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Category: Misc
Date: 10/01/10 10:02 AM

94 Responses to The Intelligence Debate – Stephen Fry (Unedited)

  1. Profile photo of Thjoass
    Thjoass Male 18-29
    53 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 9:24 am
    Link: The Intelligence Debate - Stephen Fry (Unedited) - Stephen Fry gives his opinion on the Catholic Church. Long but soooo worth it.
  2. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4682 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 10:04 am
    And that`s the argument over since it`s physically impossible to argue with Stephen Fry.
  3. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 10:12 am
    I adore Stephen Fry.
  4. Profile photo of comrade_b
    comrade_b Male 18-29
    295 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 10:30 am
    all i could think was "what happened to his nose?"
  5. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 10:34 am
    @comrade:

    He hit some guy`s balls with it. :)
  6. Profile photo of whocares3725
    whocares3725 Male 18-29
    310 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 10:39 am
    Wow a long video that actually WAS worth watching all the way through on IAB.

    Very eloquent.
  7. Profile photo of zombunny
    zombunny Female 18-29
    2525 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 10:47 am
    I`ve seen this before but I watched it again just because it`s so great. The rest of the debate is also worth watching.
  8. Profile photo of bataleon27
    bataleon27 Male 18-29
    1178 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 10:52 am
    "all i could think was "what happened to his nose?""

    He broke it when he was a boy and it healed incorrectly.
  9. Profile photo of Isobel
    Isobel Female 18-29
    245 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:00 am
    Stephen Fry is my new hero! <3
  10. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:02 am
    He hit some guy`s balls with it. :)
    I lol`d.
  11. Profile photo of toqr
    toqr Male 18-29
    199 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:03 am
    He`s a fantastic speaker. +1
  12. Profile photo of digbychicken
    digbychicken Male 18-29
    235 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:05 am
    fry for Prime minister!
  13. Profile photo of tn11
    tn11 Male 18-29
    1587 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:05 am
    amazingly well spoken. What was the point of the debate? To debate the Catholic Church, or religion? As a Lutheran I enjoy seeing the Catholic Church get taken down a peg
  14. Profile photo of inaria
    inaria Female 18-29
    1515 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:07 am
    Hear Hear
  15. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:10 am
    There are not many people in the world who could have stated their case better than Stephen Fry did here.

    Just a well delivered opinion and one I could most certainly agree with on all points.
  16. Profile photo of almightybob1
    almightybob1 Male 18-29
    4290 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:19 am
    What was the point of the debate? To debate the Catholic Church, or religion?
    The motion was "The Catholic Church is a force for good in the world". Anne Widdecombe and Archbishop John Onaiyekan were the "for" panel, and Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens were the "against" speakers.

    The audience were polled, before and after. They responded thus:

    Before

    For - 678
    Against - 1102
    Undecided - 346


    After

    For - 268
    Against - 1876
    Undecided - 34
  17. Profile photo of SEpth
    SEpth Female 18-29
    47 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:21 am
    wooooooooooo! *standing ovation*
  18. Profile photo of Swisskid10
    Swisskid10 Male 13-17
    103 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:25 am
    @digby
    No, I don`t think he`d make a good PM, anyway he`s fine in his current job as an intelligent, witty quiz show host. But yeah, I`ve seen this before and I still love it. Anne Widdecombe is insane though,she left the anglican church and joined the catholic church as soon as they allowed women priests (the anglican church not the catholic one).
  19. Profile photo of Thesphinx
    Thesphinx Male 18-29
    353 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:25 am
    Pretty good speech. I like that he spoke only logically and didn`t resort to insults or angry spiteful remarks. It convinced me, to say the least.
  20. Profile photo of greggpethers
    greggpethers Male 18-29
    271 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:37 am
    hero.

    perfect speech. bang on.
  21. Profile photo of Buiadh
    Buiadh Male 30-39
    6739 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:41 am
    old link is old, is this not from about a year ago now?
  22. Profile photo of the_windy
    the_windy Female 18-29
    1589 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:49 am
    There`s just something about this guy that pulls me in and makes me want to listen.
    He`s an amazing public speaker (never looked at his sheet, except to quote)!
  23. Profile photo of lifeavoidit
    lifeavoidit Male 30-39
    267 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:49 am
    Fry is GOD
  24. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:54 am
    I really do not place much stock in the intellectual opinions of thespians in any subject except how to portray characters.
  25. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 11:56 am
    @the windy:
    Because maybe he`s good at his job as an actor?
  26. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36660 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    intellectual opinions on the subject of magic..... hahahahahahahahahaha
  27. Profile photo of jakeyboy69
    jakeyboy69 Male 13-17
    148 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 12:42 pm
    FRY= LEGEND!
  28. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:04 pm
    1) The Catholic church has a lower incidence of child abuse than the general public.

    2) I don`t see why Stephen Fry is opposed to what those Catholic priests choose to do with their own bodies. (It`s almost as if that isn`t the issue at all).

    3) I`ve seen this debate on IAB 3 times. I have yet to hear anyone but Hitchens and Fry speak. To be fair, I guess I could post the rest, so I will at some point.
  29. Profile photo of Lizzy_girl
    Lizzy_girl Female 18-29
    47 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:05 pm
    Stephen Fry is eight million kinds of epic. Very well spoken.
  30. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:11 pm
    Gorgack:

    "And that`s the argument over since it`s physically impossible to argue with Stephen Fry."

    To be fair, and contradicting my first post to an extent, I feel sorry for anyone debating Fry on any given topic.

    Doubly so when that person is Anne Widdecombe. I also happen to think this question is a tough one to address, in the UK, which is filled with people who broke from the Catholic Church, and who are for the most part secular to anti-theistic.

    Especially saying as my one qualm with religion is it`s religious bodies, I would probably concede the question as stated.

    I`d love to debate Stephen on a topic I felt strongly opposed to.
  31. Profile photo of DCDJ
    DCDJ Male 18-29
    6 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:11 pm
    @handys003

    Stephen Fry is an actor, but he`s also a director, writer, journalist, and political activist.
  32. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:22 pm
    Stephen, if you`re reading.

    A formal debate would be awesomesauce. Also, failing that, an autograph.
  33. Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:33 pm
    "1) The Catholic church has a lower incidence of child abuse than the general public."

    So because everyone else does it it must be ok? What a quaint argument. The church is attacked so vigorously because it is supposed to embody purity and innocence.
  34. Profile photo of yanging
    yanging Male 18-29
    172 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:42 pm
    and because they tried to quietly cover everything up.
  35. Profile photo of iceblack
    iceblack Male 18-29
    551 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:43 pm
    @Baal
    1) And your point is? I agree with "yanging" about this

    2) He isn`t opposed to what priest choose, but to what they force other people to do even when they don`t have the experience or a good point (Other than "virtues") to claim what`s immoral and what is not. It`s like a Biologist teaching Art, doesn`t make sense, does it?

    3) True, it`s an old link. But the poor Archbishop`s words can be resumed with this: "Church is here because it`s good and we have people following us"... That`s it. And the old lady, well, frankly I had a HARD time listening to her, her voice gave me a headache and made no good point.
  36. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 1:48 pm
    @DCDJ:
    and all that makes him what? Did he invent or discover anything? Hmm... a writer who shoots off his mouth via the pen. A director who shoots off his agenda by influence in his directing. An actor who spends his time developing a character through method acting. A political activist speaking for an organization? Hmm... who did that also? Oh wait I know. Ron L Hubbard comes to mind?
  37. Profile photo of DCDJ
    DCDJ Male 18-29
    6 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:06 pm
    @handys003

    Yes, lots of people do similar things, but one of many differences between L. Ron Hubbard and Stephen Fry is that Stephen Fry never invented a religion.

    My point was that he is not just a thespian, and is useful to listen to due to his experience and intelligence. Even if he was just a clever actor, that doesn`t mean he`s useless and untrustworthy on everything except acting. We can`t rely just on the inventors and discoverers of everything, there are some people who are experts or significantly knowledgeable too.

    I have never invented or discovered anything, but I am still knowledgeable enough to be trustworthy on a number of subjects, none of which are my profession.
  38. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:06 pm
    lmao You discount an opinion entirely based on a person`s occupation?

    Disagree with the message or his opinion based on something concrete. Intelligence is not measured by occupation.

    If you were involved in this debate, hypothetically of course, would you simply say, "Well Mr. Fry, you are an actor and therefore your opinion isn`t even relevant."?

    Too often, the last resort when folks can`t debate what was said is to attack the person speaking.

  39. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:07 pm
    Everyone don`t be so infatuated with an actor/actress. That`s what they do for a living so naturally a good actor is going to give a good surmise.

    Some good old wisdom I learned:

    Wisdom #1: Take what anyone says with a grain of salt.
    Wisdom #2: In all things there must be in needs of opposition.
    Wisdom #3: When in doubt go back to Wisdom #1.

    ;) Have a nice day!
  40. Profile photo of DCDJ
    DCDJ Male 18-29
    6 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:15 pm
    Yay, I won.
  41. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:26 pm
    @DCDJ:
    LOL! Okay you won then. Now go back to the Wisdom rules.
  42. Profile photo of Swisskid10
    Swisskid10 Male 13-17
    103 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:29 pm
    @handys003
    But Stephen is so much more than just an actor. He`s a quiz show host, a political activist, an actor, a very clever man, and formerly part of comedy duo Fry and Laurie. Also Melchard in Blackadder.
  43. Profile photo of Schro
    Schro Female 18-29
    77 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:33 pm
    Ann Widdecome is on Strictly Come Dancing. Spread the word.
  44. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:53 pm
    @Swisskid10
    I never heard of Fry and Laurie. Not much British programming out this way in Hawaii. We have BBC America, but that`s it. I did watch a few clips on the internet out of curiosity. They were mildly funny. However John Cleese IMO was the funniest from Britain. Especially from Fawlty Towers series. I like Rowan Atkinson very much also. That man has a very clever wit.
  45. Profile photo of SPARTAKITTY
    SPARTAKITTY Female 18-29
    2120 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 2:55 pm
    @handys003
    Boo, what does his being an actor have to do with it? If Hugh Laurie got on that podium, being a well-liked actor, and he talked about how everyone should go off and spread AIDS, I doubt he would get good feedback about it.
  46. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 3:07 pm
    @SPARTAKITTY go read the Wisdom rules.
  47. Profile photo of drworm2002
    drworm2002 Male 30-39
    662 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 3:18 pm
    He is a very educated man. Just because he became and actor it doesn`t mean he doesn`t know what he is talking about.
  48. Profile photo of Zieveraar
    Zieveraar Male 30-39
    415 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 3:47 pm
    Great points, very well brought (but then it is Stephen Fry, so no surprise there), not easy to contradict him, there were plenty more arguments to be said for his position.
  49. Profile photo of ElMustache
    ElMustache Male 18-29
    1625 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    Brilliant!
  50. Profile photo of spanerbulb
    spanerbulb Male 30-39
    1244 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 4:08 pm
    One of the best arguments against the Catholic Church I have ever heard, well done Mr.Fry
  51. Profile photo of jag1989
    jag1989 Male 18-29
    47 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 4:13 pm
    @Baalthazaq

    You`re kind of missing the point with your first argument.

    “The Catholic church has a lower incidence of child abuse than the general public.”

    The point is that, in general, Bishops, Priests and those within the Catholic Church committing child-rape are trusted and well respected individuals in the community. When you compare their level of child abuse to doctors, the police and other similarly trusted and respected people I’m sure you’ll find the Church’s level is significantly higher.

    However, I can’t argue with the fact that the church probably does have less child-rape than the very bottom, disgraceful and appalling level of modern society (which will likely always exist). So congratulations to the church on not being on the VERY bottom rung of the ladder, but one whole step above it……down there below the rest of us.
  52. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    If you have a british accent you sound intellegent!
  53. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    The Catholic Church speaks of the Holy Trinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I call bullsh*t. The REAL Holy Trinity very clearly consists of Fry, Attenborough and Sagan. I rest my case.
  54. Profile photo of Oscola
    Oscola Male 18-29
    349 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    "The REAL Holy Trinity very clearly consists of Fry, Attenborough and Sagan."


    I`ve always said I want Fry as an uncle and Attenborough as my grandad, so much so that if I talk about grandad to my girlfriend she knows who I mean. Sagan is a don too, been watching videos by him recently, but I don`t want a massive family.
  55. Profile photo of DickenMcHunt
    DickenMcHunt Male 18-29
    1299 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 4:57 pm
    @Jag

    The real issue is that there is no option for justice in these scenarios. Even if it IS true that the child rape/molestation in the Catholic Church is less than the general populace (which is impossible to determine, By the way) we know for a FACT that the conviction rate of members of the catholic church is 0%, so as long as society at large punishes even ONE offender they outperform the Catholic Church.

    @DavyMid

    The real Holy Trinity is Truth, Fact and Reality.
  56. Profile photo of Tisjokar
    Tisjokar Male 18-29
    985 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 5:19 pm
    Amazing
  57. Profile photo of LithiumOne
    LithiumOne Male 18-29
    153 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 6:22 pm
    Repost?
  58. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 6:35 pm
    Yanging + Jag:

    "So because everyone else does it it must be ok? What a quaint argument."

    Then don`t make the argument. I never did.
    Stephen (the guy in the video, remember?), is stating an argument against the proposition that the Church is overall, a force for good.

    If the Church is less evil than the general populace, it brings the average up, not down.

    What does bringing up child abuse do, that cannot be done for every other organization in the world? As the Church is lower than the average, that means the banking system could more readily have the charges levied against it.

    Politics, Wall Street, Estate Agents, Farmers, Firemen, Doctors, Scientists, can then all MORE SO be said to not be a force for good.

    Iceblack:
    2) You missed my point. I was criticizing (via demonstration) misleading terms used to convey an emotional rather than logical response.
  59. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 6:40 pm
    Also Jag:

    You`ll find the incidence of child abuse higher in positions of trust, not lower. Child abusers tend to seek out positions of trust, which is why the boy scouts, teachers, and so on and so forth all had serious problems (and in some cases still do).

    The church is one of the few that despite a position of power has a lower incidence rate.

    So the opposite of your speculation, however to be fair, I haven`t provided any studies yet. Feel free to google the numbers on child abuse for a start.

    I posted them somewhere on IAB like a year ago.

    Additionally, to others:
    I`m fairly sure Stephen is capable of making his own points and elaborating on them. If those were his points I fail to see with his level of competence why he wouldn`t bring any of them up.

    I`m going to go ahead and assume his points were the ones he made, not the ones you`re making on his behalf.
  60. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 6:52 pm
    And finally, here`s a link to at least one of my posts on the topic with some sources, but not all.

    Also, to clarify, when I say:
    "Parents were completely blind because they had this stereotype in their mind of the "abusive stranger" while 80% of abuse cases were by relative. This is the same dangerous blinkering."

    I`m talking about "Stranger Danger". That idiotic filtering system of trying to "spot" pedophiles based on targeting strangers. This made parents think pedophiles where mainly strangers, and we ended up with more abuse, because they weren`t looking at the big picture and the larger threat.

    So please, because this is genuinely dangerous, don`t concentrate on the 0.002% of cases. It gives the 99.998% cover.
  61. Profile photo of boogersunite
    boogersunite Male 13-17
    197 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 7:18 pm
    So baalthazaq, after typing that there wall of text ( avaible below if you missed it ), how do you feeall hmm?
  62. Profile photo of patticakes
    patticakes Female 18-29
    463 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 7:44 pm
    Criticizing Catholic Church is way too easy for this panty waisted coward. How about being a real man and criticizing Islam?
  63. Profile photo of Thjoass
    Thjoass Male 18-29
    53 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 7:56 pm
    @patticakes

    why is it easy to speak your opinion about the vatican and the catholic church? or for that matter why is it hard to do so about Islam?
    And im pretty sure that for him it had nothing to do with bravery.
    im gonna assume your just a petty minded fool, who cannot recognize a great speach when they hear one. have fun looking for more stuff to criticize blindly.
  64. Profile photo of Simcoe
    Simcoe Male 30-39
    126 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 8:10 pm
    IAB Repost.
  65. Profile photo of mentott510
    mentott510 Male 60-69
    210 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 9:00 pm
    I agree with Mr. Fry (whose work as an actor and writer I have always enjoyed) that many religions have lost their way over time and no longer function as a means of enhancing the life experience. Instead of bringing people together and working for the common good, they choose to practice intolerance for differing points of view. The organizations, in my experience, that come closest fulfilling this task are the various addiction recovery groups based on the 12-Step Program of Alcoholics Anonymous. The 12 Step method is simply the universal formula for success=spirituality=hope and joy. Learn and apply the formula and anything can be accomplished. Learning to be successful involves learning to value and respect others and their points of view. There are no appointed leaders, just people interested in helping themselves and others to a better life. The term "God" is short for "Good Orderly Direction". Many religions have become perversions of their founder`s intentio
  66. Profile photo of KoalaMeatPie
    KoalaMeatPie Male 18-29
    2578 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 9:26 pm
    Ty Simcoe
  67. Profile photo of obhwfgirl
    obhwfgirl Female 18-29
    582 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 9:35 pm
    Not to insult the beautiful and intelligent speech of Stephen Fry, but....

    I just had a brain-gasm.
  68. Profile photo of Barnk
    Barnk Male 30-39
    486 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 9:56 pm
    he`s right.
  69. Profile photo of Omphaloskept
    Omphaloskept Male 40-49
    181 posts
    October 1, 2010 at 10:43 pm
    It is the Intelligence SQUARED debate. And it`s always excellent. You should subscribe to the podcast...
  70. Profile photo of DickenMcHunt
    DickenMcHunt Male 18-29
    1299 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 1:12 am
    @ patticakes

    "Criticizing Catholic Church is way too easy for this panty waisted coward. How about being a real man and criticizing Islam?"

    Uh- because that wasn`t the topic they were discussing? That would be like me talking about Mexican food during an oral report on China.
  71. Profile photo of NinjaB0b
    NinjaB0b Male 18-29
    173 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 1:55 am
    bravo
  72. Profile photo of Ozmose
    Ozmose Male 30-39
    448 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 3:13 am
    Fantastic.
    I wish people could turn on their TV`s every night an see this kind of intelligent oratory. I think the would be a better place if they could. Too bad they`d rather feed their stupidity with Fox News and MTV.
  73. Profile photo of mentott510
    mentott510 Male 60-69
    210 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 6:54 am
    Any philosophy (point of view) that remains stagnant and prohibits its subscribers from seeking new information or chooses to ignore and respond effectively to significant developments in world affairs is doomed from the start. Islam is in the same category if practiced as originally written. It is another manifesto that does not tolerate other viewpoints and advocates, as does Christianity, the murder of those who would challenge its tenants. The overall effect is to stifle meaningful conversation which is the source of enlightenment. Sam Harris.com is worth a visit for more of this discussion. To get some idea of how creative people can be in developing mythology to explain things read/view the work of Joseph Campbell. Gandhi and Martin Luther King were students of Jainism, a totally non-violent philosophy still practiced by a few million people in India. I always imagined Jesus as being a practical, well-intended political activist whose goal was to lead people out of chaos.
  74. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 6:59 am
    As a Christian (a Methodist), I have to say I completely respect Stephen Fry and agree with him on many of the points that he raises.

    I think the atheist movement would be better off with him at the helm than the narrow-minded, contentious and insolent twat that is Richard Dawkins.
  75. Profile photo of BostonKaiser
    BostonKaiser Male 40-49
    1185 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 7:48 am
    Frelling awesome.
  76. Profile photo of Afromeister
    Afromeister Male 13-17
    42 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 8:10 am
    Webz, there`s no one at the `helm` of atheism?
  77. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 8:39 am
    @Afromeister

    You may not think so, and that`s fair enough, but I know plenty of atheists who raise Dawkins up as as though he were their `god`.
  78. Profile photo of krisley
    krisley Male 18-29
    525 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 10:07 am
    @ Ozmose, I do wish you wouldn`t compare MTV to Fox News. It makes MTV look bad.
  79. Profile photo of pyrrhios
    pyrrhios Male 30-39
    185 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 10:40 am
    Intelligence, knowledge, wit, humanism, I am a fan of his for sure.
  80. Profile photo of ROK9
    ROK9 Male 18-29
    1834 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 12:26 pm
    not bad
  81. Profile photo of magoo22
    magoo22 Male 30-39
    660 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 6:25 pm
    Stephen Fry is a true polymath. Agree or disagree with his views, you have to admire his use of words and the reasoning behind them.
  82. Profile photo of eskimo9
    eskimo9 Male 18-29
    703 posts
    October 2, 2010 at 6:46 pm
    IAB Rule #1: take one post, add into title "religion, atheist, intelligence", sit back and wait for 7 pages of comments.
  83. Profile photo of Flibmeister
    Flibmeister Female 18-29
    833 posts
    October 3, 2010 at 12:32 am
    stephen fry is my hero.
  84. Profile photo of r3tr0r0ck3r
    r3tr0r0ck3r Male 18-29
    187 posts
    October 3, 2010 at 6:11 am
    Started watching, couldn`t stop. What an excellent orator he is.
  85. Profile photo of Maps
    Maps Male 18-29
    51 posts
    October 3, 2010 at 6:52 am
    "Eternal adventure of trying to discover moral truth in the world"
    Why do atheists always need to sugarcoat their beliefs? Can`t we ever just say, "As far as discovering morality, we are SOL."
  86. Profile photo of Isafan
    Isafan Male 18-29
    243 posts
    October 3, 2010 at 7:02 am
    IT`S ALL THE JEWS FAULT! THEY`RE TRYING TO DEMOLISH MY CATHOLIC CHURCH. ... The pope told me that. What he says was ordaned by god. GET THE JEWS!
  87. Profile photo of MrPeabody
    MrPeabody Male 30-39
    1920 posts
    October 3, 2010 at 10:06 am
    @Gerry1of1

    "intellectual opinions on the subject of magic..."

    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
    Arthur C. Clarke

    If there is a God, then He has to be the greatest scientist ever, and is responsible for creating what we know as science in the first place. It is man`s lack of understanding of what he did that relegates him to the realm of magic.

    A friend of mine during a discussion said that scientist`s have created new strains of fruit flies in a laboratory. I said well now go explain to them what the scientists did so that they can understand it and make it not sound like magic.

    Maybe one of the smartest things God ever did was not try to explain himself.
  88. Profile photo of k-two
    k-two Male 40-49
    122 posts
    October 3, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    Watched all of it. I think he`s mostly right. Well spoken, Stephen.
  89. Profile photo of paddy215
    paddy215 Male 18-29
    1677 posts
    October 7, 2010 at 7:23 am
    Most of what Mr Fry says here is true, but the whole premise for his argument was that the Catholic church isn`t a source of good in the world. The church does pooloads of good work all over the planet, therfore he`s wrong. Just because it has also been a source of bad, does not mean its not a source of good. If his argument was that it is a source of bad then it would have actually held weight.

    Also, saying the church isn`t a source of good because some of its members have committed child abuse is like saying education isn`t a source of good because many educators have also committed the same crime.
  90. Profile photo of DickenMcHunt
    DickenMcHunt Male 18-29
    1299 posts
    October 14, 2010 at 10:01 am
    @paddy215

    If a man breaks into a suburban home, ties up a mother, a father and a child. Tortures them, toys with with them and ultimately murders each slowly in front of the other that is bad. If he is a member of his church, volunteers his time to help the needy, donates thousands of dollars to the poor, holds fundraisers and does LOADS of other good stuff; that is good. Is this man a good man, or a bad man? (BTK Killer, FYI)

    The fact that the Catholic Church DOES do good does not negate the bad that they do. Their is no atonement that erases the mark of evil only that which forgives its presence. But like all criminals they have the opportunity rehabilitate... but they haven`t and they continue to be criminal. For that reason the BAD still taints the GOOD. They must STOP the bad before his argument can be considered invalid.
  91. Profile photo of DickenMcHunt
    DickenMcHunt Male 18-29
    1299 posts
    October 14, 2010 at 10:08 am
    @Paddy215

    "...saying the church isn`t ...good ...is like saying education isn`t ...good because many educators ...committed the same crime."

    We don`t say the education system is bad (for THAT reason,) we say that the teacher is bad. If the school, however covered up what the teacher did, or circumvented international law to prevent the prosecution of that teacher, or simply transferred that teacher to another department... then yes, the SCHOOL would be bad. And if that decision came from an body that controlled all schools nations wide (which there isn`t) then the school system would be bad, as a whole. This is the chain of accountability and blame.

    The difference is that the schools fire these people and the law prosecutes these people. Additionally the abuse in schools is not nearly as widespread nor has it enjoyed such longevity.

    (Continued Above...)
  92. Profile photo of DickenMcHunt
    DickenMcHunt Male 18-29
    1299 posts
    October 14, 2010 at 10:16 am
    Since 1985 there have been 17 convictions for child molestation, and 70+ out of court settlements for people involved with the catholic church, represented BY the catholic church. Numbers for how many children/people have been effected are extremely difficult to accurately depict based on factors that include: Time, Fear/Emotion/Distress/Embarrassment, Location, Mental blocks, etc...

    If the Catholic Church did NOT stand by these people it could be removed from the chain of responsibility. If the Catholic Church did not try to OFFICIALLY HIDE the fact that these events were occurring, it could be removed from the chain of responsibility. If they had not pulled accused members of the church into Papal jurisdiction in order to circumvent law and prevent legal action, they could remove themselves from the chain of responsibility.

    But they didn`t and for of that: The person that did it, their ministry AND the "The Church" as a whole are ALL responsible.
  93. Profile photo of Dagaz20
    Dagaz20 Female 18-29
    382 posts
    December 7, 2010 at 9:02 am
    this is why Stephen Fry is my idol

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