Collateral Damage [WARNING: Actual War Footage]

Submitted by: eskimo9 7 years ago in

Is this why the soldiers aren"t home yet? [A little longer than most I-A-B videos, but worth the watch.]
There are 443 comments:
Male 190
Why is it we can have HD 1080p pictures at home.. some even in 3D now but the soldiers can only see this grainy image?!?!?

It`s because it detaches them from the killing they are doing. It is hard to get people to kill others, especially when innocents can be hurt. The lack of clear image allows the soldiers to kill without regret.... As if it weren`t real!
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Male 4,546
Hmm... Splurby.

1) The site posts links which get hits and ratings. (Have a look at the post count and the rating for this link). That is why it is here.

2) I`ve been a mod almost 2 weeks I think depending on when you start counting (I`ve been a mod in the chatroom for 3 weeks).

3) You can ask fancy (or any of the mods I guess) to close your account for you.

1 + 2 + 3) I hope 2 and 3 are less related than 1 and 3..... I knew me being modded would bug a couple of people, I didn`t think people would leave though, and I certainly didn`t think people would ask all references to their existence be deleted over it.
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Male 4,290
Even if two or three out of eight were carrying AKs and RPGs (and seriously, who can`t differentiate between an RPG and a camera?), I doubt the RoEs allow them to mow down everyone in the group. And there`s no way they should have engaged the van, there was no sign of any weapons whatsoever.

I was under the impression that Apache cameras could zoom in and read your credit card from a kilometre away. If they`re not even good enough to differentiate between a camera and an RPG, they shouldn`t be firing based on judgements from such poor equipment.
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Female 24
Splurbyburbl, Yes. I-A-B has become a radical, left wing propaganda machine. The daily funny pictures and toilet humor should have tipped you off sooner. Odd the I-A-B would have a video that almost every other site has displayed. Big conspiracy there, eh?

You can`t handle people questioning? Don`t let the door hit you on the way out.
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Male 134
splurbyburbl Protocol wasn`t enough. This is the result.
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Male 2,796
They followed standard warzone protocol... good for them. Since when did this sight become a propaganda sight? Oh, and when did Baal become a moderator?? Also, how can I delete my drating profile?
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Male 4,546
Erm, Auburn:

"Are you aware the top 10% of earners in the U.S. pay over 60% of the federal income taxes? This is not right. Everyone should be paying the same PERCENTAGE."

Everything about that statement just shows you don`t understand the statistic you`re quoting.
The top 10% pay 60% of the total taxes. (I`ll assume this is true).
You`re totally neglecting: The top 10% earn 83% of the total income.

If everyone paid taxes equivalent to their wealth, the top 10% should be paying 83% of the nation`s taxes. Not 60%. You`re correct in that it`s currently not fair, however, the direction in which it is not fair is opposite to what you are suggesting.

Your wealth distribution, much like your healthcare, sucks in the US more than anywhere else: Source.
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Male 78
So... I count 14/15 murders. Anyone else?
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Male 7,378
This tape is disturbing. I`m ashamed of the actions of the military representing my country. Anybody who can defend the cavalier attitude of these murderous soldiers is part of the problem.
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Male 893
@DeathsAngel
I never needed the army. Not once in my life. Even if I did need them then I would have just payed for the service myself. If it wasn`t for the army spending money on this pointless war, I myself would have had more money to give to Toys for Tots.

Soldiers get paid to help out after a natural disaster with our tax payer`s dollars. So stop thinking that you`re on some high horse just because you help others and get paid for it.
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Female 404
Treating real lives like a game, just sad.
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Female 85
@samenamegame
It`s surprisingly easy to become a US Army helicopter pilot. What`s not easy is the training.
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Female 85
Being a US Soldier doesn`t make me for or against the war. That`s a personal belief. What it does make it, is my job. Think what you will of Soldiers and the job we do, the job a lot of you trolls wouldn`t be man enough to do, but its not just the US Army fighting this fight and its not just the US Army that invades countries. But thankfully we do our job without question and without regards to what the American population thinks of us. Which is humorous considering that Americans just like yourself AnarchistGod hate us, right up until the point that they need us. Believe it or not, Soldiers do provide for the American population. We`re typically the first ones called in for natural disasters and usually the last ones out. And I`m not a huge history buff, but please let me know if the Nazi party had any philanthropist organization like Toys of Tots, which is run by the US Marine Corps Reserve and has been for the last 62 years, and which the beneficiaries are American children.
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Male 893
@DeathsAngel (cont)
And for the record American soldiers are NOT protecting this country. They are endangering it by trying to police the world.
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Male 893
@CrakrJak
Even if it’s just pennies it’s STILL theft.

@eskimo9
Charity can help the poor. People will have more money to give when they’re not taxed and when unemployment is very when you get rid of minimum wage.

@auburnjunky
You haven’t made any argument against what I have said. You just called me a troll. It is you who is the troll.

@Davymid
You haven’t answered my question about democracy. (not that you have to)

@DeathsAngel
I repeat myself. American soldiers like you are the scum of the Earth. You’re worse than rapists because at least most rapists realize what they do is wrong. You American soldiers think that what they are doing is good and just. The American soldier is today`s modern day Nazi and it is how history will look back at people like you. Not only that but most American soldiers are funded though taxation. That makes them thefts as well. And for the record American soldiers are
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Male 877
DavidXJ
Male, 30-39, Western US

You sir are Ga Ga!!!...I have never the invasion `not war` of iraq put so nievely...you must be an avid fan of fox news...your government invaded iraq for the resource of oil which in case you havent heard is running out, US military bases will always be in iraq at the behest of the next puppet government installed there selling cheap oil to the west...hark!, is that the doorbell...run david, run....the toothfairy has arrived to spread good cheer and sprinkle fairy dust over dewdrops and daffodils...
im sure youre not actually in your 30ies?...least i hope not...

as.eirinn
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Male 877
DavidXJ
Male, 30-39, Western US
295 Posts Thursday, April 8, 2010 3:43:59 PM
IshiiDaFishy... our military makes more of an effort to keep civilian casualties to a minimum than any military in the history of the world. We don`t ever want to kill innocent civilians. We don`t enjoy war and the only thing we want for Iraq is that they have a peaceful government with a peaceful population who won`t keep trying to blow us up. If the insurgents would quit trying to kill both Iraqi civilians and US soldiers, we would have been gone 5 years ago. But they keep killing so we keep trying to defend the new government and the innocent people.

Unfortunately, during a war you will make deadly mistakes, and for that we apologize profusely. Hate us all you want, but our civilian casualties are NEVER intentional, whereas, the people we are fighting kill civilians intentionally every single day. But you don`t flame them... no... we are the evil ones.

You sir are Ga Ga!!!
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Male 170
Good job americans!

You cold-blooded basterds are doing a fine job out there!! :D

Whatever though, the rest of the world sees you like this anyway.
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Female 11
I HATE AMERICANS.
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Male 12,138
I believe Madest just got served by the 101st Airborne...

Ouch.
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Female 131
god, i want to be a helicopter pilot so badly.
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Male 1,106
IshiiDaFishy... our military makes more of an effort to keep civilian casualties to a minimum than any military in the history of the world. We don`t ever want to kill innocent civilians. We don`t enjoy war and the only thing we want for Iraq is that they have a peaceful government with a peaceful population who won`t keep trying to blow us up. If the insurgents would quit trying to kill both Iraqi civilians and US soldiers, we would have been gone 5 years ago. But they keep killing so we keep trying to defend the new government and the innocent people.

Unfortunately, during a war you will make deadly mistakes, and for that we apologize profusely. Hate us all you want, but our civilian casualties are NEVER intentional, whereas, the people we are fighting kill civilians intentionally every single day. But you don`t flame them... no... we are the evil ones.
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Male 40,734
Ignore him DeathsAngel, he really is just a troll.
And personally speaking, I love a gal in a uniform! :)
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Male 773
Its things like this that makes the rest of the world hate you Americans. You keep killin their families dude.
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Female 85
Oh and that`s me btw

<<<
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Female 85
Well madest, since you`re so curious about me, try this info on for size. I`m 21, been in the Army for 3 years as of May 10, the technical term for my job is UH60 Blackhawk Crewchief, I`ve got over 250 flight hours and have been stationed in Korea and currently at Fort Campbell. I`m with 7th Battalion, 101st Avn Regt also known as Eagle Lift. And if you still think I`m lying, then you really are paranoid as Altrau suggests and should seek medical help.
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Male 582
The soldiers did the logical thing in a war zone. Period.
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Male 10,338
No they didn`t ElDavo.
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Male 2,148
Rob: It`s not that it happens, it`s that the American government lies about it.
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Male 3,482
"I think she`s fulla it. Good day gullible one."

Oh, really? So someone who`s been here for FIVE YEARS, hasn`t posted any content, hasn`t changed her profile, and has only 64 forum posts in her count lied about her age to join a site that`s supposed to be for 13 and up.

If she was honest (which, I generally try to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially in this case since what benefit is there to gain from lying about something like that?), then that would make her AT LEAST 18, and probably older since most people here didn`t join on their 13th birthday.

No, what it boils down to, here, is that I`m someone who looks deeper into things, tries to trust people, and ten forms an opinion.

YOU, on the other hand, are a paranoid moron who only sees what he wants to see, when he wants to see it.

Now, I`m leaving. Madest has just become a royal pain in the ass and this thread`s almost off the front page.
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Male 7,378
Reagan raised taxes.
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Male 10,338
@madest:

"Why is it the white trash who don`t have a pot to piss in care so much?"

I`m sorry wha?
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Male 10,338
@Madest:

"You`ve found a way to defend the republicans dispicable record with our economy."

I`ll defend Reagan`s record on the economy all day long.

It was HIS policies that caused the surplus of the 90`s. Clinton pissed that away though.
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Male 2,528
If there is anyone out there who doesn`t think this type of crap happens during pretty much ANY war, then I am sad to say that you are extremely naive.
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Male 7,378
No I was talking tou you Altaru. You can`t ignore me. You bit my head off for questioning the authenticity of DeathsAngel. You believe her every word of being a Blackhawk machine gunner. I think she`s fulla it. Good day gullible one.
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Male 3,482
"I think he was talking to me altaru."

Either way, my post holds true, in that he is STILL nothing but an idiot and a troll, and I`m going to continue to ignore him.
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Male 7,378
No thanks. You`ve found a way to defend the republicans dispicable record with our economy. I don`t giva $hit if Bill Gates gets a tax break and I`m sure he doesn`t either. Why is it the white trash who don`t have a pot to piss in care so much?
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Male 10,338
I think he was talking to me altaru.
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Male 10,338
@madest:

"The one the gives a trillion dollar tax break to the top 10% of earners?"

Are you aware the top 10% of earners in the U.S. pay over 60% of the federal income taxes? This is not right. Everyone should be paying the same PERCENTAGE.

OR

We could do away with the federal income tax altogether, and have a fair tax. 8-15% on all non-essential goods sold. (food, water, electricity exempt). It would generate more money than the income tax, and everyone would take home more money.

Ron Paul supports a version of this, but all his version would do, is add the tax like I suggested, but not do away with the income tax, or the IRS. That would make everyone broke.

Listen to Neal Boortz sometime. He has alot of good info on the fair tax movement.
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Male 3,482
"So what`s your arguement? That I`m an idiot? If it weren`t for gullible Americans like you there`d be no Iraq war videos here to debate."

Jesus

f*cking

christ...

Now, you ARE nothing but a troll. You haven`t read my previous posts, have you? I`m not for this war, haven`t been for quite a while, and if you knew ANYTHING about me, you`d know that I want to GTFO of this country as soon as I can.

If you think I`m a gullible American, then you`re nothing but the stereotypical ignorant troll.

Have fun, I`m officially going to start ignoring your meaningless and retarded posts.
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Male 7,378
@AJ, I was a Ron Paul supporter too. What conservative government do you speak of? The one that drags us into a war based upon lies? The one the gives a trillion dollar tax break to the top 10% of earners? That conservative government? They`re the ones that drove the world economy off a cliff.
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Male 10,338
@madest:

Also, a conservative government is cheaper than a liberal government. Do you know the definitions of conservative and liberal?

We are getting off topic badly. Sorry mods. I can`t ignore trolls lol.
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Male 10,338
@madest:

"The larger point I was making which you seem adept at avoiding is the imperialistic police state you dream of is too costly for lower taxes."

Actually, if the government was run AS THE CONSTITUTION IMPLIES, the federal government would cost next to nothing. Bush ran up a huge tab in office, with congress` bailout package, and his prescription bill. Obama is adding to the deficit, with his bailouts and healthcare. Now he is going to add taxes across the board. If we abolish the income tax, and add a comsumption tax to all goods of 15%, even if we don`t cut one program, or lower our spending one dime, we will have a yearly budget surplus of 4 TRILLION dollars! Conservatives and Tea Partyers want to do this.

"If it weren`t for gullible Americans like you"

Your profile says you are from America as well. Hi pot, I`m kettle.
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Male 66
whats happened is sad, but as its been said, its war..your military and ours do not need criticizing for doing what they are doing...in war people die.
"war does not decide who is right...only those that are left"
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Male 7,378
Yes the world should to bend to your sensitivities. Doubt you ever complained about marrige of two companies but I digress. The larger point I was making which you seem adept at avoiding is the imperialistic police state you dream of is too costly for lower taxes.
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Male 17,511
madest: Making stupid assumptions again eh ?
Par for the course with you.

I`m for finding and killing Bin Laden, After that We need to get out of there (Unless Iran does something stupid like bomb Israel).

Of course narcotic drugs should be illegal, Do you want to end up in a world of heroin addicted pre-teens ? Not me.

I only object to the usage of the of the word `Marriage` to a same sex union, Civil Unions have the same legal effect. I just don`t want the word corrupted. Words mean things and Marriage is 1 Man + 1 Woman has been so for thousands of years and should remain so.
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Female 60
Alright, I`m not exactly behind all the stuff that`s gone on over there, but seriously, people. It`s war. It isn`t supposed to be pretty, and if it were, people would go to war all the time. Do you really think that those reporters were over there without knowing the risks? I`m sorry they died, and that`s a terrible thing for a family to have to deal with, but they behaved dumbly. Don`t mess around in a military zone with people with guns who aren`t your own soldiers. You tend to look like one of them. The mistake that these soldiers made was sad, and their decision to fire seems rash, but it was an easy one to make, and we don`t know all of the circumstances. So many people see this kind of thing and then start crying out that we shouldn`t trust the government, question them and think for ourselves. But they forget to question things so quickly when they see something that supports what they think they already know.
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Male 7,378
So what`s your arguement? That I`m an idiot? If it weren`t for gullible Americans like you there`d be no Iraq war videos here to debate.
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Male 10,338
They are Bill Maher and Michael Moore.
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Male 10,338
They weren`t valid in the first place Altaru. Madest and Anarchistgod are the resident IAB trolls. They just like to be inflamatory regardless of what they believe. Whatever the majority is saying, they are the opposite.
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Male 3,482
"@DeathsAngel, You need to be 18 to join the military. Nice try on serving yourself up as IAB`s resident badass though."

You, sir, are making a total ASS of yourself with this post.

In the IAB profile, you have to actively switch yourself between age groups. I turned 18 in March, but I was still between 13-17 until I switched myself to 18-29.

It`s entirely possible that she was a member before she turned 18, and just hasn`t changed her age group. She joined in March 2005, after all, which means it`s been 5 years.

Seriously... You`re just making yourself look like an idiot by saying stupid sh*t like this, and in turn making your arguments seem less and less valid.
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Male 112
@DeathsAngel

please explain to me how u killing people in Iraq is protecting my freedom? if anything you are protecting the freedom of foreigners over your own people.
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Male 2,690
This is horrible.
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Male 100
@DeathsAngel
"Thanks for reminding me that if it weren`t for myself and thousands others like me, you`d have already been killed by the government for saying what you`re saying."

And if one day the government does decide to kill us for speaking out against them I`m sure they will send people just like you and the murderers in this video to do it. Why? Because they will follow orders blindly and most likely get off on it. This video makes me sad for their families.
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Male 39,893
To all the people crying "boo hoo" at this video. I`m curious... what did you think happens in war?

did you think we showed up with flowers and candy and politely asked them to surrender?

Did you think that if you are unarmed you would not be shot even though you are hanging out with guys carrying weapons?

Did you think we let them get away to kill later instead of shooting them even if their buddies did show up with a nice van to drive them away?

Get real. War is death.
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Male 21
If you ask me i think they were a little stingy with the bullets. There wouldve been none of those ragheads left if i was shootin.
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Male 500
@AGit, yup. yet criticise them in any way and you are either american-bashing or jealous and want to live in the USA (no thanks). I travel there a lot to meet Scientists over there, and they are not all jingoistic murderous xenophobic morons, (in fact all of the many american scientists I know are atheists and gentle humanitarians, who always raise the particularly painful subject of intelligent design and destroying other countries for oil to run their SUVs on during conferences, proving that lack of nationalism, xenophobia violence and religion, the mainstay of the average yank, truly are linked to intelligence and education).
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Male 995
This was murder, simply.
And some justifications posted here are very disturbing indeed
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Male 7,378
@DeathsAngel, You need to be 18 to join the military. Nice try on serving yourself up as IAB`s resident badass though.
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Male 10
How the hell removing bodies from streets is a excuse to engage shooting?
That`s just drated up! Keep giving them support...
That why they hate USA...
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Female 85
Actually maddog, as someone who spends hours on end listening to radio calls just like the ones in the footage, they were fairly accurate. There`s only minor parts that weren`t interpreted wrong.

And to AnarchistGod, I want to thank for you proving exactly why people like me exist and why I have a job. Despite the fact that my job is to sit behind the trigger of a M240H machine gun on a UH60 Blackhawk, my true purpose in the United States Army, is to protect idiots like yourself and your right to spout off bullsh*t. Thanks for reminding me that if it weren`t for myself and thousands others like me, you`d have already been killed by the government for saying what you`re saying.
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Male 703
@Anarchist: suppose a democratic country converts to anarchy. Everyone works for themselves, keeps their own earnings, trade is free among all people (ideally). Is there a united organisation which provides health to people who can`t get to a doctor? or do doctors have the right to refuse care to a patient?

What if (when) dispute breaks out between two families, and their friends take sides, and their friends` friends... when does it stop?

Ideally, it would work, realistically, however, I am too cynical to see it happen.
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Male 7,378
"I do believe we are taxed way to much and that the government is far too intrusive in our lives"
------------------------
You`re for the war. You support keeping drugs illegal. You want the government to intrude on peoples live to such an extent that they can dictate who can marry whom. If we really lived in CrakrJak`s world we`d need to be taxed at a much higher rate.
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Male 10,338
That video is ridiculous. It would not work today.
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Male 17,511
[quote]ignore the fine then you will be arrested[/quote] Only in cases of fraud (Like Bernie Madoff) Have I heard of people getting arrested for not paying taxes. In most cases the IRS has even settled debts for pennies on the dollar so as not to oppress people. (I see ads for this on TV all the time)

I do believe we are taxed way to much and that the government is far too intrusive in our lives, But I still believe in our democratic representative republic.
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Male 893
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Male 17,511
"the pilots should not have fired upon Non-Combatants rendering medical assistance."

The van was not an ambulance, Nor were those people medical personnel. I didn`t see them take out a first aid kit or try to bandage the man`s wounds. Taking kids into a combat zone is stupid.

There were many people looting the dead and dying and stealing weapons/ammunition during that time.
It had become a cottage industry in Iraq and it was helping the insurgents.
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Male 893
[quote]But we don`t don`t throw people into `internment camps` (as that link you posted says) for not paying their taxes. Hell we have a treasury sec. right now that didn`t pay his![/quote]

Some people can get away with it. So what. If you don`t pay your taxes(have your wealth stolen), you will be fined, ignore the fine then you will be arrested (kidnapped), resist being arrested you will be killed.
Let the state rob you or they will kill you.

[quote]Democracy is not anti-minority, We have many laws in our country that protect minorities and even assist them through affirmative action.[/quote]
All democracy is anti-minority. If I vote against something and I`m a lose then I still have to abide by it. If a certain race is a minority and wants its rights protected then the majority have to allow it.

Already I`m going to bed now.
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Male 893
@Davymid
Correlation =/= causation

Countries do well because of free trade and not because the majority want to violently enforce their will on the minority.

We`re not in anarchy anymore because our species has done will for itself. So well that stupidity is allowed.

Please tell me Davy. Why do you defend such a barbaric concept as democracy? Why do we need a majority to violently enforce its will on the minority? Why can`t people just keep the fruits of their labor in its entirety? Why do you think that you need to violently enforce the a minority to feel compassion for the weak, the disadvantaged, the disabled, the very young, the very old, etc etc?
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Male 51
It was also taught, in every IMT(Individual Movement Techniques) exercise and CALFEX(Combined Arms Live Fire Exercise) that in an assault or ambush, you shoot the wounded as you advance through the kill zone. If you turn around and and come back to shoot them, you are killing the wounded! You are then guilty of war crimes and are liable to face Court Martial. Before those of you who never served or been in a war zone; if you take a moment and think about those scenarios, you will understand the distinction. Is it fair? Depends on which side of the weapon your on!

Finally, as a direct comment to Anarchist God: you are a pus bag, hand wringing, change jingling, no-load antagonist who gets your jollies from fermenting derision and angst. Why you haven`t been banned for these posting is beyond the pale!
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Male 17,511
AnarchistGod: I`m all for as little government as possible, Lower taxes, Fewer regulations, More competition, and I believe in capitalism with some constraints.

But we don`t don`t throw people into `internment camps` (as that link you posted says) for not paying their taxes. Hell we have a treasury sec. right now that didn`t pay his!

Democracy is not anti-minority, We have many laws in our country that protect minorities and even assist them through affirmative action.

Obama is one of those people that has benefited from affirmative action.



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Male 51
I will also say that for the most part wikileaks doesn`t understand half of what was being said during the engagement and have made gross and questionable interpertations to the footage. The purpose of which was to inflame and provoke negative viewpoints on the military! In other words, they should have enlisted the help of a prior service personnel to interept what actually happened! More specifically, they deliberately enhanced footage that would not have been physically available to the Apache Gunner during the engagement.

When I was on Active duty, it was always taught and understood, and believe me I recieved this briefing more times then I can count, that you can`t use a .50 cal as a direct fire weapon against the enemy. Suppressive fire yes, but not direct fire. Direct fire of a .50 cal could only be used against equipment. For those of you playing along at home, the 30mm Gatlin Gun on an Apache is over double the size of a .50 cal.
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Male 51
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Male 51
I`m going to make this real simple, if you don`t know anything about warfare....you should probably STFU and educate yourselves! The relevant document for such education would be: The Law of Land Warfare. Link is attached below. This is taught to every person at Basic Training and reinforced every time you deploy.

FM 27-10 is a lengthy read but the bottom line is that at the very least the pilots should not have fired upon Non-Combatants rendering medical assistance. Further, before any of you "know it alls" want to comment on the date of the document, you better read it first and understand the historical significance of the sources before opening your mouths! If you can find a later version on the net, I will be willing to eat crow, but I would be very surprised that it has significantly changed since I served (1983-1998).

Male 13
The comments on i-am-bored tend to be on the level of retarded 8 year-olds arguing about who took a poo on the teachers desk.
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Male 12,138
[quote]Democracy sucks and it`s anti-minority.[/quote]
*Takes off mod hat, puts on regular commenter hat*

Hmm. As opposed to Anarchy, where minorities, the weak, the disadvantaged, the disabled, the very young, the very old, etc etc all have a fair shot in the competition?

Anarchist, there`s a good reason why the best countries in the world to live in all practice Democracy, wheras those that don`t are generally sh*tholes. Anarchy was what we did in the stone age. There`s a reason we don`t do it anymore.
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Male 264
why was it necessary to fire on the van after they had determined that they were treating the wounded?
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Male 893
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Male 893
[quote]You seem to be under the mistaken belief that if the USA withdrew from all it`s bases and became isolationist, That these rogue states would somehow change and like us again. [/quote]

They are less likely to hate us if we`re not near their countries and their holy land. You seem to be under the mistaken belief that if the USA stayed within all it`s bases and continued to be empiricist, That these rogue states would somehow change and like us if we protected democracy and overthrew dictators.

We should not overthrow dictators because the people that were supporting those dictators will still fight back every now and then. (Why do you think we can`t control Iraq?) Like I said the state cannot exist on force alone. If they want to be free then they need to stop supporting their state.

Iraq is split by the Sunni and the Shia. The last thing they need is democracy. Democracy sucks and it`s anti-minority.
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Female 876
and you call THEM terrorists... having big guns with high technology makes you NOT terrorists then? *clap clap* congratulations for your high humanity and blaming every people on mideast for being terrorists
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Male 120
rule of thumb: stay out of site.
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Male 17,511
Adi_Noor: How many have died from the rocket attacks and kidnappings by the palestinians ?
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Male 17,511
AnarchistGod: You seem to be under the mistaken belief that if the USA withdrew from all it`s bases and became isolationist, That these rogue states would somehow change and like us again.

That would not happen, It would be seen as a sign of weakness and we would be attacked yet again and again like 9/11. These people we are fighting `love death` (according to Bin Laden) and we love life. You seem to believe that the US is evil because we want to save peoples lives, protect democracy, and overthrow dictators.

How about I start showing you what Saddam and his sons did to their own people ? Maybe some photos of what Iran has done to it`s citizens ? Perhaps video of the stonings and beheadings of the taliban ?
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Male 893
I know enough. I know that placing militaries bases around the world has upset countries before.
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Male 191
Any one know how many gazan and plastinain civilians had died today? Go and Support Israel.
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Female 8,045
It frightens and appalls me on posts like these how aggressive and angry a lot of you seem to be. Perhaps the group attitude seen on here could be part of the reason this kind of thing happens. How about calm and rational debate leading to an acceptable compromise. There are always people who kick off with a gut reaction, get angry and stir up others. End result- you jsut watched it, a load of people in a position they cannot reverse- but I bet every single one of them wishes they could.
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Male 893
[quote">The `state` you refer too was founded for the people and by the people. `WE THE PEOPLE` are the state here. If you don`t like it either elect those who you believe will change it or exercise your right to leave.[/quote">

If you lived in a land that allowed people to rape children I am sure you would not approve of it and you would argue against it. Would it be a argument for your opposition to say "Well this is what we do here in this country. We rape children. Love it or leave".
Now you can see that saying "Love it or leave it" is not an argument, but rather something people say when they don`t have one.

"We" are not the state.

A basic argument against the state.
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Male 17,511
[quote">Please tell me the date of my comment where I denied history?[/quote">

I didn`t say you denied history, I said you haven`t learned it yet.

The Mufti And Hitler
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Male 893
[quote]People like AnarchistGod, Have failed to learn the history behind the current situation.[/quote]

Please tell me the date of my comment where I denied history?
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Male 17,511
[quote]"No they don`t. Not only that, but the state doesn`t even have the right to exist in the first place.."[/quote]

The `state` you refer too was founded for the people and by the people. `WE THE PEOPLE` are the state here. If you don`t like it either elect those who you believe will change it or exercise your right to leave.
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Male 782
In this thread: walls of text.
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Male 12,138
Anarchist, my apologies on the accusation of borderline spam. I was referring to this, which I see you`ve since deleted. I realise now that you were trying to post an image which redirected. Pardon me, I mistook it for spam.

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Male 17,511
What `Bin Laden`s Letter` Boils down to is anti-semitism. Muslims have hated Jews since WW2, When the grand mufti joined with Hitler to prepare the `The solution`, The genocide of the Jews. The Jews ancestral Home is Israel, There is irrefutable archaeological evidence of that fact.

The Baath Party was created by Nazi`s and Muslims, Saddam Hussein came to power through the Baath Party.

They hate us because we support Israel. Until Muslims change and recognize Israel`s right to exist, There will be no peace.

People like AnarchistGod, Have failed to learn the history behind the current situation. It goes back before WW2 and it`s just a continuation of Nazism in Muslim robes.
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Male 893
[quote]Wow, Swearing at a mod. ? That sort of hostility is not what IAB is about. [/quote]

I`m not hostilely to anybody and I`m especially not hostile to Davymid or Nidonemo.
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Male 893
@CrakrJak
[quote]Might I also point out that it is a country`s right to hang traitors and insurrectionists. This applies to both the ones seen in the video, and you yourself if you aren`t careful.[/quote]

No they don`t. Not only that, but the state doesn`t even have the right to exist in the first place because it doesn`t have the right to take the fruits of my labor.(taxation) It doesn`t matter what the state claims they have a right to. Think for yourself and stop accepting what you were spoon-fed.
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Male 893
@Davymid
I was unaware that swastikas were not allowed on this site so I deleted the post myself after I reposted it.
Nor did I know that "suck my d1ck" would be censored.
I don`t know what borderline spam that I have posted. Could you point out them to me? Yes my material is offensive, but I always try to prove a point. Other user have even said themselves that I had an excellent point.
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Male 17,511
Wow, Swearing at a mod. ? That sort of hostility is not what IAB is about.

AnarchistGod: Might I also point out that it is a country`s right to hang traitors and insurrectionists. This applies to both the ones seen in the video, and you yourself if you aren`t careful.
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Male 893

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Male 12,138
In this thread alone, you`ve had borderline spam, deliberately offensive images with swasticas deleted, personal attacks that bypass the swear filter deleted, and now you`re reposting the swear filter bypass/personal attack combo (as text rather than image), except this time inviting a Mod to suck your dick? Dude, stop pushing the rules (come on, it`s IAB, we don`t have many, not much to ask) and keep it to civilized debate, please.
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Male 12,138
@Anarchist, "suck my d1ck" is censored, so suck my big fat american dick will also be censored. Besides which, you didn`t just post it as a comment, you singled out another user, made a large image specifying that HE should suck your big fat american dick, and posted the image, large. Look, this is a 13+ website, there are kids here. We didn`t make the swear filter, we inherited it from the previous administration (ahem), but we will enforce it. Likewise with personal attacks. So please, I`m asking nicely, knock it off. And what has 4chan.org got to do with anything? If that was a link rather than an image, it`d be taken as spam, as it has NOTHING to do with the post in question.
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Male 15,832
It`s bad when innocent civilians get killed or wounded, but that`s the nature of war. However, if the Iraqi people had managed to organize themselves into a civilized society, as opposed to a corrupt, war-mongering, terrorist-supporting, torturing, genocidal dictatorship, we wouldn`t have had to go in there and kick their asses.
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Male 9,305
Guys before I go to bed, remember this:

Name calling is not civil, nor is it smiled upon by mods, so behave please. Keep tempers cold.

Good night and remember, this IS the internet.
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Male 191
Islam does not allow to fight with every non-muslim, Instead Jihad only becomes compulsory against them who are harming Muslims or Islam.
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Male 678
Bin Ladens Letter

I`ll probably get crucified for this but here it is....

Other than all the religious ranting claiming that to follow the Quran is the ONLY way. He does make some good points.
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Male 195
Lazy, the government and police are reactionary. Usually only respond to rape, murder etc, after it has happened. It still comes down to the person to protect themselves in that instant when the poo is about to hit the fan. A person must still be prepared to protect oneself. At the moment they are citizens of the state of nature and no other. Good to have a gun at that moment me thinks.
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Male 39,893
I have no problem with any of the actions taken by the soldiers. This is what war looks like, always has. If any of you thought it was romantic like a John Wayne movie, you were being naive.
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Male 12,138
14 pages of debate and all of it (the vast majority anyway), civilized and intelligent? Well done, IAB debaters, as you were, carry on.
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Male 1,370
...sooo...was I the only one that thought this was like call of duty?
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Male 10,440
@AnarchistGod, No, I meant that murder, rape and theft were freedoms that have to be restricted (in order to protect the rights to life, well being and property), I thought it was clear.
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Male 195
Unfortunately I think they (the terrorists) had to be made to understand (and with Iraq settling a score) that we were not afraid to die, kill, invade, spend our wealth, face the worlds scorn, etc...
I believe it is the only thing they actually do understand, now anyway, about America. That we can and will be brutal when needed.

Bad stuff happens in war, this was one of them. These soldiers where warriors making war, doing what they though was right. They were wrong in there judgment. It happens in every war. We do do it better now. In past wars we would have just carpet bombed the place and been done with it. So in the end even this wrong was better than the alternative.

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Male 893
@LazyMe484
I`m not sure if you`re implying that people have the right to murder someone. (they don`t so it`s not a right that needs to be restricted)

Believe it or not. A lion does not have a right to kill an antelope.
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Male 10,440
[quote] I don`t hate America, but I do have the right to hate it. However that right does not come from America itself. [/quote]

That is an interesting thought. IMO a person`s rights don`t come from a government, they are intrinsic to people and a government merely takes them away, so in that sense I agree. However I also believe that in certain circumstances its necessary to restrict the rights of some to protect that of others; murder, rape, theft, this is done by a government.
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Male 893
@Tifer
I guess we`re not so different. Enjoy your sleep sir.
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Male 38
Well then maybe we don`t have as much to argue about as I thought. Huh...
I guess I`m out of steam now. I need sleep. Good flaming.
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Male 893
[quote]What possible reason could you have to be carrying a gun along a military patrol route?[/quote]

I`ll admit that carrying a gun during a wartime is probably not the smartest idea, but they still have the right to do so.
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Male 10,440
[quote] If you try to fudge with us, all hell is going to pay. [/quote]

Its a good thing the US govt. is not as bloothirsty as you, or most of the world would be destroyed, including you. That kind of thinking was abandoned long ago and for good reason.
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Male 38
And I guess that IS a better idea than what we`re doing now. I agree.
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Male 893
[quote]You don`t have that much freedom. But even so, this is hypocritical. He has the freedom to hate you, doesn`t he?[/quote]

I don`t hate America, but I do have the right to hate it. However that right does not come from America itself.
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Male 38
No, no, no. I`m not justifying killing innocents. I`m saying that for the safety of innocents during wartime, they shouldn`t carry guns down the road. The troops would pass by a group of unarmed civilians without any trouble, but why would you defend their right to bear arms if it`s just going to get them killed? Freedom of speech and the right to bear arms don`t matter during the heavy parts of war. It sounds worse than it is, really. Rights don;t matter during wartime not because I`m evil and want to see everyone dead but because it`s dangerous to be toting guns when you know you`ll be gunned down. What possible reason could you have to be carrying a gun along a military patrol route?
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Male 893
@Tifer
[quote]Lower the gun and hope they don`t convert us to radioactive vapor?[/quote]

Yes. Like I said we can`t win the war on terror by using force. The best thing to do would be to leave, ask for forgiveness, and have a free trade between the nations. They are less likely to attack us if their economy is depended on us. I`m not sure if this would work, but you have to admit that it`s a better idea than what we are doing now.
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Male 208
I`m sure there is another way, like if everyone were atheist, or if everyone were political instead of military. Honestly those soldiers did their job. They had weapons, and weapons = enemy. I think in that kind of environment shooting first is better than waiting to possibly get your head blown off before your buddies start shooting. This war really is pointless though. I`m sure it`s just that there`s a lot of red tape getting in the way. Also the part where it shows the kids in the van.... no way. No one could`ve told that they were kids. You could hardly see them. That was just dumb
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Male 10,440
[quote] For a country that you hate so much, you sure do love our freedom. [/quote]

You don`t have that much freedom. But even so, this is hypocritical. He has the freedom to hate you, doesn`t he?
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Male 195
Scarred
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Male 893
@Tifer
[quote]Rights do not matter during wartime[/quote]

Yes they do! Quit using BS statements to justify the killing of innocent people.

[quote]I suggest you reread the history. America did NOT attack cuba.[/quote]
They supported the attack. Kennedy even said himself that he was the responsible officer.
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Male 195
Clearly journalist traveling with armed escorts.

Their death and shooting at children is wrong.

Military, stop taking credit for keeping us safe.

You have only been able to do what you do because of the will of the American people.

The will of the American people is eroded by this poo.

I know too many ex military turned cops who don`t give a rats ass about the constitution.

When we really are invaded it will be militia who bails us out.

I believe we try to do good, bad always has happened and always will happen in war.

Those who do the killing and the family of those who are killed will forever be scared.
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Male 38
Anarchistgod,
Then what do you suggest? Lower the gun and hope they don`t convert us to radioactive vapor? If we aren`t monitoring them how can we be sure they aren`t plotting revenge? I admit it was dumb to participate in this war, regardless of who started it. But we`re in a fine mess now.
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Male 10,440
And to all you uber-patriotic, gun-toting warmongering Americans who think that somehow your guerrilla wars in the middle east are "defending global freedom", you really need to get your heads out of your asses. Iraq hasn`t ever posed a serious threat to the developed world even with Sadam in power. If the war was justified you can be sure that the entire western world would support the US on it, or even fight it themselves.
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Male 893
@koviaem
[quote]I personally don`t give a damn what other countries think if we have our bases near them. The reason why we even HAVE bases there is to show that we have military might worldwide.[/quote]

All that does is anger other people. It`s so much easier to attack innocent people then it is to find a terrorist. The war on terror cannot be won by the barrel of a gun.
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Male 5
@AnarchistGod
And btw, before you reference Bay of Pigs again, I suggest you reread the history. America did NOT attack cuba. Cubans supplied by Americans attempted to storm Cuba hoping for American air superiority.

I hope there aren`t any Cubans near you. Cause they like to gut idiots like you.
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Male 678
Well said Koviaem on both posts. Its just a shame our so called "leaders" have come up with a war plan that puts everybody at risk.
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Male 38
Anarchistgod,
This whole rapid-conversation thing is getting jumbled up, so bear with me. You don`t seem to understand how war works, and I`m not going to touch on whether we should be in the war or not. Rights do not matter during wartime, for however long there is opposition that is how long you won`t be able to carry AKs out on the street. I can`t justify the declaration of the war, but I`ll fight to the death over it`s proper execution.(pun pun pun) And no, America won`t just stay there killing for no reason. That won`t happen because America doesn`t stand alone: the UN would kick our ass (diplomatically) if we turned into a bloodthirsty army-country hellbent on causing suffering.
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Male 893
@Tifer
[quote]He`s saying that YOU are abusing the rights of a country that you hate. He`s not saying that countries can justify anything, he`s pointing out that you are honoring america`s one true value: freedom of speech. For a country that you hate so much, you sure do love our freedom.[/quote]

I repeat myself. Rights don`t come from the collective.
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Male 10,440
I`m not going to take either side on this.

Its very difficult to blame the US soldiers since they were likely following orders that told them how to react. Its unwise to be in a group of people carrying weapons in the middle of a warzone. The fact that they weren`t pointing their weapons at the heli is a technicality. On the other hand we can blame US military tactics in general, those in the heli are in a far superior position, they could have taken out a megaphone and ordered those on the ground to surrender and not just mowed them down. The reporters and children are unfortunate casualties. I`ll take a guess and say that the US soidiers wouldn`t intentionally fire on children or reporters if they knew about it.

The fact that this is a war doesn`t justify it, but it does explain it. Could the US use less brutal tactics? IMO sure, but it doesn`t have to since its already "in a war". I guess what this boils down to is the war itself, which is wrong.
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Male 678
This has all gotten to jumbled. To all the soldiers who ghost this site... come home!
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Male 5
@AnarchistGod
Please...Don`t insult me with that argument.

Tell you what:
1) Open up google in your browser
2) Type in the search box, "Bin Laden`s letter)
3) Read it.

I personally don`t give a damn what other countries think if we have our bases near them. The reason why we even HAVE bases there is to show that we have military might worldwide. If you try to fudge with us, all hell is going to pay. I live in America. I am an American. Our country is the GREATEST country in the world due to the work of OUR people. Those people were the World`s tired, hungry, and poor.

If those countries are angry because we put bases in their faces, fudge them. Maybe if they learned to cease genocide, and to stop funding terrorists, we wouldn`t have to stick our boots in their faces.
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Male 5
@SaltyVarnish
I agree that the war was mismanaged, miscommunicated, and ill-planned. I for one am a Hobbesian. Believing that man is inherently evil and must be pulled into order through an iron fist. I for one would not have made the call to shoot the photographers. But not everyone makes the right call in life.
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Male 893
@Tifer
[quote]Iraq is not America so you can`t get into a heated rant about rights.[/quote]

This shows how much of an idiot you are. RIGHTS DON`T COME FROM THE COLLECTIVE!
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Male 38
Trying to police the world? You mean keep our neighbors from killing each other? I can`t tell if you`re insensitive or misinformed.
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Male 38
Anarchistgod (again)
Despite your recent achievement of "Poptard of the Year" you continue to prove just how much you qualify. You missed auburn`s point so completely that I almost forgot you were talking to him.
He`s saying that YOU are abusing the rights of a country that you hate. He`s not saying that countries can justify anything, he`s pointing out that you are honoring america`s one true value: freedom of speech. For a country that you hate so much, you sure do love our freedom.
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Male 893
And for the record American soldiers are NOT protecting this country. They are endangering it by trying to police the world.
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Male 893
@Tifer
None of that matters. We don`t have the right to be there in the first place. They have a right to weapons no matter during peace or during wartime. Everyone has the right to defend themselves even if our government says we don`t or have to have a permit. And in case you`re forgetting we are invading them and not the other way around. The state can NOT exist on force alone so we have no need to liberate them. People rise up. Like we did during the American revolution.
It`s pathetic to see people appealing to morals. Morals are stupid. They are just an attempt to give preferences superpowers.
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Male 893
@auburnjunky
[quote]Love it, or leave it.[/quote]

You`re an idiot and I`ll prove it. If you lived in a land that allowed people to rape children I am sure you would not approve of it and you would argue against it. Would it be a argument for your opposition to say "Well this is what we do here in this country. We rape children. Love it or leave".
Now you can see that saying "Love it or leave it" is not an argument, but rather something people say when they don`t have one.

@Altaru
[quote]There`s no need whatsoever to be carrying around RPGs unless you intend to blow sh*t up.[/quote]

It doesn`t matter. They still have a right to weapons.

@koviaem
Al-Qaeda attacked America on 9/11 because our military bases and missiles were too close to their countries and holy lands. So they attacked us. Kind of like how we attacked Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis because their missiles were too close to our land.(Bay of Pigs)
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Male 678
typical youngster knows nothing of respect!
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Male 38
Wait a second...This is a trick.
Thats what it is! IAB is setting us up, trying to create the biggest flame-war that ever was! They feed on our nerdrage. This is the pinnacle of manipulation!
Hehe, it`s also kinda funny. Keep on truckin`, debaters.
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Male 38
My last post was for toaster strudels.
Mmmmmm...
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Male 678
koviaem (respect)
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Male 678
my last post was for Koviam
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Male 678
I agree, people need to wake up! But what i am saying to you is the action we are taking against terrorists and pirates and hijackers is obviously NOT working. An ICBM is not the answer. You are saying the military`s presence envokes fear and from that fear we get (hope to get) a dont [email protected] with us look that you are saying protects me while i sleep. I`m saying that a military strategy that doesn`t work on the war front or the home front needs to regroup, observe, re-plan & re-attack. What we all are doing is wrong against the civilians and humanity. Do you not agree there must be another way?
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Male 3,482
Alright, I finished my chapter, so Imma go to bed for now.

I feel that this has been a worthwhile debate, and has helped me become more clear of my opinions on many issues.

I thank IAB for this, and now, I say good night.
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Male 38
Anarchistgod,
Carrying weapons is protected in the united states, with a permit. Carrying weapons in Iraq, during wartime, is very, very different. It`s common knowledge that if you`re in a warzone, brandishing guns isn`t tolerated. And how can you say our soldiers are bad for being ignorant? That`s what you said, right? That they`re so ignorant that they don`t know what they`re doing is bad? Regardless of whether it is or isn`t bad, the soldiers wouldn`t be to blame. Blaming the misinformed is a terrible thing to do, verging on hate crime. Learn your morals before you preach them.
And what do you know about rights? You know American rights, and arguing that Iraqis have them is just stupid. Morals aside, Iraq is not America so you can`t get into a heated rant about rights.
Congratulations, "Anarchistgod" (your name implies you know everything about the structure of a society, btw) you have earned the poptard of the year award.
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Male 5
@SaltyVarnish

If ICBM`s solved the world`s problems, then explain how an ICBM would have saved the life of that captain who was kidnapped by somalian pirates? Or better yet, how would ICBMs stop terrorists from hijacking the planes you like to travel in? I mean...if you really want us to blow up every plane that gets hijacked out of the sky...

I am not trying to patronize you, but sometimes people need to get there heads out of their arses.

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Male 678
@koviaem - I appreciate your service in the hell hole your in and the bureaucratic bull poo you put up. but don`t patronize me that you and the soldiers presence in that place keeps us safe. if the fear you invoke in people is the only thing that keeps us safe then I say build more ICBM`s they do the same job as what your implying. Get the hell out of there and go home to your family they need you more than Iraqs fear of the US does.
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Male 3,482
Man... I just wanna finish my manga chapter and go to bed, but this just keeps mesmerizing me back in...

Auburn, apparently no explosives have been found on the scene yet, and they think it was just a sarcastic comment. A stupid sarcastic comment, something about "trying to light my shoes on fire" to cover up the smell of cigarette smoke, but a sarcastic comment no less that was taken seriously by the flight attendant.

... I suppose caution is necessary, but still, it`s sad that this is the level of paranoia we`ve reached, seeing as how we can never tell who`s who in this f*cked up world anymore..
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Male 10,338
Do or die koviaem.

Thanks for your service.
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Male 5
For all you that have had the liberty to comment on how American soldiers are modern day Nazis, murderers, and bloodthirsty. Let me remind you that the only reason why you sleep in your home, or car, or hobo-house safely, is because American (not canadian, not german, not chinese, and not african) soldiers risk their lives in order to become a threat to anyone (terrorists, rogue nations, idealists) who has the goal of bringing harm to you, your family, and your loved ones.

I am positive that not one of you has ever had to give up your life to defend your country against the inevitable conflict of war.

So go on, continue to post your ignorant comments. Quote your favorite internet source that tallies how many people have been killed by american forces. I assure you that those figures are minute compared to the death toll of cigarettes, car crashes, and disease.

Semper Fi
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Male 10,338
@jak. Read the comments before you post. I shows that you are un-educated about the topic.
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Male 10,338
Anarchistgod. Get the hell out of my country. Treason is punishable by death. Luckily for you, your treasonist banter is protected by the very men you condemn.

They are the reason the first amendment is still around, or you would be dragged out into the street and stoned to death.

Love it, or leave it.
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Male 154
man thats messed up. its not the soldiers faults tho. its ours for going into this retarded war. way to go republicans. weapons of mass destruction, right?
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Male 10,338
News flash. There was an attempted terrorist attack tonight.

A plane from Washington D.C. to Denver was almost blown up by a guy with C4 in his shoes.

Air Marshals took him down while he was trying to light them.

The guy was from Qatar.

I`m just sayin`.

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Male 21
AMERICA!!!! drat YEAH!!! COMIN` TO SAVE THE MUTHAdratIN` DAY YEAH!!!!Yeah, dont bring an rpg to the middle of a warzone with circling apaches. Hell, if i was walkin around my neighborhood with an rpg im sure a swat team would put me down pretty quick.
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Male 3,482
"They have a right to weapons."

There`s no need whatsoever to be carrying around RPGs unless you intend to blow sh*t up.

Even in the gun-happy US, there are limits.

You know, random thought, but I`ve talked with someone who lived under Hussein`s rule before the US came in.

From what he said, there was a decent standard of living, so long as you didn`t disagree with whatever Hussein said. Because if you did, hoo boy, death was the least of your worries.

Now, call me a hypocrite, but the fact is, I try to see all sides. What I`m trying to say is, that an entire group in the country was being severely suppressed because they were different from the majority. America moved in to try and make things even. The side that was in control before is now angry, and lashing out, and those are our terrorists.

However, I still think it`s all agenda and politics, as opposed to genuine desire to free people...
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Male 907
Okay. So if some secret service agent had a gun and was milling about with the president in disguise as the photographer, this is still justified right?
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Male 678
@Keegan31 - Way to make your point! Should i just guess what you thinking??
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Male 893



Why do theses idiots think that just because they had a weapon it justifies the Americans killing the Iraqis?

Does simply carrying a weapon justify killing someone? No.

Does pointing a weapon at someone justify you killing them? Yes it does.

These Iraqis didn`t point their weapons at the Americans.
The Americans pointed their weapons at the Iraqis.
The Americans had no right to be there and kill people who simply carried weapons. They have a right to weapons.
The Iraqis had every right to kill the Americans that invaded their land.

American soldiers are the scum of the Earth. There`re worse than rapists because at least most rapists realize what they do is wrong. These American soldiers think that what they are doing is good and just. The American soldier is today`s modern day Nazi and it is how history will look back at us.
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Male 228
"The Threat was GONE after the initial shot."

Incorrect.
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Female 85
I`m not going to read 12 pages of people`s back and forth banter so if this has already be stated, my apologies. First off, the camera`s that the 64`s use are grainy and poo quality. Secondly, the only way to see those kids, was to zoom way in and guess that what you were looking at was kids. Neither of which could have happened aboard that Apache. This incident is exactly what Altaru stated, an example of a percieved threat. Sadly, civilians casualties happen. Thankfully, the Army is realizing that there`s no way to win the war without the support of the Iraqi and Afgahni people and thus, need to eliminate civilian casualties as much as possible. But all in all, the majority of you cannot judge those four pilots and their decisions because you`ll never be faced with that choice. You`ll never know what it`s like to see someone and wonder "will they kill me before I kill them?"
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Female 2,549
this is sickening to watch but in the warzone then this kind of things happen all the time, we just don`t know about it. And the soldiers trash talking and laughing is shocking to us but we send these humans out to kill other humans for the good of the country.
to be able to do that day in and day out , not to forget the stress and lack of sleep , they have to become inhuman to carry out their duties. that means lapse of judgement and crass reactions to keep their own sanity. If we, as nations (and people of it) choose to have armies and wage wars then do not blame soldiers who are simply trained to be the killing machines. It`s likely that some of them will deal with it in a less civilized manner.
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Male 141
So they`re just assuming they all had Ak`s and RPG`s?
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Male 678
No further action was necessary. do you think killing the people that came out of the van or that were lying half dead in the street would end the war. FIGHT WHEN YOU NEED TO!! the initial shot "yes" that was an RPG being carried by an idiot surrounded by people who didn`t mind travelling with an idiot. But regardless of the kids they didn`t need to shoot a second time.
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Male 17,511
Mamaof5: Take a good look at the picture below and tell me you don`t see one man with an RPG and another with a rifle (likely a ak47).
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Male 678
@Znaught - Dude you missed the point. The Threat was GONE after the initial shot. did you see anyone holding a RPG or anything that came out of that van?? NO!
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Female 56
Really, I`m blind as a bat with my glasses off and I could tell that was a camera. Guy said 5 or 6 with AK47`s...err...I didn`t see any personally. What the heck was that all about? That`s not even friendly fire, that`s hostility for fellow man. No wonder they hate us "white man" over on the other side of the globe. (btw: Canadian, married mother of 5 if you can`t guess from my user name). I don`t blame any of them for hating us, we brought it on ourselves as a Western society.
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Male 3,482
"Altaru is a damn good troll."

No, you`re just a damn good dumbass. I have my reasons for my opinion, I stated them clearly.

I think it`s pretty sad that the definition of troll has been so degraded that it`s used by morons like you to define anyone who`s opinions you don`t agree with.

Actually... Doesn`t that make YOU the troll, since all you did was come in here and make an inflammatory remark?

"in fact is their anybody on IAB who has or is in the military. What do you think about the actions of the men in Heli and the commander who said "shoot"."

I think we used to... But then there came a sudden surge of people who came in screaming "WE HATE SOLDIERS, F*CK AMERICA AND THEIR OIL WAR."

And then, because none of them could ever actually prove that they had formed that opinion of their own accord, our soldier friends here got disgusted and chose to stay away.
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Male 17,511


This part can not be shown enough, What sane cameraman or reporter hangs around a combat area with people armed liked this ?

The only answer is: Those that have a death wish.
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Male 351
@SaltyVarnish: They did not shoot the wounded man until he became a threat or was amongst other possible threats. Man, if you knew those "heads" were the children from seeing the raw footage, man you must be psychic. I would have thought nothing of 2 circles. So again, how would you know those 2 circles are heads without knowing prior that there are kids in the car? I mean can you see distinct facial features?

@aseirinn: 2) War was declared. 3) If you mean "for their dead murdering dictator, then yes. 4)Looks to be pretty precise. It is also not a WMD. I mean it is a pretty precision oriented device compared to a nuke or a scud launcher.

@emzrok: Who condones the killing of innocents? No one that I can think of.




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Male 678
in fact is their anybody on IAB who has or is in the military. What do you think about the actions of the men in Heli and the commander who said "shoot".
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Male 893

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Male 678
@rgu3to - are you in the U.S. Army or do you just like a man in Uniform. I`m curious to hear your views if you are in the military.
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Male 79
@emzrok and you taught you that way of thinking? you certainly didn`t just happen to come up with the same conclusion as a few other "americans". you`re from one extreme to the other and don`t even realize it.
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Male 868
Altaru is a damn good troll.
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Female 1,306
I find it funny that they can kill so many of our citizens, and we`re angry as poo over it, but when our troops kill innocent people like this, it`s not publicized, hardly anyone bats an eye.

This war is pathetic. As soon as I can I`m moving out of this horrible country to anywhere the leaders don`t condone these sorts of "mistakes"

Screw America. I`m sick of our troops, this war, everything. Many times we`re just as much of terrorists as they are.
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Female 124
The attitude of these soldiers was not unlike someone playing call of duty trigger happy and disrespectful...
Those were people they killed and laughed at and whose remains they drove over in a tank and they can never ever bring them back.
Their attitude, their language and their LAUGHTER was absolutely sickening.
IMO they dont deserve to return home safely.
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Male 877
1/do you agree with the invasion of Iraq? yes/no

2/ is this war?, war was never declared...this IS an invasion of a sovereign country.

3/were terrorists killed here? or were Iraqi fighters fightin` for they`re country against invading forces?

4/ is an apache helicopter a weapon of mass destruction with no regard for colateral damage from 4miles out?

5/will America stop at Iraq?

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Male 678
And im sure the US did blow up a bunker with kids in it! but your right no that doesn`t make US soldiers trigger happy. the US military relies heavily on its technology to make decisions but the fact is they made a rash decision based on that technology. Now two innocent kids are dead. Ever hear of the word "Observe" like we just shot those people who posed a threat (fair enough) oh look a van is coming....hmmm whats it doing.....hmmm its collecting injured people.....hmmm that looks like two small heads riding shot gun......hmmm maybe we should wait before we shoot again......i mean we are in a Apache helicopter they aint getting away.....disaster avoided by not being trigger happy.
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Male 678
@Znaught - Do you not think that because the RPG has been destroyed (the reason they were gunned down in the first place), they have just been shot by "god" and probably not dumb enough to pick up the RPG again they are moving the dead and injured and trying to crawl away. That the threat is nullified and the chance that two small heads peering out from a car that may or may not be children deserved to be taken into consideration. The same action by the Apache helicopter was not needed twice.
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Male 351
@SaltyVarnish: Except again, they didn`t know the kids were there. So how does that make them trigger happy? If a militant group had a kid at their training facility underground and we blew it up, does that make us trigger happy? NO.

I`m sure the camera does have a good zoom. However it is not 100x zoom or something.

@a1butcher: If I was in Baghdad, I`m sure I would.


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Male 678
personally i wouldn`t have my kids in a car in a warzone. using them like sheilds makes those people.....well....not people.
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Male 4,807
The kids could have be evacuated to a US hospital but they made the choice to take them to a gawl dang LOCAL hospital?!?
If your kids were shot, would you want them to go to a hospital in Baghdad??
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Male 3,482
*sigh*

I really wish we could speak in person. 1000 characters really isn`t enough to explain my thought processes to everyone.

I will say this.

At first, I WAS fooled into believe that this was a war for their sake, and that they were just ungrateful bastards fighting back because they were losing their power with the fall of the dictator.

However, as time has worn on, I`ve grown to see the truth.

Despite that, I still support the soldiers, most of them anyway, because most of them don`t want to kill people for no reason.

This video doesn`t show an unnecessary slaughter. It shows the elimination of a perceived threat, and for that, I applaud the men in the chopper.

There were mistakes made on both sides, but the majority blame lies with the "victims" for many reasons, not the least of which being that they carried weapons into a warzone, with no clear indication who they were.
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Male 678
And that is a fancy camera must have a hell of zoom!
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Male 678
It`s not the first action that was unreasonable it is the second the one where the kids are in the car and people are trying to help the injured. i didn`t see anyone helping the guy with the RPG. DEAD KIDS = Trigger Happy
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Male 4,807
I don`t think Salty is trolling at all. He`s Just making a point is all.
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Male 351
@SaltyVarnish: I do agree with your last comment.

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Male 351
@LuckyDave: As CrakrJak Posted:

Is that some sort of new RPG shaped camera that I am unaware of?

@SaltyVarnish: How is that trigger happy? There was what appeared to be a valid threat and the appropriate action was taken.

Except your first post was obvious trolling action. Not very stealthy however.
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Male 338
CarkrJak and Ryan have very reasonable points.
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Male 848
To sum up the whole comment thread:

The world sucks and we`re all evil. XD
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Male 478
Mistakes in judgement during war happens. Miscommunication and misinformation are inevitable at times. Let us all admit this is a mistake and move on. The journalists are in a war zone and understood very well they were always in a possibly deadly situation. And besides, there are no innocents in war.
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Male 678
Oh and governments serve us! We don`t serve them.
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Male 678
i forgot to add i hate it when adults make decisions that lead to innocent children being killed!!
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Male 678
What am i trolling for?? Anger, Argument, to make myself feel good fighting with a stranger. Im making a point! and the point is simple. Fight when you NEED to! Protect your own rights viciously! Care for the man next to you be it next door or a thousand mile away! Do your own little bit in your own small little world! Not be a gun totting paranoid trigger happy soldier!

@altaru- you don`t need to defend your soldiers because their not yours. you didn`t tell them to shoot. I dont condone war. but i do believe it is necessary sometimes. especially if people want to kill you over outdated beliefs. But when things get gray and government lose sight of what they should be doing and selling the public a golden reason. I get aggravated!

@Znaught- Please add something to the conversation. Dont just throw accusations out there when you dont know a thing about the person your trying to insult.
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Male 675
Took great pains to make sure no civvies were hurt? The chopper asked for permission to engage and that was all it took. What pains were they taking? The only people to blame here are the guys in the chopper. Although a camera looks nothing like an rpg, or an AK-47. To be honest I can understand where they are coming from to a small extent, they need to take precautions to protect themselves, but they were out in the open, not 10 seconds before, where on earth did they pull an rpg from in that length of time? Did someone hide one in their pants? Because I want to learn that trick, might get me laid more often.
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Male 815
all i say is, weapon or not, journalist or not, at THAT time, they saw a possible threat and acted accordingly, all i have to say is congrats on a job well done, soldiers.
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Male 4,807
Altaru "the people I`m arguing against are people like SaltyVarnish."

I just finished reading all 220 some comments and it seems to me Saltyvarnish only made 2 comments.

You my dear sir, are arguing your opinon against almost everyone.
You do make some very good points but Salty is not THE everyone you have been against.

Just saying
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Male 3,482
"When you have to spend your time defending the actions of your military is it really your military?"

If you had to spend your time defending the actions of one of your friends against people who won`t even let him speak, is he really your friend?

When I spend my time defending my military, or should I say, the soldiers, I realize that it`s a total waste of time because all the people I`m arguing against are people like SaltyVarnish.

However, I do it anyway, because I don`t want people being drawn to Salty`s POV because it`s the only one they get to see.
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Male 4,807
And Americans are "afraid" of the terrorists in their country.
Looks like the Americans are the terrorists in this case!
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Male 7,378
When you have to spend your time defending the actions of your military is it really your military?
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Male 351
@SaltyVarnish: Obvious troll is obvious.
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Male 678
You know what the American public should do. they should protest (the ones who care). But then again even if it was a peaceful protest the police would peacefully shoot tear gas and peacefully roll a riot tank in with water cannons and those sirens. Enjoy your prison America Enjoy being lied to and your rights violated. As long as you have Oprah and some nachos you are happy to be the little worker bees.
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Male 2,486
I don`t want to read through all the comments, but it would be interesting to hear someone condemning the people in the helicopter who HAS been in war, and has been in a situation like that. To be completely blunt, I`d say this is a "sh*t happens" moment. The fact that they DID find weapons after all of this was over justifies what happens. Collateral damage, just like the video is called. When you guys invent a helicopter that can fire 30mm bullets from HUGE distances with pinpoint accuracy, then you can start being outraged by it. Is it a tragedy? Yes. Should you condemn the people responsible? Not at all. I made this argument to my friend and he asked "Why didn`t they just bring in snipers?". All I had to say was, "This isn`t MW2."
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Male 678
YEEEE HAAAAAA! [email protected] YEAH! coming to save the mutha [email protected] day yeah. You got those bastards even them little rugrats. damn America is so hardcore. im just curious though shouldn`t this Apache helocopter be around the oil fields? i mean was he just on a joy ride...like a Iraq marine holiday? you know like deer season.
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Male 2,486
"
can anyone mark where shots were beign fired? And how can they be shooting at the soldiers if they are inside that plane or whatever the hell they`re in?"

It`s a helicopter gun you`re seeing from. They`re quite a ways away, considering the time from the gunshot to the impact. If you`re talking about the soldiers in the helicopter.. a helicopter is by no means invincible. One good RPG hit will take it out of the sky and kill everyone in it, no problem. If you`re talking about the "soldiers" on the ground, they`re firing out of a gun attached to the helicopter.
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Male 3,482
"If the bullets are a correct gauge of distance, bearing in mind these are high calibre, very powerful guns we`re taking about, then in comparison the measly AK`s would have no effect, especially to that of a moving target."

I believe it was stated by someone earlier, but a few well-placed AK bullet can take down a chopper, not to mention the high-chance of an on-scene RPG.

"If it was the other way round and it was innocent Americans then you wouldn`t be so quick to defend the accused."

I can`t speak for everyone, but I, personally, would. Like I said, these soldiers were completely in the right in this situation. There was a threat, so instead of taking the chance that they would fire first, our soldiers eliminated it.

It`s easy to treat this as a horrible act of jumping the gun in retrospect, now that we know the details, but at that moment, it was different.
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Male 3,482
"Not meaning to revive that discussion, but it was a US flag with swastikas insted of stars."

Ahh, so that`s it...

"I enjoyed your overview of the arguements Altaru, well done!"

Thank you. I tried to avoid sounding flamey, but honestly...

Just my personal opinion that I`ve held since this whole war began, but I "support the soldiers, not the government they fight for."

The soldiers are usually men and women who join up to fight for their country, and for the protection of the people.

From there, though, they get caught up in miles of government stupidity, and stuff like this ends up happening. Honestly, the soldiers are often casualties as much as the people who die. It`s sad, really.

I base my opinions on having soldiers among my family and close friends, since I haven`t actually been to war. But to listen to their stories... You`d understand.
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Male 209
"Yeah, but do YOU realize just how far away this chopper must have been for the bullets to take THAT LONG to hit? The camera was probably well zoomed in for most of this video."

None of us know the distance/scale of the camera zoom. If the bullets are a correct gauge of distance, bearing in mind these are high calibre, very powerful guns we`re taking about, then in comparison the measly AK`s would have no effect, especially to that of a moving target.

My only problem is that not enough confirmation was provided, meaning that innocent bystanders were killed. It`s not black and white, you treat each combat situation individually so make sure you know what you`re doing with your gun. If it was the other way round and it was innocent Americans then you wouldn`t be so quick to defend the accused.
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Male 976
Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give the appearance of solidity to pure wind.

Awesome beginning quote.
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Male 2,056
is this the glory of war that so many have spoken of?
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Male 209
Everyone speaks of this `reality`?

What do you and i know about reality in that situation. All i do know is that i would have my eye on whoever i thought might be a threat. Which related to my comment about line of site (because we only have this one limited camera view point).
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Male 3,482
"You do realise they`re not looking through this camera at all times. The guy mentions a `blue van` The heli`s have windows and i`m sure, before firing they will have looked out of them. That`s if they use the camera image at all."

Yeah, but do YOU realize just how far away this chopper must have been for the bullets to take THAT LONG to hit? The camera was probably well zoomed in for most of this video.

They could see a blue van, it`s a nice-sized object visible from a distance.

They most likely could NOT, however, have seen individual people well enough to make out what the object he was holding was.

"If i suspected a person with an RPG i would check over and over and this was not possible as the wall was in the way."

By the time you were done checking, if he really did have an RPG, you`d have been shot down and they`d be picking off any survivors.

Take no chances, live longer.
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Male 40,734
[quote]BTW, what all did AnarchistGod post?[/quote]
Not meaning to revive that discussion, but it was a US flag with swastikas insted of stars.
I enjoyed your overview of the arguements Altaru, well done!
"...i would check over and over..."
And, JMaybury, you and your crew would quite possibly be DEAD. Nothing personal, but that`s the way it is in reality.
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Male 65
all i can say is drat america.
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Male 17,511



It`s rather obvious that guy is carrying an RPG and the guy behind him has a rifle. But wikileaks didn`t point that out to anyone did they ?

These reporters were `palling` around with terrorists in an area they knew had seen recent combat. That`s not `murder`, That`s assisted suicide.
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Male 209
Altaru, you`ve mentioned this `through the grainy camera` thing before and just now.

You do realise they`re not looking through this camera at all times. The guy mentions a `blue van` The heli`s have windows and i`m sure, before firing they will have looked out of them. That`s if they use the camera image at all.

If i suspected a person with an RPG i would check over and over and this was not possible as the wall was in the way.
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Male 3,482
"I`m sure I speak for everyone else when I say that the man was CLEARLY holding a camera, not an RPG or AK47..."

No. No, you don`t, and if you could read the comments, you`d actually see that you are a minority around here, because apparently you can see around the corner to see the back of the protruding object, and you can see into the cameraman`s mind to understand why he`s standing at a corner, crouched, making himself look suspicious as he peeks around a corner, which from the soldiers POV looks like he`s preparing to take aim at them.
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Male 40,734
madest you`re officially pathetic:
[quote]Since he`s been president the war has been winding down. You should try paying attention AJ.[/quote]
It would be Bush who started bringing troops home (lowering troop numbers in Iraq) and it would be Obama sending MORE troops to Afghanistan, eh? (although I wish he`d sent more) it`s not AJ who needs some edumications.
"...Obama needs to sound like a nutjob..."
Laugh My Ass OFF!
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Male 351
@alx-ndr: No, you only speak for a select few who think that in a combat situation you are somehow able to simply ask if it is a camera.

at 2:18 if I recall correctly the cameraman is oddly having his camera out from the wall. Why would he do this? Looks like an RPG.
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Male 2,344
before anyone passes judgement remember this, there were confirmed reports that some of the men in that group did in fact have an RPG. I am not defending either side but if you ask me running around iraq with an rpg is a good way to get all blowed up...
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Male 95
I`m sure I speak for everyone else when I say that the man was CLEARLY holding a camera, not an RPG or AK47...
Makes me sick that some of the soldiers out there are so bloodthirsty that they think anything is a weapon just to have a go on the Apache`s guns.
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Male 2,229
Any idiot that calls a CITY where civilain live live, work and relax IS NOT A COMBAT ZONE. Bloody terrorists conduct a war in city! It saddens me that NO justice will ever come of this, for this is not an isolated incident. Any consideration that those "insurgents" are fighting an invaders and occupiers; would ANY one on here allow a foreign army occupy your home town/city/country and allow them free reign to kill, pillage and rape your homeland. I don`t think so! This is just another example of an imperial power out of control.

One sides insurgent, is the other side freedom fighter.

US Armed forces ARE terrorizing Iraqi and Afghan civilians. It has been documented over and over again. What will it take for this to end? For every Empire that has rolled into Afghanistan leaves at a lose.

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Male 351
@The_Frogg: The soldiers were in an Apache Longbow. Why couldn`t they shoot at it? Have you ever seen blackhawk down? They use RPGs to take down a few blackhawks.
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Male 619
can anyone mark where shots were beign fired? And how can they be shooting at the soldiers if they are inside that plane or whatever the hell they`re in?
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Male 73
Honestly how can anyone one of you pass judgment on anyone in this video without having been there and seen what they saw.... you cant. Its amazing how people can formulate an opinion of one or many and harbor that hatred or disgust without the full story....
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Male 36


"It wasn`t a rpg it was the telescopic lens of a camera and it was pointing towards the ground, not at the helecopter"

And you could have effortlessly noticed this through a grainy lens, while flying in a chopper, in a combat zone, from a fair distance away, in that situation?

"but they seemed to be enjoying it."

"I state again, usually not enjoyment, but excitement and a need for release of all the built-up "

No doubt they had weapons. you can even see rounds being fired. for anyone who sees this as horrible i understand, but you need to understand this is war; what do you expect? as for seeming to enjoy it you see that a lot in soldiers. They tend to separate themselves from their actions in order to deal with it better at the time, usually dealing with the conscious ramifications of war after they are out. The soldiers didn`t do anything wrong, they actually did a good job with their decisions on engageme
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Male 864
I think it`s terrible. Straight up, this shouldn`t have happened. "He was shooting at us" is a straight lie.

But what makes it really bad is that the gunner got off on it so hard. So proud to kill another human. Then laughs when they ran over the poor man`s dead body...

It just makes me sick.
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Male 3,482
"Acting casual" and having women and children around is a ploy, a desperate last-ditch effort by a coward terrorist to try and stop the soldiers from shooting back. Not only that, but it was nearly impossible to determine that there were children in the first place, looking from the video.

I can guarantee you that the soldiers who found the wounded children had to have some kind of therapy afterwards, and that the men speaking over the com were likely reprimanded for swearing, and that they WERE NOT laughing like some madman enjoying the murder. They were laughing because they had just done something terrible, but their system had sent out chemicals that prevented them from suffering the aftereffects. These chemicals mix, and produce the euphoric feeling that makes you laugh after a traumatic event.

BTW, what all did AnarchistGod post? I got here a little late to see it, so I`m a little confused...
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Male 3,482
"but there was no threat from that van and there was no need to shoot those people."

How do you know there was no threat from the van, or that the people weren`t taking terrorists so a local care facility so they could rejoin the fight? You can`t see inside the van, there could have been a weapons stash, and picking up bodies without the proper signs (like RED CROSS, etc.) is stupid anyway, and asking to be considered an enemy.

Look, I don`t agree with this war because, in all honesty, I think it`s more for personal agendas and economic gain than actual liberation and anti-terrorism.

However, In this situation ,the soldiers were completely in the right. They had weapons, they were on the wrong side of the area, and they could have presented a threat to ground troops later on.
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Male 3,482
"They are shooting at innocent people because they`re too ignorant to check whether or not the life they`re taking is actually going to kill them."

And how do you do that, just asking? Walk up to them with a flower in your hand and ask them to pretty please tell you whether they`re a terrorist or not?

"NO ONE, had weapons."

You, my friend, are both a f*cktard and a bad reader. Even the video admitted that they found weapons on the scene, meaning that they DID have weapons on them.

"It wasn`t a rpg it was the telescopic lens of a camera and it was pointing towards the ground, not at the helecopter"

And you could have effortlessly noticed this through a grainy lens, while flying in a chopper, in a combat zone, from a fair distance away, in that situation?

"but they seemed to be enjoying it."

I state again, usually not enjoyment, but excitement and a need for release of all the built-up
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Male 177
"No, we think they`re terrible and this is just another example of that. Yes, i know in the heat of the moment that people can make the wrong decision, but come the f*** on, this was way out of line... "

Shooting people holding guns inside a theatre of war is out of line? Maybe we could all go down and have high tea with them instead.
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Male 10,338
oceola = banned for bypassing censor.
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Male 93
Damn is all I have to say about this video.
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Male 3,482
"THEN, they fired at people under the premise of "They`re gathering weapons" when all they did was attempt to carry a body away (which was as clear as day all they did)"

Can I just ask WHY IN THE HELL THAT VAN WAS THERE IN THE FIRST F*CKING PLACE?!

For NO REASON, WHAT SO EVER, should any civilian EVER drive into a combat zone. And you couldn`t see all of them from the chopper, they could have had weapons in the other side of the van.

"Innocent people are not the "enemy". Those people trying to rescue the injured was not in any way shape or form the enemy."

See above statement. If they`re trying to move a wounded enemy from a combat zone, then it`s a fair bet that they are the enemy as well. Take no chances, stay alive.

"Yes, killing in a war is inevitable, and un-avoidable, but no one should enjoy it. Thats just sick."

It`s rare that they enjoy it. Mostly, it`s a release of the adren
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Male 464
Although its a bad way to take human life, the troops had permission to fire. Bushmaster had a good sitrep of armed citizens on the wrong side of the western forces line, acting quite funny the one with the RPG. The children shouldnt be there, they werent to know about the kids. but it was an unmarked van, no red cross and it was trying to rescue an insurgent. This is the only war to win, take them out before they take us out.
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Male 3,482
I might use up a few posts, but I`m just gonna address issues I see with the replies as I find them, reading from the first posts up.

"People without weapons can`t kill you, therefore I would say shooting them is out of line."

They looked like they had weapons, and more than one actually did.

"they still definitely shouldn`t (in my opinion) have fired until hostile actions were made."

So, what, now we`re supposed to wait until that RPG has a round in the chopper before we can fight back? When someone looks like they have weapons in a war zone, and they aren`t our soldiers, then they are assumed to be the enemy. What are we supposed to do, ask them politely if they`re terrorists?

"still so they saw one guy they thought looked ready to shoot and so they open fired on a bunch of people standing casually by a building?"

Could none of those people have been concealing weapons? Standing casually is a cover-up
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Male 73
Looked like guys with AK`s and RPG`s to me, if your a journalist you probably shouldn`t be in a war zone with the enemy or people that look like the enemy... just sayin
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Male 893
@Nidonemo
If it breaks the rules then I accept that and I`ll delete it myself. (By the way it`s a stupid rule).

@auburnjunky
[quote]We aren`t trying to deliver democracy. We are trying to liberate a people from a regime that supports terrorism and supresses it`s own people.[/quote]
I have heard Bush say multiple times that we are there to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq, but even if that wasn`t the case it wouldn`t matter. Either way the state cannot exist on force alone.

@Oystah
[quote]And it`s stupid.[/quote]
I expect comments like that from 13-17 year olds. I did not expect it from a 41 year old. This message is from a 19 year old adult to a 41 year old adult.
GROW UP!!
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Male 117
"...but for some reason the world thinks the American Military is perfect or all seeing or something."

No, we think they`re terrible and this is just another example of that. Yes, i know in the heat of the moment that people can make the wrong decision, but come the f*** on, this was way out of line...
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Male 10,338
Later ferdyfred.
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Male 13,630
Ho hum, g`nite IAB, its been a goodly time, I need bed now, Ni nite ya`ll
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Male 10,338
@anarchistgod:

"Not to mention that none of you seem to realize that you can`t deliver democracy though the barrel of a gun!"

We are not a democracy. We aren`t trying to deliver democracy. We are trying to liberate a people from a regime that supports terrorism and supresses it`s own people.
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Male 9,305
"You know what`s inappropriate? Censoring other people."

You are more than welcome to express your views and opinions here. We are not allowed to have swastikas in the avatars so I`m simply going with that as we are not allowed to have that kind of thing anywhere. I`m all for everyone expressing their viewpoints, but we have rules on picture content. Swastikas are not allowed in picture content, so I`m just going with that rule here. If fancylad or higher wants to allow it they can, and tell me to cease, but until then I`m following modship. Nothing personal dude.
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Male 10,338
Nighty night anarchistgod.

Right or wrong, he told you not to.

I know from experience, if the mods here tell you to do something, you better damn well listen.

I say, perma-ban for the insolence!
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Male 177
Im not done watching the vid yet, but despite all the whining this vid is putting up, theres still one basic rule about war:

1. Are they armed?
2. Are they your guys?

If the answers are Yes and No respectively, theyre fair game. poo happens during war, but for some reason the world thinks the American Military is perfect or all seeing or something.
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Male 13,630
AnarchistGod - For attention, or just to rile folx?
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Female 4,039
@AnarchistGod - maybe he took it off cuz if messes up the whole page. And it`s stupid.
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Male 10,338
@jabbox:

"nice" is a short word said in the heat of a tense situation to describe affirmative praise by the military.

It`s faster, and easier to say in the think of things than: "Well done lieutenant! You executed that manuver very efficiently and should be herefore commended by me, your superior!"
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Male 13,630
canusuck - I guess you can
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Male 807
My cats breath smells like cat food-well it does!!!
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Male 250
"nice."
WTF, guy? Nice is how you describe that?
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Male 367
Their relaxed tone and diction make them sound like soldiers playing Mod Warfare or something, not fighting an actual battle.
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Male 17
@madest

a fact without firm proof isn`t a fact at all, thats the problem. There are questions about things that do not adhere. And there is truth everywhere..if you can see it through all the lies.
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Male 807
My cats breath smells like cat food
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Male 13,630
At the end, as Ive said afore, its war, its nasty, its you or them, thats pretty much the bottom line, if you have the means to make it ``them`` you use it,if its right or not, at the moment of conflict you enter `self preservation`
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Male 10,338
Oh God. Damnit Krenmu. You made Madest and I agree!

Why did you do that?!
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Male 7,378
@kremnu,
How is ignoring facts and surfing webpages supposed to reveal conspiracies? You do exactly what the stupid people do and you call it "research".
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Male 10,338
@Krenmu:

Okay.
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Male 17
@auburn

once again you read much into my words that was never stated..I never stated 9/11 as a source, nor am I referring to it currently in any way shape or form...many people use it as a platform to attempt to debunk theorists or raise public ire against us, however you are simply deflecting the fact that my posts have merit, and no one wishes to see that..I will no longer waste my time trying to get people to actually find the truth for themselves as all it has resulted in is assumptions of what I am referring to with no basis.
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Male 10,338
"War is the province of chance. In no other sphere of human activity must such a margin be left for this intruder. It increases the uncertainty of every circumstance and deranges the course of events."
- Karl von Clausewitz
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Male 418
There is a peace that can only be found on the other side of war.
- Oscar wild

so all the hippies can shut their LSD holes
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Male 10,338
@Krenmu:

Dude, WTC was Al Qaeda. Plain and simple. They have publically taken responsibility, and had celebrations in the streets.

Give it a rest.
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Female 4,039
@Madest - after 9/11 Americans were so turned inside out that they couldn`t even go into a 7-Eleven without wanting to smash the clerk`s face in and light the place on fire. This country was in shock and demanded retaliation and records of people joined the military to do so. Unfortunately, we all know how dismally GW handled that. As far as Obama goes, he ran on a platform of bringing our troops home and ending this war - well, nice idea, he brought some troops out of Iraq all right, but he stuck them in Afghanistan. IMO, they are both incompetent and Obama more so for strutting around like he`s some kind of hollywood celebrity wanting to make history with his healthcare reform instead of getting something important - or anything for that matter - on his endless agenda of stupidness completed.
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Male 10,338
WMD was not a lie, it was misinformation.

We suspected Iraq (Sadaam) had WMD`s. He had a history of using them. We had faulty intelligence as to their whereabouts.

WMD`s were not the focus of the initial Iraq war. The focus was deposing the government that was a public supporter of Al Qaeda and halting the country`s ability to offer safe haven/training to that group.

Bush (what an idiot) said that if you sympathize/harbor terrorists, you will be attacked. Congress agreed, and the rest is history.
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Male 17
@madest

you assume those are the topics I`m referring to, and you also assume I am an average theorist..I fear I am not, on both counts. I will not point you in any specific direction nor will I continue to throw logic into this abyss. I will simply state..for those who wish to find the truth, they must first do the research and discover it for themselves, it will not fall in your lap, nor will it be broadcast over any form of news media.
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Male 10,338
@chinezegirl:

It`s okay to debate and stand up for what you believe in. There are things to remember though.

Bring facts, and don`t blindly argue a point without knowing what you are talking about.

Also, if your opinion is just lame, and has no merit whatsoever, best to keep it to yourself. You would just be trolling at that point.

You did good. I applaud your enthusiasm. Feel free to continue any discussion that you think your opinion is warranted in.

Welcome to IAB.
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Male 7,378
Krenmu, Our government is not smart enough to pull off the conspiracies you cite. They did attempt a conspiracy with the "9/11 ties" and "WMD`s" Both those lies were exposed within the first few months of the war.
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Male 234
Chinezegirl they surround themselves with women and children so poo like this would happen. Yes it is bad that it happened but you are missing the point, its not the fault of the US soldiers, its their own dumb ass fault.

Tell me this, you have 2 kids in your van, and you witness a gun fight 900 yards from you. Where you see a airplane shooting at people with weapons. Are you going to drive up to people who just got blown to bits and start gathering bodies and weapons? Any sane person who cared for their well being as well as the well being of their children, would say no. So clearly these people are not sane. It`s their fault for putting those kids in that position, not the US soldiers.
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Male 13,630
Nidonemo - Got ya, *tips bowler hat*
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Male 13,630
Chinezegirl - Well thank you for your views, you carry on, I can understand them, and have a great time on IAB ok??
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Male 9,305
"Nidonemo- "crap like this"?? as in the pic, or the discussion??"

Thick, hot topic debates. I`m not watching the video, I`m just modding the forum.
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Male 351
@ferdyfred: He was referring to the pic.

@madest: We are? I have not met someone who thinks that we should kill innocent civilians "brown" or not.
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Male 78
Call of Duty :Collateral Warfare and this is quite old i mean i saw this video 2 days ago...
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Male 893

[quote]AnarchistGod- That is disgusting. I have never encountered anything i feel guilty about laughing at, until now.[/quote]
My work here is done.
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Male 17
@madest

the problem is, noone is willing to do the research. The information is not "Conspiracy" its fact. Proven time and time again. If people would stop blindly following and begin to ask questions, we would not be in this current situation of sacrificing countless liberties in favor of "Additional security." So correct, you shouldn`t believe me, however..you should take the time to look these issues up for yourself rather than just claiming it doesn`t matter.
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Male 10,338
@znaught:

Unfortunately, you are right, but he also had 65% of the popular vote as well....

...and 65% of popular voters have red marks from kicking their own asses right about now hehehe.
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Female 8
@ZNaught, auburnjunky, ferdyfred

I see your point, but some how I don`t think it`s likely!

Well, it`s been fun submitting my first posts on such a light topic, but from now on I think I try to keep my comments to things like cute cat pictures or something.

Clearly, you`ll keep on believing what you think and i`ll keep thinking what I think, but that`s ok, I think we all had valid points, and nothing like this is ever clear cut.

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Male 351
@auburnjunky: No, he won by the electoral college. Voting on election day does little and is more of a "feel good" vote.
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Male 10,338
That pic was funny though Nidonemo. :)

I dunno Krenmu. Just the video I see on MSNBC and ABC NEWS (see what I did there?) that show thousands of Iraqi/Afghani citizens kissing and hugging our servicemen after major battles, because they WANT FREEDOM!
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Male 7,378
Krenmu,
I`m no Jessee Ventura. Conspiracy theorists bore me. 9/11 was not an inside job and George Bush was not smart enough to allow OBL to go free for ulterior war motives. We are a country of uneducated dolts who don`t care about brown people being killed.
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Male 13,630
Nidonemo- ``crap like this``?? as in the pic, or the discussion??
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Male 9,305
Anarchist, seriously, knock it off. It`s hard enough modding crap like this without you posting nasty pics to rouse them up even more. One more and it`s a temp.
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Male 17
@auburnjunky

And who is telling you this?, I find many of the media sources are quite biased and in favor of supporting the government in fear of regulations or sanctions. So rather than reporting the truth..they bias, or spin it their way..or outright lie. I`m sure some of them DO want us there..but I wouldn`t be so bold as to say the majority.