words like "species" and "of".

    That being said, I did enjoy it.
  47. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:52 pm
    Good video but then again, its not something someone who already knows about this will sit and watch, and is not something a non believer of it would check/pay attention to/give credit to
  48. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    Gerry "survival of the fittest" is NOT Evolution, is just one of the many ways evolution can happen. Like what they said in the video, the key of evolution is mutation
  49. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:16 pm
    This is exactly what I`ve been thinking,God did create us, through evolution. He started us out as protozoa knowing full well we would eventualy evolve into us. He gave us everything we need to succeed or fail and sat back and let it just happen. The thing that kills me with alot of people that preach evolution, is that they try to say that evolution directly disproves the reality that God is real. Also the ones that so feverently support evolution seem to forget it when it comes to changes in species or climate or geography they forget evolution and start spouting that everything is caused by the mismanagement of man. If evolution is real, then why would it stop? We are not the final evolution, how long was Rome the most dominate power on Earth and how long have our countires been here? Some day a whole new civilization may look at our ruins and tell stories of the United States empire that lasted for 570 years and vanished 700 years ago. Don`t ya think?
  50. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    32822 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:45 pm
    "@Gerry1of1 how can you reverse evolution? Isn`t that still just evolution? - magoo22"
    Hahaha! She`s got you there @gerry1! If we become "unfit" for our environment, we`ll go extinct, eh? Remember that the past 1000 years is a mere "tick" in the clock of evolution!

    Oh wait, there IS DEVO-lution!
  51. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:51 pm
    Devolution - brilliant.

    Anywayz - what Gerry said - it`s still evolution of the fittest - fittest for the given system. The dumbers will take over due to their increased breeding rate, but then the intelligentsia (i.e. those that can open tins) will probably have a resurgence when the chavs starve to death.
  52. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:52 pm
    Yeah... and morons will still argue despite seeing this.
  53. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:56 pm
    @WooTBananA, the reason the "missing link" argument persists is because finding fossils are rare.

    First, consider that not all species were wonderfully successful. Human ancestors, for example, have struggled to survive and have come very close to extinction. It is estimated that our population may have dwindled to as low as 10,000 at one point.

    Second, fossilization is not an automatic process. It is rare for something to be fossilized; the conditions have to be near perfect.

    Third, we have excavated very little of the planet.

    Fourth, Evolution may happen in fits as environmental pressures is applied.

    And lastly, what defines a missing link? If you want half way between human and his apelike ancestor, we can show you that. You want half way between that, we can show you. But we can`t show you the change in 1,000 year snapshots...YET!
  54. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:56 pm
    Bigpappa - anything could have evolved out of the protozoa - god would have had to know every single interaction and variable to predict us. Doesn`t violate the `god is everything and all knowing` idea, but by that point god *is* the system and therefore, pretty much, irrelevant.
  55. Profile photo of puppies04
    puppies04 Male 18-29
    686 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 3:59 pm
    Nice bigpappa, let me give you a simplified timeline here...

    1. People are tortured and killed for even entertaining the idea that god did not create the universe

    2. Widespread misquotation of evolutionary principles by religious groups in the hope to discredit the idea

    3. Oh we believe in evolution now and that proves that *god* exists because he is behind it and knew that it would all turn out alright in the end even though ALL holy scriptures say the exact opposite.

    Seriously go create a new religion or stay on your own side of the fence we dont apprieciate you over here
  56. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:13 pm
    @BigPappa, maybe you misunderstand those preaching evolution, or they are really anti-religious nuts who wield evolution as a weapon and they are as misguided as the creationists.

    Evolution does not say anything about the existence of God and anyone who says differently does not understand Evolution. Evolution works the same with or without God.

    Evolution DOES contradict the creation story as put forth by any literal interpretation of the Bible. Many people do not seem to be able to separate God and the Bible. An attack on the Bible is an attack on God and I would guess that you are making that same mistake.
  57. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    The only thing I know, is that I don`t know, and neither do you. I personally have great faith that God exist and that he loves me, people that don`t believe have to have faith in the fact that something can indeed come from nothing and on accident for that matter and that there is no God and mankind is alone in it`s supremecy over the universe. Can you picture "nothing" in your mind? Not blank white or gray or black, but nothing? Picture if there were no space,time,gasses,atoms or anything, how can you perceive never ending emptiness? And if you have nothing, how do you get something? Even with my belief in God I know I don`t understand what`s going on.Where did God come from? I just see enough evidence in my personal life to give me faith. It makes sense to me, even though I don`t base my beliefs on the bible,I feel it`s flawed by the editing of man, I base my belief on what I feel and the fact that I "know" that I don`t know.
  58. Profile photo of ElMustache
    ElMustache Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:33 pm
    Brilliant vid. There will be no pleasing nay sayers of evolution despite science.
  59. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:43 pm
    @BigPappa, there is nothing wrong with believing in God. The fact that you seem to keep an open mind about it is respectable.

    Consider that maybe the reason you can`t imagine something from nothing may be because you do not fully understand what has been hypothesized about the origin of everything.
  60. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:47 pm
    @MattPrince, Maybe it`s you that`s irrelevent to God. Possibly, God created the universe and especially this planet, to be an ever evolving self reliant system, by giving every thing needed for life to exist and perpetuate and then he backed off to let it do it`s thing, only getting involved rarely if he so chooses, with a policy of not, for the most part. He gave us free will for a reason, he also gave us reckoning and understandng of this world so we could figure it out ourselves. Everything people pray for he`s given you, it`s just assembly required. Everything we need to acomplish anything we want is here somewhere but it`s up to us to do the work and find, master and use everything he`s given us. That`s what I believe, I could be wrong and I know it. I also respect other people`s beliefs are very real to them as well, whether right or wrong. We`ll see in the end I suppose.
  61. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:50 pm
    @Not, I am assuming ( I know ass+you+me ) that you mean the theory of evolution from the point where the some stuff already existed and then the big bang created us, correct?
  62. Profile photo of SapphireHart
    SapphireHart Female 18-29
    412 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:55 pm
    @puppies04 On your no.1 the same can be said for those entertaining the idea of a God as well as no God :)

    I think this video is pretty cool, simplifies everything that I was taught in zoology about evolution, and although I find the word changing example very random, it actually did make sense to use!
  63. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 4:55 pm
    magoo22 - you have a point. let me rephrase

    we are De-evolving or evolving-down. Not into more intelligent people...into less intelligent ones.

    better?
  64. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:37 pm
    magoo22 - you have a point. let me rephrase

    we are De-evolving or evolving-down. Not into more intelligent people...into less intelligent ones.

    better?

    Devolution only exists in politics. If the average level of intelligence in humans is decreasing, that would still be evolution. It would simply indicate that lower intelligence had become a favoured trait.
  65. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:45 pm
    I still have yet to see any evidence of any species evolving, through natural selection, into a different species.

    I have. It`s common. He referred in this video to a species becoming divided by living in different environments, evolving differently in response to the different pressures in the different environments, until they were different species. There are many examples of this happening in reality.

    If you want to see evolution into a radically different species, like having 4 legs instead of 2 legs and 2 wings, you`d have to wait around rather longer and overlook all the changes in between that would be numerous different species.
  66. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:45 pm
    @BigPappa : I think you`re view and my view may differ greatly theologically, but are pretty close practically - at least this side of the `veil`

  67. Profile photo of MattPrince
    MattPrince Male 40-49
    2220 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:49 pm
    I still have yet to see any evidence of any species evolving, through natural selection, into a different species.

    Try this Includes examples of observed speciation.
  68. Profile photo of polybius
    polybius Male 18-29
    76 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:50 pm
    Well, there goes my ambition to successfully breed crocoducks.
  69. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:50 pm
    I have no problem with the theory of evolution, and it does not conflict with my beliefs in God, but why is it taught as "fact" in our schools?

    i) Evolution is a fact. You`d have to be genuinely insane to think otherwise.

    ii) The theory of evolution (which is an explanation for the fact of evolution) has met a standard of proof far beyond that needed to be considered fact in daily life.

    iii) Do you object to schools teaching that some bacteria and viruses can cause some diseases? That`s also a theory (the germ theory of disease). It`s common to teach extremely well supported theories as fact at school level. Some people object to this only for some theories, for various strange reasons of their own.
  70. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 5:59 pm
    This is exactly what I`ve been thinking,God did create us, through evolution. He started us out as protozoa knowing full well we would eventualy evolve into us.

    That could be true, for any god or gods anyone cares to name.

    The thing that kills me with alot of people that preach evolution, is that they try to say that evolution directly disproves the reality that God is real.

    Now you`ve shown that you`re just another ignorant creationist propaganda peddler.

    People don`t preach evolution.

    The vast majority of the people who claim that the existence of evolution proves the non-existence of all gods are theists who are ignorant, lying or both.

    Your ludicrously circular statement that the reality of your god is a fact because of the reality of your god perfectly illustrates the problem - you think science is like you, making statements without evidence.

    Also, a relatively minor point, `alot` isn
  71. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:43 pm
    im sorry, somebody may have already made reference to this but there have been so many posts and im tired.

    i read something about the missing link. there really is no missing link. african homo-sapiens evolved from homo-erectus which in turn evolved from australopithicus africanus. all other people probably have a hybridization with homo-neanrathalus. but these all came from an earlier australopithicus that was our last common ancestor with chimpanzees. here is one link i found, but its complicated to follow. ill be looking for another one.
  72. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:45 pm
    oh, i forgot my main point. people who want to fight evolution will always talk of a missing link, and there always will be one. the fact is there are differences in every species along the way, so non will ever be "close enough" to satisfy everyone. we have a pretty brilliant fossil record of our evolutionary history as humans, but people either ignore it or are just ignorant to it.
  73. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7470 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:48 pm
    here you go, if you have a little bit of time and are interested in learning more about human evolution specifically, this site is pretty good.
  74. Profile photo of mParfait
    mParfait Male 18-29
    29 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 7:58 pm
    This is exactly what I`ve been thinking,God did create us, through evolution. He started us out as protozoa knowing full well we would eventualy evolve into us.

    Not exactly true..... Another one of the big things in evolution is that organisms do NOT work towards a certain form on purpose. Don`t worry though, they way I circumvent this is that somebody has to have set all the constants as described in the string theory. Sadly, the creation of anything biological can be explained, through educated guesses of coure, by chemical interactions in microbiology, which is alot of chemistry oddly enough..... However chemistry can be described through quatumn mechanics, which is alot of physics oddly enough again.... That`s when god must have done something. There are certain values that can alter the very settings in which this universe works when you delve into string theory. IE: if light did not travel at 3E8, poo be real different.
  75. Profile photo of SlothOfDoom
    SlothOfDoom Male 30-39
    2033 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 8:06 pm
    The fact that people don`t understand the very basic concepts expressed in this video make me weep for the future of humanity.
  76. Profile photo of Boredhero78
    Boredhero78 Male 18-29
    108 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:17 pm
    I wasted my money going to college. I should have just gone to I.A.B instead. Everyone on here seems be a philosopher who also happens to know everything about science, religion and politics.
  77. Profile photo of JGsox33
    JGsox33 Male 18-29
    47 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:47 pm
    I believe in evolution. I mean, come on. Tits looked way different in the 70s.
  78. Profile photo of ROK9
    ROK9 Male 18-29
    1834 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:54 pm
    i hate this religious propaganda
  79. Profile photo of JGsox33
    JGsox33 Male 18-29
    47 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 9:59 pm
    "Can you picture "nothing" in your mind? Not blank white or gray or black, but nothing?" (I don`t remember who said this, but)
    Well, isn`t the universe ever-expanding? It`s always growing larger... So after the universe, what is there? Nothing. So I do believe "nothing" exists.
    Also, kind of not really the point but although I am an atheist, I`m realizing that it`s a good thing that religion exists. Imagine if the tables were turned. Imagine the majority of people were atheists and only a small percentage were Christian. People might not feel so bad anymore if they kill a person or some other bad deed. Although it`s obvious that morals are built into us since birth pretty much, people go crazy...
    Basically, we all know that stabbing some random person is wrong. But many people do stuff that`s wrong anyway. Littering is a good example. But if people feel threatened by "sins" and "hell," maybe they will be good. It`s funny tha
  80. Profile photo of JGsox33
    JGsox33 Male 18-29
    47 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:02 pm
    (damnit, got cut off)
    It`s funny that some people find comfort in "rules" like that... If there is no ultimatum, no form of eternal punishment, they might not have morals.
    I heard one devout Christian argue that he truly believed people would not know it is wrong to murder a person unless they read the bible, believed in God, etc. It was actually from that documentary by Bill Maher.
    BUT ANYWAY. Evolution is true. Duh.
  81. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:05 pm
    @BigPappa, no, the Theory of Evolution has nothing to with the Big Bang or the creation of the universe. I was speaking to your misrepresentation of what came before the Big Bang. A popular hypothesis currently is that our universe was created when a pair of higher dimensional branes collided and that was the cause of the Big Bang. Those branes may collide relatively often, creating multiple universes (so much for the prefix "uni" meaning one). So, according to the hypothesis, there was something before the Big Bang.
  82. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 10:19 pm
    @JGsox33, I have personally never understood the argument that Atheists can kill without remorse since they lack the guilt that religion provides. An Atheist could wonder how Christians feel remorse when the dead is "in a better place". Both concepts are ridiculous. Sane people, religious or not, feel remorse for the dead.

    I am an Atheist and I feel that the loss of life is the absolute worst thing that can happen. To me, death is the end. I feel bad that that person will no longer enjoy the wonder of living, and the living are forever deprived of that person.

    It is my fondest wish that science will find a way for all of us to live forever. Everyday that passes without that discovery means more people will die.
  83. Profile photo of mParfait
    mParfait Male 18-29
    29 posts
    November 5, 2010 at 11:12 pm
    @NottaSpy

    I think he was just making fun of the person who made that comment and not not as an authority figure to quote off of. Hopefully not.....
  84. Profile photo of Winter_ICE_0
    Winter_ICE_0 Male 13-17
    976 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 1:21 am
    The guy in this video - a man who has collected his thoughts, knows what he`s talking about, and has substantial evidence to help him fully and logically explain why he believes what he believes.

    You - a random person on the internet.


    Shut the drat up.
  85. Profile photo of Suicism
    Suicism Male 18-29
    3625 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 2:42 am
    I heard a guy on Christian radio today trying to equate the "odds" of a functioning organism evolving (without the advent of divine intervention) with 3 colors of confetti - Red, Blue and White - falling from the sky and forming an American Flag on one`s front lawn..

    Fail.
  86. Profile photo of tsiemens
    tsiemens Male 30-39
    515 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 5:18 am
    At least this vid was presented as a theory, some people actually preach it as fact.
  87. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 7:06 am
    At least this vid was presented as a theory, some people actually preach it as fact.
    *sigh*

    Maybe I`m being trolled, or maybe some people STILL don`t know what the word "Theory" in scientific context means.

    Look, kids. Evolution is a fact. Evolutionary Theory attempts to explain how evolution works. Also, gravity is a fact. Gravitational Theory attempts to explain how gravity works.
  88. Profile photo of PunchFace
    PunchFace Male 18-29
    29 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 7:37 am
    yeah, I`m with davy here. There is a gross misunderstanding of the difference between a theory and a scientific theory. When the majority of folks think of theory, they are thinking of something more like a hypothesis. Like Davy said, Gravity is a theory, in the scientific sense.
    " a scientific theory comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena."
    Citation: "Merriam-Webster.com Merriam-Webster Dictionary: Theory in Science"
  89. Profile photo of Sonsglow
    Sonsglow Male 18-29
    201 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 10:44 am
    Not that I don`t believe in evolution, because I do, but making videos about evolution by people with British accents does not make the videos more trustworthy, scientific, nor factual, and it surely doesn`t make people who don`t believe in evolution magically believe.
  90. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 12:00 pm
    Great video... It was like my entire undergraduate degree summed up in 10 minutes.

    It makes me upset when people think that accepting evolution means that you have to reject your faith in God. For me, evolution is one of the most spiritual concepts I`ve ever encountered. It makes me feel connected to the world around me, to the people, plants, animals, water, air etc etc. It makes me feel humble, and appreciate that life is precious and rare... a gift :)
    And to me, being humble, thankful and in connection with my fellow beings of earth, is what faith and God is all about.
  91. Profile photo of chimmeychang
    chimmeychang Male 30-39
    685 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 12:06 pm
    crockoduckpus!
  92. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 1:14 pm
    @Angilion, no need to be snide, I`m no peddler of anything, I`ve already admitted I don`t know what I believe is in fact,fact. It`s just what I believe and I may be right, I do not feel the need for you or anyone to agree with me,my relationship with God is between God and I. You can not disprove the existance of God any more than I or anyone can prove it. What I believe is FAITH based, it`s based on what I feel and on past personal experiances that have proven the existance of God to me on a very personal level.I would be foolish to think that just because I`ve experianced things that make me believe something could or should have any bearing on what you believe. You could worship a turnip for all I care, I would even be interested to hear your reasoning for worshiping said turnip and though I might not believe your turnip to be the one true God, I would not try to disuade you from your belief, people do preach it, the ones that feel the need to disprove God`s existance as part of it.
  93. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 1:30 pm
    @NottaSpy, ok let`s just assume I`m dumb as a stump. Please explain 1. what is a higher dimentional brane? and where did it come from? Go all the way back to the beginning how ever far in time it may be, back to the first second of any existance and tell me what preceeded that second. All I`m trying to say is that we don`t know everything. It must be a physical law that one cannot get something from nothing and I mean absolute, no atoms,electrons, whatever the smallest quantifying measure of matter is, nothing, how do you get something from that? Enlighten me so that I may emerge from the darkness that is my own ignorance. No snidness intended.
  94. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 1:44 pm
    @dix, exactly, truth is truth no matter who speaks it. Most religeons preach the same information, people just disagree on where the information came from, and that`s a shame.Allah,Buddha,Jehova all say not to run around stabbing folks in the head randomly, because it`s the truth, you really shouldn`t run around stabbing people for no reason. But to fight about who said it first is retarded. BTW, does one first have to be "tarded" in order to be "REtarded"?
  95. Profile photo of Calummac
    Calummac Male 13-17
    341 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 3:37 pm
    i couldnt watch past the first 2 minutes.
    the guys voice is so annoying
  96. Profile photo of kylegritchie
    kylegritchie Male 18-29
    20 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 5:01 pm
    @BigPappa "higher dimensional brane" i don`t think that that is a scientific term... i know there`s something called M-theory that has to do with cosmology and physics and the gravitational properties of particles(im not a scientist)

    The problem with trying to prove someone of faith wrong is that its just that FAITH whether you are atheist, christian, Muslim, or Jew (even though my self i was raised catholic and now am a atheist) when you belive in something without comprimise you yourself are now compromised humans need to question if not we will sit and never **evolve**..(hahahaha get it I made a joke
  97. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 6:36 pm
    @Angilion, no need to be snide, I`m no peddler of anything, I`ve already admitted I don`t know what I believe is in fact,fact.

    Then you proceeded to present it as fact without any evidence and make numerous false statements about people who disagree with you. If you think it`s snide to object to that, hard luck.

    Due to the post size limit, I didn`t even mention the rest of your post, in which you mixed up different things as if they were the same thing and drew ridiculous conclusions from doing so.

    Maybe you`re deliberately trying to deceive people. Maybe you`re just ignorant. Either way, you`re peddling creationist propaganda.
  98. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 6:42 pm
    It must be a physical law that one cannot get something from nothing and I mean absolute, no atoms,electrons, whatever the smallest quantifying measure of matter is, nothing, how do you get something from that?

    A question that applies equally well to yourself. You believe your god created the universe from nothing. So what created your god from nothing?

    Another god? Then what created that god?

    Your god always existed? Then why can`t the universe have always existed?

    Your question is one that (a) can`t be answered and (b) isn`t evidence of anything. It`s entirely meaningless.
  99. Profile photo of raikun12
    raikun12 Male 18-29
    586 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 6:54 pm
    I can`t focus on his video because it was too British.
  100. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 8:17 pm
    Not believing in evolution is like believing the earth is flat even though you can see the evidence that the earth is spherical for yourself...If you just took the time to pull your head out of your as.s.
  101. Profile photo of LilJackanape
    LilJackanape Female 60-69
    149 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 8:56 pm
    i just learned this in biology
  102. Profile photo of sbeelz
    sbeelz Male 30-39
    2868 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 10:30 pm
    "Not that I don`t believe in evolution, because I do, but making videos about evolution by people with British accents does not make the videos more trustworthy, scientific, nor factual, and it surely doesn`t make people who don`t believe in evolution magically believe."

    Well then, it`s a good thing that this video is scientific and factual.
  103. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    November 6, 2010 at 11:50 pm
    just read through the comments, apparently some people still claim the fossil record has no transitional species

    http://www.scottklarr.com/topic/164/10th-foundation-falsehood-of-creationism---cladistic-phylogenetics/

    please educate yourself
  104. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 12:32 am
    @BigPappa, Google Brane Cosmology for a better explanation than I can give.

    The point I was trying to make before is that science does not say that the Big Bang came from nothing. A current theory says that it sprang from a brane collision. You have setup a straw man argument. Science doesn`t say "something from nothing". Just as if I said to you, "its absurd that your God lives in a castle on a giant fluffy white cloud". I`m sure that isn`t what you believe of your God. That characterization of your God sounds just as absurd to you, as "something from nothing" sounds to me.

    Where did branes come from? What was the absolute beginning? I don`t know. I`m as dumb as a stump when it comes to those questions as well.

    Let me ask you, what did God create the heaven and earth from? You have a serious issue with something from nothing, but God seems to be fine with it.
  105. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 2:46 am
    Theories in science are likened to the explanations to what has been observed. It is relatively greater in weight to what a hypothesis is. If a hypothesis (an intelligent guess) is the first base of formulating a scientific law then theories are placed at the second base. These are the statements that are assumed to be true (because they seem so) even if there are no hundred percent concrete evidences. Nevertheless, theories are always presented to be true even if the claims in the said theories are mere speculations or a general agreement between a significant numbers of experts.

    Facts are observations whereas theories are the explanations to those observations.

    Theories are vague truths or unclear facts whereas facts are really facts.

    Evolution is not a fact, Not one species has been directly observed to change into a different species. Only adaptations have been directly observed.
  106. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 2:46 am
    @Nottaspy, I will Google that shortly, my point I was apearantly so unsuccessful in making was simply that nobody knows for shure how it all started and with that, I`m no more foolish for believing in God than you are for not. My problem is not with people like you, you make valid points and ask reasonable questions. It`s the people that start with the bible thumper comments that make out that anyone who believes in God is a zealot and a fool and that science has it all figured out,case closed,there is no God. There are many people on this site like that, just go back and read the comments on any post that mentions religeon.When in fact science does not have it all figured out, merely part of it. Oh, and I have no idea how God created something out of nothing and my head would probably explode if he explained it to me.
  107. Profile photo of BigPappa
    BigPappa Male 40-49
    163 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 3:02 am
    @Angilion, I don`t get your hostilty? I already stated that I have no idea where God came from. "Then you proceeded to present it as fact without any evidence and make numerous false statements about people who disagree with you. If you think it`s snide to object to that, hard luck", the only thing I present as fact is I believe in God, and don`t care if anyone else believes the same things I do or not. Please remind me of the numerous false statements I made or what I presented as fact other than no one knows how it all began.
  108. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 6:12 am
    If a hypothesis (an intelligent guess) is the first base of formulating a scientific law then theories are placed at the second base...

    Theories are vague truths or unclear facts whereas facts are really facts.

    Evolution is not a fact, Not one species has been directly observed to change into a different species. Only adaptations have been directly observed.
    With every due respect, you have no clue what you`re talking about.
  109. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36689 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:47 am
    The Earth is flat. Just look around you.... see! no curve!

  110. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 10:09 am
    Look, kids. Evolution is a fact. Evolutionary Theory attempts to explain how evolution works. Also, gravity is a fact. Gravitational Theory attempts to explain how gravity works.

    Actually, you`re a little off there, Davy. Yes, gravity exists, and gravitational theory attempts to explain how it works. But evolution is not a fact, and it is not what the theory of evolution is trying to explain. The theory of evolution is trying to explain the fact of our existence. And so far, the data (facts) that we have collected to this point seem to confirm that this theory is correct. I say "seem" because there is a possibility (albeit an infinitesimally small one) that data could be discovered that would disprove it and force us to consider another theory.

    I wouldn`t be holding my breath on that one, though.
  111. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 10:28 am
    I`ll bite:

    Why do you consider gravity a fact and evolution not a fact?

    Sure, a powerful enough deity or deities could be faking evolution for some reason...but the same is true for everything.

    It would be possible, for example, to use that to argue that MRSA infection is not a fact:

    A truly omnipotent and omniscient god could ensure that MRSA is present in every infection that we think is caused by MRSA, while concealing the real cause.
  112. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 10:35 am
    These are the statements that are assumed to be true (because they seem so) even if there are no hundred percent concrete evidences. Nevertheless, theories are always presented to be true even if the claims in the said theories are mere speculations or a general agreement between a significant numbers of experts.

    Facts are observations whereas theories are the explanations to those observations.

    Theories are vague truths or unclear facts whereas facts are really facts.

    You claim to be over 40.
    You claim to live in a 1st world country.
    You do not appear to be severely mentally handicapped, judging by your use of language.

    So I am not convinced that you really are as utterly devoid of understanding of the very basics of science as you would have to be to believe the completely untrue statements you have made.

    So I conclude that you`re probably lying.
  113. Profile photo of obhwfgirl
    obhwfgirl Female 18-29
    582 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 11:00 am
    I love that word evolution example they gave! Very nice :)
  114. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 11:48 am
    CrakrJak is pretty blatant. Science and facts are simply obstacles in his drive to prop up his conservative agenda. It is pretty safe to ignore his posts.
  115. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 2:23 pm
    Fine, I`ll revise my statement. The fact is that we are being pulled towards the earth, and gravitational theory attempts to explain how it works.

    The greater picture is this: we are confusing facts and theories for one another, even with overwhelming evidence to support said theory. Fact: we`re being pulled to the earth by some force. Theory: gravity. Fact: we exist, and there are some interesting similarities between species. Theory: evolution. Fact: earthquakes occur more in some parts of the world than others. Theory: tectonic plates.

    Calling them theories instead of facts does not diminish them in the slightest. Theories can be used to predict future outcomes, while facts are based solely on what has already passed. As we obtain more data, the theory must be sound enough to account for it all, or it should be discarded and rewritten. That`s the difference.
  116. Profile photo of kingpong
    kingpong Male 18-29
    639 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 2:52 pm
    Crocoducks should exist. Not in the sense the video proposed but because it would be superawesome.
  117. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 3:10 pm
    Actually, you`re a little off there, Davy... evolution is not a fact, and it is not what the theory of evolution is trying to explain. The theory of evolution is trying to explain the fact of our existence...

    ...The greater picture is this: we are confusing facts and theories for one another, even with overwhelming evidence to support said theory. Fact: we`re being pulled to the earth by some force. Theory: gravity. Fact: we exist, and there are some interesting similarities between species. Theory: evolution.
  118. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 3:10 pm
    Sorry mvangild, but that`s incorrect. Evolution says nothing about our existence (maybe you`re confusing evolution with abiogenesis?). The fact of evolution is simply an observation that species change (evolve) over time. That`s ALL it says. That, one can`t deny, is an observable fact.

    Your statement should read:

    "Fact: we`re being pulled to the earth by some force. Theory: gravity. Fact: Species evolve over time with successive generations. Theory: evolution."
  119. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 4:38 pm
    Davy, I`ll concede that point, that evolution doesn`t attempt to explain our existence. What it does, however, is attempt to explain the origin of the species that have been observed. So, maybe it would be more accurate to state "Fact: specie differentiation. Theory: evolution."

    I make that point because there are competing theories for specie differentiation, the most popular being punctuated equilibrium, which states that sexually reproducing species don`t gradually change over time, but are in stasis for a period of time, then undergo radical shifts resulting in two remarkably different species. This was developed to account for the lack of gradualism in the fossil record.

    Also, we haven`t been around for nearly long enough to be able to directly observe gradual shifts in species. Sure we see natural selection, but that`s a different process altogether.
  120. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 5:23 pm
    I think there`s another issue here. Many here think that if one does not subscribe to evolution, then one must subscribe to creationism. There is the possibility that more than one scientific theory fits the evidence at hand. That`s why I`m not completely on the evolution bandwagon: I think there may be another theory that better fits the fossil record.
  121. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:16 pm
    At risk of coming across as an ass (not my intention):

    Davy, I`ll concede that point, that evolution doesn`t attempt to explain our existence. What it does, however, is attempt to explain the origin of the species that have been observed.
    I apologise if I`m missing something, but isn`t that the same thing? As I stated, evolution explains the diversity of life we observe on the planet. Nothing to do with origins of where, when, or how life started. That would be abiogenesis.
  122. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:16 pm
    I make that point because there are competing theories for specie differentiation, the most popular being punctuated equilibrium
    That theory was popular in the early 70s, which made scientific sense at the time. Since then, the fossil record has become much more complete, and would more suggest Lyellian gradualism. I`d hardly call it "the most popular" amongst evolutionary biologists in 2010.

    This was developed to account for the lack of gradualism in the fossil record.
    There`s an astounding amount of gradualism in the fossil record, if we examine it. The evolution of the horse springs to mind. I won`t insult you by providing a link, you know where to find that info, you seem to be well-versed in evolutionary science (no attack or sly dig).
  123. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:19 pm
    Also, we haven`t been around for nearly long enough to be able to directly observe gradual shifts in species.
    Dude, Wolf --> Poodle. In an evolutionary blink of an eye, a couple of centuries. Sure, that was human engineering, but it proves it can happen, if the right environmental pressures are applied.
  124. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:26 pm
    Sorry for quad post guys.

    Sure we see natural selection, but that`s a different process altogether.
    Yes, yes it is. Evolution is a fact, natural selection is a theory/mechanism/explanation. See previous.

    You`re descending to the same level of confusion that you originally accused me of. Evolution is a fact, if we accept that species observably change over time (ignoring the obvious religious freaks who shout otherwise). Darwinian natural selection is one part of one theory to explain Evolution, but many modern evolutionary biologists refute that natural selection is the driving force behind evolution. Citing Natural Selection=Evolution is as wrong as stating that Einstein`s Theory of Relativity=Gravity. The latter is an observable fact, the former is an espoused scientific theory which attempts to explain the fact.

    Anyways, old thread is old. I`ll rejoin this interesting discussion (meant with respect) on the next thread on evolution.
  125. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:32 pm
    Please remind me of the numerous false statements I made or what I presented as fact other than no one knows how it all began.

    1) That the existence of your particular god is a proven fact.

    2) That "alot" of people who don`t deny the existence of evolution say that it directly disproves the existence of all gods.

    3) That a larger "alot" of people preach evolution.

    Since there`s no such word as "alot", you might have meant anything by it, but I`m sure you meant it to mean a large number.

    4) That thinking that humanity can have a significant effect on the environment makes it impossible to acknowledge that evolution exists.

    5) That people who acknowledge that evolution exists think that it has stopped.

    All in your post on Friday, November 05, 2010 3:16:22 PM.

    They`re all false to the point of being bizarre. 4 and 5 don`t even make any sense at all.
  126. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:35 pm
    @Angilion, I don`t get your hostilty?

    Hopefully my last post will help you understand it.

    I am hostile to people who are hostile to science and misrepresent it. I have numerous very good reasons for that, philosophical, practical and personal. Here`s a good personal one - without science, my mother would be dead. In fact, she would have died before I was born and so I wouldn`t exist.
  127. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 7:42 pm
    The greater picture is this: we are confusing facts and theories for one another, even with overwhelming evidence to support said theory. Fact: we`re being pulled to the earth by some force. Theory: gravity. Fact: we exist, and there are some interesting similarities between species. Theory: evolution.

    Aha, now I see your mistake. You`re doing what you think other people are doing - confusing facts and theories.

    Fact: Objects are pulled towards each other by a force that we`ve called `gravity`.

    Theory of gravity: An explanation of how gravity works.

    Fact: Living things evolve.

    Theory of evolution: An explanation of how evolution works.

    You`re also confusing facts and theories with other facts and theories - evolution does not cover the existence of life, just its development.
  128. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 10:54 pm
    "Not one species has been directly observed to change into a different species. Only adaptations have been directly observed."

    1. There are species that we know existed Y years ago but don`t exist now.

    2. There are species that exist now that didn`t exist X years ago.

    3. There is no magical machine that made the new species appear to replace the old ones.

    Is is really that hard to see the connection without isolating a two populations of one species and observing them until they can no longer mate? I mean... if that`s your reason for evolution not existing then i guess God doesn`t either right? When did we directly observe him/it/her?
  129. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 10:57 pm
    It`s kinda like saying "well I KNOW this hollow glass ball used to contain water and NOW it contains steam, but I didn`t see it change so obviously the water poofed out of existence and the steam poofed into existence."
  130. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 11:28 pm
    Is is really that hard to see the connection without isolating a two populations of one species and observing them until they can no longer mate?

    That has been observed in nature. Your rebuttal is true, but it`s rebutting a point that`s invalid anyway.

    It has also been partially observed by people doing exactly what you (correctly) state isn`t necessary - isolating two populations of one species (in different environments) and observing them until they can no longer mate. The animals tested could have mated between the groups after they were rejoined, but chose not to. It can`t have been a conscious choice - the experiments were done on flies. Run the experiment longer and they`d be seperate species. Not that it`s necessary, because there are numerous examples of speciation occuring in nature.
  131. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 7, 2010 at 11:35 pm
    Dude, Wolf --> Poodle. In an evolutionary blink of an eye, a couple of centuries. Sure, that was human engineering, but it proves it can happen, if the right environmental pressures are applied.

    I`m going to emphasise this point.

    Selective breeding *is* evolution. It`s not just dogs. It`s almost all animals closely connected with humans. We`ve used evolution to significantly alter them.

    Sure, it`s evolution by human selection rather than by natural selection, but it`s still evolution.

    It`s like farming. Humans don`t actually create the crops. They direct a natural process.

    Farming is also an example of evolution by human selection, as food crops have also been changed by selective breeding.
  132. Profile photo of PunchFace
    PunchFace Male 18-29
    29 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 2:40 am
    The main problem with using dogs as the example here, is that the resultant offspring can still successfully breed. Granted, it shows a variation in physical characteristics caused by genetic manipulation, but no speciation. Human manipulation of the Equus genus however, different story.. Through artificial selection by humans we have created a few species within this genus which do not produce viable offspring when they breed. Hinny (offspring of a male horse and female donkey) are all infertile. The two parents are genetically different due to a different number of chromosomes (Horse 64, donkey 62). Speciation caused by a gradual variation in genetics. We chose to breed larger, more elegant animals (horses) and the more docile pack animals (donkeys) and while doing this created two distinct species.
  133. Profile photo of SvampeBob
    SvampeBob Male 18-29
    3076 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 4:42 am
    the worst thing is that I`ve heard of people saying "my grandparents are not monkeys and "I wasn`t born a monkey look at this picture" < insert face palm >
  134. Profile photo of NottaSpy
    NottaSpy Male 40-49
    881 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 9:01 am
    I`ve seen a lot of arguments about Evolution before, but this is the first time I`m seen both people on the same side arguing basically the same thing.
  135. Profile photo of I-IS-BORED
    I-IS-BORED Male 18-29
    2419 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 10:28 am
    "Your rebuttal is true, but it`s rebutting a point that`s invalid anyway."

    I was just showing that even when assuming it was valid, you still get the same conclusion.
  136. Profile photo of PringleMan
    PringleMan Female 13-17
    1356 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 3:35 pm
    very nice, but i don`t think the people needing to be convinced evolution is real would do so by learning all the facts about it, or taking the time out of their busy schedules to watch this vid. Because it`s boring. sorry.
  137. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 7:13 pm
    At risk of coming across as an ass (not my intention):

    Davy, I`ll concede that point, that evolution doesn`t attempt to explain our existence. What it does, however, is attempt to explain the origin of the species that have been observed.

    I apologise if I`m missing something, but isn`t that the same thing? As I stated, evolution explains the diversity of life we observe on the planet. Nothing to do with origins of where, when, or how life started. That would be abiogenesis.

    No problem, Davy. I appreciate this type of debate. Origin of species isn`t my wording, it`s Darwin`s. I couldn`t come up with a way to word it originally that still got the point across. My best understanding is that evolution theorizes how each species originated, which is what you said in your last comment.
  138. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 8:14 pm
    Davy, poodles were more artificial selection as opposed to gradualism. Animals were being bred for beneficial traits. I won`t go into the definition of gradualism here. Horses weren`t as gradual as you think they were. There were times when there was some gradualism, but others where the evolutionary line changed rather abruptly, where a species and its `ancestor` to coexist, even if only for a short time.
  139. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 8:15 pm
    Anyways, old thread is old. I`ll rejoin this interesting discussion (meant with respect) on the next thread on evolution.

    No problem, Davy. I look forward to it.
  140. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 8:28 pm
    As for my last post on this thread:

    Theory: a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena

    Fact: a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true

    That is why evolution is a theory and not a fact. As I said before, being a theory does not diminish it. Sure, the fossil record shows it to be viable. But the fossil record isn`t complete, and won`t be completed within our lifetimes. As I said previously, maybe there`s data that could disprove evolution as we know it, but I am not holding my breath on that one.
  141. Profile photo of JGsox33
    JGsox33 Male 18-29
    47 posts
    November 8, 2010 at 11:14 pm
    (damnit, got cut off)
    It`s funny that some people find comfort in "rules" like that... If there is no ultimatum, no form of eternal punishment, they might not have morals.
    I heard one devout Christian argue that he truly believed people would not know it is wrong to murder a person unless they read the bible, believed in God, etc. It was actually from that documentary by Bill Maher.
    BUT ANYWAY. Evolution is true. Duh.
  142. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    November 9, 2010 at 12:03 am
    Theory: a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena

    Fact: a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true

    That is why evolution is a theory and not a fact.

    That`s why evolution is a fact - it is known to be true by observation. Also, humans have used it for millenia - selective breeding is evolution in which the selection is made by people instead of nature. If evolution didn`t exist, selective breeding wouldn`t work.

    The theory of evolution is a theory to explain how the fact of evolution works. The theory of evolution is not evolution itself.
  143. Profile photo of kingadaQ
    kingadaQ Male 18-29
    21 posts
    November 15, 2010 at 4:39 pm
    YAWN!
  144. Profile photo of dielaughing
    dielaughing Female 13-17
    129 posts
    November 24, 2010 at 12:06 am
    Wow...really informative video. And I have a biology test Monday so thanks! :D

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