Female Mice Can Be Go Lesbian By Deleting Gene

Submitted by: Matwix_2004 7 years ago in Science
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7877774/Female-mice-can-be-turned-lesbian-by-deleting-gene.html

Your move, anti-gay protesters
There are 95 comments:
Male 2,551
Maps - Yes, you are right, I was being a little flippant with the word proves, but genetically we are fairly close to mice, which is why they are often tested on before whatever it is is released to the public. But I meant that if there is a gene in mice that makes them straight or gay, then there is a good chance there is one in humans, and all animals. Just because I didn`t explicitly state it doesn`t mean it wasn`t intended in the argument I was making.
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Male 51
It doesn`t "prove" anything, Matwix. Only someone completely unfamiliar with genetics, psychology, and neuroscience would take a five paragraph long article obviously written for an audience of laymen, and with the disclaimer "While oestrogen masculinises the brain in mice, it does not have the same effect on humans", and have the arrogance to use the word "proves" so flippantly. In all likelihood homosexuality is influenced by both genetics and environment.
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Male 2,551
mischeif954 - they say that being gay is a choice. This proves that it`s genetic.
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Male 771
Whats the link between this and anti-gay protesters?
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Female 2,026
`it may be "very difficult" to find willing volunteers for humans` no poo.
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Male 230
SuperSmash
You obviously do not under stand how science works. First a scientist creates a hypothesis, and then sets up experiments to see if that hypothesis is correct. If sciencetist did not do this all they would be doing is randomly messing with stuff to see what the result would be, and that would not get us very far. This is how every experiment is played out, and just because a scientist goes into an experiment with an educated guess as to the out come does not corrupt the data or out come unless its some crooked unknown scientist doing it. In every other case every thing is peer reviewed and checked again and again by many others.
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Female 1,963
Very interesting. Obviously not directly applicable to humans, but quite suggestive.

And no, supersmash. As a few others have said, you always start out an experiment by formulating a hypothesis. You don`t just start randomly trying things to see if anything comes out of it.
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Female 728
SuperSmash: The results of any trial of this sort should be questioned until they are tested and retested extensively. Unfortunately, it is difficult to find grant money to redo an experiment as extra support for it, so it is uncommon for it to happen.

However, pursuing a hypothesis does not automatically make the results biased. If you ever did a science fair project in grade school, you probably remember stating a hypothesis and then seeing whether or not it was supported. While some people may fudge their data for some petty reason, good scientists don`t and can`t because they are peer reviewed.
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Male 2,551
SuperSmash - if they`re activly seeking a result, it doesn`t mean that they are activly seeking for a sepcific result, which would bring the results into question. They were activly looking for a link between genes, and sexuality, therefore, they were activly looking for a result in the tests they were doing.
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Male 3,755
I was wondering why scientists have been actively seeking a genetic link to homosexuality, as the article states. If a scientist is actively seeking any result, then the results must be brought into question.
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Female 1,593
FucM gene? Is this an Onion article? )-|
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Male 190
FucM gene? Next, theyll discover that disabling the FucMe gene in males causes them to be gay!

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Female 412
> So, can I delete my wifes gene, so I can finally convince her to visit taco town?

I don`t know if she is still sleeping with you now (you seem rather crude) but keep in mind if you do that, she will never sleep with you again.
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Male 2,424
So, can I delete my wifes gene, so I can finally convince her to visit taco town?
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Male 6,693
I guess the pet store will sell gay mice now.
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Male 782
@FLCL_Reaper
Every species that doesn`t asexually reproduce.
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Male 39,880
"disabling the FucM gene" ? ? ?

this has to be a joke...right? the FucM [pronounced "FCuk-em" ] gene?

LOL good one.
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Male 3,014
"FucM Gene matches this a little too well. o_o"

Yeah, I`m seeing reason to doubt the validity of this story.
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Female 397
replace w/ fudgeM-All gene for bisexual mice.
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Male 68
i sharted
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Female 92
YEAH, WHO NEEDS MEN!!!
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Female 99
I went looking for the fake news header when I saw the FucM gene
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Male 78
Its the Telegraph. So no, its not a joke. Its as real as homosexuality is a sin*

*sarcasm
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Female 1,199
FucM Gene matches this a little too well. o_o
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Male 1,231
FucM gene? Lol at that, but seriously, this is impressive research.
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Male 4,793
I want a lesbouse. Actually, I want two of them.
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Male 56
I love this link just because of the caption ^^
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Male 188
not exactly good news for gays. Now instead of claiming that being gay is a choice, people will be trying to "treat" or "cure" them. That prospect should go over swimmingly.
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Male 1,164
In other news, scientists have discovered that by deleting the gene in mice that causes them to be happy, they caused the affected mice to become very sad. No news on whether or not this works on humans.

Back to you, Jim.
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Male 192
i feel better now knowing i am not the only one to notice it is the F**k em gene lol are we sure this is not just a joke???
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Male 2,419
@SuperSmash
then at this point there would be many more gays/lesbians
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Male 314
@SuperSmash
Yeah, and with many other animals, if the population gets to high within the habitat they start killing each other off. Maybe that explains the natural tendency of war?
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Male 1,184
Nido - In humans, yes. These are mice.
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Male 385
No one got it? really? the FucM gene? F.U.C.`EM GENE? Really? Just me? OK.
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Male 2,516
that`s really cool, I`ve always thought there`s a genetic thing behind any preference (including sexual), it`d be nice to find some willing volunteers but I see the continuation of this study a rather difficult one
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Male 9,305
Wait...I`m confused, I thought estrogen was what made women womanlike and it was testosterone that was what made men manlike.
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Male 3,755
It may sound crazy, but maybe homosexuality is a form of population control. There`s a species of some undersea creature (not a tiny one, but like a shrimp or even a fish, I just can`t remember) that can change sex when needed. So, I guess that could mean species think about the well-being of the overall species, not just themselves and relations. Well, actually at some point we are all related. Anyway, what if over time we`ve developed a gene that causes certain members of the species to have no desire to mate, thus reducing, or at least slowing the growth of, the population.

Just a guess.
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Male 2,148
Holy wall-of-text!
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Male 3,755
Population control?
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Male 333
They psychologically turn them into transvestites
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Female 728
peloos12: You are making the naturalistic fallacy. Something being `natural` doesn`t mean it`s `right` or `good`. Just because sexual attraction is a reproductive adaptation, doesn`t mean that there`s anything wrong with it being applied in non-reproductive circumstances. Humans have sex for reasons besides reproduction. There`s nothing inherently wrong with it.

And a difference is, as I mentioned earlier, a variation. If it were a defect, it is very likely that the trait would cease to appear in the population. Homosexuality occurs even in the children of heterosexuals, so it is simply a variation that appears in the population from time to time. And I explained in my previous post that it is good to have some non-reproductive individuals in the community.
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Female 728
goaliejerry: Actually, it is beneficial to have a certain percentage of the population not reproducing, but still adding to society. As we are social animals by nature, this setup is possible, because we all contribute to society in some form or another.

It is possible that homosexuality is caused by complex gene interactions, or by additive genes. In fact, the latter makes quite a lot of sense given that male homosexuals tend to be hypo- or hyper-masculine. Maybe our genes are balanced so that, most of the time, a male child receives a moderate amount of a certain gene, but sometimes receives too little or too much. There is also some evidence that the prenatal environment has an impact on the masculine characteristics of the child, sometimes leading to boys who are more feminized than they might have been genetically.
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Female 803
Actually, FucM is short for fucose mutarotase. The article is less than a page long, you`d know this if you`d read it.

Also @peloos12, I totally agree that there are no positive phrases to use. It`s also so unfortunate that there are such narrow minded, ignorant people in the world on on this forum.
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Male 3,819
"And for the record, I think this would be a terrible thing to find out for gays. It would basically be saying, it`s okay that you`re gay, it`s because you were deformed at birth; That being gay is a defect."

If being gay isn`t an abnormality and it`s not a choice, what is it? The entire point of attraction is to reproduce. You cannot do that with two people of the same sex. Therefore they have a defect. Are they wrong? No. Are they bad people? No. Is it a part of nature and therefore "right" on the large scale? Yes. But it also strays from the blueprint. It sucks that there are only negative terms to describe this, but it is what it is. If a sperm tried to enter another sperm instead of an egg, would you consider that sperm to be defective? Everybody is born with some sort of trait that "strays from the blueprint". Most people also embrace these things while still considering them as such. I don`t know why we can`t do the same with homosexuality.
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Male 215
> hehe. the FucM gene.
> FucM = Fu*k`em, right?

I think it`s short for Fu*k Men. ;-]
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Male 3,819
"It actually turned the female mice into transgendered mice who thought they were males but were trapped in a female body."

That`s pretty black and white. Mice also don`t have the ability to learn otherwise. They run entirely on instinct (they learn some things, of course, but they are obviously incapable of learning the true differences between male and female). If something similar is happening to humans (and it`s becoming clearer and clearer all the time that is the case) then they`re essentially the same thing -- a male who is hardwired to work like a female or vice versa. The difference being they have a brain to understand that it`s not "right".

Your subconscious beats your conscious every time.
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Male 40,728
From the article:
[quote]"The mutant female mouse underwent a slightly altered developmental programme in the brain to resemble the male brain in terms of sexual preference."[/quote]
Soooo
It actually turned the female mice into transgendered mice who thought they were males but were trapped in a female body.

No word on if they got little mousie sex changes...
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Male 707
hehe. the FucM gene.
FucM = Fu*k`em, right?
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Male 7,830
earl grey, there is a gene dubbed the "gay gene" but it has yet to go through thorough testing, nor has it really been found to in anyway affect a persons sexual orientation.
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Male 3,755
ElSombrero, alomst everything about us is on a continuum. No one is truly right-handed or left-handed.
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Male 3,755
So, they are saying homosexuality is genetic? How does that work? Kinda joking, just a funny thought.

With more and more people being unafraid to live a homosexual lifestyle, there will be less chance of the genetic variation that can lead to homosexuality being passed on by a person living a straight lifestyle only because they were afraid to be who they truly are.

I know some "expert" will tell me I`m wrong. My statement is completely unscientific and I made it up.
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Male 716
According to certain studies, no one person is 100% homo or hetero sexual. Just different levels.
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Male 1,184
dramaeco, you just said all humans are defective, because homo sapiens arose from a gene mutation in an ancestor.
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Male 4,807
Here`s an idea, why don`t we go back to the future, say... July 05/10 and see what happens.

Oh yea... that.
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Male 1,184
lawl badname. You fail at psychology.

Diathesis-stress.
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Female 168
Major verb fail here.
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Male 305
And for the record, I think this would be a terrible thing to find out for gays. It would basically be saying, it`s okay that you`re gay, it`s because you were deformed at birth; That being gay is a defect.
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Female 131
"this particular case does not relate to humans because we have yet to find a "gay" gene within ourselves."

I`m pretty sure in Religulous, Bill interviews a guy who said that he discovered the "gay" gene... It was like a very small part that came on after someone else said that there was no gay gene. Can`t remember the guy`s name though...
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Male 305
ah, a1butcher beat me to it.
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Male 305
Alright, I`m not taking sides on this issue, but being as I have NO knowledge of genetics; Does this whole article sound fishy? Is that the actual name of a gene? Does anyone have another source on this?
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Male 4,807
The "fucM gene"

Nobody smells a hoax here except me?

Maybe I`ll just wait this out for a few days when more information comes out to discredit the "fucM gene"

Cause "if you see em" on the net, it must be fact?
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Female 130
"it is just illogical to say that because something is natural it is right. Pedophiles don`t choose to be attracted to children. Again, not comparing at all in any way, just pointing out that b/c something is natural doesn`t automatically make it right. "

It`s illogical to compare being born gay to pedophillia, which has several known causes; none of which you are born with.

Your points are all either weak or invalid.
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Male 1,764
Linky to the paper. I know, "TL,DR" but a least check out the abstract. The reason you don`t find the enzyme or gene all over the web is because it`s relatively new to researchers, hence the gene knockout research.
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Male 232
@cobrakiller, I see. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
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Male 3,755
This story has been around for years.

It`s not a choice to want to have sex with someone of the same gender, but it`s a choice to actually do it.

Not comparing the two, or making a judgement, but it is just illogical to say that because something is natural it is right. Pedophiles don`t choose to be attracted to children. Again, not comparing at all in any way, just pointing out that b/c something is natural doesn`t automatically make it right.

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Male 25,416
riiiggghhhttt! a advance in science maybe?
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Female 136
I have this horrible feeling that if they find something like this in humans that someone is gonna try to come up with a "cure" and they might succeed. It would be like X-Men 3 all over again...bad example sorry...The name of the gene in this is pretty funny though.
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Male 1,184
Rick, the enzyme wouldn`t have a name if researchers didn`t know what it does. The researches that did this study probably named it themselves.
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Male 7,830
TxP, this particular case does not relate to humans because we have yet to find a "gay" gene within ourselves. but, as we further our knowledge of our genome and ways to change it, we get closer to the day when we will try to alter it. thats when it becomes something important to talk about, and there will be a political war over it.

pizzaroll, changing estrogen or testosterone levels can change your sex drive, but it does not however change which gender you try to mate with as this experiment did to these mice.
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Male 3,330
The FucM gene? It`s all over the interent, but only in relation to this research. I wonder if it`s real or not.
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Male 1,184
pizza, it`s not actually groundbreaking research, it`s just that the same type of research is being done at the same time... so by the time it`s published, someone else may have done something similar. Which is the case here.

jim... Telegraph =/= Onion. Telegraph is real news.
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Male 1,596
where can we find these GO-lesbians?!
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Female 1,101
Yeah I question the legitimacy of this article.
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Male 639
OK I stopped reading at `disabled the "FucM" gene` and then realised it was the Telegraph.
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Male 217
if lesbians and gays have missing genes that must mean straight people are superior! loljks
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Male 232
Wait... I don`t see how this is ground breaking research. Cutting the amount of estrogen in any species is going to change the sex drive of the female. Just like cutting a man off from testosterone will do the same thing.
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Male 4,014
"goaliejerry: If it`s genetic, it isn`t a defect, it is a variation."

Thats fair, although in evolutionary terms, homosexuality apparently does nothing except reduce the ability of a species to propagate (they won`t produce offspring), so at the least its a useless variation, and arguably harmful to the survival of the species, unlike, say, eye color (which seems more neutral).

I`ve read arguments on the one hand that if homosexuality is genetic, then we wouldn`t have homosexuals because it would have been bred out of the gene pool - they don`t mate with the opposite sex. Makes sense. But on the other hand, we all know stories of the closeted homosexual who reproduces despite not being attracted to members of the opposite sex.

Cobrakiller - designer babies are the slippery slope, but there is some sort of line - I mean, if we could correct down syndrome in utero, we would. What counts as "bad" genes? Dangerous question, you`re right.
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Female 1,190
though this is exciting news, they said it does not relate back to humans so maybe we shouldnt start a war over this one guys :S
but its really cool that they can do that with the female mice, i think i remember in my sociology class learning about how hormones in males can be altered in a pregnant woman but it had no effect on females so that was kind of a cramp in the genetics argument for lesbians, though i certainly feel its genetic for most (i have seen others just swap teams before lol)
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Male 7,378
It`s a stretch to assume that people would push for homosexuals to be "cured" but if the option were there they could probably change back if the flavor didn`t fit. Can almost envision a future where gay is the new goth and switches could be made by taking a pill. That could make for some interesting weekends.
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Male 7,830
goaliejerry, i believe its wrong in general to alter the genes of an unborn being, except in the case of preventing certain disorders. When it comes down too it, altering genes can come with the result of a choice of hair color, height, eye color, metabolism, body hair, etc. and we should really not be messing with nature.
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Male 1,184
mini, you don`t believe in evolution? Because that`s what you just said.
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Female 728
goaliejerry: If it`s genetic, it isn`t a defect, it is a variation.
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Male 4,014
"the only problem is that anti-gay activists will try to "cure" homosexuals."

You know, despite my full and complete support for gay-rights, if science could tell me my unborn child would definitely be homosexual, and they could definitely do gene-replacement therapy with the result of producing a non-homosexual child,

I
Probably
Would
Do
It.

But damn, all sorts of philosophical problems here. If its gene based, it refutes the Christianist`s contention that homosexuality is a choice (which is necessary to justify their religion-based condemnation of the "choice"), but then if its gene based AND can be "fixed," then homosexuals are somehow "defective" or "abnormal." Hmmmmmmmm.

Minitimm - you have a point - now researchers need to see if there are ever naturally produced mice who lack this gene...
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Male 553
the f*ck men gene? wait what?
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Male 7,830
the only problem is that anti-gay activists will try to "cure" homosexuals.
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Male 82
How is it natural if you remove a gene? What do you say to that?
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Female 1,199
FucM Gene matches this a little too well. o_o
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Male 1,287
goaliejerry beat me to the punch. a winner is u

ahahahahaha FucM
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Male 677
"Female Mice Can Be Go Lesbian By Deleting Gene"

wait, what?
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Male 4,014
"Researchers found that disabling the FucM gene..."

THE f*ck`em GENE????? AWESOME
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Male 4,014
Pssssh, science! What do scientists know??? Stupid LIBERALS
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Male 84
"can be go" LOL
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Female 430
How do you think the mice feel, missing a gene? :s
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Male 2,548
I read about this on Science Daily. Fascinating discovery!
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Male 2,551
Link: Female Mice Can Be Go Lesbian By Deleting Gene [Rate Link] - Your move, anti-gay protesters
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