Atheists Handing Out Pamphlets At Public Schools

Submitted by: Bandit666 7 years ago in
http://www.cphpost.dk/news/national/88-national/48670-atheists-target-commercial-confirmations.html

Pamphlets provided to schools by athiest organisation encouraging students to drop religious confirmation ceremony.
There are 188 comments:
Male 12,138
[quote]Here`s my opinion: HYPROCRACY.[/quote]
Hate to be the Grammar Nazi, I really do, but it`s hypocrisy.
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Male 1,013
Truth is being taught these days? Sweet!
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Female 1,963
Well if you actually read the article, it says that the intention is that when they get handed out leaflets from the local church, they also get an atheist leaflet. I feel that there is nothing wrong with that. And that they were given to the managers of the school, who could then choose whether or not to give out the leaflets.
Completely misleading title.
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Male 716
Here`s my opinion:

HYPROCRACY.

If religious information can`t be given out in schools, then information specifically pertaining to lack of religion should also be banned.

I`m not specifically referring to this case, but how society works in general.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Now I`m not fresh on my atheism, but don`t they believe in no life after death and that once you die that`s it?[/quote]

Usually, but not necessarily. An areligious afterlife is possible.

[quote]If that`s the case, then why try and drag others who are completely happy with their lives into something with no benefits. This isn`t an attack on atheism, I`m just curious why do you do it?[/quote]

Things would probably be better if people cared more about the real world. If this is the only life we all have, it`s a lot more important. If it`s just a brief visit with the real life coming afterwards and dependent on how obedient to are to <insert deity here>, then this life is less important than a brief stop to pee on a long journey.

But most atheists don`t, anyway. This group was offering an alternative to the prevailing coercion, which is pretty much the opposite of what you describe.
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Male 12,365
[quote]There may be a twist to the decision of the school not to hand out the fliers. They stated according to the article that they wouldn`t hand out fliers from scientology or Jehovah`s Witnesses. I don`t know if they have religious education. If they do, the lutheran church is favored which wouldn`t be nice.[/quote]

The Lutheran church is favoured. That`s why the leaflets were made.
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Male 12,365
[quote]No, We are all God`s children. I`m no more important than any other.[/quote]

That`s nice...but it has nothing to do with what I said.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Angilion: I`ve had many in depth discussions with Atheists, In person, And have seen the fear. The fear that God may exist, The hatred of Christians just for displaying a cross or carrying a bible.[/quote]

You see a reflection of yourself. Your posts make it clear that the fear is yours, not theirs.
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Male 205
quaintness: "Public schools are funded by public money via the state via taxes. Separation of church and state, anyone?"
I don`t know how denmark handles separation of church and state but here in germany the state collects tax for the big christian churches. We have religious education in primary school. Someone mentioned brainwashing. It`s not like brainwashing, they don`t have to. It`s just that you don`t know anything else but the predominant religion. I think I read the term atheist first when I was 13 or 14 (reading about Nietzsche, personal interest, not at school).
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Male 2,148
quaintness: That relates more to treating church equally. It doesn`t really demand that no pamphlets are handed out, but it`s all or none.

Also, this is Copenhagen. Far outside the United States, so maybe the rules don`t apply the same way.
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Male 1,086
Public schools are funded by public money via the state via taxes. Separation of church and state, anyone?
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Male 4
Ah, those crazy athiests. What will they get up to next.
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Female 1,677
"...I`m going to get everything I can from it.

What`s the point of acquiring things when you can`t take them with you ? Do you require those things for your happiness ? Do you measure your life`s success by having them ? "

This is way late, but I just want to point out I didn`t mean materially. I meant I was going to live life the way I wanted and in the best way I can surrounded by great people. It`s odd you assumed I just meant in terms of material wealth.
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Male 2,148
This article can only be debatable if the school DOES pass out material from the majority religion there.

They said they throw out Atheism, Jehovah`s Witness, and Scientology pamphlets, but said nothing about what they do with Lutheran pamphlets, which the comments section seems to agree is most prevalent.
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Male 2,148
Many people are in a position where the option of atheism doesn`t seem to exist. That`s why the whole atheism movement has to be so proactive. The awareness doesn`t seem to exist for atheism the way it does for Christianity.

This explains why atheists talk about God more than Christians do. It`s why our `fanaticism` can be misconstrued as hatred for Christians or for God himself.

Richard Dawkins explained it better than I can in his book, but essentially we have to talk more because atheism is a more foreign concept to basically everyone than Christianity is.
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Male 5,189
Woo! Lol. Seems like the same thing. Both sides need to come up with new material so I have something to read. :P
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Male 25,417
Yay more IAB religious debates!
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Male 4,680
I know many Christians who are fine with me being an atheist. I`m fine with them being Christians.

Just saying.
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Female 48
I am not so sure why this is so debatable. The schools in Copenhagen receive pamphlets from various religious groups besides the atheist organization. The school can also choose to pass them out. So what`s the fuss? Sounds pretty freaking fair to me.
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Male 176
@Baalthazaq
While I do agree with you science is to be used as a tool, I disagree with your use of the word "faith" to describe scientific knowledge. I understand that there may never be full knowledge of particular subject, we can make assumptions on future events based on confirmed past experiences.

I enjoy reading your views. You seem to have some good arguments for your beliefs.
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Female 385
[quote]Atheists talk about God more than most Christians do, Most of them are obsessed with squashing people`s belief.[/quote]

You are right in that many atheists talk about god frequently. I can also find historians who can talk at great length about the beliefs of ancient Greece, or the druids. And you are even correct in that many atheists have a passion about spreading the ideas of reason, and seeing the downfall of primitive, demonstrably fallacious belief systems.

[quote]Atheist proselytizing is harsher than any other religious sect I`ve encountered, With maybe one exception Scientology.[/quote]

Ah yes. Billboards that say "Don`t believe in god? You`re not alone." It is such a harsh message. One could call it downright threatening. It`s as if those heartless, immoral atheists want to kill you for not thinking the same things they do.

Oh, wait. It`s YOUR holy book that says to kill nonbelievers and that they`ll be tortured for eternity
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Female 385
[quote]I`ve had many in depth discussions with Atheists, In person, And have seen the fear. The fear that God may exist, The hatred of Christians just for displaying a cross or carrying a bible.[/quote]

I highly doubt this. Fear of god is purely in the realm of the religious mind. An atheist knows there is nothing to fear. Also, bemusement or disdain is not the same as hatred. For instance, while I would not want to pick up a slug, it is not hatred towards the slug that causes me to avoid it.

[quote]For someone that doesn`t believe in God, It`s not rational to hate something that doesn`t exist or people that believe.[/quote]

I think you`ll find most people have fictional characters they hate. Besides, I know of no atheist who hates your God directly. Rather, they hate the image of it presented in your Bible, they hate the atrocities caused by continued belief in his existence.
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Male 500
fknloser, free your mind you are nearly there! Just get rid of the deception that any supreme-being exists and you will enter the ranks of the fullt evolved modern free-thinking humanitarian human being. Welcome! you don`t have to go to church to reinforce your indoctrination, you don`t have to kill anybody and you don`t have to force anyone to accept your beliefs as their own (although I like to, as I hate to see people waste their lives).
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Male 500
@ elkingo

"It is annoying. It makes Christians look like morons."

But they not only believe in a fictional character in a way that can waste the best parts of their lives, they are committed to forcing everyone else to believe in it and follow the stupid "laws" written in it`s name. Bit moronic don`t you think?


"You can`t talk about your beliefs without bringing up the Christian God?"

Nothing personal, Allah, Thor, Anubis, Satan, Zeuss, all fictional as well, and their believers are all either vitims or morons too. OK?
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Male 418
i see nothing wrong here, i am not an athiest, but giving people information on all subjects and letting them choose is true freedom. Censoring, hiding, or just not including all the facts and choices is extremely wrong and damaging. Churches want and need people and money. They don`t believe in free will, only control of their people
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Male 2,528
"‘The point is, that if and when management hand out material from the local priest then they could hand this out as well, so the young people can consider if they want the one or the other,’ said Jesper Vind, the chairman for the Atheist Society."

Exactly. Because until kids are given information on Atheism, they never realize that they actually have a choice whether to believe or not. MORONS!!!

Everyone is born into this world a non believer, which means that no one really needs information on Atheism.
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Female 3,574
I guess it`s alright to send them, but I still strongly disagree that any public school (private would be another story) should hand out something like that. I would be upset if the school *did* decide to hand them out.

Let`s say I had a teenage child who went to a public school and he came home someday with a pamphlet promoting Catholicism. I would be very upset because this would show that the school is taking sides, and I believe that a public school (which is publically run) should be neutral on topics such as religion and politics.
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Male 205
pui: "I read the article. I looked up "confirmation" on wiki because I didn`t know the custom. Looks like catholics practice it too, according to that."

Oops - you are right. In english there seems to be no distinction between german Kommunion and Konfirmation.
otoh, lutherian is the main church in denmark as is said in the article.
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Male 205
pui: "I don`t think anything like that should be in a public school, a place of learning and a place that should be neutral. I would say the same about pamphlets arguing for the religious ceremony as well."
I agree with you.

Can you agree to my point of view that is OK to send those pamphlets to the schools since they aren`t forced to present them to their students and they may have a different opinion on what to hand out.
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Female 3,574
I read the article. I looked up "confirmation" on wiki because I didn`t know the custom. Looks like catholics practice it too, according to that.

I don`t think anything like that should be in a public school, a place of learning and a place that should be neutral. I would say the same about pamphlets arguing for the religious ceremony as well.
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Male 205
pui: "Yeah, nothing like that should be handed out in a public school. Period."

Do you have arguments for your opinion? Or arguments against my reasoning?

"I find it crazy how much money Catholics spend on being "confirmed" though lol."

Have you read the article? Catholics have communion. Lutherians have confirmation.
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Female 3,574
[quote]People who are happy with their religion are just fine as long as their happiness doesn`t make other people miserable.[/quote]
People who are happy with being atheist are just fine as long as their happiness doesn`t make other people miserable. Don`t preach to me, I don`t preach to you.
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Male 205
Lblaxplaya20: "Now I`m not fresh on my atheism, but don`t they believe in no life after death and that once you die that`s it? If that`s the case, then why try and drag others who are completely happy with their lives into something with no benefits. This isn`t an attack on atheism, I`m just curious why do you do it?"
First, I`m not an atheist, I`m an agnostic, but the positions are similar enough that I may answer that.
Not believing in an afterlife is not inherent to atheism, but it`s common with atheists.
I (and most atheists) believe in life _before_ death and we believe that this life should be as pleasant to everybody as possible. People who are happy with their religion are just fine as long as their happiness doesn`t make other people miserable. To people who aren`t happy with their religion we try to provide insight into alternatives. People who make others lives miserable with their religion we try to stop.
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Female 3,574
Yeah, nothing like that should be handed out in a public school. Period.

I find it crazy how much money Catholics spend on being "confirmed" though lol.
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Male 50
"I BELIEVE MY PERSONAL CONVICTIONS ARE THE ONLY TRUTH. ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE IS SIMPLY RETARDED."

Wow... to be so young and have truth based off of YOUR personal convictions. That`s impressive! I wonder what people did before you was born. Was there no truth?
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Male 477
CrakrJack. I`d say you aren`t talking to real atheists then. You`re talking to skeptical agnostics.
I am an Anti-Theist. I don`t hate god. I can`t hate something that I don`t think exists. What I can hate, however, is this the damage caused by other people`s belief. Religion is what you get when you take mythology seriously. I regard judaism, christianity, and islam in the same way i do the Greeks, romans, hindu, egyptians, native americans, aztecs, mayans, norse, celtic, taoists, shinto, etc. Hence that saying "we`re all atheists, I just go one god farther than you."
I can`t fear or hate something i don`t believe in. If I`m wrong, so be it. But I also can`t conceive how an all loving, benevolent creator would torture me for an eternity for simply using the brain he gave me to question his existence. If he loves me half as much as my mother does, he wouldn`t send me to Hell - a place invented by men. I know too much about mythological history to believe such a place
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Male 422
I`m not going to kinder the already large flame going around on this topic, but i will say one thing;
Now I`m not fresh on my atheism, but don`t they believe in no life after death and that once you die that`s it? If that`s the case, then why try and drag others who are completely happy with their lives into something with no benefits. This isn`t an attack on atheism, I`m just curious why do you do it?
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Male 5,620
I think I now understand the problems with religion and faith in general. This post has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity, yet almost everyone who has something to say, has to drag Christian based topics into it.

It is annoying. It makes Christians look like morons. I have also noted that it looks as if for the most part that the same occurs from atheists.
You can`t talk about your beliefs without bringing up the Christian God?

I think now, I understand why people get so angry, and why people resort to making fun. It is a way to get back at the people who are always on about God. The bad thing: It isn`t just Christians that are banging on about God and Jesus all the time.. in a way some of the more extreme atheists are witnessing also.
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Male 205
There may be a twist to the decision of the school not to hand out the fliers. They stated according to the article that they wouldn`t hand out fliers from scientology or Jehovah`s Witnesses. I don`t know if they have religious education. If they do, the lutheran church is favored which wouldn`t be nice.
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Male 205
Ahh, religious discussion: so many aspects, so many people not differentiating. So many straw men getting hit by both sides, poor straw men.
And nobody getting anywhere `cause every time a conclusion comes near that one side wouldn`t favor, the topic is changed.
It doesn`t help that there is no possible way to logically decide what is right (good) and what is wrong (evil). Good and evil are things of a common agreement.
I think there are some things we may agree upon:
- Knowledge isn`t inherently evil.
- Forcing someone isn`t a good thing, may be necessary sometimes but should be avoided when possible.
- Equal rights are good.

The denmark atheists wanted to provide knowledge, not bad.
They send their fliers to the school board to decide whether they should be handed to the students. Not forcing, therefor good.
One school decided not to hand them out because they wouldn`t do it with fliers from scientology.
Equal rights, good thing.
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Male 265
@Keegan
"I was terrible for me, I felt as though I we fighting a constant battle with my own mind (you know, the mind God gave me). I simply couldn`t accept the ridiculous claims of the bible. I wondered why God had burdened be with this lack of faith. Why was it so hard for me? Why would he make me like this?

When I finally accepted the fact that he just doesn`t exist I felt a massive Spiritual awakening. A weight had been lifted off of me, and I finally felt at peace. "

Oddly enough, I was in the same place you were when I was in college. I grew up in the church and questioned weather I believed in God because I was brainwashed or what. Looking inward solved nothing. I finally had to sit down and essentially tell God that I needed some sort of sign. To make a long story short, I did get what I needed in a pretty spectacular Lifetime channel sort of way and I felt a lot of peace after that.

I still struggle in my faith, but for me, I know
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Male 302
When will people realise that pamphlets about religion don`t work. Helping you choose chinese food, yes, helping you choose a place to go on holiday, maybe, helping you choose a way of life, NO!
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Male 1,240
-_- This is just as bad as when religious people hand out pamphlets at something inherently non-religious.
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Male 17,512
[quote]You want to believe you`re important because someone far more powerful made you so.[/quote]

No, We are all God`s children. I`m no more important than any other. Christianity is not about being self-righteous or self-important, If you`ve met Christians like that I apologize for their arrogance. God doesn`t want Christians to just be self-serving, He wants us to sacrifice and help others as he has helped us.

The greatest commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all your heart. The second is like unto the first, Love thy neighbor as you love yourself.

Christians that love God repay him by loving and helping their neighbors, Not acting high and mighty.
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Male 17,512
Angilion: I`ve had many in depth discussions with Atheists, In person, And have seen the fear. The fear that God may exist, The hatred of Christians just for displaying a cross or carrying a bible.

For someone that doesn`t believe in God, It`s not rational to hate something that doesn`t exist or people that believe.

Atheists talk about God more than most Christians do, Most of them are obsessed with squashing people`s belief.

Atheist proselytizing is harsher than any other religious sect I`ve encountered, With maybe one exception Scientology.
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Male 542
I BELIEVE MY PERSONAL CONVICTIONS ARE THE ONLY TRUTH. ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE IS SIMPLY RETARDED.
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Male 985
My opinion:
I dont belive in any religious, but i think its good for people to have one. IT seems to control people at times.
Also i HATE HATE HATE religions shoving there crap down my throat! Even if its atheism
Confusing amirite?
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Male 162
"I 1000000000000000000000000000%

support this."

-Why? This makes us athiests look as bad as the a$$hole christians who knock on your door to recruit you, or who hand out leaflets in city centres to attempt to convert people... DON`T DRAG US DOWN TO THIER LEVEL!!!!!!
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Male 12,365
[quote]Knowing we are the only sentient beings, In an amazing world full of every thing we need, Where everyplace else we`ve discovered is hostile to life. I believe this uniqueness is stunning evidence that God created us.[/quote]

You want to believe you`re important because someone far more powerful made you so.

I know I`m important because I am a human, the pinnacle of billions of years of evolution, the most advanced form of life ever known.

Of course the world we live on contains everything we need. If it didn`t, we wouldn`t be here to say so, would we? You`re making an argument that is so silly it was hardly worth debunking the first time, let alone the millionth or more.

"Everyplace else we`ve discovered" amounts to a billionth of hardly anywhere. In all the variation of the universe, it`s hardly surprising we haven`t found another match yet.

You have faith. You look silly when you try to pass it off as reason.
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Male 230
I 1000000000000000000000000000%

support this.
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Male 12,365
[quote]God is neither cruel or demanding,[/quote]

You obviously haven`t read your own holy book. Or my post. I even put a note at the bottom of it. Why didn`t you read it?

[quote]Having no belief in God leaves you stripped of hope, having no hope leads to fear of failure. To an atheist events happen randomly and that leads to fear of what may happen next. To an atheist there is no afterlife, The life you have is all you have and that leads to fear of death.

Fear kills people`s minds, It leads to hate and suffering. I want no part of that, I`ll keep my belief in God instead.[/quote]

You really don`t have a clue, do you? Is your faith so weak you have to make up ridiculous propaganda about "the other" in order to cause yourself to fear it? Is atheism so tempting to you that you must make ludicrously false statements about it to make you fear it? Those explanations make sense, unlike your post.
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Male 496
and please forgive ma grammars. i used to finger the keybuttons good but i lost
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Male 496
these pamphlets are an alternative to religious convention, not imposing-chunkymonkie

also, i`ve been chewing on atheism vs agnostic for some time now; for what it`s worth i`ve found atheism to be based as much in belief as any religion. the nature of spirituality is that we would have no way to prove it if it were true. there would be no way to measure something that exists on a plane outside of our own perception. it is a choice to believe that the absence of evidence is also the evidence of absence.

alls i`m saying that there is no more proof that god does not exist than there is that he/she does, so don`t pretend like your belief is based more in science than someone else...

so everyone just stop trying to impress and drating get along
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Male 17,512
Boadicea: Was just asking, I`ve met way to many Atheists that believe in a socialist utopia with no religion, countries, etc..

Glad to hear you aren`t one of them.

[quote] If this is all there is... [/quote]
Does this mean you believe that some form of afterlife is possible ?
[quote] ...I`m going to get everything I can from it.[/quote] What`s the point of acquiring things when you can`t take them with you ? Do you require those things for your happiness ? Do you measure your life`s success by having them ?

I prefer to gather up my treasures in Heaven, Where they will not rot, rust, or get lost.
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Male 17,512
Keegan31: God tests us all.

[quote]"I spent a great deal of my life trying to convince myself that God was real"[/quote]

Knowing we are the only sentient beings, In an amazing world full of every thing we need, Where everyplace else we`ve discovered is hostile to life. I believe this uniqueness is stunning evidence that God created us.

[quote]"I was terrible for me, I felt as though I we fighting a constant battle with my own mind."[/quote]

You aren`t the only Christian that`s had doubts, All I can say is that blaming God for your lack of faith was a mistake. I hope one of these days you will shown something in your life that will renew your faith. God doesn`t make us to suffer, Our own sin does that.
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Male 472
Can`t we just all admit that religion debates are stupid. Atheist or theist, the internet will not fix your prejudices towards other peoples faiths.

(the Atheists are right anyways, no argument)
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Female 1,199
Whoa Baal is a mod now. O_O Good job!
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Male 670
im not sure if this had been said already, but these atheists are imposing their beliefs and ideas upon us. a lot of you guys complain about how christians are always preaching to you, but you dont seem to consider the fact that some of you are the non believing equivalent of a christian.
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Male 4,546
Also, incidentally, don`t say you believe in Science.

This is sortof what I mean when I called Atheism a religion. You should not be "believing in science" any more than you believe in a hammer.

It is a tool to get things done. A methodology. An epistemology.

When you make it something you follow, rather than use, it becomes a religion. It may be convenient to make arguments on internet forums by equating the two, however you will hurt science as much as you hurt religion in the process.

Nobody wins from this. You will turn as many people away from Science by making them mutually exclusive as you will turn from religion.

It makes it seem like Atheism (promoting your world view) is more important to you than all the knowledge, reason, enlightenment, progress, etc that you preach.
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Male 4,546
Pat:
Sorry I should have included you in the first post. It gives an elaboration on what faith is in point 2, how it differs from demanding proof, etc.

As for your begged question:
"I am on a much firmer soil when I believe in science."
Beg: Theists aren`t into science.

Antimatter. Multiverse. String Theory. Higgs-Boson. Time Travel. Your table is not the pinnacle of Scientific thought.

Science deals in questions not just proven answers. This Is Awesome.

Do I believe in the Higgs-Boson? Yes.
Could I be wrong? Sure.
Why is that? We have evidence, not proof.

Also your table isn`t solid, it is >99% nothing. Atomic radius vs Nuclear Radius.
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Male 4,546
(Also, as a side note, I don`t think Crakr is invoking string theory. I think Crakr is referring to the argument that God might actually be 3D instead of a human`s 4D (including time).

Effectively God exists across all of the 4D simultaneously, we exist at a single point on that line at any given time.

As such we are the bristles on a paintbrush, we see individually the dot we`re painting, and the line we`ve traveled.

God sees the painting.

Though generally speaking, I don`t want to go into free will.)
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Male 4,546
Now, as for your assumptions you don`t have:

Begging the question:
1) "If everyone had psychotic beliefs".
Beg: Derogatory opinion of belief.
2) "how side-tracked we`ve been from human progress because of religious faith"
Beg: Side tracking has occurred at all.
3) "I`m not an equal to anyone who is closed-minded."
Beg: Closed minded theists.


You "don`t have any notions toward theism" huh? You cannot even post a 1000 character post without your assumptions bursting out the seams.
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Male 4,546
Sigh Sprinkz, just sigh.

1) Religion, is the reason you have experimental methods (including the education and literacy responsible for it, and the motivations behind it), nevermind an anathema to it.

2) Faith in particular, the ability to draw conclusions from EVIDENCE, WITHOUT proof, is the reason for all progress beyond Descartes` "Cogito Ergo Sum". According to Bertrand Russel, we wouldn`t even be beyond "Cogito".

3) "Scientists do not have faith".
No, they do. They just do.
The insulting meaning you have ascribed to it to tag those who disagree with you? No.
Actual faith? Absolutely.

You don`t want to accept faith can mean anything but your definition, and yet can`t bear to have it applied to someone you agree with.
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Male 820
woo
*High fives lionhart*
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Male 208
I still think that ancient Greece and Rome had it right.
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Male 8,302
Well why the hell not? What`s Religious Freedom if its not the right of BOTH sides to present their case?
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Male 2,306
"He`s not a `Man`, He doesn`t `Live` in the sky, and he already knows what you will do, He doesn`t have to `watch`.

Just because we perceive time as going forward consistently, It doesn`t mean God sees things that way. If God is living in other dimensions (that we can`t see) Then it`s likely that `time` ,To him, Is much simpler and could be seen all at once. That`s the problem with human perception it`s limited to what we can sense. God is omniscient he senses everything that we can`t and the universe likely looks very different to him than it does for us."

As interesting as that is, and since you are seemingly employing string theory into your god hypothesis, has it ever occurred to you that we may be some insignificant offshoot of his grand plan. Perhaps as important and loved as the pebbles of our beaches?

Why would a God care about a fourth dimensional being like ourselves when there are over 10 dimensions?
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Male 2,306
"I am merely pointing out some similarities. You are offended because of the many notions you hold towards Theism, and refuse to let them go."

I don`t have any notions toward theism except that it is useless, and there are better ways to achieve inner peace, happiness, and guidance. And certainly if people knew that this is the only life they will ever get they may learn to appreciate other lives. Because let`s face it, a lot of our murderers, killers, thieves, etc...they are of `religious values`. It certainly doesn`t seem to be a good deterrent.

"I`m not calling you bad, I`m calling you equals. If this offends you, you`re the one being offensive.

You`re the one who doesn`t feel they should dare START a debate on equal footing, you should have a head start."

I`m not an equal to anyone who is closed-minded. I refuse to be called an equal to anyone who is closed-minded too. If someone could prove God`s existence, I would concede im
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Male 2,306
"Do you think it likely that I would use faith in a way that suggests people who have faith are bad/wrong/unintelligent/just going on hunches/any other derogatory term?"

I think that would be appropriate. If people all had random, almost psychotic beliefs it would be more dangerous--or at least appear as dangerous as it really is. We do not even know how side-tracked we`ve been from human progress because of religious faith. Faith is the bane of epistemology.

"When I say (as I have in the past) that Atheism today resembles a religion, when I myself follow a religion, why think I have somehow intended to insult you?"

No, you didn`t insult me at all. You are misusing the term the same way I would be misusing the sacrament by saying it was just some wine and crackers. Even though at least that`s closer to reality than atheism being a religion.


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Male 467
@Pooptart19

Actually I think it would be a good idea to educate these young people on their choices, whether they actually want to commit to this religious ceremony or not.
I`m from Denmark and I know that most of these young people never give it much thought.
That`s not fair to the ceremony or themselves.
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Male 228
@Crakrjak

As someone who was raised christian, I grew up with a massive desire to believe. However, I found myself simply incapable of doing so. I have no faith, that is who I am; it is what you believe God made me to be.

I spent a great deal of my life trying to convince myself that God was real; that the Bible was true. Everyone that I looked up to in my life, every person I respected, all the people who shaped me into the man I am now; were Christians.

I was terrible for me, I felt as though I we fighting a constant battle with my own mind (you know, the mind God gave me). I simply couldn`t accept the ridiculous claims of the bible. I wondered why God had burdened be with this lack of faith. Why was it so hard for me? Why would he make me like this?

When I finally accepted the fact that he just doesn`t exist I felt a massive Spiritual awakening. A weight had been lifted off of me, and I finally felt at peace.

You can have this gift too.
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Male 2,440
From the article:
[quote]‘It’s not the school’s responsibility to send that kind of material around. We also get sent leaflets from Scientologists and Jehovah’s Witnesses which we throw out,’ said Villi Petersen.[/quote]

Damn right. Danish atheist organization fail.
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Male 1,002
I may not believe in god, but I still think proselytizing is no less wrong when done by atheists than when it is done by Christians.
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Female 1,677
I don`t know where Lennon comes into this, but you`re starting to sound insane.

I have hope for a fulfilling life and happiness. I *have* happiness and pleasure right now from loved ones and all the good things in my life. I don`t even know what you`re talking about-- we`re all going to die. Not believing in God doesn`t mean I sit around all day thinking `oh no, I`ll be dead one day`, because what`s the point?

If this is all there is, then I`m going to get everything I can from it. I choose not to waste my time worshipping some dickhole I don`t care about. You believe in it, so you don`t consider it a waste of time. Neither of us is hopeless or living in fear of death. So what`s your problem?
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Male 820
[quote]Then please tell me. What `hope` can an atheist have in anything other than their certain death and disappearance into oblivion. Is it the `hope` that the song `Imagine` by John Lennon will someday come true ?[/quote]

Personally, I have hope and faith that the human race will one day reach into the stars.
That one day, one happy day, other intelligent life will be found. (or find us)
And it is that hope that makes me want to learn.
It is that hope that made me choose to go to college to get an education degree in physics after I graduate high school.
Because if my spreading of the knowledge of physics brings that future closer to reality, by any power I have I will spread that knowledge.
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Male 820
also...,
[quote]I have free will[/quote]
What IS free will? Since the Christian God is considered to be omnipotent, does he not know all your possible choices, as well as the ones you will choose?
If he knows/has known/will know(?) every choice you will ever make in your entire life, has he not predetermined who will be in heaven and who will be in hell?
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Male 17,512
Boadicea: Then please tell me. What `hope` can an atheist have in anything other than their certain death and disappearance into oblivion. Is it the `hope` that the song `Imagine` by John Lennon will someday come true ?

Sorry, But knowing humans as I do, That`s a liberal fantasy. And that fantasy is even more delusional and dangerous than believing in God.
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Male 820
[quote]Having no belief in God leaves you stripped of hope, having no hope leads to fear of failure. To an atheist events happen randomly and that leads to fear of what may happen next. To an atheist there is no afterlife, The life you have is all you have and that leads to fear of death.[/quote]

Never Generalize.
I do not fear death.
I know how lucky I am that my genetic code came up in the great multi-billion year gene roulette.
I am fairly certain that there is no after life; so I live this one up. I learn what I can, I say what I want to say, I try to do good for the planet.
I do not exactly `fear` failure. I `fear` that one day I fail and give up.
Failure is a learning tool.
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Male 17,512
[quote]What is it that makes people so hopeless and alone that they need to have an imaginary friend who will love them unconditionally and forgive all their boo-boos to make them feel better?[/quote]

You seem to be of the belief that Christians are helpless, needy, and delusional. God empowers us, Energizes us, Allows us to persevere no matter what happens. God doesn`t like whiners, He expects us to live up to our potential.

Do you honestly believe that Christians whine and cry to God for forgiveness or money or whatever else all the time ? If so you are the one that is delusional.

Firstly the bible tells us not to pray like that, God already knows what we need and what is best for us. Most times what is best for us is that we not get our wishes, So that we learn, grow, and become better people for it.

"You can`t always get what you want... but if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need"
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Female 1,677
"Having no belief in God leaves you stripped of hope"

No. It does not.
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Male 321
ide rather have them than the bible thumpers that hand out bibles outside after school. haha i rolled a joint with a page from it, it tasted terrible haha
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Male 17,512
[quote]Although being alone is better than suffering the delusion of being the slave of a cruel and demanding imaginary master.[/quote]

God is neither cruel or demanding, But rather comforting and benevolent. I`m neither delusional or a slave, I have free will and freedom of thought as do all Christians.

Having no belief in God leaves you stripped of hope, having no hope leads to fear of failure. To an atheist events happen randomly and that leads to fear of what may happen next. To an atheist there is no afterlife, The life you have is all you have and that leads to fear of death.

Fear kills people`s minds, It leads to hate and suffering. I want no part of that, I`ll keep my belief in God instead.
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Female 1,677
"Hopeless[ness?] and (a)lone[liness?] is all Atheism has to offer, Which is really sad."

If you`re going to look at it like that, then about the equivalent could be said about Xty (or theism whatever):

What is it that makes people so hopeless and alone that they need to have an imaginary friend who will love them unconditionally and forgive all their boo-boos to make them feel better? Atheists don`t need that crutch as they are fine with life the way it is and don`t need to look forward to some magnificent afterlife while tolerating this one. Oh, I`m sorry, is that way off base? I guess I was just being a preumptuous douchebag- I`m sure God will forgive me if I love him enough.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Hopeless and alone is all Atheism has to offer, Which is really sad. [/quote]

If it was true, it might be sad. Fortunately, it isn`t.


Although being alone is better than suffering the delusion of being the slave of a cruel and demanding imaginary master.

N.B. That`s not an expression of my own views. I`m giving CrakrJak an example of what an atheist who was like CrakrJak would say, in the hope that they`ll see how unreasonable they are.
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Male 12,365
[quote]@Angilion
Of course, because we all know that `they believe there is no god` and `they believe there are no gods` are exactly opposite in meaning.[/quote]

Read what I actually wrote, rather than just pluralising what you wrote and replying as if I wrote that. Which I didn`t.

You might also find it useful to look up the terms "strong atheism" and "weak atheism". Not very accurate names, but those are the ones most commonly used.
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Male 17,512
"You feel compelled to "grasp at straws" so to speak because without those straws, there is nothing left to hang on to."

Boy talk about trying to brainwash someone. I feel no compulsions like that, My beliefs are firm and on a solid foundation. I also don`t `hang on`, You speak as if you believe that all Christian`s beliefs are hanging by a thread or are ready to crumble.

The people that really `crumble` are usually those that have lost their belief and then feel hopeless and alone. Hopeless and alone is all Atheism has to offer, Which is really sad.
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Male 848
AHHH!!! More trolls!!!!
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Female 275
@Angilion
Of course, because we all know that `they believe there is no god` and `they believe there are no gods` are exactly opposite in meaning.
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Male 78
@Angilion you got that @ thing wrong and no it was a joke


I was quoting you. When I quote someone, I quote them honestly and in full unless I have good reason not to. I quoted your post honestly and in full. You may think I was wrong to do so. I don`t.

that was also a joke :-P
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Male 12,365
[quote]Nice job nitpicking apart conversations. Have you considered that maybe some of us posted comments that did not have every single word perfectly correct? Or maybe that we tried to keep our comments short and concise instead of going into unnecessary detail?[/quote]

Of course, as both are often true of my posts.

What I hadn`t considered was that you`d be writing something completely different to what you meant. If that`s the case, then replying to your posts will be difficult because if what you write isn`t what you mean, it`s impossible to know what you mean.
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Female 46
patchuoly, i love you.
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Female 275
@Angilion
Nice job nitpicking apart conversations. Have you considered that maybe some of us posted comments that did not have every single word perfectly correct? Or maybe that we tried to keep our comments short and concise instead of going into unnecessary detail?
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Female 53
I don`t get the point. If you`re gonna give options in a pamphlet, give more than one rather than the extreme opposite (and I`m a theist, go Team Jesus!).

Besides, I think this would be put to better use to educate all people in general on atheism and different belief systems.
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Male 12,365
[quote]@Angilion you got that @ thing wrong and no it was a joke[/quote]

I was quoting you. When I quote someone, I quote them honestly and in full unless I have good reason not to. I quoted your post honestly and in full. You may think I was wrong to do so. I don`t.
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Male 12,365
[quote]so if this is "the" reason they want to disprove the dominant religion therefore destroying millions of lives that are dedicated to that religion...huh seems like its for the good of humanity...[/quote]

Are you really that strongly opposed to allowing people a choice? That`s what I was referring to and that`s what the article was about - simply telling people they have a choice, that they don`t have to bow to the coercion into a particular religion.

Do you think that theists are so weak they will be destroyed if there is any alternative to being forced into their religion? Really? You appear to have an extremely low opinion of either theists in general or Christians in particular.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Now HERE`S and article that inspires debate without being insulting, bigoted, intolerant, etc.

"Atheists Handing Out Pamphlets at Public School" ...as opposed to "Atheists Attempt to Show Christians How F*cked Up and Stupid They Are"

BIG Difference[/quote]

Not to any of the theists in this thread.

Which, I think, is telling.
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Male 12,365
[quote]Personally, and this is just IMO, an Agnostic is a person who has started down the path to Atheism, but is afraid to go the rest of the way in case they are wrong.[/quote]

Then you should learn more about agnosticism.

Also, I`m an agnostic atheist. So how can you fit me into your opinion?
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Male 12,365
[quote]God has no gender.
G`night everybody.[/quote]

Which god?

Why not?

I`d argue that an omnipotent deity cannot possibly have a sex, but they could (and probably would) have a gender.

I`d also argue that not all gods are omnipotent.
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Male 78
@Angilion you got that @ thing wrong and no it was a joke
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Male 12,365
[quote]@mmill928 that`s sexist what if a religion has a goddess?[/quote]

I can`t tell if you`re serious or not, but in case you are:

i) `God` is actually the sex-neutral form of the word. You should be able to work this out without any knowledge of etymology from the fact that the feminine form is `god` with a feminine suffix. If `god` was the masculine form, `goddess` would be the androgynous form, literally `malefemale deity`.

ii) It is sexist to consider one sex as the default and the other as a special case, which is what you`re advocating. That`s why the `-ess` feminine modifier is not generally used alone any more. It`s fine if both masculine and feminine forms are used, e.g. actor and actress, but it`s not fine to use the neuter or masculine form as default and the feminine form as a special case, or to use feminine as default and masculine as special case (or complete ignored, which is more common nowadays).
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Male 12,365
[quote]Atheist: one who believes that there is no god.[/quote]

Wrong. An atheist is a person who does not believe there are any deities. Your definition only applies to some atheists.

[quote]Deist: one who believes that there is a god.[/quote]

That would be a theist. A deist is more specific - they believe in an undefined and undefinable deity, in the general concept of a deity but without any of the "revealed truth" that is what would generally be seen as religious beliefs.

[quote]Agnostic: one who doesn`t know whether there is a god or not.[/quote]

In this context, sort of, but more generally a person who doesn`t claim objective knowledge they can`t adequately support. So you could, for example, be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.
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Male 78
@Angilion ii) Atheists are not usually amoral sociopaths and generally favour freedom of choice, so they usually want to make other options available when religion rules. That`s the motive in this case - people are routinely pressured into the dominant religion and atheists are trying to get word out that it isn`t necessary.

so if this is "the" reason they want to disprove the dominant religion therefore destroying millions of lives that are dedicated to that religion...huh seems like its for the good of humanity...
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Male 12,365
[quote]Though religion is the source for much evil in the world, I feel like humiliating a person`s faith is downright cruel.[/quote]

These people are trying to give other people a choice, to let them know that they don`t have to go along with being coerced into a religion.

I don`t see that as being "humiliating a person`s faith".

[quote]Don`t try to ruin someone`s beliefs because you`re simply jealous you can`t have the same faith in some higher power.[/quote]

I`m curious. Are you repeatedly wrong ascribing bad motives to atheists because you believe it or are you doing it because you know that smearing people who don`t agree with you is effective?
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Male 12,365
[quote]Maybe I`m just stupid, but I don`t get why atheists spend time proselytizing. Why do they care what others believe?[/quote]

Off the top of my head I can think of three reasons, which will each apply to varying extents to different atheists:

i) What other people believe has an effect on society, which means it has an effect on atheists.

ii) Atheists are not usually amoral sociopaths and generally favour freedom of choice, so they usually want to make other options available when religion rules. That`s the motive in this case - people are routinely pressured into the dominant religion and atheists are trying to get word out that it isn`t necessary.

iii) They`re actually proselytising, as opposed to (i) or (ii).
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Male 78
@mmill928 then what the hell is the point of the word goddess?
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Female 275
@phantomx9
And I`m just making fun of you for picking on neuter language. The term `god` refers to any sort of deity, not just a `male` one, which doesn`t apply to monotheistic religions since they usually don`t give their deities a gender anyway.
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Female 8
yes I am only assuming that the school is handing out other pamphlets, I apologize if I`m wrong. this is why i don`t post anything.
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Male 78
@mmill928 i Did not call u sexist i called the definition sexist...
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Male 2,372
Now HERE`S and article that inspires debate without being insulting, bigoted, intolerant, etc.

"Atheists Handing Out Pamphlets at Public School" ...as opposed to "Atheists Attempt to Show Christians How F*cked Up and Stupid They Are"

BIG Difference
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Female 275
@lobibaby
Did you read the article at all? The school said that they won`t hand the pamphlets out, just like they don`t hand out the ones from Scientology or Jehovah`s Witnesses.
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Female 275
@PhantomX9 You`re sexist - what if a religion had a hermaphrodite? Or omg a neuter?? Or a horse?!?
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Male 78
@osmandias since when is this topic about Christianity ONLY? there ARE other religions you know...
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Female 8
I posted a quote cause I thought it was funny... My personal thought is that I think that any school that is handing out religious pamphlets to students, shouldn`t just be able to pick and choose which ones. And besides that, schools (I feel) shouldn`t be advertising anything to students, whether it be what`s the best religion, or the new trend in clothing.
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Male 10,440
I don`t see why anyone would be insulted by this article, the school clearly said they didn`t distribute that kind of thing.

And even if they did, that`s still no reason to be insulted. The general public is pretty stupid, mabie not so much in Norway, but still enough for religion to have an overall detrimental effect on a population. Granted people should have the right to believe whatever they want and would be justified in being insulted if someone told them "you can`t follow this religion", they have no reason to be offended if its merely suggested that they shouldn`t follow a religion.

And I say this according to my definition of religion which is "a system of beliefs based in faith", which *almost* everyone can agree on.
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Male 4,745
CrakrJak, how do you know he`s not a man? How do you know he isn`t like us? Because of the Bible? Is everything written in the Bible true?

There seems to be a terrible habit of only believing the parts of the Bible that you want and ignoring the rest of it. This really lends to my Brainwashing theory. You feel compelled to "grasp at straws" so to speak because without those straws, there is nothing left to hang on to.
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Male 205
God has no gender.
G`night everybody.
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Male 4,745
Personally, and this is just IMO, an Agnostic is a person who has started down the path to Atheism, but is afraid to go the rest of the way in case they are wrong.
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Male 78
@mmill928 that`s sexist what if a religion has a goddess?
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Male 205
patchouly: "osmandias, I can respect Agnostics in that they don`t believe in a Christian God, but do believe that there is a higher power out there."
I don`t believe in a higher power. (If I did, I`d call myself a deist)
Agnostics don`t believe. I don`t know if there is a god, I can`t prove or disprove god, so I`m just indifferent on that one. I`m also indifferent on some scientific findings. If they aren`t disputed and are reasonable, I treat them as working hypothesis.
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Female 275
@M3ntal1313
Exactly. What we could be debating is whether or not a Danish school should pass out leaflets from different organizations, but I doubt anyone here knows enough about their laws to comment on that.

@patchouly
Atheist: one who believes that there is no god. Deist: one who believes that there is a god.
Agnostic: one who doesn`t know whether there is a god or not.
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Male 17,512
[quote]Religion has convinced people that there`s an invisible man living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day.[/quote]

He`s not a `Man`, He doesn`t `Live` in the sky, and he already knows what you will do, He doesn`t have to `watch`.

Just because we perceive time as going forward consistently, It doesn`t mean God sees things that way. If God is living in other dimensions (that we can`t see) Then it`s likely that `time` ,To him, Is much simpler and could be seen all at once. That`s the problem with human perception it`s limited to what we can sense. God is omniscient he senses everything that we can`t and the universe likely looks very different to him than it does for us.
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Male 2,345
Athesism is a religion now...welcome to the crazy side of twon atheist!
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Male 78
@Farsidedown well some people are entertained by people argueing with pixels....
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Male 1,610
It`s entertaining if you can argue about it.
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Male 421
@Lobibaby

Oh look, you just copy/pasted a quote without adding a single original thought of your own!

...please at least add something to contribute. Or don`t. I don`t see what a thread like this is doing on IAB. It`s disappointing.

Back to my original point. This shouldn`t have been posted on IAB. It`s not entertaining, and is only adding fuel to the fire that`s been building for the last week.
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Male 448
Why does every post relevant to religion bring in endless arguments irrelevant to the post itself?
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Male 421
"I am starting out on a much firmer soil when I believe in science."

You make it sound like Christians don`t believe in anything science-related. Honestly the only things I (and by "I" I don`t mean ALL Christians) don`t agree with are the scientifically widely accepted theories regarding the origins of the universe and man. That`s not to open up a debate on them, it`s just saying don`t turn this into a science vs religion debate when it`s supposed to be an atheist vs religion debate.
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Male 78
wait im confused is this discussion about religion vs atheists or Christianity vs atheists cause there is a difference...and if its the latter well im sorry for my previous post since i have no reason to be in this topic...
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Male 17,512
"It’s not the school’s responsibility to send that kind of material around. We also get sent leaflets from Scientologists and Jehovah’s Witnesses which we throw out," said Villi Petersen.

American schools don`t hand out leaflets that are produced outside the educational system at all.

We have such a diverse number of churches that `confirmation`, `bah mitzvah`, "baptism", etc.. are not usually such a big deal. I`ve heard of a few individual ones that were, But that`s not the norm.
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Female 8
"Religion easily has the best bullpoo story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money."
~George Carlin
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Male 421
Patchouly- I question my `religion` all the time. I questioned it when I left my high school and realized the majority of them were hypocrites, I questioned it when I saw all the "preachers" on campus that told everyone they were going to hell. I still choose it. Don`t call it compassion when people are calling me a retard for my beliefs. (See what I did there?)

Plus, this article did not cure my boredom. It wasn`t funny or entertaining. It just makes things look worse on here after all the accusations last week that IAB is pro-atheist (unless it`s supposed to make atheists look hypocritical for making fun of Christians for handing out pamphlets all the time).
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Male 4,745
osmandias, I can respect Agnostics in that they don`t believe in a Christian God, but do believe that there is a higher power out there. That I can certainly accept. There is no proof there isn`t a higher power that created us. I personally don`t believe it, but then it comes down to two sides of the same coin.

This is also a good response to Baalthazag`s last post. I am starting out on a much firmer soil when I believe in science. It IS proven. I don`t need to make any leaps of faith to prove that my table is solid.

I`m not like a religious person, asking you to believe in something that can`t be proven.
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Male 205
Church.
Where religion is a theoretical concept, church is the real body. A church has real people, statutes and rules. Where a religion is dangerous a church may be outright evil, depending on the people who run that church (like the roman katholik church for the longer time of their existence). You can have a church without faith or religion.
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Female 2,289
just look at you guys go!
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Female 275
@patch

I really don`t think that the wording in the Bible is meant to `keep people in line`, but your other reasons seem quite valid. All the rules in Deuteronomy and such aren`t meant to keep people in line so much as make followers have an `us vs. them` mentality, which was useful in the days when there were many groups declaring that their gods were the best.
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Female 2,352
I`m not surprised that the management didn`t pass the leaflets down to the students. I don`t think they would pass out leaflets from any religious group.
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Female 275
@almightybob1
You win the `best comment in this thread` award, congrats.
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Male 5,620
Not wanting to get in the debate, but this has nothing to do with Christianity, and I am glad to see it on I-am-Bored.
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Male 4,745
SPrinkZ, and that`s the real clincher. If those things are false (Which they obviously are), then how can the rest of it be true?

The Bible is supposed to be "The Word Of God". But how could God have been so wrong on so many things. It becomes more and more evident that the "knowledge" contained in the Bible is designed to do a few things. First and foremost, it`s meant to keep people in line. Secondly, it tries to capture the stories that were passed down through the generations (most of which were part of other religions before they made it to the Bible) and lastly, it is trying to explain the things that the lacked the knowledge to explain, thousands of years ago.

Before the Sun was understood, folks used to pray to it, thinking it was a god.
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Male 4,546
Sprinkz/Patch:
See the footnote of my previous post. Genuinely think about it for a second. At least consider you may be misusing the term.

I`ll be back in 8 hours to elaborate.

Do you think it likely that I would use faith in a way that suggests people who have faith are bad/wrong/unintelligent/just going on hunches/any other derogatory term?

When I say (as I have in the past) that Atheism today resembles a religion, when I myself follow a religion, why think I have somehow intended to insult you?

I am merely pointing out some similarities. You are offended because of the many notions you hold towards Theism, and refuse to let them go.

I`m not calling you bad, I`m calling you equals. If this offends you, you`re the one being offensive.

You`re the one who doesn`t feel they should dare START a debate on equal footing, you should have a head start.
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Male 205
@patchouly & Baaltazaq (and anyone willing to join in with valid and polite arguments):
You may want to be more precise in naming what you are talking about, because most people aren`t and that leads to confusion.
I like to distinguish between faith (the believe into one or more gods or godlike beings or creators). It seems faith (or lack thereof) is a thing you can`t argue and you can`t change willingly. As an agnostic I don`t argue faith.
You can have faith without religion or church.
Religion is (mostly) based on faith and to the believe of the over-being a big system of believes and traditions is added. These additions usualy contradict each other or common sense. Religion is often used for supression and as an excuse for going to war (which has most of the times other reasons). Therefor religion is dangerous. People should be aware of these dangers.
You can have religion without faith or church.
tbc.
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Female 275
@SPrink7

I had a friend who seriously believed that god put dinosaur bones in the ground to `test our faith`.

Not laughing at her was the hardest thing I`ve ever done.
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Male 2,306
I roll with Pat on that one. I try not to let myself seem high and mighty on them, but sometimes it`s difficult when I`m talking to a biblical flood believer, or someone who thinks that people really came from a spare rib and some dirt. OR that the earth is really six thousand years old.

I mean, that level of ignorance is just laughable really, and given my knowledge it`s kind of impossible to really take it seriously, but nowadays I just walk away. There isn`t much `saving` such an injured mind.
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Female 275
Just in case not everybody noticed, this article is talking about something that happened in Denmark. Not the US. If this happened here, people would be WAY more pissed off.
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Male 1,610
They`re letting the kids know they have options, and christians are offended by that........?
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Male 4,745
Just as a side note. I don`t believe I am better then Christians because I overcame my Brainwashing. I believe I was lucky enough to have had circumstances in my life that allowed me to do the one thing I was never allowed to do. Question religion.
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Male 2,306
startling*
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Male 2,306
Baal. The kind of faith that Christians have and the kind of `faith` that a scientist have are about as similar as a negative and a positive. By that I mean that a scientist does not have FAITH.

How you can even say that is startlingly. If a person does experiments that are verified by others doing the same experiment or even modifying it to see if its premises hold up when better equipment, or better experiments come along, then that is not faith at all. Faith has nothing to do with evidence, or logical thinking whatsoever.

You need to stop stepping on scientists as if they just had really good hunches or something. You are making yourself look incredibly ignorant.
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Male 4,745
Baalthazaq, No hard feelings at all. To you or anyone else here. Even though some are quite mad at my responses. ;)

Science IS measurable. Yes there are some strange off shoots of science that are experimental and require some leaps of faith, but even they are based on solid facts.

Religion, on the other hand, is based on nothing. Just a book and a church, telling you it`s real. Nothing else.

As for the rest of science (and there is a lot of it. Everything from biology and physics to engineering) is 100% true, can be proven with zero leaps of faith.

Science is NOT infallible. However, it is a much firmer ground then basing your beliefs on a book and something a group of folks told you.
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Male 55
@PhantomX9 That`s because Atheists have been proven to have higher IQ`s than believers. Also, it`s because more rigid belief has been conclusively linked to brain damage, in an article I believe was posted to this very website... Also, skypirate, that`s because religion should have no place in a courtroom.
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Male 4,546
"Baalthazaq, first off, man I hate to be on this end of a discussion with you"

Well, I`m going to bed, so you`ll have a headstart on me by morning. :P

So a summary of future points:
It`s fine to say you were brainwashed, it is not fine to dismiss everyone who disagrees with you by necessitating that they are. (You don`t know this, you have faith this is so, you have evidence (your experience) but not proof (you don`t know my experience)).

Even science, requires some degree of faith, even though the point of science is minimizing faith (not eliminating it).

See Problem of Inductive Reasoning, which amounts to inductive leaps which are "leaps of faith".

Experimental science IS inductive reasoning.

NOTE: I`m not using the word faith derogatorily. If you are upset: Not my fault.
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Female 92
eh, it sucks that they justify passing out religious literature but not atheist religious literature. I guess they could probably justify that by not passing out any religion but Christian religious literature. I mean, if you are biased, you are biased. As long as they are an equal opportunity distributor of bias.
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Male 7,933
And i was about to be outraged by this article until I read its from Norway. I don`t know what their customs/laws are so I can`t really comment
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Male 7,933
Patch, where is the proof that you need proof?
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Male 78
patchouly THE reason people judge you as a bad person its because MOST atheists believe that they are smarter then everyone who believes in a religion,(and the fact that atheists think people who believe in religion are brainwashed idiots...)
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2,767
how come they can do that but complain when theres a 10 commandments in a court house? why cant every stop being a bunch of little bitches and just leave other people alone!
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Male 4,745
lunaticlover, I don`t need to prove or disprove God. There is zero proof. None. So why do folks believe in him? Because they were told to. If you were born somewhere else, you may believe in something else. Can you really say that being born in a specific location, makes the stories you were told growing up, true? And then, ask others to disprove them?
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Male 4,546
You in turn bring up a fairly good point Ryan, but that wouldn`t be my response.

1) In Islam prayer is divided into Salah and Du`ah. You`re talking here exclusively about Du`ah, which isn`t exactly what I`d call prayer.

Effectively, Salah is worship, Du`ah is expecting the organizer of the universe to change his mind because you asked him to.

Effectively, your scientific methodology is flawed.

For your experiment to work:
God wants to obey the command.
God didn`t want to obey the command in the first place.
God changes from one to the other because you asked him.

Does any of the above seem likely?
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Male 1,540
See, atheists can be just as obnoxious as Christians.
(I think I just offended everyone)
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Male 4,745
Baalthazaq, any easy retort?

I was Catholic. I WAS brainwashed. As I began the process of accepting that, the brainwashing became evident. I could see how we were told to not question. We were told that we had to have blind faith. We were given answers to give when someone asked us to question our faith. We were told of the consequences of going to Hell if we even thought about God`s existence.

It WAS Brainwashing. I was Brainwashed and anyone who went to a similar church will have suffered the same upbringing.
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Male 4,290
[quote]it is not "A collection of people with penises so large that a new word was invented for them"[/quote]

Correct, because correlation does not imply causation.
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Male 4,745
Baalthazaq, first off, man I hate to be on this end of a discussion with you...I`ve see you bury a few folks with some really good arguments. My respects to you.

Anyway. I disagree that "Everything" takes faith. Science is a measurable thing. I can see, feel, weigh etc. etc. most things in the world around me. Therefor, I can believe they exist.

Religion is based on a book that contains mostly factual errors and some stories. The churches have successfully kept it running for a very long time. But, as science becomes more and more apt at describing the world around us and more and more of the Bible becomes obviously incorrect, it is evident that we must give up on it.

Tell me, why should the Bible be taken literally over Mythology?
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Male 4,546
@Patch:
"Mcfudge, Thanks for calling me a drating idiot"

When you open with "We were like you.. brainwashed and afraid to look at the facts." as an immediate putdown to anyone who wants a serious debate, calling you an idiot is an easy, balanced retort.

You`d know that if you weren`t brainwashed.
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Male 10
Baalthazg: You bring up a good point about "faith". But here is the problem in your argument. If I pick up a ball and release it from my hands 3 times in a row it will drop to the ground 3 times in a row. Therefore I believe in gravity.

But, If I pray to God 3 times for him to save all of the starving children in Africa, the children in Africa still starve. Therefore I do not believe in God.

Now, I know what you are going to say,"God has a bigger plan" or something to that effect. Then why bother praying? (and why the hell is God`s plan for us starving children).

It is one thing to believe is something that produces statistically significant results, but God does not.
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Male 4,546
Ah Patchoucly, this isn`t the first time I`ve heard Atheism redefined to maximize the ego.

Atheism is the lack of belief in God. That is it.

Wikipedia: Atheism is commonly described as the position that there are no deities.

It is not "The truth and the way", it is not "Belief in reality" it is not "A collection of people with penises so large that a new word was invented for them", it is, as the dictionary claims it to be, as I have stated.

It is not, however, what you claim it to be.
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Male 4,745
mcfudge, thanks for calling me a drating idiot.

I don`t knock on people doors. I don`t go out of my way. If it comes to me and I feel it appropriate, I comment.

Religion is shoved in our faces on a daily basis. It can be a bit overwhelming at times. If I even mention I`m an Atheist, I am instantly judged as a bad person. Worst thing is, I often felt that I was alone in feeling this way.

I applaud the stand that other Atheists are making in letting folks who are on the edge know, they are not alone. It`s OK to be an Atheist. It`s OK and there are MANY of us out there. They aren`t alone.
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Male 339
I presume they did this to stop the conservative choke hold on a growing percentage of America`s politics. Couldn`t they just hand out fliers that educate people about the important of church and state instead of ridiculing people`s beliefs? Or fliers that tell people to respect the belief or non-belief of others? Oh no, acting like jackasses is the better option.
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Male 4,546
So, Patchouly, you won`t get angry at any of the upcoming posts in reaction to them being opposed to your worldview, and neither will any of the other Antitheists?

That`s why these religious discussions are so calm and considerate no doubt.

Also, just quick: It`s not blind faith. It would be convenient for you if Faith always equated to blind faith, but no. It`s just not.

I`m sorry if you need it to be to make your argument, so if it makes you feel better, go ahead.

The fact of the matter is, religion requires faith. Not blind faith.

So does everything else.

This comes from the difference between believing without evidence (something you do every day, with almost every thing), and believing without proof (something that hardly ever happens until you talk about religion, at which point it is imperative they have it. But not you).

That, like this, is outright hypocrisy.
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Male 10
To answer your question, consider this:
Imagine that you are a brown haired man with a mustache. Now imagine that I have started a club which believes that all brown haired men with mustaches are gay and enjoy anal sex.
If you ran into me in the street you would say to me, that`s bull crap, how do you know that?
I would say it is based on a book and "faith".
You would tell me that I am an jerk for holding such a belief. SEE PART 2
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Male 10

You see, even though I didn`t walk up to you and call you gay, my belief system automatically and directly label you as such. Now consider Christianity, if I walk up to a Christian and asked him several questions, he would likely answer the following:

1. I am created by the Christian God.

2. I am full of sin and therefore Jesus had to die for me.

3. I will go to hell unless I become a Christian.

So then I would say to him, how do you know that?

He would reply, because of a book I read and my "faith".

So, I say in return, Screw you for claiming to know who made me, that I am evil and will spend an eternity in hell.

I am offended that Christians believe they know who made me and that I am naturally evil so I will continue to seek proof of their claims and if and when none is produced I will continue to point out the errors in their beliefs.
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Male 4,745
I`m not sure why Christians think that Atheism is a lack of belief in anything.

Atheism is, as I mentioned, believing in things that are real. Things that can be measured.

I think it`s the brainwashing that forces one to feel the need to "believe in something".
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Male 4,745
BirdOfHermes, that`s not true either. I believe in Science. I believe in what I can see. I believe in things that can be measured. Because I can`t measure, touch or see proof of anything resembling the God of Christianity, I don`t believe in it. There is as much evidence that Zeus and the Gods of mythology exist as there is that the Christian God exists.

I don`t deny that there may or may not be an afterlife. So far, we haven`t found a way to prove it, one way or the other. However, that DOES NOT mean that the God described in some really old book, is the answer. In fact, science shows that, if there is anything after, it`s more apt to be some sort of reincarnation or recycling of the energy; but, I`m not sure I buy that one either...
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Male 537
I am an atheist and even this irritates me. These people are only doing this to cause a scene... They are no better than the churches forcing religion on people. Patchouly, you are a fcking idiot. You really think you can just tell people to not believe something? You are no different than the mormons banging on my door. "Facts"? what "facts"?
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Male 263
if atheism is lack of belief in something i dont see the point in this
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Male 294
"Now we want to "save" you guys. That`s all... "
sounds like a religion to me, only one where you refuse to believe in anything.
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Male 4,745
Tequilar, it`s not jealousy. Not at all. It`s more like...compassion.

How can anyone continue to follow a religion, after so much evidence has piled up to disprove it and zero evidence has surfaced to back it up? It`s just a sad thing to see.

Folks who are devote Christians. Folks who "Live" for their God, I leave alone. I figure I`d do more harm then good if I convinced them. For those who are on the edge, they can still be saved. Folks who can see the truth through the brainwashing, still have hope. I like to help those folks. The rest of them, I just nod my head and smile when they talk about their God. No harm, no foul.
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Male 1,523
Thats how I think of it too, Patchouly.
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Female 62
Though religion is the source for much evil in the world, I feel like humiliating a person`s faith is downright cruel. So long as they`re not using religion to justify acts of violence, discrimination, or ignorance, why can`t these kids get confirmed without an all out brawl developing with it?

I`m not Christian, hell I don`t believe in a monotheistic god in the slightest, but at its base Christianity is a loving religion. Just back off. Don`t try to ruin someone`s beliefs because you`re simply jealous you can`t have the same faith in some higher power.
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Male 4,745
Honestly, I don`t spend too much time on it. I feel sorry for these people. There is zero evidence, but the brainwashing the receive, usually from a very young age, tells them that they aren`t allowed to analyze the evidence or they`ll go to Hell. One must have "Blind Faith".

What are they basing their beliefs on? Nothing. A book that even most religious folks will admit is mostly wrong.

You`ll notice that, out of desperation, folks will cling to parts of the bible and claim the other parts aren`t meant to be taken literally.

ALL highly religious folks have text book symptoms of being brainwashed, including a few triggers that go off when you try to dislodge the brainwashing. It`s all been carefully mastered after hundreds of years of trial and error.
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Male 176
I would have to agree that baptism, communion, confirmation, they all seem to be more and more commercial. I have been to some where the whole confession to God actually gets lost in the gifts that they receive from parents, relatives and friends. It almost seems to me that the (predominantly) kids make the pledge more so to do it for the gifts, without truly thinking about what their words really mean.
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Male 15,510
Not working?
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Male 52
"Atheists care because most of us were like you. We were brainwashed and afraid to look at the facts. When we finally did, we were saved. Now we want to "save" you guys. That`s all..."

Okay, but aren`t you just trying to stop them from wasting their time? Is that worth your time?

I`m not being facetious, I actually want to know.
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Male 4,745
Atheists care because most of us were like you. We were brainwashed and afraid to look at the facts. When we finally did, we were saved. Now we want to "save" you guys. That`s all...
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Male 2,306
"Maybe I`m just stupid, but I don`t get why atheists spend time proselytizing. Why do they care what others believe?"

Your irony is really clever.
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Male 2,306
Antitheists*

Corrected...
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Male 4,745
Keep up the good work.
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Male 52
Maybe I`m just stupid, but I don`t get why atheists spend time proselytizing. Why do they care what others believe?
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Male 2
Link: Atheists Handing Out Pamphlets At Public Schools [Rate Link] - Pamphlets provided to schools by athiest organisation encouraging students to drop religious confirmation ceremony.
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