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Date: 04/09/10 03:05 PM

229 Responses to Another Pro-Gay Protester Makes Good Point [Pic]

  1. Profile photo of fancylad
    fancylad Male 30-39
    18502 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:33 am
    Link: Another Pro-Gay Protester Makes Good Point - Anti-gay marriage supporters: You live by the Bible, you die by the Bible.
  2. Profile photo of ferdyfred
    ferdyfred Male 40-49
    13602 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:13 pm
    Well, yeah, pretty much covers it, *blank*
  3. Profile photo of blacksteel
    blacksteel Male 13-17
    138 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:14 pm
    That says it all.
  4. Profile photo of patticakes
    patticakes Female 18-29
    463 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:15 pm
    Why can`t they have the same rights under the law and call it civil union? Calling it marriage makes it a freak show.
  5. Profile photo of Angelmassb
    Angelmassb Male 18-29
    15511 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:16 pm
    Thou shalt love each other?
  6. Profile photo of Fatninja01
    Fatninja01 Male 30-39
    25408 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:16 pm
    What? thats lame!
  7. Profile photo of shortsagitar
    shortsagitar Female 18-29
    676 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:20 pm
    Hahahaha!
  8. Profile photo of chunkymonkie
    chunkymonkie Male 13-17
    670 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:25 pm
    not every anti gay marriage supporter goes by the bible
  9. Profile photo of npdarren
    npdarren Male 18-29
    602 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:33 pm
    "Calling it marriage makes it a freak show."

    I don`t think letting two males or females who love each other get married makes it any more of a freak show than it already is.
  10. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:33 pm
    Ummm...first off, this guy is a retard, MOST of the bible is based on God`s word, not Jesus` word, and secondly, is he forgetting about Sodom and Gomorrah?
  11. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:35 pm
    Romans 1:27 & 1 Corinthians 6:9

  12. Profile photo of mrpuddle
    mrpuddle Male 18-29
    385 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:35 pm
    :sigh: really?

    Leviticus 18: King James Bible:
    Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

    or if this helps.

    Leviticus 18:
    World English Bible
    `You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestable.
  13. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:37 pm
    What? thats lame!

    It`s true, though, according to the Christian bible. Absolutely nothing at all in there from Jesus about homosexuality. Not explicitly, anyway. There is the comment about upholding the old laws, which could indirectly refer to homosexuality.

    Also, of course, it could be interpreted to mean that Jesus thought homosexuality was so obviously wrong that there was no need to say so.

    I don`t think there could have been anything about "gay people" because that idea didn`t exist until later. I`m not sure about that, because I`m not sure about the language and culture in Judea ~2000 years ago. Much of the NT was written in Greek, though, and that didn`t have a word for homosexual people because homosexuality was connected to the action, not the person. So they would say of a person "they have homosexual sex", not "they are homosexual".
  14. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:37 pm
    I mean, "Sodom and Gomorrah" wasn`t something that was said, it was more of an action, but according to the popular phrase, "Actions speak louder than words."
  15. Profile photo of Saragato
    Saragato Female 18-29
    721 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:37 pm
    "Why can`t they have the same rights under the law and call it civil union? Calling it marriage makes it a freak show."

    I guess it`s an equality thing? Like the whole calling them your partner instead of husband or wife. But since people tie in the word `marriage` with a church and yadda yadda crap gets flung.

    I know marriage isn`t a necessity to be together forever but some people do enjoy the simple fact of knowing they are bound to that person in a recognizable way.
  16. Profile photo of IssaTheFiend
    IssaTheFiend Female 18-29
    2354 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:38 pm
    I can`t believe this sh*t is still an issue.
  17. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:40 pm
    mrpuddle:

    You`re showing your ignorance of your own religion and holy book:

    Leviticus is not an account of what Jesus said. It`s Jewish. It predates Jesus by centuries, possibly more than a millenium.

    You are quoting a very disputed translation as if it was the original.

    You`re quoting a verse as if it was an entire chapter.
  18. Profile photo of Slmmhmmr161
    Slmmhmmr161 Male 18-29
    606 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:40 pm
    Jesus didn`t say it, Leviticus or Deuteronomy did.
  19. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:41 pm
    I mean, "Sodom and Gomorrah" wasn`t something that was said, it was more of an action, but according to the popular phrase, "Actions speak louder than words."

    i) What were the actions? Look into it - it`s much less clear than you think.

    ii) It has nothing to do with Jesus.
  20. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:44 pm
    @ferrari91169

    Good point! Just ignore that stuff about Jesus, the parts with the jealous, tyrannical, megalomaniac were more interesting anyways. But really, what kind of ridiculous argument are you trying to make anyways? God, Jesus and the holy ghost are separate beings and Christianity is really polytheistic? I personally don`t believe a word of it, but it would be nice if you people that do could get your ducks in a row.
  21. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:46 pm
    I guess it`s an equality thing? Like the whole calling them your partner instead of husband or wife. But since people tie in the word `marriage` with a church and yadda yadda crap gets flung.

    It gets equality under the law.

    It is impossible to force equality of social status just by forcing a particular word to be used.

    So even if, somehow, the word `marriage` is forced through, it will be exactly the same as calling it a civil union. Those who will treat it the same as heterosexual marriage will do so regardless of what it`s called and those who won`t will not do so regardless of what it`s called.

    So trying to force the word `marriage` through has no benefits and lots of drawbacks, mainly that it makes it pretty much impossible to get equality under the law.

    In effect, the choice is between equality under the law and a futile argument over a meaningless word that entrenches opposition.
  22. Profile photo of lyckosam
    lyckosam Male 18-29
    193 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:48 pm
    why the should religion have any say in law? ESPECIALLY in the US. the whole reason your country exists is because at the time, here in Europe, the Church/State line had become a mess and religious and moral persecution was rife. Your ancestors left here and settled in North America to create a land of freedom and tolerance and so far you`ve had apartheid and now you have all this daft stuff going on!?
    Isn`t it in your constitution!? Separation of Church and State!? What is going on over there!?
  23. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:48 pm
    @Angillion,

    No, it`s pretty clear. It wasn`t JUST destroyed for homosexuality alone, but it was one of the reasons.

    Secondly, I KNOW it had nothing to do with Jesus, read my other post...I think this guy was thinking of the Bible and mistakenly said Jesus. If he actually meant Jesus (which I doubt), then I suppose he`s right, Jesus never said anything himself, but since he was the Son of God it`s just kind of assumed that he had similar views on the subject.

    But honestly, if he didn`t just mistakenly put Jesus meaning The Bible, or God instead, then he`s kind of retarded. Jesus is God`s son, and a tool of God. He used his son to forgive us of all our sins.

    The Bible itself is based on God`s word, not Jesus` word, so saying "Jesus never said anything" is a stupid thing to say, as it`s not a very good point.

    It`s still a fact that the Bible itself says negative things about homosexuality, as well as God, and God and the Bible a
  24. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    "I mean, "Sodom and Gomorrah" wasn`t something that was said, it was more of an action, but according to the popular phrase, "Actions speak louder than words.""

    you realize that place was more than just gays and lesbians running amuck. from ezekial 16:48-50

    "Sodom never did what you and your daughters have done." He explains that the sin of Sodom was that "She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    yes in genesis they say that Lot`s angel guests are harassed by the men to get into bed with them, but that was definitely not their only sin.
  25. Profile photo of evanking
    evanking Male 18-29
    689 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    technically it wasn`t Jesus, but..

    1 corinthians 6:9
  26. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:51 pm
    "and a tool of God"

    poor argument. it says god has made everyone in his image and thus EVERYONE is part of god or even as you put it a tool of god. the fact that there are homosexuals is god`s fault or god`s plan, take that as you will.
  27. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:52 pm
    Oh god damn it not again!
  28. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:53 pm
    The result in the UK bears out my position.

    They`re called civil partnerships here, rather than civil unions, but it`s the same thing.

    They have exactly the same legal and official status as a marriage. They have the same thing for divorce as well, except that it`s officially called dissolution. The partnership is dissolved...and it`s exactly the same as divorce.

    The law passed without any fuss, because the contentious word `marriage` wasn`t in it. Many people didn`t even know, or care, that the law had changed.

    People who aren`t opposed to homosexual marriage generally call them marriages anyway, except in an official context.

    In short, it works. Unlike trying to force the word `marriage` through.
  29. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:54 pm
    I will add that, I while I am a Christian I do believe that you should let people live their lives and do what they want. If they choose not to believe the Bible then I`m not going to force my ideas on them.

    I actually wouldn`t let it bother me if two men/women could get married, and a lot of my Christian friends look down on me for it saying I should try to protect God`s word, and that he created marriage between a man and a woman.

    That`s fine and all, but I just don`t see the point of me worrying what other people do. If they don`t believe the Bible, there`s no point in forcing my beliefs on them for no reason. I`ll live my life, they can live theirs.

    I won`t necessarily agree with them being together, as it`s against my belief`s, but I`m not going to take away their rights, or not be friends with them. I`m not going to skip out on what could be a good friendship on the basis of my belief`s.
  30. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    @Angilion

    You are simply incorrect, a civil union and marriage are not the same. A civil union does not offer the same benefits to the spouse of a deceased partner, nor does the recognition cross state lines as well as a lot of other things. They are not the same, that is the problem.
  31. Profile photo of skaterboy17
    skaterboy17 Male 18-29
    296 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    @ mrpuddle,
    I love how when athiests/antitheists quote something from the Leviticus, it`s taken completely out of context, and "It doesn`t really mean that if you steal a loaf of bread you should be dipped in sheep`s blood and thrown in a lion`s den, that book was in the old testament" or something to that extent, but anti-gay Christians quote those two verses all the time.
  32. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:56 pm
    @Angilion

    That is in the United States anyways.
  33. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:56 pm
    The Bible itself is based on God`s word, not Jesus` word, so saying "Jesus never said anything" is a stupid thing to say, as it`s not a very good point.

    Since Christianity is supposed to be based on the teachings of Jesus (the Christ for whom Christianity is named), it`s not a stupid thing to say. If you want Old Testament as it stands, you`re after Judaism, not Christianity.
  34. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:57 pm
    @IkeRay,

    Well, I actually believe that homosexuality is a choice. God gives us free will to do as we please. If we choose to be homosexual that`s our choice, not God`s choice. And God gives people free will because he only wants the ones who really love him to go to heaven.

    If he didn`t give us freewill, everyone would have to do good regardless of if they wanted to or not, and a lot of "phonies" would get in to heaven. God gives everyone their fair shot to get in the heaven, if they decide, they can pass on it.
  35. Profile photo of lyckosam
    lyckosam Male 18-29
    193 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:57 pm
    @Angillion

    I live in the Uk and though I fully imagine you`re right re. the use of the word "marriage", i should point out there are subtle differences between civil unions and marriages, such as the benefits of a widow/widower after a spouse`s death etc. ur point is valid, but they ARE different things. (as proud as i am of how progressive we r in th uk, we still have a small way to go!)
  36. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:59 pm
    @Angilion

    That is in the United States anyways.

    Are you sure? I have repeatedly read that civil unions in the USA do not have exactly the same legal status as marriages. They`re also not valid in all states.
  37. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 3:59 pm
    exactly protester. this is what i always say, until God actually says in person that He dislikes gays, which He never did and probably never will because i believe He loves every one of His creations, i wont believe any of these gay haters that say "God hates fags"


    no one on Earth can speak for God, only He can speak for Himself
  38. Profile photo of mmill928
    mmill928 Female 18-29
    275 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:02 pm
    @zmeace
    Unfortunately, it`s pretty clear in the Bible that the Christian god doesn`t like gay people. It`s mentioned a couple times in the OT.
  39. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:02 pm
    @zmeace,

    I agree, I don`t believe God hates fags because God doesn`t hate ANYONE, but homosexuality is still a sin. It doesn`t mean he hates them, it means he disapproves of their lifestyle.

    For instance, he doesn`t hate murderer`s, rapist`s, etc, but he doesn`t agree with what they do, and they will not be allowed in to heaven unless they repent and are serious about it.
  40. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:03 pm
    if you truly love someone and are ready for the commitment, who has the power to stop you from getting married? it should be no one.

    People need to learn to separate Church from State, we dont live in Medieval times anymore, thats what they did back then this is hundreds of years later, we changed, why wont that change?
  41. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:03 pm
    @zmeace,

    Exactly...it seems you have very similar views to my own.
  42. Profile photo of kummi90
    kummi90 Male 18-29
    541 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:05 pm
    @ ferrari91169 I hope you get asscancer...

    Your argument assumes God exist and is therefore invalid. You use false logic. And also, homosexuality is found in nature among many species, which implies that it is not "God`s will". You also can not chose your sexual urges and desires. Homosexuality is a sexual identity, just like heterosexual, pedophile, zoophile, or necrohpile for that matter...
  43. Profile photo of Spocom
    Spocom Female 13-17
    709 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:06 pm
    Hey I have that same backpack!
  44. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:06 pm
    I live in the Uk and though I fully imagine you`re right re. the use of the word "marriage", i should point out there are subtle differences between civil unions and marriages, such as the benefits of a widow/widower after a spouse`s death etc.

    Only for pensions that started before the law allowing civil partnerships (for some pensions) or before the limit of backdating (for other pensions), which is somewhere around 1990.

    That occurs because of the principle that laws cannot be retroactive, i.e. that cannot apply before they are passed.

    If you started a pension any time after the law/backdating limit and then entered a civil partnership, your spouse would have exactly the same spousal pension (and any other benefits of that pension scheme) as a heterosexual spouse.

    There are no other differences, except for the custom that civil partnerships are enacted by signature and marriages by spoken word (but legally either can be use
  45. Profile photo of lyckosam
    lyckosam Male 18-29
    193 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:07 pm
    @Angilion

    i didn`t realise that was the case! if thts true then i stand corrected and completely agree with everything ur saying :-) nice work :-)
  46. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:08 pm
    Bah. So much blatant hypocrisy and cherry-picking of quotes. Why do the Christians who think homosexuality is an abomination also think it`s fine to eat shellfish, wear clothes made from different two different materials, do some work on a sunday, and all that other bronze-age mumbo-jumbo that likewise people were to be put to death for? Christians are often quick to denounce those as being ancient Mosaic Law, no longer applicable after the coming of Jesus, which is the central tenet of Christianity blah blah blah. Why then the continued anti-homosexuality?

    It`s all bollocks. Like the poster says, if Homosexuality was such a big deal to Jesus, why didn`t he mention it? Once? A single God-Damn word? (see what I did there?)

    I`m staying out of this one, you bible-thumpers/gay-bashers have fun.
  47. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:09 pm
    "and a lot of "phonies" would get in to heaven"

    you do realize that all you have to do is ask for forgiveness and not say a certain phrase (about believing in the holy spirit). the murderer that was on the cross next to jesus asked for forgiveness and Jesus responds, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." I`d say plenty of "phonies" who ask for forgiveness at death are in heaven despite a life of sins
  48. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:09 pm
    @kummi90,

    All of those "sexual identities" you list are usually found in people with very similar profiles. Many of them usually have a similar upbringing, and thus it makes it appear as though their "sexual identity" is assumed after they are born, and is highly based on their upbringing.

    To say my argument is invalid solely on the fact that I believe God exists is a very childish thing to say. And when did I say homosexuality was "God`s will"?
  49. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:10 pm
    Unfortunately, it`s pretty clear in the Bible that the Christian god doesn`t like gay people. It`s mentioned a couple times in the OT.

    No, it isn`t.

    It`s claimed a few times in the OT that the Abrahamic god regards homosexual sex *between men* as being unclean. Although even that`s disputable because the meaning can be interpreted different ways. But it`s sex-specific and it`s about the action, not the people.
  50. Profile photo of wyngit
    wyngit Male 18-29
    153 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:10 pm
    @mmil928

    The OT is before Jesus. Seriously. Go read your bible. Also what`s 928?
  51. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:11 pm
    ferrari please tell me how its a sin?
    and after you try to do so.
    tell me whats not a sin?

    Gays are loved by God, and should get the same equal treatment as straight people. The only difference between the two is their love choice and why does this matter?

    mmill give me one example from the Bible that God says he dislikes Gays, i would love to see this. all im asking is one example, im sure its going to be pretty hard because He doesnt.
    and besides SO WHAT?! If only their love choice is different then WHY WOULDNT GOD LOVE THEM?! just for arguments sake, what if being gay was the norm and you were straight, how would you like for someone to tell you, Ew youre a guy and you like girls, God hates you and i will do all i can to make sure you can never get married!sucks wouldnt itim straight by the way but i get really angry when people are so closed minded that they refuse to realize that everyone in this country has equal rights and therefore should all be
  52. Profile photo of unmercyfuldu
    unmercyfuldu Male 18-29
    762 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:11 pm
    @Angilion

    That is what I said. Marriage and civil unions are not equal in the US. That second post was to clear up my other response to you where Iassumed you were talking about the US, not the UK, just tried to clear up some confusion, guess it caused more.
  53. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:12 pm
    @IkeRay,

    What you don`t realize is that you have to MEAN it. God knows if you honestly want forgiveness or if you`re just looking for a quick way in to heaven. The murderer on the cross meant what he said, other murderers don`t.

    If you mean it, God will accept it, if you don`t, then it won`t mean anything and God will not forgive you for your sins. In order to be forgiven you have to be sincere. For instance, if you rape someone, ask for forgiveness, and then rape someone again, it`s quite obvious you aren`t sincere and until you really regret what you`ve done and repent, you will not be forgiven.
  54. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:12 pm
    "if Homosexuality was such a big deal to Jesus, why didn`t he mention it? Once? A single God-Damn word? (see what I did there?) "

    well, its not like someone followed jesus around and manuscripted his life, the bible is what people thought was important and some dudes got together and wrote a book about it (gospels actually). prove to me jesus even existed and this isn`t just another fictional story like Harry Potter.

    anyways, I agree its all bollocks for people to pick and choose what they follow
  55. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:12 pm
    but ferrari just in case i went on too long i want to get one point out


    how is being gay a sin? and if you really follow the Bible word for word...what isnt a sin?
  56. Profile photo of LazyMe484
    LazyMe484 Male 18-29
    10443 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:14 pm
    Why would it matter what Jesus said?
  57. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:16 pm
    i didn`t realise that was the case! if thts true then i stand corrected and completely agree with everything ur saying nice work

    I spent hours poring over information from official sources and from homosexuality advocacy groups trying to find any differences, so I`m confident that it`s true. I couldn`t find any differences to begin with, because the law was deliberately written for there not to be any. The discrepency between what I`d heard (that there were some differences) and what the law said (that there aren`t) bugged me enough to keep me looking.

    One interesting side-effect of the different custom regarding making the vows is that civil partnerships can easily be carried out in two different locations. One partner signs in one location, the other partner somewhere else. So you could get married where you first met and where you proposed. I think that`s a nicely romantic touch.
  58. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:16 pm
    lol lazyme

    im Jewish and your comment just pointed out to me, im going way too much on Jesus`s and the Bible`s word
  59. Profile photo of DiegoDeFuego
    DiegoDeFuego Male 18-29
    241 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    @zmeace

    I`m not positive but I`m pretty sure the sin is in when sex is no longer a sacred thing and is just a place for carnal pleasure. Sex is supposed to be the physical representation of a commitment between two people who love eachother. Where the bible talks about homosexuality is in places like Sodom and Gamorra (sp?) where the inhabitants were so vile that when the two angels came to Lot the town demanded that Lot send them out so they could have their way with them.
  60. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    @zmeace,

    For one reference...

    1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
  61. Profile photo of Kadinsky
    Kadinsky Male 18-29
    575 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:22 pm
    Hasn`t it struck you guys before that God doesn`t exist?
  62. Profile photo of Boadicea
    Boadicea Female 18-29
    1678 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:22 pm
    "prove to me jesus even existed and this isn`t just another fictional story like Harry Potter."

    Haha, `Jesus Christ and the Goblet of Sin`. Somebody get on that.
  63. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:22 pm
    That is what I said. Marriage and civil unions are not equal in the US. That second post was to clear up my other response to you where Iassumed you were talking about the US, not the UK, just tried to clear up some confusion, guess it caused more.

    Ah, I see.

    It doesn`t change my point, because you could change civil unions to have the same legal status as marriages. Or just copy UK civil partnership law. Copy and paste, job done :)
  64. Profile photo of Boadicea
    Boadicea Female 18-29
    1678 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:22 pm
    Seriously though, anybody who `inherits the kingdom of God` is probably a boring square. I`ll be partying it up in hell with all the cool people.
  65. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    ok im saying one more thing before im off this topic:

    as i said before, why would one man`s word supposedly saying that God doesnt want gays in Heaven, that only in the bible says he was the Son of God, ONLY IN THE BIBLE, be so strong that it could cause so much hatred towards one group of people? why does the Bible have such strong power in this country? i understand that Christianity is the major religion in the US but leave Christianity to the Church.

    If 2 people truly love each other and are ready for the commitment and they never harm a single person in their life (intentionally) then why wouldnt God want them in His Kingdom of Heaven. If you truly believe in Hell, then do you really believe that gays getting married is so bad that they deserve to be sent to Hell?
  66. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    Ferrari

    "
    For one reference...

    1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." "

    First off, this is a translation, the Bible was NOT written in English. This particular passage was originally written in Greek.

    The two words translated by some as "nor effeminate, nor homosexuals," are, respectively, malakoi and arsenokoite. Malakoi means soft or fine, and though its colloquial meaning is effeminate - the greek standard of effeminate was very different from ours, and included men who tried to hard to please their wives.

    The second word, arsenokoite, is a composite word Paul invented and never defined. From its place in the list, it is probably a refer
  67. Profile photo of mr_c_bowler
    mr_c_bowler Male 18-29
    301 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:29 pm
    being gay is not what people have evolved to do?
    therefore its not right. i personally won`t hold it against you in any way. i do, however, maintain that its it wrong. the human race has evolved to reproduce. the only reason we are alive is to make more of us. so being gay is going against that.
    im saying this so that hopefully some people will stop pulling the religion card because that means nothing.
    however, if thats what some people want to do then fine. just realize that what you chose is not technically the correct thing to do
  68. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:29 pm
    For one reference...

    1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

    Would you like to explain how you think that passage was written *using a concept that did not exist in the original language or culture*? There was neither the word `homosexuals` nor the concept of it. They thought and talked about homosexual acts, but not homosexual people. So the meaning cannot possibly be `homosexuals`.

    I bet you weren`t aware of that.

    This is the arsenokoitai issue, isn`t it? The word that isn`t used anywhere else and has no known meaning, but was translated as `homosexuals` anyway because that`s what the translators wanted to be there.
  69. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:30 pm
    gays getting married is bad enough that they should be sent to Hell rather than being allowed in The Kingdom Of Heaven?

    people really believe this or something like this? i usually dont like to say that peoples opinions are stupid, but ill make an exception.

    this is stupid if you believe this.

    im done.
  70. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:31 pm
    More reality for Ferrari

    Greek in Paul`s day had two words that did mean `men who have sex with men` - erestes and eranamos.

    Pay close attention: Paul did not use either word in the passage you quoted, or in any other text purported to be a condemnation of homosexuals.

    The passage you quoted has been falsely translated. Further, comparing someone`s loving relationship to murder indicates a deeply unhealthy moral code, one incapable of recognizing the difference between right and wrong.
  71. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:31 pm
    @zmeace,

    I guess it really depends on what you believe. If someone believes homosexuality is a sin, then they would probably believe homesexual`s will go to hell.

    Let me ask you this, do you believe stealing is a sin? And do you believe that those who download movies illegally (in other words, steal movies) should go to hell?

    It all comes down to what the individual person believes. If you believe that gays will not go to hell, then more power to you. I personally don`t believe that, though I have no problem with gays, or gays getting married. It`s their life, they can do what they want with it.

  72. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:33 pm
    As I thought, it`s the arsenokoitai issue. It`s also the sex-specific issue, again.

    religioustolerance.org/homarsen.htm

    Damn, so many people have no bloody clue what their own holy book actually says.

    Also...how do I put clickable URLs in a post here? It won`t even allow full URLs because of the 40-character limit for a single "word".
  73. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:34 pm
    Several more points for you to consider, ferrari - named after a symbol of greed (which Christ condemned)

    anti-gay prejudice relies on slandering GLBTQ people, as you have done, and slanderers are explicitly included the Corinthians passage you quoted. You`ve only convicted yourself with that verse.

    The reality is that homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and lovemaking between two people of the same gender - Does not violate what Christ said was THE LAW, (love your neighbor as yourself) and is not sin - but discrimination, and the prejudice you`ve defended, intrinsically violates that law, and

    is sin. Prejudice and bigotry is sin, homosexuality is not.
  74. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:36 pm
    anglion - try tinyurl.
  75. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:40 pm
    @Heureux and Angillion,

    Be that as it may, there are still other versus you could turn to. And no, I guess I didn`t know about the fact of how it was translated to mean what the translator wanted it to mean, which by your facts kinds of seems what may have happened, so I accept that I`m wrong there.

    You know, I was brought up believing homosexuality was sin, and even that gays shouldn`t be allowed to get married, and that I shouldn`t even be friends with them, but since then I`ve changed some of my views. So much so as that I have no problems being friends with homosexual`s, and I also believe they should have the right to get married.

    Maybe in time I`ll accept that homosexuality may not be a sin, but for now that is my belief, I will say that with what you guys have said I`m kind of leaning away from the idea that it`s a sin.

    Oh, and some of the other versus I could reference...

    Leviticus 18:22
    Leviticus 20:13
    Romans 1:26-28
  76. Profile photo of Fleh
    Fleh Male 18-29
    231 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:41 pm
    PFFFFT! I`m not gay but who the heck wants to go to heaven anyway? I`d rather shove needles into my eyes than have to float around listening to a bunch of douches play harps for all eternity
  77. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:44 pm
    @Heureux,

    I have no idea how I am being Prejudice. I`m saying nothing negative of homosexual`s. As I`ve said, THEY DO NOT bother me, and I DO NOT MIND if they have the right to get married. I merely stated that based on my belief`s I don`t believe they will go to heaven.

    If that`s Prejudice than I`m sorry, but I don`t believe it is. I also believe that murderers and rapists will go to hell...does that make me prejudice against them as well?
  78. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:44 pm
    Ferrari

    "Well, I actually believe that homosexuality is a choice. "

    Well, it is not, and millions of GLBTQ people have been saying so for generations. You simply refuse to believe us when we testify about our lives, and that is arrogant and abusive on your part.

    Essentially, you are calling millions of people liars about something they know that you cannot - their lives, their thoughts and their feelings. Unless you want to be treated that way, your belief that homosexuality is a choice

    is sin. You need to repent.

    "Many of them usually have a similar upbringing, and thus it makes it appear as though their "sexual identity" is assumed after they are born, and is highly based on their upbringing. "

    That is simply a false statement. It is the standard sick fantasy told by people who make their living, who make money, bashing GLBTQ people.
  79. Profile photo of DiegoDeFuego
    DiegoDeFuego Male 18-29
    241 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:46 pm
    Under no circumstances will being gay make you go to hell. Rejecting God is what makes you go to hell.
  80. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:49 pm
    Sodom, by the way, was NOT about homosexuals, as Ezekiel makes explicitly clear. The people of Sodom were guilty of torturing people, neglecting the poor, and persecuting those who tried to help the poor.

    Kinda like Republicans and fundamentalist Christians. In fact, the true sodomites today are anyone who promotes injustice and discrimination, including homophobes and people who just condemn homosexuality.

    Oh, and Ferrari - calling someone `retarded` is definitely sin. Jesus said that the fires of hell await anyone who calls his brother `fool`.


    Like most people who condemn homosexuality, you really should be paying more attention to your own shortcomings, and spend less time judging people you know next to nothing about.
  81. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:51 pm
    Heureux,

    I don`t know how you can say "you are calling millions of people liars about something they know that you cannot"...

    Heterosexual`s know just as much as homosexual`s know what feelings feel like. You`re saying that I can`t know the feeling of being attracted to a certain gender? Because I know that feeling, it`s just an attraction to a female, not a male.

    Furthermore, I have the choice to be gay if I want, and personally I choose not to be. I don`t think I was born this way, I think I chose to be this way. When I was growing up I had no interest in boys or girls. As I grew older I had to make a choice, and I chose to be heterosexual.

    There`s no proof either way to say you`re born or not born a certain way.
  82. Profile photo of DiegoDeFuego
    DiegoDeFuego Male 18-29
    241 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    @Heureux

    you are being way too judgemental. Ferrarri has shown no prejudice or hatred and has even questioned whether or not being gay is a sin at all. You`re being an non-nice individual.
  83. Profile photo of videogamer
    videogamer Male 18-29
    3016 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    I`d like to know which particular period in the Bible references gays. I mean, there must be, like, thousands of periods in it; how do you know which is the right one?
  84. Profile photo of james20
    james20 Male 13-17
    154 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    lol i love how 2 idiots always have a huge argument on some stuff. I scroll down and see only two people posting, and both in big paragraphs.
  85. Profile photo of Dreamstarr77
    Dreamstarr77 Female 30-39
    99 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    Wow can you guys not hug and agree to disagree?
  86. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:55 pm
    Ferrari

    You use `be that as it may` to dismiss the fact that you are engaged in sin, and then have the arrogance to call my relationship, and the relationships of millions of other people `sin` - something worthy of death and damnation?

    Please do not ever call yourself a Christian in public again.

    "Leviticus 18:22
    Leviticus 20:13"

    These two passages were not written in English either. Both use two different words for male, the first indicates husband, the second indicates priest. Translated acccurately, these passages that for a husband to have sex with a priest in his wife`s bed makes them both ritually unclean.

    The word often translated by non-jews as `abomination` means ritual impurity, not sin, not abomination.

    And while you pretend to be innocent of prejudice, the second verse you quoted demands the death penalty - as they are trying to implement in Uganda. If your interpretation were actually applied (as it de
  87. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:58 pm
    ferrari91169:

    There`s a website that tries to cover all sides regarding religious issues. It`s all deliberately co-written by five people with radically different religious positions in an attempt to remove any personal bias. They go into a lot of detail about Christianity and there`s a very large section about homosexuality and Christianity in the "Hot Topics" section.

    The website is www.religioustolerance.org

    The section about what the Christian bible really says about homosexuality is here:

    http://tinyurl.com/35q3n
  88. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 4:59 pm
    I have nothing more to say...I`d be fine agreeing to disagree...

    As it stands, homosexuality DOES NOT bother me, and homosexual`s getting married and having equal rights as a man and woman DOES NOT bother me. Whether or not I believe it is a sin I`m unsure of at the moment. On one hand, I think it is...on the other hand, maybe it was just the poor translation of some of the statements in the Bible that made me think this way.

    Either way, I will live my life, and I`ll let others live their life. I do agree that there isn`t any person, or group for that matter, that should be able to deny someone to marry whom he/she wants. If they love each other and are ready to make the commitment, I think that`s a beautiful thing, be it a man-woman, man-man, or woman-woman.
  89. Profile photo of apoet4life
    apoet4life Male 18-29
    237 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:00 pm
    "Oh, and some of the other versus I could reference...

    Leviticus 18:22
    Leviticus 20:13
    Romans 1:26-28 "

    Do you really want to go that route with Leviticus...let alone that whole Romans thing? If you want to quote Leviticus as proof that homosexuality is a sin then you may as well stop eating shrimp, wearing clothing of 2 different fabrics, etc. Those verses are taken out of context. Want to read something interesting so you can take it literally? Google the story of Jonathan and David.
  90. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:01 pm
    (Cut off)
    Ferrari

    And while you pretend to be innocent of prejudice, the second verse you quoted demands the death penalty - as they are trying to implement in Uganda. If your interpretation were actually applied, GLBTQ people would have to be executed.

    That is very extreme prejudice, DiegoDeFuego. The assertion that homosexuality is sin is a degrading attack on the value of GLBTQ lives, since it invokes a verse that demands the death penalty, it slanders the relationships and character of GLBTQ people by calling the most beautiful, loving, vulnerable and enriching parts of our lives `worthy of death and damnation`. Ferrari equated love-making between two people of the same gender to murder and stealing, when he quoted an english translation from 1st Corinthians.

    Pay attention to what words mean before you leap to absolve overt prejudice.
  91. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:06 pm
    In addition to previous comments, I think the issue of context is important. The verse prior to the one usually (and inaccurately) translated as condemning homosexuality between men is about another religion, one that Judaism was competing with...and one in which sex between men was practiced as a religious rite, in temples. This leads some people to conclude that the Leviticus verses were, due to context, specifically about that and not about homosexual sex between men in general.
  92. Profile photo of Lockon
    Lockon Male 18-29
    376 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:06 pm
    What about atheists who are against gay marriage? WHERE`S YOUR SMARTASS SIGN NOW?!?!

    /sarcasm
  93. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:07 pm
    As for the Romanss 1 passage, Ferrari - you committed fraud by taking two verses out of context. In context, Paul is explicitly condemning the specific sexual fertility rituals used in religions he condemned.

    The judgement in that passage that homosexuality is unnatural is categorically false. So either Paul is not condemning homosexuality, or his letters are spiritually worthless.

    "I have the choice to be gay if I want,"

    No. Bisexuals can, sort of, chose to be gay or straight, in the sense of limiting themselves to only romantic/sexual relationships with one or the other gender.

    Heterosexuals do not chose to be heterosexual, homosexuals do not chose to be homosexuals, and when you insist that you know our lives better than we do, by claiming that our sexuality is chosen, you are pretending to read our minds.

    You do not know what I, or any other GLBTQ person has actually thought, decided, or chosen

    UNLESS we tell you.
  94. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:08 pm
    Also...how do I put clickable URLs in a post here? It won`t even allow full URLs because of the 40-character limit for a single "word".
    Angilion, use the "link" button to the right of the comment box.
  95. Profile photo of MYCHEMGIRL
    MYCHEMGIRL Female 13-17
    1287 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:11 pm
    It`s almost as if I`ve seen forums like this before... OH WAIT.
  96. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:11 pm
    "I have nothing more to say...I`d be fine agreeing to disagree..."

    You have "I`m sorry, I have sinned against GLBTQ people" yet to say.

    "As it stands, homosexuality DOES NOT bother me,"

    Don`t try to pull my leg - you quoted a Bible passage that calls for the death penalty, and you claimed that passage was about homosexuals.

    In other words, you looked at a passage that says `these people must die` and decided it applied to millions of human beings.

    That is extreme prejudice, Ferrari. If you are feeling defensive now, well, that`s appropriate, since you set yourself up as judge and jury over other people, and even declared the penalty to be death.
  97. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:12 pm
    Angilion, use the "link" button to the right of the comment box.

    hahaha, all my time here and I never noticed that!

    Thanks.
  98. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    Then there`s the "as with a woman" part. Which could mean that two men having sex with each other is fine as long as neither of them are acting as a woman. If neither is acting as a woman, then they are both having sex with a man as with a man and not as with a woman, so the verse doesn`t apply.
  99. Profile photo of Nidonemo
    Nidonemo Male 18-29
    9311 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:14 pm
    I seriously need to start writing the next Bible. This is ridiculous.
  100. Profile photo of monktoast
    monktoast Male 18-29
    263 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:15 pm
    Jesus is God, thus the old testement versus apply
  101. Profile photo of DiePSPolice
    DiePSPolice Male 30-39
    493 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:16 pm
    @ferrari: "I have the choice to be gay if I want, and personally I choose not to be. I don`t think I was born this way, I think I chose to be this way. When I was growing up I had no interest in boys or girls. As I grew older I had to make a choice, and I chose to be heterosexual. "

    I think this actually means you`re probably naturally bi. I am straight, and was born that way. In puberty I had an uncontrollable, overwhelming desire for girls my own age, my friends` moms, actresses on TV, random women. The Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue and even newspaper lingerie ads would make my head spin. For people like me, it`s immediately self-evident that homosexuality is not a choice (there`s no way I could be gay; the thought repulses me). Therefore there should be no descrimination against gays in any way (sex, marriage, adoption, etc.) - they are born that way. I think people who think it is a choice are probably bi or gay themselves, which is why they think it`s a ch
  102. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:18 pm
    Angilion

    Not only does the English translation `as with a woman` not accurately apply to love-making between two men (gay men have sex with other men as with a man, to be crude), it isn`t even a very accurate translation of the Hebrew.

    The Hebrew passage actually references `a woman`s bed` - which makes sense when the first word for male is seen in its meaning of husband. The two leviticus passages really are about a form of adultery - married men cheating on their wives by having sex with fertility cult priests.

    Two kinds of people have sex with someone as if that someone were a woman - heterosexual men, and lesbians.

    One other fun Bible fact - the very first curse in the Bible directed at any human being

    targets the product of heterosexual intercourse.

    Genesis 3 - check it out. Childbirth, a product of heterosexual intercourse, is cursed. If God is harsh on any sexual orientation - it ain`t homosexuality.
  103. Profile photo of Heureux
    Heureux Male 40-49
    1054 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:20 pm
    monktoast

    If you try to use Levitical law to condemn anyone, you bind yourself under all of it, including the laws about what you can eat, what you can wear, how much you must tithe, paying interest on loans, etc.

    And if you fail to keep every single law, it is as if you broke them all.

    You may wish to be a little more careful.
  104. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:21 pm
    @Heureux,

    Actually, I came in this post not minding homosexual`s AT ALL. They`re actually not all bad...it`s you, and the one`s similar to you, that ruin it for the rest of them. I know plenty of homosexual`s that are very similar to me...they believe that you should let people live their life and believe what they want.

    You on the other hand choose to bash everyone else`s views if they don`t agree with you. I really don`t understand the point, I have nothing against you. Maybe I shouldn`t have quoted those verses, I was just trying to be quick at responding, in retrospect that was a bad idea.

    You should just let everyone go on with their lives and ignore their views if you don`t agree with them. There`s really no need to sit there and bash them because you`re not going to change their mind, especially with that attitude.

    I honestly feel you`re doing more bad for the homosexual community then you`re doing good, but you continue on however you w
  105. Profile photo of AlienPoison5
    AlienPoison5 Male 18-29
    192 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:22 pm
    The poster says "As Jesus says about gay people...". For those you quoting the passages against gays, Jesus didn`t say any of those. You`re quoting from the Old Testament and most of Christianity abandoned that testament (except to find ammo to attack others obviously) a long time ago. The Old Testament was written about a jealous, unforgiving and unrelenting God, called Yahweh by most. The New Testament was more about The Trinity (God seemed to suddenly have a personality change/split when Jesus came about), who taught love, forgiveness and patience. No where in the new testament does it lash out at anyone other than liars, accusers, thieves and judges.

    Why do people mix the two testaments to create their own agenda? Because they SUCK!
  106. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:27 pm
    @DiePSPolice,

    I really don`t think I`m naturally bi. For that to be true it`d seem I`d have to have some kind of urge towards men, and I have no such thing. I still believe it`s a choice though honestly, or maybe even something that`s decided by your upbringing.

    If you`re brought up being told you`re supposed to be with a man, you`re probably going to want to be with a man, and have urges towards men because you believe that`s how it should be. Just like if you grow up with your Dad telling you rape is a good thing, you`re probably going to rape someone...are you saying the person was born a rapist?

    Also, be careful when saying stuff like this, "(there`s no way I could be gay; the thought repulses me)"...you don`t want to offend Heureux by letting him know homosexuality "repulses" you.
  107. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:31 pm
    Not only does the English translation `as with a woman` not accurately apply to love-making between two men (gay men have sex with other men as with a man, to be crude)

    That was my point. I thought I made it clearly enough.

    The Hebrew passage actually references `a woman`s bed`

    That is one *interpretation*. The Hebrew is less than clear.

    The two leviticus passages really are about a form of adultery - married men cheating on their wives by having sex with fertility cult priests.

    Again, an *interpretion* of verses without a clear meaning.

    Incidentally, are you trying to drive people into taking a hard line against homosexuality so you can continue to have a big fight? You are likely to have that effect.

    ferrari91169 is like a floating voter in an election. The most productive course of action is persuasion, not attack. That tends to drive floating voters towards the other si
  108. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:38 pm
    The idea that homosexuality is a choice doesn`t really make any sense.

    It`s certainly been around at least as long as recorded history and probably way back to our pre-human ancestors.

    In many times and places, homosexual activity was illegal. Being caught doing it would ruin your social status, might get you jailed, might get you killed. So why would anyone choose it in those times and places? It`s not like, for example, illegal drug use. That has the immediate advantage of getting you high, so some people choose it.

    If homosexuality was a choice, it would only exist in times and places where it was at least legal and somewhat tolerated.
  109. Profile photo of lerie
    lerie Female 18-29
    1265 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:40 pm
    I`m a pagan. My gods don`t really care. I don`t understand why any god would care about who you sleep with.
  110. Profile photo of tom-brady12
    tom-brady12 Male 13-17
    295 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:41 pm
    Awesome, another post that will incite a riot in the comment section!
  111. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:46 pm
    If you`re brought up being told you`re supposed to be with a man, you`re probably going to want to be with a man, and have urges towards men because you believe that`s how it should be.

    If you believe that, how do you explain the fact that quite a few people are bi- or homosexual even when they are strongly conditioned every day of their lives that heterosexuality is how it should be?

    Did you intend to compare homosexuality between men with rape? Or did you just choose an incredibly bad example?
  112. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:47 pm
    @Angillion,

    I`ll admit, there`s some great points showing that homosexuality may NOT be a choice, and that you may be born like that, but there`s also different points on why it IS a choice.

    I`m not really sure what I agree with yet. On one hand, maybe it`s confusion that drives someone to be gay, or growing up without a father and/or mother. For instance, maybe if you grow up without a mother, you become dependent on a male companion and thus you choose to be gay.

    I`m not saying it`s a choice as in you actually wake up one day and say "I think I wanna be gay"...I feel it just kind of develops in you while you grow. Like, it`s a CHOICE, but it`s not necessarily your fault and can be attributed to your surroundings and how you`re raised.

    In that essence, maybe it isn`t the persons fault they are gay, and they didn`t choose to be, they just came out they way because of how they were raised...see what I`m saying.
  113. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:49 pm
    Stop quoting Leviticus for what Jesus said - that`s Old Testament, and Big J was New Testament, thousands of years later.

    - Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
    - The Jewish prophets said nothing about homosexuality.
    - Only six or seven of the Bible`s one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way
  114. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:51 pm
    @Angillion, (cont)

    Basically, what I`m saying, is they AREN`T actually born gay, but the choices of others CAN effect them without them realizing it. And different things (like upbringing) can have effects on the way your mind thinks.

    Kind of like females that ALWAYS have a boyfriend. And once they break up they immediately get a new one. It`s a psychological thing where they THINK they always need a boyfriend.

    So, in a way, I`m saying maybe it`s like that. You know...it`s not their fault, it`s just the way their mind works because of things that have happened in their life. (Please note I AM NOT calling it a defect!)

    Really I`m unsure...like I said before...but hopefully it will become more clear to me in the future.

    And I`m not really sure how I feel as far as it being a sin either, as I`ve said earlier.

    I do know if there is a "gay" gene and it`s ever identified to ACTUALLY exist then I would change my stance.
  115. Profile photo of intrigid
    intrigid Male 18-29
    914 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:52 pm
    @ferrari

    You`re a drating moron. Let me tell you a story. I was homeschooled and had little to no social contact with people my age until college. When I was young (~8), I had a girlfriend (1 year older) that proposed that we have sex (something she recently learned about). When I told my mom about this, she freaked out and demanded that I cut off all contact with this girl. This had a profound effect on me. From that point on, I grew up believing that it was wrong to want to touch/feel/kiss a girl. It somehow got into my head that these were feelings that were "perverted" and should be suppressed. Yet, through all of this and into my teen years, I couldn`t stop thinking and fantasizing about girls and their bodies. When I first saw porn on the internet, pictures of girls would get me hard. Pictures of guys wouldn`t. This is not a choice. This is a biological reaction caused by fixed parameters in the brain.

    To summarize, you`re wrong, and your lazy opinion
  116. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:53 pm
    @Angillion, (Cont.)

    As if that were the case, I would have to believe that God cannot see it as a sin, if he himself is the sole reason it exists. If he added it to our genetics, it would be hypocritical to call it a sin.

    Until then, like I said, I`m not 100% either way on what I believe, it`s really more of a tossup at the moment.
  117. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:53 pm
    I think the best comparison at the moment is which hand a person favours. Most people are right-handed. Some people are left-handed. Some people are ambidestrous, to varying degrees. Nobody knows why and it`s not important. Finding out why would be interesting for the sake of gaining new knowledge, but it isn`t important knowledge.

    Although I`d argue that which hand a person favours is more important than whether they`re hetero, homo or bi. Which hand a person favours is genuinely relevant in many aspects of product design, whereas whether a person is bi, homo or hetero is irrelevant unless you want them as a lover or sex partner.
  118. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:57 pm
    @intrigid,

    Okay, so you had ONE time in your life where you feel something had a "profound" effect on you. Good for you, but this doesn`t dispute my point at all. When I talk psychological, I mean something YOU aren`t even aware of. Obviously this didn`t have that big of an effect on you.

    Also, I`m talking about being exposed to something for your entire childhood. Not one instance where your Mom freaked out and you got a little scared.

    Also, what does that have to do with homosexuality. Had you honestly been "profoundly effected" by this, it seems more so that you would find it perverted to have feelings towards males or females.

    If there wasn`t something else there to strengthen the thought that it`d be okay with males, then it basically could`ve made you think that sex in general was bad.
  119. Profile photo of jamesuyt
    jamesuyt Male 13-17
    680 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 5:59 pm
    Don`t *all* Pro-Gay protesters make a good point?

    Just sayin`.
  120. Profile photo of skaterboy17
    skaterboy17 Male 18-29
    296 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 6:01 pm
    For anyone who takes the supposedly anti-gay quotes from Leviticus seriously, if you`re going to do that, don`t bother cutting your hair, or eating lobster. It`s a sin. Oh, also, feel free to enslave people for your convenience.

    "For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)

    "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)

    "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

    "They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination." (Leviticus 11
  121. Profile photo of skaterboy17
    skaterboy17 Male 18-29
    296 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 6:02 pm
    (Leviticus 11:11)
  122. Profile photo of MacCanuck
    MacCanuck Male 18-29
    56 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 6:24 pm
    @ferrari: So you`re saying that whatever turns folk gay happens at a super-secret level so deep in the subconscious that there is no way to know that it`s happened,and yet you,ferrari, have some secret knowledge that makes you certain that subconscious shenanigans are in fact at work. What`s that remind you of? Because it reminds me a lot of an invisible, intangible yet omnipotent and totally non-fictional being who profoundly influences everything that happens in the universe but cannot be proven to exist and who still commands the loyalty of people who claim to know his mind. I haven`t read all of your comments so I don`t know if you`re a Christer, but I wanted to point out that your framework is pretty fecal
  123. Profile photo of ferrari91169
    ferrari91169 Male 18-29
    208 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 6:43 pm
    @MacCanuck,

    I`m not saying that. I`m just saying that there could be something psychological to attribute to what makes someone gay.
  124. Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3278 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 6:51 pm
    Homosexuality is an acquired taste. Heterosexuality is an acquired taste. Horniness just is.

    You aren`t born with a sexual brain map. This gets formed around the time you learn that there are parts of you worth self stimulating. You also start learning that other people stimulate with each other. Homosexuals have just been sent non-population inducing signals. You can`t unlearn that, anymore than I could stop getting aroused by women`s hips. You can`t put the genie back in the bottle for Christ`s sake!
  125. Profile photo of MacCanuck
    MacCanuck Male 18-29
    56 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    @ferrari: I guess what I object to is the frustratingly nebulous and untestable nature of your theory. How do you point to one or two events in a person`s life and decide that those are the ones responsible for sexual orientation? Because you`ve posited that the psychological mechanisms at work are unobservable even to the person in question, there`s no way to verify anything. Unsubstantiated and unprovable assertions get my goat.
  126. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:06 pm
    Okay seriously... Sodom and Gomorrah peeps, this is ridiculous. Have any of you actually read the story, or are you just regurgitating what your pastor of Protestant theology has crammed down your throat?

    The "homosexuality" of S&G was really a gangbang. For starters, that`s quite different than consentual homosexual sex in a committed relationship, even the most anti-gay person out there has to admit that.

    Secondly, to try to persuade the townspeople from gangbanging the angelic visitors, Lot offered them his daughters instead!!! So, Lot had a serious problem with these guys raping men, but had no problem at all with them raping his daughters???

    What happened at the end of the story? God couldn`t find enough righteous people there and destroyed the cities - except for Lot and his family. Lot was called righteous by God. The very same Lot who told strangers to gangbang his daughters.

    Can we really base our morality on a book that says
  127. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:07 pm
    Okay I guess my post got cut off, even though it said 100 characters. Well the last line should have read "Can we really base our morality on a book that says Lot is the only good person in town? WTF!?!?!?"
  128. Profile photo of Ruffiana
    Ruffiana Male 30-39
    506 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:11 pm
    Technically, Jesus is God. He had plenty to say about homosexuality in The Bible.

    But believe it or not, everyone against the idea of `gay marriage` is not a bible-thumping Christian.
  129. Profile photo of MacCanuck
    MacCanuck Male 18-29
    56 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:13 pm
    @Fala: Hey, don`t forget that Lot and his daughters later got it on all incestuous-like. Sure they got him drunk first, but really? A real stand up fellow
  130. Profile photo of cuchulainn
    cuchulainn Male 30-39
    138 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:15 pm
    @FaLa620

    Go read a book sometime. The issue of Sodom & Gomorrah has nothing to do with homosexuality - that`s a mistranslation, perpetuated by the ignorant conservative Christian right, who care about hating homosexuals AND which of the teletubbies might be gay. The violation of God`s Law that was the sin of the cities was the abuse of the weak by the powerful - a theme directed at the post-Exilic Jews that had lost their place in the promised land because of that same sin.
  131. Profile photo of MacCanuck
    MacCanuck Male 18-29
    56 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:27 pm
    Uh oh, everyone! Cuchulainn seems to be suggesting that the meaning behind the words set down in a badly-translated, heavily-edited book written a couple thousand years ago may now be misinterpreted by readers with an agenda! Maybe...maybe we shouldn`t use that outdated, steaming mound (the Bible) as a guideline for life. Maybe I don`t HAVE to wear tassels on the four corners of my garments if I don`t want to (see Numbers 15:38)
  132. Profile photo of thelonious
    thelonious Male 40-49
    3278 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:35 pm
    This thread is officially licentious
  133. Profile photo of ilfg
    ilfg Male 18-29
    337 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:46 pm
    @Ruffiana

    Jesus != God.
    That was actually decided by a bunch of folks back in Constantinople by VOTE.
  134. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 7:59 pm
    > cuchulainn
    > The issue of Sodom & Gomorrah has nothing to do with homosexuality - that`s a mistranslation

    What the drat are you talking about!? Where the drat do you think the word `sodomy`, ie taking it in the ass, comes from!?? From the city of Sodom, where the men were known for exactly that, and which the Bible specifically states was a city where the men did it with men! Go read your frakkin Bible before crying `mistranslation`!
  135. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 8:08 pm
    vv Lad`s a Preacher, Lionhart... I`m sure he knows his Bible (and from Ireland like me to boot, as far as I know). Which you`re probably thinking explains a lot! ;-)
  136. Profile photo of ElSombrero
    ElSombrero Male 13-17
    716 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 8:22 pm
    @Ruffiana

    Jesus != God.
    That was actually decided by a bunch of folks back in Constantinople by VOTE.
    ----------------------

    Wrong.

    1. It was Nicea. In Italy.

    2. The church had to decide how to portray Jesus. Not necessarily what he was.

    Whatever the church decided can be found in something called the "Nicene Creed", which is a summary of all the Catholic faith.
  137. Profile photo of Geogypsy
    Geogypsy Female 18-29
    2546 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 8:24 pm
    Hey! The Sodomites didn`t exclusively sodomize men, they sodomized women as well...hence Lot`s logic in handing over his two virgin daughters to them in place the angel strangers disguised as men who dropped by to visit.

    (From my understanding, the term sodomy was used to describe all acts of `sexual depravity` so we can reason that the Sodomites were probably into bestiality and incest among many other strange things of the sort.)
  138. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 8:24 pm
    I can`t remember who it was, but a few years back some female pop singer made the claim that Jesus spoke against homosexuality a lot...it just wasn`t in the Bible. She didn`t reveal how she happened to come by that info.
  139. Profile photo of fattpill
    fattpill Male 30-39
    255 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 8:51 pm
    I agree with the gay. I cannot recall anything Jesus said about Homosexuality. well except that he said, think not that I am come to forsake the law but to fulfill the law. (meaning Old testament law, Leviticus). and in the law it says if a Man lay with another man as he does a woman then he should be killed. (not exact quote) I believe that homosexuality is a sexual perversion like a pedophile. it is a twist in the brain. Like foot fetishes s&m beast all that stuff. It can be denied and Gay men can act like real men and choose not to lye with men. why do you think most gay men have children? as far as we know there aint no booty babies. sorry here comes the flame war
  140. Profile photo of cuchulainn
    cuchulainn Male 30-39
    138 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 9:12 pm
    @fiizok

    Probably the same way all the other religious lunatics do - either make it up, or take something like spongebob or the teletubbies, call it/them gay and then say Jesus told you to say it. And that`s the story of religious extremism.
  141. Profile photo of cuchulainn
    cuchulainn Male 30-39
    138 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 9:13 pm
    Correct on both counts Davy, I`m even from your end (pardon the pun) of the island.

    As you and I have discussed ad-nauseum before Lionhart, the term sodomite comes from the misuse of a concept of by the Church in the middle ages.

    If any of you care to crack open the Bible, you`ll see that the saga of S&G ties in with the narrative of Abram & Sarai (Abraham and Sarah), and the abuse by Abraham, of the weak slave Hagar and her son Ishmael. There are throw backs to the myth of Noah, the Creation narratives, but this whole section of Genesis was written by the Yahwist or Eloist source (composed as early as 950 B.C.E. as a dig against a divided Kingdom) and was included as a post-exile dig at the two Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, who consistently failed to follow any command given by God.

    As you so frequently put it, Lion old chap, there`s more to understanding the Bible than blowing the dust off the covers and cracking open a page or two.
  142. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 9:45 pm
    And well met again, cuchulainn old friend. Don`t mind Lionhart too much, he`s a balls-to-the-wall hardcore Calvinist Lutherin, and a Young-Earth Creationist to boot (as much as I love him, I kid you not, and that`s coming from a professional geologist). Anyways, excuse me for talking over your head for a second at fattpill...

    I believe that homosexuality is a sexual perversion like a pedophile. it is a twist in the brain. Like foot fetishes s&m beast all that stuff.
    fattpill, we`re all about the free speech and all that. Hell, it`s what IAB is all about. However, on a human level, it all boils down to the (entirely personal) opinions of the Moderators on what is acceptable freedom of speech and what is hate-speech. And I`m calling you out on this one, that directly equating consenting homosexuals with pedophiles is dancing on the f*cking fault-line, in my interpretation of what IAB is about. You be careful, bub. I`m serious about that.
  143. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 9:54 pm
    @skaterboy17:

    Leviticus 19:33 " `When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God."

    seems kind of counterproductive to take in aliens as slaves but then treat them as your neighbor and love them as yourself. then again, vanity is a cardinal sin, yet the bible is constantly telling you to love yourself (or rather love your neighbor as you would yourself).

    @elsombrero, good to know about the nicene creed, I always wondered...

    as for the S&G debate, I posted this but its on page 6 (1st page of comments):

    ezekial 16:48-50

    "Sodom never did what you and your daughters have done." He explains that the sin of Sodom was that "She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did de
  144. Profile photo of IkeRay
    IkeRay Male 18-29
    2705 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 9:58 pm
    ezekial 16:48-50

    "Sodom never did what and your daughters have done." He explains that the sin of Sodom was that "She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    dang limit not being the limit because of "special characters"!

    anyways, that quote backs up cuchuliann about Abraham and the slave.
  145. Profile photo of sgrin27
    sgrin27 Male 18-29
    77 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:02 pm
    Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:26-27, Jude 1:7
  146. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:09 pm
    But believe it or not, everyone against the idea of `gay marriage` is not a bible-thumping Christian.

    Quite true, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Jainism, & Zoroastrianism all have rules against homosexuality. Taoists believe in yin and yang, So 2 yins or 2 yangs is considered to be `out of balance`.
  147. Profile photo of axeman929
    axeman929 Male 30-39
    195 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:24 pm
    Oh, Jesus spoke clearly about marriage. Can be no mistaking it.
  148. Profile photo of axeman929
    axeman929 Male 30-39
    195 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:37 pm
    Jesus was clear that marriage between a man and woman. And that all sex outside of marriage was sin. No worse no better than any other sin. So ya when that hot little blonde walks by I have a problem. Another thing you may not be thinking about is Abraham had no wedding ceremony. He just took her into his tent and nailed her,and that was that. So how many wives do you all have?
  149. Profile photo of Aretsuku-kun
    Aretsuku-kun Male 13-17
    309 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:44 pm
    Stop using Jesus as an excuse for being a narrow minded bigot. IF you think people will go to hell for what they`re doing, fine. It doesn`t concern you.
  150. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:46 pm
    Quite true, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Jainism, & Zoroastrianism all have rules against homosexuality. Taoists believe in yin and yang
    Crakr, all of which are stone age to bronze age sky-mumbling book-founded religions, full of their own zealousy. It`s the 21st Century, mate.

    Question for you Crackr: Which religion is right? I mean, you religious types can all agree that Homos Are Bad, but which religious gang are getting into heaven? Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Jainism, & Zoroastrians and Taoists can`t all get in. At least that`s not what I was taught in Bible Class.

    Are you suggesting that the only uniting factor between all world religions is their unified abhorrence of homosexuals? Cause, if so, I`m horrified even more now than I already was.
  151. Profile photo of snowsthename
    snowsthename Male 40-49
    114 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:54 pm
    People are obsessive about homosexuality. Have a read about what it says about adultery and also eating shell fish. People seem to have forgotten about that!
  152. Profile photo of fiizok
    fiizok Male 40-49
    591 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 10:55 pm
    Quite right, snowsthename!

    http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

  153. Profile photo of jdmexsk8er
    jdmexsk8er Male 18-29
    3 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 11:04 pm
    can we stop talking about homos on iab. it makes me sick already. You`re just giving them more attention and it makes them happy.
  154. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 11:05 pm
    @cuchulainn - I`m not sure why you`re telling me to go read a book, or why you`re telling me S&G has nothing to do with homosexuality. As far as I can tell, we`re both fairly close with our thinking, maybe you misread my post? I`m speaking against people who claim that homosexuality is what S&G is about.

    I can clearly see that it has nothing to do with it, and the larger context of what I`m saying is that the Bible is a book of very questionable morality, and that it is pretty stupid to base our ideas about morality on what it says. When the best guy in the city is Lot, and God just goes on and on about how great he is, I think we`re on pretty shaky ground, and I for one am not going to base my beliefs of right and wrong on anything that comes out of a book like that.

    @MacCanuck - I was going to put something about the whole drunken incest thing in my first post, but I ran out of room. Is it just me, or are these "great men of the Bible" kinda f`ed
  155. Profile photo of Aretsuku-kun
    Aretsuku-kun Male 13-17
    309 posts
    April 9, 2010 at 11:06 pm
    @jdmexsk8ter: Get out troll, we don`t want you here.
  156. Profile photo of radmikey
    radmikey Male 18-29
    61 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 12:16 am
    @Heureux

    Lay off the crack buddy (Pun is DEFINITELY intended!), I dont think anyone wants to log on to IAB just to read your novels...
  157. Profile photo of SaiyanRocker
    SaiyanRocker Male 18-29
    101 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 12:21 am
    I-A-B does this on purpose...
  158. Profile photo of RotBottom
    RotBottom Male 18-29
    100 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 12:22 am
    Yeah you`re full of win - spending your time with that. Also, is that the Weasel? Paulie Shore?
  159. Profile photo of RotBottom
    RotBottom Male 18-29
    100 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 12:22 am
    Also, hail Satan, the true hero of the Bible.
  160. Profile photo of bonsushi
    bonsushi Male 18-29
    204 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 12:30 am
    @Heureux is an ignorant troll.

    You completely ruined it when you said that gay men have larger penises than straight men.

    Like that`s some sort of scientific fact.
  161. Profile photo of davymid
    davymid Male 30-39
    12151 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 1:01 am
    I-A-B does this on purpose...
    Sure we do. We`re not even hiding it. It relieves boredom, does it not? Which is kinda the mission...
  162. Profile photo of shneeblefish
    shneeblefish Male 18-29
    509 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 1:43 am
    "Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22, Romans 1:26-27, Jude 1:7"

    the picture quite clearly says "JESUS" said nothing about gay marriage. None of these are jesus` words... If you`re going to quote scripture then make sure its relevant!
  163. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 3:51 am
    Question for you Crackr: Which religion is right?

    I think you already know I`m a Christian, And it wouldn`t make sense to place odds against one`s own religion would it ?

    Are you suggesting that the only uniting factor between all world religions is their unified abhorrence of homosexuals?

    No, Most of them agree on several points but differ in the details, rituals, prophets, punishments, etc..
  164. Profile photo of lovelylady27
    lovelylady27 Female 13-17
    2 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 3:55 am
    Jesus really didn`t say anything about homosexuality, because Moses already did. Homosexuality is only looked on as a sin if you are doing sexual things outside of marriage. This website seriously pisses me off because all anyone here ever wants to do is make fun of people that actually have enough trust and hope and optimism in the world to have faith in something bigger then themselves, unlike most of the people here. What have christians done but valiently stood up for their beliefs when being attacked by people too arrogant to see past their own ass? This is seriously why I`ve stopped coming to this site because of annoying posts like this. There should really be an end to posts like these because they are NOT funny to ALOT of people.
  165. Profile photo of lovelylady27
    lovelylady27 Female 13-17
    2 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 3:57 am
    And I-A-B, drat y`all. I`m done with this drating atheist legion.
  166. Profile photo of joey7415963
    joey7415963 Male 18-29
    174 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 4:00 am
    Agree with lovelylady27, as someone pointed out a few months ago when all this started, don`t mind a few jokes here and there but when it`s this often it turns into a witch hunt.
  167. Profile photo of CrakrJak
    CrakrJak Male 40-49
    17515 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 4:05 am
    Actually getting pissed off and making rants like that actually gives atheists more ammunition to hate on Christians.

    "Love your enemies", It make them paranoid wondering what you`re up to. ;-)
  168. Profile photo of cheezer
    cheezer Male 18-29
    112 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 4:12 am
    i couldn`t have said it better meself.
  169. Profile photo of Batmanners
    Batmanners Male 18-29
    4007 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 4:31 am
    I-A-B debates.

    Go big or go homo.
  170. Profile photo of GRadde
    GRadde Male 18-29
    2556 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 4:33 am
    >lovely
    I am a Christian too, so I feel (and hope) that my views will be taken seriously by you.

    What is mostly being made fun of here is the misconceptions made by man when deciphering the Bible. It is when people use the Bible for their own, often abusive, goals.

    However, this is not something new to us, it has happened before, not least by Christians who have shaped our history. Some of the things Christians have done haven`t been in valiant defense of their beliefs. Sometimes it is they/us who are too arrogant.

    However, I can agree that sometimes this critizism towards religious hypocrites that are out there spill out over those of us who actually haven`t a personal agenda about our belief.
  171. Profile photo of quaintness
    quaintness Male 13-17
    1086 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 4:59 am
    Jesus didn`t say anything about this topic, but he did demonstrate that the rules and statues of the Old Testament were not so important anymore because the Jewish people had him instead of the Law (700-800 laws to be precise, of religious nature)

    Furthermore I find it is futile to talk about homosexuality from a religious perspective to a non believer; to a believer, you`ll have to hammer out the interpretations and rely on theologians to help you in those regards.
  172. Profile photo of moojuiceman
    moojuiceman Male 18-29
    924 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 5:30 am
    i envy people like lionhart who can remember stuff from the bible...i tried reading it once and skipped to the end, ruined it for me completely.

    On a lighter note, Life of Brian anyone? thats always a good pro vs anti christian thing
  173. Profile photo of Lionhart2
    Lionhart2 Male 40-49
    8309 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 6:31 am
    > moojuiceman
    > people who can remember stuff from the bible...i tried reading it once and skipped to the end, ruined it for me completely

    Well sure it would... Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the middle of a garden in Genesis, Tree of Life in the middle of a garden in Revelation... you missed the entire plot!

    > Life of Brian

    Should be Required Viewing for every Christian. Teaches how to put all the Christian stuff into perspective without snorting it and thinking that YOU are God. That and `Dogma` should both be seen.
  174. Profile photo of Batmanners
    Batmanners Male 18-29
    4007 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 6:56 am
    "That and `Dogma` should both be seen."

    I agree with Dogma being seen, but to not be offended by the fictional stuff contained within the movie. Fictional being the poop demon. Although Alanis Morisette`s voice making people head blow up is real.

    All religions are wrong and full of themselves. What`s important is to lead good lives, and to thank your respective deity for the things that are good in your life.

    Should you be an Atheist, much like myself, do what a lot of people ought to, practice what you preach: KEEP IT TO YOURSELF! THIS GOES FOR YOU TOO RICHARD DAWKINS!
  175. Profile photo of shneeblefish
    shneeblefish Male 18-29
    509 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 7:13 am
    "THIS GOES FOR YOU TOO RICHARD DAWKINS!"

    Richard Dawkins: "what if you`re wrong?"
    translation: If it`s not an apple, it`s a banana...
  176. Profile photo of shneeblefish
    shneeblefish Male 18-29
    509 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 7:21 am
    "Question for you Crackr: Which religion is right?"
    I know I`m not Crackr but like him, I`m a Christian too.
    personally I`d like to believe that we`re tight, but we don`t know FOR SURE until we die. None of us do, atheists or not. And therein lies the point of all religion: faith in something unseen or unknown.

    And yes, I am a VERY liberal Christian. Not pro- or con-gay, don`t believe most of the genesis story etc...
  177. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 8:01 am
    can we stop talking about homos on iab. it makes me sick already. You`re just giving them more attention and it makes them happy.


    what are you talking about?! are you trying to say that gays are such bad people that we shouldnt even acknowledge them as humans? treat them like terrorists as say that if we talk about what they are doing will only satisfy them? this is pure ignorance and its what makes this country horrible. gays are equal learn it, live it
  178. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 8:06 am
    i want to ask everyone that is anti-gay one more question.

    if you really believe for whatever reason that being gay is a choice, why do you think some people would CHOOSE to be gay and be hated by half of the population? dont you think that if it was their choice they would choose to be straight and avoid the ridicule?

    this should make it clear and simple to all those anti-gays

    stop being ignorant, learn to love your fellow human
  179. Profile photo of Hiromi
    Hiromi Female 18-29
    1149 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 8:10 am
    Winwinwinwinwinnnnnnnn!

    This guy freaking wins.
  180. Profile photo of IQover
    IQover Male 13-17
    1043 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 8:50 am
    HIROMI IS DRATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTING RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!
  181. Profile photo of ukulelemike
    ukulelemike Male 40-49
    129 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 9:41 am
    zmeace-I don`t know. But here`s a thought: why would someone choose to be a Christian and be hated but 95% of the population? Gays do it because they love flesh, Christians do it because they love the Lord that saved them.
    And Jesus said nothing specifically against homosexuality because He came not to judge, but to save, to die a ransom for ALL sin, "the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world." We are ALL sinners before Him, regardless of our sin, and in need of salvation. That some choose to reject that because it interferes with their lifestyle doesn`t change the fact.
  182. Profile photo of alchemist18
    alchemist18 Female 13-17
    357 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 9:46 am
    ha! I hate it when people say that Jesus and the bible said all this and that about gays...this is so true and such a win.
  183. Profile photo of CreepyShanny
    CreepyShanny Female 18-29
    152 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 10:24 am
    Very Clever...^.^




    that`s a damn fine jacket too!
  184. Profile photo of strickt
    strickt Male 18-29
    73 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 11:03 am
    lol its only the other 9/10`s of the bible that condemn it...
  185. Profile photo of madest
    madest Male 40-49
    7379 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 11:07 am
    "Christians do it because they love the Lord that saved them."
    -------------
    More Christian mumbo jumbo that means absolutely nothing. Saved from what exactly? Death? Hell? How can a newborn be a sinner? Such a ridiculously vapid viewpoint. Science is so much more interesting than this meaningless fairy tale.
  186. Profile photo of paddyt07
    paddyt07 Male 18-29
    1067 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 11:25 am
    This made me laugh bad :D
    I love how much smarter pro-gay protesters are than anti-gays.
  187. Profile photo of youngdz79
    youngdz79 Male 30-39
    268 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 11:48 am
    "Christians do it because they love the Lord that saved them."
    -------------
    More Christian mumbo jumbo that means absolutely nothing. Saved from what exactly? Death? Hell?


    naw the are being saved from Darth Vader and the Emipre.

    LOL
  188. Profile photo of ManicWolf
    ManicWolf Female 18-29
    62 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 12:04 pm
    Ah, the irrationality of humans. That even in this day and age we can get so worked up about two people who love each other - and are harming no-one - wanting to celebrate that love. Up with hate and down with love!

    But yeah, great sign. It`s amazing how often religious people seem to get Jesus and the Bible mixed up. They really need to do their homework.
  189. Profile photo of Vindictive
    Vindictive Female 18-29
    1077 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 12:55 pm
    quite honestly, if attacking people who wish to oppress a group and strip them of their rights is a `witch hunt` then hand me a torch and pitchfork.
  190. Profile photo of bigbangbilly
    bigbangbilly Male 13-17
    698 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 1:05 pm
    what do you mean " ." do yuou realy need to bring religion to a pro gay mariage protest besides it seems that the majority that is against gay mariage uses religion as an exscuse what is the harm with gay mariage
    i am against abortion because of life
    i am not gay but i support gay mariage because it is liberty and possibly The Pursuit of Happiness
    so you get"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
  191. Profile photo of AnImbroglio
    AnImbroglio Male 30-39
    838 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 1:37 pm
    ermm... ok... so Jesus didn`t actually say something about homosexuality directly, but the bible says plenty... And relying on all christians to be dumber than atheists is arguably one of the dumbest tactics I can think of.
  192. Profile photo of monktoast
    monktoast Male 18-29
    263 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 1:43 pm
    arguement from silence isn`t an arguement at all
  193. Profile photo of XtifnerX
    XtifnerX Female 13-17
    131 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 2:02 pm
    i like this
  194. Profile photo of genericuser
    genericuser Female 18-29
    317 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 2:16 pm
    yes, because the only reason someone would be against homosexuality is because they follow Jesus. Flawless logic.
  195. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 2:29 pm
    zmeace-I don`t know. But here`s a thought: why would someone choose to be a Christian and be hated but 95% of the population? Gays do it because they love flesh, Christians do it because they love the Lord that saved them.
    And Jesus said nothing specifically against homosexuality because He came not to judge, but to save, to die a ransom for ALL sin, "the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world." We are ALL sinners before Him, regardless of our sin, and in need of salvation. That some choose to reject that because it interferes with their lifestyle doesn`t change the fact.

    im sorry ukulelemike but your argument doesnt make sense. gays choose to be gay because they like flesh? please elaborate i dont understand. dont straight people like flesh? and still i repeat again....how is being gay wrong? is it because a book that has been retranslated so many times supposedly says that its a sin?
    we dont need to be controlled by a book, decide what you wan
  196. Profile photo of zmeace
    zmeace Male 18-29
    807 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 2:29 pm
    sorry i got my words cut off
    i was saying decide what you want to believe and believe it, dont be controlled by a book
  197. Profile photo of lpycb42
    lpycb42 Female 18-29
    84 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 2:32 pm
    "yes, because the only reason someone would be against homosexuality is because they follow Jesus. Flawless logic."

    Sadly a lot of these anti-homosexuality protesters do follow the Bible`s brilliant and totally not non-sensical teachings.
  198. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 2:32 pm
    @ukulelemike - If you really think Christians are hated by 95% of the population you clearly don`t live in the real world. Christianity is the largest religion in the world, and by far the dominant religion in the US. Even if you make the typical evangelical litmus test and weed out all of those who aren`t "Christian" enough, you`re still looking a simple majority of Americans. They might seem more hated on the internet where anyone can have a voice and those who have spent their lives repressed by religion often whine the loudest, but facts are facts, Christianity is in no way a minority, definitely not the 5% minority you want to paint it as. Christians seriously need to stop with the woe-is-me-I`m-so-hated-and-outnumbered act, it`s getting really old.
  199. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    @AnImbroglio - "And relying on all christians to be dumber than atheists is arguably one of the dumbest tactics I can think of. "

    Stick with what works lol. Most Christians are completely ignorant of what their own religion teaches and no very little about the Bible except the handful of verses they were taught in Sunday school to prove their points. Most Christians don`t know some of the odd little details in the Bible, such as the rule against wearing clothes sewn from two kinds of cloth. Most Christians will awkwardly try to make the teachings of Jesus back up their conservative nutjob beliefs, and when liberals and athiests come along and quote scripture that says the opposite they get defensive and say it`s being taken out of context. Most protestant Christians know absolutely nothing about the history of the Church or of the Bible. It`s sad but true, American Christians are usually (but there are exceptions) pretty dumb.
  200. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 2:41 pm
    @shneeblefish - You`re 100% correct there, no one knows for sure. Athiests are just as dumb as Christians, agnosticis is really the only thing that makes any sense.

    And "liberal Christian" eh? Good luck with that. I was one of those once, but pushing against the grain gets old. Christianity is a rather conservative religion grounded in values and ideas of another culture and era. Trying to liberalize it and modernize it works on a very small scale for a very short period of time, but you can only do so much. Most "liberal Christians" either end up abandonning their faith, or heading back towards the conservative mainstream. Been there, done that.
  201. Profile photo of MrsPoods
    MrsPoods Female 18-29
    547 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 3:45 pm
    Agnostics make the most sense? "I don`t know" makes the most sense? No.
  202. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 5:24 pm
    Hey, don`t forget that Lot and his daughters later got it on all incestuous-like. Sure they got him drunk first, but really? A real stand up fellow

    I was going to put something about the whole drunken incest thing in my first post, but I ran out of room. Is it just me, or are these "great men of the Bible" kinda f`ed

    When someone is drugged unconscious and used for sex without their knowledge, let alone consent, is it really reasonable to blame them for it?

    That`s what you`re doing, but do you really mean it?

    Is it just sexism? Would you react differently to a story of two brothers drugging their mother unconscious in order to rape her? Would you blame her for it?

    Genesis 19:33 and 19:35, if anyone cares. Note that it is explicitly stated that both times Lot was so unconscious that he didn`t know what was happening.
  203. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 5:27 pm
    Agnostics make the most sense? "I don`t know" makes the most sense? No.

    It makes the most sense for people who are able to face the fact that they don`t know. It`s better than pretending knowledge in order to avoid admitting ignorance.
  204. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 5:36 pm
    What have christians done but valiently stood up for their beliefs when being attacked by people too arrogant to see past their own ass?

    Are you really so deluded that you think that`s a reasonable question?

    You advocate an ideology that has caused a vast amount of suffering for almost two millenia and you claim none of it happened and you`re all victims.

    How dare you!

    Your blathering about hope, etc, would normally be offensive enough by itself (you`re arguing that only Christians have trust, hope and optimism, etc), but your deceitful grasping after the power of false victimhood blots it out with its glaring offensiveness.
  205. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 5:42 pm
    Jesus didn`t say anything about this topic, but he did demonstrate that the rules and statues of the Old Testament were not so important anymore because the Jewish people had him instead of the Law (700-800 laws to be precise, of religious nature)

    Do you believe that the statement explicitly attributed to Jesus as a direct quote from him in which he states that every one of the old laws must be obeyed absolutely until the end of the world is wrong?

    Matthew 5:18
  206. Profile photo of FrenchFry89
    FrenchFry89 Female 18-29
    50 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 5:48 pm
    This debate has been going on ever since I`ve been old enough to argue. The point that I always make is that these Christians seem to use what the Bible says when it suits them, and only then. They take Leviticus so seriously, and yet the Bible says many other things that have been tossed to the wayside, because they are outdated, or translated into today`s world. It`s only a matter of time before the entire Bible is rewritten to fit today`s world. We now accept many different religions, many different faiths, so how can only one be used as argument? Separation of church and state, friends.
  207. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 7:09 pm
    They take Leviticus so seriously, and yet the Bible says many other things that have been tossed to the wayside, because they are outdated, or translated into today`s world.

    Not even that. They take *some verses* of Leviticus so seriously and toss other verses of Leviticus to the wayside. Quite often the preceeding or following verse to the one that is taken so seriously.
  208. Profile photo of axeman929
    axeman929 Male 30-39
    195 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 10:23 pm
    Jesus followed the old law of the old testament and fulfilled its prophesies. So, ya christians can look to the old testament for guidance. After all it was still the word and law of God. The references to slavery deal with the fact that even slaves through out history are deserving and probably more likely to gain salvation and everlasting life. It is more likely that a camel fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man inherit the kingdom.
  209. Profile photo of louisecstasy
    louisecstasy Male 18-29
    88 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 10:30 pm
    exactly :p
  210. Profile photo of axeman929
    axeman929 Male 30-39
    195 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 10:31 pm
    I am not anti gay, only anti sin. Hate homesexuality no more than my own sin. Homosexuals just seem to like to flaunt their sin. My marriage, as much as I may have a license given me by my state, is ordained and accepted by God. If Homosexuals really even care about God they will search the whole bible themself and see if they find authorization for a marriage between two men or two women. If after searching the whole bible and they still see that the bible is silent on such a marriage, then they shouldnt do it. If God didnt authorize it then dont do it. Clearly sex outside of marriage according to biblical text is sin.











  211. Profile photo of axeman929
    axeman929 Male 30-39
    195 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 10:32 pm
    Where does the bible say newborns are sinners? Jesus lamented that only if we were all like children`
  212. Profile photo of MCFC89
    MCFC89 Male 18-29
    122 posts
    April 10, 2010 at 11:06 pm
    I seriously dont see what the problem is anymore. Catholics have their own gay prostitution rings and yet they wont accept gay marriage? religion in and of itself is corrupt. Get Rid I say. Not just Christianity but the whole lot of them every Religion.

    Believe in God? Good for you! Don`t believe? Good for you too! Want to shove beliefs down others throats and start wars over simple matters? Screw off!
  213. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 12:06 am
    @Angilion - "When someone is drugged unconscious and used for sex without their knowledge, let alone consent, is it really reasonable to blame them for it?

    That`s what you`re doing, but do you really mean it? "

    I`m not blaming Lot for anything. But the Bible does say that he and his family were the only ones good enough to be saved. Yet when I read it, it sure seems that he and his family were a pretty screwed up bunch of people. If I`m blaming anyone, I`m blaming Christianity for advocating a book and belief system that calls screwed up people great and basing a system of morality upon what amounts to a lot of questionable ethics, at best.

    Seriously, my point is this - Let`s say I write a book, and in that book I say it`s wrong to be gay. Also in that book, I say robbing liquor stores and eating babies are sacramental and holy things. Could you really base a system of belief and morals upon what I have said? I guess when it`s God it`s different? :
  214. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 12:08 am
    @axeman929 - " If after searching the whole bible and they still see that the bible is silent on such a marriage, then they shouldnt do it. If God didnt authorize it then dont do it."

    If that`s how you feel, then please leave this website. The Bible is silent on the internet and IAB. God didn`t authorize posting here, so you shouldn`t do it.
  215. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 12:12 am
    @MrsPoods - Agnostics make the most sense? "I don`t know" makes the most sense? No.

    Makes perfect sense to me. No one can prove there is a god, no one can disprove there is a god. Religion, faith, interpretation, etc, at best it`s just educated guessing. No one knows anything for sure. I can no more prove you wrong than you can prove me wrong. So why claim that you know something you don`t?

    It`s fine to have faith, but the Bible says faith is the evidence of things UNSEEN. If you knew all the answers, you wouldn`t have faith. So feel free to believe one way or another, but saying your way is correct is flawed and illogical thinking. Saying "I believe" is quite alright, saying "I know" makes no sense.
  216. Profile photo of drewrew
    drewrew Male 18-29
    68 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 5:27 am
    @FaLa620

    <3
  217. Profile photo of deeplick
    deeplick Male 18-29
    234 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 9:27 am
    FaLa620 you know nothing about the bible, it`s proof is not of things unforeseen but of things that happen. Biggest prove that my god is real, is the predictions made in the bible that happened AFTER it was written and are still happening to this day. Hard to dismiss something that was predicted to happen and has happened as fake.

    Scientist and atheist would rather dismiss god and feed you their "ideas" about how we evolved from space rocks and how UFO men brought cells to earth. Then to acknowledge the fact that a book has proved itself for thousands of years and still does so today. They think if they don`t believe in a god they won`t have to pay for their sins, and how wrong they are, and their biggest sin is spreading their filth and lies that its all just fake and made up.
  218. Profile photo of Yaezakura
    Yaezakura Female 18-29
    385 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 9:46 am
    FaLa620 you know nothing about the bible, it`s proof is not of things unforeseen but of things that happen. Biggest prove that my god is real, is the predictions made in the bible that happened AFTER it was written and are still happening to this day. Hard to dismiss something that was predicted to happen and has happened as fake.

    When your predictions are vague enough, it`s hard to be wrong. For instance, if I predict the future will be full of strife and war, I`m basically guaranteed to be correct. If I predict that atrocities will continue to be carried out in the name of God, I`m pretty much guaranteed to be correct.

    The "predictions" of the Bible are no different than the "predictions" of modern psychics. They are simply so vague that they essentially HAVE to be true at some point.
  219. Profile photo of apeirophobia
    apeirophobia Female 18-29
    169 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    The only gays that Christians need to worry about are gay Christians. Those are the people who need to examine closely what their faith decrees. But for all of the non-Christian gays out there, the Bible is no argument at all - it has no bearing. You can only use the Bible as a legitimate debate point if everyone involved follows its word.
  220. Profile photo of mamba
    mamba Male 18-29
    628 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 3:14 pm
    jesus said love your neighbour, by that reosoning gay people are those that have only male neighbours. on that note christians, consider the neibours when buying a house
  221. Profile photo of ukulelemike
    ukulelemike Male 40-49
    129 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 3:42 pm
    @ FaLa620: If by "Christian enough", you mean, `by what the Bible says is Christian", then, throwing out groups like Mormons, JW`s, and Catholics, you lose most of those who consider themselves `Christian` because their standard of Christianity is not judged by the Bible, but by some external standards. So, yeah, 95%. But hey, it isn`t about "woe is me"-my sadness is knowing so many reject the simple gospel of Jesus Christ unto salvation, and replace it with `I got my own beliefs" or, "I`d rather have sex/do drugs/drink booze/or whatever pleases ME, than accept salvation." rather, it tends to be groups like the homosexuals who spend all their time crying over acceptance. I don`t need anyone to accept my way to make me happy-I would just like to see more saved, with hope for eternal life, and not throwing it away for this momentary life, which is present for a moment and then, like a vapor, gone forever. I want to see everyone in heaven. Is that s
  222. Profile photo of Thorbjorn
    Thorbjorn Male 18-29
    23 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    deeplick

    Space rocks? UFO men? I hope to God you are kidding, otherwise I will just assume you have just about no education. No, no. you`ve got to be kidding
  223. Profile photo of Angilion
    Angilion Male 40-49
    12390 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 5:35 pm
    Scientist and atheist would rather dismiss god and feed you their "ideas" about how we evolved from space rocks and how UFO men brought cells to earth.

    Do you really think that`s an accurate description? I`m genuinely curious.

    Also, feel free to provide an example of a detailed prophecy from the Christian bible that came true *and which was written before the event happened*.

    Go on.

    Just one.

    You think there are a huge number of them. Surely you can provide one nice, clear example?

    Don`t bother with the usual vague generalities with no dates and a multitude of interpretations that can be retroactively made into "prophecies" of all sorts of events after they happened.

    On a tangent, perhaps you`d like to explain why you think no-one has free will. If the future is fixed, that violates free will. It`s an important consequence of your beliefs, so you must have thought about it...or not tho
  224. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 7:08 pm
    @deeplick - "FaLa620 you know nothing about the bible, it`s proof is not of things unforeseen but of things that happen."

    On the contrary, I`m thinking it`s you who knows nothing about the Bible, seeing as how what I said was a direct quote from scripture and you`re trying tell me that`s not what faith is. Hebrews 11:1 bro.

    Since this is something so obvious that I missed it, please tell me some of these predictions in the Bible that have come true, I`d love to hear them.
  225. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 7:15 pm
    @ukulelemike - By "Christian enough" I mean exactly what I said. Conservative fundamentalist protestant groups are so quick to dismiss anyone who believes even slightly different than them, so to them these people don`t count as "real" Christians. Calvinists think Arminians aren`t Christian enough, charismatics think non-tongue-speakers aren`t Christian enough, conservative Christians think liberal Christians aren`t Christian enough, etc etc etc. Sure we can include fringe groupls like Mormons and JW`s but there`s really no need, mainstream protestants have done a pretty good job of narrowing down the list to only their particular group. Ever wonder why there`s over 20,000 protestant denominations in the US alone? Ever notice how the church next door thinks the church down the street is full of fake Christians?

    I don`t know what church you go to, but chances are you agree on the same fundamentals as 90% of American protestants, so therefore you`re not in th
  226. Profile photo of FaLa620
    FaLa620 Male 30-39
    80 posts
    April 11, 2010 at 7:21 pm
    1000 characters max, yet I keep getting cut off well before then, odd. The last word of my post should have been "minority".

    I guess now I have more room and can further elaborate. People who self identify as Christian are the majority in America. If we`re going to play the "who is Christian enough?" game, then we either say that only the people in Denomination X are Christian enough, or that anyone who agrees on the basic fundamentals of what we consider Christian doctrine is. If we go with choice A, then you`re a right wing nut job and definitely in the minority. But most Christians would go with choice B and say that anyone who believes in Jesus as their savior is okay and the rest is just details. In that case, you`re in the majority of Americans.
  227. Profile photo of Valonqar
    Valonqar Male 13-17
    116 posts
    April 12, 2010 at 5:06 am
    Yep, I think we all saw this coming. Another religious debate.
  228. Profile photo of MrRubik
    MrRubik Male 13-17
    68 posts
    April 16, 2010 at 7:14 am
    FaLa620:
    I look up to you.

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