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Category: Entertainment
Date: 09/23/10 02:00 PM

104 Responses to Red Skelton Pledge of Allegiance

  1. Profile photo of mrpuddle
    mrpuddle Male 18-29
    385 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 2:18 pm
    Link: Red Skelton Pledge of Allegiance - Just think, he said this forty (40) years ago.
  2. Profile photo of rickbub
    rickbub Male 40-49
    293 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 2:35 pm
    Excellent! I love it! ....Aaaaaand flame war in 3...2...1...
  3. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7426 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    genius, absolutely genius. lets keep those two states, ditch those two words, and everything should be just fine.
  4. Profile photo of TopperHey
    TopperHey Male 18-29
    1930 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 2:47 pm
    Goddamnit, there wasn`t a punchline. :(
  5. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 2:48 pm
    old jokes never die
  6. Profile photo of collegebound
    collegebound Male 18-29
    3745 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 2:59 pm
    i read the title as "Red Skeleton"

    you took my smile away :|
  7. Profile photo of wwOOOOp
    wwOOOOp Female 13-17
    58 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 3:05 pm
    Sooo... this was just some patriotic/antireligious vocabulary session? cool..
  8. Profile photo of Cartunze
    Cartunze Male 60-69
    841 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 3:21 pm
    Yeah, there was quite a religious push back then. In `54 they added "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance and in `56 they made "In God We Trust" the national motto and made it mandatory for all US currency. It is kind of hard to get back to the original separation of church and state after that.
  9. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 3:50 pm
    4:20
  10. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    815 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:05 pm
    Um, notice he said "48 states". This is from 50 years ago, not 40. I do love this country, fat folk n` all.. so, let the flame wars begin!
  11. Profile photo of SmagBoy1
    SmagBoy1 Male 40-49
    4432 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:06 pm
    Nope, Red, I don`t think it`d be a pity at all. I think that our nation is one, and it`s indivisible, and needs no God to make it that way. Our forefathers specifically kept that reference out of all early documents dealing with the union, and they did it for a reason. The real shame is how quickly we`ve forgotten why. :-(
  12. Profile photo of mvangild
    mvangild Male 30-39
    527 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:17 pm
    I never really saw a problem with the words "under God" until later in life when I didn`t have to recite the pledge anymore.

    Besides, this was rather "meh". I saw Skelton, and I was expecting something funny.
  13. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7426 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:19 pm
    thubanstar, no, he said when he was a kid there were 48 states. then he said at the end that we no had 2 new ones and two new words to pledge. that makes 50 at the time this was filmed.
  14. Profile photo of inversegrav
    inversegrav Male 30-39
    770 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:26 pm
    it was supposed to be freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion
  15. Profile photo of swaffire
    swaffire Male 18-29
    67 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:39 pm
    may the red skelton live on
  16. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    @inversegrav

    This line is the OPENING of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

    Any line involving God implies the establishment of a specific religious belief. Why isn`t it "one nation, under the many gods" ?

    I don`t even like the "In God We Trust" on the money. Why can`t it be "In Zeus We Trust?"


    The point is, that the government should stay out of ANY business having to do with god, gods, prayer, and all that crap. Religion is fine, in your own privacy. But when the government starts getting involved in any way, shape, or form, that`s when it becomes a problem.
  17. Profile photo of panth753
    panth753 Female 18-29
    9186 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    I haven`t heard the pledge since middle school...
  18. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 4:59 pm
    @SmagBoy1

    I`m pretty sure what he was implying was that the words "under God" should not have been in the Pledge, so that people wouldn`t claim that it was a prayer and have it removed from schools.

    Apparently, after what his principle told him, he was quite proud or something of the fact that we used to recite the Pledge in class, and didn`t want that removed.

    His fear was that, with the addition of the words "under God," someone would find it to be a prayer and have the whole Pledge removed from schools, which would be a pity (to him, at least. I never took much out of it myself, honestly. Then again, I`m severely apathetic and am not the type to be proud of a place just because I was born there, so I guess that`s the difference).
  19. Profile photo of ChiefRocka
    ChiefRocka Male 18-29
    65 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 5:01 pm
    Yawn.....
  20. Profile photo of Scott_2150
    Scott_2150 Male 18-29
    801 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 5:32 pm
    Yup, still bored. =|
  21. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:01 pm
    Altaru: The Supreme Court decided that "under God" in the pledge of allegiance and "In God We Trust" on our money is constitutional.

    So whether you like it or not, They are staying.
    The 1st amendment protects freedom OF religion, Not freedom FROM religion. Also, You can`t possibly expect the government to protect everyone from getting offended, At one thing or another, It`s an impossible task.

    No one is forcing you to pray, Believe in God, Or even say those words in the pledge. So please, Let`s get over it and move on.
  22. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:11 pm
    Altaru: Also, Red said, "Wouldn`t it be a pity that someone said that was a prayer". That word `Pity` indicates what he truly means, That it would be a pity if some atheist would try and remove those words (As has been tried several times) using the very 1st amendment that we hold so dear.

    Thankfully, They remain steadfast.
  23. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:29 pm
    The 1st amendment protects freedom OF religion, Not freedom FROM religion.
    When the government is getting involved, in does and should do both.

    The Supreme Court decided that "under God" in the pledge of allegiance and "In God We Trust" on our money is constitutional.
    When. State the court cases. The one that I can think of off the top of my head was dismissed for some bullsh*t reason, not making the case about whether the words were or were not constitutional.

    I find it funny how people who want to "return this country to it`s founding principles" and sh*t like that can so easily overlook those very same principles if they don`t agree with them...
  24. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:35 pm
    Also, regarding your second post, how easy it is for you to hear only what you WANT to hear. He said "Wouldn`t it be a pity IF..." just to start.

    And considering that the whole thing was about how the Pledge was amazing as it was, I get the feeling his opinion was more along the lines of "those two words could screw up something so great. We don`t need them."

    Oh, and uh, while you`re at it...

    Go ahead and read that quote from the First Amendment I put on here. Read it VERY carefully.

    As far as I`m concerned, Congress (or any other section of government) endorsed notions regarding the respecting of a single, mono-theistic "God" (or any other concept of god/gods) is violating that. And that`s EXACTLY what they did when they added those words to the Pledge, and that phrase to our money.

    Once again, we love our Constitution... Unless we don`t agree with it.
  25. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:47 pm
    Another point:

    Having ANYTHING to do with "God" in the Pledge completely undermines the "United" and "Indivisible" parts of it, since the whole idea of "God" is such a dividing concept by nature, and always has been.

    I wouldn`t mind the Pledge, had it remained as it was in Red Skeleton`s days.

    Since the government had to go and screw it all up by VIOLATING THE FIRST AMENDMENT, right there is a start of the reason why I hate this country.

    Bunch`a hypocrites. We love our Constitution, and the principles the country was founded upon... Until we disagree with them, at which point they go out the window...
  26. Profile photo of Dragonlord
    Dragonlord Male 18-29
    734 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:51 pm
    I work at a school, and the kids all recite it in the dull monotone. It`s mindless repetition. It`s something I`d expect to see in a North Korean classroom, not here.
  27. Profile photo of wellsy57
    wellsy57 Male 50-59
    229 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:54 pm
    I like cookies and cream ice cream. Oh, and the mention of God in the Pledge doesn`t refer to just one God. Smagboy1 said it best. Our forefathers didn`t include it for a reason. And that was so we wouldn`t have to argue all the time on IAB. Shoutout to Thomas Jefferson!
  28. Profile photo of wellsy57
    wellsy57 Male 50-59
    229 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:54 pm
    Is shoutout supposed to be two words?
  29. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    Is shoutout supposed to be two words?
    I do believe (and the Google Chrome spell-check agrees with me) that it`s supposed to be one word, my friend.
  30. Profile photo of username3415
    username3415 Male 18-29
    362 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 7:13 pm
    Yes. There is a lot of potential for happiness in this world. It is going to take selfless loving open-mindedness. Love everyone, for everything is one.
  31. Profile photo of Oster
    Oster Male 40-49
    104 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 7:40 pm
    Shoe on the other foot, here: If children were to be asked to recite the pledge in public schools, but the pledge said, "One nation, there are no gods...," I think you get a pretty good idea of why "under God" is a problem.

    Not only was the phrase "under God" added in 1954 to make a statement against irreligious Communism during the Cold War, it promotes monotheism over polytheism, atheistic religions (e.g. Buddhism), spritual beliefs which do not recognize a personified deity (e.g. deism, Wicca, some agnosticis, et al), and non-religious atheism.

    "God" with a capital "g", as it appears in the Pledge of Allegiance, is a pronoun for "THE god." And "I" is the student. And about 180 days of every school year they are being asked by a public servant to personally pledge alliance with "God."

    This is not the same as not having mention of a god in the pledge, it is more like asking child
  32. Profile photo of D3rAnG3d
    D3rAnG3d Male 18-29
    1598 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 7:41 pm
    Religious haters be hatin...
  33. Profile photo of mrpuddle
    mrpuddle Male 18-29
    385 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 7:44 pm
    YAY mine got in!
  34. Profile photo of MrsPoods
    MrsPoods Female 18-29
    547 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 8:10 pm
    Boring
  35. Profile photo of pmarren
    pmarren Male 40-49
    4575 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 8:14 pm
    Bravo.
  36. Profile photo of mystery08
    mystery08 Male 18-29
    160 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 8:22 pm
    he is still talking?
  37. Profile photo of sandtalker
    sandtalker Male 30-39
    49 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 9:18 pm
    Wow! the church of no god is out in force! Hey, if it bothers you that much, don`t pledge to a nation "under god". And hey, if someone doesn`t want to pledge to a nation "under god" why is that important. It really makes absolutely NO difference either way, since nobody seems to believe in ANY of the words in the pledge...
  38. Profile photo of DixxyRarr
    DixxyRarr Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 9:28 pm
    I want to hug that man. That was sweet.
  39. Profile photo of Cartunze
    Cartunze Male 60-69
    841 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 10:16 pm
    I liked Red Skelton. He used to do skits with many different characters. My favorite was `Freddy the Freeloader`. Our family watched him every week and I probably saw this episode when it originally aired. Red was a religious man and ended each show with the words "God Bless". When he was talking about the inclusion of the words "under God" in the Pledge, he was happy that they were added. His little statement about someone might call that a prayer and try to have the words removed were just a dig on the separation activists of the time.
    For those of you who are fine with that and the "In God We Trust" thing and think atheists are just haters, how would you feel if is said "Praise be to Allah" or "Allah Akbar" on the money
  40. Profile photo of smithno13
    smithno13 Male 18-29
    252 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 10:21 pm
    Oster, as the pledge goes -
    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    By reciting it, you are pledging alliegance to the flag and the country, which, as stated, stand under god.
    No pledge of allegiance to god in there at all.
  41. Profile photo of jets4life
    jets4life Male 30-39
    39 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 10:23 pm
    Cartunze, I think you nailed it. All to often, Atheists are labeled as angry and cynical, but I think Christians would be perceived as angry and cynical too if "Praise Allah" were to be added to something in the public domain.
  42. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 10:36 pm
    Altaru: Your wrong about Red meant, Red Skelton was a religious man and ended all his shows with the saying "God Bless". Do some research before you stick your foot in your mouth again.
  43. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 10:39 pm
    Cartunze: What do you think it says in arabic on the Saudi flag ?
  44. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 10:42 pm
    For Altaru: Source for "under God" decision.
  45. Profile photo of Wildcats2008
    Wildcats2008 Male 18-29
    237 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 10:59 pm
    Smagboy1: Nope, Red, I don`t think it`d be a pity at all. I think that our nation is one, and it`s indivisible, and needs no God to make it that way. Our forefathers specifically kept that reference out of all early documents dealing with the union, and they did it for a reason. The real shame is how quickly we`ve forgotten why.

    Opening lines to Declaration of Independence:
    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature`s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    (cont.)
  46. Profile photo of Wildcats2008
    Wildcats2008 Male 18-29
    237 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 11:05 pm
    The line that everyone quotes: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable rights, among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    Closing line of the Declaration of Independence:
    "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

    So you`re little argument that the founding fathers wanted NO religion is wrong.

    I believe that the First Amendment was created to ensure that the STATE wouldn`t establish a religion (a la Church of England). Just like the freedom of the press was made to keep government out of the press (look how well that happened), it was made to keep government out of religion, not religion out of government.

    BTW, the doctrine of separation of church and state is never mentioned in the constituti
  47. Profile photo of handys003
    handys003 Male 50-59
    2402 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 11:15 pm
    Yeah since he mentions the 48 states at a time when it was a pledge for white race only. Hmm.. the right of power to live ones life without threats, fear, or retaliation. Yeah it was just swell to be yellow or black back then. Such concept is so delusional. How naive of the real meaning of the concept.
  48. Profile photo of mrpuddle
    mrpuddle Male 18-29
    385 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 11:34 pm
    I do hope that people realize that atheism complains more about being "force fed" religion but forces there opinions more than most religious people I know. They fight more and do hours of research so the instant they can shove that magazine article or forum post in your face they do. If you don`t feel the same way fine...but STOP FORCING YOUR ATHEIST RELIGION ON ME! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
  49. Profile photo of Shadowkin
    Shadowkin Male 40-49
    188 posts
    September 23, 2010 at 11:49 pm
    As an atheist I do not nor do my friends force anything down anyones throat. Its the nervous one that do.. you know the ones that aren`t sure ;)

    Seriously I have never been offended by religious references on money, in pledges or public speaking. I am enraged when tax money is spent debating it in courts.. don`t care GFY if you do. The next step is remvoing all real/pseudo religous holiday references and that bites too. Real athiests just believe in no higher power in the creation dept., and like to debate it from time to time. The rest of the fluff you see is mental people that would be a pain in the ass whether they were agnostic, catholic, jewish or god forbid in PETA.

  50. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 12:05 am
    Smagboy1: The main reason why the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, And the Bill of Rights are worded the way they are is because the King (or Queen) of England is the Head of the Church as well.

    Our forefathers argued against the power of the king in both the economy and the pulpit at the same time. They recognized that people came to the colonies to flee the religious persecution of the church of England against other protestant denominations. The didn`t want the government to establish any particular denomination over another. They wanted all denominations to be on equal ground, Concerning the government, Not abolished altogether. That is way congress, To this day, Opens it`s sessions with a prayer from a rotating group of theologians.
  51. Profile photo of bankvole
    bankvole Male 30-39
    959 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 12:46 am
    If you substituted the words `under God` with `so the giant astral pixie can continue to protect us from the boogie man` you`d see how ridiculous an addition it really is.
  52. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 1:01 am
    Hey, look, anyone who knows me on this site, knows I`m always sticking up for religion, and they know it`s religion in general, not just my own.

    However: "Under God" was added to keep out the commies, and falsely tarring atheists with the communist brush. It was inserted to be a divider amongst your people, and to exclude atheists from being American.

    The ORIGINAL pledge without "under God" was written by Francis Bellamy who was both a Minister, and a socialist, which should tell you a hell of a lot about socialists, religion, and the original pledge right there.

    I don`t agree with separation of Church and state exactly, but this, is specifically there to exclude one religious grouping (Atheism), from the others.

    Bad.
  53. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 1:05 am
    Bankvole:
    It`s easy to make things sound silly.
    It`s easier to take the layman terms and make them sound silly.

    Here`s the big bang according to the layman: "First there was nothing, and then nothing exploded, making planests and stars and cars and pizza".

    Now the reality is better, but still twistable. Basically, stoppit with the "self evident truths" that are only self evident if you reword it in a way that doesn`t match the evidence.
  54. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 1:27 am
    Baal: As I`ve read it, The idea for adding `under God` came from Lincoln Gettysburg address quote, "that the nation shall, under God, have a new birth of freedom."

    I have not read anywhere, That it was added as a anti-atheist or anti-communist sentiment at the time it was changed. There might have been accusations made after wards, But that does not prove intent.
  55. Profile photo of Intaresting
    Intaresting Male 18-29
    812 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 2:04 am
    I feel sorry for the guy now. The United States of America doesn`t stand for any of those things these days.
  56. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    815 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 3:58 am
    Intaresting, it`s gotten even MORE true to the pledge in many ways since 50 years ago.

    Look who the president is. He would not of been allowed in a lot of places that hastily open doors for him now -back in the day. Look at our debates! Gays in the military would of been absolutely unthinkable at the time Red did this.

    If anything, I think that pledge sunk in and stuck to a lot of school kids brains and made this a better, more free country. So the economy is bad? At least our open-mindedness and caring about our fellow American`s rights and freedoms has improved tremendously.
  57. Profile photo of 8BitHero
    8BitHero Male 18-29
    5414 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 4:23 am
    Pfft, Why would you wanna pledge yourself to such a crap nation. Back, then I would`ve had respect for America. But now... pfft
    No other country does it.
  58. Profile photo of PierreJeanFR
    PierreJeanFR Male 40-49
    1360 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 4:53 am
    I wish it was the case but this flag has been stained beyond recognition and it`s sad.
  59. Profile photo of eskimo9
    eskimo9 Male 18-29
    703 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 4:55 am
    I kept waiting for the punchline. (How was I to know he wasn`t joking?)

    On a serious note though, I agree with Intaresting, from the other side of the world, it is impossible to see many US Americans who can honestly agree with that pledge, under god or not.
  60. Profile photo of Jayno
    Jayno Male 18-29
    176 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 5:05 am
    @ShadowKin
    I can handle agnostics, catholics, jewish or most other religions, but PETA are just f`ing CRAZY folk
  61. Profile photo of tommy2X4
    tommy2X4 Male 50-59
    3441 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 5:05 am
    I`m so old, I remember this on T.V. when it first aired. I served my country but the Pledge of Allegiance wasn`t the reason I signed up for the Navy, it was Popeye the Sailor Man! But I align with Jefferson and can do without the mention of God.
  62. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    815 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 5:10 am
    Ho kay, for all you who agree with Intaresting. The pledge is not talking about foreign relations, it`s talking about how Americans feel about their own country.

    We do all pledge allegence to the flag. I don`t notice a mass exodus of my people to any other country, do you?

    Of the United States of America. I have not noticed any civil wars in my country, have you?

    And to the Republic for which it stands... again, there`s more unity here and more amiable discord that in most countries.

    One nation, under God.. have to disagree with that, but hey, I CAN disagree...

    Indivisible. So, again, no civil wars.

    With liberty and justice for all. Nope, not perfect, but again, the guy in the White House is black. Think about it. The rest of the stuff that goes on these days is proof of free speach... so...

    How is it wrong? Tell me, point by point and we`ll see if I change my mind.
  63. Profile photo of GuardinGnome
    GuardinGnome Male 18-29
    2893 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 5:23 am
    I just jizzed red white and blue.
    I think I should go to the doctor........
  64. Profile photo of Flashpacker
    Flashpacker Male 18-29
    672 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 6:12 am
    @GuardinGnome
    you jizzed the colors of the norwegian flag?
    good for you =)
  65. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 6:54 am
    Oorah Red
  66. Profile photo of GhettoNinja
    GhettoNinja Male 30-39
    886 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 6:57 am
    lolTommy2X4:)

    I can`t say much on this, Red summed it up extremely well. I think his interpretation will be timeless.

    And I agree, wouldn`t it be a shame?
  67. Profile photo of meepmaker
    meepmaker Male 30-39
    6694 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 7:44 am
    This is very old.
  68. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 7:54 am
    ".... it`s as much your country as it is mine." United we hope for freedom for all the peoples of the world. Whether here in the USA or your home country or country of choice.

    Whether you believe in God or not. Don`t all us people of the world have the right and deserve to be FREE?

  69. Profile photo of edana42
    edana42 Female 50-59
    2509 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 8:15 am
    "This is very old. "

    but still very applicable
  70. Profile photo of Intaresting
    Intaresting Male 18-29
    812 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 9:21 am
    thubanstar: I suppose you`re right. Everyone in America have the right to be free IF they`re:

    1) Christian (or jewish)

    2) White (doesn`t apply to politicians, I guess?)

    3) Heterosexual

    So yeah. The United States of America. What a wonderful country.
  71. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 9:55 am
    Wow intaresting,

    Some of us would get banned for that type of bigotry.
  72. Profile photo of taylor_stone
    taylor_stone Male 30-39
    2688 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 9:56 am
    "As an atheist I do not nor do my friends force anything down anyones throat. Its the nervous one that do.. you know the ones that aren`t sure ;) "

    I`m Pagan and I, as well as all the others in my circle, take the same approach. We believe what we believe and we don`t force our ways on anyone. If I remember correctly from my studies, various religious texts state NOT to do so. I have Christian friends who claim Atheists and the like try to force their ways on people when from MY experience, its the Christians who are the biggest instigators.

    Live and let live. Believe and let believe(or NOT believe as it were). Love and let love. These are my personal credos. Acceptance and respect for all living things, no matter their color, religion, or ideals.

    Why is it so difficult for some people to do the same?
  73. Profile photo of lemmingboy15
    lemmingboy15 Male 18-29
    635 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 10:08 am
    wow Intaresting, you must not pay attention to current affairs in America very much.
    White heterosexual Christian males get attacked the most out of any group.
  74. Profile photo of taylor_stone
    taylor_stone Male 30-39
    2688 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 10:10 am
    @Intaresting

    Considering you obviously have NO inner eye to our country and our ways, your opinions mean absolute jack squat.

    Freedom in this country is not dependent upon your race, religion, or sexual orientation. Each American is guaranteed the same rights. Its how these individuals UTILIZE these rights that can cause turmoil, depending on who might have some kind of issue with them. Racism isn`t just a product of the US, nor is discrimination of gays, or hatred of the atheist/agnostic by the predominant religious group. So NO country is perfect. But the US is united in its belief that our freedoms as a NATION come before our freedoms as an individual. On September 11th, 2001 there was NO racism against gays, blacks, hispanics, or atheism. (The racism was shifted to Muslims.) We were a united brotherhood that day because our individual issues were overshadowed by an attack against us as a nation. THAT is what the Pledge of Allegiance is all about.
  75. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 10:47 am
    taylor stone

    "Freedom in this country is not dependent upon your race, religion, or sexual orientation. Each American is guaranteed the same rights. "

    That is the ideal, but it is not the reality.

    Intaresting is articulating how the ideal is betrayed - full civil equality is still denied to people based on their sexual orientation, their race, their religion, and their gender.

    Until reality fully lives up to the ideal, then, white male heterosexual Christians continue to have more real freedom in the U.S., than anyone else.

    "On September 11th, 2001 there was NO racism against gays, blacks, hispanics, or atheism. . . . We were a united brotherhood that day"

    Actually there was. The press refused at first to acknowledge that one of the heroes of flight 93 was gay. The press was very selective in its portrayal of the victims of the attacks.

    At your obvious youth, you really do not understand what you are p
  76. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 10:52 am
    lemmingboy: "White heterosexual Christian males get attacked the most out of any group."

    No. They get criticized for persecuting other people. Other groups - people of color and gay and lesbians, endure a much higher proportional rate of physical violence, verbal violence, and political/social violence.

    You and your peers are not being attacked when you are restrained from beating and killing gays and lesbians, people of color, women, religious minorities.

  77. Profile photo of Shadowkin
    Shadowkin Male 40-49
    188 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 10:56 am
    thubanstar: I suppose you`re right. Everyone in America have the right to be free IF they`re:
    1) Christian (or jewish)
    2) White (doesn`t apply to politicians, I guess?)
    3) Heterosexual
    So yeah. The United States of America. What a wonderful country.

    you are silly! Come live in LA for 4 months and say that is the sentiment here. Oh wait you can`t because you live in Europe. >>snicker<<
  78. Profile photo of Baalthazaq
    Baalthazaq Male 18-29
    4548 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 10:58 am
    Crakr:

    In 1953, the Roman Catholic men`s group, the Knights of Columbus mounted a campaign to add the words "under God" to the Pledge. The nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, a reported 15 resolutions were initiated in Congress to change the pledge. They got nowhere until Rev. George Docherty (1911 - 2008) preached a sermon that was attended by President Eisenhower and the national press corps on 1954-FEB-7. His sermon said in part:

    Apart from the mention of the phrase `the United States of America,` it could be the pledge of any republic. In fact, I could hear little Muscovites repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag in Moscow.
  79. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:00 am
    Cartunze: What do you think it says in arabic on the Saudi flag ?
    Are you retarded? Don`t answer that, I already know.

    The official religion of Saudi Arabia is Islam.

    In other words, it doesn`t CLAIM to be a secular government and country.

    For Altaru: Source for "under God" decision.
    Read your own link, dumbass.

    It states that the Supreme Court made NO decision whatsoever on the issue, but instead, LIKE I SAID, turned it away for a bullsh*t reason. Namely, that the man who was making the case was not the legal guardian of the child he was representing or some stupid sh*t like that, so had no legal right to be representing the child.

    If you don`t feel the same way fine...but STOP FORCING YOUR ATHEIST RELIGION ON ME! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
    I C WAT U DID THAR! HAR HAR!

    But seriously, get your god out of our shared government. Get the government away from gods period. That`s
  80. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:04 am
    thubanstar

    "Of the United States of America. I have not noticed any civil wars in my country, have you? "

    We had one already, though it did occur before you were born, 1861–1865. We have a cultural civil war underway, launched by the religious right in a declaration of war. The Republican party has been waging war against women, unions, the middle class, gays and lesbians, people of color, etc, for decades.

    "Look who the president is. . . . Gays in the military would of been absolutely unthinkable at the time Red did this. "

    No, it was actually a bit better for GLBTQ people in the military 40 years ago. DADT has been a nightmare, and the last president, and our current one, are defending it.

    "Indivisible. So, again, no civil wars. "
    Your test for lack of division - civil war - it too limited. We are a country that is deeply divided and incredibly polarized. We cannot even agree long enough to make s
  81. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:07 am
    Altaru:

    We came here for freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion.

    Also, the goal was to keep the state out of the church, not the church out of the state.
  82. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:10 am
    @hereux:

    Gays kept there mouths shut long before DADT.

    They knew, and accepted, that they would be overly hazed, and probably shot if given the opportunity. DADT was created to PROTECT homosexuals.

    Oh, and Clinton was responsible for DADT. He`s the liberal`s boy isn`t he? Why aren`t they mentioning him in all this?
  83. Profile photo of taylor_stone
    taylor_stone Male 30-39
    2688 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:14 am
    "At your obvious youth"

    I`m damn near 30, been all around this country multiple times, have served in the US military, and have seen far more than you could imagine in my years. If I feel the need to comment, then I most likely am speaking from experience.

    The refusal to admit that one of the heroes as gay was the act of the media. The media is not comparable to the mindset of the people. The US of its own accord does NOT deny any citizen their rights... INDIVIDUALS do. Those people who complain about being denied freedom are usually the people who are trying to ABUSE said freedom.

    Go read the Bill of Rights... You tell me how many of those freedoms that YOU have been denied... I`ll answer for you. NONE. And if it seems like you MAY have, then you missed an article or two somewhere. Those rights are guaranteed to all US citizens under the pretext that they are utilized properly.
  84. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:20 am
    Altaru:

    We came here for freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion.

    Also, the goal was to keep the state out of the church, not the church out of the state.
    Obviously you have no idea what the first step of stuff like that is.

    People complain that the first step to a surveillance society is cameras on street corners taking pictures of speeders and red-light runners, and the first step to socialism is trying to protect the people when it comes to healthcare...

    On top of that, as has been mentioned (once by me, and a few other times in this thread), the addition of "Under God" and all that completely undermines the concept of "United" and "Indivisible." You can`t have a "United" and "Indivisible" nation, when the government of said nation endorses beliefs that not all it`s people hold.

    I`m sure you endorsed the 10 Commandments on the lawn of that government building, r
  85. Profile photo of BrimstoneOne
    BrimstoneOne Male 30-39
    2229 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:24 am
    How can a country that prides its self for freedom and democracy, also condone torture, terrorism, corruption? Of it actively seeks out those how ask for fairness and justice for those that have none, and denies them of any recourse.

    How can a country who prides its self on it wealth and prosperity, and yet with well over 3/4 of that country`s people languish in grinding poverty that is worst than any life sentence for a crime, any crime?

    How can a country claim to be democratic when those who are "elected" are "sold" to the highest bidder?

    Pride, Hubris and Greed, three of the seven deadlies.
  86. Profile photo of Shadowkin
    Shadowkin Male 40-49
    188 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:27 am
    These modern arguments confuse. Do the gays belong in the kitchen or church? And what about the women, I mean when I was in the military we wanted a nice meat-shield in front of us. Women do not have the surface area of most men.. well except the dikey Rosie look a likes.

    Let me rephrase, if a gay, liberal catholic prays alone in the kitchen of a military church will will a global warming wacko get his(or her) carbon credit?
  87. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 11:30 am
    @altaru:

    It wasn`t the lawn, it was the rotunda of the state supreme court. It was in Alabama, where I live.

    I didn`t support it, because it was a stunt by a religious zealot who was trying to curry favor with the christian conservative voters in my state. It didn`t work.
  88. Profile photo of Aseliel
    Aseliel Male 30-39
    37 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 1:37 pm
    All I can say is this... I`m proud and honored to have recited such a beautiful pledge to our great country. You should to DIRTBAGS!
  89. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 1:56 pm
    Baal: That sermon is still not proof of anti-atheism, and barely supports the claim of anti-communism.

    Your basing your entire argument on one sermon, And as you`ve noted to me before on other subjects, One source is not enough to prove anything.
  90. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 2:03 pm
    Altaru: The Supreme Court let the lower court decision stand, Therefore it has upheld the decision that it`s constitutional.

    The Supreme Court does that quite frequently, They have limited time each year to allow arguments and only do so for a few cases. They decided that case simply wasn`t worth their time, Because they felt lower court made the right decision.
  91. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 2:16 pm
    Altaru: You`re stirring division yourself. As I said before it`s not possible to satisfy everyone in any sort of pledge.

    Hell there are people that certainly disagree with the "..to the republic for which it stands" part. There is no way the pledge could ever be all things to all people.
  92. Profile photo of elkingo
    elkingo Male 30-39
    5387 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 3:26 pm
    Yeah, I pretty much stay out of arguments like this any more, because it boils down to people insulting faith (more specifically Christian faith). I simply have better things to do with my time.
  93. Profile photo of thubanstar
    thubanstar Female 50-59
    815 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 4:02 pm
    Heureux, seems like you`re my age, right??? Ok, first off, yep. One civil war 150 years ago. That`s ONE. Lots of countries have war... after war... after war...Not us. We had one, then became united again.

    I WAS talking about when the pledge was written and AFTER there have been no civil wars.

    As for wringing your hands about division in this country... Puh-lease! That`s called HEALTHY DEBATE! Just because everyone does not agree 100% does not make it oppressive or "divided"

    Go suck on your usual lemon, you pessamistic sourpuss.
  94. Profile photo of Altaru
    Altaru Male 18-29
    3483 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 4:03 pm
    Pride, Hubris and Greed, three of the seven deadlies.
    Pride and Hubris are the same thing...

    Maybe you`re thinking Wrath, you know, concerning the whole torture thing?
  95. Profile photo of TypicalJerk
    TypicalJerk Male 18-29
    533 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 4:20 pm
    so?
  96. Profile photo of digbychicken
    digbychicken Male 18-29
    235 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 5:04 pm
    yay britain!!!
  97. Profile photo of eskimo9
    eskimo9 Male 18-29
    703 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 7:23 pm
    "that`s HEALTHY DEBATE"

    Hm, so KKK (diminished, yes, but still present), Black Panthers (similar), Qu`ran burnings (threatened, though not carried out), the increasing disparity between the economic classes, left-wing / right-wing protests and demonstrations, none of these things speak division to you? USA is not alone, I would suggest (allowing that I am young, and really have only second-hand info to go on) that Australians are far less patriotic now than 50 years ago. Sure we have armed forces and patriots, but not the percentage population we sent to the WWs, and for King and Country means little now.
  98. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 8:53 pm
    Sad to read this string. With what I read and the attitudes displayed, we as people haven`t learned from our pasts or forefathers.

    The anger and division displayed between some from other countries to each other only creates more division and hatred. We will all be at war again some day. Because the extremes always think their way is the right way. Canada, Europe hates and insults the US and the US insults and hates back.

    Sad...
  99. Profile photo of kittilia
    kittilia Female 18-29
    500 posts
    September 24, 2010 at 10:21 pm
    .... Why did we add "under god" to the pledge, again? I think it goes against the purpose of founding this country, and your fore-fathers, too...
  100. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    September 25, 2010 at 9:21 am
    I think the founders wanted "Freedom of Religion", not "Freedom from Religion" and to not have one religion sanctioned by the state.

    So, all religions can worship their chosen God, and all the rest can believe in humans, or money, or power, or the Beatles or who or whatever works for them.
  101. Profile photo of TheGrag
    TheGrag Male 13-17
    1497 posts
    September 25, 2010 at 5:36 pm
    ".... Why did we add "under god" to the pledge, again? I think it goes against the purpose of founding this country, and your fore-fathers, too...
    "
    Because of those godless communists, we had to make ourselves as different as we could. Yep, the USA failed itself and still does
  102. Profile photo of chrischevko
    chrischevko Male 18-29
    8 posts
    September 26, 2010 at 2:17 am
    @TheGrag ... Well maybe you should leave and go to somalia or El Salvador or Haiti etc. because i`m sure they`re a lot better right now...
  103. Profile photo of D3rAnG3d
    D3rAnG3d Male 18-29
    1598 posts
    September 26, 2010 at 5:32 pm
    Religious haters be hatin...
  104. Profile photo of Naltoc
    Naltoc Male 18-29
    48 posts
    September 27, 2010 at 2:06 am
    Not so much hating as being annoyed at the change from something that glorified the very pillars the country was founded upon, and changed it into something that, as the man very rightly says, could be perceived as a prayer. I know, that when I recite the Pledge, I simply stay mute for those words, leaving my pledge to the original subject, rather than a God in whom I do not believe.

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