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Date: 05/09/10 10:01 AM

113 Responses to Undercover Straight Man Experiences Ex-Gay Therapy

  1. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    May 7, 2010 at 4:43 pm
    Link: Undercover Straight Man Experiences Ex-Gay Therapy - A straight writer pretends to be struggling with attraction to men to find out what happens in gay-to-straight therapy.
  2. Profile photo of dapaperboy
    dapaperboy Male 13-17
    214 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:26 am
    Aaaahhhhh. Sting operations. Gotta love `em.
  3. Profile photo of puffnstuff
    puffnstuff Male 13-17
    3 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:28 am
    I don’t remember exactly when I felt his erection pressing into my back."
    best first line Ever.
  4. Profile photo of mrgimpy
    mrgimpy Male 30-39
    56 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:43 am
    This was gay.
  5. Profile photo of duffytoler
    duffytoler Male 40-49
    5195 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:55 am
    >>... didn`t completely close the door to the cabin, the Guide pushed his way back in. “Are you kidding me?” panted Charles when he was told he had to start all over again.

    Typical control-freak BS. Far more interesting in being "in charge" than anything and everything else. Doesn`t matter if it`s stupid and senseless, they just get off on people following their orders.
  6. Profile photo of puffnstuff
    puffnstuff Male 13-17
    3 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:58 am
    Holy crap, i just read it and that sounds horrible.
  7. Profile photo of Rick_S
    Rick_S Male 40-49
    3282 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:09 am
    "(We end up doing this circle thing a lot.)"

    LOL!
  8. Profile photo of Ani187
    Ani187 Female 30-39
    4448 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:10 am
    That was an interesting read.
  9. Profile photo of HOBYandy
    HOBYandy Male 18-29
    3060 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:15 am
    Wow. Intense.
  10. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:15 am
    Oh man, this is the second article that`s made me cry on IAB in under 20 hours.
  11. Profile photo of Salted_Eggs
    Salted_Eggs Male 18-29
    774 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:19 am
    Nah, I read the first 1/4 of it before I realized how long it was....... That`s terrible, and the price sounds like it`s a scam.
  12. Profile photo of LillianDulci
    LillianDulci Female 18-29
    2674 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:38 am
    It took awhile to read all of that but it was very interesting and worth it. Thanks for posting it IAB ;3 I really wish people weren`t so insecure and those kinds of "retreats" didn`t happen. But the whole thing seemed like it would promote being gay. What straight man chooses to be in those kinds of positions with other men? And the whole pretend killing your father thing was atrocious.
    Geogypsy, I cried a bit too :P
  13. Profile photo of Samuelsoon
    Samuelsoon Male 18-29
    346 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:41 am
    @Geogypsy

    the UK labor article made you cry? Sure, it was somewhat disturbing, but not really sad.

    on-topic: poo is drated up
  14. Profile photo of TheManJT
    TheManJT Male 13-17
    66 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:42 am
    now that`s a story that kept me hooked, a true moment of revelation at how some people struggle with homosexuality
  15. Profile photo of VAJENGA
    VAJENGA Male 30-39
    532 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:46 am
    Homosexuality is a preference not a disease. Some people prefer vanilla ice cream some prefer chocolate(insert crude jokes here)others like both. To say you can "cure" a persons preferences is a rediculous notion. The problem is not with the homosexuals themselves but how "normal" society treats them. Why do people care about what other people do in their private lives? I`ve often heard people say "well I don`t care what they do in their bedrooms, but I don`t want to see it, it disgusts me." Well maybe watching you press your hairy beer gut up against your fat pig of a wife for a kiss disgusts them, but you still have a right to do it and to exist. Organized religions are a huge part of the problem. Most(not all) are a prime example of where people have the right to believe whatever they want to, but then ruin it by pushing their beliefs and personal morals onto other people.
  16. Profile photo of whipsmart
    whipsmart Female 18-29
    665 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:54 am
    poo.
  17. Profile photo of fuzzgrimly
    fuzzgrimly Male 13-17
    30 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:07 pm
    And this is why it feels sick when people say `that`s gay` or call people faggots.
    Homosexuals have a lot to deal with, including a majority of people that think there`s something wrong with them. It`s as if people forget that everyone is human and that homosexuality is just another small difference in a person.
  18. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:09 pm
    To make the long story short, He`s a straight atheist that goes to this camp and in the end helps destroy another man`s progress toward being straight because he lied to him and everyone else.
  19. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25420 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:16 pm
    Would have so lold if he went gay after this :)
  20. Profile photo of drewrew
    drewrew Male 18-29
    68 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:33 pm
    As a gay man, that made me cry ;_; I really do feel for the poor souls who are tricked into these... money grabbing schemes.
  21. Profile photo of plahblah
    plahblah Female 18-29
    151 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:44 pm
    As a gay person, this really depressed and angered me at the same time. I hate how these people have to resort to `straight camps` because of their religion constantly condemning them for something they can`t control. Bah, it pisses me off that this poo is legal. Makes me wanna make a gay camp to fix straightness just to mock the straight camps.
  22. Profile photo of BenTheBug
    BenTheBug Male 18-29
    1195 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:45 pm
    They`re only gay for Jesus now.
  23. Profile photo of Jabbox
    Jabbox Male 18-29
    250 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    I wonder what happens if next time, most of the people are secretly straight atheists undercover, and they just don`t realize it.
  24. Profile photo of Luistom
    Luistom Male 18-29
    133 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:55 pm
    Just me or did that camp sound really gay? 8)
  25. Profile photo of bmh
    bmh Female 18-29
    248 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 12:58 pm
    Kind of sad :/
  26. Profile photo of Gerry1of1
    Gerry1of1 Male 50-59
    36664 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 1:20 pm
    Is there a camp like this where metrosexuals can go to butch-up?
  27. Profile photo of kribbe
    kribbe Male 18-29
    2006 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 1:44 pm
    wow, this is a really touching story
  28. Profile photo of quaintness
    quaintness Male 13-17
    1086 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 2:22 pm
    "destroy another man`s progress toward being straight because he lied to him and everyone else."

    Firstly, you`re confusing the methodology (a necessary one) for undercover people in general, and his motivations. It clearly states in the article that he wanted to help gay people by exposing the absurdity of the religious camp (and I do repeat, of the religious camp), he was concerned that they were hurting themselves with the endless guilt and shame that religion proffers in place of tolerance.

    Lastly, it is foolish to try to change who one is (and I am not even sure if it IS possible to change one`s sexual preference; why don`t you try liking guys for a day?), especially to please others and mainstream society.
  29. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4682 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 2:33 pm
    The worst thing about that article was reading the comments below it (on the blog itself, not the IAB comments). Some twat called the guy a left-wing facist for posting the article, followed by a massive rant about how homosexuality is a disease which is about as ironic as you can get.
  30. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 3:11 pm
    Good points made well with excellent English - quaintness` post has improved my day.
  31. Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 3:12 pm
    "destroy another man`s progress toward being straight..."

    People do NOT change their sexual orientation, these folks are filled with self loathing and pain and this buffoonish chicanery can often lead them to suicide because they can`t change and they see no other way out. The sooner this unbelievable stupidity dies the ignominious death it has coming to it, the better off the world will be.
  32. Profile photo of SmilinSam
    SmilinSam Female 18-29
    3599 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 3:14 pm
    wow... i wish this mans message would reach the people that it was really meant to reach, sadly they like to cut themselves off from anything that might make them stop and think. they call it "worldly" or "secular" and it`s almost like a curse word to them. you must not invite "worldly" views into your life, don`t watch or read anything that may change your mind. you would think that they would welcome some controversy, if it would let them prove that their way was righteous... it sadly cannot hold up to scrutiny however.
  33. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 3:21 pm
    So...using a combination of various unpleasant forms of brainwashing, they have some degree of success in suppressing some harmless aspects of some people`s sexuality while increasing their own wealth and power.

    Nasty, ugly behaviour. If their god exists, he is scum.
  34. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9308 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 3:48 pm
    All I ask of the next generation is this:

    Don`t let someone make up your own mind, gain experience, expose yourself to what you do not know, admit when you are incorrect, and for the love of all things PLEASE learn from the mistakes of your predecessors and those of your own making.
  35. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2704 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 4:33 pm
    I think I`ll say for the first time in my life, "TLDR"
  36. Profile photo of ubfwins
    ubfwins Male 18-29
    95 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 4:58 pm
    I am not only deeply disgusted that such things exist, but also extremely depressed that I can`t do anything about it. religion today is the greatest fault in humanity, imo
  37. Profile photo of sleepyjoey
    sleepyjoey Male 18-29
    122 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 5:08 pm
    Hooooly drat wtf is with people.
  38. Profile photo of gorl99
    gorl99 Female 18-29
    10 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 6:28 pm
    this is very upsetting; upsetting that things like this exist, upsetting that people are brainwashed to think that it works, upsetting that people can`t just accept who they are b/c they are told that it is a "sin" and then start to resent themselves for who they are

    on a lighter note, it reminded me of the satire film But i`m a cheerleader
  39. Profile photo of fabarati
    fabarati Male 18-29
    1240 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 6:38 pm
    That was sad and intense and fascinating and... I don`t know what.

    Dave is in a bad place, really. Deny himself, or rip apart his family, whom he probably loves in one way or another. Either way, he`d be racked with guilt, torn and probably a bit broken, though in the long run it`d be better for all if he was honest about himself. His wife probably knows he doesn`t love her as a husband, though she may think he is not attracted to her anymore. And being gay doesn`t stop him from being a good father and loving his childrem.

    Another thing that stood out was the question. What is a man? Seriously, think about it, what defines being a man? It`s not just one or two things, and it sure as hell isn`t sexual orientation. It`s a multitude of different qualities, that are also inherent in the definition of a woman, only in other combinations and amounts.
  40. Profile photo of fabarati
    fabarati Male 18-29
    1240 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 6:40 pm
    @gorl99: It reminded me of that movie as well. Didn`t think anyone else had seen it.
  41. Profile photo of lkc1
    lkc1 Female 13-17
    224 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 6:46 pm
    I can only hope that the leaders of modern religion come to accept homosexuality. I think that most do not realize the stress they put on the lives of people who struggle with their supposed sin.
  42. Profile photo of slayer50515
    slayer50515 Male 18-29
    988 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 6:46 pm
    Hooooly sh*t this is a long read.
  43. Profile photo of testtickle
    testtickle Male 18-29
    39 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 7:28 pm
    Dang im an east coaster, i want to try an in and out burger now...
  44. Profile photo of sleepyjoey
    sleepyjoey Male 18-29
    122 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 7:37 pm
    @Angilion , Very well said.
  45. Profile photo of axeman929
    axeman929 Male 30-39
    195 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 8:17 pm
    Can master chief please take care of the spam poster below`
  46. Profile photo of jinxiejae
    jinxiejae Female 30-39
    2927 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 9:33 pm
    seriously? lets forget the whole morality thing of straight vs gay for a second. do they really think exercises like this can work? c`mon if they were medical psychiatric professionals talking with each person rationally then maybe, but not likely, they might have some sort of claim. but this sounds like some hippie new age bullpoo. morons.
  47. Profile photo of jinxiejae
    jinxiejae Female 30-39
    2927 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 9:34 pm
    gorl 99 i just saw that movie!
  48. Profile photo of krazykarl9
    krazykarl9 Male 18-29
    60 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 9:59 pm
    I smell closet fag?
  49. Profile photo of zombieland
    zombieland Male 18-29
    418 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:08 pm
    if u think im reading all that, ur fu*ked
  50. Profile photo of cagel
    cagel Female 18-29
    275 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:29 pm
    Does it make me a bad person that the image of the "motorcycle" position with the dude`s boner in his back kind of turned me on?
  51. Profile photo of jinxiejae
    jinxiejae Female 30-39
    2927 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:33 pm
    krazykarl, he who smelt it delt it
  52. Profile photo of alley228
    alley228 Female 18-29
    238 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 10:42 pm
    this... i don`t even know what to say about this anymore.... religion is f*cked in the head.
  53. Profile photo of madduck
    madduck Female 50-59
    7559 posts
    May 9, 2010 at 11:15 pm
    How sad- that people cannot be what they are, that some are caught- as someone said- how do you destroy a family you love? More awful is the idea of taking money from people to try and cure them of something that is normal.
  54. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:00 am
    quaintness: His methodology was was suspect from the start, He went there with the intent of confirming his prejudices. `Gayness` is not clear cut, There are varying degrees of it including bisexuality. Despite the propaganda, Gayness has a lot of `gray area` and many struggle with it. People have recovered from their homosexuality and become straight again. This is very inconvenient truth to the Gay/Lesbian groups that are adamant that it`s not a `choice`.

    People can change, If they really want to, It`s no different than addiction to drugs & alcohol. The same struggles, The same self-loathing, The same backsliding, The same damage to relationships. I know that`s not the popular view, Right now, But science is pointing to factors that are not genetic based. So They aren`t `Born that way`.
  55. Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:09 am
    So you could change to be Gay if you really wanted to CrakrJak?
  56. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:26 am
    People have recovered from their homosexuality and become straight again. This is very inconvenient truth to the Gay/Lesbian groups that are adamant that it`s not a `choice`. People can change, If they really want to, It`s no different than addiction to drugs & alcohol.
    Crakr, as much as I respect you, I can`t help but be disgusted by your stance on this. Homosexuals don`t "recover" and "become straight again". As someone else on this thread said, you try being sexually attracted to dudes for a day. It ain`t a choice. Could you do it? I know I couldn`t.

    I applaud what this guy did. It`s akin to a professional magician going undercover to out so-called mediums who can speak with the dead, to tell Aunt Agnes that Uncle Walt is happy is heaven, and is speaking to her from beyond the grave.

    It`s snake-oil salesmanship of the highest order, preying on the weak, the hurt, the disenfranchised of society purely for profit.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:34 am
    aikiman: Nice try at baiting there.

    I have heard of `straight` porn stars going `gay` because it pays more money. I`ve have a female relative that WAS lesbian, She decided she didn`t like their lifestyle and wanted to be reunited with her family. She is much happier now and is dating men again.

  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:37 am
    davymid: So you`re going to call my cousin a `liar` and `faker` then ? Because the `Black or White` stance you just took, Condemns her and everyone else that has recovered from homosexuality.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:40 am
    you try being sexually attracted to dudes for a day.

    That would be akin to being an alcoholic for a day, It doesn`t happen like that and you know it.
  • Profile photo of ScottSerious
    ScottSerious Male 18-29
    5316 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:47 am
    wtf! i couldnt even get pass the first paragraph.
  • Profile photo of tstyblucryns
    tstyblucryns Male 18-29
    496 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:48 am
    i cannot believe that i just read the whole article and then some. i really cannot believe WHAT i just read, i mean...if that is all true then i am no longer just bored; i am sad.

    may god have mercy on their souls. the people who are apparently getting rich, that is.
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:50 am
    Crakr, I have no idea about your cousin. Having said that, here comes the clue-train, last stop, you.

    When you stop talking about sexual preference in language such as "recovered from homosexuality." like it`s a f*cking disease like cancer, then I`ll engage in discourse.

  • Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:54 am
    CrakrJak: Nice try at baiting there.

    Even nicer try at evading the question lol
    You`re so convinced that `Gayness` is a choice but as davymid says, there`s no way I could choose to be attracted to dudes. Could you?

    `I have heard of `straight` porn stars going `gay` because it pays more money.` - and I`ve heard of some people eating sh*t for money, doesn`t mean they love it, just that they love money more.


  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 12:59 am
    That would be akin to being an alcoholic for a day, It doesn`t happen like that and you know it.
    No, actually I don`t know it. If I like dudes` asses more than girls asses, that`s not a "disease" that I can recover from, that`s just me preferring guys` asses. Like preferring chocolate ice-cream over vanilla. Am I a recovering vanilla-lover who needs to be shown the way? No, I just prefer f*cking chocolate, why is that hard for you to grasp?

    I should say that I have no beef with religious nut-jobs, you do your thing. But when it starts encroaching on basic human rights such as gay marriage equality, or AIDS in Africa, or teaching kids that humans rode dinosaurs bareback, you can be damn well sure I`m gonna call you out on your addled crazy bullsh*t.

    Every time.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 1:22 am
    aikiman, davymid:

    Neither one of you can `Step into another`s shoes` either. We all have our own life to lead. Both of you are convinced there is no such thing as `former homosexuals`, Maybe that`s because you`ve never met one. Maybe that`s because you`re not willing to accept that maybe it is like an addiction. I`m not talking about it like a disease or ice cream, Those are your absurdities.

    `Preference` implies choice.

    Pref·er·ence:
    1 a : the act of preferring : the state of being preferred b : the power or opportunity of choosing.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 1:55 am
    I should say that I have no beef with religious nut-jobs, you do your thing. But when it starts encroaching on basic human rights....I`m gonna call you out on your addled crazy bullsh*t.

    How am I `encroaching on basic human rights` ?

    I revealed a part of my cousin`s life, A life she`s left behind. I can`t explain her former preference, But it`s clear she chose it then changed her mind. No one in the family shunned her or scolded her. Her parents expressed their disappointment, But they love her regardless. She decided to join the lesbian community and eventually became disillusioned with it. She sought help with her former preference and now she`s straight.

    I fail to see how her story infringes on anyone else`s rights, and it`s not `crazy bullsh*t`.
  • Profile photo of Romybun88
    Romybun88 Female 18-29
    65 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:45 am
    @crakrJak
    Thats just wrong to say that! From where im standing, unless your cousin is bisexual, it looks like she is a lesbian which theres nothing wrong with and she came out and then her family and friends made her feel so bad and were `dissappointed` in her! No wonder she went back to pretending to be straight just to have some peace but i bet she isnt happy with it because if she is lesbian then its not a choice its how your brain is wired the same as those people who are transexual their brain is wired as a man or woman in a body of the opposite sex.
    You are naive and frankly an idiot if you think people can just choose otherwise; its not a preference its a psychological and physiological phenomona of mankind and theres absolutely nothing wrong with it!
    Grow up and dont be hating people.
    have a nice day!
  • Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8306 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 3:05 am
    > davymid
    > that`s just me preferring guys` asses

    Imagonna copy/paste that for future use.
  • Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8306 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 4:12 am
  • Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 4:30 am
    Crakrjak: I have no problem believing that there can be `former homosexuals`. I do have a problem with your stance that homosexuality is wrong and that it`s somethin to `recover` from. Like most homophobes, you`re hung up too much on gay sex and not gay relationships. How can loving another person be an addiction? I agree, loving butt sex has the potential to become an addiction in the same way as loving straight sex can for some people. But being `in love` with someone is a strange thing to label as an addiction
  • Profile photo of moefreak
    moefreak Female 18-29
    1963 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 5:09 am
    CrakrJak, although preference implies choice, we still can`t choose what we prefer. We can choose whether or not we act out on those preferences, but not which preferences we get.

    I don`t even believe that there is such clear divisions of "straight" "bi-sexual" and "gay". I think it`s more of a spectrum deal, with straight meaning "zero to possibly slight attraction to same sex", bi-sexual meaning "pretty much equal attraction to both sexes" and gay meaning "zero to possibly slight attraction to opposite sex". There is a world of variety in between there.
  • Profile photo of Prejudiced
    Prejudiced Female 18-29
    250 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 5:43 am
    Pairs of mxm and fxf animals exist in the wild. They mate and live like an other pair, sometimes bringing a mate of the opposite sex into their pairing just to get offspring, then chase him/her away and raise them on their own. Male pairs of swans are well known to do this, and the offspring actually has a higher chance of survival (then if born to a MxF pair). Its a natural thing IMHO. Some species rely on sex (straight and otherwise) to keep order... Like the Bonobo, their a bisexual species. Makes the argument of `peccatum contra naturam` (sin against nature) pretty invalid.

    I don`t usually like referencing wikipedia, but they have a good article on it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

    cont next post
  • Profile photo of Prejudiced
    Prejudiced Female 18-29
    250 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 5:47 am

    Although I`d say I`m attracted to males (mostly anyway. Theres afew females I find attractive. Think back to psychology when you did the sexual attraction scale, with 1 being totally gay and 10 being totaly straight, 5 being bi. I`d probably hit a 7 or 8.), If I was to fall in love with a woman, I`d have no qualms about it. Love and a decent relationship are not defined buy the genders of those involved. If you dont like homosexual relationships, fine, don`t get involved one. No ones going to make you, relax. Thats no issue, but don`t try to tell others what they feel for someone is wrong. What are you, afraid some male will rape you? Why do people have this fear?
  • Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 7:23 am
    Is it just me, or does Tom Wolfe’s The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test seem like a bad choice for an undercover weekend retreat with a group of Mormons?
  • Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1610 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 7:59 am
    Also, I`m sure Freud would love that Dave has people simulate beating their fathers to death with a baseball bat.
  • Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 9:25 am
    None of these clowns even have a legit medical license, the APA and all other reputable medical agencies say these people are frauds and nutcases, they don`t and won`t share their "research" on the subject because even they know it`s a bunch of horsecrap.

    These people are cynically manipulating people for their money and damaging already perfectly healthy individuals. It`s downright criminal.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 10:08 am
    Romybun88: Our brains are wired in many different ways, To say it`s a "black & white" issue is to show a lot of ignorance on the topic. As moefreak stated there is a lot of "gray area".

    her family and friends made her feel so bad and were `dissappointed` in her! No wonder she went back to pretending to be straight just to have some peace but i bet she isnt happy with it

    Look, it`s natural for parents to look forward to having a wedding for their daughter and grandchildren. No one hounded her about it, No one yelled at her (That I know of) and She was loved regardless.

    It`s clear something in her former lifestyle disturbed her enough to change, She is happier now I assure you. It`s the myth that `Once you`re gay you can`t go back` That has hurt a lot of people. It`s also why I believe a lot of people stay closeted. If you think the stigma of being gay is bad, The stigma of being ex-gay is even worse.
  • Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 10:12 am
    All you need to know about these wackos.

    Give it up Crackr, nobody believes you.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 10:28 am
    Queenzira: ...the APA and all other reputable medical agencies...

    The APA once treated gays and lesbians as mental defectives giving them shock treatments and drugs to try and `cure` them. I believe it was classified wrong from the very beginning.

    When asked if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology, gay gene researcher, Dean Hamer, replied, "Absolutely not. From twin studies, we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors...not negate the psychosocial factors"

    Some people have a craving for alcohol so strong that they feel powerless to resist it. But those people are free to choose to seek treatment for this addiction with drugs, therapy, and support groups.

    Why do people now feel the need to deny wavering homosexuals the same kind of treatment, If they want it ?
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 10:30 am
    QueenZira: The daily kos, Yeah what a reliable source they are ... NOT.
  • Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 10:37 am
    Probably because it doesn`t work and it does greater damage to them rather than "help" at all! Stop trying to relate sexual orientation to alcoholism, the two are not remotely related in psychological literature, do you think my "addiction" to men could be cured by an ex straight program? Do you??? Sexual orientation is like breathing, no one ever taught you to breathe did they?

    You know, every now and again I skim through the Bible because I admire those lofty xian ideals that members of your religion find so hard to practice, and I find some gems I actually adore,

    "If anyone says, "I love God" yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen." 1 John 20.
  • Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 10:38 am
    Did you see the article`s MANY Official citations? Conveniently skip over those huh?
  • Profile photo of gingernut333
    gingernut333 Female 18-29
    1071 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 11:29 am
    Um, as much as I hate to get into this debate, CrakrJak, couldn`t it also be seen as the other way around?

    You said earlier; "I`ve have a female relative that WAS lesbian, She decided she didn`t like their lifestyle and wanted to be reunited with her family. She is much happier now and is dating men again.", but I have a female relative that WAS straight who decided she didn`t like their lifestyle and is much happier now in a long term committed relationship with another woman.

    I think it`s a choice that`s all, if someone`s ashamed of how they feel towards members of the same sex (but I don`t see why they should!) then by all means allow them to try something like this but I don`t think you can assume that all gay/bisexual people would be much happier if they were straight =)
  • Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 11:58 am
    The homo/hetero split isn`t as neat as it`s made out to be.

    CrakrJak has given an example of a bisexual woman who has apparently suppressed the homosexual side of her sexuality. He claims that it wasn`t due to outside pressure, but I find that claim implausible given his position on homosexuality.

    Then there`s the "homosexual community" malarky, like it was a chess club or something. Most of the homosexual people I know are not part of this "community". They`re just ordinary people living ordinary lives.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 1:20 pm
    Angilion: You know as well as i do that certain bars and clubs are `gay/lesbian` and others exclude them. There are also communities known for their higher percentage of `gays/lesbians`. You ignorance of this is amazing.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 1:39 pm
    The odds of substance use for lesbian, gay and bisexual (LGB) youth are on average 190 percent higher than for heterosexual youth, according to a study by University of Pittsburgh researchers published in the current issue of Addiction. (Mar 2008)

    “Gay and bi­sex­u­al male path­o­log­i­cal gam­b­lers may re­quire more in­ten­sive or spe­cial­ized treat­ment” than oth­er ones, wrote the au­thors of the stu­dy, pub­lished in the No­v­/De­c­ is­sue of the re­search jour­nal Com­p­re­hen­sive Psy­chi­a­try.

    Gays and lesbians in California, for example, smoke at twice the rate as heterosexual residents: more than 30 percent of gays, lesbians, and transgendered Californians smoke, compared to 14 percent of the general population. the San Francisco Chronicle reported Aug. 6. 2006.

    But it has
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 1:40 pm
    But it has nothing to do with addiction right ?
  • Profile photo of QueenZira
    QueenZira Female 18-29
    2228 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 1:47 pm
    You completely ignore the effects of social ostracism and stigma when it comes to being gay, you would become depressed, drink and seek relief in any form you could if you thought you were going to be attacked or shunned if you were to show your true sexual orientation as well.

    Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:26 pm
    You completely ignore the effects of social ostracism and stigma when it comes to being.... Addicted ? Yes, That happens to most addicts.
  • Profile photo of Nucleartoast
    Nucleartoast Female 13-17
    258 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:27 pm
    oh please; why does everyone assume that being straight is a happier lifestyle? Guys suck, sometimes i wish i was a lesbian just so i didn`t have to deal with male bullsh*t.
  • Profile photo of moefreak
    moefreak Female 18-29
    1963 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:28 pm
    CrakrJak, could I see a link to that study?
    And what QueenZira said is completely right. Gay and bisexual people are also more likely to be depressed in their youth, most likely due to the difficulties in struggling with feeling different and lack of acceptance from family and peers, and depressed people are more likely to suffer from substance abuse issues.
  • Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17514 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:31 pm
    moefreak: I gave the sources to all 3. Which do you want ?
  • Profile photo of moefreak
    moefreak Female 18-29
    1963 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    Well all of them, would be great. I am looking for them myself now, but since you seemed to have them handy, links would have been convenient.
  • Profile photo of moefreak
    moefreak Female 18-29
    1963 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:52 pm
    Well one of the studies I believe you were talking about said "many LGB individuals experience hostility, discrimination and violence due to a largely homophobic culture. Thus, sexual minority status serves as a chronic stressor
    that may impair physical and psychological functioning, increasing one’s susceptibility to illness and disease, and perhaps, substance use. There is some preliminary evidence to suggest that these mechanisms might be operating in LGB youth."
  • Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:52 pm
    Angilion: You know as well as i do that certain bars and clubs are `gay/lesbian` and others exclude them. There are also communities known for their higher percentage of `gays/lesbians`. You ignorance of this is amazing.

    It would be if it existed, but as usual you`re fighting a strawman of your own making.

    I can do it too. It`s not hard.

    CrakrJak, you know as well as I do that cows are not the only animals that can eat grass. Grass is part of the diet of many animals. Your ignorance of this is amazing.

    See? I can make up a silly position, claim it`s your position and ridicule you for it. Just as you`re doing to me. The difference is that I`m doing it deliberately and openly in order to make a point, not as an underhanded way to make you look silly because I can`t counter your arguments.
  • Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:52 pm
    CrakrJak: Do you seriously believe that homosexuality is an addiction?
    If you look at the statistics, you will find that any persecuted and ostracised group will tend to have higher rates of substance abuse. In your logic, homosexuals use more drugs therefore homosexuality is an addiction. Using the same logic, statistically more wife beaters are alcoholics therefore wife beating is an addiction. Remember, correlation does not imply causation.
  • Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12387 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 2:57 pm
    oh please; why does everyone assume that being straight is a happier lifestyle? Guys suck, sometimes i wish i was a lesbian just so i didn`t have to deal with male bullsh*t.

    You should stay single until you gain enough wisdom to overcome your irrational prejudices, if you ever do. You`ll be happier and all the men who won`t have to put up with you will be happier. Everyone is better off. Just be honest and tell any man who in any way expresses any interest in you that you`re a raving sexist bigot and he`d be better off ignoring you.
  • Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 3:00 pm
    Ah, I get what you`re saying now. If you have an addictive personality, it`s likely that you`ll turn gay too. Wow, I`m going to keep away from the gym and all those guys addicted to adrenaline. Sh*t, my firends son is addicted to Xbox, I bet he`s gay...and most of my friends are addicted to watching football and the world cup is coming up...My ass is toast.
  • Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 4:51 pm
    Article: "I did fear a bit for my safety: I worried what would happen if I was, well, outed."
    LMAO!!!!!

    Author: "I miss my I-Pod. I have some Rage Against the Machine on there..."
    PCC Staff: "Get him girls! I mean `grab `im!...` I mean boys! Uhhh... I mean, uhh... Men. Dammit, we`re really gay, aren`t we?"
    Robert: "Yep..."
  • Profile photo of IssaTheFiend
    IssaTheFiend Female 18-29
    2353 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 6:52 pm
    FTA: "sitting on the floor in the darkened room: one guide giving “healing-touch therapy” while the surrounding men rested their hands on the receiver."

    That sounds pretty damn gay to me.
  • Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    May 10, 2010 at 9:15 pm
    It`s sound rather COGIC with just a tiche of "Meet me in the restroom later so I can blow you."

    I really like what he asks Dave at the end.
  • Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 12:03 am
    CodeJockey: lol
    Author: I knew it, my musical taste gave me away didn`t it?
    Men: Actually, it was the fact that your shirt didn`t match your pants.
  • Profile photo of Wizard77
    Wizard77 Male 40-49
    582 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 1:04 am
    Nucleartoast Said "oh please; why does everyone assume that being straight is a happier lifestyle? Guys suck, sometimes i wish i was a lesbian just so i didn`t have to deal with male bullsh*t."

    You know, us guys wish you were a lesbian too.
  • Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12140 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 2:18 am
    vv What wizard said.
  • Profile photo of Atheist_Mary
    Atheist_Mary Female 30-39
    2 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 3:05 am
    Ted`s in my Atheist club here in Sacramento! It`s a surprise to see his article here,but it`s really a treat to watch him do the presentation in person. As for him repeating that he is hetero,it really applies to the subject at hand. This project was more to show how religion is wrong,not homosexuality.
  • Profile photo of KannaLilly
    KannaLilly Female 13-17
    635 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    I`m sobbing like a little kid now. I don`t know... just makes me miss my dad a whole lot.

    Question; is this whole `father issue` stuff supposedly applicable to lesbians as a `mother issue` thing? Because myself and my one other bi friend are both missing father figures, but I love my mommy <3 Proof that these programs are homophobic bullpoo?

    Anyway, the article is amazingly well written, and obviously very deep. I`m not a journalist, but Ted Cox just made my list of real - life heroes.
  • Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 4:13 pm
    Kanna, I`d have to say that hanging a person`s sexual preference completely on parental presence or, the lack thereof, is at the very least simplistic if not misguided.
    My take on the program in the article, was that it wad-class everyone as having the exact same psychological demons. The analyzer or, in this case, the program`s designer has put too much of himself into the prognosis. This is exactly why much of Freud`s actual work has been discredited.

    Wanting to be like the parent you admire or
    seeking the closeness of an unavailable parent
    are each a long way from discovering which partner gender characteristics will assist or hinder sexual gratification.

    Parents may INFLUENCE what we find admirable in our partners, however. Our parents do influence much of our behavior for, we learn most though observation.
  • Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 4:14 pm
    A few of the things described in the program were just plain dangerous. One in particular: "Destroy your dad so you can have a new one."
    It would have been safer and just as effective they`d told him to "destroy the news paper between you so you can give dad a hug."

    This leads to what I`d like you to ask yourself: Do you want to destroy your parents or do you want do destroy the walls between you?


    In my work, I`m often teaching people new tech. Some people will withdraw from something new saying "I`ll just mess that up."

    To them I say "Somewhere in your life, there was a person that made you feel like you shouldn`t try because you weren`t strong enough or smart enough. The next time you hear that voice, tell it, in your own inner language: `Eff-off!! This is MINE! I WORKED HARD for this!`"
  • Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 4:15 pm
    I don`t recall ever telling anyone "Beat the effing-shi# out that voice with A BAT!!... Until the voice is dead!... `Cause we`re getting you a new effing voice that will ..."
    I`m trying to help people be less afraid to make the minor, correctable mistakes that go along with the self teaching process not set them on the path to parricide.

  • Profile photo of CodeJockey
    CodeJockey Male 40-49
    5611 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 4:39 pm
    So, Kanna, over all though, I have to tell you that I`m of the opinion that a person may have psychological problems to work past but, the state of being lesbian/gay isn`t one of them.
  • Profile photo of lerie
    lerie Female 18-29
    1265 posts
    May 11, 2010 at 5:15 pm
    This crap makes me sick. I wonder when people will understand no one can change his or her sexual preference. You can choose to excersice or not your sexuality, but who you are never changes.
  • Profile photo of shappy
    shappy Male 18-29
    757 posts
    June 29, 2010 at 5:15 pm
    im the last person to ever post on this link. thank you and goodnight
  • Profile photo of ElSombrero
    ElSombrero Male 13-17
    716 posts
    August 3, 2010 at 10:59 pm
    Wrong person below me.
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