Record Numbers In US Carry Firearms

Submitted by: McGovern1981 6 years ago
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life/page/3/#hybrid_video

Take a look at what studies show has happen to the crime rate.
There are 90 comments:
Male 582
I didnt know anyone even watched MSNBC, LOL
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Male 549
see here in America, you have options, we don`t force anyone to own a gun, we have strict limitations on who can legally own a gun (non-felon citizens that agree to undergo a background check, then there is a waiting period to deter crimes of passion}. if you don`t want a gun you don`t have to have one, but if you are a law abiding sane citizen you are more than welcome to buy as many as you`d like, and if someone is in your house in the middle of the night MOST states will look the other way and rule it as self defense, why? because no one breaks into your house for pleasantries, they are in there to steal, and someone who has broken into your house with intent to steal probably has intent to harm anyone in that house to get away.

oh and one more thing, our guns ensure that we as a country will never be simply rolled into a totalitarian state, not over our dead cold bodies.
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Male 794
i can see there are some serious debates going on here, but i still could not stop laughing at the first RED text line that states "LOW BLOW: ONE MANS FIGHT WITH PROSTATE CANCER" now that is a play on words my friends, that person deserves a medal and a gun permit, just to keep all of you debaters happy
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Male 15,832
"Ollie, without meaning to insult your friend, and forgive me if I do, but most people don`t become the victim of an execution-style killing. Was he involved with dangerous people?"

He was an artisan jeweler. They kicked in his door, dragged him out of bed, tied him up, and ransacked his apartment. When they were finished, they shot him twice in the head with a .22.

If he had had a gun by his bedside, he could have defended himself, but he never believed he would need one -- sort of like you, I guess.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"Did I also mention that the crime rate numbers are bogus in the UK too?"

Again, your point? You`d rather lives be lost than property be lost?

I`m not going to arm myself and risk deadly confrontation to protect my wallet or my television, for pity`s sake. And crossing the street or getting on my motorcycle present FAR more likely risks to my life than any hypothetical Hannibal Lecter breaking into my house to kill me.

And to want to increase a likely risk (accidental gun death, or gun suicide, or gun grabbed during a domestic quarrel) in order to counter an unlikely risk is just plain lunacy.

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Male 2,850
"Yes, its better to lose possessions than ones life. But some criminals would kill you even after you give them what they want...you showed weakness."

"Some" being the operative word. And that "some" being a very small "some". A tiny percentage. And you counter that tiny threat by escalating any confrontation with the non-murder-happy criminals into a confrontation involving deadly force.

A non-proportional reaction to a threat smacks of paranoia.

You`re in your 40s; have YOU ever saved your own life with a gun?

Come on, surely SOMEBODY has.
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Male 265
Criminals only respond to strength - power. If you aren`t stonrger or mnore powerful than them, you are prey.

Yes, its better to lose possessions than ones life. But some criminals would kill you even after you give them what they want...you showed weakness. Resistance, through strength deters them.
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Male 2,850
"Are you implying that since neither has a first hand account of how a handgun saved their lives, then there isn`t a reason for the average person to carry a firearm?"

I`m not saying there never is a reason (as Ollie`s account of his friends prove). I`m saying, though, that people seem to overinflate the risk they face for some other agenda; the risk for most people of someone trying to kill you is vanishingly small, and preparing so fervently with a weapon against such a possibility seems excessive.

Especially when that weapon would then get used to defend property (Ollie`s friend`s carjacking), rather than lives. Then you`re involving lethal force in the defence of possessions. If someone wants to steal from you, are you really going to risk your life over STUFF?

Ollie, without meaning to insult your friend, and forgive me if I do, but most people don`t become the victim of an execution-style killing. Was he involved with dangerous people?
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Male 15,832
"...have you found yourself in a situation where your life was saved by your gun in a split-second situation?"

Actually, no, and I hope I never do.

I had a close friend who stopped a carjacker by sticking a .38 in his face when he opened the door. I had another friend who didn`t keep a gun and was murdered execution-style in his apartment.

So, here`s another cliché (which, by the way, would never have gotten to be a chiché in the first place if it weren`t true):

Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
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Male 527
Musuko, I`m failing to see your point in your questioning auburnjunky and oldollie. Are you implying that since neither has a first hand account of how a handgun saved their lives, then there isn`t a reason for the average person to carry a firearm? If so, then you need a much larger statistical sample before you can make such a statement.
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Male 10,339

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Male 73
I was just at the gun range yesterday planning for this exact situation.

good riddance... his facebook said he was part of the New Jersey Crips and shows him throwing up gang signs... good riddance as far as I`m concerned.
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Male 17,512
Musuko42: Did I also mention that the crime rate numbers are bogus in the UK too ? Seems they`ve been intentionally lowered so that the police look as though they are preventing crime.

Secret papers reaveal crime rate fiddle
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Male 798
Ima go out on a limb here and say that criminals, who are the ones usually doing the murderin`, will find a way to get guns whether or not they are banned. Hence the whole "criminal" thing. :p
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Male 2,850
@auburnjunky

Has anyone ever been in your house threatening your family?
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Male 10,339
Well said mattprince. I couldn`t agree more.

If he does look shifty, and he is in my house, threatening my family.

SHOOT THE BASTARD!...

...and don`t say I`m a wuss for shooting him, `cause if, for some weird reason I didn`t have my gun, I`d beat his ass! lol.
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Male 2,850
@sl212

That`s a really interesting point! If we could see figures gun deaths AND gun injuries, what you describe might be observable; it could very well be possible that gun violence hasn`t gone down, but it has become more survivable as medical treatment gets better.

Ooooooh, and that puts the debate right into "healthcare reform" territory. Best we steer clear. :P
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Female 28
This may be me being ignorant, but I`m sure everything I read in the article was strictly referring to gun homicides and didn`t include people who`ve been shot but weren`t killed. What if the results just mean that the healthcare system is becoming more efficient?
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Male 2,220
Hail to the king, baby!
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Male 2,850
"Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

Ugh, this again.

Okay, here`s a fair opportunity; your profile says you`re in your 50s, so that gives you five decades of experience. In that time, have you found yourself in a situation where your life was saved by your gun in a split-second situation?

Seriously, without any snark; because I have yet to have anyone describe to me a real personal account where they have used a gun to save their lives.
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Male 14,330
But but but bujeezabus said so....

He said thou shall carry boomstickith so when zombie hords infest the earth thou can kick ass like bujeezabus and send them from wenst they came. The lord also recommends considering a chainsaw appendage.
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Male 2,220
You said - "this number also reflects the large number of would be murderers, thieves, psychos, wife beaters, and thugs that got blasted by a citizen defending himself. "

I read "he looks shifty, shoot the f*ck!"
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Male 1,106
Great job at trying to spin this MSNBC, but at the very least, the data shows that gun crime does not increase with more concealed weapons permits. You can explain away the decrease in crime, but you can`t explain away the lack of an increase in gun-related crime.
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Male 15,832
"USA - constitutional right to bear arms. 11.66 gun-related deaths per 100,000. Spot the pattern yet?"

I believe I do. According to your logic:

Violent criminal shot to death by innocent citizen = bad

Innocent citizen stabbed to death by violent criminal = good

Does that about sum it up?

Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
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Male 268
Look are Constitution Gives the right to bear arms and to protect our property and that is enough for me to go buy my pistol to defend myself, especaily since the morons in my township would not vote to keep the same police force we had so we have like ten cops for a 24 hour shift and the morons want 8 officers during the day so the can feel safe while they are at work then bitch at night when they call the police and are told it will 45 minutes to forever to get an officer out to them because there is not one officer in the township
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Male 197
Those stats are great and all but there are a lot of countries that have much stricter gun control laws and have far fewer murders. To say that people owning more guns is why the murder rate is going down in the United States is like saying that global warming is happening because there are less pirates. While true that the murder rate is going down and gun ownership is increasing there are several other factors likely at play which should be considered.
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Male 2,850
"When citizens ever vote on that? I thought it was just made law by politicians."

We vote for the politicians, who then speak for us (ideally, obviously).

If we overwhelmingly wanted guns to defend ourselves, you would expect that a pro-gun government will be voted into power.

And we DON`T want guns in our culture. In living memory in this country there has never been a popular demand for them.

Because we look across at what happens in America and say "no, we don`t want that".

Because it`s telling, isn`t it, that the most recent gun massacre in the UK was 13 years ago. Your most recent one was last year.
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Male 549
you commie liberals won`t like this video so don`t even watch it. that goes for you euro trashtypes also

ted nugent on gun control
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

"According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997"

A 40% rise on figures that figures in the 10s is not panic-worthy. In 2007, only 51 people in all of England, Scotland and Wales were killed by guns. 51. Out of a population of 60 million.
In the US, the number is in the thousands (and your population is only five times higher than ours, not hundreds of times higher), and you KNOW this.

"You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States"

I would much prefer to be robbed than to be shot. Property can be replaced. Lives cannot.

So I`ll happily take our higher crime rate (if that`s even accurate), thank you, over your Virginia Techs and your Columbines, thank you.

Fewer people have been killed by guns in the UK since the Dunblane massacre than have been killed in a single year (pick one, any one
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Male 549
USA - constitutional right to bear arms. 11.66 gun-related deaths per 100,000.

this number also reflects the large number of would be murderers, thieves, psychos, wife beaters, and thugs that got blasted by a citizen defending himself.

dont post numbers without thinking about what it is you are posting. Americans own guns, Americans will kill you if you threaten their family`s safety.

like the old saying goes "I`d rather own a gun and not need it then need one and not have it"
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Male 14,330
[quote]Neyro; Guns for show, knives for a pro![/quote]
Let me know how that thought process works out for ya....
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Male 14,330
Wow I submitted this ages ago.

@almightybob1

Hmmm you left Sweden out why would that be.

@Musuko42

When citizens ever vote on that? I thought it was just made law by politicians.
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Male 17,512
Musuko42:

England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997

In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.

"You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America`s."

The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.



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Male 265
We may need the guns to overthrow the democrats if the next election cycle doesn`t pan out.
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Female 1,283
Article
"found no credible evidence that passage of right-to-carry laws increases or decreases violent crime"

I refute your logic with Sweden, and Israel, and that other place near Russia that promotes you to buy silencers.
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Male 2,850
@CrakrJak

Where does it end? Wherever you choose it to end. You control your government after all, with your democracy.

Britain doesn`t have guns because we chose that restriction. If we didn`t want that restriction, we`d vote for a party that`ll have it removed.

Oh but wait, you DON`T control your government; a centuries-old document written by long-dead people controls your government.
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Male 2,850
"when they banned guns in Britain crime sky rocketed"

*sigh* This drivel again?

It`s not even worth debating you any more. You`ll never come up with a source for this claimed sky-rocketing crime rate. Nor this baffling claim that criminals are committing crimes just because people are not using guns to defend themselves (something, by the way, that wasn`t legal or common even before the handgun ban following the Dunblane massacre).

Whoops...almost let myself debate you there.

In any case, you don`t have an argument to debate. Just a weary old soundbite.

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Male 17,512
66stang: Exactly. Banning guns is as stupid as banning cars because cars kill people too. Let`s ban Twinkies because of heart attacks. Let`s ban Soda because of diabetes. Where does it end ?

The more things they ban, The more rights they take away, And the more they take control over our lives.
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Male 225
when they banned guns in Britain crime sky rocketed. When criminals were asked why they commited their crimes they said it was because there were no more gun toting people. In addition making guns illegal only takes them out of law abiding citiczens hands, the majority of criminals don`t obtain their guns legally.
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Female 447
LOL lionhart2... sooo true. The news here in baltimore was just boasting how we have the lowest murder rate so far. It`s only April! And we were snowed in for 2 weeks. I`m pretty sure summer will bring loads of murders. On the other hand my brother lives in colorado springs and they are allowed to shoot and kill home intruders and it is so nice and peaceful there. I guess it all depends on who is holding the gun.
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Male 2,050
Proud to be an American.
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Male 774
Reminds me of a Fall Out Boy song...

I blame Glenn Beck for this fear uprising.
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Male 2,436
An armed society is a polite society.
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Male 378
haha i just watched Michael Moore`s film on guns
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Male 8,302
In totally unrelated News: US has Far Higher Murder Rate Than Countries Where Guns Are Banned, Cause Unknown
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Male 798
Betcha the majority of those gun deaths aren`t from people who own guns legally and responsibly. ;)
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Male 712
"USA - constitutional right to bear arms. 11.66 gun-related deaths per 100,000.


Spot the pattern yet?"

Yep, I certainly do. Pattern turns out that people will die from a "gun-related" death anyway.

Biggest difference is, in this country, according to the Declaration of Independence and backed up by the Constitution, I have the right to defend myself to the point of contributing to that statistic before I become a part of it.

Seeing that I have a right to do so, I will do it every single time.

Personally, I think that pattern is pretty nicely put together.
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Male 17,512
almightybob1:

I noticed the "gun related deaths" thing you posted.

You do know they counted the criminals that got killed trying to rob people in that statistic right ? Oh you didn`t ?

Gun related deaths per capita does not equal crime rate. There are an estimated 2.5 million DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) per year, Most without a shot being fired. Crime rates for murder, rape and robbery drop six to ten percent, and are sustained at reduced rates, when and where law-abiding adult citizens are permitted to carry concealed firearms. Kennesaw, Georgia had an ordinance requiring every resident to keep at least one firearm in the home. As a result, the home burglary rate in Kennesaw fell by over 80%

Switzerland, which actually issues military firearms and ammunition to be kept in the home. Possession of pistols and semi-automatic firearms by civilians is only modestly regulated. The resulting crime rate is lower than that of the UK.
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Male 351
@almightybob1: Of course culture plays no role at all. Or the fact that an island is far easier to control arms than a non-island nation.

/facepalm
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Male 11
vv the pattern is that those countries all have traditionally low violence rates due to the social standard.
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Male 4,290
"Take our guns away, and watch the number (of gun deaths) rise again. Go on. I dare ya."

Sigh.
Countries by gun-related death rate per capita.

Japan - very strict gun control, hardly any allowed. 0.07 gun deaths per 100,000 people.
South Korea - nobody other than military can have guns. 0.13 per 100,000.
UK - very strict gun control, no handguns whatsoever. 0.38 - 1.21 per 100,000.
Netherlands - fairly strict gun control, very few guns owned. 0.70 per 100,000.
Italy - moderate gun law. 2.95 per 100,000.
Austria - any citizen has the right to buy a gun. 4.56 per 100,000.
France - handguns permitted in population. 6.35 per 100,000.

USA - constitutional right to bear arms. 11.66 gun-related deaths per 100,000.


Spot the pattern yet?
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Male 11
@madest
I agree, its just that instances like VTech are very rare compared to murders commited with illegal firearms.
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Male 7,378
My point was registered firearms. Of course people who commit murder are criminals. Guns make weak people strong and the crazy insane.
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Male 11
@ madest
Virgina Tech is a "no-gun zone". If some of the responsible students or teachers would have been carrying, there might have been much fewer deaths. By making it a "no-gun zone", you insure that only those breaking that rule have guns.
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Male 4,290
[quote]I hear you have to show ID to buy kitchen cutlery over across the pond? Poor brits :([/quote]

If by cutlery you mean this:


Then no.
If by cutlery you mean this:


Then yes. Why would a child need one of them?
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Male 7,378
v You don`t really believe these blanket statements you make do you? There`s many killings by individuals with registered guns including Seung-Hui Cho, the VA massacre killer. v
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Male 617
duh. people who kill with guns arent going to register that gun.
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Male 25,416
US and guns, didnt think this was news!
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Male 351
@BrimstoneOne: Exactly. Guns that are used in gun violence are most often illegally imported. Having stricter gun control does not prevent any of this.
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Male 2,229
As for the article, it made no sense considering that it tried (and failed) to reconcile multiple view points on gun control.
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Male 2,229
The gun crimes that occur here in Canada, are for the most part are illegally imported (smuggled) American hand guns. To legally get a license for any gun that`s no restricted take anywhere from 10 to 18 months.
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Male 351
@tenty: Really? I have never heard that claim made.
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Male 425
Everytime you suggest banning guns in America you always get told a sort of Mad max scenario and that guns are for protection and without them bandits will take control of the country.....
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Male 177
Angelmassb
Male, 18-29, S. America
Sunday, April 11, 2010 12:28:34 PM

Killing each other is FUN!

Considering they hack people apart with machetes in your neck of the woods, you really have no place to talk.

http://www.thebackpacker.net/travel-guide/travel-stories/brazil/185/
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Male 15,510
Killing each other is FUN!
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Male 606
Okay, I`m not even gonna check:

Is there a raging debate over gun control going on in here?
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Male 15,832
"Because the gun death rates parallel an overall drop in crime, Hemenway suspects that the decline `has nothing to do with concealed-carry laws.`"

So, how does he explain the "overall drop in crime?" He doesn`t. He assumes there is no cause for the overall drop in crime, and that the drop in crime is in turn the cause for the decrease in gun deaths. Logic is like people; it can be tortured to say anything you want it to.

Here`s some more BS:

"Hemenway said valid studies of the effects of more concealed weapons permits on firearms deaths could only be obtained by studying shooting deaths that involved concealed-carry permit holders." That`s like saying that police only prevent crime when they shoot criminals. Ever heard of "deterrence?"

This argument was settled 10 years ago by John Lott. The results published in his book More Guns, Less Crime.
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Male 15,832
You can get more information from John Lott`s website, http://www.johnlott.org/
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Male 177
This is a corelational study. If any of you have attended a halfway decent college at any point in your life, you would know that corelational studies do not in any way prove causality. Using this information you could just as well logically infer that more people are getting concealed carry permits because gun deaths are decreasing. THAT BEING SAID I am actually a gun supporter, simply because the average person is a rational, reasonable, and logical being, and generally does not burst into bouts of mass homicide or decide that a child trespassing on their property is just cause for lethal force. The best part is if enough people are armed and someone DOES decide to go bat poo loco at a mall it won`t last long cause he`ll be dead within a New York minute.
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Male 478
This is MSNBC. Did anyone REALLY expect a pro-firearms article?
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Female 472
One of my neighbors just got semi-robbed last week.(I`ll explain)
He was in the parking lot of our apartment building and someone came up and said "give me your money" so my neighbor handed over his money, then pulled out his gun.(He`s got a concealed carry license) Thug trying to steal the money dropped the money and ran.

Just some food for thought.

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Male 5,314
AMERICA F*CK YEAH! GUNS F*CK YEAH!
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Male 518
Video games are more prevalent, does that mean that they are causing violence? Those are two variables that are impossible to relate to eachother.

sensationalism fail
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Male 351
For crime and gun violence to go down the laws must be far less restrictive. I know absolutely no one personally that has a license to carry. It can`t act as a deterrent if the numbers of people are still relatively low. Now if crime rates were compared based upon location and how many people in those areas owned firearms, I am sure a relation could easily be found.

Not only is the right to bear arms important for this reason, but also because it is a way to prevent tyranny. Dictators always remove the right to bear arms as to prevent their power from being compromised. Requiring a gun to be licensed in the name of crime fighting only makes it easier for the government to know who has a gun and where these people are for easy confiscation.
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Female 857
Neyro; Guns for show, knives for a pro!
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Male 189
lol, you Americans and your guns.

We have a good thing going here in Oz, but you never know I guess.

You can never tell when the King of England might come into your house and get all up in your face.
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Male 124
Only in the US are guns such an integral part of life. For some it`s for protection others...a fashion accessory.
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Male 149
`basic rights`

Bwahaha. I don`t think we mind too much really. Go on, shoot yourselves ;)

Gun crime is a LOT rarer over here (8% of deaths vs 65%). As for showing ID, yes, we don`t let children buy meat cleavers and big choppers. What`s wrong with that?
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Male 26
Crime rates, and homicides, track the economy.. not gun laws. Notice the rise since 2004, which is completely unexplained by the article.. as it would destroy the lie they are trying to sneak past the uninformed.
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Male 148
inb4 a bunch of brits come in and try to rationlize having basic rights taken away, I keed I keed :D

I hear you have to show ID to buy kitchen cutlery over across the pond? Poor brits :(
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Male 591
What I didnt like about the article, was that in trying to be unbiased, they were still showing their leaning towards anti-gun as much as they could.

>said Corley, 61, unemotionally, in the gravelly voice of a three-pack-a-day smoker. < for the person that killed the robber, was unneeded, and no reason to tell people that. Makes that person sound like a cold-blooded killer.
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Male 4,547
Seems like only Skypirate has read the article.

The article basically says there is no statistical link to firearms and crime in either direction.

This is not an argument for anyone`s case.
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Male 2,545
"For a more meaningful comparison you need to compare violent crime in America with levels in countries where there are fewer weapons which are much harder to obtain. "

correlation does not equal causation...thats the whole point of the article....
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Male 2,796
Hopefully these anti gun lunatics will take notice that with responsible citizens holding guns, things like Colombine probably never would have happened.
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Male 509
"To say that more people having weapons equals less crime is absolute nonsense"

You`d think that, wouldn`t you? But the evidence says otherwise.

Unless it has no effect and the deaths are dropping for some other reason...

And I`ve never shot any gun other than air rifles/pistols and ONE 12 gauge shotgun when I was clay pidgeon shooting (hated the kickback). I might be able to handle a pistol though...
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Male 959
For a more meaningful comparison you need to compare violent crime in America with levels in countries where there are fewer weapons which are much harder to obtain.

To say that more people having weapons equals less crime is absolute nonsense
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Male 146
InB4 poostorm

I really don`t get carrying guns around. Then again I`m Canadian.
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Male 1,505
"No. It means that criminals are realizing that they are more likely to get their ass shot because more civilians carry guns."

^This. Only law abiding citizens pay attention to gun laws, so quit making gun laws that tie the hands of law-abiding citizens.
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Male 10,339
"Because the gun death rates parallel an overall drop in crime, Hemenway suspects that the decline “has nothing to do with concealed-carry laws.”"

No. It means that criminals are realizing that they are more likely to get their ass shot because more civilians carry guns.

Take our guns away, and watch the number rise again. Go on. I dare ya.
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Male 14,330
Link: Record Numbers In US Carry Firearms [Rate Link] - Take a look at what studies show has happen to the crime rate.
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