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Date: 04/21/10 06:30 PM

204 Responses to The First Lady Says, `His Home Country, Kenya`

  1. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 1:07 pm
    Link: The First Lady Says, `His Home Country, Kenya` - Whoa, did Michelle Obama just actually say Barrack is from Kenya ?
  2. Profile photo of kittyRAH
    kittyRAH Male 70 & Over
    7 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:04 pm
    wow 31 second speach
  3. Profile photo of kittyRAH
    kittyRAH Male 70 & Over
    7 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:04 pm
    speech
  4. Profile photo of bobaah_mc
    bobaah_mc Male 18-29
    105 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:07 pm
    He`s the son of a Kenyan. He can quite rightly consider Kenya his home country. Cue the birth certificate debate again...
  5. Profile photo of DeutschDude9
    DeutschDude9 Male 18-29
    473 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:09 pm
    I don`t think she meant what every troll in this forum is going to interpret.
  6. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:10 pm
    Whats the point, he was born there!
  7. Profile photo of Fartman51
    Fartman51 Male 13-17
    67 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:14 pm
    First off, she most likely meant ancestral home when she said that. It`s like second-generation Italians calling Italy their home country, which my Uncle does a lot, actually. And one other thing: It`s spelled Barack, not Barrack.
    Just wanted to clear that stuff up.
  8. Profile photo of SomeShoes
    SomeShoes Male 13-17
    2056 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:17 pm
    lolwut?

    i bet she means like where his bloodline is from, not where he was born
  9. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:19 pm
    he is half Kenyan...his father was Kenyan...there is nothing wrong with feeling like he has two home countries.

    I lived in Kenya for a long time and still to do this feel like it is home to me as much as the US has been.

    I see nothing here that means anything other than that but i know the republicans will string this up and beat it into any shape they can to try and hurt the president...
  10. Profile photo of jamie76
    jamie76 Male 30-39
    2346 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:21 pm
    to all the "birthers" we are still waiting for your smoking gun, proof her was not born in the US

    he provided proof that he was born in the US what do you idiots have that matches...

    NOTHING you got jack poo except hatred and lies.
  11. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:22 pm
    Tomorrow`s Headline: Obama Divorcing Michelle for not Keeping her GD Mouth Shut. wait.....Obama ......Michelle .....Obombshell.
  12. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:23 pm
    "Whats the point, he was born there! "

    One of the rules of being president is that you must be United States born. If you are born outside the United States of America, you are not allowed to be president. If this is true, Barack Obama should NOT be the president, and a LOT of people have to answer for a HUMONGOUS violation.
  13. Profile photo of CoffeeDiiva
    CoffeeDiiva Female 40-49
    1605 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:23 pm
    i don`t think she said uh enough.
  14. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:25 pm
    I love it... that`s like "African Americans" who have never been to any country in Africa, thinking they are African. If I were to use that logic, I am more African than most black people because I have spent time in Kenya and other countries in Africa.

    How about, if you are born in America, then you are American first. This is your home country.
  15. Profile photo of dilldog123
    dilldog123 Male 18-29
    1858 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:35 pm
    Hits: 747 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: CrakrJak

    Oh, CrakrJak? *puts this little tidbit of information in the bin labeled "Conservative Recycling"*
  16. Profile photo of daisymae6580
    daisymae6580 Female 30-39
    33 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:38 pm
    HA! "Obombshell"
  17. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:38 pm
    Let the conspiracy theories begging
  18. Profile photo of riotDX
    riotDX Male 18-29
    600 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 5:40 pm
    "he provided proof that he was born in the US what do you idiots have that matches.."

    No, he didn`t. He NEVER provided any proof, in fact, refused to show his birth certificate.
  19. Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3278 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 6:50 pm
    I`m begging a conspiracy theory right now
  20. Profile photo of Rman1201
    Rman1201 Male 18-29
    247 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 6:52 pm
    Ok, if Obama can`t be president because he`s an American-born `Kenyan`, neither can anyone with any Irish, German, British, Italian, or French blood. Only Native Americans from this point on.
  21. Profile photo of Rman1201
    Rman1201 Male 18-29
    247 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 6:53 pm
    Addendum: Why so racist, Republicans?
  22. Profile photo of 5Cats
    5Cats Male 50-59
    31783 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 6:54 pm
    Liberals only tell the truth by accident.
    Obombshell! lolz!
  23. Profile photo of cudmcpud37
    cudmcpud37 Male 18-29
    3 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 6:56 pm
    Snopes article on Obama`s citizan status
  24. Profile photo of cudmcpud37
    cudmcpud37 Male 18-29
    3 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 6:57 pm
    *citizen
  25. Profile photo of oceanbeast
    oceanbeast Male 18-29
    549 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:02 pm
    it begins to unravel..
  26. Profile photo of Seastone
    Seastone Female 18-29
    613 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:02 pm
    I am a conservative... and I honestly believe that this was just a mistake on her part. I don`t think it is grounds for automatically assuming he`s not an American-- she probably just meant his family`s home but misspoke. As most of my family has been American for nearly three hundred years, I don`t know what it is like to have family elsewhere, but I would imagine it is easy to call the land where his family has homes and where he is welcomed as a son his "home."

    They have said a lot of rather iffy things, but I think this was just a mistake on Mrs. Obama`s part, not a basis for a new conspiracy or support for an old one.
  27. Profile photo of tstyblucryns
    tstyblucryns Male 18-29
    496 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:05 pm
    wow. what a poor choice of words. i mean, obviously she`s referring to his bloodline...but really? just opens the gate for all the over-eager conservatives waiting for something to jump on. i wonder what limbaugh had to say about this one.
  28. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:08 pm
    > Nidonemo
    > If this is true, Barack Obama should NOT be the president, and a LOT of people have to answer for a HUMONGOUS violation

    Ergo, "It Shall Not Be True", whether it is in fact true or not, and even if you came up with DNA, a Birth Certificate, the Witch-Doctor`s Midwife and a carving on a boab tree that said Barry Was Here, it would still never be revealed to the public, because too many people with too much money and influence would make sure of that to save their own asses.
  29. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:11 pm
    Besides which, the whole US "Got to be born here to be President" thing smacks of racism to me. How does NOT being US-born make you any less capable for the job?
  30. Profile photo of im_smart
    im_smart Male 18-29
    99 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:27 pm
    If Mrs. Obama was not talking about HIV when she talked about Barack Obama`s contributions to relief efforts in Kenya, which is where HIV is a significant social issue, then I would actually think twice about what she said.

    PS I really like DeustchDude9`s comment a few down from this one.
  31. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:30 pm
    " that`s like "African Americans" who have never been to any country in Africa, thinking they are African"

    Seriously? That`s why `American` is included in `African American`. I don`t think African Americans claim to be African, but that their ancestors lived in Africa (of course before they were shipped to the Americas as slaves). Besides (and I`m sure someone will go apesh-t over this) all humans originate from Africa. As people migrated from Africa and settled further north, skin color began to lighten.... so in essense, all of us have Black ancestry.
  32. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:32 pm
    How does NOT being US-born make you any less capable for the job?

    Would you want someone who spent the first two or three decades of their life in North Korea, Afghanistan, Indonesia, or Iran running for Governor-General of Australia? It`s not about how qualified they are, it`s about where their allegiance lies.
  33. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:34 pm
    YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
  34. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:37 pm
    (obviously she meant his ancestral home. we aren`t stupid.) YES YES YES YES YES YES! LOL OBOMBSHELL!
  35. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:38 pm
    "It`s not about how qualified they are, it`s about where their allegiance lies."

    So being American automatically means you`re allegiance lies with the U.S.? Does the name Timothy McVeigh ring a bell?
  36. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:41 pm
    IDIOTS!

    Listen, I know we get in heated debates and such over politics here at IAB, but...

    THE CONSTITUTION CLEARLY STATES YOU MUST BE BORN HERE, AND YOU MUST BE 35 YEARS OF AGE TO BE PRESIDENT.

    We all know Obama was born here, that isn`t my beef. My beef is all you crazies who say "To hell with the constitution. If you are qualified, you should be able to be president.

    You can have all the smarts in the world, but if you fail to meet the NATURAL BORN CITIZEN qualification, then you are not qualified, period.

    Change the constitution if you don`t like it. I can bet any amount of money that NONE of your senators or representatives will agree to vote on that change, so live with it.

  37. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:43 pm
    ...That`s why `American` is included in `African American`. I don`t think African Americans claim to be African...

    Wait, What ? That`s like saying, Italian-Americans don`t claim to be Italian or Irish-Americans don`t claim to be Irish. That sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

    This is why I disagree with the whole hyphenated Americans junk. Genealogically I`m a mutt, But I`m just plain `American`. I`m not Welsh-Native American-German-Viking-American, Seriously.
  38. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:45 pm
    To add to me earlier point, I believe Obama was born here, but if that is proven to be untrue.

    OUT ON HIS ASS, LIVING IN BOX ON PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE! lol.
  39. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:46 pm
    "Genealogically I`m a mutt, But I`m just plain `American`. I`m not Welsh-Native American-German-Viking-American"

    Okay, that`s fine. If you want to be "just plain American`, that is your choice. Because you have decided to distance yourself from your ancestry, doesn`t mean everyone should. You may not like it, but tough sh-t.
  40. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:47 pm
    So being American automatically means you`re allegiance lies with the U.S.?

    No, and I certainly did not mean to imply that, but the chances that someone who has been indoctrinated and educated on American values is gonna be a hell of a lot more likely to be a patriot than someone who was indoctrinated with Sharia Law, communism, fascism, etc. Those are not the ideologies this country was founded on and our primary goal as a nation should be to preserve what is in the constitution of our own land.
  41. Profile photo of Nucleartoast
    Nucleartoast Female 13-17
    258 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:51 pm
    Oh cmon, i was born in south carolina but that doesn`t make it my home.
  42. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:52 pm
    Yes it does nucleartoast. It is your birthplace, like it or not. You cannot change it.
  43. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:55 pm
    Brassbull - Can you please explain what `American values` are?
  44. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:57 pm
    @shnard-dog:

    The pursuit of life, liberty, and the American dream. To defend the constitution with your dying breath. To uphold the high standards of being American.

    All of these values, we have lost over the years. We need them back.
  45. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 7:59 pm
    auburnjunky: What gets me is, There would be an equal number of people on the left questioning John McCain`s "Natural Born Citizen" status, Because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. People would be saying that`s not a state in the United States, It is was a `territory` of the US and thus officially part of the United States, Like Puerto Rico is. But that wouldn`t matter to those that would`ve disliked him.

    Right now, I believe Obama could settle the debate and let the news media see his real long-form BC, But he won`t because he knows it makes conservatives look like nuts. That`s just the way he wants it.

    I don`t know if this little `slip` was planned or not, But it does add fuel to the fire.

    At this point I don`t care about his birth place, I`m concerned about his socialistic policy making.
  46. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:03 pm
    Shnard-dog: At the very least, If you`re going to identify yourself with another country, the country should be second. Example American-Italian.

    The `American` part should come first in the hearts and minds of all our citizens.
  47. Profile photo of Norris
    Norris Male 18-29
    1011 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:04 pm
    Simple fact...If Barry was not born in the US....hes out, plain and simple...this is the reason Ahnold will never become president, even though many would like him to be (or so I hear)

    Now, why would he care about his birth certificate? Honestly, why doesn`t he just quell all rumors now..I think its so people talk about him and he remains in the focus, and not so much of his dealings in the shadows...

    Requirements
  48. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:04 pm
    "The pursuit of life, liberty, and the American dream. To defend the constitution with your dying breath. To uphold the high standards of being American."

    That sounds great in theory, but you`re right, this certainly isn`t the case. Also, I would argue that a lot of people come to the U.S. for these very reasons and are far more passionate about these "American values" than many people born here.
  49. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:08 pm
    "The `American` part should come first in the hearts and minds of all our citizens."

    That`s your choice, and I`m fine with that. Just as I`m fine with people putting their country of ancestry first.
  50. Profile photo of goaliejerry
    goaliejerry Male 30-39
    4019 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:09 pm
    "I`m concerned about his socialistic policy making."




    Socialism! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
  51. Profile photo of yudontn0me
    yudontn0me Male 18-29
    845 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:09 pm
    theres nothing wrong with getting tested. whats really embarassing is when you get that little +
  52. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:09 pm
    Snar-dog, please read the Bill of Rights.
  53. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:11 pm
    Brassbull - I have, what`s your point?
  54. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:19 pm
    [quote">I would argue that a lot of people come to the U.S. for these very reasons and are far more passionate about these "American values" than many people born here.[/quote">

    Some people came here and flew planes into the twin towers. Yes, the chance that those people could have become president is nill, but you are opening yourself up to an greater threat of losing your rights. The rights you take for granted I might add because you clearly do if you aren`t very critical of who you allow into the highest office in government. WAKE THE F*** UP!
  55. Profile photo of dudeman1st
    dudeman1st Male 30-39
    1355 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:19 pm
    Yes, white people, you are from Europe. That is your home continent and where your home country lies.
  56. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:22 pm
    *facepalm*

    Snar-dog, those are the american values you asked me about. Not a point, an answer to your question. American values = Bill of Rights.
  57. Profile photo of Lblaxplaya20
    Lblaxplaya20 Male 18-29
    422 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:25 pm
    Barack Obama is as black as a dalmation; white with some black spots thrown in.

    On a more serious note, what are everyone`s thoughts on the future of our country and the future of other industrial powers? Especially the rise of what seems to be the emperor of the world, the Chinese Emperor.
  58. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:28 pm
    "Some people came here and flew planes into the twin towers"

    Yeah, and some who were born and raised here, even served in the military "protecting" our country, blew up a federal building. Also, you should stop hitting yourself, I don`t think you can afford to lose too many more brain cells.
  59. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:30 pm
    "American Values" can mean many things. Because you view the bill of rights as American Values doesn`t mean all Americans see it that way.
  60. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:33 pm
    goaliejerry: You illustrated just a fraction of his increased taxes, That`s not the whole picture.

    Besides, I`m speaking of the government `owning` banks, car companies, the health care system, etc.. and then dictating to them just how they should run their businesses. That`s what is really socialistic` about his policies.
  61. Profile photo of tridirk
    tridirk Male 50-59
    313 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:41 pm
    My "Home Country" is the good `ol US of A. It`s where I was born and live.
  62. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:45 pm
    "American Values" can mean many things.

    You`re right, but without a doubt they mean what is in the constitution, being that the constitution is American.


    Because you view the bill of rights as American Values doesn`t mean all Americans see it that way.


    Yes it does. They might not share those values, but they are undeniably american values because they are in the constitution.....of America.
  63. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:51 pm
    CrakrJak, you might have had a compelling point if any of that were true. But it`s not.
  64. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:51 pm
    First of all, we live in the United States of America, not America. There is North America, Central America, and South America. Secondly, just because you would like to believe you live in a country where everyone shares your idealized patriotic views, it simply isn`t so.
  65. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:52 pm
    So he`s from Kenya then, and not Hawaii? Hmm... I`m still skeptical. I`ll need a few more news posts before I believe that.

    But I don`t care where he came from. I don`t care where our PM came from, it shouldn`t matter.

    THE CONSTITUTION CLEARLY STATES YOU MUST BE BORN HERE... TO BE PRESIDENT.

    Shouldn`t you be more concerned with getting the *best* person to get the job? You`re rolling around in serious socioeconomic issues and you`re really concerned with where he was born?
  66. Profile photo of Rman1201
    Rman1201 Male 18-29
    247 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 8:59 pm
    1) What`s so bad about socialism anyways? Seems to work just fine in Western Europe.

    2) Obama isn`t a socialist. I`m for social democracy, and I would love it if he was a socialist. But plain and simple he just isn`t. Bailouts to major industry in risk of failure has been done by Republicans and Democrats and is primarily done due to the situation in 1929 where delayed bailouts to the banking industry by Hoover largely contributed to the Great Depression. Lesson learned from GD: Bailout to curb immediate consequences and reform to prevent future consequences.
  67. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:01 pm
    fiizok: I could list half-dozen or so news articles illustrating my point, But I think this alone should suffice.

  68. Profile photo of cobrakiller
    cobrakiller Male 18-29
    7426 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:02 pm
    im pretty sure she meant his mother country, like mine are ireland and germany.
  69. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:04 pm
    Sorry, CrakrJak, that magazine cover doesn`t even come close to proving your point.
  70. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:04 pm
    Shnar-dog, you ignored my point that while they might not share those beliefs, they are undoubtedly American values. I hold a bachelors degree in anthropology. I am well aware of the fact that America is not only the United States of America. Obviously we are talking about the US, and if I offended anyone by using a ethno-centric term then I apologize, but with how many times it is used this way on I-A-B forums I suspect everyone has become desensitized to it. If you are nit-picking the terminology I use then you are clearly just being argumentative and have no further points to make. If I didn`t know any better I`d say you were trolling me.
  71. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:05 pm
    By the way, today General Motors Co. announcing the repayment of $8.1 billion in government loans five years ahead of schedule. So much for the right-wing nonsense about the government taking over the auto industry.
  72. Profile photo of Lblaxplaya20
    Lblaxplaya20 Male 18-29
    422 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:06 pm
    @Shnard-dog
    You are a blubbering idiot. If you ask anyone who learned what "America" is, they would say that is the United States of America, so your point is completely irrelevent. Also for you to put Central America in the same category as North and South America is also misguided seeing that Central America is not a continent. It is more of a "Middle East" type of situation.

    And that isnt the only point that makes me think you are an ignoramus, the hot air you were blowing when you commented on African geneaology simply added to the falme.
  73. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:07 pm
    Rman - Some people listen to and watch certain folks that like to throw these terms around without know what they`re talking about. It`s intended to strike fear in people that can`t think for themselves and ultimately vote for the nice looking White person who makes them feel secure. That`s the amazing thing about conservatives right now; someone makes up a bunch of random crap and people buy it without ever questioning it. Those of us that choose to think for ourselves and don`t take other people`s word for it find that what the talking heads want us to believe and what is real are two very different things.
  74. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:11 pm
    Brass - They may be "American" in theory, but the reality is that because people would like these to be qualities of the U.S., in actuality they are often not. I`m glad you were able to recognize your ethnocentrism, though I don`t get the feeling you understand the significance of it.
  75. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:13 pm
    fiizok: I knew it`d be a futile effort anyways, There are very few people that you can actually get to change their minds on any subject.

  76. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:15 pm
    Lblax - You have every right to disagree with me. The fact that you have to resort to namecalling shows that you are threatened by what I have to say. I`m not exactly sure what you disagreed with in my earlier post, but I`d be glad to discuss it with you.
  77. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:16 pm
    1) What`s so bad about socialism anyways? Seems to work just fine in Western Europe.

    Well, for one thing, the average European lives in a smaller house than the average average American living at the poverty level. Their wages are about the same as ours, yet they pay much more for everything thanks to their VAT. That means they all have less stuff. Smaller houses, smaller cars, less disposable income, and a generally lower standard of living, and it`s getting worse.

    If that "works just fine" for you, you`re welcome to go there. You`re not welcome to bring it here.
  78. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:18 pm
    They may be "American" in theory, but the reality is that because people would like these to be qualities of the U.S., in actuality they are often not.


    Not in theory, in writing, in the constitution of A-M-E-R-I-C-A.


    I`m glad you were able to recognize your ethnocentrism, though I don`t get the feeling you understand the significance of it.


    NOW you`re trolling me, and I have no food for you little troll.
  79. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:19 pm
    "There are very few people that you can actually get to change their minds on any subject."

    I guess that`s where we differ. To me it`s not about changing people`s minds. It`s about getting people to think for themselves and not take what Rush or Fox or anyone else has to say as the absolute truth. For me it`s about trying to consider more views than my own and deciding what is true for me. I can see where you`re coming from; it would be convenient for me to agree with you, but seeking other perspectives than my own has led me to realize that I disagree with what you`re saying.
  80. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:19 pm
    "OOPS! Was that my out-loud voice or my silent thinking voice?"
  81. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:21 pm
    Brass - If by trolling you mean disagreeing with what you have to say, then that`s fine, call me what you want.

    I am not saying there aren`t certain values written in the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, etc. But just because they`re written in paper doesn`t mean they actually exist. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These may exist for some, but not everyone has access to these "American" values.
  82. Profile photo of _kiersten_
    _kiersten_ Female 18-29
    1684 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:23 pm
    To be honest...I wouldn`t even care if he WAS born in Kenya. He obviously has lived here half his life, he is an American in my standards. He is an awesome man, and is going to be a great leader. So who gives a sh*t?
  83. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:25 pm
    "That means they all have less stuff. Smaller houses, smaller cars"

    These are bad things? The U.S. is the biggest polluter in the world. Thank God not all countries act as irresponsibly as we do.
  84. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:26 pm
    ...Those of us that choose to think for ourselves and don`t take other people`s word for it...

    This demonstrates not only your prejudice against conservatives, but also condescension and belief that conservatives are like ignorant sheep being lead around by a few zealots. I find that to be really offensive and indicative that you`ve submitted to the same kind of `indoctrination` you just implied.
  85. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:26 pm
    Which part of Europe are you talking about, OldOllie?

    Europe is in no way a single place, although I realise it might look that way to people from thousands of miles away.

    Smaller houses and smaller cars stem from higher population density and, in the case of car size, valuing practicality over size. A boat-sized car is less useful in an urban environment.
  86. Profile photo of Lblaxplaya20
    Lblaxplaya20 Male 18-29
    422 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:29 pm
    @Shnard
    I am not threatened by your ideas, I am infuriated though at the overwhelming number of people with a complete lack of pride for their country.
  87. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:30 pm
    "I knew it`d be a futile effort anyways."

    What effort? You made some specious claims and didn`t back them up.

    I`ve got a copy of a magazine cover that depicts George W. Bush as Alfred E. Newman. Do you think that proves Bush was in fact Alfred E. Newman?
  88. Profile photo of Rman1201
    Rman1201 Male 18-29
    247 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:30 pm
    "Well, for one thing, the average European lives in a smaller house than the average average American living at the poverty level. Their wages are about the same as ours, yet they pay much more for everything thanks to their VAT. That means they all have less stuff. Smaller houses, smaller cars, less disposable income, and a generally lower standard of living, and it`s getting worse.

    If that "works just fine" for you, you`re welcome to go there. You`re not welcome to bring it here. "

    Every piece of research literature I`ve found though shows higher life satisfaction and higher overall levels of happiness. Not to mention the life expectancy is longer, they spend less on healthcare, the average work week is smaller in many of the countries, and they have much more vacation/leave time. If all that matters is having `stuff`, then yes, USA wins. But doesn`t happiness count for anything?
  89. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:31 pm
    Crakr - You can choose to interpret what I said that way, that`s fine. I think there are a lot of conservatives that think for themselves and believe what they do because they`ve researched the issues objectively. But there are also a lot of conservatives (and liberals) who take what certain people have to say as the absolute truth and don`t think for themselves.
  90. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:32 pm
    To me it`s not about changing people`s minds. It`s about getting people to think for themselves and not take what Rush or Fox or anyone else has to say as the absolute truth.

    Again, The standard boilerplate from the left. "Your all a bunch of unthinking sheep" accusation, It`s getting old, It`s condescending, It`s incorrect, and It`s showing your hubris.

    Snap out of it! Most everyone DOES think for themselves, Just because they disagree with you doesn`t mean that they don`t.
  91. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:36 pm
    Lblax - There are certainly aspects to being from the U.S. that I am proud of, but I cannot and will not ignore the many things that are broken and totally f-ed up about the U.S. Whether it`s our "I don`t give a sh-t" attitude towards the environment, our institutionally racist policies, our willingness to go to war with any country that sits on oil, or our unwillingness to recognize basic human rights for all, I simply can`t ignore that there are some things about the U.S. that I am downright ashamed of. It`s because I have pride in being from the U.S. that I can`t sit by and pretend that none of these things are problems and beam with pride.
  92. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:41 pm
    Crakr - I also indicated that there are liberals that do the same thing. I`m not trying to say liberals are better than conservatives or vice versa. If you can honestly say that you`ve examined the issues for yourself, then congrats. I`ll still disagree with you but at least you are thinking for yourself. I would say the same to a liberal that tries to pawn off a bunch of regurgitated info.
  93. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:42 pm
    fiizok: Would it matter ? Really ? They`d just be the same links I`ve posted half-a-dozen times before. They wouldn`t get read, I`d have to re-iterate nearly the whole of each article and after all that typing and arguing back and forth we`d still be at an impasse.

    I`ve got a nose that`s running like a faucet right now and I`m irritated by it. So forgive me if I save myself from thousands of characters of typing tonight, Maybe some other time.
  94. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:44 pm
    OK, CrakrJak. Some other time. However, you can bet I will read them when you do post them.

    On one point I will agree with you. It is tiresome to have to deal with accusations that are old, condescending, incorrect, and displaying hubris. Those are exactly my objections to the claim that Obama is a socialist.

    Good night.
  95. Profile photo of MadhatterVTR
    MadhatterVTR Male 18-29
    198 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:48 pm
    Kenya might be his home country, but if he was born in the united states hes still a us citizen... unfortunately
  96. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 9:50 pm
    @fiizok:

    Sorry so late, but the 8.1 billion GM paid back is half, well not really half the story.

    They still owe 48 billion in stock the US Government (taxpayers) bought.

    When they repay that, and become publically traded again, they will be out of our debt.
  97. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 10:05 pm
    "Well, for one thing, the average {Western} European {has} a generally lower standard of living, and it`s getting worse."

    Untrue. The UN Human Development Index, which is a measurement of health, education and standard of living for every country in the world, ranks the US as #13. Ahead of the US are Norway, Iceland, Ireland, the Netherlands, Sweden, France, Switzerland, Luxembourg and Finland (along with Canada, Australia and Japan).

    9 of the countries that have better standards of living than the US are in Western Europe, all relatively highly socialised. Where do you draw the information from that Western Europeans have a lower standard of living (and getting worse) than Americans?
  98. Profile photo of splurbyburbl
    splurbyburbl Male 30-39
    2798 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 10:11 pm
    "Yes, white people, you are from Europe. That is your home continent and where your home country lies."

    See... I disagree with this whole concept as stated in my earlier post. All natural born American white people currently alive and living in CONUS or OCONUS, well their "mother country" is the UNITED STATES no matter what they think. The same goes for everyone else.

    It`s the detached thinking that people need to stay away from. For instance, my lineage is from Italy, my Grandparents came from Italy, it was their "motherland", not mine. I like the history, I have visited Italy and Sicily and I love the culture, but my mother land is America. I think that`s healthy thinking. Obama`s motherland is AMERICA if in fact he was born here. And that`s all there is to it. Simple... Logical.
  99. Profile photo of Rman1201
    Rman1201 Male 18-29
    247 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 10:22 pm
    There isn`t a perfect political economy out there, but the Western European social model seems to work for the most part. It isn`t perfect, but why not adapt what works and just make some tweaks? Why do we have to slowly and painfully get there instead? We started out with an incredibly small and limited government, and over the years slowly yet surely realized that it doesn`t work, and it does nothing but allow the strong to exploit the weak.
  100. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 10:39 pm
    "Besides which, the whole US "Got to be born here to be President" thing smacks of racism to me. How does NOT being US-born make you any less capable for the job?"

    I would have to say a foreign spy failsafe. Say a guy comes in from...random country...Switzerland. He lives here for about three years, becomes a citizen, goes into politics, gets some experience, and works his way up the chain and becomes president.

    Then after half a year in his seat, the Swiss invade and the entire country is handed over because he was a spy the entire time.

    That would be my guess.
  101. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 10:43 pm
    davy, please don`t use UN data for an argument.

    It isn`t very unbiased, as the UN hates all things American.

    I wish we would have never created it.
  102. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 10:58 pm
    davy, please don`t use UN data for an argument. It isn`t very unbiased, as the UN hates all things American.
    What, because they have the cheek to say that other countries in the world might be better places to live than the US? Or how the UN-IPCC has the audacity to claim that the planet is getting warmer and maybe we should address carbon emissions? Or are you talking about the sheer bare-faced bias in the UN stating that the US shouldn`t invade Iraq just yet, until we`re sure they have those pesky Weapons of Mass Destruction?

    If every other kid in the schoolyard is telling you something that is personally unpalatable to you, they aren`t necessarily being biased and "hating" on you. Sometimes, they might even just be worth listening to, taking a step back and saying "Hey, we`re part of a wider global community here. Maybe we should listen to what the others have to say. Hell, we might even learn something from them."
  103. Profile photo of xxPinkxx
    xxPinkxx Female 18-29
    3830 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:05 pm
    OMG davy you are my hero for saying such TRUE things about the UN.

    and so what if barack is from kenya? everyone in NA is from somewhere. immigrant built countries, remember?
  104. Profile photo of Norris
    Norris Male 18-29
    1011 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:22 pm
    The reason to give a sh*t is because that is the law.

  105. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:29 pm
    "Which part of Europe are you talking about, OldOllie?"

    Actually, I was comparing the entire US to the entire EU -- that happy, happy EU

    Happy, happy Greece:


    Happy, happy France:


    Happy, happy Spain:


    Happy, happy Germany:


    Shall I go on?
  106. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:30 pm
    "and so what if barack is from kenya? everyone in NA is from somewhere. immigrant built countries, remember?"

    the req to be president are few but that makes it all that much more important:

    35, born US citizen (or born aboard to 2 US citizens) or living in the US prior to the writing of the constitution and finally, have lived in the US for at least 14 years.
  107. Profile photo of LandoGriffin
    LandoGriffin Male 30-39
    3844 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:31 pm
    I was born in Minneapolis but I moved to California when I was two years old. If my wife says that California is my "home state" does that somehow suggest I wasn`t born in Minnesota?
  108. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:32 pm
    Ollie, once again you counter published statistical facts with anecdote and hyperbole.

    Nice photos of rioting in Europe. I`ll save myself the bother of posting pics of ghettos, gang-violence and rioting in the US. Heck, I won`t even bother posting pics of average life in Europe, which you`ll find is pretty good (ever been there BTW?).

    I`ll just ask you for some factual statistics which point at how the US has a significantly higher standard of living than Western Europe. I`ve posted my source, please counter.
  109. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:37 pm
    Davy, regarding your UN Human Development Index, it`s all how you choose and weight your variables. Some people think that living in a closet, driving a tin-foil deathtrap, and paying $9/gal. for gas aren`t so bad and don`t give those things much weight.

    The most telling fact is that the US takes in more immigrants than the entire rest of the world combined, and that`s just LEGAL immigrants. That doesn`t even count 20 million people who would rather live here as criminals than stay in their home countries.
  110. Profile photo of panzerlancer
    panzerlancer Male 18-29
    130 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:44 pm
    if a dog is born in a barn you dont call it a horse do you ???
  111. Profile photo of me117
    me117 Male 13-17
    36 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:59 pm
    35! that seems really old and western europe is much cooler than the USA
  112. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 21, 2010 at 11:59 pm
    "Some people think that living in a closet, driving a tin-foil deathtrap, and paying $9/gal. for gas aren`t so bad and don`t give those things much weight."

    1) Living in a closet: When I lived in Europe, I lived in a "closet" here:


    Specifically the middle apartment in this one:


    It was small. It was also very very beautiful, and an awesome place to live.

    2) Driving a tin-foil deathtrap: My "tin-foil deathtrap" is one of these:


    3) $9 gas: Well, considering I could be in Paris in 4 hours, London in 3, Berlin in 6, Milan in 9... expensive gas isn`t such a big deal in Europe.

    Look, I`m not saying Europe is better than America. I`m just defending this notion that it`s a sh*thole to live in. It`s very far from it.
  113. Profile photo of me117
    me117 Male 13-17
    36 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:04 am
    I love where I live, Europe is just like a huge ball of culture where i can travel wherever i like within a day. I`ve never lived in America but, everywhere seems the same, a wierd, twangy accent where your likely to find a confrontation wherever you go.
  114. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:05 am
    Ollie, you should visit some day, you might like it...

    Anyways, gone wildly off-topic here. My apologies IABers.
  115. Profile photo of britt566
    britt566 Female 18-29
    2291 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:08 am
    wow so much tension going on. should have known that anything that has to do with anything would set people off.
  116. Profile photo of 66stang
    66stang Male 18-29
    226 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:10 am
    saying their country is bad because they have riots is wrong. Our country is bad because we DON`T have riots. We sit and complain about how horrible the government is, hows it`s treating us, etc but we do nothing about it. And now instead of a government that is supposed to be scared of it`s citizens, we have citizens scared of their goverment.
  117. Profile photo of fancylady
    fancylady Female 30-39
    864 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:32 am
    Yay Canada !!!/runs away
  118. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:34 am
    "We sit and complain about how horrible the government is, hows it`s treating us, etc but we do nothing about it."

    This sparked a thought...

    In the pictures Ollie posted, Germany, Spain, France and Greece, all show rioting people. Have the people of those countries dealt with, or are dealing with oppression in massive amounts in their history within one or three generations?

    (Simple and real question from myself.)
  119. Profile photo of aikiman
    aikiman Male 40-49
    255 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:34 am
    Yes, you`re right Ollie, Europe is a really, really horrible place to live. I`m sick of seeing old buildings (too many cathedrals and castles), driving tiny cars on tiny roads (driving my MG roadster through the lake district is a bitch)
    and eating food that`s barely been processed. (the farm down the road insists on making its own unpasturised cheese, are they trying to kill me!)

  120. Profile photo of brutalnewt
    brutalnewt Male 30-39
    111 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:47 am
    Yes Ollie, we never have riots in the states. Unless of course a sports team somewhere wins a championship. But other than that, no riots at all. Unless some college students somewhere get ticked about something.
  121. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:51 am
    I`ve never lived in America but, everywhere seems the same, a wierd, twangy accent where your likely to find a confrontation wherever you go.

    America is quite diverse, Many different accents, Different climates, and Various ideologies.

    Where I live, The people are most always friendly. Confrontation is rare, Even when inebriated. So much so that it`s like car horns don`t even exist, They are so rarely used.

    Don`t judge a whole people by their accents or what they type on the internet. I find that people express themselves much more so on the web than they do in person. Don`t let that scare you.
  122. Profile photo of brutalnewt
    brutalnewt Male 30-39
    111 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:56 am
    To answer all that "birther" BS, you do not have to be born in America to be president, you just have to be a US citizen from birth. Which he is because his mother was definitely American. All you need to be a citizen of the US is to either be born here (even if your parents are not citizens) or have one American parent. That`s it. He could have been born on the Moon and he would still be an American citizen.
  123. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 2:08 am
    Nido: Have the people of those countries dealt with, or are dealing with oppression in massive amounts in their history within one or three generations?

    I can`t think of a country, people, or culture on this planet that hasn`t felt oppressed in some way in the past 60 years. Good Luck trying to find that sort of Utopia.

    Sure the US has had some protests and a few riots in the past 30 years, Sometimes violent ones. What we haven`t had is nationwide riots, Whole cities turned into `war zones` for over a week.

    The last instance I can think of where the whole country was in turmoil, Even close to that, Were the riots after Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated (over 40 years ago).
  124. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 2:13 am
    brutalnewt: That is not the letter of the law. But like I said before, I believe Obama leaves this dangling out there as a distraction and to make people that question his birth look like nuts.
  125. Profile photo of brutalnewt
    brutalnewt Male 30-39
    111 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 2:18 am
    CrakrJak: it is my understanding that there is debate over the letter of the law since the framers never expressly defined whether there is a difference between "citizen" and "natural born citizen" for the purposes of the birther debate. And I have to say that I would be disturbed to find out that my children would be incapable of becoming president simply because I was living abroad at the time of their births. I also have to wonder if the birthers would be throwing just as big a fit if John McCain had won.
  126. Profile photo of TNoussis
    TNoussis Male 18-29
    63 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 2:24 am
    Funfact about that riot in spain, it was after Barcelona beat ManU. They were so happy, they f-ing rioted. And the Greek riots were after a 15 year old got shot by a police officer.

    Fanfact 2, Europe has more than 25 million more immigrants than the united states. Clearly the US doesn`t hold an number of immigrants bigger than the rest of the world combined. You can`t just post a bunch of random riot pictures and then tell us they are proof that Europe is somehow unhappy. Nor can you draw up a random immigration rate and put it down as fact.

    I`ve been in france for the last few months, guess what? Not everyone in the world shares the high opinion americans have of their way of life.

    People in Europe don`t want to eat excessive amounts of food that`s had an excess of chemicals put into it. Nor do they like oversized cars and people. They don`t like to consume excessive amounts of natural resources, or burn excessive amounts of fuel to heat their excessively
  127. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 2:54 am
    brutalnewt: Not to crush your hopes but... "Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth." - FAM 1116.1-4(c) "Acquisition and Retention of U.S. Citizenship and Nationality"

    The term "Natural Born Citizen" is fairly well settled law, Which is why the 14th amendment has been modified slightly.

    However section 1 of Article 2 of the constitution has not been changed, The Twelfth Amendment did however widen it to include it`s restrictions to the office of Vice-President as well.
  128. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 3:34 am
    > fancylady
    > Yay Canada !!!/runs away

    Australia facepalms (yep, every one of us) at the Silly Yanks and their politics.
  129. Profile photo of Dominimus
    Dominimus Male 18-29
    8 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 4:29 am
    "People in Europe don`t want to eat excessive amounts of food that`s had an excess of chemicals put into it. Nor do they like oversized cars and people. They don`t like to consume excessive amounts of natural resources, or burn excessive amounts of fuel to heat their excessively"

    Sure they do, they just don`t like to brag about it as much as we do.
  130. Profile photo of shynealise
    shynealise Female 18-29
    2 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 4:40 am
    Barrack`s father, I believe is also named Barrack and from Kenya. Whoa Michelle Obama is keeping it in the family. "we did that as a couple"
  131. Profile photo of GuardinGnome
    GuardinGnome Male 18-29
    2893 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 5:21 am
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO(sarcasm)
    HE`S DEFINITELY NOT FROM KENYA(sarcasm)
    and f**k all you guys trying to defend him. bunch of pussies.
  132. Profile photo of ShadowRyder
    ShadowRyder Male 18-29
    2128 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 5:32 am
    You mean this Kenya?
  133. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 5:39 am
    The people who question President Obamas nationality are racist. They`ve been dying to call him the "N-word" from the moment he began to lead in the polls. Started by attacking his reverend then accused him of being Muslim. Spread rumors about swearing the oath of office on the Koran. Even after releasing his birth certificate (which no president has ever done before) there are morons who refuse to accept it.
  134. Profile photo of radoinc
    radoinc Male 18-29
    184 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 5:45 am
    @Dominimus
    I`m afraid I`ll have to agree.
  135. Profile photo of blckhawk1234
    blckhawk1234 Male 18-29
    518 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 6:30 am
    thats an impersonator first off. Her face straight on doesnt look like her. Second, just shut up.
  136. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 6:45 am
    As another suggestion:

    Try comparing safety testing results for USA cars and the cars you stupidly and ignorantly call "tin-foil deathtraps".

    Or don`t bother. You`re a nationalistic bigot, so obviously you can`t think about the subject. If you could, you wouldn`t be talking such rubbish.

    You`re no better and not really any different to the old communist propaganda about the USA and how the huddled masses live in abject poverty and savagely oppressed by the tiny minority who are hugely rich, blah blah blah. Also, where law has broken down and cities are active war zones between drug dealers with the death rate far higher than any city in Europe. Although that piece of propaganda would at least have some truth in it.
  137. Profile photo of Sigon
    Sigon Male 18-29
    129 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 6:49 am
    teh interwebs is serious business...
  138. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 6:57 am
    I`m glad you were able to recognize your ethnocentrism, though I don`t get the feeling you understand the significance of it.

    If by trolling you mean disagreeing with what you have to say, then that`s fine, call me what you want.

    That first sentence is not a disagreement, it`s an indirect insult. You are saying I was unable to comprehend something despite being repeatedly exposed to the concept while acquiring a degree in anthropology. You`re calling me stupid. You lost the argument, had nothing more to argue, and so you attacked my level of intelligence. That sentence could have no other puspose but to get an emotional reaction out of me. That is why you are a troll.
  139. Profile photo of DFins
    DFins Male 30-39
    5 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:02 am
    I love it! "The people who question President Obama are recist." What is wrong with this statement?.......Anyone???....I think we now know who all the real recists are! You can`t even quest this half white...oops...I mean black president because it`s immediately dismissed as recism. LONG LIVE RACISM RIGHT?!!! Cause without it....what would we b1tch about then huh?
  140. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:14 am
    No. Not the people who question Obama. The people who question his nationality. His birth certificate was produced. The people who don`t believe it are racist. Is that plain english enough for you?
  141. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:19 am
    The people who question President Obamas nationality are racist. They`ve been dying to call him the "N-word" from the moment he began to lead in the polls.

    I voted for Obama. I don`t question his nationality because of any racist ideology, I question it because I don`t trust anyone in Washington. In fact, I think it is everyone`s patriotic duty to question everyone and everything that comes from our government because to not do so is to treat government like a religion.
  142. Profile photo of kilroy5555
    kilroy5555 Male 30-39
    496 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:22 am
    The Constitution requires the president to be a "natural born" US citizen. That doesn`t mean you have to be born on US soil, only that you`re a US citizen at birth. Whether someone is a citizen "at birth" is defined by 8 USC 1401. Specifically subsection (g) might apply to Obama, if he was indeed born outside the US. Subsection (g) applies to people born outside the US and requires that only one parent be a US citizen and that parent must have spent 5+ years in the US before giving birth to the child. I don`t think that anyone can argue that Obama`s mother fits that description, having grown up in the United States. Therefore, Obama`s a natural born citizen. Hope this puts the debate to rest!
  143. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:26 am
    The people who question President Obamas nationality are racist. They`ve been dying to call him the "N-word" from the moment he began to lead in the polls.

    Nigerian????
  144. Profile photo of panzerlancer
    panzerlancer Male 18-29
    130 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:26 am
    ill make it easy for you guys AMERICA SUCKS DICK!!
  145. Profile photo of pui
    pui Female 18-29
    3575 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:28 am
    ... wasn`t his father from Kenya? Surely that is what she means.
  146. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:33 am
    You morons don`t believe the actual birth certificate but I know you believe snopes.com
  147. Profile photo of OldOllie
    OldOllie Male 60-69
    15844 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 8:26 am
    [quote">You morons don`t believe the actual birth certificate but I know you believe snopes.com[/quote">

    You realize, of course, that Snopes.com is just one guy and his wife working out of their house, don`t you? They both happen to be liberal Democrats, and they`re just repeating the Democrats` line that a Certification of Live Birth is the same thing as a Birth Certificate when, in fact, they are not.

    It will be interesting to see how things go in Arizona in 2012 if they end up passing this bill.
  148. Profile photo of b0sanac1
    b0sanac1 Male 18-29
    234 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 8:53 am
    "The people who question President Obamas nationality are racist. They`ve been dying to call him the "N-word" from the moment he began to lead in the polls.


    Nigerian????"

    hahhahah owned!
  149. Profile photo of tstyblucryns
    tstyblucryns Male 18-29
    496 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 8:58 am
    well, i guess i should have stayed here last nite. i would like it said that i am hungry, i would like a biscuit with gravy, and this whole debate is just stupid.

    oh, and i don`t think barry has withheld his BC just to make conservatives look crazy, Jak. they do that all on their own. but to be fair, so do liberals. :D
  150. Profile photo of GothicQueen
    GothicQueen Male 13-17
    4376 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 9:14 am
    His family is Kenyan. His grandmother was born in Kenya if I remember correctly. I think his father was born in Kenya to so don`t quote me on that so technically yeah...Kenya could be considered his home country or at least close enough to it if he had relative that he was close to (father and grandmother) who were born there and kept traditions alive.

    I don`t see the issue with this. Seriously. Why is this even a debate.
  151. Profile photo of flingspoo
    flingspoo Female 18-29
    999 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 9:30 am
    Wait, the insanely rapid spread of AIDS isn`t from "homophobia".
  152. Profile photo of TabooPoison
    TabooPoison Female 18-29
    1062 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 9:32 am
    I`m pretty sure she just meant that that`s where his family is from. I was born in the U.S. but my family is German, so you could say my "home country" is Germany.
  153. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 9:39 am
    No Taboo. As for you personally, your home country is the United States. Whatever state you were born in is your home state.
  154. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 9:46 am
    "That first sentence is not a disagreement, it`s an indirect insult. You are saying I was unable to comprehend something despite being repeatedly exposed to the concept while acquiring a degree in anthropology. You`re calling me stupid."

    If you feel insulted or stupid, then that`s your choice. My point was that you said you recognize your ethnocentrism and yet choose not to integrate that in to your beliefs. Because you understand the concept of ethnocentrism doesn`t mean you`re beliefs are suddenly not ethnocentric. Also, we get it, congrats on your bachelor`s degree in anthropology!
  155. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 9:50 am
    Off topic. Just sayin`.

    She obviously slipped up. This is from 2008. It`s played out.

    He was born in Hawaii.

    If there were more evidence otherwise, like his grandmother also saying Kenya was his home country (ahem) I would bitch.
  156. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:15 am
    "The people who question President Obamas nationality are racist. They`ve been dying to call him the "N-word" from the moment he began to lead in the polls."

    So if you want to know the real location of someone`s birth, you immediately hate that person because of their skin color? -_-;
  157. Profile photo of Webz
    Webz Male 18-29
    542 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:21 am
    I was born in America and I`m a US citizen, but both my parents are Irish so I imagine many would consider Ireland to be my "home country" (even if I didn`t have an Irish citizenship as well).

    I`d say she`s getting at something similar here. A lot of his family are Kenyan.
  158. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:27 am
    They`ve been dying to call him the "N-word" from the moment he began to lead in the polls.

    Not true, They hate his white half too.

    <sarcasm>
  159. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:27 am
    He`s Hawiian. Born in Hawaii. His birth certificate has been produced. No law that Arizona passes will take away the fact that Obama is a natural born citizen. Face it, you just don`t like him, no matter what he says or does you want the opposite.

    Nidonemo, I know you have no problems with reading comprehension. Go back, read it again then feel free to kick yourself.
  160. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:29 am
    @madest:

    There are lots of libs who claim that if you disagree with anything that Obama says, or does, you are automatically a racist.

    That just makes the people claiming racism, racist. They WANT people who disagree to be racist.
  161. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:33 am
    "Nidonemo, I know you have no problems with reading comprehension. Go back, read it again then feel free to kick yourself."

    I just f*cking read the damn thing, it makes no sense. Why would you be racist for questioning someone`s homeland? It`s like me becoming some neo-nazi just for asking "Are you -really- from Canada? May I see your birth certificate please?"
  162. Profile photo of mischeif954
    mischeif954 Male 18-29
    616 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:39 am
    I don`t think it was a mistake and if she apologized for it as a mistake it was just to shut people up. I was born in America but if I were to visit the country my family came from I`d probably refer to it as a home country, home in a sense that my family, in Obama`s case part of his family is rooted there.

    Like an adult visiting their parents and saying ah its good to be home,even though they don`t live there. People need to stop being so technical.
  163. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:42 am
    Look man. You don`t wanna believe that Obama is American don`t believe it. It`ll make you as dumb as a evolution denier.
    The armchair psychologist in me believes that the people who buy this birther crap are indeed racist. They didn`t vote for him in the first place. They think the birth certificate is a part of some 48year conspiracy to get a Muslim extremist into the Whitehouse.
  164. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:42 am
    If I visited my parents and I never lived there, I wouldn`t say "good to be home". If I lived there as a child, I would.
  165. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:44 am
    MADEST WE ARE ALL SAYING SHE JUST SLIPPED UP! WE AGREE HE WAS BORN IN THE USA! STOP CLINGING TO STRAWS AND TRYING TO PROLONG AN ARGUMENT THAT ENDED YESTERDAY! </yelling>
  166. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:46 am
    madest: What has people up in arms is that, What they produced was printed with a laser printer in 2007. Now we all know he wasn`t born in 2007.

    Here is the contraversy

    Is that his real BC ? Is the other form his Grandmother`s application to get a Hawaiian BC ?

    And as you can see John McCain produced his long form BC, So you can`t say he`s being singled out or that it`s `unprecedented`

    As I said before Obama wants this `out there` so you, And people like you, Can continue to call `birthers` racists and nuts. Otherwise he`d have had is long form BC released before the election, Like McCain (and other candidates) did.
  167. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:47 am
    If you feel insulted or stupid, then that`s your choice.

    I don`t feel stupid at all because of what you said.

    My point was that you said you recognize your ethnocentrism and yet choose not to integrate that in to your beliefs. Because you understand the concept of ethnocentrism doesn`t mean you`re beliefs are suddenly not ethnocentric.

    I never said anything to give you the impression I view my own race/culture as superior to anyone else`s, so unless you can offer proof of this, you are a troll. If you are judging me simply on the use of the term "American" when referring to the United States then you

    1. are being rude, unfair, and overly judgemental

    2. are obviously desperate to cast me in a negative light to save face

    3. will be blaming a LOT of other people in this forum who certainly are not ethnocentric.

    BTW, there was a point to me mentioning my degree. Be a man, accept that
  168. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:48 am
    (continues)...you lost the argument, and STOP trolling me.
  169. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:19 am
    "I never said anything to give you the impression I view my own race/culture as superior to anyone else`s"

    You may not have said it outright, but the implication was certainly that people who are foreign born are not fit to be president of the U.S. because of some risk of them being a wolf in sheeps clothing? If that`s the case, we`re all in trouble because there are a lot of people who were born in other countries that are in leadership positions. I`m glad I don`t live in California, Arnold is obviously going to come out shooting any minute.

  170. Profile photo of SPrinkZ
    SPrinkZ Male 18-29
    2275 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:20 am
    "If I visited my parents and I never lived there, I wouldn`t say "good to be home". If I lived there as a child, I would."

    When I go to my tribal grounds I consider it home. I do not live there.

    Must be nice being so involved with your own views on home, race, etc.
  171. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:31 am
    Sprinks, how does anything I said, have anything to do with what you said?

    Don`t quote me unless you have something coherent to say.
  172. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:32 am
    Were you BORN THERE or GROW UP THERE?! If so, then yes, it is home. If not, and you don`t currently live there IT`S NOT HOME!

    We are off topic again. Moving on.
  173. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:42 am
    Shard-dog, you need to go back and read what I said. I never said their values were inferior, I said their values are the opposite of our own values, i.e. freedom, and you cannot argue that freedom is not an value inherent in the United States. We`re back where we started. Instead of arguing with me anymore, why don`t you just read through our thread of arguments over and over and over again. Eventually it will sink in.
  174. Profile photo of gorgack2000
    gorgack2000 Male 13-17
    4683 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:43 am
    Yep, this one remark totally falsifies all the legal documents and birth certificates.
  175. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:45 am
    Brass - Whose values exactly are you saying are "opposite" of our own? Are you saying that the U.S. is the only country that values freedom?
  176. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:47 am
    John McCain was born in Panama.
  177. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:49 am
    I mean, lets be honest here. Can we simply admit that the reason this is even an issue is that conservatives are still pissed that Obama was elected fair and square and are looking for any reason to disqualify him from office? I am not saying liberals wouldn`t or haven`t taken this approach towards other elected officials, but in this case it is definitely about conservatives trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
  178. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:54 am
    No. Not the people who question Obama. The people who question his nationality. His birth certificate was produced. The people who don`t believe it are racist. Is that plain english enough for you?

    Plain English...and plainly illogical.

    Many people have questioned many things about many politicians. Some with reason, some with bizarre conspiracy theories.

    So you`re shouting racism because Obama is *not* being treated differently because of his "race".

    Imagine Bush (either of them) or Clinton in the same position. Would any of the people who dislike them try to make political capital out of it? Of course. Would you call them racist? Of course not.
  179. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:55 am
    @madest:

    So you`re saying that any child born to servicemen on an American base on American territory outside of the continental US makes them a non citizen?

    Just trying to clarify.
  180. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 11:56 am
    People who say we are racist for not supporting Obama are racist themselves. They pray for racism. They want controversy and strife.
  181. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:13 pm
    Yeah that`s a way look at it AJ. You`re not racist you just hate the president for his skin color.
  182. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:14 pm
    @Shnard-dog

    Are you pregnant?
  183. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    Brass - So I`m guess you want me to say "what do you mean?" so you can come up with some "witty" joke or something about how you think I`m an idiot...blah,blah,blah..... and then call me a troll and tell me I got owned. Is that what you`re hoping for?
  184. Profile photo of McGovern1981
    McGovern1981 Male 30-39
    14273 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:03 pm
    @madest

    If your so concerned over racism did you know Obama attended a rascist church also anti-semitic.
  185. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:07 pm
    @madest:

    Wait, what?
  186. Profile photo of Brassbull
    Brassbull Male 30-39
    1614 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:08 pm
    @shnard-dog

    No, I wasn`t going to call you an idiot...but I do think that. What I am implying is that you are being emotional, irrational, and needlessly argumentative. You have not paid attention to any of the points I have made and all of your reactions have been illogical and entirely based on assumptions you are making about me. Please do yourself a favor and stop talking. Or don`t, I don`t care, because I`m not listening to you anymore (everything you asked I have already covered) and I don`t think anyone else is either.
  187. Profile photo of Salted_Eggs
    Salted_Eggs Male 18-29
    774 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:10 pm
    Isn`t she saying that her family history is from Kenya, not where they are born?

    That`s what I thought she meant anyway.
  188. Profile photo of Lou-Saydus
    Lou-Saydus Male 13-17
    216 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:15 pm
    it`s been known for a long time that obama isn`t an american, so what? It`s not like we actually follow the laws in this country.
  189. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:16 pm
    "you are being emotional, irrational, and needlessly argumentative"

    I think most people who would look back over our posts to one another would feel differently. As far as my earlier questions (Whose values exactly are you saying are "opposite" of our own? Are you saying that the U.S. is the only country that values freedom?), you`re right, you answered those loud and clear.

    Finally, I hope the women of I-A-B recognize what an a@@ you are for suggesting that pregnant women are "emotional, irrational, and needlessly argumentative."
  190. Profile photo of pd990
    pd990 Male 18-29
    18 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:45 pm
    @Lou-Saydus: Define American.
  191. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:45 pm
    shnard-dog has obviously never had to live with, or interact with a pregnant woman.
  192. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:46 pm
    @pd990:

    Someone who is born here. Durrrr.
  193. Profile photo of Shnard-dog
    Shnard-dog Male 30-39
    229 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 1:54 pm
    "shnard-dog has obviously never had to live with, or interact with a pregnant woman."

    Wrong and wrong. I am married to and lived with her the whole time she was pregnant. I was objecting to the way Brass was portraying pregnant women as being irrational and needlessly argumentative. That wasn`t my experience at all. I find many of the people on I-A-B are the ones who are irrational and needlessly argumentative.
  194. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 2:01 pm
    But pregnant women are in fact irrational and needlessly argumentative. They will admit this (once the pregnancy is over.)
  195. Profile photo of pd990
    pd990 Male 18-29
    18 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 3:40 pm
    @ auburnjunky: Thank you.
    ---------------
    SInce Obama has a birth certificate, and it says he was born in Hawaii, I believe this proves people who speculate about his nationality wrong, and let`s say I`m a fan of wasting my time on conspiracy theories, and I believe he was born in the farthest point away from the US, his mother is American, and this makes him a "natural born citizen."

    According to article two, section one, paragraph five of the constitution: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President"

    According to the Naturalization acts of 1790 and 1855, if you are: "...born outside of the borders or beyond the control of the United States,...,to a US citizen shall be considered as a natural born Citizen of the United States."

    His mother is an American citizen, so that makes him an American citi
  196. Profile photo of pd990
    pd990 Male 18-29
    18 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    If we were to take things out of context, like we`re doing with Obama`s citizenship case, we can also claim that McCain isn`t American because he was born in Panama, and disregard the fact that Panama was controlled by the US at that time.

    And how does the incidence of birth on American soil makes a person more American than another? I`m pretty sure he`s more American than others who claim they`re American, and then serve the interest of corporation who are destroying this country (e.g.: Rush Limbaugh), or Glenn Beck, who is in love with polarizing the people and dividing this country.
  197. Profile photo of Shadowkin
    Shadowkin Male 40-49
    188 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 5:38 pm
    Being Born in Panama when your parents are both US citizens still qualifies you. When one of your parents are NOT a US citizen and you are born off of US soil (military base, embassy, etc) you do not meet the criteria for President.

    That is the rule. If you don`t like the rule then change it. Don`t break the rule just because it doesn`t suit you. That makes you a criminal at worst, unethical at best.
  198. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 5:58 pm
    You saw Barack Obamas birth certificate but you didn`t see McCains.
  199. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 6:20 pm
    @madest: I saw John McCain`s BC, and his SS card, and his Driver`s license. He provided all these.

    Obama provided a copy of the first page of his birth certificate.
  200. Profile photo of pd990
    pd990 Male 18-29
    18 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 7:46 pm
    The Honolulu Advertiser, Sunday Advertiser, August 13th, 1961:
    http://tinyurl.com/6n3gqp

    The Star Bulletin, Date doesn`t appear on the picture:
    http://tinyurl.com/lcbzqh

    Don`t tell me it`s fake.


  201. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 22, 2010 at 10:10 pm
    madest: I posted a link with McCains BC, I guess you didn`t even bother to click on it.
  202. Profile photo of auburnjunky
    auburnjunky Male 30-39
    10339 posts
    April 23, 2010 at 4:55 am
    Of course not crakrjak. It doesn`t benefit his agenda.

    Lobbyist.
  203. Profile photo of pd990
    pd990 Male 18-29
    18 posts
    April 23, 2010 at 12:34 pm
    @auburnjunky:

    It`s drated up to call him a lobbyist when you`re doing the exact same thing man.
  204. Profile photo of Johanvb
    Johanvb Male 40-49
    496 posts
    April 23, 2010 at 7:59 pm
    MCCain has an SS card?! Doesn`t that statement count as a Godwin?

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